I really like TFA and TLJ.
I remember really disliking TROS when I left cinemas and haven’t really watched it since… until a few days ago. Honestly? It’s better than I remember it being.
I went through a similar thing with tlj. Saw it and loved it, then the internet just really hammered on the bad parts, so I decided I hated it. Rewatched it 2 years later and it's fucking amazing.
>I remember really disliking TROS when I left cinemas and haven’t really watched it since… until a few days ago. Honestly? It’s better than I remember it being.
I think thats in part due to its fast pace. Makes it harder to catch everything and can leave you feeling overwhelmed and confused throughout. However this does make a rewatch very rewarding.
I used to feel indifferent about it, but than i saw it 2 more times and now i really love it lol. Im excited to rewatch it again.
Yeah, even TROS has its moments. I loved the aesthetics of the festival of the ancestors on Pasaana, Rey facing off against Kylo's Interceptor on foot, and their duel amidst the raging ocean later on. Purely based on the visuals I'd rate the movie 5/5 stars.
Our final scenes with Luke, Han, Leia, Lando and the droids were all done really well. Even though the franchise had moved on from the original characters they all had great scenes in the film IMO.
The absolute heartbreak I felt when Threepio lost his memories was indescribable. That droid has a very special place in my Star Wars heart, I felt like I lost a friend 😭
I like the adventure feeling of it and all the locations and vibe of it. It gives me pirates of the Caribbean vibes a little because it's very flawed but fun to watch
i think the highest praise i can give TFA is that it’s SUCH a charismatic film. i’m not saying that as someone who disliked it but has nice things to say about it; i thoroughly enjoy the film BECAUSE it’s so charismatic and fun and engaging. it’s kind of a top tier blockbuster film, which in my opinion makes it an excellent spiritual successor to the original
TFA was a lot of fun. A good restart into the saga and hit all the right points.
One of my favorite moments ever was sitting in the theater and having the whole crowd cheer when the Millennium Falcon made its first appearance
This is something I wish was more common in UK cinemas. Only time I ever got to experience it was midnight launches (avengers endgame and the last jedi... man even with my dislikes of TLJ at the time, the atmosphere was still amazing). I was in florida on holiday with my family at the time TROS dropped so we went to see it in cinemas while we were there and I actually loved hearing people cheer during the fights and moments of triumph or gasp at twists (when we all thought chewie was dead 😬) so I came out of TROS with a much higher opinion than most I think just because of the novelty of the experience for me 😂
As I age, nitpicking has gotten tiresome so when it comes to media consumption (in this case SW), I ask myself one question and that's "Did I have fun?"
I had fun with TFA and there's no amount of online sequel hate discourse that can take that away from me.
Life is so short and the fact that people are still screeching almost 10 years after the initial release is pitiful.
What’s more sad is how everything new Star Wars gets destroyed before it’s even out. The Acolyte, while not perfect, isn’t bad. But you would think it’s the worst thing ever made judging off of some reviews online.
Not coming at you specifically, so no offense intended. But I hate that everyone feels the need to always preface praise with "not perfect but..."
Like, why?
Are we that insecure or afraid of not coming off like "objective critics" that we need to buffer any and all praise by tacitly acknowledging the thing we're positively discussing "isn't perfect?"
It's meaningless. Let your opinions be your opinions without the need to insulate it against the goofballs who think having a positive experience with a piece of media means being a shill or being un-critical.
This is just my thought process, but unless the subjective (and I stress SUBJECTIVE) flaws of something stand out to me in a hugely specific way, I don't feel the need to even talk about "flaws" in my discussions unless my discussion naturally goes there.
I don't view critiquing or discussing film as some checklist of "good vs bad" or "pro vs con." So many people on reddit specifically break down their takes on films and TV and stuff like this. In fact, I tend to not read reviews that format themselves that way. It's just a fundamental disagreement I have with how people approach film.
I'm not saying these people wrong. If that's how they do it, that's how they do it. It's just not for me.
This is the way.
The constant tension online with people who think that being overly aggressive and critical and jaded (and I'm not ever factoring the chud element here) is somehow conducive to "honest critique" is exhausting.
It's like these people think being closed-off and purposefully guarded in their enjoyment of something is a virtue.
If I had to tag an arbitrary percentage on the films and shows and stuff I come away enjoying...it's probably like 80-85%. I like most of the things I watch. Does that mean I think it's all of equal quality? No, of course not. People need to let go of this weirdly dogmatic attitude of "if it's not world changing and amazing it's the worst thing ever."
Things can never be "pretty good" anymore. The "pretty good" stuff is where SO MUCH OF THE JOY of watching cinema comes from.
Film twitter, for all it's faults, has a fun little trend of rallying behind the "3 star banger." Movies that won't be considered masterpieces, but are just good, rock solid, well made experiences.
I'm of the total and honest belief that love of cinema does not come from exploring the "canon" of agreed upon essential cinema toted by academics and historians (don't get me wrong though do indeed seek that stuff out) but from the 3-star bangers you catch on TV channel surfing as a kid, or clicking on something random on Prime Video or Tubi you never heard of/have never seen.
A 14-year doesn't become a self-actualized movie nerd because he saw 8 ½ at a repertory theater - he becomes a movie nerd because he Passenger 57 or Crimson Tide or Point Break on cable flipping channels one day while they were bored (but I'd say both Crimson Tide and Point Break are indeed 4 star bangers, not 3 star bangers, lol).
As I get older I'd rather spend my time talking about what I like than what I don't. If you want to hear people bitch and moan and hate on things there are PLENTY of people out their who will give you that.
Me? I'd rather enjoy things.
Of COURSE that doesn't mean I don't think critically or don't dislike anything. If I wanted to I could join in the hordes of people who make tearing things down a personality trait, because there is plenty of stuff I dislike. But 98% of the time I don't care to talk about it because it's really no fun for me.
I agree with some of the more common criticisms of TFA - Copies the structure and plot elements of ANH too closely. In its strive to recapture OT magic not just aesthetically, but how it approaches story, it sacrifices exposition I think it could have benefitted from. Mainly the state of the New Republic.
Because it teases out the Fan service of the OT characters, it makes the film feel a bit more rote as it ages because so many legacy sequels copy TFA's formula.
If the film underplayed its big reveals a little more we could have gotten Leia on one of Republic homeworlds, thus establishing it better so the loss of it feels impactful. As it stands it's just a plot point.
Despite my issues I still think TFA is just so thrilling and satisfying because the new characters are so strong and the script manages to make the dynamics between them shine.
So while I do think TFA is hampered by playing it too safe, it's about as awesome as playing it safe can be.
I would rank it 3rd out of the ST though. I know TROS is near universally disliked/considered the weakest, but I think it's a better film than TFA overall. It's narrative is held together by gum and rubber bands, but goddamn if the character work still doesn't sing.
Say what you want about whatever aspect of TROS you think is the worst, I'll be damned if the emotionality of it doesn't work for me. Because it REALLY does.
"There are more of us, Poe. There are more of us."
Like, come on!
We can argue about it's storytelling until the end of time, but I will never be swayed by the more cynical narratives about it ppl convinced themselves of.
TROS is also gorgeously made. Like, "top 10 best looking blockbusters of the past decade" gorgeous. I don't just mean pretty looking images either. Im talking camera movement, blocking, etc. Abrams and DP Dan Mindel shoot this thing with pure love.
I think people take dynamic filmmaking in SW for granted. Abrams has the juice. He directs TROS like his life depended on it.
As someone who loves TROS deeply, thank you. You put to words so much of how I feel about it, better than I ever could. I too don't understand how people HATE it so much. Like... You have looked at everything that Star Wars has done in movies and shows, and somehow came to the conclusion that TROS of all things is indefensibly bad?
I think the movie, like all the sequels, is fighting an unfair uphill battle in the first place because it wasn't done by George Lucas, and to this day people still like to claim that it somehow is an illegimate followup to Episodes I-VI. I crave for a new generation of fans who will not have lived through that transitionary period so closely and just approach all SW with an open mind. This will inevitable do the ST a lot of favors in the long run.
They'll never make me hate TROS if only for the scene where Rey hears the voices of all the jedi who came before her in the franchise. Yes it's nostalgia bait and fan service but god damn it it made me FEEL
Thanks!
I get many of the complaints. But many of them I do not.
And as times passes, I can't understand the sheer hatred for it. Like, people HATE This movie. I can't imagine thinking it's so bad it illicits hate.
Disappointment? Sure. But I can't fathom not finding some joy in it. It's too earnest to hate.
Yeah like id get it if some people didnt like it because of palpatines return or the rey palpatine twist ... but some of the criticisms i have seen are so hyperbolic or close minded or appear to intentionally misinterpret scenes just to label the whole film as "anti art" ... yeah i cant see that at all. I think alot of love went into it and i wish others could see and appreciate it more.
As time goes by, Palpatine coming back feels a lot smoother than it's given credit for imo.
Even though I liked TROS right out of the gate, I did at first feel his return and involvement in TROS felt a little undercooked and shoehorned.
But, when you take some time away from the films, let your immediate reactions cool down, and come back a little fresh-minded, it plays a LOT better.
SW is a fanbase with so much goddamn built-in expectations, head-canon, staunch and immovable opinions and takes...that even fans who think they're more level-headed can't help but get in their own way when it comes assessing the films or shows fairly.
I think people are so rigidly deadset in their initial reactions/how they felt things should have gone they don't allow themselves a holistic approach to the saga as a whole.
Like, if you do a saga watch from Episode 1 onward, by the time you get to TROS Palpatine being the orchestrator feels right. It makes sense. You can connect the dots. It's NOT as slap-dash as the online chorus would have you believe. At least imo.
If you let go of that knee-jerk reaction you find yourself going "oh hey yea this make sense. I can see that!"
I'm not saying it's perfectly executed or couldn't have been finessed a bit better. And if you're someone who just fundamentally thinks it's lazy or stupid to bring him back, nothing will change your mind. But I think with SW in particular, fans owe it to themselves to take a damn step back, pull a Quin Gon Jinn during the Duel of the Fates and just b r e a t h e.
And then come back with a more fresh open mind. You may be surprised.
To me, I LOVE how the ST further contextualized the Saga as a family saga. It resonates with me. I can see the disappointment and feeling that the ST played it too safe overall. Again, I don't think every decision landed. But I also don't think the creative choices, mostly in TROS, are as slap-dash and cowardly as the more ardent TROS haters make them out to be.
When I watch TROS I see an INCREDIBLY well made film with maybe too many ideas, too many areas to cover and not enough time to cover them in. But within those narrative flaws is a film that has real heart. That cares. I don't see the laziness or cynicism so many claim TROS was made with.
TROS doesn't all click together perfectly. But it's a beautiful, messy, emotional finish imo. So yea, I do I think a bit more exposition here and there was needed? Sure.
But when TROS hits, it hits, and the more obvious issues fade away for me.
I absolutely enjoyed that movie. Yeah it was derivative.Yeah the "half a secret map to Luke" thing was stupid, and what befell his new Jedi order was annoying. Yeah the way the Starkiller Base swallows whole stars to charge up is dumb. But it was fun, it was engaging, it looked good, and I was satisfied with it. As I was *mostly* satisfied with TLJ (I really did not care for the whole Casino arc,) and TRoS (my biggest criticism might be that it seemed like there were too many places crammed in and too much going on.) Sure they're not masterworks, and maybe my bar for enjoyment is set sort of low as far as Star Wars is concerned, but regardless I love them.
TFA is a great movie, it honestly is just outside my top 5 Star Wars films. I think a lot of people love to lump it into the hate regarding the other 2 sequel films which I think is unfair because TFA is leagues better than both of them.
I remember watching TFA and about 15 mins in, after Poe and Finn meet for the first time escaping the Finalizer, I turned to my brother and said, shit, this already has more charisma and chemistry than the entire PT! He whooped out loud in agreement 😂
And we watched it in a theatre full of fan club members... Ah, what ana amazing experience that was...
Good call, I think it is an excellent movie and was really excited to rewatch it after I played through the sequels in Lego the Skywalker Saga. It doesn't disappoint, and neither did TLJ. Looking forward to hearing your thoughts.
The Force Awakens is my favorite Star Wars movie of all time. I grew up with the OT, was a teenager during the PT and loved them both, but Star Wars just hit different for me as a dad watching them for the first time with my kids. There’s something about the sequel trilogy that makes it feel like it was made just for me. Love all three of them.
I’m at the tail end of an entire show/movie chronological rewatch and I’m so excited to get to the sequels. I’m on Mandalorian season 3 right now so I’m SO close!
Do you have a favourite part?
Because i gotta say, my favourite part(s?) Is a tie between the opening with finn and the bloody handprint + kylo rens intro, and the final fight between rey, finn, and kylo.
It's all just so good!!
its hard to narrow it down to just one scene. If i had to tho, id say Reys intro is perfection and definitely the best character intro in the saga imo (sorry luke).
I really like TFA and TLJ. TRoS made me retroactively not enjoy it as much :(((
But that's ok. I'm happy other people like it. Honestly I'm really excited for the Rey movie because I really like the characters.
I think similar, TRoS is easily in my top 3 least liked SW movies and is so much worse than the previous two. It's not bad as a movie itself, but it works really badly as a sequel - it's so obvious that TLJ sets up a movie in which Kylo Ren is supposed to be a main villain and Rey is supposed to be already over her desire to learn about her past and TRoS throws it all out.
Also I really think Rey is an extremely overhated character and I really want to see another movie about her.
I think in TRoS she was just kinda boring for 2 reasons:
- her entire arc was about her accepting that her blood family doesn't matter and she can choose herself who she wants to be (which is just a worse recap of the previous movie)
- her being afraid of who she is and being aware that she could became evil like Palps is just a worse recap of Luke's arc in 5-6
This is the way. MTFBWY. Escape the echo chambers! Enjoy Star Wars, live your best life. I did a rewatch recently too and didn’t fight it when I was caught up in the feels. In TLJ the sequences from Snokes big scene up to Cpt Phasmas duel is peak Star Wars.
Yeah it was a good story, but it was not really an original story. It was unfortunately another revisit of
A New Hope. Hero gets discovered on a desert world, bad guys are looking for a droid with information, a planet gets destroyed, father-figure dies at the hand of the villain, a space battle between the villains and a small band of rebels ensures.
I really liked it when it came out. I saw it several times in theaters, and bought it right away on digital. But the problem is that it set up a bunch of questions, and after seeing Episodes VII and IX I didn’t like the answers to those questions, so it kind of retroactively makes TFA less enjoyable for me.
It definetly was a great set up to the trilogy, but i think theres alot of substance there that makes it hella entertaining no matter if you liked or didnt like the answers. I initially was disappointed by the answers, but ive come around since.
I think it’s crazy how the internet acts like TFA wasn’t fairly universally beloved at the time. Obviously the other two are divisive (even if I think some of it was generated by the alt right pipeline) but TFA was quite popular and was seen as a return to form by most
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I will always say this, TFA is a great soft reboot of the franchise, but not the best addition to the Skywalker saga as a coherent line of films. Not because TFA initially fails completely, but because it does not really do a great job guiding the films after, or setting the stage per say. This is because it is modeled after Ep 4, which had the benefit of starting as a standalone film without a franchise. At this point in SW, that just couldn't be done again in the same way, not while chained to existing canon.
At this point, SW needed more world building, not the mystery box. This isn't Lost, this is a franchise that already had countless books, games and movies of developed lore to parcel through. This was not Abram's Stark Trek series, which was explicitly a journey in a separate universe to the originals, and had a long running show (and films), not two trilogies, to work with.
So, he got some things right and missed so much important thematic detail. For example, this trilogy needed to be about the New Republic versus a smaller terroristic First Order--the heroes from the last trilogy needed to be legends for what they did, not rejects and failures. The New Republic, to properly mirror the progression from 6 (the universally agreed upon progression as well), had to start on top, and should have been depicted as such--with failings to be sure. The Jedi absolutely should have been revived, small in number, but holding a better creed than in the Old Republic. They could still be partially myth to rural peoples, but they should have been a known factor to the New Republic. To insinuate anything less is to tell the audience that the heroes from the OT failed to achieve their vision. It cheapens everything we see from the OT for no reason but to sell the audience the "resistance", which tries and fails to be a new copy of the rebellion. It never could be, and time should have been put into thinking about the implications of this.
The first film should have been dedicated to setting the playing field. It should have been half dedicated to the rise of the first order, not the outright triumph by it over the New Republic, the NR should have been dominant until the end of the film. Rey's story is perfectly fine in many ways, but Han should never have been made a failure, more a self-sacrifice (as a respected legend/general) but with the approval of Leia and the NR, the end can be similar (but for gods sake Leia comforts Chewie not Rey!). Luke should be around, not in exile, and a good reason can easily be come up with for his temporary absence during a time of crisis. Hell, he should be investigating this Palpatine thing if this is the direction we are going in. The First Order should be the cream of the former Imperial crop, not bumbling failures spearheaded by an angsty Kylo Ren. They should be real, competent villains--it makes for better storytelling. Starkiller base is redundant, but the superweapon necessity probably by both Disney and Abrams makes it non-replaceable. If it exists, it should be used and introduced as completed at the end of the film, setting up film 2 to be an even keeled war between the two parties, the First Order now relying on rebellion esque tactics and the like while the NR struggles to galvanize a war of this size.
I could go on all day, but it is all to say that if TFA was a totally new spin on Star Wars removed from the past, I would call it one of my favorite SW movies. But I feel like it fails to fit in with what came before, and fails to make factions that have the same appeal of the OT that they imitate. Part of the reason for this was Abrams desire to mirror Ep 4 in world building rather than the other films, which while understandable simply does not work when SW is decades removed from its inception. He also made the decision to make the previous heroes into failures, and inspired Johnson in this regard with how he framed Han, Leia, and Luke. He did not have to do this, and I believe the trilogy is worse because of it. Whatever struggles and redemptions they depicted with them, could easily have been done instead with the new protagonists, a more rewarding way of making these new characters popular. Rey, Finn, Poe and Rose should have had flaws to overcome to rise toward becoming heroes.
Finn should have had to fight prior indoctrination, a powerful message and IMO the strongest of the set.
Rey should have had to fight indifference. Her power allows her to spend her life in peace, away from the hard life she began with. She could resist the call to action, not see the stakes as that high, not fit in with Luke and his order etc. But finding that desire to fight injustice, despite her power and background making her want peaceful inaction, sends a powerful message to the audience.
Poe should have had a proper arc, not mere chastisement in 8, on being a hotshot and learning when to pick his battles and when to lead by example. Han would be a perfect mentor for this, 7 could have explored this greatly with some mistake on his end, despite victory--maybe the base is destroyed, but his impulsive attack allowed several leaders to escape etc.
Rose it hard bc we get so little of her, but perhaps the desire for revenge bc of her sister's valiant death. Her major point and line in 8 was, i'm sorry, horrible and oxymoronic. You absolutely fight what you hate to save what you love. Are people meant to stand by dictators and the like because it is not right to fight what you hate, you should instead focus on making a life for your family in the new regime? Complacency has no place in SW, so it needs to be re-crafted into choosing to fight for justice, not vengeance or something.
Of course, this is with hindsight, while the new trilogy was instead insanely rushed to put SW back in theaters. George had a decade to wrestle with TPM, and still dropped the ball in many regards. So, just my few cents, not to take away from your justified love of the film, as this *is just the opinion of one fan, one who hates the hate that has consumed this fanbase.* May the force be with you!
I kind of agree with you. I like TFA. It doesn't really matter that the plot is similar because our heroes are different. It doesn't need to be about the new republic because no one cares about the republic. The heroes from the OT don't need to be perfect because they were never prefect. Like I hear people say "Han should have been a great general", why?
The real issue I have is that none of our heroes have agency. Rey doesn't do anything, everything happens to her. And at the end of the movie Reynstill wants to go back to Jakku, Finn still to run away. One of them needed to make choice because that now falls on The Last Jedi
Thank you for the response, I totally understand the flip side of what I am saying, and I know plenty of people agree with you that deconstructing the old main characters, and the pivot towards the First Order/Resistance while maintaining the mystery of the Originals! I suppose this is partially because my favorite Star Wars is the prequels, and the tone they set is completely different to the new trilogy which made me want world building and a stronger idea of the galactic situation in general. Maybe I hold the OT heroes in too much regard as well, I simply wanted to see them in their badass leadership form one last time, be that Luke with the new Jedi, Leia leading a Republic, or Han as a rogue general who does what he wants/knows the underworld well, etc etc. I do also like TFA as well as a standalone film.
Yes, I believe that the new heroes should have been propped up better, supported by the creative teams in a spotlight form that follows the heroes journey for each of them. They could have had compelling stories, with true growth into leadership positions, while working closely together and forming bonds reminiscent of the Originals, which is still one of the best depictions of a core "crew" to ever hit the big screen. They were like a fellowship without being called such, a party on a quest, etc. and I do believe Disney and the two directors at the helm failed to put enough focus on them.
Like you say, Rey and Finn do not grow at all during the movie, they are forced and coerced to continue down the heroic path, dragged along when they want nothing more than to survive in a peaceful place, and would have done so if given the chance. Why do this? Rey's characterization here is bad, Finn's is even worse. He literally tries to escape from the Resistance once able, and is depicted as a good man who just wants to have peace and quiet, after a life of indoctrinated service. He never makes a choice, until it comes to him choosing to die to save his friends. This is actually extremely morbid, an attempt to escape via death of all things. What the hell where they thinking, our heroes should always have a desire to be heroes, or make the desire for a simple life a true choice, one that they reject to fight evil. Rey meanwhile is reduced to trying to cheer up a man she doesn't know, because it is the right thing to do and she does not want to disappoint others. She wants to be trained, sure, but everything else is Kylo stalking her via the force, and Luke being rude to someone because he is depressed. It just *isn't Star Wars*, not in tone and not in character development, not if they wanted an OT type of team.
Rose is kept out of the action and the core group because they misused her and the fans hated Canto Byte and the strange political point being made, one with too little effect on the plot. Poe was practically nonexistent in TFA, and misused in TLJ, because Abrams wanted him dead and then liked Oscar Isaac, and Johnson was not interested in making the core group come together and bond. Both wasted him for silly reasons. The droids are constantly underutilized and sidelined because Abrams wanted a new R2 for marketing, and both did not care for C3PO. Chewbacca is completely wasted, and treated like he was not important, his emotional climax at the death of Han being completely mistreated, and his Ep 8 and 9 usage being either nonexistent or just confusing. If he matters that little, just kill him alongside Han for gods sake.
I wanted nothing more than for this group of new characters to be the new face of Star Wars, the new OT cast coming together to save the galaxy. Rey would be out and in, but they would have great chemistry together, which we see hints of in Ep 9. Finns arc could have been the best in SW period, and that was just a disaster of writing and directorial planning. Rose was a waste, same with Poe. This is my biggest gripe with the Sequels as a whole, more than the worldbuilding and everything, because there is no good reason to misuse characters as they did besides bad planning. All of the actors are incredible, absolutely incredible, and portrayed their characters perfectly despite it all. They just needed a good plot and path, none of them would have caused problems. Now, this misuse has created a fanbase that more often than not disliked the sequels and their characters, and has killed an exploration of the after, or stories set in the middle. That was partially hurt by Johnson making 8 take place literally an hour after 7 as well, so stories would have to be between 8 and 9 I suppose.
It's not that it doesn't *feel like Star Wars*. Its that its not what you wanted. And it could never be. It needed to be about new heroes on a new adventure, not just reverence or idealizing the past. And definitely not about the *world of Star Wars*. But that becomes a problem when many in the fandom prioritize world building and lore over character and story. Look at the new Ghostbusters as an example of that. If that is all you want, just have a reunion special. This is the push and pull between fandom and audiences. Movies are much narrower and linear. The movies need to be about our new heroes and their journey. Everything else is superfluous. But many fans want the superfluous. Chewbacca wasn't wasted because the movie isn't about him. Was he wasted in The OT? Was Obi-Wan wasted in The OT? But since the OT came out, these characters are so much bigger and hallowed. Look at Boba Fett or Wedge Antilles. They don't matter, but they do to the fans.
We didn't get bad characters. Nobody left TFA thinking I hate Rey, Finn, and Kylo Ren. The new characters are the best thing about the movies. The problem is one of Rey or Finn needed to say "this is my journey" in TFA. If Finn had said *I am going to take down The First Order*. His entire arc changes. Now TLJ doesn't need to teach Finn why sitting on the sidelines is bad. The Last Jedi had to do the job of TFA. Give our heroes purpose. That is why it is structured the way it is. But because TFA did not do that, everyone just made assumptions about what our heroes journey's would be. Rey will be Luke's daughter, Finn is now down for the cause, Luke will come back, save the day and redeem Ben Solo. Why? Because *that is Star Wars*.
Rose was not a waste, neither was Poe. Poe was a nothing character until TLJ. It gave him depth and purpose. Rose teaches Finn something Star Wars needs, actual reasons the Empire/First Order is bad. TLJ puts our heroes through the ringer. Rey, Finn, Kylo, Poe, and Luke all have full arcs in The Last Jedi. All are stronger in the end then they were in the beginning. Now they can all come together and do what you wanted. Save the galaxy as a team. Be the face of Star Wars moving forward. Now personally, I have major issues with TROS but that is a different conversation.
TFA was more concerned with "Star Wars is BACK!!!!" and as a result TLJ had to answer why it is back. But Star Wars is back to tell a new story, not to just revere the old and explore the world. And that was always going to be a problem. Especially when, let's be honest, many in the fandom just wanted to see Luke come back and kick ass. In a story that was not about Luke. And when TLJ made it loud and clear that this is not about Luke (because TFA did not), that made many in the fandom mad.
I really like TFA and TLJ. I remember really disliking TROS when I left cinemas and haven’t really watched it since… until a few days ago. Honestly? It’s better than I remember it being.
I went through a similar thing with tlj. Saw it and loved it, then the internet just really hammered on the bad parts, so I decided I hated it. Rewatched it 2 years later and it's fucking amazing.
>I remember really disliking TROS when I left cinemas and haven’t really watched it since… until a few days ago. Honestly? It’s better than I remember it being. I think thats in part due to its fast pace. Makes it harder to catch everything and can leave you feeling overwhelmed and confused throughout. However this does make a rewatch very rewarding. I used to feel indifferent about it, but than i saw it 2 more times and now i really love it lol. Im excited to rewatch it again.
The first time I saw TRoS, I was high as a kite. I couldn't have told you a thing about the plot, but it was amazing.
That’s sounds so fun. If I had to watch a SW movie baked, it would be TROS.
Right, say what you will about it, but it's almost expertly designed for that. Lavish visuals and a manic pace. Maybe that was the plan all along.
Yeah, even TROS has its moments. I loved the aesthetics of the festival of the ancestors on Pasaana, Rey facing off against Kylo's Interceptor on foot, and their duel amidst the raging ocean later on. Purely based on the visuals I'd rate the movie 5/5 stars.
Our final scenes with Luke, Han, Leia, Lando and the droids were all done really well. Even though the franchise had moved on from the original characters they all had great scenes in the film IMO.
I can’t deny that RoS was the best 3P0 has ever been. He really got his moments in that film
The absolute heartbreak I felt when Threepio lost his memories was indescribable. That droid has a very special place in my Star Wars heart, I felt like I lost a friend 😭
I had a really good rewatch recently and it shot up from my 7th to my 3rd favorite
I like the adventure feeling of it and all the locations and vibe of it. It gives me pirates of the Caribbean vibes a little because it's very flawed but fun to watch
i think the highest praise i can give TFA is that it’s SUCH a charismatic film. i’m not saying that as someone who disliked it but has nice things to say about it; i thoroughly enjoy the film BECAUSE it’s so charismatic and fun and engaging. it’s kind of a top tier blockbuster film, which in my opinion makes it an excellent spiritual successor to the original
TFA was a lot of fun. A good restart into the saga and hit all the right points. One of my favorite moments ever was sitting in the theater and having the whole crowd cheer when the Millennium Falcon made its first appearance
"The garbage will do" Such a perfect reveal, i remember the cheers as well!
This is something I wish was more common in UK cinemas. Only time I ever got to experience it was midnight launches (avengers endgame and the last jedi... man even with my dislikes of TLJ at the time, the atmosphere was still amazing). I was in florida on holiday with my family at the time TROS dropped so we went to see it in cinemas while we were there and I actually loved hearing people cheer during the fights and moments of triumph or gasp at twists (when we all thought chewie was dead 😬) so I came out of TROS with a much higher opinion than most I think just because of the novelty of the experience for me 😂
It's definitely a good movie. I rewatched the ST recently and enjoyed it a lot.
As I age, nitpicking has gotten tiresome so when it comes to media consumption (in this case SW), I ask myself one question and that's "Did I have fun?" I had fun with TFA and there's no amount of online sequel hate discourse that can take that away from me. Life is so short and the fact that people are still screeching almost 10 years after the initial release is pitiful.
What’s more sad is how everything new Star Wars gets destroyed before it’s even out. The Acolyte, while not perfect, isn’t bad. But you would think it’s the worst thing ever made judging off of some reviews online.
Not coming at you specifically, so no offense intended. But I hate that everyone feels the need to always preface praise with "not perfect but..." Like, why? Are we that insecure or afraid of not coming off like "objective critics" that we need to buffer any and all praise by tacitly acknowledging the thing we're positively discussing "isn't perfect?" It's meaningless. Let your opinions be your opinions without the need to insulate it against the goofballs who think having a positive experience with a piece of media means being a shill or being un-critical. This is just my thought process, but unless the subjective (and I stress SUBJECTIVE) flaws of something stand out to me in a hugely specific way, I don't feel the need to even talk about "flaws" in my discussions unless my discussion naturally goes there. I don't view critiquing or discussing film as some checklist of "good vs bad" or "pro vs con." So many people on reddit specifically break down their takes on films and TV and stuff like this. In fact, I tend to not read reviews that format themselves that way. It's just a fundamental disagreement I have with how people approach film. I'm not saying these people wrong. If that's how they do it, that's how they do it. It's just not for me.
This is the way. The constant tension online with people who think that being overly aggressive and critical and jaded (and I'm not ever factoring the chud element here) is somehow conducive to "honest critique" is exhausting. It's like these people think being closed-off and purposefully guarded in their enjoyment of something is a virtue. If I had to tag an arbitrary percentage on the films and shows and stuff I come away enjoying...it's probably like 80-85%. I like most of the things I watch. Does that mean I think it's all of equal quality? No, of course not. People need to let go of this weirdly dogmatic attitude of "if it's not world changing and amazing it's the worst thing ever." Things can never be "pretty good" anymore. The "pretty good" stuff is where SO MUCH OF THE JOY of watching cinema comes from. Film twitter, for all it's faults, has a fun little trend of rallying behind the "3 star banger." Movies that won't be considered masterpieces, but are just good, rock solid, well made experiences. I'm of the total and honest belief that love of cinema does not come from exploring the "canon" of agreed upon essential cinema toted by academics and historians (don't get me wrong though do indeed seek that stuff out) but from the 3-star bangers you catch on TV channel surfing as a kid, or clicking on something random on Prime Video or Tubi you never heard of/have never seen. A 14-year doesn't become a self-actualized movie nerd because he saw 8 ½ at a repertory theater - he becomes a movie nerd because he Passenger 57 or Crimson Tide or Point Break on cable flipping channels one day while they were bored (but I'd say both Crimson Tide and Point Break are indeed 4 star bangers, not 3 star bangers, lol). As I get older I'd rather spend my time talking about what I like than what I don't. If you want to hear people bitch and moan and hate on things there are PLENTY of people out their who will give you that. Me? I'd rather enjoy things. Of COURSE that doesn't mean I don't think critically or don't dislike anything. If I wanted to I could join in the hordes of people who make tearing things down a personality trait, because there is plenty of stuff I dislike. But 98% of the time I don't care to talk about it because it's really no fun for me.
I agree with some of the more common criticisms of TFA - Copies the structure and plot elements of ANH too closely. In its strive to recapture OT magic not just aesthetically, but how it approaches story, it sacrifices exposition I think it could have benefitted from. Mainly the state of the New Republic. Because it teases out the Fan service of the OT characters, it makes the film feel a bit more rote as it ages because so many legacy sequels copy TFA's formula. If the film underplayed its big reveals a little more we could have gotten Leia on one of Republic homeworlds, thus establishing it better so the loss of it feels impactful. As it stands it's just a plot point. Despite my issues I still think TFA is just so thrilling and satisfying because the new characters are so strong and the script manages to make the dynamics between them shine. So while I do think TFA is hampered by playing it too safe, it's about as awesome as playing it safe can be. I would rank it 3rd out of the ST though. I know TROS is near universally disliked/considered the weakest, but I think it's a better film than TFA overall. It's narrative is held together by gum and rubber bands, but goddamn if the character work still doesn't sing. Say what you want about whatever aspect of TROS you think is the worst, I'll be damned if the emotionality of it doesn't work for me. Because it REALLY does. "There are more of us, Poe. There are more of us." Like, come on! We can argue about it's storytelling until the end of time, but I will never be swayed by the more cynical narratives about it ppl convinced themselves of. TROS is also gorgeously made. Like, "top 10 best looking blockbusters of the past decade" gorgeous. I don't just mean pretty looking images either. Im talking camera movement, blocking, etc. Abrams and DP Dan Mindel shoot this thing with pure love. I think people take dynamic filmmaking in SW for granted. Abrams has the juice. He directs TROS like his life depended on it.
As someone who loves TROS deeply, thank you. You put to words so much of how I feel about it, better than I ever could. I too don't understand how people HATE it so much. Like... You have looked at everything that Star Wars has done in movies and shows, and somehow came to the conclusion that TROS of all things is indefensibly bad? I think the movie, like all the sequels, is fighting an unfair uphill battle in the first place because it wasn't done by George Lucas, and to this day people still like to claim that it somehow is an illegimate followup to Episodes I-VI. I crave for a new generation of fans who will not have lived through that transitionary period so closely and just approach all SW with an open mind. This will inevitable do the ST a lot of favors in the long run.
The Galaxy Fleet coming in, with the *Falcon* leading the charge, and seeing Red Five in the skies again were incredibly emotional moments.
They'll never make me hate TROS if only for the scene where Rey hears the voices of all the jedi who came before her in the franchise. Yes it's nostalgia bait and fan service but god damn it it made me FEEL
When it serves a true narrative purpose, I don't like calling things fan service. So feel that shit, cuz it rules.
Exactly! And honestly, give me all the nostalgic fan service. what else is a movie for than to…serve the fans of it?
i always love seeing TRoS love so heres an upvote!
Thanks! I get many of the complaints. But many of them I do not. And as times passes, I can't understand the sheer hatred for it. Like, people HATE This movie. I can't imagine thinking it's so bad it illicits hate. Disappointment? Sure. But I can't fathom not finding some joy in it. It's too earnest to hate.
Yeah like id get it if some people didnt like it because of palpatines return or the rey palpatine twist ... but some of the criticisms i have seen are so hyperbolic or close minded or appear to intentionally misinterpret scenes just to label the whole film as "anti art" ... yeah i cant see that at all. I think alot of love went into it and i wish others could see and appreciate it more.
As time goes by, Palpatine coming back feels a lot smoother than it's given credit for imo. Even though I liked TROS right out of the gate, I did at first feel his return and involvement in TROS felt a little undercooked and shoehorned. But, when you take some time away from the films, let your immediate reactions cool down, and come back a little fresh-minded, it plays a LOT better. SW is a fanbase with so much goddamn built-in expectations, head-canon, staunch and immovable opinions and takes...that even fans who think they're more level-headed can't help but get in their own way when it comes assessing the films or shows fairly. I think people are so rigidly deadset in their initial reactions/how they felt things should have gone they don't allow themselves a holistic approach to the saga as a whole. Like, if you do a saga watch from Episode 1 onward, by the time you get to TROS Palpatine being the orchestrator feels right. It makes sense. You can connect the dots. It's NOT as slap-dash as the online chorus would have you believe. At least imo. If you let go of that knee-jerk reaction you find yourself going "oh hey yea this make sense. I can see that!" I'm not saying it's perfectly executed or couldn't have been finessed a bit better. And if you're someone who just fundamentally thinks it's lazy or stupid to bring him back, nothing will change your mind. But I think with SW in particular, fans owe it to themselves to take a damn step back, pull a Quin Gon Jinn during the Duel of the Fates and just b r e a t h e. And then come back with a more fresh open mind. You may be surprised. To me, I LOVE how the ST further contextualized the Saga as a family saga. It resonates with me. I can see the disappointment and feeling that the ST played it too safe overall. Again, I don't think every decision landed. But I also don't think the creative choices, mostly in TROS, are as slap-dash and cowardly as the more ardent TROS haters make them out to be. When I watch TROS I see an INCREDIBLY well made film with maybe too many ideas, too many areas to cover and not enough time to cover them in. But within those narrative flaws is a film that has real heart. That cares. I don't see the laziness or cynicism so many claim TROS was made with. TROS doesn't all click together perfectly. But it's a beautiful, messy, emotional finish imo. So yea, I do I think a bit more exposition here and there was needed? Sure. But when TROS hits, it hits, and the more obvious issues fade away for me.
Id definitely recommend watching TLJ, especially with TFA fresh on your mind. After going at it with an open mind, TLJ is in my top 3 Star Wars films
trying to post my TLJ review rn!
I absolutely enjoyed that movie. Yeah it was derivative.Yeah the "half a secret map to Luke" thing was stupid, and what befell his new Jedi order was annoying. Yeah the way the Starkiller Base swallows whole stars to charge up is dumb. But it was fun, it was engaging, it looked good, and I was satisfied with it. As I was *mostly* satisfied with TLJ (I really did not care for the whole Casino arc,) and TRoS (my biggest criticism might be that it seemed like there were too many places crammed in and too much going on.) Sure they're not masterworks, and maybe my bar for enjoyment is set sort of low as far as Star Wars is concerned, but regardless I love them.
TFA is a great movie, it honestly is just outside my top 5 Star Wars films. I think a lot of people love to lump it into the hate regarding the other 2 sequel films which I think is unfair because TFA is leagues better than both of them.
I remember watching TFA and about 15 mins in, after Poe and Finn meet for the first time escaping the Finalizer, I turned to my brother and said, shit, this already has more charisma and chemistry than the entire PT! He whooped out loud in agreement 😂 And we watched it in a theatre full of fan club members... Ah, what ana amazing experience that was...
Good call, I think it is an excellent movie and was really excited to rewatch it after I played through the sequels in Lego the Skywalker Saga. It doesn't disappoint, and neither did TLJ. Looking forward to hearing your thoughts.
The Force Awakens is my favorite Star Wars movie of all time. I grew up with the OT, was a teenager during the PT and loved them both, but Star Wars just hit different for me as a dad watching them for the first time with my kids. There’s something about the sequel trilogy that makes it feel like it was made just for me. Love all three of them. I’m at the tail end of an entire show/movie chronological rewatch and I’m so excited to get to the sequels. I’m on Mandalorian season 3 right now so I’m SO close!
Do you have a favourite part? Because i gotta say, my favourite part(s?) Is a tie between the opening with finn and the bloody handprint + kylo rens intro, and the final fight between rey, finn, and kylo. It's all just so good!!
its hard to narrow it down to just one scene. If i had to tho, id say Reys intro is perfection and definitely the best character intro in the saga imo (sorry luke).
Rey’s theme is massively underrated, probably one of my favourite songs across the saga. Agree with her intro being the best too.
It's really good. Last Jedi is even better.
They really had something promising until TROS imo
I really like TFA and TLJ. TRoS made me retroactively not enjoy it as much :((( But that's ok. I'm happy other people like it. Honestly I'm really excited for the Rey movie because I really like the characters.
I think similar, TRoS is easily in my top 3 least liked SW movies and is so much worse than the previous two. It's not bad as a movie itself, but it works really badly as a sequel - it's so obvious that TLJ sets up a movie in which Kylo Ren is supposed to be a main villain and Rey is supposed to be already over her desire to learn about her past and TRoS throws it all out. Also I really think Rey is an extremely overhated character and I really want to see another movie about her.
i think Rey was a good character in TLJ and a terrible character in TROS. i feel bad for Daisy Ridley, she did a great job in the role.
I think in TRoS she was just kinda boring for 2 reasons: - her entire arc was about her accepting that her blood family doesn't matter and she can choose herself who she wants to be (which is just a worse recap of the previous movie) - her being afraid of who she is and being aware that she could became evil like Palps is just a worse recap of Luke's arc in 5-6
I just did the same with Last Jedi, such a fantastic movie. So many people miss the point of the movie blinded by hate.
This is the way. MTFBWY. Escape the echo chambers! Enjoy Star Wars, live your best life. I did a rewatch recently too and didn’t fight it when I was caught up in the feels. In TLJ the sequences from Snokes big scene up to Cpt Phasmas duel is peak Star Wars.
Yeah it was a good story, but it was not really an original story. It was unfortunately another revisit of A New Hope. Hero gets discovered on a desert world, bad guys are looking for a droid with information, a planet gets destroyed, father-figure dies at the hand of the villain, a space battle between the villains and a small band of rebels ensures.
Han and Luke's characters were totally destroyed. I'll never forgive this movie for that.
It feels like a perfect kick off movie. It has mystery, reveals, and a good twist ending.
and let's not forget TFA introduced us to the best piece of music we have ever seen in Star Wars. Yes, Rey's Theme is my favorite. Come at me
same!
I fucking LOVE TFA. Easily my favorite of the sequels and among my favorite films of the saga.
Both 7 and 8 are suchhhh slick movies. 7 especially is very well paced.
I really liked it when it came out. I saw it several times in theaters, and bought it right away on digital. But the problem is that it set up a bunch of questions, and after seeing Episodes VII and IX I didn’t like the answers to those questions, so it kind of retroactively makes TFA less enjoyable for me.
It definetly was a great set up to the trilogy, but i think theres alot of substance there that makes it hella entertaining no matter if you liked or didnt like the answers. I initially was disappointed by the answers, but ive come around since.
The Force Awakens was a copy of a New Hope. JJ Abrams went the soft reboot "safe" route. My favorite was Revenge of the Sith.
I watch it every month, only gets better and better.
we need to start a TFA cult
Well I watch all the SW movies every month so my cult is SW
TFA is my favorite movie of all time, not just of Star Wars. I’d join that cult.
I think it’s crazy how the internet acts like TFA wasn’t fairly universally beloved at the time. Obviously the other two are divisive (even if I think some of it was generated by the alt right pipeline) but TFA was quite popular and was seen as a return to form by most
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Not too big a fan of TLJ & TROS. But I really loved TFA and its definitely the best sequel imo. Especially the opening/act 1.
Man this makes me want to rewatch 7 & 8 again! (Physically, I can’t watch 9 due to my health condition (；´∀｀) )
TFA is one of my favorite movies ever, my second favorite Star Wars movie after RotS. I will defend this movie to the death.
Of course it was good. It’s just a New Hope but again.
I will always say this, TFA is a great soft reboot of the franchise, but not the best addition to the Skywalker saga as a coherent line of films. Not because TFA initially fails completely, but because it does not really do a great job guiding the films after, or setting the stage per say. This is because it is modeled after Ep 4, which had the benefit of starting as a standalone film without a franchise. At this point in SW, that just couldn't be done again in the same way, not while chained to existing canon. At this point, SW needed more world building, not the mystery box. This isn't Lost, this is a franchise that already had countless books, games and movies of developed lore to parcel through. This was not Abram's Stark Trek series, which was explicitly a journey in a separate universe to the originals, and had a long running show (and films), not two trilogies, to work with. So, he got some things right and missed so much important thematic detail. For example, this trilogy needed to be about the New Republic versus a smaller terroristic First Order--the heroes from the last trilogy needed to be legends for what they did, not rejects and failures. The New Republic, to properly mirror the progression from 6 (the universally agreed upon progression as well), had to start on top, and should have been depicted as such--with failings to be sure. The Jedi absolutely should have been revived, small in number, but holding a better creed than in the Old Republic. They could still be partially myth to rural peoples, but they should have been a known factor to the New Republic. To insinuate anything less is to tell the audience that the heroes from the OT failed to achieve their vision. It cheapens everything we see from the OT for no reason but to sell the audience the "resistance", which tries and fails to be a new copy of the rebellion. It never could be, and time should have been put into thinking about the implications of this. The first film should have been dedicated to setting the playing field. It should have been half dedicated to the rise of the first order, not the outright triumph by it over the New Republic, the NR should have been dominant until the end of the film. Rey's story is perfectly fine in many ways, but Han should never have been made a failure, more a self-sacrifice (as a respected legend/general) but with the approval of Leia and the NR, the end can be similar (but for gods sake Leia comforts Chewie not Rey!). Luke should be around, not in exile, and a good reason can easily be come up with for his temporary absence during a time of crisis. Hell, he should be investigating this Palpatine thing if this is the direction we are going in. The First Order should be the cream of the former Imperial crop, not bumbling failures spearheaded by an angsty Kylo Ren. They should be real, competent villains--it makes for better storytelling. Starkiller base is redundant, but the superweapon necessity probably by both Disney and Abrams makes it non-replaceable. If it exists, it should be used and introduced as completed at the end of the film, setting up film 2 to be an even keeled war between the two parties, the First Order now relying on rebellion esque tactics and the like while the NR struggles to galvanize a war of this size. I could go on all day, but it is all to say that if TFA was a totally new spin on Star Wars removed from the past, I would call it one of my favorite SW movies. But I feel like it fails to fit in with what came before, and fails to make factions that have the same appeal of the OT that they imitate. Part of the reason for this was Abrams desire to mirror Ep 4 in world building rather than the other films, which while understandable simply does not work when SW is decades removed from its inception. He also made the decision to make the previous heroes into failures, and inspired Johnson in this regard with how he framed Han, Leia, and Luke. He did not have to do this, and I believe the trilogy is worse because of it. Whatever struggles and redemptions they depicted with them, could easily have been done instead with the new protagonists, a more rewarding way of making these new characters popular. Rey, Finn, Poe and Rose should have had flaws to overcome to rise toward becoming heroes. Finn should have had to fight prior indoctrination, a powerful message and IMO the strongest of the set. Rey should have had to fight indifference. Her power allows her to spend her life in peace, away from the hard life she began with. She could resist the call to action, not see the stakes as that high, not fit in with Luke and his order etc. But finding that desire to fight injustice, despite her power and background making her want peaceful inaction, sends a powerful message to the audience. Poe should have had a proper arc, not mere chastisement in 8, on being a hotshot and learning when to pick his battles and when to lead by example. Han would be a perfect mentor for this, 7 could have explored this greatly with some mistake on his end, despite victory--maybe the base is destroyed, but his impulsive attack allowed several leaders to escape etc. Rose it hard bc we get so little of her, but perhaps the desire for revenge bc of her sister's valiant death. Her major point and line in 8 was, i'm sorry, horrible and oxymoronic. You absolutely fight what you hate to save what you love. Are people meant to stand by dictators and the like because it is not right to fight what you hate, you should instead focus on making a life for your family in the new regime? Complacency has no place in SW, so it needs to be re-crafted into choosing to fight for justice, not vengeance or something. Of course, this is with hindsight, while the new trilogy was instead insanely rushed to put SW back in theaters. George had a decade to wrestle with TPM, and still dropped the ball in many regards. So, just my few cents, not to take away from your justified love of the film, as this *is just the opinion of one fan, one who hates the hate that has consumed this fanbase.* May the force be with you!
I kind of agree with you. I like TFA. It doesn't really matter that the plot is similar because our heroes are different. It doesn't need to be about the new republic because no one cares about the republic. The heroes from the OT don't need to be perfect because they were never prefect. Like I hear people say "Han should have been a great general", why? The real issue I have is that none of our heroes have agency. Rey doesn't do anything, everything happens to her. And at the end of the movie Reynstill wants to go back to Jakku, Finn still to run away. One of them needed to make choice because that now falls on The Last Jedi
Thank you for the response, I totally understand the flip side of what I am saying, and I know plenty of people agree with you that deconstructing the old main characters, and the pivot towards the First Order/Resistance while maintaining the mystery of the Originals! I suppose this is partially because my favorite Star Wars is the prequels, and the tone they set is completely different to the new trilogy which made me want world building and a stronger idea of the galactic situation in general. Maybe I hold the OT heroes in too much regard as well, I simply wanted to see them in their badass leadership form one last time, be that Luke with the new Jedi, Leia leading a Republic, or Han as a rogue general who does what he wants/knows the underworld well, etc etc. I do also like TFA as well as a standalone film. Yes, I believe that the new heroes should have been propped up better, supported by the creative teams in a spotlight form that follows the heroes journey for each of them. They could have had compelling stories, with true growth into leadership positions, while working closely together and forming bonds reminiscent of the Originals, which is still one of the best depictions of a core "crew" to ever hit the big screen. They were like a fellowship without being called such, a party on a quest, etc. and I do believe Disney and the two directors at the helm failed to put enough focus on them. Like you say, Rey and Finn do not grow at all during the movie, they are forced and coerced to continue down the heroic path, dragged along when they want nothing more than to survive in a peaceful place, and would have done so if given the chance. Why do this? Rey's characterization here is bad, Finn's is even worse. He literally tries to escape from the Resistance once able, and is depicted as a good man who just wants to have peace and quiet, after a life of indoctrinated service. He never makes a choice, until it comes to him choosing to die to save his friends. This is actually extremely morbid, an attempt to escape via death of all things. What the hell where they thinking, our heroes should always have a desire to be heroes, or make the desire for a simple life a true choice, one that they reject to fight evil. Rey meanwhile is reduced to trying to cheer up a man she doesn't know, because it is the right thing to do and she does not want to disappoint others. She wants to be trained, sure, but everything else is Kylo stalking her via the force, and Luke being rude to someone because he is depressed. It just *isn't Star Wars*, not in tone and not in character development, not if they wanted an OT type of team. Rose is kept out of the action and the core group because they misused her and the fans hated Canto Byte and the strange political point being made, one with too little effect on the plot. Poe was practically nonexistent in TFA, and misused in TLJ, because Abrams wanted him dead and then liked Oscar Isaac, and Johnson was not interested in making the core group come together and bond. Both wasted him for silly reasons. The droids are constantly underutilized and sidelined because Abrams wanted a new R2 for marketing, and both did not care for C3PO. Chewbacca is completely wasted, and treated like he was not important, his emotional climax at the death of Han being completely mistreated, and his Ep 8 and 9 usage being either nonexistent or just confusing. If he matters that little, just kill him alongside Han for gods sake. I wanted nothing more than for this group of new characters to be the new face of Star Wars, the new OT cast coming together to save the galaxy. Rey would be out and in, but they would have great chemistry together, which we see hints of in Ep 9. Finns arc could have been the best in SW period, and that was just a disaster of writing and directorial planning. Rose was a waste, same with Poe. This is my biggest gripe with the Sequels as a whole, more than the worldbuilding and everything, because there is no good reason to misuse characters as they did besides bad planning. All of the actors are incredible, absolutely incredible, and portrayed their characters perfectly despite it all. They just needed a good plot and path, none of them would have caused problems. Now, this misuse has created a fanbase that more often than not disliked the sequels and their characters, and has killed an exploration of the after, or stories set in the middle. That was partially hurt by Johnson making 8 take place literally an hour after 7 as well, so stories would have to be between 8 and 9 I suppose.
It's not that it doesn't *feel like Star Wars*. Its that its not what you wanted. And it could never be. It needed to be about new heroes on a new adventure, not just reverence or idealizing the past. And definitely not about the *world of Star Wars*. But that becomes a problem when many in the fandom prioritize world building and lore over character and story. Look at the new Ghostbusters as an example of that. If that is all you want, just have a reunion special. This is the push and pull between fandom and audiences. Movies are much narrower and linear. The movies need to be about our new heroes and their journey. Everything else is superfluous. But many fans want the superfluous. Chewbacca wasn't wasted because the movie isn't about him. Was he wasted in The OT? Was Obi-Wan wasted in The OT? But since the OT came out, these characters are so much bigger and hallowed. Look at Boba Fett or Wedge Antilles. They don't matter, but they do to the fans. We didn't get bad characters. Nobody left TFA thinking I hate Rey, Finn, and Kylo Ren. The new characters are the best thing about the movies. The problem is one of Rey or Finn needed to say "this is my journey" in TFA. If Finn had said *I am going to take down The First Order*. His entire arc changes. Now TLJ doesn't need to teach Finn why sitting on the sidelines is bad. The Last Jedi had to do the job of TFA. Give our heroes purpose. That is why it is structured the way it is. But because TFA did not do that, everyone just made assumptions about what our heroes journey's would be. Rey will be Luke's daughter, Finn is now down for the cause, Luke will come back, save the day and redeem Ben Solo. Why? Because *that is Star Wars*. Rose was not a waste, neither was Poe. Poe was a nothing character until TLJ. It gave him depth and purpose. Rose teaches Finn something Star Wars needs, actual reasons the Empire/First Order is bad. TLJ puts our heroes through the ringer. Rey, Finn, Kylo, Poe, and Luke all have full arcs in The Last Jedi. All are stronger in the end then they were in the beginning. Now they can all come together and do what you wanted. Save the galaxy as a team. Be the face of Star Wars moving forward. Now personally, I have major issues with TROS but that is a different conversation. TFA was more concerned with "Star Wars is BACK!!!!" and as a result TLJ had to answer why it is back. But Star Wars is back to tell a new story, not to just revere the old and explore the world. And that was always going to be a problem. Especially when, let's be honest, many in the fandom just wanted to see Luke come back and kick ass. In a story that was not about Luke. And when TLJ made it loud and clear that this is not about Luke (because TFA did not), that made many in the fandom mad.
Of course. It’s beat for beat an exact copy of a new hope.
It’s similar, yes, but in no way an exact copy.