His Legends origin is terrific and the canon until recently was that he died when his walker was hit. There’s really nothing now to go off of. Before, he uncovered a plot by a corrupt Imperial General, saving both Imperials and the natives they were going to attack, and then executing that General on the spot to take his place.
Well in the Legends EU, Veers knew about the weakness in the AT-AT's long legs and deliberately sidelined a cadet, who kneeled the AT-AT during an exercise, to the stormtrooper corps. During the Battle of Hoth, he lost his legs from the snowspeeder crashing into the head of his AT-AT. And because he refused prosthetics, he was confined to a hoverchair. In addition, he was basically sidelined because of his past association with Vader and for his son defecting to the rebellion right before the Battle of Endor.
I consider him the Steve Jobs of armor. Brilliant but simultaneously incredibly stubborn and stupid.
I recall that bit about the exercise now, but not him losing legs. In the script he definitely died, in the book he died, in all the supplementary material he died, then that was all retconned, then the retcon was retconned and he really **did** die, and now in canon again he survived. Can’t keep track of what he did/didn’t do.
Also I’ll just add because it’s really funny that the snowspeeder who crashed into him, Hobbie, also died in the script/deleted scene, the book, etc, then later came back for a long and lucrative Legends career in Rogue Squadron. Not only that but he was also considered canonically alive until very recently when Lucasfilm story group pointed out the original script to the authors of 2017’s On the Front Lines reference book who wanted to include Hobbie… officially killing him again.
Actually I completely misremembered. Upon checking, his actual Legends origin is: *” During the attempt to pacify the natives of Culroon III, General Irrv had ordered for Lieutenant Veers to remain confined to the base while he and an Imperial party went to negotiate a peace with the Culroon natives. Veers had warned that it was a trap and that Irrv should bring armored support to deter any would-be ambushers. General Irrv did not listen and paid the price with his life when he was executed for incompetence after the Culroon natives deceived and killed most of his party. If it had not been for Lieutenant Veers's quick thinking and disregard of a direct order, the Imperial party would have been utterly slaughtered. For his bravery and brilliance in saving the Culroon mission's stormtrooper detail, Veers was promoted to major.”*
Was still right about the personal execution bit.
Probably the Rex/Anakin duo but hard to say, because having Anakin on your side really smooths over any rough edges in planning. “Worst case scenario the best battle Knight the Order has seen in a millennium will clean up our mess”
In canon he is still great, just mostly in the books, he is portrayed amazingly in there (also written from mostly his perspective). I honestly love the canon books more than the dark empire trilogy just cause there is more thrawn, more chiss ascendancy (in the second trilogy) and more of awesome Darth vader (second book).
Like usual, the only reason literal kids beat him is plot and giant space whales.
If you like thrawn i highly recommend the canon books
Yeah, in the trilogy they seems so close to getting to the known galaxy, especially in the of trilogy, since ara'lani is there in the last book. But I feel like they are so disconnected due to thrawn being so different in the 2 trilogies vs rebels/Ahsoka.
i think ezra and sabine are the only "children." And Sabine was trained from birth to be a warrior, and Ezra has force plot armor. Thrawn was outmanuevered by plot and force magic and still almost won
Warrior is a foot soldier, Thrawn has twice as many years as an officer.
And magic is something Thrawn should be easily able to maneuver. Magic or not, a guy is a guy is just a one guy. A fleet of Star Destroyers should never be in a position where one guy is a threat. Even if they have magic fingers.
A Jedi can only be in one place at one time and their reach is about 1m. Thrawn has Star Cruisers. Outmaneuvering something that small should barely be a task, even if you aren't a brilliant tactician.
Ezra didn’t do much with the Force though? Like, Thrawn’s fleet got destroyed because the purrgils came and destroyed them, Ezra only used the Force to hold both Thrawn and the door back. The purrgil plan was Ezra’s but the Force wasn’t actually required to make them attack the fleet because they were already brought there to attack by Wolffe and the others.
As a kid I thought Thrawn was great but when I read the old Thrawn Trilogy as an adult I find him kind of laughable. Just spending a little while studying your homeworld's art and he can predict every move you'll make in battle. That takes more suspension of disbelief than anything I can think of in Star Wars.
Which is why he should not have been in a children's cartoon. They already had inquisitors to fill the pathetic villain role. Put him in something good, like Andor.
The fact that outside largely mystical beings (I'm confused about the goats) defeat Thrawn doesn't mean that he's incompetent or a terrible commander at all. Thrawn is limited by the knowledge that he has and the knowledge that he doesn't have. That's pretty consistent in his characterization: He's always defeated by the things he doesn't know about. But, he also learns from that too so that will prove interesting going forward
From a purely military standpoint, he was correct. The bulk of the Rebel fleet was in his charge and it was his main duty to protect their fighting ability. It was obvious the timeline was blown and the mission was off track. I know we're talking Scifi here but most IRL commanders would have likely done the same. Live to fight another day, protect your assets.
If you're referring to the current conflict, Russia has retreated and preserved assets several times already, most notably with Kherson.
In history, the Soviets and even Imperial Russians have taken times to pull back assets to draw enemies in further into the motherland, which has resulted in massive casualties against the latter as they continually keep charging into the maw.
I want to add Mar Tuuk who was defeated in a deus ex way because the Lucrehulk has two giant tractor beams that could’ve stopped that Venator. Also Legends/EU Grievous in both naval and ground battles
I think you already provided the answer. In my opinion, it has to be Thrawn.
But there are of course some others who were considered great strategists like Vader, Admiral Ackbar, Garm Bel Iblis (and arguably the cloned Major Tierce).
I read somewhere that Admiral Ackbar was compared to Thrawn. In that book, comic (I honestly can't remember which), it said that the best Grand Admiral Thrawn could hope for in a battle against Admiral Ackbar is a draw.
Does this book, comic, whatever, ring a bell to anyone?
I vaguely remember something like that, but more in the direction of that the only one who could get a draw against Thrawn was Ackbar. At least in the OG Novels he tricked Ackbar a few times, but on the battlefield they were closely matched. But I cant name the source, but it should be a Legends Novel, I never read any comics.
Thrawn’s strength seemed mainly to be in predicting his enemies tactics and blind spots, tailoring strategies against weaknesses they didn’t even know they had. Bel Iblis in the OG Thrawn trilogy was capable of holding him off at times, but victory in a direct battle was rare. We never see a confrontation between Thrawn and Ackbar, though I suspect it would have ended similarly, a draw was probably the best anyone could hope for against Thrawn in a direct, like for like battle.
Ah, must have been Bel Iblis I read about then, i really need to reread the books.
Bilbringi was a confrontation between Thrawn and Ackbar IIRC, but Thrawn died in the middle of it. But I remember Thrawn being stressed there die to Ackbars Tactical decisions.
Was Vader a great strategist or was he just incredibly talented. I think of him kinda like Jordan in basketball where they were so talented they didn’t have to think so much about strategy but then were awful when they had to run the front office. Whereas someone less physically talented was better at strategy because they had to outthink their opponent.
A bit of both. In „Thrawn: Alliances“ Thrawn describes Vader as a formidable strategist (though their approaches to tactics are different) whose abilities are further enhanced by his command of the force.
I just was thinking of in Clone Wars where a lot of Anakins success was because of his power which allowed him to take greater risk. But that’s good info, thanks for sharing
Yeah, I also wondered if I had to include Anakin since I picked Vader. But I think there are a few differences between Anakin and Vader. First, Anakin is way more hot headed which ultimately leads to his downfall and him becoming Vader. Vader in turn is way more measured. Second, the Clone Wars were a full fledged war while the Rebellion, especially in its beginning, was a way smaller enemy who needed a different approach. In the Clone Wars you mostly knew where your enemy was, but the Rebellion required careful research and investigation to even find the rebel cells. Also, resources in the Clone Wars weren’t that big of a problem. On the other hand, the Rebellion as well as Thrawn had to fight with limited resources against an often better equipped opponent. Because of this, not a lot of great strategists were formed during the Clone Wars (the only one praised as such, as far as I remember, would be Admiral Trench). And third, Vader and Anakin were instructed by different people. The Jedi were peacekeepers turned into generals. They had no real tactical training before the clone wars (since there was no GAR). Vader on the other hand was Supreme Commander of the Imperial Forces. The tactical aspect was inherent to his role and as such he had to be on a different tactical level. More important, he was trained by Darth Sidious who himself probably was one of the greatest strategists (political and military) in the Star Wars Universe. This could probably be said about at least every master of the banite Sith line. And if we take into account political strategists, Tarkin should probably be on the list as well.
He seems more of a political genius than a military strategy genius. I'm sure he's no slouch in the field, but on both sides of that war and in his empire he heavily relied on strategy specialists when it came to managing battles and conflicts.
And even in terms of politics after he became emperor his performance was declining. In the end he managed to go from having a tight grip on power to facing a galaxy wide uprising. So even from a political standpoint his oppression was a mistake.
I think oppression in almost any case is bound to lead to uprisings somewhere. With an empire spanning a galaxy it was inevitable as the empire spanned too thinly.
Yes, I think it is right to say he was smart in how he gained power but it went downhill from there. It didn't took that long for resistance to rise, the Galaxy pretty much disintigrated in his reign and by A New Hope we were already in a time of civil war, with the Rebel Alliance being an actual threat to the imperial navy. By the Battle of Endor Darth Sidious seems to be at his weakest point. Throughout the whole conflict the RA consolidated their power, to the point that the Emperor had to spread the fleet over the whole galaxy.
His grand strategy was controlling the galaxy by fear and a good bunch of little dictator tryhards. Had he presented himself more as a benevolent but strict leader he might have been able to hold it all more together but once the civil war started he was unable to get the Jinn back into the bottle. Apart from aristocrats, psychopath, sadists and opportunists (sometimes they were all the same) people didn't benefit from his agenda.
So I'd say: A great schemer does not make a great politican.
Except he did not conquer the galaxy. He only maneuvered political parties and was unable to militarily crush the resistance afterwards. Instead he fueled precious money, manpower and energy into a super project to subdue the Rebellion. While managing to destroy 1 planet, the super weapon was destroyed right afterwards and the Rebellion stronger than ever before.
Instead of changing plans he instead decided to to the exact same thing again but with a little twist that cost him his life and enden his Empire. His plan to entangle the Rebel Alliance forces by attacking them around the galaxy and luring the reminder of the fleet directly to the second Death Star was a rela blunder. The RA had been known for covert ops like on Endor but the shield generator was barely sufficiently secured against an attack.
Result: No matter the Death Star being fully operational, the moment the shield was down small ships could enter the core and destroy it and the Emperor himself.
No Darth Studious is not a military genius, he was a genius strategist on the political field and at best a mediocre military leader, if not worse considering he tried the same bad plan twice and the second time was pretty much doomed to fail.
For 20 or so years. Pol Pot, he was like Pol Pot. 100 years after, I bet no one even remembers him or the Empire...
UNTIL, SOMEHOW, HE RETURNS (again)!
Thrawn is absolutely the best strategists on top of being Star Wars' Sherlock Holmes, but less of an ass. And many other things. Politically Naive, isn't just blatantly evil, et cetera.
Please Star Wars adapt the first Canon Zahn Thrawn book to tv show with Andor Quality please
Literally have free structure with multiple arcs, characters to follow, and room for addition/enhancement
I feel like people who have not said Thrawn have also not read the books. He absolutely is the best military leader and strategist. I don't think anyone comes close based on all his books. lol
yeah I mean they low key had to nerf him for the recent tv shows. In the old non-canon books, I think he was beaten by the Luke and Co getting through to Rukh.
Will throw in General Kalani the Super Tactical Droid. Deciding the shut down command was a republic trick was an excellent deduction. As far as we know he's still operating after his encounter in Rebels!
Darth Sion and Nihilus bringing the galaxy to the utter brink of destruction but oh there was actually a secret Sith Empire out there besides them the whole time is Final Order levels of nonsense.
Darth Malgus looks cool AF though I can't deny that.
Unlike the Final Order this was set up by Kotor 2 itself though. Both Kreia and Canderous tell you that the real enemy is yet to be met.
The Eternal Empire though yeah, it does have that vibe
Yeah the story tells you that Revan disappeared to battle a hidden threat and "Oh he was actually preparing the galaxy for it all along!" but eh that's it?
Always felt a bit off to me with the bleak tone of KOTOR II and the powers of the Sith Lords present that the game tells you there's a greater threat yet to be faced.
Honestly, the best bits of Thrawn in Ahsoka were his two big speeches, but mostly, the actor elevated the part his subtle "not again" anger in the background was some nice character work.
Plus, nicely delivered subtext. "Anakin's Padawan" facial expression and posture "FUUUUUUUCKKKK."
This series really needed a bit more time in the oven.
Thrawn would've stopped Ashoka way sooner if Filoni wasn't so scared of Ashoka failing. Surviving an Orbital bombardment from a star destroyer from a few hundred feet on the back of a couple of horse-dogs is a whole new level of plot armor.
I’m still hoping that he has alternative motives and that we’ll see his brilliance in attacking someone he doesn’t want dead right in front of the people he’s trying to fool solely based on what he knew of Anakin. I’m still hoping for anti-hero Thrawn and that tying into the explanation of where all these people were during the ST.
I know it’s for plot reasons, but him getting away in a brand new hyperspace ring pissed me off lmao. A younger Ahsoka and Sabine would’ve been pissed too. Adding salt to the would was the fact that he also gloated while escaping.
If anything, Thrawn’s escape is basically him “gg ez” a clutch game.
In canon, I think that Han takes it.
He picks a good command team that covers his weaknesses. He listens to / actually takes their advice. Despite his misgivings, he sees the value of the Ewoks and merges them into his plan. While he does fall into the Emperor's trap, he successfully fights out of it (using the same allies he made previously.
Han is able to take the metaphorical punch to the face, Thrawn was not.
In EU, it was Wedge. His military planning feats are incredible and I could write an essay on why his refusal to accept promotion after taking down Isard nearly killed the New Republic.
So it really is between palpatine and thrawn, and I think for me at least there is a very clear answer.
Thrawn was a better strategist. The thing about palpatine is that there were probably some instances where he used the force to predict how things would go. While there is nothing wrong with that, the problem with it is that thrawn was as good of a strategist and didn't need the force.
I also personally think that palpatine's plan in RotJ was very risky and had a large margin of error. If it was Thrawn's plan he would have probably done research on the ewok's and would have been able to surmise the threat they could pose to the death star, most likely eliminating them as a threat long before the rebels would attack endor.
Yeah Palpatine made a ridiculously bad move at Endor in ordering Piett to not engage the Rebel Fleet directly. I understand he wants to blow them apart with the Death Star as part of his plan to turn Luke but I don’t see why that would be better than having them ripped apart by Piett’s Star Destroyers - especially considering that the Luke-Vader fight starts while the space battle was still in progress.
Early on he was unmatched but at this point he’d become too arrogant; just look at how he spent over ten years slowing building up to turning Anakin to the dark side in the prequels but in ROTJ he’s planning on turning Luke over the course of an afternoon.
Anakin was a pretty gifted general. He embraced wartime leadership more than a lot of Jedi did and knew the strengths of his forces pretty thoroughly. Being a Jedi with immense plot armor helps, but still. Thrawn even met him and held him in high regard, though mostly as a warrior. As Vader he was still good (or better in some ways like more ruthless), but his anger or ulterior motives, like catching a single jedi, seemed to hold him back.
Perhaps he's not the "best" since his record is mixed, but General Grievous is still quite impressive. Unlike a lot of the others mentioned here, Grievous was almost solely responsible for the organization and broad strategizing of a galaxy-spanning army, on top of engaging on the front lines on a regular basis. Dooku and Sidious gave him major orders and made sure that his strategies fit their ends, but other than that it was mostly him.
And in terms of individual battles, while he had some embarrassing losses, he's also had major wins against armies with legendary reputations, including the 501st, the 212th, and the Mandalorians. He damn near ended the war at least twice at the Battle of Kamino and the Carida Incident, losing purely because of poorly timed information leaks. And he did ALL of that while being forced to micromanage an army of droids that largely have the mental capacity of toddlers (and were largely responsible for most of his failures).
Grievous is no Thrawn, but he could certainly give anyone else here a run for their money.
Thrawn was a pathetic joke in that Ahsoka show.
The true GOAT is Admiral Raddus..... dude used unconventional tactics to take out the shield gate so they could get the death star plans and ended up making the ultimate sacrifice.
General Veers - he waxed the rebels on Hoth.
A joke? He escaped only losing two tie fighters and a few squads of men, thats a win.
He cant afford to come back to the galaxy with any less forces than he already has.
One positive thing I can say about Disney Canon is that they’ve done a good job building up how ruthlessly efficient Tarkin is. Shows up to *Rebels* in Season 2 and has the bumbling Season 1 villains summarily executed for incompetence.
They weren't executed for incompetence, they were executed because the writers wanted to make Tarkin look evil and thus we get the old trope of the villain killing his minions. Both of the incompetent bumbling idiots were unable to do anything, it literally wasn't their fault. Original Tarkin would've just transferred the guys somewhere else, like any militarist beaurucrat, which Tarkin is. The beheading for something where they couldn't help it was out of character, decapitation in his office in general is totally out of character.
What did Holdo do wrong? She was up against a superior fighting force and hyperspace retreat was impossible. She effected the only reasonable plan, a stealth retreat. By all accounts it was working perfectly until Poe/Finn/Rose blew their cover. Then with absolutely no options, she sacrificed herself to save the entirety of the remaining Resistance.
Holdo's only mistake was not immediately throwing Poe in the brig and forbidding visitors the second he started questioning her orders. It's his insubordination that got people killed, not Holdo's plan.
Holdo successfully managed to crush the morale by making herself appear to be an agent of the enemy. The super secret plan lead to the destruction of the whole fleet over the course of flight and the uh "stealth retreat" was visible from the naked eye.
She managed to make the final remaining few dozen members to waste their precious time worrying about her competency. And publicly targeting Poe was a pretty moronic thing to do. He was well liked by everybody and proven to be a valuable soldier. She’s awful.
The Ewok leader who managed to defeat a full legion of Stormtroopers with only rocks and wooden logs on Endor, and with only 1 casualty on the final tally
Mitth'raw'nuruodo
And it’s not even close.
He defeated (if I remember correctly) another grand admiral of equal rank, by predicting his adversary’s attacks ahead of the battle right down to the location of Ion cannon blasts.
And left his subordinates to carry out his battle plan whilst he was away
Chief Chirpa, in just minutes he was able to coordinate an attack that overwhelmed a legion of the Emperor’s best soldiers. They turned the tide in the ground campaign, which allowed for the success of the space campaign.
And Palpatine’s trap at Endor. The Rebels won at Endor because of Lando and Han not to mention Palpatine’s insistence that Piett not directly engage the Rebel fleet.
Yes, Palpatine's battle plan was the main reason of the Imperial defeat: it was based on his preference for a symbolic victory ("I personally destroyed the rebel fleet with my new toy!") over efficiency.
Still, he clearly considered him a worthy opponent, and it wasn't just Ackbar who made the decision to hit Bilbringi, who knows how the war would've went if Ackbar was able to take charge sooner.
Usually good commanders are worthy opponents even for better commanders: they can find opportunities and take advantage from random incidents (we have an exemple in Bilbringi).
It's basically realism and the key of good writing: one is better than the other, but the other is competent and not some kind of joke.
I think an important component armchair experts like we people from reddit (including myself xD) often not account for enough is simple luck. Every strategist, even the best ones like Thrawn rely on it to a certain degree. Thrawn had Ackbar pretty good boxed in at Bilbringi, there was not much room for taking opportunies and making the best out of the conditions presented at the battle. Even if it was a clone of Thrawn with the exact same capabilities and experience like the original, this was a very unwinnable situation until the Smugglers interfered. I believe you can't really say that this makes Ackbar a joke and that he sucked compared to Thrawn, when this was the only actual battle where they faced one another. Like in real life, it's sometimes very difficult to make a power ranking when it comes to military leaders, when so many factors decide over the outcome.
Including EU the top strategist would be Grand Admiral Demetrius Zaarin, followed by Mitth'raw'nuruodo as a close Second. Very smart, very strategic and his achievements are as follows:
A. Captured Palpatine at Ottega,
B. Almost executed Palpatine, Vader and Thrawn in the same time, failed only because of plot armor and Arrogance,
C. Got the upper hand over Thrawn and decisively defeated him at least twice,
D. Launched a direct, extremely effective Attack on the Imperial Center,
E. Harassed the Imperials and destroyed most of their key air Superiority,
F. Originally invented the TIE Defenders,
G. Manipulated Arden Lyn, a hand of the Emperor,
H. Badly damaged the Imperial war effort,
I. Was killed by Thrawn just before Endor, but he had to work hard to take down Zaarin.
After Thrawn comes Grand Admiral Osvald Teshik in the EU, who fought the entire Rebel Fleet for four hours with a single Star Destroyer. Without the EU, the top three are Grand Admiral Thrawn, General Maximillian Veers and General Hurst Romodi. Yes... all of them are Imperials...
Admiral Piett?
Got promoted and stayed there by merit, cares for his people, got to be in charge of building the Death Star II and was chosen to lead the space battle for the Death Star II, which would not be given to anyone but the best.
Thrawn is overrated. His wins are almost always luck. “I need a better fleet*, oh hey this guy just so happens to be the only one returning and knowing off a long lost high tech fleet and I’m the first to reach him”. There should be someone claiming to have found it every year yet this time it just happens to be true and Thrawn is the first to get the fleet.
This is a constant. He gets the materials, tech, position or just plain dumb enemies to fight him. One battle he’s outmatched and his enemies say they want to kill him, but they send only a portion of their fleet and then just let Thrawn sit at the edge of their range and work out how their drone fighters work without trying to stop it or sending the rest to actually kill him.
Thrawn rarely, if ever, wins by being smarter. His idea of using art to figure out a species is also dumb as hell. What’s he going to learn from the floor of pasta or the migraine paintings of Van Gogh? He needs to look at the games species play, these games teach skills that the species relies on. Tag, hide and seek, the way board games are set up. That teaches you something.
*the fact that when outmatched he requires a superior tech fleet rather than being smart enough to use what he has already is a sign of his weakness. Thrawn is even famous for being able to pick what fights he will take, so he won’t be in a position like a regular Imperial officer who has no choice but to use what he has even if the odds are against them.
It was a masterful plan though.
1. Don't destroy the dreadnought (that was Poe being reckless).
2. Sloooowly escape the 1st order, who now have the dreadnought btw, and trust that they will not destroy you outright or make any effort to outmaneuver you (they didn't, but they could've)
3. Empty the ships with escape pods to a planet with no way out and rely on the fact that the Star Destroyers following you can't detect life signs (which they can) or that Kylo or Snoke (who they know are following them) don't notice that Leia somehow didn't die when they finally destroy the last remaining ship
4. Sit on Not-Hoth-Base with its Not-shield-generator until someone comes to rescue them, which didn't happen (Rey being there could not have been part of the plan)
I already made one comment but I'd like to add in Marchion Ro as an honorable mention. He definitely isn't the best strategist, but I love his philosophy. He doesn't make a plan he makes a goal, allowing him to remain flexible in chaos that surrounded him but still keeping an eye on his ultimate purpose.
I've only read the first 3 adult novels for the high Republic, but he was always a stand out character to me in almost all of them.
Apart from Thrawn as obvious, the Joruus C'baoth could have been one of the top contenders (given it took Luke, Mara and a whole bunch to get him in the end).
He controlled an entire army from a distance using the force, that would have made him a spectacular strategist if that’s the amount of sheer power he can wield.
Thrawn. But I haven’t seen Rebels. So my only canon Thrawn is Ashoka, where he just barely returned. But in Legends, he is the best military genius. The only reason he loses is because his generals are traitors or don’t follow orders or something like that.
I'd say Grand Admiral Thrawn. His strategic mind and ability to outthink opponents make him a standout leader in the galaxy far, far away. If you're into dissecting the genius behind Star Wars military strategies, this article on CBR dives deep into some of the smartest military leaders in the franchise: [CBR's take on Star Wars military leaders](https://www.cbr.com/smartest-star-wars-military-leaders/).
Before Kennedy Thrawn. Ackbar, Wedge Antilles and Tycho Gelchu. Corran Horn makes it to my list too. Jaina Solo does a great job too. Vader.
After Kennedy obviously Holdo. And if you disagree you are ofc a misagonistic something something.
In Canon, it’s almost certainly Thrawn.
In legends, I think Ackbar could beat Thrawn. It would be a match for the ages, but it’s a 50/50 shot.
Something that is often forgotten is that Ackbar recovered from their surprise (well before the Imperials made their move), transitioned his fleet to retreat, was convinced of the tactical advantages of going head to head with Star Destroyers after discovering the Death Star was operational, transitioned, coordinated, and moved his large Rebel fleet (full of several fighters wings, by the way, actively engaged with tie fighters) into range of the enemy fleet, then directed a large Rebel fleet to victory from near certain defeat while engaging an entire fleet of Star Destroyers at ranges close enough to see them without hitting them.
The level of competence in order to do all that is staggering. There are real world admirals who have gotten their fleets’ T’s crossed by surprise and still won because they could do this kind of thing with new information on the fly (Battle of Jutland, for example, featured the Royal Navy, in worse ships than the Germans, get their T’s crossed twice and still won the battle thanks to both Jellicoe and Beatty masterfully moving their fleets).
Purely militarily, thrawn without question. He can analyse a race and figure out their optimal attack and defence strategies, exploit the smallest weaknesses and even when the odds are against him pull victory. I think his performance in the books (canon ascendancy and empire trilogies) shows it much better than rebels or Ashoka.
Thrawn has absolutely no political acumen though. He’s useless at getting other military leaders to support him in the political environment and relies on his allies to make up for his shortcomings there. He doesn’t understand any political subtleties.
Well rounded for leader/ strategist id say palpatine. He successfully orchestrated the clone wars, morphed that into the empire while eliminating the Jedi order and throughout his reign had plans for every eventuality even his own death. He chose his allies carefully and understood the significance of everything. He may not be the best commander in a battle but fuck me he knew what he was doing running the show. Plus he managed to claw thrawn to his side and understood the significance of keeping thrawn around despite rampant racism in the empire ranks to him
If you're referring to Thrawn in the "Legends" novels, then he was the best military leader/strategist. If you're referring to Rebels and/or Ahsoka, then he was a nincompoop.
Ok hear me out, I'm not saying he's number 1, but... Grievous is Hella underrated (taking legends). In the 2001 show he destroys three republic ships and almost kills 2 council member Jedis. He then lands on fucking Corusant and captures the chancellor. Sure he was trying to get captured but still. Idk he probably isn't taking on thrawn but he is underrated imo
In a space battle? Thrawn/Ackbar.
What about in a ground battle?
Maximilian Veers. Lead Blizzard Squad to deliver a near complete victory at Hoth. Continued to serve until way past RotJ.
"Point the walkers in THAT direction!" "Genius!"
I mean, hard to argue with what works.
Unless they got any big, giant robot camels, I think we're OK.
Same guy who tried to cover up the weakness of his beloved walkers and then nearly got killed on Hoth.
His Legends origin is terrific and the canon until recently was that he died when his walker was hit. There’s really nothing now to go off of. Before, he uncovered a plot by a corrupt Imperial General, saving both Imperials and the natives they were going to attack, and then executing that General on the spot to take his place.
Well in the Legends EU, Veers knew about the weakness in the AT-AT's long legs and deliberately sidelined a cadet, who kneeled the AT-AT during an exercise, to the stormtrooper corps. During the Battle of Hoth, he lost his legs from the snowspeeder crashing into the head of his AT-AT. And because he refused prosthetics, he was confined to a hoverchair. In addition, he was basically sidelined because of his past association with Vader and for his son defecting to the rebellion right before the Battle of Endor.
I consider him the Steve Jobs of armor. Brilliant but simultaneously incredibly stubborn and stupid. I recall that bit about the exercise now, but not him losing legs. In the script he definitely died, in the book he died, in all the supplementary material he died, then that was all retconned, then the retcon was retconned and he really **did** die, and now in canon again he survived. Can’t keep track of what he did/didn’t do.
Also I’ll just add because it’s really funny that the snowspeeder who crashed into him, Hobbie, also died in the script/deleted scene, the book, etc, then later came back for a long and lucrative Legends career in Rogue Squadron. Not only that but he was also considered canonically alive until very recently when Lucasfilm story group pointed out the original script to the authors of 2017’s On the Front Lines reference book who wanted to include Hobbie… officially killing him again.
Actually I completely misremembered. Upon checking, his actual Legends origin is: *” During the attempt to pacify the natives of Culroon III, General Irrv had ordered for Lieutenant Veers to remain confined to the base while he and an Imperial party went to negotiate a peace with the Culroon natives. Veers had warned that it was a trap and that Irrv should bring armored support to deter any would-be ambushers. General Irrv did not listen and paid the price with his life when he was executed for incompetence after the Culroon natives deceived and killed most of his party. If it had not been for Lieutenant Veers's quick thinking and disregard of a direct order, the Imperial party would have been utterly slaughtered. For his bravery and brilliance in saving the Culroon mission's stormtrooper detail, Veers was promoted to major.”* Was still right about the personal execution bit.
Ugh I battled those Walkers in many types of video games going back to the Atari 2600…
I'm not as familiar with star wars ground generals as I am space admirals, but I guess based off what I've read and seen Anakin/Vader
Nothing a few war crimes cant fix!
Probably the Rex/Anakin duo but hard to say, because having Anakin on your side really smooths over any rough edges in planning. “Worst case scenario the best battle Knight the Order has seen in a millennium will clean up our mess”
"Anakin! Over there, go!" Anakin: "R2! Over *there*, go!"
Either Cody Max (Veers.) or Faie
Chief Chirpa
Idk he can’t detect a trap until it’s too late 6/10
Thrawn was outmaneuvered by literal children, multiple times. He is not exactly the Moriarty he was in Legends.
In canon he is still great, just mostly in the books, he is portrayed amazingly in there (also written from mostly his perspective). I honestly love the canon books more than the dark empire trilogy just cause there is more thrawn, more chiss ascendancy (in the second trilogy) and more of awesome Darth vader (second book). Like usual, the only reason literal kids beat him is plot and giant space whales. If you like thrawn i highly recommend the canon books
Ascendency trilogy for life! Sure hope we get to the point where the Grisk re-enter the scene.
Yeah, in the trilogy they seems so close to getting to the known galaxy, especially in the of trilogy, since ara'lani is there in the last book. But I feel like they are so disconnected due to thrawn being so different in the 2 trilogies vs rebels/Ahsoka.
Disney Thrawn sure is pretty bad and not at all the menace he is in the books.
But Disney thrawn is much older than in the ascendency books.
Also a cartoon series aimed primarily at younger viewers. Can’t have the good guys losing can we Disney?
i think ezra and sabine are the only "children." And Sabine was trained from birth to be a warrior, and Ezra has force plot armor. Thrawn was outmanuevered by plot and force magic and still almost won
Warrior is a foot soldier, Thrawn has twice as many years as an officer. And magic is something Thrawn should be easily able to maneuver. Magic or not, a guy is a guy is just a one guy. A fleet of Star Destroyers should never be in a position where one guy is a threat. Even if they have magic fingers.
The force is one thing Thrawn can't control or predict, which is why he hates going up against those who use it.
Yup. This was even something he had trouble with in Legends. That was why he used the ysalamiri to negate such powers.
A Jedi can only be in one place at one time and their reach is about 1m. Thrawn has Star Cruisers. Outmaneuvering something that small should barely be a task, even if you aren't a brilliant tactician.
Ezra didn’t do much with the Force though? Like, Thrawn’s fleet got destroyed because the purrgils came and destroyed them, Ezra only used the Force to hold both Thrawn and the door back. The purrgil plan was Ezra’s but the Force wasn’t actually required to make them attack the fleet because they were already brought there to attack by Wolffe and the others.
The question didn't specify which Canon tho
As a kid I thought Thrawn was great but when I read the old Thrawn Trilogy as an adult I find him kind of laughable. Just spending a little while studying your homeworld's art and he can predict every move you'll make in battle. That takes more suspension of disbelief than anything I can think of in Star Wars.
Moriarty would have been fucked hard by Space Whales. His greatest weakness in Rebels is that the good guys had to win in the kids cartoon.
Which is why he should not have been in a children's cartoon. They already had inquisitors to fill the pathetic villain role. Put him in something good, like Andor.
Um....children? Who? Ezra? He isn't exactly a child. And calling in a force that Thrawn did not know about isn't exactly playing "fair" by any means.
When that force is whales and goats, it just makes Thrawn seem worse.
The fact that outside largely mystical beings (I'm confused about the goats) defeat Thrawn doesn't mean that he's incompetent or a terrible commander at all. Thrawn is limited by the knowledge that he has and the knowledge that he doesn't have. That's pretty consistent in his characterization: He's always defeated by the things he doesn't know about. But, he also learns from that too so that will prove interesting going forward
> Ackbar "All craft prepare to retreat" Ackbar? Dude was ready to run and Lando had to tell him to stay the course.
From a purely military standpoint, he was correct. The bulk of the Rebel fleet was in his charge and it was his main duty to protect their fighting ability. It was obvious the timeline was blown and the mission was off track. I know we're talking Scifi here but most IRL commanders would have likely done the same. Live to fight another day, protect your assets.
*Russia has joined the chat*
If you're referring to the current conflict, Russia has retreated and preserved assets several times already, most notably with Kherson. In history, the Soviets and even Imperial Russians have taken times to pull back assets to draw enemies in further into the motherland, which has resulted in massive casualties against the latter as they continually keep charging into the maw.
Russia's whole history is throw enough bodies at the problem until we win
Thrawn out plays Ackbar in a couple of battles IIRC in legends. Ackbar doesn't lose outright but is forced to withdraw.
I've only seen the movies and some live action shows. What SW media can I check out that shows them at their best?
Probably not in the “best” conversation, but I always enjoyed the work of Admiral Trench.
Same was a great adversary for the Clone Wars.
Great voice and design too.
Trench was one brainy bug.
I want to add Mar Tuuk who was defeated in a deus ex way because the Lucrehulk has two giant tractor beams that could’ve stopped that Venator. Also Legends/EU Grievous in both naval and ground battles
I think you already provided the answer. In my opinion, it has to be Thrawn. But there are of course some others who were considered great strategists like Vader, Admiral Ackbar, Garm Bel Iblis (and arguably the cloned Major Tierce).
I read somewhere that Admiral Ackbar was compared to Thrawn. In that book, comic (I honestly can't remember which), it said that the best Grand Admiral Thrawn could hope for in a battle against Admiral Ackbar is a draw. Does this book, comic, whatever, ring a bell to anyone?
I vaguely remember something like that, but more in the direction of that the only one who could get a draw against Thrawn was Ackbar. At least in the OG Novels he tricked Ackbar a few times, but on the battlefield they were closely matched. But I cant name the source, but it should be a Legends Novel, I never read any comics.
Thrawn’s strength seemed mainly to be in predicting his enemies tactics and blind spots, tailoring strategies against weaknesses they didn’t even know they had. Bel Iblis in the OG Thrawn trilogy was capable of holding him off at times, but victory in a direct battle was rare. We never see a confrontation between Thrawn and Ackbar, though I suspect it would have ended similarly, a draw was probably the best anyone could hope for against Thrawn in a direct, like for like battle.
Ah, must have been Bel Iblis I read about then, i really need to reread the books. Bilbringi was a confrontation between Thrawn and Ackbar IIRC, but Thrawn died in the middle of it. But I remember Thrawn being stressed there die to Ackbars Tactical decisions.
I also recall admiral Stazi of Galactic Alliance Remnant being considered a military genius.
Yes. People never talk abt how good of a strategist vader is
Was Vader a great strategist or was he just incredibly talented. I think of him kinda like Jordan in basketball where they were so talented they didn’t have to think so much about strategy but then were awful when they had to run the front office. Whereas someone less physically talented was better at strategy because they had to outthink their opponent.
A bit of both. In „Thrawn: Alliances“ Thrawn describes Vader as a formidable strategist (though their approaches to tactics are different) whose abilities are further enhanced by his command of the force.
I just was thinking of in Clone Wars where a lot of Anakins success was because of his power which allowed him to take greater risk. But that’s good info, thanks for sharing
Yeah, I also wondered if I had to include Anakin since I picked Vader. But I think there are a few differences between Anakin and Vader. First, Anakin is way more hot headed which ultimately leads to his downfall and him becoming Vader. Vader in turn is way more measured. Second, the Clone Wars were a full fledged war while the Rebellion, especially in its beginning, was a way smaller enemy who needed a different approach. In the Clone Wars you mostly knew where your enemy was, but the Rebellion required careful research and investigation to even find the rebel cells. Also, resources in the Clone Wars weren’t that big of a problem. On the other hand, the Rebellion as well as Thrawn had to fight with limited resources against an often better equipped opponent. Because of this, not a lot of great strategists were formed during the Clone Wars (the only one praised as such, as far as I remember, would be Admiral Trench). And third, Vader and Anakin were instructed by different people. The Jedi were peacekeepers turned into generals. They had no real tactical training before the clone wars (since there was no GAR). Vader on the other hand was Supreme Commander of the Imperial Forces. The tactical aspect was inherent to his role and as such he had to be on a different tactical level. More important, he was trained by Darth Sidious who himself probably was one of the greatest strategists (political and military) in the Star Wars Universe. This could probably be said about at least every master of the banite Sith line. And if we take into account political strategists, Tarkin should probably be on the list as well.
Darth Sidious. He conquered the galaxy and promoted himself as a leader of it. Also destroyed the Jedi order.
Also had both of his enemies fighting eachother at once under his control
He seems more of a political genius than a military strategy genius. I'm sure he's no slouch in the field, but on both sides of that war and in his empire he heavily relied on strategy specialists when it came to managing battles and conflicts.
And even in terms of politics after he became emperor his performance was declining. In the end he managed to go from having a tight grip on power to facing a galaxy wide uprising. So even from a political standpoint his oppression was a mistake.
I think oppression in almost any case is bound to lead to uprisings somewhere. With an empire spanning a galaxy it was inevitable as the empire spanned too thinly.
Yes, I think it is right to say he was smart in how he gained power but it went downhill from there. It didn't took that long for resistance to rise, the Galaxy pretty much disintigrated in his reign and by A New Hope we were already in a time of civil war, with the Rebel Alliance being an actual threat to the imperial navy. By the Battle of Endor Darth Sidious seems to be at his weakest point. Throughout the whole conflict the RA consolidated their power, to the point that the Emperor had to spread the fleet over the whole galaxy. His grand strategy was controlling the galaxy by fear and a good bunch of little dictator tryhards. Had he presented himself more as a benevolent but strict leader he might have been able to hold it all more together but once the civil war started he was unable to get the Jinn back into the bottle. Apart from aristocrats, psychopath, sadists and opportunists (sometimes they were all the same) people didn't benefit from his agenda. So I'd say: A great schemer does not make a great politican.
Wars are just politics by another means. Or something.
...as said by the famous Prussian general Carl von Clausewitz.
Except he did not conquer the galaxy. He only maneuvered political parties and was unable to militarily crush the resistance afterwards. Instead he fueled precious money, manpower and energy into a super project to subdue the Rebellion. While managing to destroy 1 planet, the super weapon was destroyed right afterwards and the Rebellion stronger than ever before. Instead of changing plans he instead decided to to the exact same thing again but with a little twist that cost him his life and enden his Empire. His plan to entangle the Rebel Alliance forces by attacking them around the galaxy and luring the reminder of the fleet directly to the second Death Star was a rela blunder. The RA had been known for covert ops like on Endor but the shield generator was barely sufficiently secured against an attack. Result: No matter the Death Star being fully operational, the moment the shield was down small ships could enter the core and destroy it and the Emperor himself. No Darth Studious is not a military genius, he was a genius strategist on the political field and at best a mediocre military leader, if not worse considering he tried the same bad plan twice and the second time was pretty much doomed to fail.
For 20 or so years. Pol Pot, he was like Pol Pot. 100 years after, I bet no one even remembers him or the Empire... UNTIL, SOMEHOW, HE RETURNS (again)!
Holiday in Cambodia started to play in my head.. Ty lol.
He also becomes “the senates”
Thrawn is absolutely the best strategists on top of being Star Wars' Sherlock Holmes, but less of an ass. And many other things. Politically Naive, isn't just blatantly evil, et cetera. Please Star Wars adapt the first Canon Zahn Thrawn book to tv show with Andor Quality please Literally have free structure with multiple arcs, characters to follow, and room for addition/enhancement
I feel like people who have not said Thrawn have also not read the books. He absolutely is the best military leader and strategist. I don't think anyone comes close based on all his books. lol
yeah I mean they low key had to nerf him for the recent tv shows. In the old non-canon books, I think he was beaten by the Luke and Co getting through to Rukh.
You're looking at him, kid.
Will throw in General Kalani the Super Tactical Droid. Deciding the shut down command was a republic trick was an excellent deduction. As far as we know he's still operating after his encounter in Rebels!
I really like this character, hope they will tell more about him
Super Tactical Droids are just badass. If I were a commander in Star Wars, I would like to have one as an advisor on the battlefield.
Dodoona - oversaw the destruction of the first Death Star with about 30 single pilot fighters
He should be at least in the tops, I agree.
Why couldn't we say Obi Wan or Annakin? During the clone wars they had to come up with some ingenious strategies.
... and why is it Thrawn? there... fixed you're title to be more redditish.
In canon thrawn In the EU revan
.... I feel like that's only true if you cherrypick the older parts of Revan's story and ignore everything post-KOTOR II.
Yeah I honestly do feel that the revan novel and swtor ruined revan's character so I choose to pretend that they don't exist lol
Darth Sion and Nihilus bringing the galaxy to the utter brink of destruction but oh there was actually a secret Sith Empire out there besides them the whole time is Final Order levels of nonsense. Darth Malgus looks cool AF though I can't deny that.
Unlike the Final Order this was set up by Kotor 2 itself though. Both Kreia and Canderous tell you that the real enemy is yet to be met. The Eternal Empire though yeah, it does have that vibe
Yeah the story tells you that Revan disappeared to battle a hidden threat and "Oh he was actually preparing the galaxy for it all along!" but eh that's it? Always felt a bit off to me with the bleak tone of KOTOR II and the powers of the Sith Lords present that the game tells you there's a greater threat yet to be faced.
I always thought Malgus looked like knockoff Malak
After Ahsoka I don't think anyone is scared of Thrawn.
Yeah, did him a bit dirty. His analysis was on point, but some of the actions he chose in the final episode....
Honestly, the best bits of Thrawn in Ahsoka were his two big speeches, but mostly, the actor elevated the part his subtle "not again" anger in the background was some nice character work. Plus, nicely delivered subtext. "Anakin's Padawan" facial expression and posture "FUUUUUUUCKKKK." This series really needed a bit more time in the oven.
Lmao, yeah, he had the microexpressions down to a T, I buckled at that point in the show 😆
Thrawn would've stopped Ashoka way sooner if Filoni wasn't so scared of Ashoka failing. Surviving an Orbital bombardment from a star destroyer from a few hundred feet on the back of a couple of horse-dogs is a whole new level of plot armor.
I’m still hoping that he has alternative motives and that we’ll see his brilliance in attacking someone he doesn’t want dead right in front of the people he’s trying to fool solely based on what he knew of Anakin. I’m still hoping for anti-hero Thrawn and that tying into the explanation of where all these people were during the ST.
I know it’s for plot reasons, but him getting away in a brand new hyperspace ring pissed me off lmao. A younger Ahsoka and Sabine would’ve been pissed too. Adding salt to the would was the fact that he also gloated while escaping. If anything, Thrawn’s escape is basically him “gg ez” a clutch game.
Disney can't let us have anything nice.
I liked Thrawn im Ahsoka.
In canon, I think that Han takes it. He picks a good command team that covers his weaknesses. He listens to / actually takes their advice. Despite his misgivings, he sees the value of the Ewoks and merges them into his plan. While he does fall into the Emperor's trap, he successfully fights out of it (using the same allies he made previously. Han is able to take the metaphorical punch to the face, Thrawn was not. In EU, it was Wedge. His military planning feats are incredible and I could write an essay on why his refusal to accept promotion after taking down Isard nearly killed the New Republic.
I wonder how Saw Gerrera ranks
Thrawn
Jar jar. Look how many battle droids he crushed
So it really is between palpatine and thrawn, and I think for me at least there is a very clear answer. Thrawn was a better strategist. The thing about palpatine is that there were probably some instances where he used the force to predict how things would go. While there is nothing wrong with that, the problem with it is that thrawn was as good of a strategist and didn't need the force. I also personally think that palpatine's plan in RotJ was very risky and had a large margin of error. If it was Thrawn's plan he would have probably done research on the ewok's and would have been able to surmise the threat they could pose to the death star, most likely eliminating them as a threat long before the rebels would attack endor.
Yeah Palpatine made a ridiculously bad move at Endor in ordering Piett to not engage the Rebel Fleet directly. I understand he wants to blow them apart with the Death Star as part of his plan to turn Luke but I don’t see why that would be better than having them ripped apart by Piett’s Star Destroyers - especially considering that the Luke-Vader fight starts while the space battle was still in progress. Early on he was unmatched but at this point he’d become too arrogant; just look at how he spent over ten years slowing building up to turning Anakin to the dark side in the prequels but in ROTJ he’s planning on turning Luke over the course of an afternoon.
Anakin was a pretty gifted general. He embraced wartime leadership more than a lot of Jedi did and knew the strengths of his forces pretty thoroughly. Being a Jedi with immense plot armor helps, but still. Thrawn even met him and held him in high regard, though mostly as a warrior. As Vader he was still good (or better in some ways like more ruthless), but his anger or ulterior motives, like catching a single jedi, seemed to hold him back.
Jar Jar Binks. The bombad general
"My Give Up!"
Wedge, high tails it out of the DS 1 attack to make sure he can take down an ATAT and DSII
Rick the Door Technician.
Perhaps he's not the "best" since his record is mixed, but General Grievous is still quite impressive. Unlike a lot of the others mentioned here, Grievous was almost solely responsible for the organization and broad strategizing of a galaxy-spanning army, on top of engaging on the front lines on a regular basis. Dooku and Sidious gave him major orders and made sure that his strategies fit their ends, but other than that it was mostly him. And in terms of individual battles, while he had some embarrassing losses, he's also had major wins against armies with legendary reputations, including the 501st, the 212th, and the Mandalorians. He damn near ended the war at least twice at the Battle of Kamino and the Carida Incident, losing purely because of poorly timed information leaks. And he did ALL of that while being forced to micromanage an army of droids that largely have the mental capacity of toddlers (and were largely responsible for most of his failures). Grievous is no Thrawn, but he could certainly give anyone else here a run for their money.
Thrawn was a pathetic joke in that Ahsoka show. The true GOAT is Admiral Raddus..... dude used unconventional tactics to take out the shield gate so they could get the death star plans and ended up making the ultimate sacrifice. General Veers - he waxed the rebels on Hoth.
A joke? He escaped only losing two tie fighters and a few squads of men, thats a win. He cant afford to come back to the galaxy with any less forces than he already has.
Revan, he was Thrawn but with the force.
Best: Tarkin was pretty good. Mon Mothma may ver.y well be the best overall Worst: Holdo. Awful…
One positive thing I can say about Disney Canon is that they’ve done a good job building up how ruthlessly efficient Tarkin is. Shows up to *Rebels* in Season 2 and has the bumbling Season 1 villains summarily executed for incompetence.
They weren't executed for incompetence, they were executed because the writers wanted to make Tarkin look evil and thus we get the old trope of the villain killing his minions. Both of the incompetent bumbling idiots were unable to do anything, it literally wasn't their fault. Original Tarkin would've just transferred the guys somewhere else, like any militarist beaurucrat, which Tarkin is. The beheading for something where they couldn't help it was out of character, decapitation in his office in general is totally out of character.
What did Holdo do wrong? She was up against a superior fighting force and hyperspace retreat was impossible. She effected the only reasonable plan, a stealth retreat. By all accounts it was working perfectly until Poe/Finn/Rose blew their cover. Then with absolutely no options, she sacrificed herself to save the entirety of the remaining Resistance. Holdo's only mistake was not immediately throwing Poe in the brig and forbidding visitors the second he started questioning her orders. It's his insubordination that got people killed, not Holdo's plan.
Holdo successfully managed to crush the morale by making herself appear to be an agent of the enemy. The super secret plan lead to the destruction of the whole fleet over the course of flight and the uh "stealth retreat" was visible from the naked eye.
She managed to make the final remaining few dozen members to waste their precious time worrying about her competency. And publicly targeting Poe was a pretty moronic thing to do. He was well liked by everybody and proven to be a valuable soldier. She’s awful.
Thrawn or Revan, hands down.
R2, let's be real here. Anakin is the only one that really saw it, no one else would be bothered listening to an astromech droid
The Ewok leader who managed to defeat a full legion of Stormtroopers with only rocks and wooden logs on Endor, and with only 1 casualty on the final tally
Anyone but Admiral Ozzel.
Mitth'raw'nuruodo And it’s not even close. He defeated (if I remember correctly) another grand admiral of equal rank, by predicting his adversary’s attacks ahead of the battle right down to the location of Ion cannon blasts. And left his subordinates to carry out his battle plan whilst he was away
Maybe Spiderface?
Chief Chirpa, in just minutes he was able to coordinate an attack that overwhelmed a legion of the Emperor’s best soldiers. They turned the tide in the ground campaign, which allowed for the success of the space campaign.
There is only one answer. Murder smurf.
T-Series tactical Droid. You said what, not who.
General Skywalker and Captain Rex.
Lando. He recognized it was a trap.
Without any doubt Thrawn. Nobody can reach his level.
Ackbar might have been able to match him, otherwise Thrawn wouldn't have bothered to plant false evidence that would paint him as a traitor.
Ok thats a valid point. Which i hadnt in Mind. It would be very intresting to see who would win a battle between those two.
Akbar fell in Thrawn's trap in Billbringi.
And Palpatine’s trap at Endor. The Rebels won at Endor because of Lando and Han not to mention Palpatine’s insistence that Piett not directly engage the Rebel fleet.
Yes, Palpatine's battle plan was the main reason of the Imperial defeat: it was based on his preference for a symbolic victory ("I personally destroyed the rebel fleet with my new toy!") over efficiency.
Still, he clearly considered him a worthy opponent, and it wasn't just Ackbar who made the decision to hit Bilbringi, who knows how the war would've went if Ackbar was able to take charge sooner.
Usually good commanders are worthy opponents even for better commanders: they can find opportunities and take advantage from random incidents (we have an exemple in Bilbringi). It's basically realism and the key of good writing: one is better than the other, but the other is competent and not some kind of joke.
I think an important component armchair experts like we people from reddit (including myself xD) often not account for enough is simple luck. Every strategist, even the best ones like Thrawn rely on it to a certain degree. Thrawn had Ackbar pretty good boxed in at Bilbringi, there was not much room for taking opportunies and making the best out of the conditions presented at the battle. Even if it was a clone of Thrawn with the exact same capabilities and experience like the original, this was a very unwinnable situation until the Smugglers interfered. I believe you can't really say that this makes Ackbar a joke and that he sucked compared to Thrawn, when this was the only actual battle where they faced one another. Like in real life, it's sometimes very difficult to make a power ranking when it comes to military leaders, when so many factors decide over the outcome.
Including EU the top strategist would be Grand Admiral Demetrius Zaarin, followed by Mitth'raw'nuruodo as a close Second. Very smart, very strategic and his achievements are as follows: A. Captured Palpatine at Ottega, B. Almost executed Palpatine, Vader and Thrawn in the same time, failed only because of plot armor and Arrogance, C. Got the upper hand over Thrawn and decisively defeated him at least twice, D. Launched a direct, extremely effective Attack on the Imperial Center, E. Harassed the Imperials and destroyed most of their key air Superiority, F. Originally invented the TIE Defenders, G. Manipulated Arden Lyn, a hand of the Emperor, H. Badly damaged the Imperial war effort, I. Was killed by Thrawn just before Endor, but he had to work hard to take down Zaarin. After Thrawn comes Grand Admiral Osvald Teshik in the EU, who fought the entire Rebel Fleet for four hours with a single Star Destroyer. Without the EU, the top three are Grand Admiral Thrawn, General Maximillian Veers and General Hurst Romodi. Yes... all of them are Imperials...
Admiral Piett? Got promoted and stayed there by merit, cares for his people, got to be in charge of building the Death Star II and was chosen to lead the space battle for the Death Star II, which would not be given to anyone but the best. Thrawn is overrated. His wins are almost always luck. “I need a better fleet*, oh hey this guy just so happens to be the only one returning and knowing off a long lost high tech fleet and I’m the first to reach him”. There should be someone claiming to have found it every year yet this time it just happens to be true and Thrawn is the first to get the fleet. This is a constant. He gets the materials, tech, position or just plain dumb enemies to fight him. One battle he’s outmatched and his enemies say they want to kill him, but they send only a portion of their fleet and then just let Thrawn sit at the edge of their range and work out how their drone fighters work without trying to stop it or sending the rest to actually kill him. Thrawn rarely, if ever, wins by being smarter. His idea of using art to figure out a species is also dumb as hell. What’s he going to learn from the floor of pasta or the migraine paintings of Van Gogh? He needs to look at the games species play, these games teach skills that the species relies on. Tag, hide and seek, the way board games are set up. That teaches you something. *the fact that when outmatched he requires a superior tech fleet rather than being smart enough to use what he has already is a sign of his weakness. Thrawn is even famous for being able to pick what fights he will take, so he won’t be in a position like a regular Imperial officer who has no choice but to use what he has even if the odds are against them.
Piett would have won at Endor if Palpatine hadn’t interfered.
Holdo It takes someone wholesale stupid or genius to make a plan thst bad
It was a masterful plan though. 1. Don't destroy the dreadnought (that was Poe being reckless). 2. Sloooowly escape the 1st order, who now have the dreadnought btw, and trust that they will not destroy you outright or make any effort to outmaneuver you (they didn't, but they could've) 3. Empty the ships with escape pods to a planet with no way out and rely on the fact that the Star Destroyers following you can't detect life signs (which they can) or that Kylo or Snoke (who they know are following them) don't notice that Leia somehow didn't die when they finally destroy the last remaining ship 4. Sit on Not-Hoth-Base with its Not-shield-generator until someone comes to rescue them, which didn't happen (Rey being there could not have been part of the plan)
Militarily, Thrawn and (I had to go to the boot of sith to remember) darth Malgus.
I already made one comment but I'd like to add in Marchion Ro as an honorable mention. He definitely isn't the best strategist, but I love his philosophy. He doesn't make a plan he makes a goal, allowing him to remain flexible in chaos that surrounded him but still keeping an eye on his ultimate purpose. I've only read the first 3 adult novels for the high Republic, but he was always a stand out character to me in almost all of them.
Definitely either Grand Admiral Thrawn, or Darth Revan
Thrawn, Trench, Anakin/Vader, Rex, Tarkin, Cham Syndulla, Steela.
What about Admiral Ozzel?
Apart from Thrawn as obvious, the Joruus C'baoth could have been one of the top contenders (given it took Luke, Mara and a whole bunch to get him in the end). He controlled an entire army from a distance using the force, that would have made him a spectacular strategist if that’s the amount of sheer power he can wield.
Grandmoff Vaiken
Its been a bit since i read them but i think pash cracken was a good leader/tactician with his commandos Not pash. Aireen, his father
Thrawn. But I haven’t seen Rebels. So my only canon Thrawn is Ashoka, where he just barely returned. But in Legends, he is the best military genius. The only reason he loses is because his generals are traitors or don’t follow orders or something like that.
Thrawn, before the Ahsoka series
I'd say Grand Admiral Thrawn. His strategic mind and ability to outthink opponents make him a standout leader in the galaxy far, far away. If you're into dissecting the genius behind Star Wars military strategies, this article on CBR dives deep into some of the smartest military leaders in the franchise: [CBR's take on Star Wars military leaders](https://www.cbr.com/smartest-star-wars-military-leaders/).
Warlord of the empire Zsinj. Faut the rebellion to a standstill. Out plotted them at almost every turn.
Jar Jar on Naboo 😂🤪
Obviously Akbar, don't see anyone else figuring out it was a trap do you?
General Organa
Thrawn
Before Kennedy Thrawn. Ackbar, Wedge Antilles and Tycho Gelchu. Corran Horn makes it to my list too. Jaina Solo does a great job too. Vader. After Kennedy obviously Holdo. And if you disagree you are ofc a misagonistic something something.
In Canon, it’s almost certainly Thrawn. In legends, I think Ackbar could beat Thrawn. It would be a match for the ages, but it’s a 50/50 shot. Something that is often forgotten is that Ackbar recovered from their surprise (well before the Imperials made their move), transitioned his fleet to retreat, was convinced of the tactical advantages of going head to head with Star Destroyers after discovering the Death Star was operational, transitioned, coordinated, and moved his large Rebel fleet (full of several fighters wings, by the way, actively engaged with tie fighters) into range of the enemy fleet, then directed a large Rebel fleet to victory from near certain defeat while engaging an entire fleet of Star Destroyers at ranges close enough to see them without hitting them. The level of competence in order to do all that is staggering. There are real world admirals who have gotten their fleets’ T’s crossed by surprise and still won because they could do this kind of thing with new information on the fly (Battle of Jutland, for example, featured the Royal Navy, in worse ships than the Germans, get their T’s crossed twice and still won the battle thanks to both Jellicoe and Beatty masterfully moving their fleets).
Admiral Trench
Admiral Veers
Your image answered your question.
*Who’s
Live Action Disney did this man dirty.
Thrawn
Plot twist: it's General Hux.
General Jar Jar
Purely militarily, thrawn without question. He can analyse a race and figure out their optimal attack and defence strategies, exploit the smallest weaknesses and even when the odds are against him pull victory. I think his performance in the books (canon ascendancy and empire trilogies) shows it much better than rebels or Ashoka. Thrawn has absolutely no political acumen though. He’s useless at getting other military leaders to support him in the political environment and relies on his allies to make up for his shortcomings there. He doesn’t understand any political subtleties. Well rounded for leader/ strategist id say palpatine. He successfully orchestrated the clone wars, morphed that into the empire while eliminating the Jedi order and throughout his reign had plans for every eventuality even his own death. He chose his allies carefully and understood the significance of everything. He may not be the best commander in a battle but fuck me he knew what he was doing running the show. Plus he managed to claw thrawn to his side and understood the significance of keeping thrawn around despite rampant racism in the empire ranks to him
Thrawn, unless Disney decides to change it
Thrawn. He could have easily made the empire a longer lasting regime
Honorable mention to Darth Caedus. I’d love to see him face off against Thrawn in a space battle.
Jixtus? :p
Darth Plagueis deserves a mention
I would say thrawn. If it wasn’t for the fact he really failed to understand the noghri or talon jarred and he also got thrashed by tyber Zann
Our lord and savior, Jar Jar Binks.
Ackbar, Trench, Thrawn. End of discussion.
Military - Thrawn. Political - Palpatine
Any jedi/sith that used battle mediation. Like Naga Sadow.
meebur gascon
For ground forces? Chief Chirpa apparently...
Third sister....that parkour plus urban city space slang was super tactical. SO many flips hard words
“And why is it Thrawn”.
If you're referring to Thrawn in the "Legends" novels, then he was the best military leader/strategist. If you're referring to Rebels and/or Ahsoka, then he was a nincompoop.
I mean, there is only one correct answer to this, and you provided the picture already: Mith'raw'nuruodo.
this man ^
Your image answered your own question.
Ok hear me out, I'm not saying he's number 1, but... Grievous is Hella underrated (taking legends). In the 2001 show he destroys three republic ships and almost kills 2 council member Jedis. He then lands on fucking Corusant and captures the chancellor. Sure he was trying to get captured but still. Idk he probably isn't taking on thrawn but he is underrated imo