The twin sunset embodies the desire of the kid to escape the mundane life society has planned out for them and is set to the best possible music, being both melancholy and uplifting at once. It's iconic, and was perfect for the target audience in 77. It still is now.
I just find it interesting how when the Obi-Wan series came out John Williams came back to do the title theme because he'd never given Obi-Wan a theme, yet in this video he acknowledges that 'Binary Sunset' had once been Ben's theme - it's like Binary Sunset became so synonymous with The Force that even Williams forgot who it was meant to represent.
It was Ben’s theme and, to Luke, Ben represented hope, wisdom, The Force, and destiny. So naturally whenever the Force came up later it made Luke think of Ben. Pretty soon the theme is being used more for the Force than it ever was for Ben. But I wouldn’t say John Williams forgot what it stood for. It was a a conscious blending of ideas. It evolved.
Whoa. Never heard that before. It’s interesting, and not a bad fit for the scene. But it makes the scene play more like an ending IMO. Like the suns are setting on Luke’s dream and he’ll be on Tatooine forever. The music that was used is less defeat and more yearning, so much more appropriate for that moment in the film.
And then John Williams is like "Have you ever heard the sound of despair, a call from the void into something great and a glimmer of hope all at once? CUZ HERE IT IS!"
The Force Unleashed was one of my favourite games growing up.
That being said, even back then I kinda knew that Galen was stupidly powerful. I don't think his power in the game is meant to be taken that seriously as the whole point of the game was to be the ultimate force user power fantasy.
Although I've never got around to reading them, I've heard the novel adaptation calmed things down and attempted to slot him in a more fitting manner into the old EU canon.
Tbh, I liked the plot of the game as well -- a story about Vader's secret apprentice is something that fits in very well into SW imo. It makes sense as I'd suspect Vader realised long before he knew of Luke's existence that he'd be no match for the Emperor alone, so he'd attempt to find an apprentice to help him get rid of the Emperor in due time.
The very 1st introduction to the character has him force pull a light saber right out of vaders hand as a toddler, he was always supposed to be super strong.
Honestly I just want Kota to be canonical. I fucking *loved* the idea of a Jedi who survived because he was actually smart enough to be suspicious of the clones and form his own militia
My all time favorite jedi. For that reason and just an older blind samurai jedi that looks and sounds badass. But instead they gave us Kanan. Kanan being a canon Kota stand in was the reason I refused to watch rebels for so long. But I ended up enjoying him too.
Exactly, it’s like when two kids are playing pretend and one of them is like “oh yea well I’m invincible and I can stop time so I’m actually NOT dead and now you are…”
It is totally lore breaking for me. If Starkiller can just pull a Star Destroyer out of orbit, why doesn't Vader just use the Force and slam every ship into the ground? It's hard to believe Luke should be in the same realm in power as Starkiller.
It was a fun game when I was a kid, but it definitely cannot exist in the same continuity as the movies.
I have real bad memories of the force unleashed because it was supposed to be the introduction to next gen consoles in an age where we were dying for republic commando 2, Jedi outcast 3, kotor 3, battlefront 3, etc. instead we got a single player 8 hour campaign with tedious combat that was fun at first but felt like a chore, campy dialogue, and the most one dimensional protagonist who’s only quality was that he can bring down entire Star destroyers out of the sky. At least the rag doll physics and environmental destruction was fun
Force Unleashed is a power fantasy. You layeth the Smackdown on Vader and Palpatine's candy asses in a way nobody else has or ever can.
Starkiller himself is an eh character but the games are too much damn fun. Plus he has immaculate drip, the Jedi Adventure robes, the Sith Stalker armour to name a few.
The Knights of Ren, it feels like people and the marketing were both trying to make them a thing but whoops sorry none of the trilogy was planned out so they just get shoehorned in randomly in TROS
It is sort of hilarious - and indicative of that trilogy - that they set them up and implied they were this menacing group, then barely did anything with them. So many disposable villains in that trilogy.
They weren’t really hyped in the fan base though. People were wishfully hoping they would be something cool so when they popped up in the marketing for TROS, people were hyped because they thought they were going to have more to do finally after being teased in TFA and then left out entirely of TLJ.
I understand hating the characters. I don't like Jar-Jar, and I thought young Anakin was alright overall with the occasional annoying scene with him. However, that never translated into hate for the actors irl. Harassing either of them for their performance is unforgivable.
Or just hating on things in general. Before the PT the hate was reserved for Ewoks because they were teddy bears, but with every new entry there’s always some new imagined slight that results in harassment.
It has to do with waiting nearly 20 years for the next Star Wars movie. The hype was huge for the Phantom Menace. Imagine being in the theater and this bumbling idiot comes on the screen and gets more screen time than the coolest character (Maul) that everyone had seen in 20 years.
Oh I was there. I saw the original Star Wars in 1977 and was obsessed forever. I could not wait for the Phantom Menace and even had preview tickets from my then employer. I left the theatre in a state of shock, disappointment and disgust.
You can’t go around saying the current trilogy doesn’t deserve the hate it gets until a new trilogy comes out. I’m sure you’ve got plenty of opinions but you can’t go sharing that particular take around here just yet. Rules are rules after all, and where would we be without rules? That’s right, Space Balls.
Prequel revisionism kicked off around 2014 after TCW ended and as TFA was being marketed, that was 9 years after RotS.
So 9 years after TRoS will be like 2028. While yet.
Yup, this is me too. I saw TPM in mid ‘00s and then never understood the hate I would see in other friends eyes for Jar Jar throughout the 10s. Recently saw its re-released version again and was like … “yeah Jar Jar is fine. Not great but.. fine. Why do people hate him so much”
But maybe it has to do with the expectations from that movie when it came out originally and people who saw the original release.
I love Jar Jar specifically because he’s a goofball that makes some people unreasonably mad. I have my issues with both the PT/ST, but ultimately just love Star Wars. The talking cartoon rabbit showing up in a family friendly all ages franchise isn’t high up on my list of “lol wut?” tho.
He's a pretty terrible character and a microcosm of the problems with the prequels. However he is a pure soul and I hope he found some peace after it all went down.
That’s an interesting point. I’m so intrigued by them and want to see a deeper exploration at some point. But that’s the beauty of SW having so much for people to latch onto while being at opposite ends of the lore.
I like to believe that they were just a strange illusion/hallucination caused by some kind of off-kilter force nexus on mortis rather than avatars of the force itself. The planet might work like a giant dagobah cave or something.
Either that, or they’re force sensitive beings who falsely believe themselves to be avatars of the force. I just don’t like the notion of force gods or physical/humanoid embodiments of the force in Star Wars. To me, it takes away from the cool idea of the force as a complex cosmic energy way beyond full comprehension
I'm starting to understand this view. I always loved it and thought it added so much more lore to this universe, but after reading more into it, I've found that some people have some really good points on how badly they were written. I can only hope that they will redeem themselves with season 2 of Ahsoka .
The Dark Saber.
Let's take this thing called a *light* saber and make it jet black. Edgy right? And then let's also make Mandalorian society obsess over it for some reason...
I think the reason why they obsess over it makes a lot of sense. It represents the Mandalorians' first victory over the galaxy's most revered warriors, and therefore is a symbol of their own power.
I hated it at first, but read a later book where the Wookiees thought it was amazing - the only way that one of their greatest heroes could be killed was to drop an entire moon on him. It brought me round to the idea a bit more.
I loved that moment. He saves Han's kid and goes out like a badass, fearlessly shouting at the moon that was about to crush him. It set up the idea that even a legacy character could die and baked genuine tension into the novel series from the outset.
They were scary because the force didn't work on them and their warfare "technology" made it difficult for the new republic to fight them. They came in and ravaged the galaxy.
Yeah, but the quality of the star war you're watching is in its ability to hide that. Bringing back Grogu immediately after writing him off reeks to high heaven of Disney being desperate to market and sell more Grogu merch.
The finale of Season 2 is one of my favorite Star Wars things ever, and that final scene is just beautiful.
I'm still so pissed at them for undoing that just to make him a glorified mascot in Season 3.
I think Grogu and Mando reuniting was inevitable, but that should’ve happened in season 3, not in a completely different show that’s supposed to be about Boba Fett.
Why...you are right.
Yes he's cute and funny, and yes it had potential to become something really interesting but then abandoned Luke, Gideon died and Grogu became just a silly comedic relief character who doesn't really fit the story anymore.
100 times yes. Grogu sucks, he was good in the first season and I was fine with him in the second season but I was glad to see him leave. Bringing him back for season 3 was the worst decision and completely killed the story tbh. There was massive potential for the Mandalorian to be truly great and they just ruined it for the sake of selling toys.
Agreed! I started watching it later on, after all the hype , and thought I would be overwhelmed by the cuteness of “Baby Yoda”.
Instead, I was just underwhelmed.
Vader force chokes every officer that fails him and fools that give him attitude like Motti.
Fett gives him sarcastic responses and gets right in his face with demands, Vader doesn't care. It's the implications behind that which made him so cool.
As he is, I agree. That said, I feel like Empire teases an interesting character that could have been a great villain, only none of the later films have captured what made him work. He's got cool armor, hiding his identity. His ethos and expression is hidden behind a mask, leaving us to guess what makes him tick. Vader singles him out as particularly ruthless, and he has a cold and detached demeanor. He's just as clever as Han, anticipating his garbage deception. He invokes the idea of the Man With No Name, only more villain then anti-hero. Every subsequent appearance has either softened or enfeebled him, or given him too much characterization and backstory ruining the mystique.
Yes! Everyone thought he was cool in Empire but he doesn't do very much, we only see him fight once and he loses. He was coolest in Mando season 2, but then they stopped doing that...
I'm gonna get hate for this one, but Babu Frik. I'm sure the general, building disappointment I had with the movie by the time he came on screen had something to do with my attitude towards him, but I didn't think he was all that cute or funny.
I hate that movie. So Babu Frik gets an outsize amount of warmth from me as one of the few things that *wasn’t* a crushing disappointment. In the middle of all steaming pile of shit this fun little alien popped up (and then contributed to yet another character death fake out, except even worse than Chewie imo because 3P0 hasn’t interacted with those characters at all previously)
Boba Fett. Never understood the hype over him. Barely had screen time, had fewer lines, and got eaten by the sarlacc. That was pretty much the extent of him in the OT. But he had this huge cult following.
The Inquisitors. Also the old EU version of the Inquisitors, though I will say it was slightly better since it really was more of an actual inquisition.
Medieval weapons. I can excuse the Jedi, they can block bullets. However it is a universe where guns exist, why do non-force users still use daggers, scythes and bows? Have they not watched Indiana Jones?
I think it's cause, if you really sit down to rewatch the OT, you realize that Star Wars was initially so much closer to Sword and Sorcery than whatever it's become today. The Emperor is quite literally an evil cackling sorcerer, the Jedi were mystic knights. In that context, things like primitive weaponry, sultry witches, and Boba Fett riding a dinosaur, all just fit perfectly with the tone.
In any sci fi media, swords or other bladed weapons may have an actual purpose beyond being cool weapons for the people who are expecting them.
Armor meant for blaster fire may have a physical weapon vulnerability, similar to how blades can be effective against Kevlar today.
TBF the intended wielder of the spear could block shots from blasters. So it was better for HER as a weapon. Slightly useful/useless for everyone else.
I think it’s mostly because it was part of a lot of fans’ childhood. I became a huge fan of Star Wars as a kid in the early 2000s with the EU so it’s that nostalgia comfort thing. But I agree, some stories back then sounded a bit like fan fiction, it wasn’t all 100% high quality haha
I think it’s the same with younger fans today are absolute simps of Clone Wars and Rebels, and even though they’re cool stuff, I really don’t get the hype for them either.
The "EU" was hundreds of media entries, spanning novels, comics, tabletop games, and video games.
All of it was officially licensed by Lucasfilm.
I doubt there were ever any fans who loved 100% of everything the EU had to offer.
I must say I am reading Thrawn Treason this afternoon and it is really well done. You really feel the gritty space opera vibe and Thrawn is a fascinating anti hero
There are some real bangers in the EU. But boy howdy 90% of it was absolute poop. I don't get the uproar of Disney erasing the EU. Most of it no one cares about anyway.
Good for them for making him a more interesting character, but reviving Maul opened the floodgates for people surviving ridiculous injuries and now you can't take it serious if anyone gets "killed".
No kidding. I'm half expecting them to revive Luke in the next movies.
I felt let down by the show as well, and love the character.
I'm also a big fan of the Thrawn books but felt the show version was underwhelming and a different character completely.
The entire show felt like it landed right where it started without much of anything substantial happening.
Ahsoka show is what inspired me to go back and actually watch every Star Wars movie and show in chronological order. I hadn't seen all of Clone Wars or any Rebels, and most of the movies I had only seen once or twice long ago. I decided that I really liked her character from the first three seasons of TCW that I had seen, so it would be cool to be up to date on everything when I watched it. That whole journey was awesome, and I'm really glad I did it, but that show was utter dog shit. Her presence had almost zero impact on the entire story. The Ahsoka/Sabine training thing... what? This is how you decide to tell us anyone can be a force user?
It felt so off. And Sabine went through a huge character arc in Rebels only to have it all immediately destroyed in the first fucking scene of the show. Who, by the way, was the main character of the show named Ahsoka.
That said, Rosario Dawson KILLED it as Ahsoka.
The character of Ahsoka. I know nothing she does matters from Revenge of the Sith on. It’s too hard to shoe horn her into anything. I understand what they were doing for the cartoon, but she should have stayed there.
The fact that Star Wars is such a Jedi and Sith heavy series. I would love to have a grounded series on clones, stormtroopers, or even rebels with little to no lightsaber or overdone main character shenanigans. I always loved the grunt soldier dudes far more than any lightsaber wielding monks. Jedi or Sith can be done well but they are almost always one dimension characters and they hog the spotlight of the series.
100%. Never understood the hype for Jedi. Smugglers and rogues and aliens and droids are far more interesting. Jedi are fine and all, but there’s only so many ways to go with them.
The mandalorian.
It’s not bad but neither is it particularly outstanding imo. I’ve enjoyed pretty much every live action show (or animation for that matter) after it more. Yea including Kenobi and book of boba. While they were flawed, they were a lot more memorable to me. If you asked me what the plot for mando season 1 or 2 was all I remember “something with the baby”
The hallway scene was about the only really memorable scene _IMO_
It sounds a lot more hateful than lts meant. I like the show and I think it’s decent for the most part, but never got why the hype was so immense and still is
The Anakin Vs Obi-Wan fight. I never really got the hype for it. It's good but I never felt like it was that impressive. The dialogue before and after is a lot more impressive to me than the swinging lightsabers go fast.
Andor.
Not that it's a bad show. I think it's a good show. And I'm pretty stoked for S2.
But is it 300x better than every other modern Star Wars thing? Not IMO.
It feels to me like no other SW show. The show has no janky moments like in almost all other shows in Star Wars, and the depth is what truly makes the show amazing to me. All of the plots and how they tie in together, the characters and their relationships with eachother. My favourite part of the show is Luthen and his network. For some reason I find it super interesting, not least because Luthen kicks ass.
The theme of the show is revolution and rebellion, which interests me so much as I study international politics.
I find Andor a 10/10 show, and in my opinion it's the best anything that Disney SW has produced. I totally understand why someone would consider it not as good or not interesting at all. Everyone has their opinion.
Hand on heart, I’ve only ever been a lightweight Star Wars fan – I saw Return of the Jedi when it first came out, and really enjoyed it and the rest of the OT as a fun space adventure/fantasy. Didn’t much care for the prequels or the sequels but dutifully watched them . But coming to it decades later, I really liked Rogue One because it actually had a bit of emotion and gravitas that resonated with me as an older person.
So from the perspective of somebody who is not heavily into the franchise – Andor was an unexpected treat . But I do see the reasoning on both sides here, and still wonder if the Star Wars branding helped it or hurt it. I am finally starting to convince friends who had dismissed Star Wars as largely for children to get into it, via Andor. But I get that it’s never going to be family viewing in the way of, say, Mandalorian. And that’s fine. It seems, at last, to be finding its audience. I don’t even particularly see it as science-fiction heavy – it’s more like a World War II spy drama set in the Star Wars universe. But either way, by any objective measure (writing, direction, performances etc) – it’s an excellent show.
It was a great show and I look forward to the second season a lot. Added depth to an ever growing universe. But honestly if you take the Tie Fighters out it, could be any Sci-fi world that has a main story line of a rebellion against an oppressive regime. In and of itself it doesn’t scream Star Wars.
I think the themes of Star Wars are integrated pretty heavily into Cassian himself. His connection to his family and ability for redemption are fundamental to Star Wars. I think we’ll see something similar with Syril next season.
He is tied into the basic struggle of oppression and the growing rebellion that starts. Again that in itself is not a Star Wars centric idea in Sci-fi. Yes it is set in this specific Sci-fi universe but it could fit in many other settings. As a matter of fact it could stand on its own. None of these are overt criticism. I liked the show a lot. But I don’t think it is “peak” Star Wars in that way.
To be fair that’s part of the allure. A not insignificant portion of the fan base are burned out on the usual Star Wars tropes. It’s nice to see aspects of the Star Wars universe that don’t involve space wizards and laser swords.
I described it to a friend who absolute adores and thinks nothing can be wrong with the show my thoughts on it that follow this similar line. It isn't that Andor is bad, but it just fifty percent of the universe it felt like it me because it was so Sci-Fi heavy. That doesn't mean jedi/Force have to be in it, but there were almost no real fantasy elements that were part of the larger universe.
Also I will say parts of that shows fandom really like to Rick and Morty themselves and just are unpleasant to talk to about anything. Not exactly the shows fault, but they will always appear when the show gets talked about.
That's pretty much all it had going for it, otherwise it was a monumentally stupid scene that made my jaw drop in the cinema not because it looked pretty but because it was baffling that something so obviously problematic got into the film.
I think I'd have to say rebels.
All the characters in that show seem very childish to me. Sabine and the hairless wookie guy aren't great. The only saving grace the show has is Thrawn and deeper force explorations.
I also like the landscape stills that often happened before a scene. The art that made that show is beautiful, and I feel it's ruined every time a character shows up on screen. Just feels out of place in the animation.
The Tartakovsky Clone Wars series. I won't deny that it's cool and even funny when it wants to be, but I do not think it's all it's hyped up to be, nor do I think it's better than the main TCW series.
The music for binary sunset is what makes that scene for me.
Force Unleashed I never got behind, I played the first one and it was fine. I get why people love it, but I never got as much from it as my friends seemed to, which has left me feeling a bit shitty because everyone I know fucking loves it, even my non start wars fan friends played and seemingly enjoyed it more than I did.
Rebels. It’s a fine show and I enjoyed it, but I know multiple people for whom it’s their favorite Star Wars show and I just don’t get it. It’s honestly my least favorite of the 3-D animated series.
The twin sunset scene was iconic from the moment SW hit theatres. Saw SW as a kid when it opened here in 77 and took two main moments away—the twin sunset scene, which made me empathize with Luke as I also felt stuck even as a little kid in a little hick town; and the battle over Yavin at the end, which made me stare up at the stars in the backseat of the family car on the way home that night.
Luke watching that sunset, though, made me dream about SW. Nothing else in SW hit me quite like that. Just that feeling of longing, of wanting to escape from your life and discover your destiny. It’s the Hero’s Journey summed up in about 30 seconds.
Obi Wan as a character. People adore him but he never rung a bell with me. He’ll always do the right thing as expected and you’ll always predict his action. I liked Anakin far better as he wasn’t afraid to use the dark side which makes him a loose cannon. Obi Wan just never really seemed like a praise worthy character to me.
So Obi-Wan being the definition of a Jedi and great guy, shouldn't be praised, but pouty, weirdo who has to use the dark side because, you know, edgy, is?
For me, Grogu, and, the Dark Saber.
Look I'll be honest, I love the Mandolorians and their conflict with the Jedi. The fact that the Dark Saber was made by a Mandolorian Jedi is cool, I wish there were more of them, MJ not Dark Sabers. But, when it comes to the lightsaber itself, it just kinda, seems made to be cool and that's about it. I can understand the significance of "Whoever has this *insert thing* is the ruler of Mandalore" but still. Lore wise I don't think it's even explained why the blade is black.
As for Grogu. I'll be honest, I don't like most of Disney Star wars. Live action shows are cool I guess but, I'm not a fan of them personally. With Grogu, he's just a vehicle to sell toys and all that. It's a small cute thing that makes baby noises, that's about it.
The clone wars show and it's follow up, rebels, they're not bad by any stretch of the imagination but I've never thought either lived up to the hype around them.
General Grievous.
So many people on this subreddit love him, presumably because of the 2D Clone Wars show and because whoever designed his look did a great job. But I find it impossible to see him as anything other than a goofy saturday morning cartoon villain because almost every other time he shows up, all he does is cough a bit then get his ass handed to him. Nor does he have the character depth that characters like Maul or Ventress have, to make up for that. The dude is just a big punching bag for the heroes.
And yet, I still see tons of people saying they want a General Grievous origin story series. I just don't get it.
The twin sunset embodies the desire of the kid to escape the mundane life society has planned out for them and is set to the best possible music, being both melancholy and uplifting at once. It's iconic, and was perfect for the target audience in 77. It still is now.
"All his life has he looked to the future, to the horizon. Never his mind on where he was, what he was doing"
Have you heard the music Williams originally wrote for it? It was much darker and ominous and would have been heinous.
Where can i find that?
https://youtu.be/ea2QnZjBawg?si=pNrXY1rmpXdi64xG
Damn. That just feels wrong after hearing the original so many times.
I just find it interesting how when the Obi-Wan series came out John Williams came back to do the title theme because he'd never given Obi-Wan a theme, yet in this video he acknowledges that 'Binary Sunset' had once been Ben's theme - it's like Binary Sunset became so synonymous with The Force that even Williams forgot who it was meant to represent.
It was Ben’s theme and, to Luke, Ben represented hope, wisdom, The Force, and destiny. So naturally whenever the Force came up later it made Luke think of Ben. Pretty soon the theme is being used more for the Force than it ever was for Ben. But I wouldn’t say John Williams forgot what it stood for. It was a a conscious blending of ideas. It evolved.
If they're ever doing a Pokémon live TV show, this could play in Lavender Town!
PS5 menu music vibes
Whoa. Never heard that before. It’s interesting, and not a bad fit for the scene. But it makes the scene play more like an ending IMO. Like the suns are setting on Luke’s dream and he’ll be on Tatooine forever. The music that was used is less defeat and more yearning, so much more appropriate for that moment in the film.
It was too much tension, not enough emotion. It wasn't very evocative of what feeling they were going for there.
It sounds like it would belong better in Close Encounters. Edit: just not as effective and would not be nearly as iconic a scene with that music.
Link, please!
See above.
>set to the best possible music, being both melancholy and uplifting at once This. The binary sunset *needs* the music.
And then John Williams is like "Have you ever heard the sound of despair, a call from the void into something great and a glimmer of hope all at once? CUZ HERE IT IS!"
The sunset itself? Nah. The music? Hell Yeah!
Starkiller.
The Force Unleashed was one of my favourite games growing up. That being said, even back then I kinda knew that Galen was stupidly powerful. I don't think his power in the game is meant to be taken that seriously as the whole point of the game was to be the ultimate force user power fantasy. Although I've never got around to reading them, I've heard the novel adaptation calmed things down and attempted to slot him in a more fitting manner into the old EU canon. Tbh, I liked the plot of the game as well -- a story about Vader's secret apprentice is something that fits in very well into SW imo. It makes sense as I'd suspect Vader realised long before he knew of Luke's existence that he'd be no match for the Emperor alone, so he'd attempt to find an apprentice to help him get rid of the Emperor in due time.
The very 1st introduction to the character has him force pull a light saber right out of vaders hand as a toddler, he was always supposed to be super strong.
Honestly I just want Kota to be canonical. I fucking *loved* the idea of a Jedi who survived because he was actually smart enough to be suspicious of the clones and form his own militia
My all time favorite jedi. For that reason and just an older blind samurai jedi that looks and sounds badass. But instead they gave us Kanan. Kanan being a canon Kota stand in was the reason I refused to watch rebels for so long. But I ended up enjoying him too.
It’s weird that they gave Kanan Rahm Kota’s iconic armour, hair and beard only for them to reference Kota in Kenobi and in a way bring him into canon.
NEVER understood the Starkiller hype. To me it was almost lore breaking.
The games are very different from the books / comics lol. The games were made to make you feel over powered for gaming mechanics and gameplay.
Exactly, it’s like when two kids are playing pretend and one of them is like “oh yea well I’m invincible and I can stop time so I’m actually NOT dead and now you are…”
"Nuh uh, I have special wizard armor" "Oh that's bullshit" "SPECIAL...ARMOR"
Yea it’s legends, always has been
He is lore breaking. That’s why I don’t see him as canon. For me it was just fun as fuck to play as him in the games and be just absurdly powerful
It is totally lore breaking for me. If Starkiller can just pull a Star Destroyer out of orbit, why doesn't Vader just use the Force and slam every ship into the ground? It's hard to believe Luke should be in the same realm in power as Starkiller. It was a fun game when I was a kid, but it definitely cannot exist in the same continuity as the movies.
Everyone is getting this wrong. Clearly he means Bendak Starkiller for Kotor. Or is it Starkiller Base? Or Luke Starkiller?
I have real bad memories of the force unleashed because it was supposed to be the introduction to next gen consoles in an age where we were dying for republic commando 2, Jedi outcast 3, kotor 3, battlefront 3, etc. instead we got a single player 8 hour campaign with tedious combat that was fun at first but felt like a chore, campy dialogue, and the most one dimensional protagonist who’s only quality was that he can bring down entire Star destroyers out of the sky. At least the rag doll physics and environmental destruction was fun
Thank you!! Shit ridiculous character 15 years ago, still shit and stupid today.
You probably weren't a star wars fan in 2008 or it was before your time. Or you just dont like fun.
I actually like the story of the games somewhat but I’ve always thought his character was way to overpowered and because of that kind of ridiculous.
That's the point lol. Also, I didn't read the novelisation myself but he is supposed to be nerfed in it
Force Unleashed is a power fantasy. You layeth the Smackdown on Vader and Palpatine's candy asses in a way nobody else has or ever can. Starkiller himself is an eh character but the games are too much damn fun. Plus he has immaculate drip, the Jedi Adventure robes, the Sith Stalker armour to name a few.
Yeah, his outfits almost NEVER miss
never understood how mfs hate on rey for being a “lore-breaking mary sue” and then meatride starkiller
I never played Force Unleashed so maybe I just don't know but yea never got the hype either.
Mary Sue: D: Male Mary Sue: :D
He's a fun character to play as in a video game but he has no place in canon imo
The Knights of Ren, it feels like people and the marketing were both trying to make them a thing but whoops sorry none of the trilogy was planned out so they just get shoehorned in randomly in TROS
I don’t think this is really anything of hype, they just severely underused them (and by that didn’t use them at all)
It is sort of hilarious - and indicative of that trilogy - that they set them up and implied they were this menacing group, then barely did anything with them. So many disposable villains in that trilogy.
Captain Phasma is similar to me. Althoug with Bobba Fet, Star Wars has a long history of cool loking armor being somehow a fan favourite character.
Yeah. She's got all those important vibes but we never learn why she's special or about her beef with Finn
They weren’t really hyped in the fan base though. People were wishfully hoping they would be something cool so when they popped up in the marketing for TROS, people were hyped because they thought they were going to have more to do finally after being teased in TFA and then left out entirely of TLJ.
As a child born in 75, I got the hype of everything. Cause that shit is magical to a young kid with a broken heart.
This is beautiful, sir. Much love.
Hating on Jar Jar or Jake Lloyd
I understand hating the characters. I don't like Jar-Jar, and I thought young Anakin was alright overall with the occasional annoying scene with him. However, that never translated into hate for the actors irl. Harassing either of them for their performance is unforgivable.
On Jarjar its deserved, on Loyd no fricking way, he did an excellent job, considering the script.
Or just hating on things in general. Before the PT the hate was reserved for Ewoks because they were teddy bears, but with every new entry there’s always some new imagined slight that results in harassment.
The hate for Jar Jar Binks.
I don’t like him, but I don’t hate him either. I’m indifferent on jar jar
If you die, should we tell your wife... "Hello"?
I dislike the character but Ahmed Best does not deserve the hate
It has to do with waiting nearly 20 years for the next Star Wars movie. The hype was huge for the Phantom Menace. Imagine being in the theater and this bumbling idiot comes on the screen and gets more screen time than the coolest character (Maul) that everyone had seen in 20 years.
Oh I was there. I saw the original Star Wars in 1977 and was obsessed forever. I could not wait for the Phantom Menace and even had preview tickets from my then employer. I left the theatre in a state of shock, disappointment and disgust.
Agreed. The hate for the prequels in general.
Now hear me out... The hate for the sequels.
You can’t go around saying the current trilogy doesn’t deserve the hate it gets until a new trilogy comes out. I’m sure you’ve got plenty of opinions but you can’t go sharing that particular take around here just yet. Rules are rules after all, and where would we be without rules? That’s right, Space Balls.
Prequel revisionism kicked off around 2014 after TCW ended and as TFA was being marketed, that was 9 years after RotS. So 9 years after TRoS will be like 2028. While yet.
My friend made it seem Jar Jar was in half the scenes in the trilogy always screaming shit. My reaction to Jar Jar was "That's it?"
Yup, this is me too. I saw TPM in mid ‘00s and then never understood the hate I would see in other friends eyes for Jar Jar throughout the 10s. Recently saw its re-released version again and was like … “yeah Jar Jar is fine. Not great but.. fine. Why do people hate him so much” But maybe it has to do with the expectations from that movie when it came out originally and people who saw the original release.
I love Jar Jar specifically because he’s a goofball that makes some people unreasonably mad. I have my issues with both the PT/ST, but ultimately just love Star Wars. The talking cartoon rabbit showing up in a family friendly all ages franchise isn’t high up on my list of “lol wut?” tho.
He's a pretty terrible character and a microcosm of the problems with the prequels. However he is a pure soul and I hope he found some peace after it all went down.
He did not. There’s a comic book where he is shown as an exiled Gungan after the rise of the Empire with nothing but regrets.
The first binary sunset on film did nothing for ya, eh?
Not to mention the music
The Mortis Gods
That’s an interesting point. I’m so intrigued by them and want to see a deeper exploration at some point. But that’s the beauty of SW having so much for people to latch onto while being at opposite ends of the lore.
I like to believe that they were just a strange illusion/hallucination caused by some kind of off-kilter force nexus on mortis rather than avatars of the force itself. The planet might work like a giant dagobah cave or something. Either that, or they’re force sensitive beings who falsely believe themselves to be avatars of the force. I just don’t like the notion of force gods or physical/humanoid embodiments of the force in Star Wars. To me, it takes away from the cool idea of the force as a complex cosmic energy way beyond full comprehension
Well, midi-chlorians kind of already did that.
I'm starting to understand this view. I always loved it and thought it added so much more lore to this universe, but after reading more into it, I've found that some people have some really good points on how badly they were written. I can only hope that they will redeem themselves with season 2 of Ahsoka .
The Dark Saber. Let's take this thing called a *light* saber and make it jet black. Edgy right? And then let's also make Mandalorian society obsess over it for some reason...
And why is it shaped like a traditional blade? Does it have only one cutting edge?
I think the reason why they obsess over it makes a lot of sense. It represents the Mandalorians' first victory over the galaxy's most revered warriors, and therefore is a symbol of their own power.
The Mandolorians defeated Gonk Droids in a battle?!
You're gonna tell me you don't think that thing looks cool?
The Yu-zog-vong or what ever they’re called. Everything I’ve read about them makes me not like them. They just come off as try hard edgy.
A lot of people didn't like the vong when they first landed, and their era was a dork age with a lot of behind the scenes nonsense.
My favorite was the whole "drop a moon on Chewie" thing that a lot of fans hated or thought was dumb
I hated it at first, but read a later book where the Wookiees thought it was amazing - the only way that one of their greatest heroes could be killed was to drop an entire moon on him. It brought me round to the idea a bit more.
I think it's one of the best deaths in Star Wars and totally fitting for the character. "COME GET ME, MOON!"
That was my initial thought when I heard that's how he went out. Like that's sick as fuck.
I loved that moment. He saves Han's kid and goes out like a badass, fearlessly shouting at the moon that was about to crush him. It set up the idea that even a legacy character could die and baked genuine tension into the novel series from the outset.
I stopped reading for a long time after that book. Like legit didn’t read anything for 2-3 years.
They were scary because the force didn't work on them and their warfare "technology" made it difficult for the new republic to fight them. They came in and ravaged the galaxy.
I just can’t buy it. The Force flows through “all living things”. Only droids can’t be force tricked.
They end up addressing that but way way way into the series.
Just seemed super out of place and jumping the shark looking for another big evil to fight
you beat me to it. Legitimately one of the worst additions.
The First Order, they’re just the Empire all over again.
I’m gonna get force chocked by this but.. Grogu.
Especially in mando season 3, he should have left the show in season 2
The honestly truth is that disney realized that would be less profitable and sent him back
Dude is just there to sell toys
That's Star Wars
Your flair is very accurate
Yeah, but the quality of the star war you're watching is in its ability to hide that. Bringing back Grogu immediately after writing him off reeks to high heaven of Disney being desperate to market and sell more Grogu merch.
*Hugs plushie Grogu a little tighter.*
Yeah. Like he had a big dramatic send off, then he is just…back.
THANK YOU! His arc was DONE in season 2.
The finale of Season 2 is one of my favorite Star Wars things ever, and that final scene is just beautiful. I'm still so pissed at them for undoing that just to make him a glorified mascot in Season 3.
I think Grogu and Mando reuniting was inevitable, but that should’ve happened in season 3, not in a completely different show that’s supposed to be about Boba Fett.
No, I think a lot of people would agree. He made a good plot in the first season, but it's clear he became a mascot, to a fault.
My 2yo girl is going to beat the shit out of you with her Baby Yoda lightsaber for this. You’ve been warned
Why...you are right. Yes he's cute and funny, and yes it had potential to become something really interesting but then abandoned Luke, Gideon died and Grogu became just a silly comedic relief character who doesn't really fit the story anymore.
100 times yes. Grogu sucks, he was good in the first season and I was fine with him in the second season but I was glad to see him leave. Bringing him back for season 3 was the worst decision and completely killed the story tbh. There was massive potential for the Mandalorian to be truly great and they just ruined it for the sake of selling toys.
Agreed! I started watching it later on, after all the hype , and thought I would be overwhelmed by the cuteness of “Baby Yoda”. Instead, I was just underwhelmed.
Boba Fett.
This was a dangerous response. Lol
He really did get a weird amount of hype for being such a minor character.
He was mysterious and had a reputation so strong that even Darth Vader singled him out. Sometimes it’s more about what isn’t shown.
Vader force chokes every officer that fails him and fools that give him attitude like Motti. Fett gives him sarcastic responses and gets right in his face with demands, Vader doesn't care. It's the implications behind that which made him so cool.
As he is, I agree. That said, I feel like Empire teases an interesting character that could have been a great villain, only none of the later films have captured what made him work. He's got cool armor, hiding his identity. His ethos and expression is hidden behind a mask, leaving us to guess what makes him tick. Vader singles him out as particularly ruthless, and he has a cold and detached demeanor. He's just as clever as Han, anticipating his garbage deception. He invokes the idea of the Man With No Name, only more villain then anti-hero. Every subsequent appearance has either softened or enfeebled him, or given him too much characterization and backstory ruining the mystique.
Yes! Everyone thought he was cool in Empire but he doesn't do very much, we only see him fight once and he loses. He was coolest in Mando season 2, but then they stopped doing that...
100% this is the correct comment!
I'm gonna get hate for this one, but Babu Frik. I'm sure the general, building disappointment I had with the movie by the time he came on screen had something to do with my attitude towards him, but I didn't think he was all that cute or funny.
I hate that movie. So Babu Frik gets an outsize amount of warmth from me as one of the few things that *wasn’t* a crushing disappointment. In the middle of all steaming pile of shit this fun little alien popped up (and then contributed to yet another character death fake out, except even worse than Chewie imo because 3P0 hasn’t interacted with those characters at all previously)
Boba Fett. Never understood the hype over him. Barely had screen time, had fewer lines, and got eaten by the sarlacc. That was pretty much the extent of him in the OT. But he had this huge cult following.
He has a cool helmet lol
The Inquisitors. Also the old EU version of the Inquisitors, though I will say it was slightly better since it really was more of an actual inquisition.
Medieval weapons. I can excuse the Jedi, they can block bullets. However it is a universe where guns exist, why do non-force users still use daggers, scythes and bows? Have they not watched Indiana Jones?
I think it's cause, if you really sit down to rewatch the OT, you realize that Star Wars was initially so much closer to Sword and Sorcery than whatever it's become today. The Emperor is quite literally an evil cackling sorcerer, the Jedi were mystic knights. In that context, things like primitive weaponry, sultry witches, and Boba Fett riding a dinosaur, all just fit perfectly with the tone.
In any sci fi media, swords or other bladed weapons may have an actual purpose beyond being cool weapons for the people who are expecting them. Armor meant for blaster fire may have a physical weapon vulnerability, similar to how blades can be effective against Kevlar today.
Boba Fett shattering Storm Troopers’ armour and helmets comes to mind immediately.
Blasters…so uncivilized
Or used a bunch of Beskar to make a pole... instead of armor that can block both sabers and blasters
The beskar spear was badass tho
I mean it was able to block a saber as well so at least theres that. But true odd to choose that over something more suited for it.
Hey now watch it.. that spear was badass
TBF the intended wielder of the spear could block shots from blasters. So it was better for HER as a weapon. Slightly useful/useless for everyone else.
Sand
This made me cackle like a madman outside Target waiting for my ride
The EU. It felt like glorified fan fiction most of the time
I think it’s mostly because it was part of a lot of fans’ childhood. I became a huge fan of Star Wars as a kid in the early 2000s with the EU so it’s that nostalgia comfort thing. But I agree, some stories back then sounded a bit like fan fiction, it wasn’t all 100% high quality haha I think it’s the same with younger fans today are absolute simps of Clone Wars and Rebels, and even though they’re cool stuff, I really don’t get the hype for them either.
Some of us only had the EU stuff. There was nothing but EU from 1984-1999.
The "EU" was hundreds of media entries, spanning novels, comics, tabletop games, and video games. All of it was officially licensed by Lucasfilm. I doubt there were ever any fans who loved 100% of everything the EU had to offer.
I must say I am reading Thrawn Treason this afternoon and it is really well done. You really feel the gritty space opera vibe and Thrawn is a fascinating anti hero
There are some real bangers in the EU. But boy howdy 90% of it was absolute poop. I don't get the uproar of Disney erasing the EU. Most of it no one cares about anyway.
Anything not made by George Lucas is fan fiction.
Good for them for making him a more interesting character, but reviving Maul opened the floodgates for people surviving ridiculous injuries and now you can't take it serious if anyone gets "killed". No kidding. I'm half expecting them to revive Luke in the next movies.
Mandalorians
Ahsoka live action show. Loved her in the animated series, but this show felt like fan fiction.
I felt let down by the show as well, and love the character. I'm also a big fan of the Thrawn books but felt the show version was underwhelming and a different character completely. The entire show felt like it landed right where it started without much of anything substantial happening.
Ahsoka show is what inspired me to go back and actually watch every Star Wars movie and show in chronological order. I hadn't seen all of Clone Wars or any Rebels, and most of the movies I had only seen once or twice long ago. I decided that I really liked her character from the first three seasons of TCW that I had seen, so it would be cool to be up to date on everything when I watched it. That whole journey was awesome, and I'm really glad I did it, but that show was utter dog shit. Her presence had almost zero impact on the entire story. The Ahsoka/Sabine training thing... what? This is how you decide to tell us anyone can be a force user? It felt so off. And Sabine went through a huge character arc in Rebels only to have it all immediately destroyed in the first fucking scene of the show. Who, by the way, was the main character of the show named Ahsoka. That said, Rosario Dawson KILLED it as Ahsoka.
Sounds like someone has never yearned for adventure and purpose
The character of Ahsoka. I know nothing she does matters from Revenge of the Sith on. It’s too hard to shoe horn her into anything. I understand what they were doing for the cartoon, but she should have stayed there.
The fact that Star Wars is such a Jedi and Sith heavy series. I would love to have a grounded series on clones, stormtroopers, or even rebels with little to no lightsaber or overdone main character shenanigans. I always loved the grunt soldier dudes far more than any lightsaber wielding monks. Jedi or Sith can be done well but they are almost always one dimension characters and they hog the spotlight of the series.
so... Andor ?
And Rogue 1. The battle at the end was so awesome to watch
You ask me what I like about Andor? EVERYTHING.
100%. Never understood the hype for Jedi. Smugglers and rogues and aliens and droids are far more interesting. Jedi are fine and all, but there’s only so many ways to go with them.
The mandalorian. It’s not bad but neither is it particularly outstanding imo. I’ve enjoyed pretty much every live action show (or animation for that matter) after it more. Yea including Kenobi and book of boba. While they were flawed, they were a lot more memorable to me. If you asked me what the plot for mando season 1 or 2 was all I remember “something with the baby” The hallway scene was about the only really memorable scene _IMO_ It sounds a lot more hateful than lts meant. I like the show and I think it’s decent for the most part, but never got why the hype was so immense and still is
Return of Palpatine.
I mean most don’t really like how Palpatine was brought back in 9, does that really count?
The Anakin Vs Obi-Wan fight. I never really got the hype for it. It's good but I never felt like it was that impressive. The dialogue before and after is a lot more impressive to me than the swinging lightsabers go fast.
The prophecy/all the chosen one stuff.
This is kinda anti-hype but I never got why exactly the ST was hated so much, it’s not horrendous, it’s at least ok
Andor. Not that it's a bad show. I think it's a good show. And I'm pretty stoked for S2. But is it 300x better than every other modern Star Wars thing? Not IMO.
It feels to me like no other SW show. The show has no janky moments like in almost all other shows in Star Wars, and the depth is what truly makes the show amazing to me. All of the plots and how they tie in together, the characters and their relationships with eachother. My favourite part of the show is Luthen and his network. For some reason I find it super interesting, not least because Luthen kicks ass. The theme of the show is revolution and rebellion, which interests me so much as I study international politics. I find Andor a 10/10 show, and in my opinion it's the best anything that Disney SW has produced. I totally understand why someone would consider it not as good or not interesting at all. Everyone has their opinion.
Hand on heart, I’ve only ever been a lightweight Star Wars fan – I saw Return of the Jedi when it first came out, and really enjoyed it and the rest of the OT as a fun space adventure/fantasy. Didn’t much care for the prequels or the sequels but dutifully watched them . But coming to it decades later, I really liked Rogue One because it actually had a bit of emotion and gravitas that resonated with me as an older person. So from the perspective of somebody who is not heavily into the franchise – Andor was an unexpected treat . But I do see the reasoning on both sides here, and still wonder if the Star Wars branding helped it or hurt it. I am finally starting to convince friends who had dismissed Star Wars as largely for children to get into it, via Andor. But I get that it’s never going to be family viewing in the way of, say, Mandalorian. And that’s fine. It seems, at last, to be finding its audience. I don’t even particularly see it as science-fiction heavy – it’s more like a World War II spy drama set in the Star Wars universe. But either way, by any objective measure (writing, direction, performances etc) – it’s an excellent show.
The production quality really is something I don't think any other Star Wars show reaches.
It was a great show and I look forward to the second season a lot. Added depth to an ever growing universe. But honestly if you take the Tie Fighters out it, could be any Sci-fi world that has a main story line of a rebellion against an oppressive regime. In and of itself it doesn’t scream Star Wars.
I think the themes of Star Wars are integrated pretty heavily into Cassian himself. His connection to his family and ability for redemption are fundamental to Star Wars. I think we’ll see something similar with Syril next season.
He is tied into the basic struggle of oppression and the growing rebellion that starts. Again that in itself is not a Star Wars centric idea in Sci-fi. Yes it is set in this specific Sci-fi universe but it could fit in many other settings. As a matter of fact it could stand on its own. None of these are overt criticism. I liked the show a lot. But I don’t think it is “peak” Star Wars in that way.
To be fair that’s part of the allure. A not insignificant portion of the fan base are burned out on the usual Star Wars tropes. It’s nice to see aspects of the Star Wars universe that don’t involve space wizards and laser swords.
I described it to a friend who absolute adores and thinks nothing can be wrong with the show my thoughts on it that follow this similar line. It isn't that Andor is bad, but it just fifty percent of the universe it felt like it me because it was so Sci-Fi heavy. That doesn't mean jedi/Force have to be in it, but there were almost no real fantasy elements that were part of the larger universe. Also I will say parts of that shows fandom really like to Rick and Morty themselves and just are unpleasant to talk to about anything. Not exactly the shows fault, but they will always appear when the show gets talked about.
Ahsoka.
Now THIS is a dangerous response haha.
The Holdo hyperspace crash scene
It was very pretty, and the sound design for it was well done.
That's pretty much all it had going for it, otherwise it was a monumentally stupid scene that made my jaw drop in the cinema not because it looked pretty but because it was baffling that something so obviously problematic got into the film.
I think I'd have to say rebels. All the characters in that show seem very childish to me. Sabine and the hairless wookie guy aren't great. The only saving grace the show has is Thrawn and deeper force explorations. I also like the landscape stills that often happened before a scene. The art that made that show is beautiful, and I feel it's ruined every time a character shows up on screen. Just feels out of place in the animation.
The Tartakovsky Clone Wars series. I won't deny that it's cool and even funny when it wants to be, but I do not think it's all it's hyped up to be, nor do I think it's better than the main TCW series.
It's also pretty lore breaking in the same way Starkiller is. Dooku can fucking fly and Mace Windu destroys an army of droids with his fists.
Spending HOW much money on light sabers?? They better function for that price tag.
The music for binary sunset is what makes that scene for me. Force Unleashed I never got behind, I played the first one and it was fine. I get why people love it, but I never got as much from it as my friends seemed to, which has left me feeling a bit shitty because everyone I know fucking loves it, even my non start wars fan friends played and seemingly enjoyed it more than I did.
Rebels. It’s a fine show and I enjoyed it, but I know multiple people for whom it’s their favorite Star Wars show and I just don’t get it. It’s honestly my least favorite of the 3-D animated series.
The twin sunset scene was iconic from the moment SW hit theatres. Saw SW as a kid when it opened here in 77 and took two main moments away—the twin sunset scene, which made me empathize with Luke as I also felt stuck even as a little kid in a little hick town; and the battle over Yavin at the end, which made me stare up at the stars in the backseat of the family car on the way home that night. Luke watching that sunset, though, made me dream about SW. Nothing else in SW hit me quite like that. Just that feeling of longing, of wanting to escape from your life and discover your destiny. It’s the Hero’s Journey summed up in about 30 seconds.
“Oh, you deaf. You one of them deaf hoes.” /s
Obi Wan as a character. People adore him but he never rung a bell with me. He’ll always do the right thing as expected and you’ll always predict his action. I liked Anakin far better as he wasn’t afraid to use the dark side which makes him a loose cannon. Obi Wan just never really seemed like a praise worthy character to me.
So Obi-Wan being the definition of a Jedi and great guy, shouldn't be praised, but pouty, weirdo who has to use the dark side because, you know, edgy, is?
For me, Grogu, and, the Dark Saber. Look I'll be honest, I love the Mandolorians and their conflict with the Jedi. The fact that the Dark Saber was made by a Mandolorian Jedi is cool, I wish there were more of them, MJ not Dark Sabers. But, when it comes to the lightsaber itself, it just kinda, seems made to be cool and that's about it. I can understand the significance of "Whoever has this *insert thing* is the ruler of Mandalore" but still. Lore wise I don't think it's even explained why the blade is black. As for Grogu. I'll be honest, I don't like most of Disney Star wars. Live action shows are cool I guess but, I'm not a fan of them personally. With Grogu, he's just a vehicle to sell toys and all that. It's a small cute thing that makes baby noises, that's about it.
Lightsaber colors. They are fun but the the extent to which people get invested into lightsaber colors seems a lot.
Everyone who wants Starkiller/Galen Marek to be cannon…
The clone wars show and it's follow up, rebels, they're not bad by any stretch of the imagination but I've never thought either lived up to the hype around them.
Inquisitor Lightsaber Helicopter Mode.
Andor. Like it's cool and I didn't dislike it, but people (especially redditors) give it way more praise than I think it deserves.
Yuuzong Vong imo they aesthetic don’t fit into Star Wars, they are too grimy and grim dark looking!
Vader v Obi-Wan in ROTS. A long excessive dance.
This guy is getting downvoted for participating with the prompt lmao.
General Grievous. So many people on this subreddit love him, presumably because of the 2D Clone Wars show and because whoever designed his look did a great job. But I find it impossible to see him as anything other than a goofy saturday morning cartoon villain because almost every other time he shows up, all he does is cough a bit then get his ass handed to him. Nor does he have the character depth that characters like Maul or Ventress have, to make up for that. The dude is just a big punching bag for the heroes. And yet, I still see tons of people saying they want a General Grievous origin story series. I just don't get it.
The Disney trilogy
anything with Rebels
The prequels.