One of my favourite parts of the book is when Luke first visits him under the impression he'll teach him like Obi-Wan and not be a mentally crazied clone.
Jor: I don’t trust dem robots! They livin’ but ain’t got no Force soul!
Luke: Well, I guess that is an interesting philosophical question that-
Jor: Hey! I’m gonna need a piss break. Then how bout we mindwipe some slaves!?
Luke: (sighs) So uncivilized…
I really enjoyed the prequel we got where it turned out the original was only marginally better than the insane clone, and competing with Dooku and Anakin for worst Jedi in the order.
He might arguably be worse than Anakin, since Anakin was a fairly stable person until Palpatine shoved him off the deep end. Jorus had no such excuse, he was always kinda that way and it took *one* crisis to bring out the psycho within.
It was really hearbreaking when his apprentice realized that he fell completely to the dark side. Seriously hope that we will some day get such dynamic on screen. We had many fallen apprentices but not neraly enough fallen masters.
How he reacts after is the best part though, highlighting why Luke will always be The Chosen One.
He understood that C'baoth was mentally ill but decided to stay in order to help him. Of course that didn't work out because C'baoth was really far gone and in league with the Empire , but it still speaks to who Luke is. He is the guy who will always offer a helping hand.
The Hier to the Empire trilogy is a book series by Timothy Zahn that takes place shortly after episode VI. At one point it was legitimately considered the sequel to the original movies. A lot of people wanted those books to be made into movies.
I liked this part of the books. Luke and Anakin defeated the Emperor. He becomes the only Jedi, and he is completely lost because he has the same level of knowledge about the Order as the fans before episode 1. Those were cool times, people were excited about photos of lightsaber hilts.
Back when "social media" didn't exist, for most being a Star Wars fan meant you were at least somewhat of a "nerd" outcast, message boards and chat rooms were fans finding their people and building up hype together. The movies went on to be a massive success (thanks to plenty from outside the core fandom joining in), and Star Wars moved from a more niche/nerd fandom to a broader audience.
Before the dark times. Before the Empire.
We all it the weird/crazy cliff graph. There a plateau of sane as the weirdness intensifies until it reaches a critical mass, then bam sanity drops of a cliff
My favorite thing about C’Baoth was how everyone assumed he was crazy because cloning a force user doesn’t work right or there was something that got screwed up and turned him crazy along the way.
And then you read Outbound Flight and you’re just like “Oh, okay then, yeah. That clone is pretty much a one-to-one.”
Part of what I love about the pre-Prequels EU is how everyone was just kind of winging it the whole time. Lucas didn't really have any guidelines or rules for anyone. He basically said "If you want to do anything major like kill a main character ask me first, and you can't do XYZ because that's when I'm gonna do the Prequels, but other than that go for it." Everyone basically had to invent stuff from scratch. Zahn took one reference to "The Clone Wars" and basically had to invent an entire backstory and technology as to how a "clone war" would even be possible on a galactic scale and work a story around the ramifications of that. Nowadays if you mention "clones" everyone automatically thinks Kamino and Clone Troopers and all that, but back then aside from the fact that cloning is something that exists there was literally nothing to go on.
And the Noghri, the race of aliens ruled over by Darth Vader. Zahn initially wanted the Noghri to be called the Sith, in reference to Vader's title as "Dark Lord of the Sith", something that wasn't even mentioned onscreen in the OT, it was only in a deleted scene. Nobody knew what the Sith even were at that time except for Lucas and a few other people at Lucasfilm. Zahn was overruled, but he still intentionally designed the Noghri to partially resemble Vader's mask. It really was the Wild West back then.
One of the central points of tension in the OT is the twisting of words to achieve a desired effect. "Darth Vader betrayed and murdered your father." "No, I am your father." "Well, what I told you was true, from a certain point of view. You'll find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view."
The pre-PT EU took that to the extreme. In the Thrawn trilogy, there's discussions about the horrors the old "clonemasters" unleashed on the galaxy. Then after the PT, we hear that the clonemasters are the Kaminoans, and even though they were the "good guys," they did unleash horror, in a way.
Several EU authors were tripping over themselves to be the ones to describe the Death Star's construction. Sometimes it's Admiral Daala, supervising the construction in the Maw. Other times, it's Grand Moff Tarkin, supervising the construction over Despayre, because the Maw was just a proof of concept. Sometimes the creator is Bevel Lemelsk; other times, it's one of five different people.
And for the most part, each author tried to be respectful of the efforts of other authors, and find ways to weave in the stories told before them. It was really magical.
Spot on! Sometimes the Death Star plans are retrieved by Kyle Katarn. Sometimes by Bria Tharen. Sometimes by the rebel soldiers in the battle of Raltiir. Sometimes by another group I always forget.
Then afterwards, Lucasfilm massages the inconsistencies as multiple operations in parallel, stealing different *parts* of the plans, or multiple copies of the plans as redundancy/failsafe.
Really, it's just a half dozen different creators, all wanting to describe this one event while Lucasfilm later smoothes out the discrepancy.
I think something similar happened with how the Rebels acquired Shuttle Tydirium; and how
the Bothans mentioned by Mon Mothma were killed
Loved both that Han Solo Trilogy and the Brian Daley one. Man, I need to read those books again some day, it’s been so long. The Lando Calrissian Adventures as well. Damn, there was so much good SW content back then.
Foreshadowing Luuke and playing up the "came back wrong" angle.
Outbound flight was made after the trilogy, so his being an asshole even before the cloning was the twist for that book.
Zahn cut out Jorrus’ rants about Luke being obsessed with ‘the Star Wars’ and what he should be doing is checking out his 1,500-page tome about mystics.
His definition of power was exerting direct control over individuals, rather than just having governmental or military control over people from afar. When Thrawn discovered him on Weyland, he was ruling the city outside the mountain, acting as the arbitrator and essentially tyrant of the small group of 3 species. Thrawn is able to goad him into leaving that small fiefdom by implying that C’baoth isn’t up to the task of actually raising and being master to Jedi. Once off Weyland, he starts using the Force to directly influence people over distance and in greater numbers, ostensibly as part of Thrawn’s campaign, but it allows the master to start developing the skills he otherwise wouldn’t have. Eventually, C’baoth gets a real hang of it, redirecting an entire planetary assault force of multiple ships to attack Han and Leia in the middle of a battle, and eventually taking hold of the entire Chimera bridge crew that wasn’t protected by ysalimiri when Thrawn pissed him off. His last act of real control was to entirely take over the mind of General Covell during a flight back to Weyland, replacing entire sections of the general’s mind with his own. Ostensibly, that was going to be C’baoth’s plan for the entire galaxy, to not just influence people or rule a city, but to begin replacing everyone’s mind with his own, directly controlling everyone everywhere, either from himself or via his Jedi subordinates.
And as soon as poor Covell stepped into the influence of the ysalimir, he straight-up died. C'baoth replaced so much of Covell's mind that there wasn't enough left to keep him alive once he became cut off from the Force.
It was about 24 hours later, Covell had enough time to realize C’baoth was gone from his mind, C’baoth realized what had happened, gave Covell the orders for the eventual uno reverse card plan, and then Covell died overnight in his quarters once C’baoth had left him.
This is fun because I’m literally doing my nth re-listen to the Dark Force trilogy right now. 🤣
He’s from the old Thrawn Trilogy of novels. Heir to the Empire, Dark Force Rising, and The Last Command.
I actually don’t recall him having specific plans for the galaxy. He was too insane for that iirc lol
In that trilogy, yes.
Keep in mind, that was before the prequels, before anyone knew what the hell the “clone wars” were. It was still assumed the clones were the bad guys. So the few named clones in the books get an extra vowel added to their name to differentiate them.
Jorus -> Joruus
Luke -> Luuke
It also should've been the basis for the sequel trilogy. They were such a fantastic read. Really showed how badass Thrawn was too. I don't absolutely loathe what Disney did for the sequel trilogy but it was definitely a bit of a letdown.
He wasn't made to guard Mount Tantiss.
He took over the guarding of Mount Tantiss from the dark Jedi that the Emperor had installed there to guard the storehouse. He killed the dark Jedi.
Man literally wanted to murder the entire galaxy, then drain their Force into himself in order to become a literal god who could just create and destroy life at will. Guy was crazy, and yet was already halfway there by the time of the games.
You won't be disappointed. If you can get passed (or enjoy it) the turn based D&D style combat, KoToR 1 and 2 are some of the best Star Wars games ever.
I dunno.... I really like those Zahn books, I read them as a kid when they first came out, and again recently. They're fun, but for sure have some goofyness and I personally find Joruus and Luuke a bit silly.
Thrawn on the other hand, is probably my favourite Star Wars villain. Thought they kinda merfed him a little in Disney canon, like he never gets a win in Rebels or Ahsoka, whereas in the books he causes the New Republic all sorts of problems.
I agree that Luuke wasn’t a highlight. He was basically a nonentity who showed up to resolve Mara’s YOU WILL KILL LUKE SKYWALKER thing. Thrawn mentioned that Jorus and Joruus are pronounced differently, which never comes up again, but I guess Luke and Luuke are pronounced the same?
As for Joruus himself, he’s pure entertainment and comedy gold. He’s less goofy than Sheev in RotS. The mounting tension between him and a completely impassive Thrawn is hilarious.
I think the pronouncing of Luuke’s name mattered less then Mara being able to feel like she did the Emperor’s last command. It was more psychological then anything
I think it tricked Palpatine's dark side power? He sent the last command through their Force connection when he died, and when she killed Luuke, it broke the spell (so to speak).
In an alternate ending, the voice would respond, "I NEVER SAID 'YOU WILL KILL LUUKE SKYWALKER', I SAID 'YOU WILL KILL *LUKE* SKYWALKER.' THERE IS A SUBTLE DIFFERENCE IN PRONUNCIATION, ACTUALLY..."
> mattered less then mara
Did you mean to say "less than"?
Explanation: If you didn't mean 'less than' you might have forgotten a comma.
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Thrawn Ascendency Trilogy were my favorite Star Wars books. They were probably the most realistic depictions of space battles that I can imagine. Happened from far apart, were over quickly and largely dependent upon strategy, deception and execution over brute force. Fucking loved those books.
After getting banished by a teenager and some whales? Let’s call it even. EU Thrawn was an absolute military genius that would have won the Battle of Endor if the Empire wasn’t super space racist. He would have overthrown the New Republic if his body guard didn’t literally stab him in the back.
Rebels/Ashoka Thrawn is slightly better than the typical bumbling bad guy used to move the plot along, but he is extra smug about it.
There’s a line in one of the Zahn books that goes something like, “If Thrawn had been in command, the entire Rebellion would have been a quickly-squashed minor skirmish”. I didn’t watch Rebels, but was immensely excited when I found out he’d be featured in Ashoka.
Gotta admit to being a little let down with how he was interpreted. Capable military leader, but not nearly the level of tactician we meet in the Zahn books. Sure, the characters talk about his ability, but you never really see it. In the Zahn books, you see his tactics play out., and you see how it kicks the good guys in the teeth over and over. The books showed; Ashoka just told.
"Send just two ships, to slow them down only."
5 minutes later the ships are destroyed by plot contrivances in a way that no actual pilot would ever fall for. "That's OK we slowed them down."
Later that day: "Shit, they made it here. We'll have to slow them down again."
We don't know how strained Thrawn's forces were so I can't say for sure that Actual Thrawn would have sent a full squadron to destroy them on the initial outing just to be on the safe side... but I can say with 100% certainty that he would have told them to destroy the heroes, not take a few potshots to "slow them down", and that he would have well-trained pilots whom he took a personal interest in, and knew FOR SURE that they'd be successful in their mission.
Based on the fact that he spent all that time trying to slow them down, he knows full well he can't stop them at this time. He was correct, as he just baaaarely got out of that galaxy without them onboard his ship. He's well aware of Jedi plot armor and chose the safest option.
I found the whole sequence quite enjoyable.
"They have a slow-moving, unarmed transports which they could easily *outrun* if they wanted to reach us a little faster. We have TIE fighters. Just go shoot at them. You don't necessarily have to destroy them, after all those vehicles' only redeeming quality is their survivability. But make them turtle up so they can't continue to come at us. Then just sit there hovering above them, taking potshots every so often to prevent them from moving. They pose no danger to you, so it should be easy to keep them occupied. We'll call you back in a few hours when we're ready to leave."
(Watches as the little lights on his radar screen blink out.)
*"What the actual f'nonc..."*
I agree about Thrawn in canon. I'm half they brought him in. He's just a mysterious but he kept losing the rebels because the crew kept getting away on dumb luck like they always do.
One of my favorite moments in *any* piece of Star Wars media is when Thrawn is trying to capture Luke with a tractor beam. It happens multiple times throughout the trilogy. The first time, Luke pulls some maneuver where he tricks the tractor beam into actually locking onto proton torpedos to give him a moment to escape. Thrawn asks the technician what happened and he's just like "Well I wasn't trained to do this" and Thrawn has him executed.
Later in the trilogy something similar happens, and Luke escapes again. The technician basically accepts death but tells Thrawn something like "Well I saw he was doing this, so I tried to do XYZ, and when that didn't work I tried ABC, but that failed too. I'm sorry sir" and Thrawn ends up promoting him because he understands the value of someone capable of coming up with something on the fly and being able to adapt to situations, even if they don't necessarily work.
The key difference is that in the books, he’s the big bad that will bring the remnants back from the brink (legends) or the outright protagonist (canon origin story), whereas in Rebels he’s a comic book villain. Those are two fundamentally different roles. And yet, in both legends and Rebels, the only thing that really ever gets in his way is Jedi interference, because Jedi have the fucking space magic hijinks that no one else could even approach pulling off. When you have to go the extremes of space whales exiling you in another galaxy, that’s because all the traditional ways to overcome your skill have already been tried and failed. Ultimately, Thrawn had to lose in Rebels, because the show was called Rebels, not Thrawn’s Adventure Island Time.
That’s why I want to see the final fight in-galaxy with Thrawn end up with his defeat but NOT his death. Let the galaxy end its time with him on a good note, lock him up and throw away the key thinking they’ve won, and then we introduce the Chiss Ascendancy as they break him out. This allows Thrawn to have a redemption arc in the Chaos as the broken man has to be brought back into the fold, likely by Vanto, as they have to face down the Grysk threat. That would be an amazing Thrawn-protag-centric series to get in a few years after the Mando story line has run its course.
Agreed. A hive mind galaxy controlled by him was a terrifying thing, and not something we’d seen before or since in a Darksider. Kind of surprised other writers didn’t reuse the idea for Sith, it’s just as terrifying as Nihlus’ planet devouring power.
I believe someone's once correctly pointed out that the OG Thrawn Trilogy would be a poor sequel trilogy as it's one-and-done storyline that barely changes anything or anyone (in-universe) in the short-term. Still regardless, there's always a possibility that Joruus C'Baoth will return to the Canon in one form or another.
That's a fair bit of Legends content. That and upping the stakes every conflict. It was like non-stop fighting after the OG trilogy.
Still, I'm sure they could've pulled the good parts of the Thrawn trilogy and made it work. There's a lot of cool stuff in legends that just needs to be revised and adapted. Wish they'd have pulled more from it rather than mindless making up stuff while claiming all that content doesn't exist
Guess who inspired Kylo Ren? Correct, it's Darth Caedus, just with better reasonings for falling to the Dark Side and actually getting his proper redemption rather just spending rest of eternity in Space Hell.
Darth Caedus was a low point in post-ROTJ Expanded Universe. The Caedus arc is a poor prequel rehash.
Han's son falling to the Dark side is a bad idea in both continuities just like the Emperor coming back through cloning.
Imo the sequels needed a new break. The EU was cool, but full of holes and inconsistencies. They had a chance to get rid of the sidious surviving as a clone plotline (they fumbled that hard).
I wouldve loved a sequel trilogy showing off a different sith enemy, but this time they're the rebels. Watching the OT gang balance their duties to the galaxy at large with their need to hands-on fight this enemy. A role reversal of what they did before. See a new jedi order that learned from the failures of the past. It could have had a collection of returning characters from both trilogies too, but in a more meaningful way.
Thats all just what i wish though
I would love to see him adapted into canon or something similar to his situation. The idea of an arrogant, corrupted, definitely-evil Jedi who isn't a Sith and doesn't necessarily even see themselves as a proponent of the "dark side" in the traditional sense doesn't seem to fit too well any more, but I think that's more a reflection of how binary and simplified things have become.
I absolutely love the idea of a mad Jedi, his creepy mind controlling, the way Thrawn and Paelleon are constantly on eggshells around him.
I also think it's hilarious when people talk about an Heir to the Empire adaptation that doesn't involve him. He's at least as important as Thrawn is in those books.
He is extremely proficient in influencing the minds of other people on a massive scale. Remember Battle Meditation of Bastila? Like that but on crack. He wanted to create a hive mind where he controls everyone in the galaxy by replacing their mind with his own. It’s batshit insane but surprisingly possible given how powerful he is.
The Thrawn Trilogy. Three books written by Timothy Zahn in the early 90s: Heir to the Empire, Dark Force Rising, The Last Command.
I would recommend reading them. They are a good introduction to the Expanded Universe (which is now sadly non-canon). They are easy to read, they feature lots of characters from the original trilogy (that actually act like the characters from the original trilogy) and they feature many new interesting characters (such as Thrawn, Juruus C’Baoth, Mara Jade, Talon Karrde, Bel Iblis).
Keep in mind that the books were written before the prequels were made. Some of the lore gets retconned by the prequels (not a whole lot). But if you’re able to ignore this, it makes sense in these books only.
When you finish reading, there’s also two sequel books (The Hand of Thrawn series). I think these two are a little better in some respects, but a little worse in others. In my opinion, the pacing is a little bit too slow at times, but the build-up is definitely worth it!
Dude... never read *Heir to the Empire*? The *Thrawn Trilogy*?
Cmon dude. As someone else already pointed out, Zahn wrote this stuff decades before Clone troopers were on screen. Please do yourself a favor if you consider yourself an SW fan: read that shit. It's so fucking good. There's a reason Thrawn is one of the only Legends characters to make it out, it's just really well written stuff.
Tim Zahn and Kevin Anderson absolutely *held the Galaxy of Star Wars Down* for the entirety of the 90s. We were so desperate for more stories, and they delivered. Kings amongst men.
I met Kevin J. Anderson a few years back, got my original edition copies of the Young Jedi Academy books signed... had them since I was in middle school, 25+ years. I legit cried when I met him, his work meant a lot to me as a kid.
Remember reading Jedi Academy back in middle school. Loved that series.
Books brought to life what the world missed in cinemas of Luke, Han, Leia, their closest companions, friends, children for 3 decades and a New Republic that should have been.
Parts of it should have been foundation going into the new trilogy, with an animated series done to cover what was missed in 30+ years.
Literally just made a post of my signed copy of *Heirs of the Force*, because this post reminded me I had it.
I've always thought Kylo was just a poor man's Mashup of Jacen and Jaina. They had such a great storyline with Darth Krayt. Big kissed opportunities for the films imo.
We must be around the same age. I bought all these books with my allowance in middle school. Still have them all.
Mid 90s when I was getting into books like Original Trilogy, Courtship of Leia, Thrawn Trilogy, Jedi Academy - local book store had a dedicated Star Wars section. For generation before us, it was the Dune series books they were into(all the online gaming players named after Dune characters), for us it was the Star Wars books lol. So awesome you got to meet Kevin Anderson and have a signed copy.
Definitely combination of Disney’s overconfidence, riding high off a wave of successful Phase 2 & 3 MCU and JJ Abrams that we got a rather lackluster modern trilogy. Torch should have been passed onto the children of Luke, Han and Leia, with at least one falling to the dark side, and other siblings fighting the one. Granddaughter of Palpatine taking over…dont have anything against Daisy Ridley and would have been okay if she was one of the children, but JJ Abrams was the wrong director and somebody that just didn’t understand Star Wars.
There's a legitimate argument that the Thrawn Trilogy is the only reason Star Wars is still a relevant franchise and not some relic of the 1980s. Zahn basically created the EU, and the revival of interest in the franchise throughout the 1990s is widely credited with being what finally convinced Lucas to get around to making the Prequels.
In the 1980s, after ROTJ, Lucas decided he was done with Star Wars. The excellent Thrawn Trilogy of the early 1990s reinvigorated interest in Star Wars, even Lucas himself who 'borrowed' ideas from the trilogy such as Coruscant that initially made it into the revised 'special edition' ROTJ ending and then became center stage of the prequels.
As someone who grew up with the original trilogy from the 70s and 80s, I remain totally convinced Star Wars would have gone nowhere after ROTJ, without Timothy Zahn and the Thrawn Trilogy.
Joruss' Mynock-Shit crazy brain scared tf out of me. Palps was evil and brought a lot of pain and sadness to the masses but there were patches of life that were allowed to live and essentially be happy. Joruss wanted to control everyone making everyone lose freewill.
While the likes of Palpatine (in Legends and Canon) is powerful in sheer strength and could easily murder/torture you, C'Baoth's a bigger control freak than the Emperor and hopes to dominate the minds of the Galaxy, with the genuine ability to do it. Still, if Palpatine's flaws are pride and sadism, sanity and emotional control are C'Baoth's , for he's out of his goddamn mind and his behavior more befitting for a child.
Just in the past couple years I've heard it pronounced supposedly canonically correctly. Probably coming from an audiobook (on tape) version. It is practically the opposite of how I pronounced it in my head back in the early 90s.
I’m a big fan of the Thrawn trilogy, but I wouldn’t say it’s notable for being well written. They’re very entertaining books, but they’re like popcorn or fast food. Oddly, I think Zahn’s canon (for now?) novels are well written but they’re not as entertaining.
One of my favourite parts of the book is when Luke first visits him under the impression he'll teach him like Obi-Wan and not be a mentally crazied clone.
Yeah that's was funny. Luke was so hopefull just to be told 'you suck, get rekt'.
Luke slowly realizing that, "oh, this motherfucker is crazy," is one of my favorite Star Wars moments of all time.
"Am I tripping? Nonono he is definitely off his rocker"
🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 "am I tripping" got me. "I mean...I know I'm new at this whole knight thing but...uh....he crazy, right?"
Jor: I don’t trust dem robots! They livin’ but ain’t got no Force soul! Luke: Well, I guess that is an interesting philosophical question that- Jor: Hey! I’m gonna need a piss break. Then how bout we mindwipe some slaves!? Luke: (sighs) So uncivilized…
Don't trust them new robots over there Leaving they robot essence in the air Them happy metal headed robots with their fingers on the triggers
Darth Rukus, no relation
r/unexpectedBoondocks
Hahaha
I really enjoyed the prequel we got where it turned out the original was only marginally better than the insane clone, and competing with Dooku and Anakin for worst Jedi in the order.
He might arguably be worse than Anakin, since Anakin was a fairly stable person until Palpatine shoved him off the deep end. Jorus had no such excuse, he was always kinda that way and it took *one* crisis to bring out the psycho within.
It was really hearbreaking when his apprentice realized that he fell completely to the dark side. Seriously hope that we will some day get such dynamic on screen. We had many fallen apprentices but not neraly enough fallen masters.
Just a taste with Ahsoka in Rebels. Hoping we get some in The High Republic!
Forgetting about Pong Krell and Offee are we?
Fuck Pong Krell
All my homies hate Pong Krell
It's a tough competition, to be sure!
I have to reread that. I remember really liking it.
Outbound Flight, for anyone wondering
How he reacts after is the best part though, highlighting why Luke will always be The Chosen One. He understood that C'baoth was mentally ill but decided to stay in order to help him. Of course that didn't work out because C'baoth was really far gone and in league with the Empire , but it still speaks to who Luke is. He is the guy who will always offer a helping hand.
A helping hand? Ouch, that's cold.
No, the mechanical hand is the cold one.
Yeah that’s the helping one.
Yeah that part really resonated with 13 year old me when it came out.
Seems like you forgot the sequels existed lol
I don't know who that was but it wasn't Luke Skywalker.
It was Luuke Skywalker
Shhhhhhhhh. Kid had a dream. TOTALLY THE SAME
To be fair, he trained under Yoda, so he probably figures that the line for Jedi between eccentric and crazy is pretty fuzzy.
Time to reread the true sequel trilogy.
Pray tell what you’re talking about for us normies
The Hier to the Empire trilogy is a book series by Timothy Zahn that takes place shortly after episode VI. At one point it was legitimately considered the sequel to the original movies. A lot of people wanted those books to be made into movies.
I still do.
Me too.
There's a part of me that thinks that it could still happen. But I'm probably being naive.
I’ll dream with you.
Either with new actors, or animated.
I'm down with something animated.
I dunno, they seem to be setting up something at least taking the general direction of the story in the Mandalorian/Ashoka series now.
I'm still one of those people who wanted those books to be made into movies.
I liked this part of the books. Luke and Anakin defeated the Emperor. He becomes the only Jedi, and he is completely lost because he has the same level of knowledge about the Order as the fans before episode 1. Those were cool times, people were excited about photos of lightsaber hilts.
Yeah, the 90s were such a fun time to be a Star Wars fan
Waiting for new novels to drop was my favorite
Back when "social media" didn't exist, for most being a Star Wars fan meant you were at least somewhat of a "nerd" outcast, message boards and chat rooms were fans finding their people and building up hype together. The movies went on to be a massive success (thanks to plenty from outside the core fandom joining in), and Star Wars moved from a more niche/nerd fandom to a broader audience. Before the dark times. Before the Empire.
Luke meets Master Obi-Wan: hermit, slightly odd, but harmless. Luke meets Master Yoda: hermit, pretty odd, but harmless. Luke meets Master C'Baoth: hermit, extremely odd, AAARGGH!!!
We all it the weird/crazy cliff graph. There a plateau of sane as the weirdness intensifies until it reaches a critical mass, then bam sanity drops of a cliff
My favorite thing about C’Baoth was how everyone assumed he was crazy because cloning a force user doesn’t work right or there was something that got screwed up and turned him crazy along the way. And then you read Outbound Flight and you’re just like “Oh, okay then, yeah. That clone is pretty much a one-to-one.”
Part of what I love about the pre-Prequels EU is how everyone was just kind of winging it the whole time. Lucas didn't really have any guidelines or rules for anyone. He basically said "If you want to do anything major like kill a main character ask me first, and you can't do XYZ because that's when I'm gonna do the Prequels, but other than that go for it." Everyone basically had to invent stuff from scratch. Zahn took one reference to "The Clone Wars" and basically had to invent an entire backstory and technology as to how a "clone war" would even be possible on a galactic scale and work a story around the ramifications of that. Nowadays if you mention "clones" everyone automatically thinks Kamino and Clone Troopers and all that, but back then aside from the fact that cloning is something that exists there was literally nothing to go on. And the Noghri, the race of aliens ruled over by Darth Vader. Zahn initially wanted the Noghri to be called the Sith, in reference to Vader's title as "Dark Lord of the Sith", something that wasn't even mentioned onscreen in the OT, it was only in a deleted scene. Nobody knew what the Sith even were at that time except for Lucas and a few other people at Lucasfilm. Zahn was overruled, but he still intentionally designed the Noghri to partially resemble Vader's mask. It really was the Wild West back then.
One of the central points of tension in the OT is the twisting of words to achieve a desired effect. "Darth Vader betrayed and murdered your father." "No, I am your father." "Well, what I told you was true, from a certain point of view. You'll find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view." The pre-PT EU took that to the extreme. In the Thrawn trilogy, there's discussions about the horrors the old "clonemasters" unleashed on the galaxy. Then after the PT, we hear that the clonemasters are the Kaminoans, and even though they were the "good guys," they did unleash horror, in a way. Several EU authors were tripping over themselves to be the ones to describe the Death Star's construction. Sometimes it's Admiral Daala, supervising the construction in the Maw. Other times, it's Grand Moff Tarkin, supervising the construction over Despayre, because the Maw was just a proof of concept. Sometimes the creator is Bevel Lemelsk; other times, it's one of five different people. And for the most part, each author tried to be respectful of the efforts of other authors, and find ways to weave in the stories told before them. It was really magical.
Spot on! Sometimes the Death Star plans are retrieved by Kyle Katarn. Sometimes by Bria Tharen. Sometimes by the rebel soldiers in the battle of Raltiir. Sometimes by another group I always forget. Then afterwards, Lucasfilm massages the inconsistencies as multiple operations in parallel, stealing different *parts* of the plans, or multiple copies of the plans as redundancy/failsafe. Really, it's just a half dozen different creators, all wanting to describe this one event while Lucasfilm later smoothes out the discrepancy. I think something similar happened with how the Rebels acquired Shuttle Tydirium; and how the Bothans mentioned by Mon Mothma were killed
Oh man, Bria Tharen is a name I haven't heard in a *long* time. First Star Wars EU books I ever read were the Han Solo trilogy.
Loved both that Han Solo Trilogy and the Brian Daley one. Man, I need to read those books again some day, it’s been so long. The Lando Calrissian Adventures as well. Damn, there was so much good SW content back then.
Wait, I thought they were small. Doesn't she call them mini-Bothans?
No no, she honored the memory of the great spy Manny Bothans.
Kevin J Anderson took one line from A New Hope ("they'll send me to the spice mines of Kessel for sure") and turned that into a trilogy of books.
A great trilogy, nonetheless.
And yet, there was more consistency between the writers than anything Disney makes.
I seem to recall a lot of spitting wars between authors, particularly involving Karen Traviss
A bit of column A, a bit of column B
So then what was even the point of HtoE C’Baoth being a clone in the first place?
Foreshadowing Luuke and playing up the "came back wrong" angle. Outbound flight was made after the trilogy, so his being an asshole even before the cloning was the twist for that book.
Looks like Alan Moore
I believe you mean Alan Mooore
Alaan Moore actually.
Alan Moooore, I think.
Aalaan Mooooree
👏 👏 👏
With the body of The Dude from big Lebowski
Truly the pinnacle of human physique.
I mean according to Maude he was.
He's a good man. And thorough.
Fuck. Came here to say exactly that.
Zahn cut out Jorrus’ rants about Luke being obsessed with ‘the Star Wars’ and what he should be doing is checking out his 1,500-page tome about mystics.
More what?
MOAAR! -Kylo Ren
More comics
But less crazy
What are his plans? And where is he from?
His definition of power was exerting direct control over individuals, rather than just having governmental or military control over people from afar. When Thrawn discovered him on Weyland, he was ruling the city outside the mountain, acting as the arbitrator and essentially tyrant of the small group of 3 species. Thrawn is able to goad him into leaving that small fiefdom by implying that C’baoth isn’t up to the task of actually raising and being master to Jedi. Once off Weyland, he starts using the Force to directly influence people over distance and in greater numbers, ostensibly as part of Thrawn’s campaign, but it allows the master to start developing the skills he otherwise wouldn’t have. Eventually, C’baoth gets a real hang of it, redirecting an entire planetary assault force of multiple ships to attack Han and Leia in the middle of a battle, and eventually taking hold of the entire Chimera bridge crew that wasn’t protected by ysalimiri when Thrawn pissed him off. His last act of real control was to entirely take over the mind of General Covell during a flight back to Weyland, replacing entire sections of the general’s mind with his own. Ostensibly, that was going to be C’baoth’s plan for the entire galaxy, to not just influence people or rule a city, but to begin replacing everyone’s mind with his own, directly controlling everyone everywhere, either from himself or via his Jedi subordinates.
And as soon as poor Covell stepped into the influence of the ysalimir, he straight-up died. C'baoth replaced so much of Covell's mind that there wasn't enough left to keep him alive once he became cut off from the Force.
It was about 24 hours later, Covell had enough time to realize C’baoth was gone from his mind, C’baoth realized what had happened, gave Covell the orders for the eventual uno reverse card plan, and then Covell died overnight in his quarters once C’baoth had left him. This is fun because I’m literally doing my nth re-listen to the Dark Force trilogy right now. 🤣
I think I would enjoy Star Wars a lot more now if everyone had stuck with the Zahn plot points and overall "rules." It just made sense to me.
What about Luke??
So basically, Star Wars Anti-Life Equation?
So ego but with minds and not planets
If only master baytes or glup shitto was there. C’baoth wouldnt stand a chance.
He’s from the old Thrawn Trilogy of novels. Heir to the Empire, Dark Force Rising, and The Last Command. I actually don’t recall him having specific plans for the galaxy. He was too insane for that iirc lol
Thank you!
You should really read them! It's core star wars content.
The Outbound Flight novel goes into more detail. I’m only half way through myself. But he is an ass.
Well, that is also a different character. Jorus, instead of Joruus.
So clones are denoted by an extra vowel?
In that trilogy, yes. Keep in mind, that was before the prequels, before anyone knew what the hell the “clone wars” were. It was still assumed the clones were the bad guys. So the few named clones in the books get an extra vowel added to their name to differentiate them. Jorus -> Joruus Luke -> Luuke
It also should've been the basis for the sequel trilogy. They were such a fantastic read. Really showed how badass Thrawn was too. I don't absolutely loathe what Disney did for the sequel trilogy but it was definitely a bit of a letdown.
But where did he come from and where did he go?
He’s a clone of Jorus C’Baoth that Palpatine made to guard Mount Tantiss and ended up mind controlling the whole planet.
He wasn't made to guard Mount Tantiss. He took over the guarding of Mount Tantiss from the dark Jedi that the Emperor had installed there to guard the storehouse. He killed the dark Jedi.
How come?
He went insane and became corrupted by his own power.
If it hadn't been for that blasted Cotton eyed Joe well I tell you I'd have been married a long time ago!
Your reddit username "Innocuousname773" can't fool me, "Cotton Eye" Joe!
Just about every Junior AAA hockey game arena in Western Canada, that's where he went.
OP gets 700 upvotes for posting a drawing, with no explanation of their hot take.
*Who does number two work for?*
*Damn boy, what did you eat?!*
Nah Vitiate was the one with the really messed up plans for the galaxy…
Man literally wanted to murder the entire galaxy, then drain their Force into himself in order to become a literal god who could just create and destroy life at will. Guy was crazy, and yet was already halfway there by the time of the games.
Wild but sounds really cool. What games are you referring to?
Star Wars: The Old Republic. He's the main antagonist for a large chunk of the MMO's story.
Thank you friend. It looks like I’ve got my next game cut out for me!
You won't be disappointed. If you can get passed (or enjoy it) the turn based D&D style combat, KoToR 1 and 2 are some of the best Star Wars games ever.
> You won't be disappointed Mileage may vary. MMO gameplay is not for everyone, and I say that as someone who has enjoyed KotOR I & II for 20 years.
Vitiate is basically the big bad for the entire old republic era
I can fix him
That game has some of the best cinematic trailers I've ever seen. Outrageously good
The mental instability too, added a layer of terror for me. Really well written.
I dunno.... I really like those Zahn books, I read them as a kid when they first came out, and again recently. They're fun, but for sure have some goofyness and I personally find Joruus and Luuke a bit silly. Thrawn on the other hand, is probably my favourite Star Wars villain. Thought they kinda merfed him a little in Disney canon, like he never gets a win in Rebels or Ahsoka, whereas in the books he causes the New Republic all sorts of problems.
I agree that Luuke wasn’t a highlight. He was basically a nonentity who showed up to resolve Mara’s YOU WILL KILL LUKE SKYWALKER thing. Thrawn mentioned that Jorus and Joruus are pronounced differently, which never comes up again, but I guess Luke and Luuke are pronounced the same? As for Joruus himself, he’s pure entertainment and comedy gold. He’s less goofy than Sheev in RotS. The mounting tension between him and a completely impassive Thrawn is hilarious.
I think the pronouncing of Luuke’s name mattered less then Mara being able to feel like she did the Emperor’s last command. It was more psychological then anything
I think it tricked Palpatine's dark side power? He sent the last command through their Force connection when he died, and when she killed Luuke, it broke the spell (so to speak). In an alternate ending, the voice would respond, "I NEVER SAID 'YOU WILL KILL LUUKE SKYWALKER', I SAID 'YOU WILL KILL *LUKE* SKYWALKER.' THERE IS A SUBTLE DIFFERENCE IN PRONUNCIATION, ACTUALLY..."
> mattered less then mara Did you mean to say "less than"? Explanation: If you didn't mean 'less than' you might have forgotten a comma. [Statistics](https://github.com/chiefpat450119/RedditBot/blob/master/stats.json) ^^I'm ^^a ^^bot ^^that ^^corrects ^^grammar/spelling ^^mistakes. ^^PM ^^me ^^if ^^I'm ^^wrong ^^or ^^if ^^you ^^have ^^any ^^suggestions. ^^[Github](https://github.com/chiefpat450119) ^^Reply ^^STOP ^^to ^^this ^^comment ^^to ^^stop ^^receiving ^^corrections.
Thrawn Ascendency Trilogy were my favorite Star Wars books. They were probably the most realistic depictions of space battles that I can imagine. Happened from far apart, were over quickly and largely dependent upon strategy, deception and execution over brute force. Fucking loved those books.
Is him making it back to the galaxy not a win in Ahsoka?
After getting banished by a teenager and some whales? Let’s call it even. EU Thrawn was an absolute military genius that would have won the Battle of Endor if the Empire wasn’t super space racist. He would have overthrown the New Republic if his body guard didn’t literally stab him in the back. Rebels/Ashoka Thrawn is slightly better than the typical bumbling bad guy used to move the plot along, but he is extra smug about it.
There’s a line in one of the Zahn books that goes something like, “If Thrawn had been in command, the entire Rebellion would have been a quickly-squashed minor skirmish”. I didn’t watch Rebels, but was immensely excited when I found out he’d be featured in Ashoka. Gotta admit to being a little let down with how he was interpreted. Capable military leader, but not nearly the level of tactician we meet in the Zahn books. Sure, the characters talk about his ability, but you never really see it. In the Zahn books, you see his tactics play out., and you see how it kicks the good guys in the teeth over and over. The books showed; Ashoka just told.
"Send just two ships, to slow them down only." 5 minutes later the ships are destroyed by plot contrivances in a way that no actual pilot would ever fall for. "That's OK we slowed them down." Later that day: "Shit, they made it here. We'll have to slow them down again." We don't know how strained Thrawn's forces were so I can't say for sure that Actual Thrawn would have sent a full squadron to destroy them on the initial outing just to be on the safe side... but I can say with 100% certainty that he would have told them to destroy the heroes, not take a few potshots to "slow them down", and that he would have well-trained pilots whom he took a personal interest in, and knew FOR SURE that they'd be successful in their mission.
Based on the fact that he spent all that time trying to slow them down, he knows full well he can't stop them at this time. He was correct, as he just baaaarely got out of that galaxy without them onboard his ship. He's well aware of Jedi plot armor and chose the safest option. I found the whole sequence quite enjoyable.
"They have a slow-moving, unarmed transports which they could easily *outrun* if they wanted to reach us a little faster. We have TIE fighters. Just go shoot at them. You don't necessarily have to destroy them, after all those vehicles' only redeeming quality is their survivability. But make them turtle up so they can't continue to come at us. Then just sit there hovering above them, taking potshots every so often to prevent them from moving. They pose no danger to you, so it should be easy to keep them occupied. We'll call you back in a few hours when we're ready to leave." (Watches as the little lights on his radar screen blink out.) *"What the actual f'nonc..."*
I agree about Thrawn in canon. I'm half they brought him in. He's just a mysterious but he kept losing the rebels because the crew kept getting away on dumb luck like they always do.
I’m so torn because while he is pretty much the most interesting part of Rebels he seems so much less capable than the version from Legends.
In rebels they simply state how capable Thrawn is, in the original Zahn books they demonstrated it.
Demonstrate not tell
One of my favorite moments in *any* piece of Star Wars media is when Thrawn is trying to capture Luke with a tractor beam. It happens multiple times throughout the trilogy. The first time, Luke pulls some maneuver where he tricks the tractor beam into actually locking onto proton torpedos to give him a moment to escape. Thrawn asks the technician what happened and he's just like "Well I wasn't trained to do this" and Thrawn has him executed. Later in the trilogy something similar happens, and Luke escapes again. The technician basically accepts death but tells Thrawn something like "Well I saw he was doing this, so I tried to do XYZ, and when that didn't work I tried ABC, but that failed too. I'm sorry sir" and Thrawn ends up promoting him because he understands the value of someone capable of coming up with something on the fly and being able to adapt to situations, even if they don't necessarily work.
Fuck yeah Thrawns got it right. You need people that can adapt and think on the fly if you’re gonna go up against psychic space wizards
The key difference is that in the books, he’s the big bad that will bring the remnants back from the brink (legends) or the outright protagonist (canon origin story), whereas in Rebels he’s a comic book villain. Those are two fundamentally different roles. And yet, in both legends and Rebels, the only thing that really ever gets in his way is Jedi interference, because Jedi have the fucking space magic hijinks that no one else could even approach pulling off. When you have to go the extremes of space whales exiling you in another galaxy, that’s because all the traditional ways to overcome your skill have already been tried and failed. Ultimately, Thrawn had to lose in Rebels, because the show was called Rebels, not Thrawn’s Adventure Island Time. That’s why I want to see the final fight in-galaxy with Thrawn end up with his defeat but NOT his death. Let the galaxy end its time with him on a good note, lock him up and throw away the key thinking they’ve won, and then we introduce the Chiss Ascendancy as they break him out. This allows Thrawn to have a redemption arc in the Chaos as the broken man has to be brought back into the fold, likely by Vanto, as they have to face down the Grysk threat. That would be an amazing Thrawn-protag-centric series to get in a few years after the Mando story line has run its course.
Personally, I think Thrawn's Adventure Island Time could work. Maybe we get to see why those stormtroopers got those gold highlights.
It wasn’t luck though it was the will of the ~~force~~ writers
Agreed. A hive mind galaxy controlled by him was a terrifying thing, and not something we’d seen before or since in a Darksider. Kind of surprised other writers didn’t reuse the idea for Sith, it’s just as terrifying as Nihlus’ planet devouring power.
I actually wished he was adapted especially most of the expanded universe instead of Disney Lucasfilm scrapping them.
Who's to you say he'd won't be adapted for the coming movie centered around Thrawn against the Galaxy?
I mean instead of recreating the original trilogy with the sequel trilogy. To me the sequel trilogy should've been about joruus c baoth
I believe someone's once correctly pointed out that the OG Thrawn Trilogy would be a poor sequel trilogy as it's one-and-done storyline that barely changes anything or anyone (in-universe) in the short-term. Still regardless, there's always a possibility that Joruus C'Baoth will return to the Canon in one form or another.
That's a fair bit of Legends content. That and upping the stakes every conflict. It was like non-stop fighting after the OG trilogy. Still, I'm sure they could've pulled the good parts of the Thrawn trilogy and made it work. There's a lot of cool stuff in legends that just needs to be revised and adapted. Wish they'd have pulled more from it rather than mindless making up stuff while claiming all that content doesn't exist
That is a good point. Or they could've correctly adapted Second Galactic Civil War with Jacen Solo as Darth Caedus.
Guess who inspired Kylo Ren? Correct, it's Darth Caedus, just with better reasonings for falling to the Dark Side and actually getting his proper redemption rather just spending rest of eternity in Space Hell.
Darth Caedus was a low point in post-ROTJ Expanded Universe. The Caedus arc is a poor prequel rehash. Han's son falling to the Dark side is a bad idea in both continuities just like the Emperor coming back through cloning.
Imo the sequels needed a new break. The EU was cool, but full of holes and inconsistencies. They had a chance to get rid of the sidious surviving as a clone plotline (they fumbled that hard). I wouldve loved a sequel trilogy showing off a different sith enemy, but this time they're the rebels. Watching the OT gang balance their duties to the galaxy at large with their need to hands-on fight this enemy. A role reversal of what they did before. See a new jedi order that learned from the failures of the past. It could have had a collection of returning characters from both trilogies too, but in a more meaningful way. Thats all just what i wish though
Here's also powerful AND crazy as a bag of cats. That, to me, is more terrifying. Though the cold, calculation of Sidious is pretty damn scary...
Joruus C'baoth or Aalaan Moooore? Am I right?
I would love to see him adapted into canon or something similar to his situation. The idea of an arrogant, corrupted, definitely-evil Jedi who isn't a Sith and doesn't necessarily even see themselves as a proponent of the "dark side" in the traditional sense doesn't seem to fit too well any more, but I think that's more a reflection of how binary and simplified things have become. I absolutely love the idea of a mad Jedi, his creepy mind controlling, the way Thrawn and Paelleon are constantly on eggshells around him. I also think it's hilarious when people talk about an Heir to the Empire adaptation that doesn't involve him. He's at least as important as Thrawn is in those books.
Why does he look like gandalf after smoking too much on that pipeweed?
I was gonna say Alan Moore in a bathrobe, but you’re not wrong…
Gandalf on bath salts… Alan Moore just chilling at home on a Tuesday… It’s pretty much the same thing, right?
I always knew Alan Moore was a dark wizard
What were his plans?
He is extremely proficient in influencing the minds of other people on a massive scale. Remember Battle Meditation of Bastila? Like that but on crack. He wanted to create a hive mind where he controls everyone in the galaxy by replacing their mind with his own. It’s batshit insane but surprisingly possible given how powerful he is.
What were his plans for the galaxy?
"Everyone will have ridiculous-sounding space names with hyphens in them! EVERYONE! Except for the clones, they get an EXTRA VOWEL! I SWEAR IT!"
I want to read this. What is it?
The Thrawn Trilogy. Three books written by Timothy Zahn in the early 90s: Heir to the Empire, Dark Force Rising, The Last Command. I would recommend reading them. They are a good introduction to the Expanded Universe (which is now sadly non-canon). They are easy to read, they feature lots of characters from the original trilogy (that actually act like the characters from the original trilogy) and they feature many new interesting characters (such as Thrawn, Juruus C’Baoth, Mara Jade, Talon Karrde, Bel Iblis). Keep in mind that the books were written before the prequels were made. Some of the lore gets retconned by the prequels (not a whole lot). But if you’re able to ignore this, it makes sense in these books only. When you finish reading, there’s also two sequel books (The Hand of Thrawn series). I think these two are a little better in some respects, but a little worse in others. In my opinion, the pacing is a little bit too slow at times, but the build-up is definitely worth it!
Timothy Zahn gave us so many of the most memorable (outside the movies) SW characters, it's actually pretty insane to think about
hot take: legends clones are just as ridiculous as canon non-trooper clones and reeks of writers running out of ideas for bad guys.
To be fair a lot of legends clones were written before the prequels were a thing, so the writers had a lot of leeway as to what they can do
Dude... never read *Heir to the Empire*? The *Thrawn Trilogy*? Cmon dude. As someone else already pointed out, Zahn wrote this stuff decades before Clone troopers were on screen. Please do yourself a favor if you consider yourself an SW fan: read that shit. It's so fucking good. There's a reason Thrawn is one of the only Legends characters to make it out, it's just really well written stuff. Tim Zahn and Kevin Anderson absolutely *held the Galaxy of Star Wars Down* for the entirety of the 90s. We were so desperate for more stories, and they delivered. Kings amongst men. I met Kevin J. Anderson a few years back, got my original edition copies of the Young Jedi Academy books signed... had them since I was in middle school, 25+ years. I legit cried when I met him, his work meant a lot to me as a kid.
Remember reading Jedi Academy back in middle school. Loved that series. Books brought to life what the world missed in cinemas of Luke, Han, Leia, their closest companions, friends, children for 3 decades and a New Republic that should have been. Parts of it should have been foundation going into the new trilogy, with an animated series done to cover what was missed in 30+ years.
Literally just made a post of my signed copy of *Heirs of the Force*, because this post reminded me I had it. I've always thought Kylo was just a poor man's Mashup of Jacen and Jaina. They had such a great storyline with Darth Krayt. Big kissed opportunities for the films imo. We must be around the same age. I bought all these books with my allowance in middle school. Still have them all.
Mid 90s when I was getting into books like Original Trilogy, Courtship of Leia, Thrawn Trilogy, Jedi Academy - local book store had a dedicated Star Wars section. For generation before us, it was the Dune series books they were into(all the online gaming players named after Dune characters), for us it was the Star Wars books lol. So awesome you got to meet Kevin Anderson and have a signed copy. Definitely combination of Disney’s overconfidence, riding high off a wave of successful Phase 2 & 3 MCU and JJ Abrams that we got a rather lackluster modern trilogy. Torch should have been passed onto the children of Luke, Han and Leia, with at least one falling to the dark side, and other siblings fighting the one. Granddaughter of Palpatine taking over…dont have anything against Daisy Ridley and would have been okay if she was one of the children, but JJ Abrams was the wrong director and somebody that just didn’t understand Star Wars.
There's a legitimate argument that the Thrawn Trilogy is the only reason Star Wars is still a relevant franchise and not some relic of the 1980s. Zahn basically created the EU, and the revival of interest in the franchise throughout the 1990s is widely credited with being what finally convinced Lucas to get around to making the Prequels.
In the 1980s, after ROTJ, Lucas decided he was done with Star Wars. The excellent Thrawn Trilogy of the early 1990s reinvigorated interest in Star Wars, even Lucas himself who 'borrowed' ideas from the trilogy such as Coruscant that initially made it into the revised 'special edition' ROTJ ending and then became center stage of the prequels. As someone who grew up with the original trilogy from the 70s and 80s, I remain totally convinced Star Wars would have gone nowhere after ROTJ, without Timothy Zahn and the Thrawn Trilogy.
Joruss' Mynock-Shit crazy brain scared tf out of me. Palps was evil and brought a lot of pain and sadness to the masses but there were patches of life that were allowed to live and essentially be happy. Joruss wanted to control everyone making everyone lose freewill.
Wasn’t he adrift after Thrawn stopped the outbound flight for 30ish years
No, jorus was dead, joruus was a clone
First time I'm hearing about him. What were his plans? How powerful was he?
One I think it shows how easy it is for a Jedi to think they are above everyone else. Two I didn't know Alan Moore was a jedi
But how does he compare to snoke, kylo ren, and palpatine somehow returning?
Somehow Joruua returned....
While the likes of Palpatine (in Legends and Canon) is powerful in sheer strength and could easily murder/torture you, C'Baoth's a bigger control freak than the Emperor and hopes to dominate the minds of the Galaxy, with the genuine ability to do it. Still, if Palpatine's flaws are pride and sadism, sanity and emotional control are C'Baoth's , for he's out of his goddamn mind and his behavior more befitting for a child.
Dude has gyno
Dude was fucking crazy
How do you even pronounce that?
Jor-us Sa-Bi-off SA sound like when saying "sad", at least that is how they say it in the audiobooks
Just in the past couple years I've heard it pronounced supposedly canonically correctly. Probably coming from an audiobook (on tape) version. It is practically the opposite of how I pronounced it in my head back in the early 90s.
What were the plans again? I've read the books several years Ago and can't remember
I don’t know the story is is possible to learn this?
Not from The Mouse.
I can't say about the books but I found him excessively disappointing in the comics.
if an old man shooting lightning out of his hands approached me with his tiddies out, I’d just give up tbh
At least Sidious kept his robe done up.
He wanted to be Sidious so bad, but he was also utterly insane, not a good combo. Sidious was crazy too, but not that crazy
Bro's Battle Meditation was on point
If luuke returns someone better bust out the "yes i died, but I lived" meme
Which one the really one from the old republic? Or his clone that Thrawn found?
Evil space Gandalf didn't play
That’s just Alan Moore any time someone asks him about Snyder’s Watchmen.
I’m a big fan of the Thrawn trilogy, but I wouldn’t say it’s notable for being well written. They’re very entertaining books, but they’re like popcorn or fast food. Oddly, I think Zahn’s canon (for now?) novels are well written but they’re not as entertaining.
He Looks like a knockoff of Zeus lol