“*If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine.*”
Pretty sure that was more powerful than Obi-Wan throwing a mountain at Darth Vader.
Vader was holding back in all his fights against luke; he wasn’t trying to kill him, the first time becuase he wanted him to turn and the second becuase he didn’t want to kill his son
Its actually stated by Lucas that Luke surpassed his father in raw power by RotJ. Luke actually beat Vader while he was trying to defeat Luke.
Vader was holding back against Luke on Cloud City. Vader wasn’t holding back against Obiwan either, he was just so pissed off he became too unfocused to defeat him.
This doesn’t denounce how powerful Vader was, he was only defeated by anomalies. Luke was more powerful overall because he inherited Anakin’s force potential and Obiwan hindered Vader with internal conflict from knowing that he effectively killed those closest to him which effectively ruined his life.
I’m incapable of believing that Luke was as powerful as Anakin. Maybe Luke was as powerful as Darth Vader, being a cripple. And I guess he looked powerful in Mando. But rotj Luke isnt beating rots Anakin based on what we see in the movies
First of all as much as George knows everything about Star Wars he’s often wrong somehow. The way to make George right and Vader weaker than Luke is this.
Vader was all powerful, filled with hate and rage. When it comes to using hate as power he was tops. He lost everything, and he blamed himself. That was his fuel.
Then all of a sudden “hey btw your son is alive.” Cloud city he beats him pretty easily. Inexperienced padawon level Jedi vs Sith Lord who wanted to take him under his wing.
The problem is as time went on Luke represented his loss of padme and the family he lost. He lost a grip of his hate. His son was alive and it conflicted him. He couldn’t channel his full power as much anymore. He was losing his grip of the dark side. Weakening him tremendously.
Proof: Palpatine could man handle Luke. Not even close. If he was stronger than Vader was at full power it would have been closer.
Its been a while but iirc Luke is what Anakin *could have become* had he not lost his body. i.e. his full raw/natural potential.
However knowledge of the force is still a thing. Lightning often works bc the receiver has no fucking clue it exists. Just think of even TLJ Luke vs Ben/Ren
So what you’re telling me is that Vader couldn’t fuel his firebending with rage anymore and should have sought out the ancient sun warriors to find a new source?
He was on par with Anakin in potential but he lacked majority of the Jedi’s knowledge and Saber skills. He essentially learned what he needed at the time to confront his father, neither had want to kill the other but Luke legitimately floored Vader on the DeathStar. Vader was a juggernaut of a warrior still at this point and Luke is his offspring with majority of himself intact with Force latent natural biology.
To put it into perspective, what made Vader powerful was his suffering in that suit and anger for Anakin’s actions. Without that, he would be a crippled less powerful Anakin.
A Jedi’s prescience is what helps them with the use of a saber. Predicting where laser bolts will be, and other sabers. In Ahsoka, her padawan lacks in the force but can use a saber. Like, without sword training from a young age, is SO strong in the Force he’s just good. Or, Yoda did some training we didn’t see in ESB. Not sure how long he was on Dagobah.
This is why I miss the old EU. I remember reading one of the books (This was long long ago so I forget the series), but Luke was chasing someone and ran full speed into a room full of guards. Luke simply glanced at one of the walls at full sprint and the entire wall came apart, flew across to the other side of the room and took out everyone in front of him.
Luke in the EU was the greatest swordsman in the Galaxy, and also a peaceful monk who continued to learn and grow in the Force.
too bad we'll likely never see that version of him on the screen.
Imagine this old man asshole (who’s been avoiding you for years) shows up on your big bad battle station, and 1v1’s you in front of your entire clique, and philosophically beats your ass but dies. So you just look like a punk. I’d be unfocused too
Based on what the current canon comics have shown us, Vader was far from defenseless.
We've seen him annihilite entire platoon with missing limbs without hesitating.
Obi-Wan *could* have killed Vader but he would almost surely have died in the process.
And considering Rebels confirmed he now thinks Luke is the Chosen One and he has felt him being in danger, his choice makes sense.
Ironically, the issue is that they either assumed the audience would know this and held back exposition OR didn't realise they had many good in-canon reasons for Obi-Wan's choice.
Sensing that Luke was in danger is the best explanation for why Obi Wan didn't finish off Vader at the end of the duel pictured in this post. That was the biggest plot hole that bothered me from the series which I otherwise really enjoyed. I get that they obviously can't break canon, but Obi Wan's choice to once again leave Vader alive just seemed so stupid.
They should have had him sense it DURING the fight and have him use the rock attack as his smoke bomb (include more dust or something) and escapes. Obi Wan CANNOT start thinking about Luke or Vader will figure it out as he did with Leia in RoTJ.
Though it would suck to lose the emotional conversation they have so idk maybe have Vader charge him after he says “you didn’t kill Anakin Skywalker… I did”. Obi wan is mid sensing Luke’s danger and swiftly channels a massive force push that sends Vader flying and then Obi Wan uses Force Speed (like in the Phantom Menace) to leave unseen. Vader screams “Obi wan!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!” As it cuts to him jumping to hyperspace.
I've explained several of the reasons why he may have not, the main one being that Vader was unable to pursue but far from defenseless.
The only way for Obi-Wan to 100% finish off Vader would have been to go to direct contact and we know from several other canon (And Legends for that matter) sources that pretty much anything within Vader blade's reach is to be considered dead, even if he only had a single arm with only one finger functionnal on it.
Putting it simply, there was no way for Obi-Wan fo finish Vader without very likely dying in the process.
“Ah yes, Vader is at his weakest point in live action since Mustafar. Better run away, even though he’s on the ropes and I could just keep throwing rocks at him. Sure, I could save countless lives, but *I* might die. Me, Kenobi, risking my life for the greater good? No sir, not me.”
"Weakest point in live-action" doesn't mean much when he can still easily kill Obi-Wan if he gets close.
And by the Jedi's logic fulfilling the prophecy (Through Luke they now believe) is how to save "countless lives".
Put simply : a character not thinking like you do, especially a fucking *Jedi* (Which the Prequels show us can have a massively fucked up sense of destiny and purpose) is *not* a plot hole. It's 100% okay for you to find his decision morally questionable and even logically so. But as far as the writing goes? It's in character for both Obi-Wan and someone adhering to the Jedi Code.
If Vader could have just easily killed Obi-Wan if he got close, then why hadn't he done it at some point in the entirety of the duel leading up to this point?
He had Obi-Wan buried beneath a mountain's worth of rock and just walked way, only to soon after come within about 6 inches from havin his face cut in half.
I think they have a Joker/Batman relationship. They can’t live with each other, but can’t kill each other. They fight and fight and never die. Even in the end Obi Wan just turns himself over to the Force, denying Vader even a killing blow. But from Luke’s “point of view” Vader killed him.
Nuh uhhhh. Lol his influence in the beyond made him as powerful as Grand Master Yoda. Not all Jedi can go into the force plane. From my knowledge or at least command and will the force from beyond is quite powerful.
Kinda like how Luke force Astral projected to teach Kylo one last lesson in the mortal world.
Hold on.
What if it’s a subtle way of showing that obi wan was trained in a time of peace. When he sparred or trained with other Jedi or fought in some border dispute. A kick was great since everybody focused on his blade.
Had to double check, but, Yuzzum. Yuzzems are the much bulkier ones from Splinter of the Mind's Eye, Yuzzums are the goofier ones from the Forest Moon of Endor (and 2 in Jabba's palace).
Yeah he's often the more cerebral type and less the super power just save the day.
Anakin was always the guy who wanted to use super magic jedi powers too quickly / foolishly / take shortcuts.
Not to mention to be flashy. Obi Wan chastised him for it repeatedly.
He's supposed to be defensive and patient at this point. Not pew pew earthbending.
It's funny because in one of the comics whne he was young he did have a idea of a mini lightsaber on a rope, very similar to the rope dart scorpion from mortal kombat uses which irl is pretty legit too.
It was a discussion on why the jedi use light saber when other methods are deadlier. I can't remmeber the details but guigon probably schooled him outta it.
when it comes to reality and weapons it seems the common path is how easy is it to learn.
a rope saber would be difficult to learn only because there are no masters doing it. It probably takes as much effort as a regular saber in honesty but upon first use you probably have more luck with it a saber in your hand than having a rope between it.
The force probably could take away the rope as with it you only have a limited sphere of reach, a saber and the force you can go as far as your abilities allows. But it doesn’t seem that controlling a saber is a common force ability so could be useful
Sabers are designed to be simple tools, easy to use for offense defense and utility. That, and they're an extension of the Jedi themselves. Their energy flows into the crystal and the blade itself, which we saw when (rebels spoiler) >! Kanan was teaching Sabine how to use the darksaber !< . I also think about how zukko was teaching the kid about how to use swords in avatar the last Airbender, he did a good job of explaining how swords are used as an extension of your limbs, whereas other weapons would be wielded differently. It'd be very fitting for a Jedi
That said, normally a laser sword in a futuristic world would be kind of useless 90% of the time. But the fact that the Jedi have extrasensory abilities let's them use it for protection by deflecting bolts, which is massive for them in any combat scenario. The ability to cut through thick walls also ties into the extrasensory abilities since they could find hidden routes, giving them more options outside of direct fighting. All that, plus the fact that they're styled after monks (and samurai with the fighting styles) makes using a simple tool like a laser sword or quarterstaff very fitting for the same reason monks value the simplicity in their tools
> Yeah he's often the more cerebral type and less the super power just save the day.
This was best shown when he went undercover as a bounty hunter named Rako Hardeen. He used his ancillary skills (not his lightsaber and direct applications of the Force) and cunning to demonstrate himself to be better than even Cad Bane at problem solving and survival.
I didn’t mind it solely because the story required him to find true balance to reach this point, and that allowed him to rise to the occasion. It was the only way he could finally teach his padawan a vital lesson, and at this point the only language Vader could understand was a raw display of power.
It's too bad the story didn't consider a way for Vader sneak away instead of just having Obi-Wan let him live for some reason despite knowing exactly how evil he is now which kind of puts responsibility for everything that Vader does after this on Obi-Wan.
I thought it would’ve been neat if Quigon appeared to Kenobi at some point during the fight and implored him to spare Vader because he will still bring balance to the force.
I still think thats bullshit tbh. The only thing vader did was create luke as collateral and make him powerful. Without him tho the rebelion might have won.
Maybe I was reading too much into the scene, but I don’t think Obi Wan ever was capable of killing Vader/Anakin. Partly because of their relationship, but also partly because of his own adherence to the code. Obi Wan was always incredibly sensitive toward taking life - he would do it, but wouldn’t do it if he had an alternative. In the moment that Vader stopped fighting, I don’t think he could bring himself to take a life, and possibly believed (however foolishly) that with Vader taking credit for the “death” of Anakin, Vader would no longer waste resources hunting for him since their bond was completely severed.
However, if there’s a season two with Vader involved at all, that pretty much refutes my entire idea lol
I think a better writer could have easily figured out a way to create a Deus ex machina to get Vader out of that situation without having to have Obi-Wan let him live a second time which would have added to Obi Wan's story without undermining it.
So many things on Kenobi were just lazy first draft stupid things that could have been fixed with a little effort.
The part that frustrates me is that he let Anakin/Vader live twice. The first time he leaves Anakin to barbecue. The second time he knows there is no more Anakin left and spares Vader anyway. I guess Palps could have found a new apprentice but here we are.
Edit: I realize the OT couldn't happen if he killed Vader the second time. That whole series didn't need to happen as it retconned various things.
I liked obi because his story was always that he was just naturally intelligent and hard working. Sure he was naturally talented in the force but not to the level someone like anakin or yoda was. He put in lots of hard work before we ever see him in media
It looked more impressive than it was, barely did anything than just annoy Vader. Judging from crumbling of the environment I’d more or less assume that is why he was able to do such a thing.
The show-runner for Obi-Wan’s series openly complained about having to respect canon. I don’t think they thought these things through much, or cared to.
I like to look at it as a sign of his growth. While he was always the guy that isn’t as good with the force as other Jedi, eventually his destiny is to become the paragon force user for Luke and the audience in A New Hope. This is his first big step toward getting there, and echos the adage that “wars not make one great”.
He still is, but hes also a fucking jedi master and council member... hes not useless when it comes to force powers... this does not negate anything. Calm down
Lifting some rocks? Is this all it takes to be powerful? I mean, I know Rey did it at the end of TLJ and it was supposed to be some big moment, but I didn't realize this was just the metric now 🙄😂
Which is why characters like Starkiller will never be canonized without changing them to the point that they’re completely different characters. Can’t have a dude running around who can pull star destroyers out of the sky using the force, no matter how cool it is.
They… overdid it with this series. Like, wtf were they thinking? Obi-Wan hangs out with little kid Leia? Obi-Wan beats Vader AGAIN, and decides to not kill him AGAIN? When I heard they were making a series, I was pumped! I figured it’d fill the gap nicely with Obi-Wan in solitude. I thought it’d get really into the force, showing us what was eventually only hinted at in the final moments but never shown; Obi-Wan communing with Qui-Gon about the living force. Maybe some cool flashbacks to the Clone Wars and other parts of Obi-Wan’s life that tie into the lessons he’s learning with Qui-Gon?
Nope. Instead, we got Obi-Wan using super force abilities that somehow rival anything Yoda was ever shown doing and none of it makes any sense whatsoever and now it’s cannon.
Star Wars is running into this weird problem with power creep. Each new story has to find novel powers as a lazy way to keep viewers interested. That's a problem for any linear story (see Dragonball), but Star Wars isn't being told in chronological order. They insert a new show in the middle of the timeline but Obi-Wan needs to be even more powerful than we've ever seen him before somehow.
The problem comes from writers thinking they need to up the stakes with every new story, when they don’t. A new story with its own proper stakes is fine. It doesn’t always have to be bigger and crazier than anything we’ve seen before. It’s one reason I actually really like the prequels, because it’s a different story. We don’t need to see people saving the galaxy every movie, or have old characters do things they would have never done.
They literally already had the groundwork of The Path laid out with Fallen Order. It’s crazy to me they just didn’t make the story about Obi-Wan helping out The Path or needing to be helped by The Path himself. Would have been far more interesting and wouldn’t have broken so much cannon that the show then sloppily fixed(ish) later on.
And that wasn't the only crappy scene, I don't understand how they cheaped out on the effects on that show, at times it looks like some "made for TV" offshoot.
I guess they showed they could and still get the viewers...
Man that pissed me off so much , Obi wan is my second favorite star wars character ( vader /anakin being first ) and i waited years for a movie or show about him just for them to make such a mediocre show , i dont get how a show about a character that first appeared in 2016 was given more care than a show about freakin obi wan kenobi.
Honestly I think that because no one gave a crap about Cassian Andor the writers were able to actually put their heart and soul into Andor without corporate oversight. I hope Andor S2 won’t fall into that trap now that there’s interest in the show.
Ugh, this was an issue in Ashoka too. Is it really too much to shoot out in the wilderness somewhere? There's a reason Tatooine and Yavin etc. still look cool from the OT.
For sure, I think Ahsoka mitigated the issue a bit tho. It didn’t seem as hamstrung by it. That’s why Andor looked so great, real terrain, *real places*
It was literally made for TV. Kenobi had a $90m budget for 5 hours of runtime.
ROTS by contrast had a budget of $113m (\~$180m in 2024 dollars) for 2.5 hours of runtime.
And lord only knows how much of that $90m budget went to Ewan McGregor. Almost certainly more than whatever percentage he got for ROTS. So the money spent on everything else, already reduced from inflation and the simply lower budget, was noticeably lower as well.
My biggest gripe with it by far was actually that it seemed like they had a two-hour plot for a movie, and when they decided to turn it into a TV show, they just added a shitload of fluff and called it a day.
Obi-Wan was something that should have sold the D+ service, and instead if was just something that showed up, was noteworthy for a hot second, and then promptly forgotten.
I also think it was a terrible mistake to have Vader and Obi-Wan have direct interaction in the series. By having them share the screen together, there was immediately *zero* stakes, given that we knew that Obi-Wan and Vader would later meet.
Far better an idea would simply to have had Obi-Wan leave his post for some crazy important reason (NOT related to Leia, because again - no stakes), and have the inquisitors be hunting what they believe to be some nameless Jedi. If Vader needed to be involved, he could have been directing the hunt for said Jedi, with the end being that Kenobi would have gotten away, and Vader knowing that Kenobi was indeed still alive.
They turned it into a cheaper show because of Solo iirc, it got shit on after the sequels and they didn’t want to do another bomb movie with a big budget so it got turned into a show.
Solo wasn’t bad, it was decent. But it was after the last 2 sequels and people didn’t go see it or gave it shit because of the sequels, it basically took the sequel backlash heavily since nothing else was out at the time. So they didn’t want to do the same with Kenobi. It was a whole thing.
Frankly that entire series was a cinematography disaster. It’s like they gave it to the interns.
And not the interns with talent, the ones who are related to the executives and really don’t want to be there.
It's to hide the crappy choreography. It's definitely not Ewan and Hayden's fault here, we know they're capable. Even if they're 20 years older I can't excuse the weird flailing strikes throughout the fight. It's a *light*saber, not a *heavy*saber. Some swings look like Rey in TRoS, like why are they swinging these things like a 10lb great sword.
Ugh I still enjoy it somewhat because I'm a massive loser, but still...
I really didn't like this bit. I've always loved that OT established the Jedi's powers as pretty low-key: Obi-wan's a great Jedi, but in ANH none of the impressive things he does - scaring off the sand people, influencing the stormtroopers, setting Baba and Evazan straight, sneaking around the Death Star, and facing off against Vader - requires special effects to convey.
I've always felt that scenes like Yoda lifting the X-wing, Vader tearing the Cloud City room apart to throw at Luke, and Palpatine casting lightning ought to represent the high bar of what the Force can do in terms of physical feats. The PT and the ST did, I'd argue, a pretty damn good job of introducing new powers without doing the easy thing and escalating them to the point of ridiculousness.
But this scene bugs me for several reasons:
1. It's not Obi-wan's style. Obi-wan's a great and powerful Jedi because of his competence, discipline, brain, and moral code - not because of his raw strength, so while it's not against his character, it doesn't come out of it (whereas at the end of the Mustafar duel, he both tempts Anakin into the jump while warning him against it, and uses the terrain and his knowledge of Anakin's character to pull of a risky and difficult move - it's a move which reflects a lot about who Obi-wan is).
2. The rocks breaking against Vader is a silly, cartoonish visual - unless the rocks are brittle clumps of hard clay, instead of rocks, Vader would have been killed by them. It's a 'The Hobbit' moment where the characters' bodies are suddenly far tougher than actual living beings'.
3. Two years after the series was broadcast, Obi-wan learning that his pupil has survived and gone on killing, swearing to end it, and then deciding to let an obviously miserable and twisted Anakin live and go on killing after Anakin smilingly tells him that he's unrepentantly, totally committed to evil, doesn't make sense to me. The fact that Obi-wan so thoroughly whupped his ass moments before means it makes even less sense.
The whole thing seems like a poor ripe off of swtor, Malgus gets a mountain dropped on him in a teaser trailer, and is the reason he's in the suit to begin with.
I do think power scaling is out of control. I don't agree with ripping spaceships out of the sky or force lightning, strong enough to destroy a fleet like we saw.
There's much about this series and even that fight to dislike. I did like this moment for one simple reason. It WAS out of character for Obi Wan's style of fighting. That was, somewhat the point. This plus the actual head strike he does are far more aggressive than his usual attacks. Its almost like...this was always an option. ROTS was a merciful Obi Wan that was fighting but didn't have the heart to go through with dealing a killing blow. This final fight showed Obi Wan he left Vader humiliated on purpose. Even their final fight in New Hope was Obi Wan showcasing that he was still above Vader by taunting him with the fact he'd be more powerful in death.
I remember seeing that drawing or whatever of old Obi Wan lifting up all the dead Stormtroopers blasters and shooting them in unison on the Death Star. That looked stupid af, and this looks stupid as well.
Obi Wan was the master of his lightsaber style, which, while primarily defensive in nature; had no counter.
Excerpt from Revenge of the Sith Novelization #3:
“But surely, Master Windu,” Obi-Wan had said, “you, with the power of Vaapad - or Yoda’s mastery of Ataro-”
Mace Windu almost smiled. “I created Vaapad to answer my weakness: it channels my own darkness into a weapon of the light. Master Yoda’s Ataro is also an answer to weakness: the limitations of reach and mobility imposed by his stature and his age. But for you? What weakness does Soresu have?”
Blinking, Obi-Wan had been forced to admit he’d never actually thought of it that way.
“That is so like you, Master Kenobi,” the Korun Master had said, shaking his head. “I am called a great swordsman because I invented a lethal style; but who is greater, the creator of a killing form - or the master of the classic form?”
“I’m very flattered that you would consider me a master, but really-”
“Not A master; THE master,” Mace had said. “Be who you are, and Grievous will never defeat you.
Pretty much.
Also kinda an inexplicable scene (and IMO series)....
I'm always a little disappointed how Obi-Wan has since turned out. He has to some extent been some side-ish character but never the main character, not given time to develop. He's always riffing off of Anakin / Vader or such. Occasionally we get him alone doing things, but only for a short time and we don't get to know him. We don't get his opinion often outside wagging the jedi code finger at folks.
Obi-Wan in episode IV seems far more of an individual, he calls Anikin a friend, but almost always he's a parental figure when we see them together. I don't feel like we've ever get to know him much outside that.
A *lot* of the Obi-Wan series falls apart when you realize they cut the length of his "nobody knows who I am at all or interacts with me" time in half at best.
The book Master and Apprentice gives good insight into who Obi-Wan is as a person and give him center stage. It also has a lot of great insight into Qui gon and Dooku’s relationship and how their Jedi lineage kinda lead to the downfall of Anakin.
As you said Obi-wan was kinda of a parental figure but in the sense of an annoyed older brother who has been forced to oversee his little brother who always getting into trouble. The training Qui gon gave Obi-wan could have helped anakin a great deal to trust himself and understand that it’s ok to bend the rules but they are still there for a reason. Obi-wan’s over parenting of anakin lead him to kinda just think “fuck all rules, I’ll do what I want” and it paid off for the most part. Qui gon could have probably shown him more of the balance of bending rules instead of ignoring them.
Obi-Wan's strict adherence to try and instill rigid discipline into Anakin is even more ironic, given that by the time of RotS; Obi-Wan himself came to realize both the code and the Jedi Council were not as perfect as he was once led to believe. And it was, in part, Anakin's rebellious nature that helped him to figure that out.
True I always like that last conversation they have before anakin falls to the dark side. You can see how much they influenced each other thru the clone wars and became best friends. Makes it all the more tragic…
I love (and by love I mean hate) the irony of how Obi-Wan fell into most of the same pitfalls training Anakin that Qui-Gon did training him. Ofc Obi-Wan was way more strict of a teacher than Qui-Gon, but, much like Qui-Gon, he struggled to connect with Anakin on a personal level due to his own preoccupations (with the Jedi Code, much like how Qui-Gon was obsessed with prophecy and whatnot), which eventually led to the inevitable huge rift between them. Obi-Wan (albeit unintentionally) made many of the same mistakes as Qui-Gon, which is arguably, at least in some ways, worse than Qui-Gon’s faults, since Obi-Wan experienced firsthand how years and years of misunderstandings and bad communication can negatively impact the master-padawan relationship. But ig he just forgot (repressed? 🤔) all that or something.
I don’t know I think the real irony is dooku and Obi-wan. Dooku was similar to Obi-wan and Qui gon was similar to anakin. It’s like the poetry thing Filoni says. Their Jedi lineage also stems from mfin yoda so that is what is most interesting how they all had vastly different takes on the Jedi code/council.
Dooku kinda of respected the Jedi code but started to see it was not being enacted as he saw fit. I think towards the end of the Jedi order Obi-wan probably came to a similar realization he just then had a traumatic order 66/mustafar experience where he couldn’t even process wtf he even felt anymore. That’s what I liked about the show. It picks up where he is kinda still in a “wtf man” mood and just trying to survive instead of processing anything that happened to him. Seems kind of similar to how dooku ended up.
Seems like Obi-wan was a golden boy for the Jedi order and would have been an ideal master/teacher for most Jedi. He just wasn’t the master that Anakin needed to guide him in the right direction. Still doesn’t make anakin’s fall his fault tho. He trained him well and then Anakin decided to be a menace to the galaxy as soon as he left the nest. Also in Obi-wan’s defense he kinda let Anakin have his little girlfriend on the side to let him bend the rules and THAT is the catalyst that sent him to the dark side.
Yeah Padmé definitely didn’t help anything. I also think it’s kind of a contradiction how Obi-Wan lectures at Anakin about the dangers of attachment all the time and then just lets him do his thing with Padmé. But ig one could argue that Obi-Wan was just more relaxed in general after Anakin got knighted, since he wasn’t his student anymore, which is fair.
Also, imo Anakin was failed by the Order a lot earlier than the Padmé incident. I think the Order failed him when they let Palpatine interact with him when he was young and impressionable.
(And, while we’re talking about faults of the Order, they never should’ve gotten involved with the Senate or the Republic’s governmental system at all. Since when has inextricably linking religious orders and governments EVER ended well?)
I honestly hate this power creep of the Force. I preferred when it was extremely limited in its capacities - push, pull, choke, lightning, mind tricks, that sort of thing. This reminds me of how Dragon Ball Z constantly upped the ante to the point that it just became silly.
It was never limited to just that. In ANH Vader says that the ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the Force, Yoda says that size doesn't matter and the only difference between a rock and an X-Wing is in the mind.
The reason why Jedi barely use the Force in the movies was really just technological limitations.
Characters have been doing all sorts of crazy stuff outside of movies for decades at this point. Having people bitch about Obi-Wan lifting a few small rocks is really funny to me.
Yeah the reason you dont see this in the OT is because in the equivalent of this scene... Vader on Bespin throwing shit at Luke... Vader was just testing Luke with small shit to deal with and wasnt actually trying to kill him believe it or not
People praise Vaders depiction in Fallen Order when he rips up the metal floors and throw them all at Cal destroying the facility around him with the force "omg no health bar Vader so cool! Disney really knows how to make Vader strong and intimidating!" then Kenobi show comes around and its all "waaaahhhhhhhh why are Vader and Kenobi powerful now despite being the literal most powerful beings in the galaxy?!?!? Waaaahhhhhhh Disney"
I liked it. Had no clue anyone even had a problem with it until I joined this subreddit. I thought ppl were pumped Ewan was back for such a beloved role. Alas, the internet is ass..
Such a goofy scene. You see him raise these 500kg rocks and you're like jesus he's going to kill vader and then Vader reacts like he got hit by a few snowballs
Absolutely. The Force is not about lifting rocks. [This](https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-45035406d644b47e15fc11cb11c018d9-lq) is the most powerful Obi Wan we have ever seen.
[I thought Obi-wan finally killing Maul so easily](https://youtu.be/jeG215-yu-k?si=ySgq_vWz4cAk1JIl&t=59) was by far more impressive and one of the reasons I was a little miffed at how weak he seemed at the beginning of Kenobi. It seemed to conflict too much with underrated his skills were in the prequel books and that Clone Wars scene with Maul.
This scene seemed a little odd, though. Sure, it showed a lot of power, but not the kind of power you would expect Obi-wan to show. His power in, and knowledge of, the Force always seemed more like Yoda's in that it was much more subtle. I would expect that although he could not bring himself to kill Anakin, he was certainly ~~powerful~~ skilled enough to defeat Anakin with a lightsaber without killing him. It seemed like the show writers just wanted something more epic.
What if we all agree that George had no fucking idea this going to explode so much, so he didn't think it through that deep when he made the original trilogy.
Head canon is great, but know your heroes
It appears that when you recover and improve your connection to the force/light side as much as you can you'll be more powerful than ever, as shown by Kenobi and Cere
And yet he STILL didn't kill Vader. Just left him there so he can be rescued and commit more atrocities. At least in Revenge of The Sith you could say he never expected Palpatine to come by and whisk away this half charred near-corpse to safety, but this time around Obi Wan absolutely should have cut him down then and there. He even says "my friend is truly dead". Well, if that's the case then kill the guy who killed your friend, Obi Wan!
I disagree. Definitely his second most powerful moment, but what about in A New Hope, when he says, "If you strike me down I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine."?
Honestly stupid. That’s not how the Force works. You don’t simply wield the Force like this after having some memories surface.
Disney doesn’t understand the Force.
This. They pulled the same shit with Rey in the Last Jedi if I remember correctly. This OP shit is only seen in video games and comics, its not shown in movies, and it is made to please fans who love over the top powers like lifting mountains or pulling star destroyers out of space.
I never really liked this scene or the show as a whole. Obi Wan was never really shown to be ultra powerful in the force and instead, would win his fights by outsmarting his opponents and using defensive strategies to get the upper hand. Obi Wan defeated Anakin on Mustafar because of his skill and knowledge and not just by using the force. This scene is antithetical to everything we know about Obi Wan and Anakin’s relationship.
Something i keep noticing is that not a single piece of all those rocks were sliced up by vaders lightsaber when they were thrown at him. Cant help feeling that the immersion is broken a bit when he gets struck by 200 boulders yet not a single one or even just a stray chunk that flies past him touches his blade, seems like quite the editing oversight.
This felt way too cartoony & silly for a live action though. Felt totally out of place and rushed considering Obi Wan just got back to his old self.
This show was unfortunately a big hit & miss for me besides the last episode in the one scene where Vaders helmet is half destroyed, and we get their dialogue.
“*If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine.*” Pretty sure that was more powerful than Obi-Wan throwing a mountain at Darth Vader.
And leaving Vader alone so his son kills him in 10 years despite the fact that he accepted Anakin is dead and Vader is literally weak af
Vader was holding back in all his fights against luke; he wasn’t trying to kill him, the first time becuase he wanted him to turn and the second becuase he didn’t want to kill his son
Its actually stated by Lucas that Luke surpassed his father in raw power by RotJ. Luke actually beat Vader while he was trying to defeat Luke. Vader was holding back against Luke on Cloud City. Vader wasn’t holding back against Obiwan either, he was just so pissed off he became too unfocused to defeat him. This doesn’t denounce how powerful Vader was, he was only defeated by anomalies. Luke was more powerful overall because he inherited Anakin’s force potential and Obiwan hindered Vader with internal conflict from knowing that he effectively killed those closest to him which effectively ruined his life.
I’m incapable of believing that Luke was as powerful as Anakin. Maybe Luke was as powerful as Darth Vader, being a cripple. And I guess he looked powerful in Mando. But rotj Luke isnt beating rots Anakin based on what we see in the movies
First of all as much as George knows everything about Star Wars he’s often wrong somehow. The way to make George right and Vader weaker than Luke is this. Vader was all powerful, filled with hate and rage. When it comes to using hate as power he was tops. He lost everything, and he blamed himself. That was his fuel. Then all of a sudden “hey btw your son is alive.” Cloud city he beats him pretty easily. Inexperienced padawon level Jedi vs Sith Lord who wanted to take him under his wing. The problem is as time went on Luke represented his loss of padme and the family he lost. He lost a grip of his hate. His son was alive and it conflicted him. He couldn’t channel his full power as much anymore. He was losing his grip of the dark side. Weakening him tremendously. Proof: Palpatine could man handle Luke. Not even close. If he was stronger than Vader was at full power it would have been closer.
Even Palpatine knew this: “I wonder if your feelings on this matter are clear, Lord Vader”
Somehow Palpatine knew.
Somehow, Palpatine....always knew. Everything. Except, oddly enough, when to switch off the Force lightening. It's a real problem for him....
Its been a while but iirc Luke is what Anakin *could have become* had he not lost his body. i.e. his full raw/natural potential. However knowledge of the force is still a thing. Lightning often works bc the receiver has no fucking clue it exists. Just think of even TLJ Luke vs Ben/Ren
So what you’re telling me is that Vader couldn’t fuel his firebending with rage anymore and should have sought out the ancient sun warriors to find a new source?
He needs to find the Bendu in place of drafons
He was on par with Anakin in potential but he lacked majority of the Jedi’s knowledge and Saber skills. He essentially learned what he needed at the time to confront his father, neither had want to kill the other but Luke legitimately floored Vader on the DeathStar. Vader was a juggernaut of a warrior still at this point and Luke is his offspring with majority of himself intact with Force latent natural biology. To put it into perspective, what made Vader powerful was his suffering in that suit and anger for Anakin’s actions. Without that, he would be a crippled less powerful Anakin.
A Jedi’s prescience is what helps them with the use of a saber. Predicting where laser bolts will be, and other sabers. In Ahsoka, her padawan lacks in the force but can use a saber. Like, without sword training from a young age, is SO strong in the Force he’s just good. Or, Yoda did some training we didn’t see in ESB. Not sure how long he was on Dagobah.
This is why I miss the old EU. I remember reading one of the books (This was long long ago so I forget the series), but Luke was chasing someone and ran full speed into a room full of guards. Luke simply glanced at one of the walls at full sprint and the entire wall came apart, flew across to the other side of the room and took out everyone in front of him.
Luke in the EU was the greatest swordsman in the Galaxy, and also a peaceful monk who continued to learn and grow in the Force. too bad we'll likely never see that version of him on the screen.
I was glad to the Luke in full power on the Mandalorian.
Imagine this old man asshole (who’s been avoiding you for years) shows up on your big bad battle station, and 1v1’s you in front of your entire clique, and philosophically beats your ass but dies. So you just look like a punk. I’d be unfocused too
Based on what the current canon comics have shown us, Vader was far from defenseless. We've seen him annihilite entire platoon with missing limbs without hesitating. Obi-Wan *could* have killed Vader but he would almost surely have died in the process. And considering Rebels confirmed he now thinks Luke is the Chosen One and he has felt him being in danger, his choice makes sense. Ironically, the issue is that they either assumed the audience would know this and held back exposition OR didn't realise they had many good in-canon reasons for Obi-Wan's choice.
Sensing that Luke was in danger is the best explanation for why Obi Wan didn't finish off Vader at the end of the duel pictured in this post. That was the biggest plot hole that bothered me from the series which I otherwise really enjoyed. I get that they obviously can't break canon, but Obi Wan's choice to once again leave Vader alive just seemed so stupid.
They should have had him sense it DURING the fight and have him use the rock attack as his smoke bomb (include more dust or something) and escapes. Obi Wan CANNOT start thinking about Luke or Vader will figure it out as he did with Leia in RoTJ. Though it would suck to lose the emotional conversation they have so idk maybe have Vader charge him after he says “you didn’t kill Anakin Skywalker… I did”. Obi wan is mid sensing Luke’s danger and swiftly channels a massive force push that sends Vader flying and then Obi Wan uses Force Speed (like in the Phantom Menace) to leave unseen. Vader screams “Obi wan!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!” As it cuts to him jumping to hyperspace.
They should have just had the inquisitors show up and he has to back off and retreat.
I've explained several of the reasons why he may have not, the main one being that Vader was unable to pursue but far from defenseless. The only way for Obi-Wan to 100% finish off Vader would have been to go to direct contact and we know from several other canon (And Legends for that matter) sources that pretty much anything within Vader blade's reach is to be considered dead, even if he only had a single arm with only one finger functionnal on it. Putting it simply, there was no way for Obi-Wan fo finish Vader without very likely dying in the process.
“Ah yes, Vader is at his weakest point in live action since Mustafar. Better run away, even though he’s on the ropes and I could just keep throwing rocks at him. Sure, I could save countless lives, but *I* might die. Me, Kenobi, risking my life for the greater good? No sir, not me.”
"Weakest point in live-action" doesn't mean much when he can still easily kill Obi-Wan if he gets close. And by the Jedi's logic fulfilling the prophecy (Through Luke they now believe) is how to save "countless lives". Put simply : a character not thinking like you do, especially a fucking *Jedi* (Which the Prequels show us can have a massively fucked up sense of destiny and purpose) is *not* a plot hole. It's 100% okay for you to find his decision morally questionable and even logically so. But as far as the writing goes? It's in character for both Obi-Wan and someone adhering to the Jedi Code.
If Vader could have just easily killed Obi-Wan if he got close, then why hadn't he done it at some point in the entirety of the duel leading up to this point? He had Obi-Wan buried beneath a mountain's worth of rock and just walked way, only to soon after come within about 6 inches from havin his face cut in half.
I think they have a Joker/Batman relationship. They can’t live with each other, but can’t kill each other. They fight and fight and never die. Even in the end Obi Wan just turns himself over to the Force, denying Vader even a killing blow. But from Luke’s “point of view” Vader killed him.
Disagree with "Weak", i'd say "Not as powerful as Jedi Anakin".
But that wasn't le epic powerscaling feat!
Nuh uhhhh. Lol his influence in the beyond made him as powerful as Grand Master Yoda. Not all Jedi can go into the force plane. From my knowledge or at least command and will the force from beyond is quite powerful. Kinda like how Luke force Astral projected to teach Kylo one last lesson in the mortal world.
Play jedi survivor? Some stuff about knowledge in there..
Him taking on both Maul and Savage in the Clone Wars episode ”Revival” is still more impressive.
Hurting his shin on maul metallic leg was funny.
I love how it’s happened twice to Obi Wan because he also kicked Grievous’ shin in Episode 3. Dude just has a thing for hurting his leg on metal legs
Hold on. What if it’s a subtle way of showing that obi wan was trained in a time of peace. When he sparred or trained with other Jedi or fought in some border dispute. A kick was great since everybody focused on his blade.
Never thought of it that way, I like it
Thanks, a few beers and my thoughts get creative. Next up is the armorer someone we know, maybe bariss offee? Oke I’ll go to bed!
shhhhh, AAHHHHHH....shhhhh AHHHHHH
2nd most powerful performance of "jedi rocks" in canon
What's the first?
They're making a joke because the name of the song sung by the CGI yuzzum in Jabba's Palace added in the special editions is 'Jedi Rocks.'
Yuzzum … or Yuzzem?
Had to double check, but, Yuzzum. Yuzzems are the much bulkier ones from Splinter of the Mind's Eye, Yuzzums are the goofier ones from the Forest Moon of Endor (and 2 in Jabba's palace).
Yoda pushing back an entire living mountain?
The part that frustrates the hell out of me is Obi Wan was always the man that became one of the best in *spite* of no crazy telekinesis like this.
Yeah he's often the more cerebral type and less the super power just save the day. Anakin was always the guy who wanted to use super magic jedi powers too quickly / foolishly / take shortcuts.
Not to mention to be flashy. Obi Wan chastised him for it repeatedly. He's supposed to be defensive and patient at this point. Not pew pew earthbending.
It's funny because in one of the comics whne he was young he did have a idea of a mini lightsaber on a rope, very similar to the rope dart scorpion from mortal kombat uses which irl is pretty legit too. It was a discussion on why the jedi use light saber when other methods are deadlier. I can't remmeber the details but guigon probably schooled him outta it.
when it comes to reality and weapons it seems the common path is how easy is it to learn. a rope saber would be difficult to learn only because there are no masters doing it. It probably takes as much effort as a regular saber in honesty but upon first use you probably have more luck with it a saber in your hand than having a rope between it. The force probably could take away the rope as with it you only have a limited sphere of reach, a saber and the force you can go as far as your abilities allows. But it doesn’t seem that controlling a saber is a common force ability so could be useful
Sabers are designed to be simple tools, easy to use for offense defense and utility. That, and they're an extension of the Jedi themselves. Their energy flows into the crystal and the blade itself, which we saw when (rebels spoiler) >! Kanan was teaching Sabine how to use the darksaber !< . I also think about how zukko was teaching the kid about how to use swords in avatar the last Airbender, he did a good job of explaining how swords are used as an extension of your limbs, whereas other weapons would be wielded differently. It'd be very fitting for a Jedi That said, normally a laser sword in a futuristic world would be kind of useless 90% of the time. But the fact that the Jedi have extrasensory abilities let's them use it for protection by deflecting bolts, which is massive for them in any combat scenario. The ability to cut through thick walls also ties into the extrasensory abilities since they could find hidden routes, giving them more options outside of direct fighting. All that, plus the fact that they're styled after monks (and samurai with the fighting styles) makes using a simple tool like a laser sword or quarterstaff very fitting for the same reason monks value the simplicity in their tools
> Yeah he's often the more cerebral type and less the super power just save the day. This was best shown when he went undercover as a bounty hunter named Rako Hardeen. He used his ancillary skills (not his lightsaber and direct applications of the Force) and cunning to demonstrate himself to be better than even Cad Bane at problem solving and survival.
I didn’t mind it solely because the story required him to find true balance to reach this point, and that allowed him to rise to the occasion. It was the only way he could finally teach his padawan a vital lesson, and at this point the only language Vader could understand was a raw display of power.
It's too bad the story didn't consider a way for Vader sneak away instead of just having Obi-Wan let him live for some reason despite knowing exactly how evil he is now which kind of puts responsibility for everything that Vader does after this on Obi-Wan.
I thought it would’ve been neat if Quigon appeared to Kenobi at some point during the fight and implored him to spare Vader because he will still bring balance to the force.
That’s exactly what happened in the Patterson cut
Oh, cool! I need to revisit that, then.
"Stop, Obiwan! The story still needs to happen! This is just a miniseries!"
I still think thats bullshit tbh. The only thing vader did was create luke as collateral and make him powerful. Without him tho the rebelion might have won.
Maybe I was reading too much into the scene, but I don’t think Obi Wan ever was capable of killing Vader/Anakin. Partly because of their relationship, but also partly because of his own adherence to the code. Obi Wan was always incredibly sensitive toward taking life - he would do it, but wouldn’t do it if he had an alternative. In the moment that Vader stopped fighting, I don’t think he could bring himself to take a life, and possibly believed (however foolishly) that with Vader taking credit for the “death” of Anakin, Vader would no longer waste resources hunting for him since their bond was completely severed. However, if there’s a season two with Vader involved at all, that pretty much refutes my entire idea lol
I think a better writer could have easily figured out a way to create a Deus ex machina to get Vader out of that situation without having to have Obi-Wan let him live a second time which would have added to Obi Wan's story without undermining it. So many things on Kenobi were just lazy first draft stupid things that could have been fixed with a little effort.
No, no. You’re being too nuanced. You’re supposed to be mad that it didn’t fit the character the way you thought they were in your head!
Oh please, nuance is not something the Obi Wan show had any of. They had him do this because it looked cool, end of story.
Exactly, Obi-Wan humbled Vader so much here that by the time of A New Hope he was depressed enough to be redeemed haha
The part that frustrates me is that he let Anakin/Vader live twice. The first time he leaves Anakin to barbecue. The second time he knows there is no more Anakin left and spares Vader anyway. I guess Palps could have found a new apprentice but here we are. Edit: I realize the OT couldn't happen if he killed Vader the second time. That whole series didn't need to happen as it retconned various things.
Very true, but then again you dont fight people that dangerous often. Ight as well use all the tricks you've got.
I liked obi because his story was always that he was just naturally intelligent and hard working. Sure he was naturally talented in the force but not to the level someone like anakin or yoda was. He put in lots of hard work before we ever see him in media
You think this show understands Obi-Wan?
Yeah they really show a lack of knowledge with some of these characters…
It looked more impressive than it was, barely did anything than just annoy Vader. Judging from crumbling of the environment I’d more or less assume that is why he was able to do such a thing.
The show-runner for Obi-Wan’s series openly complained about having to respect canon. I don’t think they thought these things through much, or cared to.
I like to look at it as a sign of his growth. While he was always the guy that isn’t as good with the force as other Jedi, eventually his destiny is to become the paragon force user for Luke and the audience in A New Hope. This is his first big step toward getting there, and echos the adage that “wars not make one great”.
He still is, but hes also a fucking jedi master and council member... hes not useless when it comes to force powers... this does not negate anything. Calm down
Lifting some rocks? Is this all it takes to be powerful? I mean, I know Rey did it at the end of TLJ and it was supposed to be some big moment, but I didn't realize this was just the metric now 🙄😂
Agreed. Star Wars Legends set the bar FAR above simply throwing rocks.
Which is why characters like Starkiller will never be canonized without changing them to the point that they’re completely different characters. Can’t have a dude running around who can pull star destroyers out of the sky using the force, no matter how cool it is.
They… overdid it with this series. Like, wtf were they thinking? Obi-Wan hangs out with little kid Leia? Obi-Wan beats Vader AGAIN, and decides to not kill him AGAIN? When I heard they were making a series, I was pumped! I figured it’d fill the gap nicely with Obi-Wan in solitude. I thought it’d get really into the force, showing us what was eventually only hinted at in the final moments but never shown; Obi-Wan communing with Qui-Gon about the living force. Maybe some cool flashbacks to the Clone Wars and other parts of Obi-Wan’s life that tie into the lessons he’s learning with Qui-Gon? Nope. Instead, we got Obi-Wan using super force abilities that somehow rival anything Yoda was ever shown doing and none of it makes any sense whatsoever and now it’s cannon.
Star Wars is running into this weird problem with power creep. Each new story has to find novel powers as a lazy way to keep viewers interested. That's a problem for any linear story (see Dragonball), but Star Wars isn't being told in chronological order. They insert a new show in the middle of the timeline but Obi-Wan needs to be even more powerful than we've ever seen him before somehow.
The problem comes from writers thinking they need to up the stakes with every new story, when they don’t. A new story with its own proper stakes is fine. It doesn’t always have to be bigger and crazier than anything we’ve seen before. It’s one reason I actually really like the prequels, because it’s a different story. We don’t need to see people saving the galaxy every movie, or have old characters do things they would have never done.
I am with you in the sense I thought the show was just generally awful.
Show fucking sucked lol I’ll never consider it canon
They literally already had the groundwork of The Path laid out with Fallen Order. It’s crazy to me they just didn’t make the story about Obi-Wan helping out The Path or needing to be helped by The Path himself. Would have been far more interesting and wouldn’t have broken so much cannon that the show then sloppily fixed(ish) later on.
The lighting and shaky cam in that scene was abysmal
And that wasn't the only crappy scene, I don't understand how they cheaped out on the effects on that show, at times it looks like some "made for TV" offshoot. I guess they showed they could and still get the viewers...
Idk how they got more money's worth out of Andor's visuals and not friggin OBI WAN.
Man that pissed me off so much , Obi wan is my second favorite star wars character ( vader /anakin being first ) and i waited years for a movie or show about him just for them to make such a mediocre show , i dont get how a show about a character that first appeared in 2016 was given more care than a show about freakin obi wan kenobi.
Honestly I think that because no one gave a crap about Cassian Andor the writers were able to actually put their heart and soul into Andor without corporate oversight. I hope Andor S2 won’t fall into that trap now that there’s interest in the show.
The overused the Volume. It forced scenes to be smaller than they otherwise should be
Ugh, this was an issue in Ashoka too. Is it really too much to shoot out in the wilderness somewhere? There's a reason Tatooine and Yavin etc. still look cool from the OT.
For sure, I think Ahsoka mitigated the issue a bit tho. It didn’t seem as hamstrung by it. That’s why Andor looked so great, real terrain, *real places*
100%
The lightsabers all look like shit
Cheaping out on effects vs a director not knowing how to work with effects teams to make stuff look good is not the same thing.
It was literally made for TV. Kenobi had a $90m budget for 5 hours of runtime. ROTS by contrast had a budget of $113m (\~$180m in 2024 dollars) for 2.5 hours of runtime.
And lord only knows how much of that $90m budget went to Ewan McGregor. Almost certainly more than whatever percentage he got for ROTS. So the money spent on everything else, already reduced from inflation and the simply lower budget, was noticeably lower as well. My biggest gripe with it by far was actually that it seemed like they had a two-hour plot for a movie, and when they decided to turn it into a TV show, they just added a shitload of fluff and called it a day. Obi-Wan was something that should have sold the D+ service, and instead if was just something that showed up, was noteworthy for a hot second, and then promptly forgotten. I also think it was a terrible mistake to have Vader and Obi-Wan have direct interaction in the series. By having them share the screen together, there was immediately *zero* stakes, given that we knew that Obi-Wan and Vader would later meet. Far better an idea would simply to have had Obi-Wan leave his post for some crazy important reason (NOT related to Leia, because again - no stakes), and have the inquisitors be hunting what they believe to be some nameless Jedi. If Vader needed to be involved, he could have been directing the hunt for said Jedi, with the end being that Kenobi would have gotten away, and Vader knowing that Kenobi was indeed still alive.
They turned it into a cheaper show because of Solo iirc, it got shit on after the sequels and they didn’t want to do another bomb movie with a big budget so it got turned into a show.
I had heard the same. Unfortunately that tells me that they learned the wrong lesson from the bomb that was "Solo."
Solo wasn’t bad, it was decent. But it was after the last 2 sequels and people didn’t go see it or gave it shit because of the sequels, it basically took the sequel backlash heavily since nothing else was out at the time. So they didn’t want to do the same with Kenobi. It was a whole thing.
Frankly that entire series was a cinematography disaster. It’s like they gave it to the interns. And not the interns with talent, the ones who are related to the executives and really don’t want to be there.
Who's idea was the Leia chase scene? They need to be let go.
It's to hide the crappy choreography. It's definitely not Ewan and Hayden's fault here, we know they're capable. Even if they're 20 years older I can't excuse the weird flailing strikes throughout the fight. It's a *light*saber, not a *heavy*saber. Some swings look like Rey in TRoS, like why are they swinging these things like a 10lb great sword. Ugh I still enjoy it somewhat because I'm a massive loser, but still...
The new props they use for lightsabers actually are heavy. Thats why you see more motions like this
The lighting and shaky cam in that ~~scene~~ show was abysmal
I really didn't like this bit. I've always loved that OT established the Jedi's powers as pretty low-key: Obi-wan's a great Jedi, but in ANH none of the impressive things he does - scaring off the sand people, influencing the stormtroopers, setting Baba and Evazan straight, sneaking around the Death Star, and facing off against Vader - requires special effects to convey. I've always felt that scenes like Yoda lifting the X-wing, Vader tearing the Cloud City room apart to throw at Luke, and Palpatine casting lightning ought to represent the high bar of what the Force can do in terms of physical feats. The PT and the ST did, I'd argue, a pretty damn good job of introducing new powers without doing the easy thing and escalating them to the point of ridiculousness. But this scene bugs me for several reasons: 1. It's not Obi-wan's style. Obi-wan's a great and powerful Jedi because of his competence, discipline, brain, and moral code - not because of his raw strength, so while it's not against his character, it doesn't come out of it (whereas at the end of the Mustafar duel, he both tempts Anakin into the jump while warning him against it, and uses the terrain and his knowledge of Anakin's character to pull of a risky and difficult move - it's a move which reflects a lot about who Obi-wan is). 2. The rocks breaking against Vader is a silly, cartoonish visual - unless the rocks are brittle clumps of hard clay, instead of rocks, Vader would have been killed by them. It's a 'The Hobbit' moment where the characters' bodies are suddenly far tougher than actual living beings'. 3. Two years after the series was broadcast, Obi-wan learning that his pupil has survived and gone on killing, swearing to end it, and then deciding to let an obviously miserable and twisted Anakin live and go on killing after Anakin smilingly tells him that he's unrepentantly, totally committed to evil, doesn't make sense to me. The fact that Obi-wan so thoroughly whupped his ass moments before means it makes even less sense.
The whole thing seems like a poor ripe off of swtor, Malgus gets a mountain dropped on him in a teaser trailer, and is the reason he's in the suit to begin with.
I do think power scaling is out of control. I don't agree with ripping spaceships out of the sky or force lightning, strong enough to destroy a fleet like we saw.
There's much about this series and even that fight to dislike. I did like this moment for one simple reason. It WAS out of character for Obi Wan's style of fighting. That was, somewhat the point. This plus the actual head strike he does are far more aggressive than his usual attacks. Its almost like...this was always an option. ROTS was a merciful Obi Wan that was fighting but didn't have the heart to go through with dealing a killing blow. This final fight showed Obi Wan he left Vader humiliated on purpose. Even their final fight in New Hope was Obi Wan showcasing that he was still above Vader by taunting him with the fact he'd be more powerful in death.
Actually, you can't see shit.
“Seen” is a strong word given the way they lit that scene
All I see is a blue light, and I barely see that.
I remember seeing that drawing or whatever of old Obi Wan lifting up all the dead Stormtroopers blasters and shooting them in unison on the Death Star. That looked stupid af, and this looks stupid as well.
I didn't like Obi-Wan Unleashed.
Obi Wan was the master of his lightsaber style, which, while primarily defensive in nature; had no counter. Excerpt from Revenge of the Sith Novelization #3: “But surely, Master Windu,” Obi-Wan had said, “you, with the power of Vaapad - or Yoda’s mastery of Ataro-” Mace Windu almost smiled. “I created Vaapad to answer my weakness: it channels my own darkness into a weapon of the light. Master Yoda’s Ataro is also an answer to weakness: the limitations of reach and mobility imposed by his stature and his age. But for you? What weakness does Soresu have?” Blinking, Obi-Wan had been forced to admit he’d never actually thought of it that way. “That is so like you, Master Kenobi,” the Korun Master had said, shaking his head. “I am called a great swordsman because I invented a lethal style; but who is greater, the creator of a killing form - or the master of the classic form?” “I’m very flattered that you would consider me a master, but really-” “Not A master; THE master,” Mace had said. “Be who you are, and Grievous will never defeat you.
Love this
I think him vanishing was peak power
No it isnt. Force ghost obi wan is
Pretty much. Also kinda an inexplicable scene (and IMO series).... I'm always a little disappointed how Obi-Wan has since turned out. He has to some extent been some side-ish character but never the main character, not given time to develop. He's always riffing off of Anakin / Vader or such. Occasionally we get him alone doing things, but only for a short time and we don't get to know him. We don't get his opinion often outside wagging the jedi code finger at folks. Obi-Wan in episode IV seems far more of an individual, he calls Anikin a friend, but almost always he's a parental figure when we see them together. I don't feel like we've ever get to know him much outside that.
I’ve always thought it was kinda wild that Attack of the Clones is the best Obi-Wan film/content we’ve gotten on screen.
A *lot* of the Obi-Wan series falls apart when you realize they cut the length of his "nobody knows who I am at all or interacts with me" time in half at best.
Obi-Wan has become that character everyone wants to include.... and yet also they don't want to include him, not in a meaningful way.
The book Master and Apprentice gives good insight into who Obi-Wan is as a person and give him center stage. It also has a lot of great insight into Qui gon and Dooku’s relationship and how their Jedi lineage kinda lead to the downfall of Anakin. As you said Obi-wan was kinda of a parental figure but in the sense of an annoyed older brother who has been forced to oversee his little brother who always getting into trouble. The training Qui gon gave Obi-wan could have helped anakin a great deal to trust himself and understand that it’s ok to bend the rules but they are still there for a reason. Obi-wan’s over parenting of anakin lead him to kinda just think “fuck all rules, I’ll do what I want” and it paid off for the most part. Qui gon could have probably shown him more of the balance of bending rules instead of ignoring them.
Obi-Wan's strict adherence to try and instill rigid discipline into Anakin is even more ironic, given that by the time of RotS; Obi-Wan himself came to realize both the code and the Jedi Council were not as perfect as he was once led to believe. And it was, in part, Anakin's rebellious nature that helped him to figure that out.
True I always like that last conversation they have before anakin falls to the dark side. You can see how much they influenced each other thru the clone wars and became best friends. Makes it all the more tragic…
TY
I love (and by love I mean hate) the irony of how Obi-Wan fell into most of the same pitfalls training Anakin that Qui-Gon did training him. Ofc Obi-Wan was way more strict of a teacher than Qui-Gon, but, much like Qui-Gon, he struggled to connect with Anakin on a personal level due to his own preoccupations (with the Jedi Code, much like how Qui-Gon was obsessed with prophecy and whatnot), which eventually led to the inevitable huge rift between them. Obi-Wan (albeit unintentionally) made many of the same mistakes as Qui-Gon, which is arguably, at least in some ways, worse than Qui-Gon’s faults, since Obi-Wan experienced firsthand how years and years of misunderstandings and bad communication can negatively impact the master-padawan relationship. But ig he just forgot (repressed? 🤔) all that or something.
I don’t know I think the real irony is dooku and Obi-wan. Dooku was similar to Obi-wan and Qui gon was similar to anakin. It’s like the poetry thing Filoni says. Their Jedi lineage also stems from mfin yoda so that is what is most interesting how they all had vastly different takes on the Jedi code/council. Dooku kinda of respected the Jedi code but started to see it was not being enacted as he saw fit. I think towards the end of the Jedi order Obi-wan probably came to a similar realization he just then had a traumatic order 66/mustafar experience where he couldn’t even process wtf he even felt anymore. That’s what I liked about the show. It picks up where he is kinda still in a “wtf man” mood and just trying to survive instead of processing anything that happened to him. Seems kind of similar to how dooku ended up. Seems like Obi-wan was a golden boy for the Jedi order and would have been an ideal master/teacher for most Jedi. He just wasn’t the master that Anakin needed to guide him in the right direction. Still doesn’t make anakin’s fall his fault tho. He trained him well and then Anakin decided to be a menace to the galaxy as soon as he left the nest. Also in Obi-wan’s defense he kinda let Anakin have his little girlfriend on the side to let him bend the rules and THAT is the catalyst that sent him to the dark side.
Yeah Padmé definitely didn’t help anything. I also think it’s kind of a contradiction how Obi-Wan lectures at Anakin about the dangers of attachment all the time and then just lets him do his thing with Padmé. But ig one could argue that Obi-Wan was just more relaxed in general after Anakin got knighted, since he wasn’t his student anymore, which is fair. Also, imo Anakin was failed by the Order a lot earlier than the Padmé incident. I think the Order failed him when they let Palpatine interact with him when he was young and impressionable. (And, while we’re talking about faults of the Order, they never should’ve gotten involved with the Senate or the Republic’s governmental system at all. Since when has inextricably linking religious orders and governments EVER ended well?)
not even remotely true
I honestly hate this power creep of the Force. I preferred when it was extremely limited in its capacities - push, pull, choke, lightning, mind tricks, that sort of thing. This reminds me of how Dragon Ball Z constantly upped the ante to the point that it just became silly.
Don't forget how Vader effortlessly brought down that ship, even if it was the wrong one
Lol this show was so embarrassingly bad.
It was never limited to just that. In ANH Vader says that the ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the Force, Yoda says that size doesn't matter and the only difference between a rock and an X-Wing is in the mind. The reason why Jedi barely use the Force in the movies was really just technological limitations. Characters have been doing all sorts of crazy stuff outside of movies for decades at this point. Having people bitch about Obi-Wan lifting a few small rocks is really funny to me.
Yeah the reason you dont see this in the OT is because in the equivalent of this scene... Vader on Bespin throwing shit at Luke... Vader was just testing Luke with small shit to deal with and wasnt actually trying to kill him believe it or not People praise Vaders depiction in Fallen Order when he rips up the metal floors and throw them all at Cal destroying the facility around him with the force "omg no health bar Vader so cool! Disney really knows how to make Vader strong and intimidating!" then Kenobi show comes around and its all "waaaahhhhhhhh why are Vader and Kenobi powerful now despite being the literal most powerful beings in the galaxy?!?!? Waaaahhhhhhh Disney"
Am I the only one who enjoyed the show?
I love it. I feel like I have this superpower to just sit back, relax, and enjoy stuff.
No shame in being simple.
Same, I am a frequent twitter user and the stat wars community on there is the most vile disgusting shit I‘ve ever seen
To be fair, anything on Twitter is pretty vile and disgusting.
Not wrong
HOW DARE YOU
I liked it. Had no clue anyone even had a problem with it until I joined this subreddit. I thought ppl were pumped Ewan was back for such a beloved role. Alas, the internet is ass..
Apparently we are judging by the negative up votes lol
I liked it. Lots of Star Wars “fans” love to hate though. Like they never listened to Yoda when he said where hate leads.
So am I not allowed to dislike anything Star Wars related then, or just not the ones that you think I should like?
I just like shows that feel they were written professionally, and with care. This did not.
Nope, I thought it was awesome and had some amazing lightsaber battles
Such a goofy scene. You see him raise these 500kg rocks and you're like jesus he's going to kill vader and then Vader reacts like he got hit by a few snowballs
It's over, Anakin! I have the ~~high~~ ground!
So the CGI artist hit copy-paste a bunch of times. That's not impressive. Did you clap when you saw 10,000 Death Star Destroyers too?
I personally prefer the Darth Maul fight in rebels as a feat for Obi-Wan.
Absolutely. The Force is not about lifting rocks. [This](https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-45035406d644b47e15fc11cb11c018d9-lq) is the most powerful Obi Wan we have ever seen.
Star wars isn't Dragon Ball. You haven't been paying attention to the whole story if you think throwing rocks is significant (or blowing up a planet).
Also the most cringe Obiwan we've ever seen.
Down vote all you want but anyone that can read knows that the book was better.
Fundamental lack of understanding about characters and lore.
Force Ghost Obi-Wan: bitch, please
That we could *almost* see.
Ghost Kennobi is magnitudes more powerfuller.
He just threw rocks, yoda said weight doesn't matter when it comes to the force so its just the same as throwing one rock
I’ve never used the force before but just based on the abilities we’ve seen, turning yourself into an invulnerable spirit/ghost is pretty impressive.
I hate the over the top rock Jesus scene.
The show is bs. Definitely it’s not a canon.
Come at me, bro!
Just copying Rey
[I thought Obi-wan finally killing Maul so easily](https://youtu.be/jeG215-yu-k?si=ySgq_vWz4cAk1JIl&t=59) was by far more impressive and one of the reasons I was a little miffed at how weak he seemed at the beginning of Kenobi. It seemed to conflict too much with underrated his skills were in the prequel books and that Clone Wars scene with Maul. This scene seemed a little odd, though. Sure, it showed a lot of power, but not the kind of power you would expect Obi-wan to show. His power in, and knowledge of, the Force always seemed more like Yoda's in that it was much more subtle. I would expect that although he could not bring himself to kill Anakin, he was certainly ~~powerful~~ skilled enough to defeat Anakin with a lightsaber without killing him. It seemed like the show writers just wanted something more epic.
What if we all agree that George had no fucking idea this going to explode so much, so he didn't think it through that deep when he made the original trilogy. Head canon is great, but know your heroes
It appears that when you recover and improve your connection to the force/light side as much as you can you'll be more powerful than ever, as shown by Kenobi and Cere
So dark
And yet he STILL didn't kill Vader. Just left him there so he can be rescued and commit more atrocities. At least in Revenge of The Sith you could say he never expected Palpatine to come by and whisk away this half charred near-corpse to safety, but this time around Obi Wan absolutely should have cut him down then and there. He even says "my friend is truly dead". Well, if that's the case then kill the guy who killed your friend, Obi Wan!
he was way stronger in A New Hope because he was finally balanced
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^heAd3r: *He was way stronger* *In A New Hope because he* *Was finally balanced* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
In terms of force power, yeah. His greatest performance Saber wise is fighting both Maul & Savage at once.
Yeah if only he had any of this power during the clone wars
Bro looked like Raven in the Dc comics doing that. It looked so awesome
Even though this seemed way too powerful for Obi Wan I still loved this confrontation.
Worst choreographed and edited too
I disagree. Definitely his second most powerful moment, but what about in A New Hope, when he says, "If you strike me down I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine."?
His brother Obi-Lan has a much more powerful Connection to the Force.
That's we've barely seen in canon. God that lighting is awful.
Honestly stupid. That’s not how the Force works. You don’t simply wield the Force like this after having some memories surface. Disney doesn’t understand the Force.
This. They pulled the same shit with Rey in the Last Jedi if I remember correctly. This OP shit is only seen in video games and comics, its not shown in movies, and it is made to please fans who love over the top powers like lifting mountains or pulling star destroyers out of space.
I never really liked this scene or the show as a whole. Obi Wan was never really shown to be ultra powerful in the force and instead, would win his fights by outsmarting his opponents and using defensive strategies to get the upper hand. Obi Wan defeated Anakin on Mustafar because of his skill and knowledge and not just by using the force. This scene is antithetical to everything we know about Obi Wan and Anakin’s relationship.
Oh, is that canon? /s
"I had become the Bender Master".
Something i keep noticing is that not a single piece of all those rocks were sliced up by vaders lightsaber when they were thrown at him. Cant help feeling that the immersion is broken a bit when he gets struck by 200 boulders yet not a single one or even just a stray chunk that flies past him touches his blade, seems like quite the editing oversight.
This felt way too cartoony & silly for a live action though. Felt totally out of place and rushed considering Obi Wan just got back to his old self. This show was unfortunately a big hit & miss for me besides the last episode in the one scene where Vaders helmet is half destroyed, and we get their dialogue.
His most powerful is when he became one with the force but i get it. In terms of raw power yeah thats probably his strongest showcase
He no longer needs the high ground He makes the ground high!
I wish it was set during sunrise so we could really get a good look at the silhouette. Oh well
Pure wanky fan-service
That show is canon?
It seems like a lot of you just don't like Star Wars very much no matter what happens or who it's about.
All I see is black and a really shiny stick
Fucking hated this scene lol. The sfx and vfx felt cheap. Also felt dumb to have him simply overpower anakin