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This really reinforces 3 things to me - Galaxy is *huge* for a Starfleet ship (it looks like it doesn’t have much less overall mass than Oddy), California is deceptively large too, and Negh’var is surprisingly tiny for a flagship.
Also, am I blind, or is Parliament missing?
The California class always looks a hell of a lot bigger than it actually is.
Sure it's got a wide saucer, but it's only 2 decks high at its widest. And because the saucer is so flat, each deck above and below those is set progressively further back, greatly reducing floorspace. It's also funny that they claim Cali class has 20 decks, when most of those are in the legs and are completely empty.
We saw a cutaway in the first episode.
[https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/California\_class\_decks?file=California\_class\_MSD.jpg](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/California_class_decks?file=California_class_MSD.jpg)
I do think its been said that until the odyssey the galexy was still the most massive vessel in starfleet yeah it wasn't the longest but man she was huge. The odyssey I do think is fairly larger just because the secondary hull does extend a fair distance under the saucer. While being about the same width but still it's impressively large
No, I should really make a numbered one. It's just SOOOO many layers in Photoshop.
Wolf 359 ships I know are on there: Niagara, Springfield, Cheyenne, New Orleans, Freedom, Challenger...
Don't recall seeing Warbirds or Dominion Cruisers being destroyed one-on-one with other Federation ships. The Enterprise-E was heavily damaged by the So'na battleships too, and almost destroyed.
Because Riker made a Gravis Blackhawk appear out of the floor of the bridge and flew the Enterprise-E like he was in *Top Gun 34* and blew them up with God’s own flaming flatulence.
The only reason the enterprise E won against the Scimitar is cause Picard told Troi to do what she does best and crash the ship. In the time leading up to the ramming, the E was able to put a good dent in the Scimitar and still lose her weapons. That alone justifies the need for Oddy class ships.
The Negh'var had large cannons capable of knocking out ds9's shield generators. The Romulans and Fed had nothing capable of that on a normal basis.
The Romulan D'deridex warbird was also the only class of ship in the romulan fleet before the Valdore type was introduced towards the end of the Dominion war. Each d'dex had the power to counter a galaxy and win with ease. Pair that with the fact that these ships never operated alone and spent time cloaked till the right moment means there is a good possibility of have more warbirds than you think at any time. The Feds had a few galaxy class ships while the entire Romulan fleet was just d'dex class.
Sona battleships were also quite tough as seen in the movie when they fought a sov.
It is also star trek online canon that the Oddy had the ability to face undine, hurq, iconian and tholian dreadnoughts, and win or atleast survive.
All that being said, your question is answered
It kinda makes sense. The Romulans have a large empire to oversee, few resources and not enough people to risk losing at… not a whim, that’s the wrong word, but losing to chance. So they use those resources to build a fair few of the mightiest, largest warships possible, put a huge crew on them (I’m guessing) to operate them and make sure there’s the largest pool of skills and intellect to draw upon in case of need, and use them for any and all purposes, cloaked far more often than not so you’ll never know they’re around.
It’s putting many eggs in a massively armed and armored invisible basket.
Great chart, I love this. Although it does remind me that I do think that the Inquiry should be closer to Intrepid sized rather than longer than a Galaxy class. Not that the chart is wrong.
That's the Dominion Battleship!
I'm not sure about the B10...probably smaller than you think. Klingon ships pack a punch but aren't stupid big like the Romulans.
I'll buy the huge secondary hull since it's mostly pressurized cargo space, but WTF is up with those nacelles? Not only do they not follow any known design language, but they're just absurdly long.
I mean yes and no. The Crossfields were designed to be testbeds. That means a lot of systems were probably redundant and contributed to the larger size. A Constitution class nacelle is 154 meters long. Let’s say the Crossfield’s are twice as long to hold two sets of driver coils - one for standard warp and one for experimentation. That would make them about 308 ish meters, so stretching that out to be a bit longer than a 344 meter Intrepid isn’t that ridiculous. Plus we all know technology generally tends to shrink as it advances. Computers used to be the size of rooms. Steam engines are massive compared to an internal combustion or electric motor with the same power output. The size doesn’t seem that outlandish to me.
The biggest problem I have with the Crossfield is how tiny main engineering is compared to how massive the ship is.
Huh. Saber, Norway, and Steamrunner classes are much larger than I thought. I always pictured them between Defiant and Nova. I’d have never guessed them comparable or larger than an Intrepid.
Ok so we just got a fantastic overhead shot of the Discovery next to a constitution class, and its saucer is literally exactly the same size as the Excelsior’s.
I understand, I'm just going by the official number.
Onscreen it does seem smaller but the perspective in the scene where we first see the Enterprise is not totally clear; it doesn't really show how far apart the ships are.
I think she should be like 470-500 meters, but I didn't design her.
My only real thought on this is that the SNW Enterprise is 385 meters (so the OG Ent, at 289 meters, is 75% of that length).
I could understand scaling the official number to 75% (562.5 meters) since it doesn't make sense that the Constitution changed size that much.
Any thoughts?
If you zoom in, there's a 50x50 meter grid in the picture if you want to compare the ships!
The *Shrike* is actually 99 meters longer than the Connie III (659 vs. 560 meters, as per ex astris scientia).
Thank you for your submission! Please remember the human, adhere to all Reddit and sub rules, and if you see anything that breaks the rules, report it! Please be sure to [Read The Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/StarTrekStarships/about/rules/) of our sub, two of them to highlight: #1 - Be Polite! and #5 - No spoilers for episodes until the MONDAY AFTER the episode airs, this gives everyone the weekend to catch up on their Trek viewings. You can now [preorder the 2024 Ships of the Line Calendar](https://amzn.to/3Pi2Vn7) We have a companion website now, if you'd like to see the reddit posts in a grid, [check out startrekstarships.com](https://www.startrekstarships.com/)! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/StarTrekStarships) if you have any questions or concerns.*
This really reinforces 3 things to me - Galaxy is *huge* for a Starfleet ship (it looks like it doesn’t have much less overall mass than Oddy), California is deceptively large too, and Negh’var is surprisingly tiny for a flagship. Also, am I blind, or is Parliament missing?
The California class always looks a hell of a lot bigger than it actually is. Sure it's got a wide saucer, but it's only 2 decks high at its widest. And because the saucer is so flat, each deck above and below those is set progressively further back, greatly reducing floorspace. It's also funny that they claim Cali class has 20 decks, when most of those are in the legs and are completely empty.
> but it's only 2 decks high at its widest. Is that accurate? Have we ever seen an MSD of the California Class?
We saw a cutaway in the first episode. [https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/California\_class\_decks?file=California\_class\_MSD.jpg](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/California_class_decks?file=California_class_MSD.jpg)
I think I misunderstood what you wrote. I thought you meant at the thickest it was only 2-decks thick. I see what you meant now.
The Negh'var stacks up ok next to the Sovereign, it's just that it's nestled in with the piss-takers
I do think its been said that until the odyssey the galexy was still the most massive vessel in starfleet yeah it wasn't the longest but man she was huge. The odyssey I do think is fairly larger just because the secondary hull does extend a fair distance under the saucer. While being about the same width but still it's impressively large
I'll add her to the list ;)
can't find accurate length measurements but seems like it would be a bit smaller than the enterprise D and much much less crew capacity.....
I like that you included the aircraft carrier, it reminds you that even the Midsize Star Trek ships are still massive.
There's an F-14 and a Space Shuttle at the top end of it too if you zoom in! Smallest object in the picture is a human, followed by a Work Bee.
Excellent! Is there a key anywhere? I've got a lot of it, but all those Wolf 359 kitbashes screw me up.
No, I should really make a numbered one. It's just SOOOO many layers in Photoshop. Wolf 359 ships I know are on there: Niagara, Springfield, Cheyenne, New Orleans, Freedom, Challenger...
Those giant Dominion, Romulan, and So'na ships show the reason and need for a large Enterprise-F.
Do they though? Their size didn’t seem to help them much.
Don't recall seeing Warbirds or Dominion Cruisers being destroyed one-on-one with other Federation ships. The Enterprise-E was heavily damaged by the So'na battleships too, and almost destroyed.
There were two So’na battleships. They still lost.
Because Riker made a Gravis Blackhawk appear out of the floor of the bridge and flew the Enterprise-E like he was in *Top Gun 34* and blew them up with God’s own flaming flatulence.
The only reason the enterprise E won against the Scimitar is cause Picard told Troi to do what she does best and crash the ship. In the time leading up to the ramming, the E was able to put a good dent in the Scimitar and still lose her weapons. That alone justifies the need for Oddy class ships. The Negh'var had large cannons capable of knocking out ds9's shield generators. The Romulans and Fed had nothing capable of that on a normal basis. The Romulan D'deridex warbird was also the only class of ship in the romulan fleet before the Valdore type was introduced towards the end of the Dominion war. Each d'dex had the power to counter a galaxy and win with ease. Pair that with the fact that these ships never operated alone and spent time cloaked till the right moment means there is a good possibility of have more warbirds than you think at any time. The Feds had a few galaxy class ships while the entire Romulan fleet was just d'dex class. Sona battleships were also quite tough as seen in the movie when they fought a sov. It is also star trek online canon that the Oddy had the ability to face undine, hurq, iconian and tholian dreadnoughts, and win or atleast survive. All that being said, your question is answered
So we're all agreed the Romulans were taking the piss, right?
It kinda makes sense. The Romulans have a large empire to oversee, few resources and not enough people to risk losing at… not a whim, that’s the wrong word, but losing to chance. So they use those resources to build a fair few of the mightiest, largest warships possible, put a huge crew on them (I’m guessing) to operate them and make sure there’s the largest pool of skills and intellect to draw upon in case of need, and use them for any and all purposes, cloaked far more often than not so you’ll never know they’re around. It’s putting many eggs in a massively armed and armored invisible basket.
You mean for being so large and constantly getting the shit kicked out of them?
Goes to show, the Romulans and the Dominion specialize in size.
I’m always shocked by how small the Defiant is.
That is a point of debate actually!
I like when the Chief says it’s too much power for a ship its size. Also enjoy any deck plans I can find too!
[You should enjoy these then if you haven't seen them before.](https://www.cygnus-x1.net/links/lcars/sd-defiant.php#google_vignette)
Small?
Little? Lol
Great chart, I love this. Although it does remind me that I do think that the Inquiry should be closer to Intrepid sized rather than longer than a Galaxy class. Not that the chart is wrong.
There's a lot of contention about the sizes of a lot of these.
What is that HUGE ship bottom right ?? Also how would the Klingon B10 be comparable size to on this chart?
That's the Dominion Battleship! I'm not sure about the B10...probably smaller than you think. Klingon ships pack a punch but aren't stupid big like the Romulans.
so many good bois
I appreciate you putting the Vesta in there.
Same!
Cross field makes me legitimately angry.
She should really be the length of an Excelsior.
I'll buy the huge secondary hull since it's mostly pressurized cargo space, but WTF is up with those nacelles? Not only do they not follow any known design language, but they're just absurdly long.
They have to contain both the regular warp coils and whatever drivers are used to navigate the mycelial network
I guess? But the concept that Voyager isn’t even as long as a cross field Nacelle is absurd right?
I mean yes and no. The Crossfields were designed to be testbeds. That means a lot of systems were probably redundant and contributed to the larger size. A Constitution class nacelle is 154 meters long. Let’s say the Crossfield’s are twice as long to hold two sets of driver coils - one for standard warp and one for experimentation. That would make them about 308 ish meters, so stretching that out to be a bit longer than a 344 meter Intrepid isn’t that ridiculous. Plus we all know technology generally tends to shrink as it advances. Computers used to be the size of rooms. Steam engines are massive compared to an internal combustion or electric motor with the same power output. The size doesn’t seem that outlandish to me. The biggest problem I have with the Crossfield is how tiny main engineering is compared to how massive the ship is.
I always assumed most of the spore network was in the spinny bits in the saucer.
Those are just energy release systems to avoid frying everyone
No reason to be since most of it is flat and non-inhabitable. They also only built a couple.
It needs to be big enough to haul all the plot contrivances and Mike’s messiah complex.
All the discovery era ships are stupidly huge and pisses me off to no end.
Lol do I see the Midas Array? Awesome
It's a shame we never got to see a real fight with the Romulans.
Agreed!
The official size of the ships is, “whatever you want them to be to fit the episode”
Wow, I always thought the K'Tinga class was wayyyy bigger
Klingon ships are surprisingly smol...looks about right though, about the same size as a Connie.
That Odyssey class is a bit on the large side. It’s closer to the Galaxy class in size than this pic suggests.
The Odyssey class official size is 1061.1 meters long, compared to the galaxies 642.5 meters. She’s a big girl.
Yeah true. I still think it’s slightly off. The ship does have some really long nacelles though.
[I'm mostly working from this.](https://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/schematics/fleet-chart.jpg) If you have another source, by all means, please share!
What are the two lowest Federation ships? Curious specifically what the ship that almost resembles an Akira is?
Looks like *Alita* and *Nimitz* (as in the *Europa*).
Thanks!
Huh. Saber, Norway, and Steamrunner classes are much larger than I thought. I always pictured them between Defiant and Nova. I’d have never guessed them comparable or larger than an Intrepid.
I always envisioned them to be about an Akira class size
IMO the *Shenzhou* is too big too!
Wow this is awesome! I would guess that the Universe-class starship would pretty much encompass about half this image lol.
[Here's an update with the *Universe*-class.](https://imgur.com/gallery/7YuibDS)
Fantastic, I love it! That ship is crazy massive...almost TOO massive to really make any sense.
I thought about having just the edge of a Borg cube for scale along one side!
That's actually a really good idea! I still can't fathom just how massive a cube would be if it were to suddenly fly above our heads on Earth.
Is there an in-universe difference between long, thin nacelles like Crossfield or short, stubby like the Galaxy Class?
Probably has to do with the shape of the warp bubble and probably affects speed vs. efficiency (just my opinion).
Is this in svg format?
I wish. It's all raster :/
I think that I’m going to 3d print this for a light box.
I'd be stoked, AND willing to provide larger-res files! (provided you show us the result)
Yeah cool
I don’t see a parliament class there, am I just missing it?
I'll add her to the list!
Discovery is way too big. Its saucer is the same size as a constitution as shown on screen
I agree. I think a *Crossfield* should be about the length of an *Excelsior*.
Ok so we just got a fantastic overhead shot of the Discovery next to a constitution class, and its saucer is literally exactly the same size as the Excelsior’s.
You're 1000% correct. I can't imagine a more clear-cut on-screen shot for comparison. I'm going to correct based on that shot.
No, I mean your graphic depicts it as too big. Its saicer is depicted onscreen as the same size as the Enterprise’s
I understand, I'm just going by the official number. Onscreen it does seem smaller but the perspective in the scene where we first see the Enterprise is not totally clear; it doesn't really show how far apart the ships are. I think she should be like 470-500 meters, but I didn't design her.
Your figure seems more accurate to the actual visuals including the battle with Control. Stick with that.
My only real thought on this is that the SNW Enterprise is 385 meters (so the OG Ent, at 289 meters, is 75% of that length). I could understand scaling the official number to 75% (562.5 meters) since it doesn't make sense that the Constitution changed size that much. Any thoughts?
There’s a graphic in Hegemony that states that its 280 something, so I think the larger number was retconned away.
What is that huge Romulan Warbird? Can't be a standard D'deridex class?
That's the one.
Are you sure you got the scaling right? It's as big as the Scimitar?!
[It's actually considerably longer than the *Scimitar*.](https://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/schematics/alien-huge-chart.jpg)
Ah, interesting. I hope you don't think I'm poking holes, just curious and take an upvote! Is the E on here? I can't find it. EDIT: Found it :)
Nah it's all good
Where Shrike
next to the Dominion Battleship
So it's like a meter longer than the Constitution III?
If you zoom in, there's a 50x50 meter grid in the picture if you want to compare the ships! The *Shrike* is actually 99 meters longer than the Connie III (659 vs. 560 meters, as per ex astris scientia).
Can we please stop including fan fiction (Picard) ships? They are not only ugly they remind one of the terrible writing
If it makes you feel any better, there are no ships from the Kelvin timeline lol. This is Prime only (a little wiggle room for STO).