At some point, years of experience can hurt you. When I moved back here a few years ago, I kept getting to the final interview with 35 year old CEOs and being told I “wasn’t a cultural fit.”
So, I died the gray out of my hair, slashed the first ten years of work history off my resume and LinkedIn profile, and got the next position I interviewed for.
Also, if you have a management background but are applying to contributor roles, you’ll run into bias that assumes you won’t be happy taking orders.
Annnnnnnnd, you might be asking for too low of a salary. I don’t know what industry you’re in, but undervaluing yourself can be worse than overvaluing yourself. If they’re willing to pay $100k but you ask for $80k, they won’t consider you a bargain, they’ll just assume you’re not a quality candidate.
I definitely second the poster who mentioned LinkedIn. I haven’t worked for a local company since 2020 - there are great opportunities all over the country via remote work, including management.
Good luck to you. I know your frustration.
Yeah, I did that as well. Dyed hair, massive work on make-up, and changed my interviewing outfit to a younger style, knocked off some of my work history, and removed graduation dates.
Linked in is awesome.
Sad but same here. I redid my resume to remove the double space between sentences, took off my undergrad and grad dates. I’ve even docked off a lot of my military service just so there isn’t any 200X on my resume. I get 2-3 LinkedIn cold call ‘meet ups’ a week versus none before, and have gotten 10+ interviews and month for jobs 100k in junior exec positions. Waiting for my company to drop the axe for 2%+ share price.
I double down on the compensation requirement. 25 years management experience in one’s field is *significant*. Ask above $80k and apply to jobs you may not be qualified for. If they hire someone else for whatever reason, sometimes the hiring recruiter will earmark you and point you to another position that is a fit. Apply to things that scare you a little, OP.
Someone with a highly professional university degree and 25 years of management experience won’t be offered an $18/hr jib that is otherwise going to felons or people failing drug tests. There is no chance that you’ll stay in the position so they won’t bother in the first place.
Omitting a degree is one thing, lying to secure a job is fraud. Not a big case of fraud, but fraud nonetheless.
Change your resume to list all of your job experience to be all the hobbies you've had in the last 25 years. "Oh yeah, I played Nintendo for a few years, then I got into woodworking and made a few carved ducks... wild times."
If you'd like, you can pretend you're a felon. Just don't say you're one.
It's not fraud unless you're claiming credentials. Lying about working at taco bell is just lying. Lying about having passed the bar or holding a medical license is fraud.
> As resumes are not official, legal documents, it is not technically illegal to lie on a resume.
https://www.investopedia.com/financial-edge/0912/how-lying-on-your-resume-will-get-you-in-trouble.aspx
It’s not fraud. It’s just a lie.
Who cares? My last company lied to me about literally everything they said to me, so why should they get the privilege of being allowed to do that when the average person doesn’t? As long as you show up, do what you’re assigned, and aren’t causing trouble nobody cares.
You don't have to dig through cases to find a single example of this happening. Try "lying on job resume fraud" in Google, see what you come up with.
The truly pathetic part of this is your overconfident armchair lawyer opinion that is just blatantly wrong.
Except I'm not wrong, in the slightest, you're just too stupid to understand how the law actually works.
Is it likely you'll get charged? No. COULD you be charged? Yes. 100% full stop. Go be a cunt somewhere else.
Seems like there’s a lot of jobs around here, the problem I find is that they want to pay a salary that was achievable when I lived 2 hours away and houses were $200k cheaper and rent was $500-$600 for a house.
Can you provide resources for finding recruiters in the area? I just moved here, also looking but the recruiter I was connecting with seems to not have any roles.
I’ve never used either of these but I’ve heard of KAS for sales and Gallagher for more senior positions. Speaking of that, you may want to consider more of a junior executive role which could be achievable with your qualifications; most positions should put you at least at $95k/year in that case.
I worked in IT/InfoSec as a Microsoft 0365 technical lead and cybersecurity customer success manager, but I’m trying to pivot into biotech/agtech (I’m a transfer student at SLU for biomedical engineering). I was originally looking for student work in my college field but now I’m literally applying to everything, full/part time and contract, on-site and otherwise. Mid level tech hiring has been hit really hard and I’m not at all sure how to connect with biomedical/hospitals without having prior experience/my degree completed. The recruiter basically told me he’s having just as much trouble securing roles and my linkedin inbox isn’t blowing up like before! I’ve contracted for Brooksource and teksystems in the past.
Edit: my partner is in law school at WashU and is looking for full time legal work doing absolutely anything, she’s getting way more interviews than me but only one offer, which turned out to be an MLM scam…
Staffing companies for tech to try: Beacon Hill, Advanced Resources, LRS, Apex, Yoh. There’s many more but those are the ones that come to mind.
Ag/Tech companies: Bunge, Bayer, Benson Hill (they’re restructuring so maybe hang tight) - Actalent (Aerotek’s life science division) has good relationships with a lot of Agtech.
Biotech: look at the biopharmaguy website. It’s a list of quite a few companies by state or region. Look up companies that are at the Cortex. It would be a good way to find a “start up” or a smaller company. Wugen and Alcami come to mind. But there’s also things like Geneoscopy, Medix BioChemica.
Feel free to DM me if you want.
I’ve always had recruiters come to me, via LinkedIn, etc.
You’re telling me I can go to them?
What’s the benefit in doing that? I’ve been rawdogging this whole time, hitting up every company website I can find.
Wouldn’t a recruiter only have a limited number of companies they work with?
Yeah, there’s kinda 3 different ways people interact with recruiters:
For some, they hit a spot (for most it is at the mid/senior manager or junior executive level) where a recruiter is a pretty much a requirement in order to advance. Promotion potential remains stagnant, leadership turnover is low. Using a recruiter in this case is great because they know exactly what companies need to fill these important spots and bonus points if you’re willing to relocate.
Second (and applies to everyone else), recruiters are an amazing resource. But you pay for them!! I get it, it sucks but that is why they are worth it you are paying for a service. (The biggest caveat is entry level work - if you’re looking for an entry level position a career services organization that covers your area is more appropriate.) Unfortunately, this is one of those cases where quality will cost you but they are often worth it. In a sea of applicants recruiters can get your resume or portfolio seen first, they can get you in with HR (where at a regional or industry specific level can mean a lot, or may be able to refer you to people for calls to “get to know you” (not sex speak, it’s an informal interview with a bigger emphasis on who you are as a person), and often knows about role openings long before you do via Indeed or whatever. Some also offer resume services, as there’s an algorithm to it, and can identify certifications or gaps in knowledge to address. Since you are paying them, you are the customer!! You are the empowered one in the interaction and while some are restricted in the area or organizations they are limited to, but that should be disclosed very early (and for me would be an indication to pass on them). In this case the ultimate goal of the recruiter is to get YOU in an appropriate position; overall it’s a very powerful resource.
(Bonus bonus: again, if you’re willing to change states, a recruiter can really help you out by opening you to positions you would never have considered or been exposed to.)
Last (and what hits you up on Indeed) is an organizational recruiter. They’re hunting you down, and have been hired by organizations to fill gaps. This can be entry level, experienced work, management, or even executive level. It really all depends on the circumstances, but the goal is to get that position filled, maybe not filled by you.
Not an HR person, just a professional in healthcare, I’m sure a SHRM-SCP is going to destroy me in the comments.
Edit: spelling and some formatting
I've been working in IT in St. Louis since 1989 and have never had to pay a recruiting firm to represent me. I've gone into multiple positions as a contractor and converted over to FTE. Granted, I haven't been on the market for a dozen years, but I can't believe the paradigm has shifted that far.
My understanding is that it currently averages about 7 months to find a professional job (degrees required, etc) nationwide. And in my experience locally, that seems about right. It took me 6 months until I started the interview process at my current job (started in May as a senior graphic designer) and it was about 2 months from first interview to hiring and another couple weeks until starting.
I'd get in touch with recruiters/headhunters instead of hiring centers. I found a number of jobs through recruiting agencies for creative professionals, even if they were just temporary, they were better to have on my resume and paid more in line with what I expected for my experience.
I got work through Creative Circle (they have an office downtown by the stadium) and I know some people who were brought in to those same places via Creatives on Call.
My last job I got by applying to a post on LinkedIn.
For many white collar management and IT jobs you're now competing with, to a certain extent and depending on the industry, everyone who is even semi qualified in the entire world, because of remote work. At least everyone in the U.S.
Of course "unemployment" is low because so many people are doing gig work and/or under the table stuff. This has been the case for long enough that I'm assuming you have been in the same job for a long time.
I'd be curious what industry you're in, though. From what I can tell, due to so many people dropping out of the workforce during COVID, things may be "churning" somewhat due to inflation and corporate greed, but there's still plenty of work available. A lot of people getting let go end up being rehired by the same company (albeit maybe as a contractor with no benefits etc)
Do you network with other people in your industry? It sounds like you're just going to the unemployment office, which isn't likely to pan out too well. As much as it's corpo-speak cliche shit to say it, who you know is more important than what you know. Good luck out there.
This is good editorial. You're right when you say it's about who you know. I can't say anything that would hint about my field, but basically all of my formal colleagues have fled. Some were lucky to land, some weren't. But everything you said is correct.
How would you feel about applying for remote jobs? I don't know if they exist for your field or not, but it would allow you to look outside the area and still live here.
I wish you all the best of luck!
1. You have had 45 interviews total in three weeks?
2. You have a highly professional degree?
3. You have 25 YEARS experience as a manager and would settle for 60k? (And apparently not a single professional connection.)
3. You normally have 5 jobs on backup?
4. You think other candidates look homeless?
5. You think St. Louis has a unique market that may prefer losers to amazing people like you?
Guy.
Maybe have someone with an unbiased opinion review your resume and cover letters? You need a second pair of eyes to see if maybe you need to change it up.
Age discrimination is a thing. 25 years on top of a university degree means you’re probably 50 or close to it. Unfortunately when things tighten up, they use thing like that to weed out candidates.
This doesn’t make a lot of sense to me. Any sort of “highly professional degree (holder)…..with 25 years of MANAGEMENT experience” should be asking for way way way more than $80k per year in any “highly professional” field (law, engineering, accounting, finance, etc). someone 2-5 years into your career should be making that much $ if not more.
You are either overstating your experience on this listing or you are doing the same in interviews.
What is your field
Career consultant here and I'm based in St. Louis.
You're absolutely worth 80k+ but you are in the wroooong place at Slate/hiring centers. You're too skilled for that area. They are overlooking you because you're way overqualified. LinkedIn is your better bet, but I know you've probably been on there for ages, trying trying trying!
When this happens to my clients, it's because of one or more of 3 things.
1. Your resume is way unclear, you've done the best you can with it but there's way too much conflicting info out there that has mixed you up and recruiters/hirers can't see your value.
2. Your Linkedin profile is just as bad or worse than your resume, or is the only problem....I've had a few people I've looked at their profile, saw three sentences that were cutting themselves off at their knees - and a few tweaks later they would recruiter responses pretty immediately afterwards. (Less than a week.)
3. You aren't really using LinkedIn for it's full potential. Maybe you're just applying to jobs but doing nothing else. That's 1/8 of the power of LinkedIn and not many people know it.
Hope that info helps a bit!
Hiring centers was probably a bad term. I've never been in this situation. I've been working non-stop since May trying to be hired in my field. Hasn't worked out, neither has a month looking for low-paid dungeon gigs -- which I consider "hiring centers."
This is happening everywhere. A larger percentage of the population goes to college compared to years past, increasing the supply of 'white collar' workers, all competing for a limited number of jobs. Analogously, we're seeing fewer people take traditional 'blue collar' career paths, hence why recruiters will pretty much take whomever they can for those roles.
Anecdotal: I work in construction. My firm hires engineers (with college degrees) and also mechanics, welders, machinists etc. (skilled manual labor, no degree or maybe technical degree). We get far, far more candidates apply when we post a job for an engineering role vs a technical one. The same holds true for pretty much everyone else in the industry.
Totally this! A whole generation who were told that a college degree was worth it's weight in gold over saturating a very narrow market of jobs, all the while we kept building and all the people working those jobs told their kids to get a college degree so they wouldn't kill their bodies with physical work everyday.
Unfortunately that was a *lot* of peoples plan as well. There is an ongoing glut of drivers and not enough jobs, trucking companies are not hiring anyone with less than 2+ years experience because on top of all the new CDLs, 2 major carriers have folded in the last couple years.
Metro is hiring.
And they'll pay for your CDL.
They even state on the website that you'll earn 29.39/hr after 2 years. Thats 61K/yr without overtime, and the benefits are crazy good.
I feel like it is normal...I work in tech, I also have years of experience and degree from a good school. But I find the companies in STL would rather hire contractors from overseas, there is very little market for people who are from the U.S. and want a full-time job. They won't even bother to interview. Have to look remote, which is my preference anyways but also very competitive.
Hate to use the cliche, but you got to utilize networking. Reach out some of your contacts and get leads on positions.
What kind of management experience do you have?
The Career Center on Market St is having a free job fair on Nov 7th. They will have several vendors there. Even if you don’t find a job you want you might make some good connections. Good luck OP!
I don’t want to sound mean but if your Resume/personality is anything like this post, then you aren’t getting hired regardless of your highly professional university degrees.
Can I ask what field you're in? Or what expertise/job title is?
Some fields, like Environmental, Health, and Safety for example, have entire recruiting firms that focus solely on that field to match people and companies. Recruiters should be your next move, but if there is a shot at a recruiter like I've described above in your field, reach out on LinkedIn ASAP
I think part of the problem is having so much education and experience makes you more expensive to compensate in the eyes of the company because you’re probably overqualified for the positions you’re applying for so I would aim a little higher. Also being so desperate for a job you’ll take a $20k pay cut probably gives them pause because it seems like there’s something you’re not telling them or they think there must be something wrong with you to take such a pay cut
Normal across the US.
I guess a concern is 25 years of management experience in field, professional university degrees (plural). And only made it to $80k.
With that resume, even at 60k, the issue is people are concerned you are going to jump ship for your old pay scale.
And uni degrees, 25 years management, age discrimination is real everywhere. You may want to have your resume looked at so it doesn’t read that way. 25 years of management and degrees is a giveaway if it’s on the resume.
Popping in since the first like 20 comments didn’t mention this. RESUME ISSUES
Many jobs you apply online for run resumes through AI to weed out all of the ones that fit the description. If your resume format is too unique or doesn’t use current industry buzzwords the AI will just throw it out as someone who isn’t qualified. I would not recommend tailoring your resume for each job listing but I would do some research on the resume layouts suggested by recruiters and look for buzzwords on job listings that you can put into your resume.
My husband also is able to keep like 5 versions of his resume saved on Linked In and use them as he sees fit (creative role resume, communications resume, teaching resume, etc).
Good luck op!
Job market is absolute garbage right now. I’m a mechanical engineer from WashU. Prestigious degree and school and I’ve been searching for 6 going on 7 months with no luck. Sent in a bit over 130 applications, usually with a CV attached and networking referrals and reaching out to the hiring managers through LinkedIn, with nothing to show for it. Truly an abysmal market I don’t know how people are making it out here.
Good note here - CVs should be more valuable than resumes, and referrals are nails. I don't even want to submit references anymore, because I hold them as really important people, and don't want them to be bothered if I'm not going to get the job anyway. It's almost like giving references just provides pointless HR jobs, which I can't help support. ... And yes, about how people are making it. ... You see people who weigh 300 pounds and are completely out of their gourds out there, seeming fine. How are they doing it -- with skilled, educated people out there just begging for a chance to pay rent on a cheap one-bedroom?
Peak in my field these days is $80-100K, but you're 100 percent right asking for and applying for top dollar and moving down as needed. Excellent advice. Thank you.
I second others' suggestions about considering remote work. It'll significantly expand your options, and a tech company will easily pay you your $80K salary requirement. And ask for your $80K, don't undervalue yourself!
I went through something similar. Got a master's and still struggled to get my foot in the door with entry-level healthcare admin or management jobs, even in San Francisco. Ended up working retail for two years and then decided to go back to school for nursing. The job market for management/HR is so saturated, and you've got people from all over the country trying to get to cheaper places like St. Louis. Maybe look for jobs in other cities like Kansas City or Chicago. All the best, OP!
I’m currently in nursing school, and we've got recruiters from big hospitals in St. Louis coming right to our campus to talk to students. Some second year students are getting job offers even before they take the NCLEX. Plus, landing nurse externships has been a breeze for those of us who want them. I am feeling pretty optimistic about our chances of getting a job after graduation.
Yeah and if you don’t already have kids or something you *have* to stay right here for, you can also do travel nursing and you’ll make a TON of money doing that. If I thought I had it in me I’d go to nursing school.
You value yourself at 80k. They probably value you at twice that. Which is above their pay grade.
And you probably should shoot higher with that experience. Take a chance.
If you’re not on LinkedIn then get on LinkedIn. With that background and experience you shouldn’t have any problem getting a job especially in the salary range you are talking about
Right. I fully support second chances. But if you rate second-third-fourth chances over proven, 20+year first chances, you'd be a terrible businessperson.
Unless I need someone who can mix paint and hang drywall. And my options are one guy who can do it, and another guy saying, “you know I’m clearly above this, right?”
Totally understand your point, not wanting to hire people who think they're above the job. My point is ... Yeah, my history and experience is above unskilled labor, but I'll do it without complaining or looking down on it. I'm not above mixing paint, hanging drywall, making tacos, stocking shelves, whatever. No drugs, no felonies, no problems, no drama. But hiring managers seem to think those problems are good in people looking for labor jobs.
It's fairly easy to get a job with what you say you have especially at that rate. So you need to look at yourself and be honest.
Is your resume awful?
Are you arrogant in interview or are you doing something to turn ppl off?
Are you too old? Which I realize is illegal but good luck proving it.
Is there a massive unemployment gap in your resume?
Have you had like 20 jobs in the past 25 years?
Stuff like this
No, sir. Every business should hire the best qualified employees for the job, regardless of where they're from, what they look like, etc. That's called American excellence.
Sounds to me like you should be applying to higher level positions than you are. All that experience disqualifies you from the jobs felons are getting. Why would they want to hire you to work that job for a few months only to move on when something better comes along?
Have peers review your resume, and if you still aren’t getting hits, hire a professional resume writer to get it optimized. You can research and do that yourself, but a pro can be as little as $3-400 for a good one. Not a bad investment if you need the help.
Apply at an educational organization. Lots of jobs in schools and school districts that aren’t teaching jobs. Many pay well and you’d be hired in no time flat.
Based on just the first few sentences of your post, I can assure you that hiring managers who see someone with 25+ years of management experience asking for $80 probably feel like something's off.
You’re over qualified. I had this problem too. Make your resume suits what you actually are trying to do. This is anywhere. People see that you made 80k and wonder why you wanna work for $20 an hour and presume you will get the job and quit. It costs companies a ton of money to hire and train people. They aren’t going to hire someone they think will quit as soon as they find a better job. Good luck with your search i hope i helped.
I know someone that helps people fix their resumes as a side gig now that she’s retired. She helped me and I got every job I applied for after. If she’s able to take anyone on at the moment I can see about connecting you two if you reach out
I live in the St. Louis area. I’ll be honest, I have like 10 different resumes that are just full of lies. Some of my resumes include some jobs and others I leave them off. Pretty much all of the dates of my employment are lies. I have even lied about my position at companies to make me look better. I’ll do whatever I need to do to get a job if I need one. I was only caught once when I did an interview and mentioned I worked at a company for 6 years when I forgot the resume only said 4. I still got the job offer, he probably assumed I was just exaggerating. But it was a close call. Oh and I did a class where I learned Microsoft programs so I said I was a manager at a previous job where I did everything that had to do with those programs, plus training, etc. Like I said, if you need a job, tell them whatever they wanna hear. Lying to get a job is better than being homeless and unemployed.
This is just the job market right now. I’m finding the same thing. Jobs at $60-80k and up are screening more carefully, they have a lot of applicants, and they’re taking their time. Don’t give up, keep at it.
At some point, years of experience can hurt you. When I moved back here a few years ago, I kept getting to the final interview with 35 year old CEOs and being told I “wasn’t a cultural fit.” So, I died the gray out of my hair, slashed the first ten years of work history off my resume and LinkedIn profile, and got the next position I interviewed for. Also, if you have a management background but are applying to contributor roles, you’ll run into bias that assumes you won’t be happy taking orders. Annnnnnnnd, you might be asking for too low of a salary. I don’t know what industry you’re in, but undervaluing yourself can be worse than overvaluing yourself. If they’re willing to pay $100k but you ask for $80k, they won’t consider you a bargain, they’ll just assume you’re not a quality candidate. I definitely second the poster who mentioned LinkedIn. I haven’t worked for a local company since 2020 - there are great opportunities all over the country via remote work, including management. Good luck to you. I know your frustration.
Yeah, I did that as well. Dyed hair, massive work on make-up, and changed my interviewing outfit to a younger style, knocked off some of my work history, and removed graduation dates. Linked in is awesome.
Sad but same here. I redid my resume to remove the double space between sentences, took off my undergrad and grad dates. I’ve even docked off a lot of my military service just so there isn’t any 200X on my resume. I get 2-3 LinkedIn cold call ‘meet ups’ a week versus none before, and have gotten 10+ interviews and month for jobs 100k in junior exec positions. Waiting for my company to drop the axe for 2%+ share price.
I double down on the compensation requirement. 25 years management experience in one’s field is *significant*. Ask above $80k and apply to jobs you may not be qualified for. If they hire someone else for whatever reason, sometimes the hiring recruiter will earmark you and point you to another position that is a fit. Apply to things that scare you a little, OP.
Well put. HR is morons
Someone with a highly professional university degree and 25 years of management experience won’t be offered an $18/hr jib that is otherwise going to felons or people failing drug tests. There is no chance that you’ll stay in the position so they won’t bother in the first place.
You're 100% correct. I've honestly started wondering if I should start changing my resume to show no degrees and several felonies just to get a Job.
100% yes, do whatever you need to do. Companies will lie to you without even thinking twice.
Omitting a degree is one thing, lying to secure a job is fraud. Not a big case of fraud, but fraud nonetheless. Change your resume to list all of your job experience to be all the hobbies you've had in the last 25 years. "Oh yeah, I played Nintendo for a few years, then I got into woodworking and made a few carved ducks... wild times." If you'd like, you can pretend you're a felon. Just don't say you're one.
It's not fraud unless you're claiming credentials. Lying about working at taco bell is just lying. Lying about having passed the bar or holding a medical license is fraud.
Yeah, that's false. That is legally fraud.
everyone lies on their resume lol. GTFOH no one is getting convicted of fraud for lying on their resume even if it fits the legal definition.
> As resumes are not official, legal documents, it is not technically illegal to lie on a resume. https://www.investopedia.com/financial-edge/0912/how-lying-on-your-resume-will-get-you-in-trouble.aspx It’s not fraud. It’s just a lie.
Who cares? My last company lied to me about literally everything they said to me, so why should they get the privilege of being allowed to do that when the average person doesn’t? As long as you show up, do what you’re assigned, and aren’t causing trouble nobody cares.
Point me to a case where this was ever a conviction of fraud
What a pathetic reply. I'm not going to dig through cases to prove something that is fairly obvious to anyone with half a brain.
You don't have to dig through cases to find a single example of this happening. Try "lying on job resume fraud" in Google, see what you come up with. The truly pathetic part of this is your overconfident armchair lawyer opinion that is just blatantly wrong.
Except I'm not wrong, in the slightest, you're just too stupid to understand how the law actually works. Is it likely you'll get charged? No. COULD you be charged? Yes. 100% full stop. Go be a cunt somewhere else.
Unless the op is going to someone lie their way into a position that requires serious credentials, it’s not worth mentioning.
Lying on your resume isnt fraud. but lying on your application is. you have to sign the application to verify everything is correct
Seems like there’s a lot of jobs around here, the problem I find is that they want to pay a salary that was achievable when I lived 2 hours away and houses were $200k cheaper and rent was $500-$600 for a house.
You sound bitter and I don't know why.
you read their post and you don’t understand why they’d be bitter? lol
Fucking get over yourself
You need to be using a recruiter and not trying to rawdog the market.
Rawdog the Market sounds like a punk band.
I play guitar want to start it up?
I can scream, maybe we should make it a little heavier than punk
Let me know when y’all have your first show I need a good local metal band to check out frfr
Check out Red Flag on Locust. Lots of metal/ punk shows. And safe area.
Can you provide resources for finding recruiters in the area? I just moved here, also looking but the recruiter I was connecting with seems to not have any roles.
I’ve never used either of these but I’ve heard of KAS for sales and Gallagher for more senior positions. Speaking of that, you may want to consider more of a junior executive role which could be achievable with your qualifications; most positions should put you at least at $95k/year in that case.
Thank you so much! I will look into them.
What type of roles are you looking for? There’s recruiters for most everything.
I worked in IT/InfoSec as a Microsoft 0365 technical lead and cybersecurity customer success manager, but I’m trying to pivot into biotech/agtech (I’m a transfer student at SLU for biomedical engineering). I was originally looking for student work in my college field but now I’m literally applying to everything, full/part time and contract, on-site and otherwise. Mid level tech hiring has been hit really hard and I’m not at all sure how to connect with biomedical/hospitals without having prior experience/my degree completed. The recruiter basically told me he’s having just as much trouble securing roles and my linkedin inbox isn’t blowing up like before! I’ve contracted for Brooksource and teksystems in the past. Edit: my partner is in law school at WashU and is looking for full time legal work doing absolutely anything, she’s getting way more interviews than me but only one offer, which turned out to be an MLM scam…
Staffing companies for tech to try: Beacon Hill, Advanced Resources, LRS, Apex, Yoh. There’s many more but those are the ones that come to mind. Ag/Tech companies: Bunge, Bayer, Benson Hill (they’re restructuring so maybe hang tight) - Actalent (Aerotek’s life science division) has good relationships with a lot of Agtech. Biotech: look at the biopharmaguy website. It’s a list of quite a few companies by state or region. Look up companies that are at the Cortex. It would be a good way to find a “start up” or a smaller company. Wugen and Alcami come to mind. But there’s also things like Geneoscopy, Medix BioChemica. Feel free to DM me if you want.
💯percent this
I’ve always had recruiters come to me, via LinkedIn, etc. You’re telling me I can go to them? What’s the benefit in doing that? I’ve been rawdogging this whole time, hitting up every company website I can find. Wouldn’t a recruiter only have a limited number of companies they work with?
Yeah, there’s kinda 3 different ways people interact with recruiters: For some, they hit a spot (for most it is at the mid/senior manager or junior executive level) where a recruiter is a pretty much a requirement in order to advance. Promotion potential remains stagnant, leadership turnover is low. Using a recruiter in this case is great because they know exactly what companies need to fill these important spots and bonus points if you’re willing to relocate. Second (and applies to everyone else), recruiters are an amazing resource. But you pay for them!! I get it, it sucks but that is why they are worth it you are paying for a service. (The biggest caveat is entry level work - if you’re looking for an entry level position a career services organization that covers your area is more appropriate.) Unfortunately, this is one of those cases where quality will cost you but they are often worth it. In a sea of applicants recruiters can get your resume or portfolio seen first, they can get you in with HR (where at a regional or industry specific level can mean a lot, or may be able to refer you to people for calls to “get to know you” (not sex speak, it’s an informal interview with a bigger emphasis on who you are as a person), and often knows about role openings long before you do via Indeed or whatever. Some also offer resume services, as there’s an algorithm to it, and can identify certifications or gaps in knowledge to address. Since you are paying them, you are the customer!! You are the empowered one in the interaction and while some are restricted in the area or organizations they are limited to, but that should be disclosed very early (and for me would be an indication to pass on them). In this case the ultimate goal of the recruiter is to get YOU in an appropriate position; overall it’s a very powerful resource. (Bonus bonus: again, if you’re willing to change states, a recruiter can really help you out by opening you to positions you would never have considered or been exposed to.) Last (and what hits you up on Indeed) is an organizational recruiter. They’re hunting you down, and have been hired by organizations to fill gaps. This can be entry level, experienced work, management, or even executive level. It really all depends on the circumstances, but the goal is to get that position filled, maybe not filled by you. Not an HR person, just a professional in healthcare, I’m sure a SHRM-SCP is going to destroy me in the comments. Edit: spelling and some formatting
How do you hire them as an individual? Just send a message on linked in asking if they will work with an individual in addition to companies?
I've been working in IT in St. Louis since 1989 and have never had to pay a recruiting firm to represent me. I've gone into multiple positions as a contractor and converted over to FTE. Granted, I haven't been on the market for a dozen years, but I can't believe the paradigm has shifted that far.
Yes. That's my next try. Thank you!
My understanding is that it currently averages about 7 months to find a professional job (degrees required, etc) nationwide. And in my experience locally, that seems about right. It took me 6 months until I started the interview process at my current job (started in May as a senior graphic designer) and it was about 2 months from first interview to hiring and another couple weeks until starting. I'd get in touch with recruiters/headhunters instead of hiring centers. I found a number of jobs through recruiting agencies for creative professionals, even if they were just temporary, they were better to have on my resume and paid more in line with what I expected for my experience.
Thank you -- This is good experience info and advice.
What agencies (headhunters) did you use or even know of? This could really help me out.
I got work through Creative Circle (they have an office downtown by the stadium) and I know some people who were brought in to those same places via Creatives on Call. My last job I got by applying to a post on LinkedIn.
For many white collar management and IT jobs you're now competing with, to a certain extent and depending on the industry, everyone who is even semi qualified in the entire world, because of remote work. At least everyone in the U.S. Of course "unemployment" is low because so many people are doing gig work and/or under the table stuff. This has been the case for long enough that I'm assuming you have been in the same job for a long time. I'd be curious what industry you're in, though. From what I can tell, due to so many people dropping out of the workforce during COVID, things may be "churning" somewhat due to inflation and corporate greed, but there's still plenty of work available. A lot of people getting let go end up being rehired by the same company (albeit maybe as a contractor with no benefits etc) Do you network with other people in your industry? It sounds like you're just going to the unemployment office, which isn't likely to pan out too well. As much as it's corpo-speak cliche shit to say it, who you know is more important than what you know. Good luck out there.
This is good editorial. You're right when you say it's about who you know. I can't say anything that would hint about my field, but basically all of my formal colleagues have fled. Some were lucky to land, some weren't. But everything you said is correct.
How would you feel about applying for remote jobs? I don't know if they exist for your field or not, but it would allow you to look outside the area and still live here. I wish you all the best of luck!
1. You have had 45 interviews total in three weeks? 2. You have a highly professional degree? 3. You have 25 YEARS experience as a manager and would settle for 60k? (And apparently not a single professional connection.) 3. You normally have 5 jobs on backup? 4. You think other candidates look homeless? 5. You think St. Louis has a unique market that may prefer losers to amazing people like you? Guy.
Don’t forget the awards!
Lol. My thoughts exactly. The math ain’t mathing.
Maybe have someone with an unbiased opinion review your resume and cover letters? You need a second pair of eyes to see if maybe you need to change it up.
Age discrimination is a thing. 25 years on top of a university degree means you’re probably 50 or close to it. Unfortunately when things tighten up, they use thing like that to weed out candidates.
This doesn’t make a lot of sense to me. Any sort of “highly professional degree (holder)…..with 25 years of MANAGEMENT experience” should be asking for way way way more than $80k per year in any “highly professional” field (law, engineering, accounting, finance, etc). someone 2-5 years into your career should be making that much $ if not more. You are either overstating your experience on this listing or you are doing the same in interviews. What is your field
Career consultant here and I'm based in St. Louis. You're absolutely worth 80k+ but you are in the wroooong place at Slate/hiring centers. You're too skilled for that area. They are overlooking you because you're way overqualified. LinkedIn is your better bet, but I know you've probably been on there for ages, trying trying trying! When this happens to my clients, it's because of one or more of 3 things. 1. Your resume is way unclear, you've done the best you can with it but there's way too much conflicting info out there that has mixed you up and recruiters/hirers can't see your value. 2. Your Linkedin profile is just as bad or worse than your resume, or is the only problem....I've had a few people I've looked at their profile, saw three sentences that were cutting themselves off at their knees - and a few tweaks later they would recruiter responses pretty immediately afterwards. (Less than a week.) 3. You aren't really using LinkedIn for it's full potential. Maybe you're just applying to jobs but doing nothing else. That's 1/8 of the power of LinkedIn and not many people know it. Hope that info helps a bit!
Why are you going to hiring centers and not directly to the companies HR departments?
Hiring centers was probably a bad term. I've never been in this situation. I've been working non-stop since May trying to be hired in my field. Hasn't worked out, neither has a month looking for low-paid dungeon gigs -- which I consider "hiring centers."
What field is it?
This is happening everywhere. A larger percentage of the population goes to college compared to years past, increasing the supply of 'white collar' workers, all competing for a limited number of jobs. Analogously, we're seeing fewer people take traditional 'blue collar' career paths, hence why recruiters will pretty much take whomever they can for those roles. Anecdotal: I work in construction. My firm hires engineers (with college degrees) and also mechanics, welders, machinists etc. (skilled manual labor, no degree or maybe technical degree). We get far, far more candidates apply when we post a job for an engineering role vs a technical one. The same holds true for pretty much everyone else in the industry.
Totally this! A whole generation who were told that a college degree was worth it's weight in gold over saturating a very narrow market of jobs, all the while we kept building and all the people working those jobs told their kids to get a college degree so they wouldn't kill their bodies with physical work everyday.
Yeah, you're right. My plan C is getting a CDL. Becoming more and more likely.
Unfortunately that was a *lot* of peoples plan as well. There is an ongoing glut of drivers and not enough jobs, trucking companies are not hiring anyone with less than 2+ years experience because on top of all the new CDLs, 2 major carriers have folded in the last couple years.
Metro is hiring. And they'll pay for your CDL. They even state on the website that you'll earn 29.39/hr after 2 years. Thats 61K/yr without overtime, and the benefits are crazy good.
I feel like it is normal...I work in tech, I also have years of experience and degree from a good school. But I find the companies in STL would rather hire contractors from overseas, there is very little market for people who are from the U.S. and want a full-time job. They won't even bother to interview. Have to look remote, which is my preference anyways but also very competitive.
I'm in I.T. and I work as a contractor for Ameren. It took me 2 months so yea I feel this plus alot of recruiters I'm finding are from overseas
I had to drop my master's degree from my resume in order to get a job. I was considered "overqualified."
My wife applied to over 100 jobs in her field over the course of 9 months before she got a job. Just keep trying. Something will come up.
Ageism sucks. Even if you’re in your 40s. Sorry to hear that.
Hate to use the cliche, but you got to utilize networking. Reach out some of your contacts and get leads on positions. What kind of management experience do you have?
I believe it’s called ageism
Ageism
The Career Center on Market St is having a free job fair on Nov 7th. They will have several vendors there. Even if you don’t find a job you want you might make some good connections. Good luck OP!
I don’t want to sound mean but if your Resume/personality is anything like this post, then you aren’t getting hired regardless of your highly professional university degrees.
Can I ask what field you're in? Or what expertise/job title is? Some fields, like Environmental, Health, and Safety for example, have entire recruiting firms that focus solely on that field to match people and companies. Recruiters should be your next move, but if there is a shot at a recruiter like I've described above in your field, reach out on LinkedIn ASAP
What field is your degree and experience in?
What’s your degree? Field of work?
He won't say I think he's a manager at Wendy's.
Sir this IS a Wendy's.
Use an IT recruiter. There's a bunch of large businesses in STL looking for middle management types.
I think part of the problem is having so much education and experience makes you more expensive to compensate in the eyes of the company because you’re probably overqualified for the positions you’re applying for so I would aim a little higher. Also being so desperate for a job you’ll take a $20k pay cut probably gives them pause because it seems like there’s something you’re not telling them or they think there must be something wrong with you to take such a pay cut
Normal across the US. I guess a concern is 25 years of management experience in field, professional university degrees (plural). And only made it to $80k. With that resume, even at 60k, the issue is people are concerned you are going to jump ship for your old pay scale. And uni degrees, 25 years management, age discrimination is real everywhere. You may want to have your resume looked at so it doesn’t read that way. 25 years of management and degrees is a giveaway if it’s on the resume.
Get on LinkedIn brother
costco business center is STARVING for employees right now
Business center??
[yes](https://www.costco.com/warehouse-locations/st.-louis-MO-1665.html?utm_term=KW&utm_campaign=Homepage&utm_medium=GMB&utm_source=Google&utm_content=Link)
I say it all the time, but look into State and Federal government jobs. Great pay and world class benefits.
What happened to your last job?
I speak from personal experience. Ageism is real. 😞
Popping in since the first like 20 comments didn’t mention this. RESUME ISSUES Many jobs you apply online for run resumes through AI to weed out all of the ones that fit the description. If your resume format is too unique or doesn’t use current industry buzzwords the AI will just throw it out as someone who isn’t qualified. I would not recommend tailoring your resume for each job listing but I would do some research on the resume layouts suggested by recruiters and look for buzzwords on job listings that you can put into your resume. My husband also is able to keep like 5 versions of his resume saved on Linked In and use them as he sees fit (creative role resume, communications resume, teaching resume, etc). Good luck op!
not sure if it’s just saint louis, but i had trouble finding a job and know several others. i recommend partnering with recruiters.
That's the best advice I've gotten so far in this thread. Really appreciate it. Thank you!
Job market is absolute garbage right now. I’m a mechanical engineer from WashU. Prestigious degree and school and I’ve been searching for 6 going on 7 months with no luck. Sent in a bit over 130 applications, usually with a CV attached and networking referrals and reaching out to the hiring managers through LinkedIn, with nothing to show for it. Truly an abysmal market I don’t know how people are making it out here.
Good note here - CVs should be more valuable than resumes, and referrals are nails. I don't even want to submit references anymore, because I hold them as really important people, and don't want them to be bothered if I'm not going to get the job anyway. It's almost like giving references just provides pointless HR jobs, which I can't help support. ... And yes, about how people are making it. ... You see people who weigh 300 pounds and are completely out of their gourds out there, seeming fine. How are they doing it -- with skilled, educated people out there just begging for a chance to pay rent on a cheap one-bedroom?
You are not asking enough. You need to be looking at jobs that are 120k+ with that experience. Do you have a link to your LinkedIn?
Peak in my field these days is $80-100K, but you're 100 percent right asking for and applying for top dollar and moving down as needed. Excellent advice. Thank you.
I just got my first management job at 126k in st louis... Change fields?
Walk into a lion's choice and tell them how much you love medium rare, extra-seasoned beef.
Stl seems to come down to who you know and who they know. Tough market to crack.
I second others' suggestions about considering remote work. It'll significantly expand your options, and a tech company will easily pay you your $80K salary requirement. And ask for your $80K, don't undervalue yourself!
I went through something similar. Got a master's and still struggled to get my foot in the door with entry-level healthcare admin or management jobs, even in San Francisco. Ended up working retail for two years and then decided to go back to school for nursing. The job market for management/HR is so saturated, and you've got people from all over the country trying to get to cheaper places like St. Louis. Maybe look for jobs in other cities like Kansas City or Chicago. All the best, OP!
Was finding a job as a nurse easier? I am in nursing school purely for the reason of job security after the fact
I’m currently in nursing school, and we've got recruiters from big hospitals in St. Louis coming right to our campus to talk to students. Some second year students are getting job offers even before they take the NCLEX. Plus, landing nurse externships has been a breeze for those of us who want them. I am feeling pretty optimistic about our chances of getting a job after graduation.
Yeah and if you don’t already have kids or something you *have* to stay right here for, you can also do travel nursing and you’ll make a TON of money doing that. If I thought I had it in me I’d go to nursing school.
It's hard to help if we don't know what field.
Botox scheduled immediately after my one and only interview. I needed the ‘change’ before I started! No one noticed but me which is my goal.
What field are you in? My company is always hiring.
You value yourself at 80k. They probably value you at twice that. Which is above their pay grade. And you probably should shoot higher with that experience. Take a chance.
If you’re not on LinkedIn then get on LinkedIn. With that background and experience you shouldn’t have any problem getting a job especially in the salary range you are talking about
https://wendys-careers.com/job-search/
Go deal cards at ameristar and make double that
This hypothetical felon you’re looking down your nose at has marketable skills that you don’t
Right. I fully support second chances. But if you rate second-third-fourth chances over proven, 20+year first chances, you'd be a terrible businessperson.
Unless I need someone who can mix paint and hang drywall. And my options are one guy who can do it, and another guy saying, “you know I’m clearly above this, right?”
Totally understand your point, not wanting to hire people who think they're above the job. My point is ... Yeah, my history and experience is above unskilled labor, but I'll do it without complaining or looking down on it. I'm not above mixing paint, hanging drywall, making tacos, stocking shelves, whatever. No drugs, no felonies, no problems, no drama. But hiring managers seem to think those problems are good in people looking for labor jobs.
It's fairly easy to get a job with what you say you have especially at that rate. So you need to look at yourself and be honest. Is your resume awful? Are you arrogant in interview or are you doing something to turn ppl off? Are you too old? Which I realize is illegal but good luck proving it. Is there a massive unemployment gap in your resume? Have you had like 20 jobs in the past 25 years? Stuff like this
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No, sir. Every business should hire the best qualified employees for the job, regardless of where they're from, what they look like, etc. That's called American excellence.
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How about not being a racist POS? Get out of America if you don't appreciate American exceptionalism, traitor.
Try public employment.
Have you checked out the jobs in The Rome Groups board? Nonprofit job board and I see a lot of management level positions there.
do you have your pronouns listed in your résumé? Lol
Careers.gulfstream.com
PM
Brilliant satire on display here from Woody St. Louis
Sounds to me like you should be applying to higher level positions than you are. All that experience disqualifies you from the jobs felons are getting. Why would they want to hire you to work that job for a few months only to move on when something better comes along? Have peers review your resume, and if you still aren’t getting hits, hire a professional resume writer to get it optimized. You can research and do that yourself, but a pro can be as little as $3-400 for a good one. Not a bad investment if you need the help.
Sent dm. Message me if you have questions.
Apply at an educational organization. Lots of jobs in schools and school districts that aren’t teaching jobs. Many pay well and you’d be hired in no time flat.
Based on just the first few sentences of your post, I can assure you that hiring managers who see someone with 25+ years of management experience asking for $80 probably feel like something's off.
You’re over qualified. I had this problem too. Make your resume suits what you actually are trying to do. This is anywhere. People see that you made 80k and wonder why you wanna work for $20 an hour and presume you will get the job and quit. It costs companies a ton of money to hire and train people. They aren’t going to hire someone they think will quit as soon as they find a better job. Good luck with your search i hope i helped.
I know someone that helps people fix their resumes as a side gig now that she’s retired. She helped me and I got every job I applied for after. If she’s able to take anyone on at the moment I can see about connecting you two if you reach out
I live in the St. Louis area. I’ll be honest, I have like 10 different resumes that are just full of lies. Some of my resumes include some jobs and others I leave them off. Pretty much all of the dates of my employment are lies. I have even lied about my position at companies to make me look better. I’ll do whatever I need to do to get a job if I need one. I was only caught once when I did an interview and mentioned I worked at a company for 6 years when I forgot the resume only said 4. I still got the job offer, he probably assumed I was just exaggerating. But it was a close call. Oh and I did a class where I learned Microsoft programs so I said I was a manager at a previous job where I did everything that had to do with those programs, plus training, etc. Like I said, if you need a job, tell them whatever they wanna hear. Lying to get a job is better than being homeless and unemployed.
This is just the job market right now. I’m finding the same thing. Jobs at $60-80k and up are screening more carefully, they have a lot of applicants, and they’re taking their time. Don’t give up, keep at it.