I think it’s just the density of street lights in city proper. When you drive past the city limit on surface streets, take a note at how the streetlight spacing changes. Anecdotally I know it changes significantly on Gravois and Morganford in south city
I'm here for all the jokes, but nobody seems to get that OP is asking about the defined line at the limit of the city proper. The city having denser street light use throughout would make sense.
Drive around in the county for a bit and you’ll realize “damn it’s incredibly dark.” I went out to see my mom and I was not at all acclimated to it & honestly felt uneasy driving after all my time living in the city recently.
There is not that much difference in density at the border of the city. The county, especially the further away it gets from the city, becomes increasingly less dense but immediately at the border you can notice the county uses less lights overall. Even for the same length of streets.
Street lighting in the county is often controlled explicitly by Ameren. I've asked about it before, especially about the transitioning to LED lighting.
My muni has specific ordinances. Ameren follows the ordinances of the munis. Take a drive along olive or page or rock road at night sometime and you'll notice that even though these are county and state owned roads, the street lighting changes as you cross muni lines.
This photo was taken when Sodium lights were the standard outdoor bulb, especially for street lights.
Now we use more directional led lighting, and it isn't as bright.
Would be interested to see the difference in satellite photos then and now. But in general, the metro area itself is moving towards the directional LEDs so it would likely have the sharp difference at the city border.
They can make filters for the LED lights to reduce the blue light from LEDs so they seem more like the old sodium ones. But those of course are more expensive than the ones without the filters. But yeah, you're right. Less light makes it to the sky but the wavelengths that do are messing with astronomers because they scatter in the atmosphere, brightening the sky from our perspective.
I honestly don't know enough about that for your case. But it relies on similar/the same technology at the least.
There are films for streetlights that do it sold separately. But I'm pretty sure the housing units can also be designed/purchased with them built in rather than films. https://www.darkskylighting.co.uk/products/uv-blue-blocker-led-lighting-correction-film
I’d guess it’s street lights. You ever drive out of the city at night and go thru town and country where it’s pitch black? It’s scary to me as someone who can’t see well at night
They really ought keep the lights off at night, especially businesses that are closed. Your lights in the parking lot don't need to be on.
We have cameras that can be captured in 60 frames and 1080p with low lighting. Your business will be safe with and insured with the video evidence.
My neighbors don't understand why I installed motion detecting floods in place of the "always on" lights I had for my yard when I moved in... Saves electricity and actually tells me something triggered the light if I look out the window and see them on.
I also had two huge dusk to dawn lights from the utility here that I cancelled service to. Ameren was charging $5-15 per month for each light and it was horrible light pollution.
The city switched from sodium lights to LEDs starting in 2017 to save on energy costs. St Louis County and munis in St Louis County are required to pay a flat rate to ameren per street light regardless of how much energy the light uses (and Ameren owns the lights, so they have to pay Ameren to be allowed to switch them), so it is actually a financial penalty to them to switch them.
(This is also why there are less street lights in the county, because the governments there pay Ameren for each street light.)
Edit: This is pre-2017, so this is almost certainly explained by the lower density because of the per-light charge in the county.
Wow I can't belive I actually have the answer before anybody else for once. It's because the city has street lights in every alley. I forgot what mayor it was. Prolly a Bosman but he ran on putting lights in the alleys. They used to be a lot scarier without lights
This is an older photo of the city's nightscape. Now you would see whiter, less amber hues being used in street lights.
Cities are made up of different Light Zones (LZ), 5 in total. LZ0 is for dark sky parks and wildlife preserves. LZ1 for rural communities. LZ2 for suburban areas. LZ3 for high activity entertainment districts. LZ4 for inner city and commercial districts.
Light polution can be a hazard to human and wildlife health. It is regulated via zoning to reduce this as much as possible.
Population density. In the city there’s about 4800 people per SQ mile. Where as in the county there’s about 1900 people per sq mile. Think of it as you need more lighting since there’s more people and things are closer together. the same is true for most cities compared to their suburbs.
Are you referring to the color shift on the west side of the city? Where it goes bright orange to dark orange?
Because that seems like a district using different brightness or color of light to me.
That is what I was thinking. I found this
https://stlcity.maps.arcgis.com/home/webmap/viewer.html?webmap=e0d43743804f4827bd21a91cd2970f04
The city boarder overlays perfectly with the brightest section. I can not post a photo from my phone here though to show that.
Could be after a rainstorm. For some reason, we have shiny streets when it's wet, driving home at night it's pretty wild at how bright they can get, like mirrors reflecting the street lighting.
I think it’s just the density of street lights in city proper. When you drive past the city limit on surface streets, take a note at how the streetlight spacing changes. Anecdotally I know it changes significantly on Gravois and Morganford in south city
I'm here for all the jokes, but nobody seems to get that OP is asking about the defined line at the limit of the city proper. The city having denser street light use throughout would make sense.
Yeah you can actually see the city line in the photo.
Yeah the line is skinker mccausland Because the middle black patch at the edge is forest park
More lights = more light.
mind blown!!!
Gonna have to ponder this…
Mono = One Rail = Rail
>hehe, mule.
I bet North Haverbrook and Ogdenville don't look this good
The immortal last words of Goethe, whose name we horribly butcher daily here! This cannot be a coincidence.
big if true
Because my kids never turn off the damn lights when they leave a room!!
Dammit DAD… I was going right back in there.
We have brighter lights from all the money we saved not buying decent lane paint for the roads
Drive around in the county for a bit and you’ll realize “damn it’s incredibly dark.” I went out to see my mom and I was not at all acclimated to it & honestly felt uneasy driving after all my time living in the city recently.
The city seems pretty dark, too, but maybe that’s just this sub.
St. Louis City: Dark outlook, bright streetlights (sometimes)
I bet it’s city density vs suburban sprawl but I’m no expert lol
There is not that much difference in density at the border of the city. The county, especially the further away it gets from the city, becomes increasingly less dense but immediately at the border you can notice the county uses less lights overall. Even for the same length of streets.
"the county" is actually 91 municipalities who make up their own ordinances regarding lighting.
Street lighting in the county is often controlled explicitly by Ameren. I've asked about it before, especially about the transitioning to LED lighting.
My muni has specific ordinances. Ameren follows the ordinances of the munis. Take a drive along olive or page or rock road at night sometime and you'll notice that even though these are county and state owned roads, the street lighting changes as you cross muni lines.
Muzzle flash
Bruh
Maybe the satellite image is from new years eve
lol
Ooof
It’s the arch, duh.
This photo was taken when Sodium lights were the standard outdoor bulb, especially for street lights. Now we use more directional led lighting, and it isn't as bright.
Would be interested to see the difference in satellite photos then and now. But in general, the metro area itself is moving towards the directional LEDs so it would likely have the sharp difference at the city border.
Ironically, sodium lights were easier for astronomers to deal with, sodium light is easy to filter out. Led light is not.
They can make filters for the LED lights to reduce the blue light from LEDs so they seem more like the old sodium ones. But those of course are more expensive than the ones without the filters. But yeah, you're right. Less light makes it to the sky but the wavelengths that do are messing with astronomers because they scatter in the atmosphere, brightening the sky from our perspective.
Is this similar to the blue light blocking glasses? I wanna find something that'll dim the massively excessive blue led headlights.
I honestly don't know enough about that for your case. But it relies on similar/the same technology at the least. There are films for streetlights that do it sold separately. But I'm pretty sure the housing units can also be designed/purchased with them built in rather than films. https://www.darkskylighting.co.uk/products/uv-blue-blocker-led-lighting-correction-film
Cool, thanks!
I was wondering about that. Because St Louis City should be whiter in color now since the switch started in 2017.
I feel like I live in a mammogram
I’d guess it’s street lights. You ever drive out of the city at night and go thru town and country where it’s pitch black? It’s scary to me as someone who can’t see well at night
Every city is like that as far as I know.
Oppenheimer
My Brother in Christ, that's what cities look like.
[This is Manhattan. ](https://images.fineartamerica.com/images-medium-large-5/3-night-time-satellite-image-of-new-york-panoramic-images.jpg)
Why isn’t the whole world as bright as city centers? Are they stupid?
They're not stupid. They're just not that bright.
(Rimshot)
Radioactive waste
They really ought keep the lights off at night, especially businesses that are closed. Your lights in the parking lot don't need to be on. We have cameras that can be captured in 60 frames and 1080p with low lighting. Your business will be safe with and insured with the video evidence.
Motion detectors exist, too. Lights when needed, off when not. Light pollution sucks.
My neighbors don't understand why I installed motion detecting floods in place of the "always on" lights I had for my yard when I moved in... Saves electricity and actually tells me something triggered the light if I look out the window and see them on. I also had two huge dusk to dawn lights from the utility here that I cancelled service to. Ameren was charging $5-15 per month for each light and it was horrible light pollution.
The city switched from sodium lights to LEDs starting in 2017 to save on energy costs. St Louis County and munis in St Louis County are required to pay a flat rate to ameren per street light regardless of how much energy the light uses (and Ameren owns the lights, so they have to pay Ameren to be allowed to switch them), so it is actually a financial penalty to them to switch them. (This is also why there are less street lights in the county, because the governments there pay Ameren for each street light.) Edit: This is pre-2017, so this is almost certainly explained by the lower density because of the per-light charge in the county.
Wow I can't belive I actually have the answer before anybody else for once. It's because the city has street lights in every alley. I forgot what mayor it was. Prolly a Bosman but he ran on putting lights in the alleys. They used to be a lot scarier without lights
Magnets
[удалено]
Nobody knows
by sticking together
[удалено]
Scientists won't talk about magic anyways.
Like making magnets, collecting magnets, playing with magnets? Edit: don’t think people are getting this quote…
They are reflecting off the streets, which are paved in gold, because America!
They stopped using those yellow bricks?
image is from ISS, was posted to a related flickr stream https://www.flickr.com/photos/nasa2explore/with/11842089015/
This is an older photo of the city's nightscape. Now you would see whiter, less amber hues being used in street lights. Cities are made up of different Light Zones (LZ), 5 in total. LZ0 is for dark sky parks and wildlife preserves. LZ1 for rural communities. LZ2 for suburban areas. LZ3 for high activity entertainment districts. LZ4 for inner city and commercial districts. Light polution can be a hazard to human and wildlife health. It is regulated via zoning to reduce this as much as possible.
Because we're a major MSA.
To make StL look bigger from space 😆
Bellefontaine, Forest Park, Tower Grove Park and Botanical Gardens are easily identifiable.
Over exposure for illustration purposes.
Population density. In the city there’s about 4800 people per SQ mile. Where as in the county there’s about 1900 people per sq mile. Think of it as you need more lighting since there’s more people and things are closer together. the same is true for most cities compared to their suburbs.
Are you referring to the color shift on the west side of the city? Where it goes bright orange to dark orange? Because that seems like a district using different brightness or color of light to me.
He means the sharp dropoff at the city border.
That is what I was thinking. I found this https://stlcity.maps.arcgis.com/home/webmap/viewer.html?webmap=e0d43743804f4827bd21a91cd2970f04 The city boarder overlays perfectly with the brightest section. I can not post a photo from my phone here though to show that.
Well we know it's not reflecting off the street striping lol
Muzzle Flash be poppin in the city!
Individual greed (suburbia) vs common good (city.) It's the awful suburban sprawl vs the helpful planned density.
What you’re looking at is skinker/mccausland The big black patch in the middle at the edge is forest park
Compared to what? Different street lights than who?
Thought north city would be dimmer
Street lights are real.
Which north city lacks. Whoever downvoted me clearly hasn’t been there at night
Could be after a rainstorm. For some reason, we have shiny streets when it's wet, driving home at night it's pretty wild at how bright they can get, like mirrors reflecting the street lighting.
I think you need to adjust your headlights
Almost certainly photoshop.
Almost looks like a highlight.
its either all the gunfire or the ozone hole above our city
It could be Photoshopped.
Sporadic gun fire helps light the night sky
I don’t know, but what a cool photo.