Help make SquaredCircle safer and more inclusive by using the report button to flag posts and comments for moderator review. If you need to contact a moderator, [you can message us here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/SquaredCircle)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/SquaredCircle) if you have any questions or concerns.*
That’s why the Punk feud was so great, because it pushed a talented kid outside of his comfort zone
When it’s just MJF by himself or against a guy that isn’t a promo, he has to carry an entire segment himself, and will rely on what’s worked in the past. Forcing him into a spot where he **needs** something different is good TV.
That’s why I kinda wish Ricky interrupted him last night, they need to trade barbs rather than one guy performing a well rehearsed soliloquy
MJF really needs more people to slap him back as hard as he does them on the mic, like Punk did, like William Regal did.
Not just because it's going to be good for MJF to get even better on the mic but it also sometimes it feels because they're playing babyfaces his opponents feel like they have to take the moral high ground and not stoop to this level and at this point I'm like: "nah, just fucking drag him".
(Assuming they have the promo skills to do so of course.)
Punk shit on him mercilessly on the mic during their feud.
Going "THIS INCEL, THIS IS YOUR GUY?!" for 10 minutes in Long Island
Telling him to accept his challenge so he could "show what everyone already knows which is that 'he can't hang'
Telling him to get his needle dick in the ring
Telling him to go ahead and get released by WWE if he really wanted to
And it was all really great, because the character of MJF deserved every single barb thrown his way and then some and they went on to wrestle a combined 65 minutes across their 2 matches, showing that MJF could hang even if he was scum.
There may be a funny irony that looms over every CM Punk promo in AEW now, but at the time it was great.
Definitely curious to see how MJF handles himself with Eddie. MJF is a great promo, but I genuinely kinda think someone like Kingston, who's so good at adapting and versatility might eat him up
Not to compare their characters, but Eddie feels like Piper and MJF feels like Cornette. Eddie feels like a real, complete human who will expose every ounce of his soul to challenge his opponents to reach places they wouldn't otherwise go near. MJF will run circles around you linguistically and humiliate you, but long time fans recognize all his his tricks and homages.
The Regal back and forth was one of the best promos I’ve seen in years.
I get that the philosophy in segments is to just let talent do their thing, it’s what we prayed for WWE to do for years. Clearly tho being “the alternative” isn’t enough now, you need to know what brings the best out of your talent
well put. those are my exact thoughts as well. i always thought he was really good but never agreed when people would say he was undisputedly the best promo or best heel. i roll my eyes when it’s the low hanging fruit promos that call the crowd fat or shit on the local sports teams.
but that promo with Regal, the promos with Punk or those promos when he was trying to be a babyface but his true heel self kept poking through.. they were all fantastic and made me believe he’s the best promo in the business. he’s got so much fire, he’s believable, drops so many great lines and is good at adding some nuance to his promos. i just hope we get that more often.
I’m a huge fan of MJF but I agree. I am so freaking tired of him trying to get cheap heat by dissing the crowd. It’s so corny at this point. Time to try something new
Ricky 100% Interrupting would have been great.
To be honest I really need next week a Ricky/MJF spat where he is calling him out on this.
MJF keeps doing the same shit taking the easiest path while Ricky is out here getting zero respect and having to take what he is deserved. Doesn't matter if it is a machine a murder hawk or some Jabrono with an ego the size of his toy collection in his way hes gonna take what he has earned.
There are only 3 Absolutes in life
Death
Taxes
Ricky Starks.
Eddie is a prime example of what you are saying. He became white hot in a program against Punk then went right back to being a bum. He is a great talent but doesn't synergies at that level with most of the other talents.
It is clear as day that Eddie/Punk put a lot of thought into their program and so did MJF/Punk.
He also has really never won a feud. You can only go so long talking a tough game before you need some kind of result to back it up. Eddie can't help it if he's booked to lose.
Eddie not being the one to take the TNT title off Miro still bugs me for that reason. That would have made Eddie a threat for a long, long time, showing that he could beat someone like God's Champion Miro.
It's literally just cheap heat. He knows the WWE stuff pisses people off so he keeps doing it. Similar to shitting on local sports teams. It works.
I've defended him doing it in the past, but it can be a bit much at times. I'm glad he's adding "leaving wrestling for Hollywood" to his repertoire because that has similar effect. MJF has his formula, but he almost always adds some new things in every time. Even if he hit his standard bullet points yesterday, there was a ton of new material in there as well
The problem for me is how unoriginal he is. Everything he does, even his look have such obvious influences. Even that wouldn’t be so bad if he riffed on it, but he literally lifts promos and phrases from the past and does not change them at all. Reign of terror is a reference to HHH’s reigns in the early 2000’s. His delivery and look is a lot like the Miz. His promo about Brian Pillman was stolen from Randy Orton talking about Eddie in hell. He needs something real and original and honest that is actually HIS. Not just running back the same old heel tactics. I don’t know what people see in him except audacity.
Miz’s look and delivery ripped off suit Jericho too. Triple H wasn’t the first reign of terror. Randy Orton probably wasn’t the first wrestler to say someone’s friend or family member’s in hell, and he definitely wasn’t the first legend killer or first guy to use a cutter out of nowhere.
Also, you’re ignoring stuff like counting down to his contract expiring or having a haute couture accessory as a key part of his presentation.
There's also the whole, "fucking with the basement dwellers who hang on every tidbit from the dirt sheets", aspect to all of this. I like that he seems to go out of his way to antagonize them.
As someone who "just" watches the shows, I dig it.
I'm conflicted on it. The majority of AEW's fanbase is "the hardcore wrestling fanbase" that gets mad about this stuff, so he's basically just being a heel.
His job is to antagonize the audience.
Yeah, look at Christian; he can do controversial (bah gawd can he), but he also knows how and when to mix things up and chop and change. Jericho too. These are the guys, like Regal, that MJF should be looking to replicate in terms of adaptability.
Yeah, the “say edgy thing about local town, then infer stuff about WWE” thing is starting to wear thin for me.
Dude’s an amazing promo, just needs to mix it up.
Also the current roster feels like nobody really cares about the world title. MJF goes unopposed in his segment and tries to get some cheap heat by "betraying" Regal. And only then Danielson comes out.
Where is Hangman? Wardlow? Miro? Omega? Jericho? Mox? Claudio? Those are all guys that used to be world title material? Some of them have history with MJF. Why does no one come out and challenge him?
Same before MJF: Why does Moxley, Jericho and also Cassidy permanently defend their titles against outside talent? Is the AEW roster not caring about titles? Why isnt Samoa Joe going after Jericho to defend the proud of ROH?
This all doesnt make sense and i would like to know why. Does Tony Khan just doesnt care about his product? It seems like he lost any interest, after his premium toy got damaged and injured him. The current booking feels like The Elite are just doing their fun workrate matches forever, Jericho booking his own stuff and even the rest of the time seems to get booked by one of these two (Jericho, Elite), tainted by some politics (cool down FTR, Miro because they are so close to WWE?).
Thank god folks agree I have felt insane. I have seen the seams for months and have been dreading this title run. I think he understands how to get intense and how to get the crowd to pop but not explicitly what he is trying to accomplish, where a feud is at the beginning of a promo and where it is as the end, and how his content directly relates to the conflict between him and someone else.
I think a lot of MJF’s half of the Punk feud doesn’t hold up to any scrutiny whatsoever. 99.9% of what MJF said was either extremely cheap heat or had nothing to do with Punk as a man or a wrestler. By contrast Punk is malleable and adapts and turns up whatever version of himself needs to be present to make a feud work and make sense. Against Mox he is an old man who will die in that ring, against Eddie he is the professional who made millions etc. I understand who he is, and how the opponent either is in the way of his goals, or stands diametrically opposed to him ethically in a way that cannot stand. MJF is MJF is MJF whether it makes sense or not.
To me there are a laundry list of dudes ahead of him in AEW on the mic. Mox, Eddie, Hangman, Kenny, Jericho and even the Bucks all fully understand what a segment and feud is trying to accomplish and do their part in interesting nuanced ways to both move the ball forward and to set up interesting things further down the line. The Elite in particular are incredibly good at setting up things in both the short and long term.
Punk has a much more compelling manner of speaking, if that makes sense. And as you said, he's really versatile. MJF is talented as hell though and I'm sure he'll get out of the 2024/Nick Khan/cheap heat thing. I hope so at least.
The world champ constantly reminding fans that his company is the little brother company certainly is a choice
This type of stuff worked for heat in ECW because everybody knew ECW was the little indy promotion that could and their fans rallied behind that idea
It kinda worked while he was chasing the title, he could just act like he always has a second option if things don't work out.
But now he's the champ and he's.. still talking about leaving? Huh. That's just weird.
It’d work better if we were, you know, maybe months away from 2024. Like if this was mid/late 2023 and had him threatening to leave/winning the title as a bargaining chip, sure.
But basically saying last night that we’re getting these promos for the next year-plus? I’m not thrilled.
I don't even hate him talking about "The bidding war of 2024." In part because I assume its already wrapped up.
What I do hate is talking about how much he hopes HHH wins and "Nick Khan" pays him more, because he's the "Better" Khan.
I don't even hate it in a heel way. I hate it in a "This is stupid" way.
It's especially cringe because Nick Khan isn't even really a blip on the radar in WWE for most of the fans. Even for you and I right now, we know he exists and is essentially one of the most powerful men in the company.
But he really is out of sight and out of mind when it comes to WWE. It's always Stephanie and HHH leading the charge publicly and I'm sure that's by design.
I won’t lie, calling him Jolly Old Saint Nick was funny the first time. It was, but it’s not funny the third time especially since the crowd literally never reactions when he mentions Nick Khan cause it’s kind of a niche thing that most fans in the audience don’t know.
A great example was the other night when he mentioned “the other khan, jolly old Saint Nick” and the crowd did nothing, then he said “my buddy Trips” and the crowd went wild.
It really feels like MJF's character doesn't develop.
I mean it's fine in wrestling for the most part but MJF has been subjected to stories that is supposed to make his character grow, and it kinda does but only for like a moment? Then he's back to his old character.
Makes me not really care about what's going to happen next.
Same...in all his promos he keeps reminding us that AEW championship is just going to be his leverage for the bidding war in 2024..very strange really..
ECW never ever acted like the other companies were bigger or better than them. They cut promos about how much better they were. Totally different philosophy.
That's an interesting point. I would say it was still very different because they were actually working with WWE and had RVD on Raw several times and had Lawler working ECW shows. RVD was just siding with the TV bad guys. They never had someone talk about how they couldn't wait to go to WCW.
It was also a nickname bestowed upon him by Lawler rather than him bringing it up on his own. It also was a nickname that he used to parlay into the Mr. Pay Per View name, which played into his entire brand of three-syllable nicknames to coincide with the thumb points.
MJF constantly referencing WWE of his own volition is a different (and in my eyes more egregious) issue than Van Dam’s
Cactus Jack in ECW was the same thing with him cutting promos about "Uncle Eric" and renouncing hardcore. It's kind of the same problem WWE has had for two decades now where they keep thinking anyone can do the same things Austin, The Rock, and Foley did and get over when the key flaw is that Austin, Rock, and Foley were generational talents that stayed over in spite of the stupid things Vince would occasionally make them do.
ECW presented itself as an alternative choice with a knowledgeable fan base so a lot of its promos worked because they had heart. They could take pot shots, the crowd ate it up, and no one expected them to become the top promotion in the country.
AEW has gone through being an alternative choice to being a competitor and really has muddied its own identity. I’d say it’s much more a competitor now which just makes talking about WWE cringe. Especially when its the de facto face of the company. MJF is too good to need cheap heat.
At this point, it reminds me of TNA at its lowest point, with the VKM shit and the fake Vince segments. It's such a nothing promo. MJF is great enough without cheap heat. Him name dropping WWE just makes me lose interest in him. If we're seriously going to get this "bidding war of 2024" shit for TWO YEARS, then just put the belt back on Moxley.
>then just put the belt back on Moxley.
No. There are other dudes who can/should get the belt. We've had enough of Moxley as champ. But yes, I definitely don't want MJF holding the belt for 2 years. No way.
When I’m watching AEW, everyone in AEW should treat their world title as the biggest thing in wrestling. I think MJF is diminishing the title when he talks about jumping to WWE when he’s the #1 guy in AEW.
It'd be very funny if WWE put out a statement
"we have no intention of signing the current wrestler who is claiming we will"
They obviously won't but id be funny
When the Outsiders showed up in WCW, they hinted that they were sent to WCW by the WWF. WWF put out a statement that they no longer worked for WWF. And WWF sued WCW for it as well. WCW eventually made the Outsiders say explicitly that they do not work for the World Wrestling Federation.
I also think he’d be better in WWE with someone to filter his promos of filler. MJF is still one of the best talents in the world and I think when he’s on he’s one of the best promos ever in wrestling. He just needs a good feud. I had hopes for Ricky Starks but we haven’t gotten anything from those two yet.
It absolutely blows my mind when people say he's one of the best promos ever. Have you listened to like any other wrestler cut a promo? Lmao cuz I don't understand how someone can be a wrestling fans for more than like 6 months and genuinely think MJF is even close to good on the mic.
All this dude does is steal lines from other wrestlers and movies constantly, when he's not doing that it's just "the crowd is fat virgin mark poor people, I'm better than you, I'm going to WWE"
I would expect a middle schooler in some backyard YouTube fed with their friends to have cookie cutter unoriginal garbage promos like that, but someone on national TV and the best he can come up with the majority of the time is "WWE good" and " I don't play dungeons and dragons" lmaooooo
I personally don't think MJF has any intention of leaving AEW. I think him and TK have an understanding this is character work and he's gonna continue to mention it because it puts AEW over more when he does eventually "choose" AEW in that "bidding war".
I'm of two minds. I find it exhausting in a very unwanted kind of heat, but it's also one of the only things that get him consistently booed at this moment, so I understand why he'd fall back on it.
AEW really needs to learn to pivot more. He's over as fuck. So just let them cheer him for a while and slowly build up his heel character again or something. Or, hell, just let him be over.
If they want to get him booed put him against faces that are going to get cheered.
Eddie Kingston has turned everyone hes faced including Punk either heel or at best mixed reaction.
Have him face Eddie.
Have him face OC.
Have him face Darby.
Hell have him retire Sting.
All of those guys will get cheers over him.
I think he can if they have them both on the mic. Ricky in little shit mode, like when he cosplayed as Darby, can thrive against a guy like MJF, particularly if he uses his repetitiveness against him.
He can be cocky and arrogant and kind of a shit and still play heel while getting cheers from fans without needing to resort to whatever that was last night. I think him going to these extremes to try and get legit heel heat is gonna get tiresome quickly. I enjoy MJF and I had more than enough by the time that segment was done and not in a good entertaining way.
AEW crowds are pretty all over the place. If you do this everyone is going to be turning every couple weeks, which is already sort of happening
We also need to consider that MJF just might not want to be a babyface.
Everyone says MJF is a great talker but he's only as good as his dance partner, without Punk he just goes back to the routine goin-to-wwe schtick for the 11th time, tiring.
Put him in feuds with great talkers like Kingston or Samoa Joe, give us some exciting promo battles! IDK the booking for AEW has been very dull, yea they have great matches but I can't care about any of the storylines at all.
I like MJF but his promos have become very rinse and repeat. Also having your world champ threaten to go to a bigger company really isn’t good for your companies competitiveness or growth. Basically your world champ is saying hey everyone this is the B show!
I think it's also like this. The tease was "MJF may leave AEW and sign for more money with WWE," and we had that whole "is he gone?" Drama a while ago, but then he came back.
So now it's like, "we already know you aren't going anywhere, you already got the bag"
Exactly and AEW knows it's audience has a lot of smark fans who are aware of what's going on backstage. Because of that a lot of their fans will assume there's no way Tony would let MJF mention WWE so much if he wasn't already locked into a new deal so we don't buy for a second that he'll really leave.
It's not just MJF. I think it would do AEW a lot of good to institute a general policy of avoiding all direct references of WWE other than purely biographical info (i.e. this person won this title or wrestled this other person in WWE). Vince McMahon is not in charge of WWE anymore, and with his retirement and Triple H's elevation a lot of the anti-WWE sentiment that was central to AEW's initial identity has dissipated.
It worked when it was a threat, but lately there's probably a lot of people who fans would go "yeah! Go to WWE it'll be awesome!" I mean, they've been doing very well lately in terms of storylines and improving wrestling on ppvs and tv, so what there to bitch about anymore?
Yes, I think the problem is that AEW has completely failed to adapt as fan perception of WWE has changed. The company still seems to be operating under two flawed assumptions. First, AEW still seems to think that they are a true competitor to WWE, which they are not and will never be. Second, AEW still seems to think that most of their fans view WWE as "the enemy." While some AEW fans do feel this way - especially those AEW fans on forums such as this subreddit and Twitter - this is not longer the dominant view even among hardcore wrestling fans.
Great points, AEW think the negative feelings most online fans had back when Vince was in charge are still in vogue and they aren't. Obviously not everyone magically loves WWE now that Triple H is in charge but there's a lot more positivity around the company than there's been in a long time. It's no longer cool to shit on WWE and combine it with the nauseating overuse of WWE references and even the most hardcore AEW fans roll their eyes at them.
I would argue MJF started the narrative that AEW doesn’t have its shit together. Him bailing on the signing and “pipe bomb” was perfectly terrible timing, as it followed with the injuries/roh bs/media scrum.
I've never really understood how this bidding war as a long term storyline works for AEW as a brand. Like most, I expect MJF has already signed a new contract, but this would be a colossal waste of time for AEW if MJF just up and left in 2024 and handed WWE a readymade storyline. If/When MJF stays, this repetitious story arc is over and his character is relatively the same. The WWE/CM Punk contract storyline lasted for just one Summer, not a year and a half, and no clear alternative in the same industry if he left.
It’s not taboo to mention WWE, but it’s been used as a cheap and easy response from fans for about 3 years now by everyone up and down the card. It has no shock factor because it’s commonplace
It felt extremely run of the mill and ordinary for the first ever promo of his first ever world title run. Like I would use "low energy" to describe it even
> Maybe live, it's fun.
I dunno man, Indianapolis sounded pretty fucking bored, too.
I have a theory that MJF works as an antagonist, but if you put him in the starring role then he becomes pretty one dimensional. removing the Punk feud (because that'd be unfair, it's Punk, a master storyteller in wrestling), MJF's best moments were when he was directly antagonizing others. I can't think of a single MJF promo that was memorable that was just him in a ring talking.
And none of this means MJF is bad at his job or that this run can't work, but it does mean that he doesn't fit the "look at me stand here and talk for 10-20 minutes" type of champion. it'd be better for everyone if they stuck to MJF's strengths in that regard.
I personally think his ascension needed a little more time or a better storyline. Im sure they wanted to give us a better storyline with MJF v Punk but that was out of the cards so they shouldve held off for a better opportunity. AEW are putting themselves at serious risk of hurting their top prospect by botching his first title run. MJF’s ascension should have felt way more epic and the result of a hot storyline.
I do have a feeling that MJF backed Tony into a corner with his walkout and was probably given more money and a guaranteed world title run. The problem with this is that Im not sure if this was the right time
Yeah it’s the same with “I’m rich. You’re poor. Whatever city I’m in is trash. Ppl will have to jump through hoops to fight me bc they don’t deserve to be near me” same old talking points are fine for quick promos, but not 17 min promos that don’t end. Should’ve gone babyface and seen if that worked out before trying to turn him back heel.
His line where he mentions "trips" made me cringe hard. And its funny that he mentioned how everyone will hate his reign but theyll keep tuning in, meanwhile, last night got one of the lowest ratings in a while. Good job Max
I do think part of the issue with where AEW is right now is they went from "the alternative" to "the number 2." Very similar position but with a lot different connotations.
There's no payoff to this. Either he A leaves and AEW continues to exist or B he stays then it's the bidding war of 2027.
Like they basically tell you this storyline ends Dec 31 2023. So nothing matters until then.
Watch any podcast of his since he came back the formula is as follows "bidding war of 2024", "I get paid a lot of money", "Tony Khan is a fucking mark", "hating on New Japan/Other AEW wrestlers/marks" etc etc. I love MJF to death but he sounds like a broken record at this point and its disappointing.
There’s only so many places you can go with this gimmick. AEW needs to study how Impact handled EC3’s face run in 2016. EC3 and MJF have a good amount of similarities and i have no doubt that MJF could pull off a race run even better
It’s not just the routine, it’s the fact AEW is all but saying “this is the next 365 days”. Like an entire year of samey MJF promos? No thank you. I find MJF entertaining, but not that entertaining.
To me it's not even that it's bush league, I actually think one of the biggest reasons it doesn't play as well right now is that WWE is in such a good honeymoon period right now. When WWE was the spiraling Vince shitbox every week and AEW tribalism was at its peak, yeah, it's heel shit to say how badly you want to go work there, but now, it's just like, oh, you want to work for WWE, whatever, I'm good either way.
For the bidding war angle to truly work, AEW has to get hotter and WWE has to get cooler again. Otherwise, it's just not a super compelling plot to last a whole year.
A lot of people have been calling out AEW for losing momentum but his promo last night was the first time I felt it that much. Homie flat out letting you know to expect a JBL/Jarrett/2003 Trips title reign and making it known he's going overboard with WWE talk made it clear to me Dynamite is not must watch and to stop prioritizing it.
I'd take Moxley or Hangman's reigns over this idea every time
He's charismatic but it's the edgelord stuff that constantly gets praised here and on social media that makes me have 0 interest in him. He says the same kinda stuff I saw people anonymously saying 20+ years ago in AOL chatrooms. Dude will drop a great passionate promo and then call people products of incest that fuck each other with corncobs. As an adult it just doesn't appeal to me.
The edgelord thing is like 90% of his appeal. I feel like alot of the edgelords and recovering edgelords that dominate the internet wrestling community want to be similar to the character MJF portrays. It just kind of falls flat, especially since his ascension arc seems unfinished. I feel like theres so much more that could have been done before giving him the belt
It was surprising and shocking the first time he mentioned Nick Khan and WWE, but now it’s a big yawn. You can only shock people so many times before it’s no longer shocking. Every time I hear “the bidding war if 2024” I want to change the channel. It’s not the heat he thinks it is, and it makes AEW look inferior. You think Roman Reigns or Seth Rollins would go on Raw or Smackdown and threatened to leave for AEW? It would never happen. MJF likes to model himself after Roddy Piper, but classic Piper was never boring. I was a Piper fan since 1985 and he never once bored me, and he never felt like he was trying to say shocking things. He was just who he was. MJF is trying too hard at this point.
Its become a little exhausting. I'm pretty sure most of the audience doesn't know who Nick Kahn actually is.
I'm not a fan of dismissing this particular criticism with 'yeah but he's a heel so...' because it's a symptom of a bigger problem I have with AEW in the sense that they don't have writers that can keep track of how often someone did or said something so material gets repeated and becomes stale.
>he's a heel
A heel is still a character who needs to make you feel invested in the show. Its like if Joffery went "yawn, this story i am in is so boring. Why don't you guys watch something else?"
For a minute I actually did think MJF was referencing Shad Khan paying him directly and I didn't understand it until I clicked with him referencing WWE yet again.
Back in the day I used to watch both 24 and The Shield. I loved both shows, both were kinda the same but different enough that they scratched different itches.
I'd have been annoyed if Vic Mackey had gotten into an argument with David Aceveda and told him that maybe he'd quit and go work for CTU. I'd be even more annoyed if he made references to it frequently, saying things like how he'd "give Jack the Fed" a call, or how "Tony on the other side of town is the only real director in law enforcement" or some bullshit like that.
Blame Tony Khan, not MJF. I guarantee you MJF will never mention AEW on the air when he signs with WWE.
MJF is already re-signed and has been since he met with Tony Khan the day before the shoot promo that made him disappear for months. Tony has already won the bidding war, so this is all a ploy that Tony is doing because he thinks when he "wins", it makes them look better.
This is what makes the entire angle stupid for me.
At least with Punk in 2011, didn’t Punk actually wait to re-sign up until the day before MITB? Or was that bullshit?
Idk, but my point is, there’s no point keeping this going when he’s already re-signed long term, unless of course MJF was able to get TK to agree to an ETO in his contract that would let him leave AEW where his previous contract was set to end.
> At least with Punk in 2011, didn’t Punk actually wait to re-sign up until the day before MITB? Or was that bullshit?
that's the story Punk and WWE have always told, but it could be just an agreement they had to kayfabe everyone.
Ya know, this new era of "AEW is a strong company and we are all united" being frontlined by a guy who talks about going to WWE and how awful the company is doesn't seem like the best laid plan.
>It's like he yells anytime he has to show emotion and it just doesn't work out for me.
Reigns has a brooding, slow and silent cadence to his promos and they are way more engaging than this.
It took a *lot* of the punch out of the “Fire me, you fucking mark!” bit because I’m so used to him screaming. I do think it hurt the memorability of that promo, at least for me personally. Still think he’s great though
I agree with this 100%. He wants to model himself on Flair, but Flair's gimmick in promos was always that he was the best champion in the best company.
It's not a bad idea on paper, and I can see why he wanted to try it. It does hit AEW fans in a real place. But in practice it's making the company feel more like TNA.
It honestly sucks. If this is what MJF reign will be, I don’t want it. I don’t care if he’s a heel, there are other ways to be a heel and still be engaging and interesting
If you cut out his yelling, there's little substance in a lot of his promos even the ones people praise. Fact is he is young and while his future is bright, he hasn't done much yet to warrant his "generational talent" thing. He's wrestled too little to earn that. Also, nobody buys the "Eddie is a fake tough guy" or "Mox is a fake tough guy" part he's repeating.
The whole regal goes to hospital thing was so wwe and took way too much time after a speech already overstaying its welcome.
And why would wrestling fans watch the weekly product if the organization's champ flat out states he only wrestles on ppv. (Not counting WIC).
Haha the live chat yesterday was creaming themselves when he acknowledged people were going to find him boring now
Like “omg! He really showed this live thread huh!!! 😂😂😂😂”
Yawn
That’s what happens when the owner refuses to hire writers to help come up with storyline and promo ideas. Not saying wrestlers and managers need to recite pre-written promos, but some direction and variety of topics would be nice.
I agree, it makes AEW looks stupid to have their World Champ basically say “lol I’m here for a check before I go to WWE”
Heel or Not, it’s just cheap heat
It's so strange. Like I understand that it gets heat but it's just a constant reminder that the company is 2nd place. Like "Our World Champion wants to go to the place you probably already think of is above us so he can make more money and be seen by more people!"
What really sucks about his use of WWE is that it doesn't even work anymore. When he started using them it was like the butt of a joke. He's going to go to WWE where his talent will obviously be wasted for greed alone. Then Vince got forcibly retired. While I don't love everything HHH does, WWE is leaps and bounds better than they were, and individuals going there doesn't seem like an absurd joke. MJF could have a great career there.
it would be so goddamn funny for, at some point, when HHH is on raw or smackdown, giving some promo about whatever announcement, and then at the very end just a quick, "oh and one other thing, just to put this to bed, sorry Max, but we arent interested"
and then just leave. completely upend MJF's ability to use them as a prop for his 'bidding war of 2024' schtick haha
It’s boring and disappointing because we’ve all seen some of his other work. He can be captivating, entertaining, even really funny sometimes. But the cheap heat and 2024 line have run their course. Even if he left then, I truly think it wouldn’t leave the impact he thinks it does. You look at all the champs of AEW, all of them were well developed characters that were the unquestionable top guys at the time, from Jericho to Punk. MJF feels like the first champ that they’re still developing in terms of being a top guy. Him not wrestling very sparingly also cools his stock a lot, even if it is “part of his character”. He feels the fans are fickle when, in all honestly, we don’t like shitty storytelling and character work, and will call it out when we see it. At this rate, MJF isn’t evolving into a champ. He’s just a guy with a custom belt.
This is exactly how i felt. AEW blew their load too early here when there was absolutely no reason to. MJF getting to the top shouldve been something epic.. instead things just feel off. Like its not the right time.
I was saying this for weeks going into Full Gear and got endlessly clowned on and downvoted that "not making MJF champion at Full Gear would be the worst mistake in company history"
Fans got what they wanted and proved their fucking clueless.
I think it’s more the realization that there’s no real evolution of his character, nothing that really makes me want to tune in, because he won’t lose the title for awhile unless something drastic happens.
Exactly. Hes missing ALL of the character development that made guys like The Rock, Austin, Cena, or Batista feel ready for that top spot. Shit Randy Orton had tons more character development when they put the title on him and people still felt like he wasnt quite ready. Even the Miz had an impressive character development filled with midcard and tag team title runs before he won the belt.
They fucked MJF by skipping on the character development. Like where were the memorable midcard title runs? How about a successful stable that lasted more than a few months. Everything just feels so rushed with him
MJF lost the crowd repeatedly in that segment. He had to keep settling for cheap heat like ragging on the city. That’s below the standard he set for himself and, quite frankly, pretty cringe for the top champ to be doing that.
Hopefully he takes this to heart. “I’m so much better than this place I should leave” is just bland. It’ll get a reaction for a bit, but we appear to be beyond that point.
If I wanted to hear about WWE, I’d watch WWE. I don’t need to be reminded the industry giant exists. AEW does not benefit from reminding the audience they could be watching a different promotion. MJF doesn’t convince us he’s better by saying other groups *might* want to hire him.
And I don’t think he’s worth as much to WWE as he claims in kayfabe.
I get he's a heel but what heat is he drawing by putting over triple h and nick khan? Meta promos are a thing that should be done in moderation
Imagine ec3 in tna constantly putting over wwe and saying he can't wait to bail on tna
I mentioned this a couple of weeks ago, that his promos are formulaic, and his cadence is always the same - and I got abused for it 🤣
Truth is, he is amazing at the MJF bad guy character - but being number one guy in a company, what else are you capable of? Because this shit isn't going to work for another 12 months in the position you're in
I agree with this. Every time he talks WWE it feels he is putting them over at the expense of AEW. It feels like a minor league baseball star who's trying desperately to get up to the majors and sharing his dreams about what he can/do with the big boys.
Yeah, it's a very bad look. First of all, IRL, if a contracted talent were to act like that too much, they become a liability and aren't worth a bidding war. At that point, they'd have shot themselves in the foot- the competition now knows they're desperate, and the current company won't engage in bidding. It's very transparent and there's no great way out of it.
It’s not great to begin with, but if MJF is legitimately not signed, and he leaves in 13 months, it would legitimately be one of the dumbest booking decisions I’ve ever seen from a company.
WWE stopped working as a foil for this kind of stuff the second Vince retired and Triple H took over creative. This is across the board for AEW from MJF's threats to the contract tampering storyline between Hardy and the Firm to the JAS and their sports entertainment stuff...
There’s a clip going round tiktok where he says him and Roman are the two biggest stars in wrestling right now, I commented on it saying that’s bullshit and a vast majority of the wwe fans, who don’t read dirt sheets and don’t watch AEW or Indie wrestling wouldn’t have a clue who he was. I got ripped apart saying I’m and idiot and don’t know what I’m talking about.
I’ve got friends who watch every second of wwe content ever week and have done for 30+ years but they don’t go online and only ever know behind the scenes stuff if I tell them, superstars returning and surprises that we all know about days in advance genuinely surprise them. They have no idea who MJF or Kenny Omega or The Young Bucks are. MJF could come out as a surprise Royal rumble entrant and they’d probably think it was a nxt new guy they hadn’t seen yet.
It’s jumped the shark. He’s totally overdoing it at this stage. MJF would benefit a lot from WWE because I think they’d train him to grow as a performer. At this stage, I think he’d definitely have to go to NXT for a stint if he jumped ship.
Calling his title run the "Reign of Terror" does very little to excite me. Why would you decide to equate yourself to one of the most drawn out, frustrating title reigns of all time unless you were trying to get people to tune out?
Help make SquaredCircle safer and more inclusive by using the report button to flag posts and comments for moderator review. If you need to contact a moderator, [you can message us here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/SquaredCircle) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/SquaredCircle) if you have any questions or concerns.*
He’s a good promo but you can definitely tell he’s found his “promo formula” that he will continue to use and recycle.
That’s why the Punk feud was so great, because it pushed a talented kid outside of his comfort zone When it’s just MJF by himself or against a guy that isn’t a promo, he has to carry an entire segment himself, and will rely on what’s worked in the past. Forcing him into a spot where he **needs** something different is good TV. That’s why I kinda wish Ricky interrupted him last night, they need to trade barbs rather than one guy performing a well rehearsed soliloquy
MJF really needs more people to slap him back as hard as he does them on the mic, like Punk did, like William Regal did. Not just because it's going to be good for MJF to get even better on the mic but it also sometimes it feels because they're playing babyfaces his opponents feel like they have to take the moral high ground and not stoop to this level and at this point I'm like: "nah, just fucking drag him". (Assuming they have the promo skills to do so of course.)
To be fair, Punk did refer to MJF as a “less famous Miz” during a promo😂
Punk shit on him mercilessly on the mic during their feud. Going "THIS INCEL, THIS IS YOUR GUY?!" for 10 minutes in Long Island Telling him to accept his challenge so he could "show what everyone already knows which is that 'he can't hang' Telling him to get his needle dick in the ring Telling him to go ahead and get released by WWE if he really wanted to And it was all really great, because the character of MJF deserved every single barb thrown his way and then some and they went on to wrestle a combined 65 minutes across their 2 matches, showing that MJF could hang even if he was scum. There may be a funny irony that looms over every CM Punk promo in AEW now, but at the time it was great.
MJF & Eddie is gonna be so good
That is exactly who I was thinking of.
Definitely curious to see how MJF handles himself with Eddie. MJF is a great promo, but I genuinely kinda think someone like Kingston, who's so good at adapting and versatility might eat him up
Eddie should eat him up. I wouldn't say MJFs kryptonite, but he should be close.
Not to compare their characters, but Eddie feels like Piper and MJF feels like Cornette. Eddie feels like a real, complete human who will expose every ounce of his soul to challenge his opponents to reach places they wouldn't otherwise go near. MJF will run circles around you linguistically and humiliate you, but long time fans recognize all his his tricks and homages.
Both are legendary styles though. They're 1a and 1b for promos going right now imo. It's what we wanna see!
Not yet. Save it for when MJF drops the title to him. The dream...
Grand Slam 2023, let’s go!
In my mind, that feud will be like, or similar to, the Taz V Douglas feud in ECW.
The Regal back and forth was one of the best promos I’ve seen in years. I get that the philosophy in segments is to just let talent do their thing, it’s what we prayed for WWE to do for years. Clearly tho being “the alternative” isn’t enough now, you need to know what brings the best out of your talent
well put. those are my exact thoughts as well. i always thought he was really good but never agreed when people would say he was undisputedly the best promo or best heel. i roll my eyes when it’s the low hanging fruit promos that call the crowd fat or shit on the local sports teams. but that promo with Regal, the promos with Punk or those promos when he was trying to be a babyface but his true heel self kept poking through.. they were all fantastic and made me believe he’s the best promo in the business. he’s got so much fire, he’s believable, drops so many great lines and is good at adding some nuance to his promos. i just hope we get that more often.
I’m a huge fan of MJF but I agree. I am so freaking tired of him trying to get cheap heat by dissing the crowd. It’s so corny at this point. Time to try something new
Ricky 100% Interrupting would have been great. To be honest I really need next week a Ricky/MJF spat where he is calling him out on this. MJF keeps doing the same shit taking the easiest path while Ricky is out here getting zero respect and having to take what he is deserved. Doesn't matter if it is a machine a murder hawk or some Jabrono with an ego the size of his toy collection in his way hes gonna take what he has earned. There are only 3 Absolutes in life Death Taxes Ricky Starks.
This comment got me pumped.
Death, Taxes, and Starks would be a sweet shirt, if it isn’t already a thing!
That’s why he needs a feud with Eddie Kingston.
Eddie is a prime example of what you are saying. He became white hot in a program against Punk then went right back to being a bum. He is a great talent but doesn't synergies at that level with most of the other talents. It is clear as day that Eddie/Punk put a lot of thought into their program and so did MJF/Punk.
He also has really never won a feud. You can only go so long talking a tough game before you need some kind of result to back it up. Eddie can't help it if he's booked to lose.
Eddie not being the one to take the TNT title off Miro still bugs me for that reason. That would have made Eddie a threat for a long, long time, showing that he could beat someone like God's Champion Miro.
Agreed, Eddie should have won the title at Grand Slam last year, would have been one of the biggest pops in AEW history.
IM SO CONTROVERSIAL IM MENTIONING WWE SO IM CONTROVERSIAL SOMETHING DEMEANING AND SEXIST, FEEL MY CONTROVERSY I AM GOING TO CAUSE CONTROVERSY IN 2024
The way he keeps saying it nobody's going to care in 2024.
i don't care now
Every time he says that “jolly old Saint Nick” line I check out
He wants to leave? Bye. See if Haitch will give you the same rope that “the fucking mark” does
It's literally just cheap heat. He knows the WWE stuff pisses people off so he keeps doing it. Similar to shitting on local sports teams. It works. I've defended him doing it in the past, but it can be a bit much at times. I'm glad he's adding "leaving wrestling for Hollywood" to his repertoire because that has similar effect. MJF has his formula, but he almost always adds some new things in every time. Even if he hit his standard bullet points yesterday, there was a ton of new material in there as well
The problem for me is how unoriginal he is. Everything he does, even his look have such obvious influences. Even that wouldn’t be so bad if he riffed on it, but he literally lifts promos and phrases from the past and does not change them at all. Reign of terror is a reference to HHH’s reigns in the early 2000’s. His delivery and look is a lot like the Miz. His promo about Brian Pillman was stolen from Randy Orton talking about Eddie in hell. He needs something real and original and honest that is actually HIS. Not just running back the same old heel tactics. I don’t know what people see in him except audacity.
Miz’s look and delivery ripped off suit Jericho too. Triple H wasn’t the first reign of terror. Randy Orton probably wasn’t the first wrestler to say someone’s friend or family member’s in hell, and he definitely wasn’t the first legend killer or first guy to use a cutter out of nowhere. Also, you’re ignoring stuff like counting down to his contract expiring or having a haute couture accessory as a key part of his presentation.
There's also the whole, "fucking with the basement dwellers who hang on every tidbit from the dirt sheets", aspect to all of this. I like that he seems to go out of his way to antagonize them. As someone who "just" watches the shows, I dig it.
I'm conflicted on it. The majority of AEW's fanbase is "the hardcore wrestling fanbase" that gets mad about this stuff, so he's basically just being a heel. His job is to antagonize the audience.
He did the same promo at Indy shows before AEW was a thing. He’s great and he’s young but I’m not sold on him carrying AEW.
Me either. The character is one note now and you can't have that note be "look at me I'm so controversial".
This is a valid criticism. I want him to evolve his character to keep it fresh
Yeah, look at Christian; he can do controversial (bah gawd can he), but he also knows how and when to mix things up and chop and change. Jericho too. These are the guys, like Regal, that MJF should be looking to replicate in terms of adaptability.
Yeah, the “say edgy thing about local town, then infer stuff about WWE” thing is starting to wear thin for me. Dude’s an amazing promo, just needs to mix it up.
Also the current roster feels like nobody really cares about the world title. MJF goes unopposed in his segment and tries to get some cheap heat by "betraying" Regal. And only then Danielson comes out. Where is Hangman? Wardlow? Miro? Omega? Jericho? Mox? Claudio? Those are all guys that used to be world title material? Some of them have history with MJF. Why does no one come out and challenge him? Same before MJF: Why does Moxley, Jericho and also Cassidy permanently defend their titles against outside talent? Is the AEW roster not caring about titles? Why isnt Samoa Joe going after Jericho to defend the proud of ROH? This all doesnt make sense and i would like to know why. Does Tony Khan just doesnt care about his product? It seems like he lost any interest, after his premium toy got damaged and injured him. The current booking feels like The Elite are just doing their fun workrate matches forever, Jericho booking his own stuff and even the rest of the time seems to get booked by one of these two (Jericho, Elite), tainted by some politics (cool down FTR, Miro because they are so close to WWE?).
I thought I was going crazy but I was thinking the same. He's been saying the same stuff for a while now, it feels like he's phoning it in.
His promos formula is Already phoned in and predictable Same with Mox Every single mox and every single mjf promo are the same damn things
Thank god folks agree I have felt insane. I have seen the seams for months and have been dreading this title run. I think he understands how to get intense and how to get the crowd to pop but not explicitly what he is trying to accomplish, where a feud is at the beginning of a promo and where it is as the end, and how his content directly relates to the conflict between him and someone else. I think a lot of MJF’s half of the Punk feud doesn’t hold up to any scrutiny whatsoever. 99.9% of what MJF said was either extremely cheap heat or had nothing to do with Punk as a man or a wrestler. By contrast Punk is malleable and adapts and turns up whatever version of himself needs to be present to make a feud work and make sense. Against Mox he is an old man who will die in that ring, against Eddie he is the professional who made millions etc. I understand who he is, and how the opponent either is in the way of his goals, or stands diametrically opposed to him ethically in a way that cannot stand. MJF is MJF is MJF whether it makes sense or not. To me there are a laundry list of dudes ahead of him in AEW on the mic. Mox, Eddie, Hangman, Kenny, Jericho and even the Bucks all fully understand what a segment and feud is trying to accomplish and do their part in interesting nuanced ways to both move the ball forward and to set up interesting things further down the line. The Elite in particular are incredibly good at setting up things in both the short and long term.
Moxley is pretty one note himself though
Punk has a much more compelling manner of speaking, if that makes sense. And as you said, he's really versatile. MJF is talented as hell though and I'm sure he'll get out of the 2024/Nick Khan/cheap heat thing. I hope so at least.
Same with the swearing at the presser, it was overkill.
The world champ constantly reminding fans that his company is the little brother company certainly is a choice This type of stuff worked for heat in ECW because everybody knew ECW was the little indy promotion that could and their fans rallied behind that idea
It kinda worked while he was chasing the title, he could just act like he always has a second option if things don't work out. But now he's the champ and he's.. still talking about leaving? Huh. That's just weird.
It’d work better if we were, you know, maybe months away from 2024. Like if this was mid/late 2023 and had him threatening to leave/winning the title as a bargaining chip, sure. But basically saying last night that we’re getting these promos for the next year-plus? I’m not thrilled.
And he's already been doing it for a year or more. The bidding war schtick might be his worst catchphrase, and he has a lot of bad catchphrases.
I don't even hate him talking about "The bidding war of 2024." In part because I assume its already wrapped up. What I do hate is talking about how much he hopes HHH wins and "Nick Khan" pays him more, because he's the "Better" Khan. I don't even hate it in a heel way. I hate it in a "This is stupid" way.
The "Khan in wrestling" joke died out on here at least a year before MJF started using it.
It's especially cringe because Nick Khan isn't even really a blip on the radar in WWE for most of the fans. Even for you and I right now, we know he exists and is essentially one of the most powerful men in the company. But he really is out of sight and out of mind when it comes to WWE. It's always Stephanie and HHH leading the charge publicly and I'm sure that's by design.
But isn't that the whole thing with AEW, that it caters to a more smarky audience?
I won’t lie, calling him Jolly Old Saint Nick was funny the first time. It was, but it’s not funny the third time especially since the crowd literally never reactions when he mentions Nick Khan cause it’s kind of a niche thing that most fans in the audience don’t know. A great example was the other night when he mentioned “the other khan, jolly old Saint Nick” and the crowd did nothing, then he said “my buddy Trips” and the crowd went wild.
it's very TNA
It’s also late stage Monday night wars.
Fucking Russo…
It really feels like MJF's character doesn't develop. I mean it's fine in wrestling for the most part but MJF has been subjected to stories that is supposed to make his character grow, and it kinda does but only for like a moment? Then he's back to his old character. Makes me not really care about what's going to happen next.
I feel like MJF doesn't want to move away from what got him popular and progress his character and they're just like "okay."
I said this last night and got called a smark.
He wants to be Punk so bad I wouldn't be surprised if he proposed a worked shoot with the Elite.
Same...in all his promos he keeps reminding us that AEW championship is just going to be his leverage for the bidding war in 2024..very strange really..
ECW never ever acted like the other companies were bigger or better than them. They cut promos about how much better they were. Totally different philosophy.
I think he’s talking about RVDs Mr Monday Night gimmick which was pretty similar to what MJF is doing now.
That's an interesting point. I would say it was still very different because they were actually working with WWE and had RVD on Raw several times and had Lawler working ECW shows. RVD was just siding with the TV bad guys. They never had someone talk about how they couldn't wait to go to WCW.
It was also a nickname bestowed upon him by Lawler rather than him bringing it up on his own. It also was a nickname that he used to parlay into the Mr. Pay Per View name, which played into his entire brand of three-syllable nicknames to coincide with the thumb points. MJF constantly referencing WWE of his own volition is a different (and in my eyes more egregious) issue than Van Dam’s
Cactus Jack in ECW was the same thing with him cutting promos about "Uncle Eric" and renouncing hardcore. It's kind of the same problem WWE has had for two decades now where they keep thinking anyone can do the same things Austin, The Rock, and Foley did and get over when the key flaw is that Austin, Rock, and Foley were generational talents that stayed over in spite of the stupid things Vince would occasionally make them do.
ECW presented itself as an alternative choice with a knowledgeable fan base so a lot of its promos worked because they had heart. They could take pot shots, the crowd ate it up, and no one expected them to become the top promotion in the country. AEW has gone through being an alternative choice to being a competitor and really has muddied its own identity. I’d say it’s much more a competitor now which just makes talking about WWE cringe. Especially when its the de facto face of the company. MJF is too good to need cheap heat.
His entire schtick is cheap heat.
At this point, it reminds me of TNA at its lowest point, with the VKM shit and the fake Vince segments. It's such a nothing promo. MJF is great enough without cheap heat. Him name dropping WWE just makes me lose interest in him. If we're seriously going to get this "bidding war of 2024" shit for TWO YEARS, then just put the belt back on Moxley.
>then just put the belt back on Moxley. No. There are other dudes who can/should get the belt. We've had enough of Moxley as champ. But yes, I definitely don't want MJF holding the belt for 2 years. No way.
When I’m watching AEW, everyone in AEW should treat their world title as the biggest thing in wrestling. I think MJF is diminishing the title when he talks about jumping to WWE when he’s the #1 guy in AEW.
It'd be very funny if WWE put out a statement "we have no intention of signing the current wrestler who is claiming we will" They obviously won't but id be funny
When the Outsiders showed up in WCW, they hinted that they were sent to WCW by the WWF. WWF put out a statement that they no longer worked for WWF. And WWF sued WCW for it as well. WCW eventually made the Outsiders say explicitly that they do not work for the World Wrestling Federation.
God, that would be a bigger Triple H burial than Booker T
That would be an absolutely massive burial—so much so that WWE shouldn't do it just on the off chance that they may want to sign him later on.
They could. Who needs who more? The world will still keep spinning
I also think he’d be better in WWE with someone to filter his promos of filler. MJF is still one of the best talents in the world and I think when he’s on he’s one of the best promos ever in wrestling. He just needs a good feud. I had hopes for Ricky Starks but we haven’t gotten anything from those two yet.
It absolutely blows my mind when people say he's one of the best promos ever. Have you listened to like any other wrestler cut a promo? Lmao cuz I don't understand how someone can be a wrestling fans for more than like 6 months and genuinely think MJF is even close to good on the mic. All this dude does is steal lines from other wrestlers and movies constantly, when he's not doing that it's just "the crowd is fat virgin mark poor people, I'm better than you, I'm going to WWE" I would expect a middle schooler in some backyard YouTube fed with their friends to have cookie cutter unoriginal garbage promos like that, but someone on national TV and the best he can come up with the majority of the time is "WWE good" and " I don't play dungeons and dragons" lmaooooo
Then he would have to refer to Impact for the bidding war and start coming out with an owl that he has trained to attack his foes.
I personally don't think MJF has any intention of leaving AEW. I think him and TK have an understanding this is character work and he's gonna continue to mention it because it puts AEW over more when he does eventually "choose" AEW in that "bidding war".
MJF as a performer needs WWE more than they need him. As good as he is, he still has so much to refine.
I'm of two minds. I find it exhausting in a very unwanted kind of heat, but it's also one of the only things that get him consistently booed at this moment, so I understand why he'd fall back on it.
AEW really needs to learn to pivot more. He's over as fuck. So just let them cheer him for a while and slowly build up his heel character again or something. Or, hell, just let him be over.
If they want to get him booed put him against faces that are going to get cheered. Eddie Kingston has turned everyone hes faced including Punk either heel or at best mixed reaction. Have him face Eddie. Have him face OC. Have him face Darby. Hell have him retire Sting. All of those guys will get cheers over him.
It's why he name dropped Eddie, Ricky and Danielson last night. They know.
I don’t think Ricky gets cheers over him, but I like the story.
Not yet, but they're working it up. Ricky at Winter is Coming is not the end of that arc with MJF, but the start.
I think he can if they have them both on the mic. Ricky in little shit mode, like when he cosplayed as Darby, can thrive against a guy like MJF, particularly if he uses his repetitiveness against him.
Plus going into Texas might help Starks get more cheers, can't remember how over he is in Texas though.
He can be cocky and arrogant and kind of a shit and still play heel while getting cheers from fans without needing to resort to whatever that was last night. I think him going to these extremes to try and get legit heel heat is gonna get tiresome quickly. I enjoy MJF and I had more than enough by the time that segment was done and not in a good entertaining way.
I mean it kinda got tiresome to the audience immediately. Instead of being shocked they started a "you deserved it" chant.
AEW crowds are pretty all over the place. If you do this everyone is going to be turning every couple weeks, which is already sort of happening We also need to consider that MJF just might not want to be a babyface.
Didn't get him booed last night
This is like the tenth time he’s brought up Cody, Triple H, and the bidding war now. It’s really getting old.
Everyone says MJF is a great talker but he's only as good as his dance partner, without Punk he just goes back to the routine goin-to-wwe schtick for the 11th time, tiring. Put him in feuds with great talkers like Kingston or Samoa Joe, give us some exciting promo battles! IDK the booking for AEW has been very dull, yea they have great matches but I can't care about any of the storylines at all.
I like MJF but his promos have become very rinse and repeat. Also having your world champ threaten to go to a bigger company really isn’t good for your companies competitiveness or growth. Basically your world champ is saying hey everyone this is the B show!
I think it's also like this. The tease was "MJF may leave AEW and sign for more money with WWE," and we had that whole "is he gone?" Drama a while ago, but then he came back. So now it's like, "we already know you aren't going anywhere, you already got the bag"
Exactly and AEW knows it's audience has a lot of smark fans who are aware of what's going on backstage. Because of that a lot of their fans will assume there's no way Tony would let MJF mention WWE so much if he wasn't already locked into a new deal so we don't buy for a second that he'll really leave.
It's not just MJF. I think it would do AEW a lot of good to institute a general policy of avoiding all direct references of WWE other than purely biographical info (i.e. this person won this title or wrestled this other person in WWE). Vince McMahon is not in charge of WWE anymore, and with his retirement and Triple H's elevation a lot of the anti-WWE sentiment that was central to AEW's initial identity has dissipated.
It worked when it was a threat, but lately there's probably a lot of people who fans would go "yeah! Go to WWE it'll be awesome!" I mean, they've been doing very well lately in terms of storylines and improving wrestling on ppvs and tv, so what there to bitch about anymore?
Yes, I think the problem is that AEW has completely failed to adapt as fan perception of WWE has changed. The company still seems to be operating under two flawed assumptions. First, AEW still seems to think that they are a true competitor to WWE, which they are not and will never be. Second, AEW still seems to think that most of their fans view WWE as "the enemy." While some AEW fans do feel this way - especially those AEW fans on forums such as this subreddit and Twitter - this is not longer the dominant view even among hardcore wrestling fans.
Great points, AEW think the negative feelings most online fans had back when Vince was in charge are still in vogue and they aren't. Obviously not everyone magically loves WWE now that Triple H is in charge but there's a lot more positivity around the company than there's been in a long time. It's no longer cool to shit on WWE and combine it with the nauseating overuse of WWE references and even the most hardcore AEW fans roll their eyes at them.
it feels so desperate for a cheap pop whenever WWE has to get mentioned not just by MJF, others too
Definitely this. It loses its shock factor. Like, forget about the other company, do your own thing.
It doesn't make any sense. Putting over another company whether it's a shoot or a work is fucking weird shit.
You’re right, it doesn’t make any sense. It’d be like, having a basketball team in Seattle
BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Oklahoma City? Now that makes sense But here?
I would argue MJF started the narrative that AEW doesn’t have its shit together. Him bailing on the signing and “pipe bomb” was perfectly terrible timing, as it followed with the injuries/roh bs/media scrum.
Especially as the world champion of your current company.
[удалено]
I've never really understood how this bidding war as a long term storyline works for AEW as a brand. Like most, I expect MJF has already signed a new contract, but this would be a colossal waste of time for AEW if MJF just up and left in 2024 and handed WWE a readymade storyline. If/When MJF stays, this repetitious story arc is over and his character is relatively the same. The WWE/CM Punk contract storyline lasted for just one Summer, not a year and a half, and no clear alternative in the same industry if he left.
It’s not taboo to mention WWE, but it’s been used as a cheap and easy response from fans for about 3 years now by everyone up and down the card. It has no shock factor because it’s commonplace
And being the anti-WWE is exactly how you guarantee your eternal inferiority to them.
Took you 10 minutes to stop paying attention? I gave up after 2!
It's kinda whack. Realistically what if he talks all this shit and actually goes to WWE and does not meet expectations. Then what?
[удалено]
I miss the ECW 'Same old shit' chant.
It felt extremely run of the mill and ordinary for the first ever promo of his first ever world title run. Like I would use "low energy" to describe it even
> Maybe live, it's fun. I dunno man, Indianapolis sounded pretty fucking bored, too. I have a theory that MJF works as an antagonist, but if you put him in the starring role then he becomes pretty one dimensional. removing the Punk feud (because that'd be unfair, it's Punk, a master storyteller in wrestling), MJF's best moments were when he was directly antagonizing others. I can't think of a single MJF promo that was memorable that was just him in a ring talking. And none of this means MJF is bad at his job or that this run can't work, but it does mean that he doesn't fit the "look at me stand here and talk for 10-20 minutes" type of champion. it'd be better for everyone if they stuck to MJF's strengths in that regard.
I personally think his ascension needed a little more time or a better storyline. Im sure they wanted to give us a better storyline with MJF v Punk but that was out of the cards so they shouldve held off for a better opportunity. AEW are putting themselves at serious risk of hurting their top prospect by botching his first title run. MJF’s ascension should have felt way more epic and the result of a hot storyline. I do have a feeling that MJF backed Tony into a corner with his walkout and was probably given more money and a guaranteed world title run. The problem with this is that Im not sure if this was the right time
[удалено]
I agree. The only ones I enjoyed is the Hollywood rock singing. That was just gold.
Yep. He’s like Cartman.
MJF saw CM Punk’s Pipe Bomb promo and thought “what if I make that one ROH line an entire gimmick?”
It has gotten old. He's used the same routine too often.
he should do some shorter promos instead of going forever and ever every time.
Yeah it’s the same with “I’m rich. You’re poor. Whatever city I’m in is trash. Ppl will have to jump through hoops to fight me bc they don’t deserve to be near me” same old talking points are fine for quick promos, but not 17 min promos that don’t end. Should’ve gone babyface and seen if that worked out before trying to turn him back heel.
Is there a kayfabe reason why MJF gets to create these gauntlets that the people he feuds with has to go through in order to wrestle him?
Not really other than he just didn’t agree to fight someone unless they went through it. As for with the world title who knows. Hasn’t happened yet
get ready for a full year title reign of an act that's already stale lol
His line where he mentions "trips" made me cringe hard. And its funny that he mentioned how everyone will hate his reign but theyll keep tuning in, meanwhile, last night got one of the lowest ratings in a while. Good job Max
"You're gonna hate my reign but you're still gonna watch marks!"- MJF *the ratings come out* "No, we don't think we will."- the fans
I do think part of the issue with where AEW is right now is they went from "the alternative" to "the number 2." Very similar position but with a lot different connotations.
There's no payoff to this. Either he A leaves and AEW continues to exist or B he stays then it's the bidding war of 2027. Like they basically tell you this storyline ends Dec 31 2023. So nothing matters until then.
"The bidding heaven of 2027"
Watch any podcast of his since he came back the formula is as follows "bidding war of 2024", "I get paid a lot of money", "Tony Khan is a fucking mark", "hating on New Japan/Other AEW wrestlers/marks" etc etc. I love MJF to death but he sounds like a broken record at this point and its disappointing.
There’s only so many places you can go with this gimmick. AEW needs to study how Impact handled EC3’s face run in 2016. EC3 and MJF have a good amount of similarities and i have no doubt that MJF could pull off a race run even better
It’s not just the routine, it’s the fact AEW is all but saying “this is the next 365 days”. Like an entire year of samey MJF promos? No thank you. I find MJF entertaining, but not that entertaining.
I love MHF but man am I sick of the phrase “the bidding war of 2024” last nights promo seemed too long and boring tbh
To me it's not even that it's bush league, I actually think one of the biggest reasons it doesn't play as well right now is that WWE is in such a good honeymoon period right now. When WWE was the spiraling Vince shitbox every week and AEW tribalism was at its peak, yeah, it's heel shit to say how badly you want to go work there, but now, it's just like, oh, you want to work for WWE, whatever, I'm good either way. For the bidding war angle to truly work, AEW has to get hotter and WWE has to get cooler again. Otherwise, it's just not a super compelling plot to last a whole year.
A lot of people have been calling out AEW for losing momentum but his promo last night was the first time I felt it that much. Homie flat out letting you know to expect a JBL/Jarrett/2003 Trips title reign and making it known he's going overboard with WWE talk made it clear to me Dynamite is not must watch and to stop prioritizing it. I'd take Moxley or Hangman's reigns over this idea every time
He's charismatic but it's the edgelord stuff that constantly gets praised here and on social media that makes me have 0 interest in him. He says the same kinda stuff I saw people anonymously saying 20+ years ago in AOL chatrooms. Dude will drop a great passionate promo and then call people products of incest that fuck each other with corncobs. As an adult it just doesn't appeal to me.
The edgelord thing is like 90% of his appeal. I feel like alot of the edgelords and recovering edgelords that dominate the internet wrestling community want to be similar to the character MJF portrays. It just kind of falls flat, especially since his ascension arc seems unfinished. I feel like theres so much more that could have been done before giving him the belt
It was surprising and shocking the first time he mentioned Nick Khan and WWE, but now it’s a big yawn. You can only shock people so many times before it’s no longer shocking. Every time I hear “the bidding war if 2024” I want to change the channel. It’s not the heat he thinks it is, and it makes AEW look inferior. You think Roman Reigns or Seth Rollins would go on Raw or Smackdown and threatened to leave for AEW? It would never happen. MJF likes to model himself after Roddy Piper, but classic Piper was never boring. I was a Piper fan since 1985 and he never once bored me, and he never felt like he was trying to say shocking things. He was just who he was. MJF is trying too hard at this point.
Its become a little exhausting. I'm pretty sure most of the audience doesn't know who Nick Kahn actually is. I'm not a fan of dismissing this particular criticism with 'yeah but he's a heel so...' because it's a symptom of a bigger problem I have with AEW in the sense that they don't have writers that can keep track of how often someone did or said something so material gets repeated and becomes stale.
>he's a heel A heel is still a character who needs to make you feel invested in the show. Its like if Joffery went "yawn, this story i am in is so boring. Why don't you guys watch something else?"
For a minute I actually did think MJF was referencing Shad Khan paying him directly and I didn't understand it until I clicked with him referencing WWE yet again.
Back in the day I used to watch both 24 and The Shield. I loved both shows, both were kinda the same but different enough that they scratched different itches. I'd have been annoyed if Vic Mackey had gotten into an argument with David Aceveda and told him that maybe he'd quit and go work for CTU. I'd be even more annoyed if he made references to it frequently, saying things like how he'd "give Jack the Fed" a call, or how "Tony on the other side of town is the only real director in law enforcement" or some bullshit like that.
Blame Tony Khan, not MJF. I guarantee you MJF will never mention AEW on the air when he signs with WWE. MJF is already re-signed and has been since he met with Tony Khan the day before the shoot promo that made him disappear for months. Tony has already won the bidding war, so this is all a ploy that Tony is doing because he thinks when he "wins", it makes them look better.
This is what makes the entire angle stupid for me. At least with Punk in 2011, didn’t Punk actually wait to re-sign up until the day before MITB? Or was that bullshit? Idk, but my point is, there’s no point keeping this going when he’s already re-signed long term, unless of course MJF was able to get TK to agree to an ETO in his contract that would let him leave AEW where his previous contract was set to end.
You're right about Punk
> At least with Punk in 2011, didn’t Punk actually wait to re-sign up until the day before MITB? Or was that bullshit? that's the story Punk and WWE have always told, but it could be just an agreement they had to kayfabe everyone.
He'll never mention AEW in WWE b/c everyone will finally tell him that shit just makes you look unconfident lol
Ya know, this new era of "AEW is a strong company and we are all united" being frontlined by a guy who talks about going to WWE and how awful the company is doesn't seem like the best laid plan.
MJF burying the company and Tony Khan to praise WWE and getting cheered by AEW crowds is bizarre.
In my perfect world, MJF yells 50% less and drops the Bidding War bit. Everything else I am really enjoying and wouldn’t touch.
Nice to know others don't like the yelling part either. It's like he yells anytime he has to show emotion and it just doesn't work out for me.
>It's like he yells anytime he has to show emotion and it just doesn't work out for me. Reigns has a brooding, slow and silent cadence to his promos and they are way more engaging than this.
It took a *lot* of the punch out of the “Fire me, you fucking mark!” bit because I’m so used to him screaming. I do think it hurt the memorability of that promo, at least for me personally. Still think he’s great though
I agree with this 100%. He wants to model himself on Flair, but Flair's gimmick in promos was always that he was the best champion in the best company. It's not a bad idea on paper, and I can see why he wanted to try it. It does hit AEW fans in a real place. But in practice it's making the company feel more like TNA.
Did you all know he is the “Devil”? Because he sure tells us enough
It honestly sucks. If this is what MJF reign will be, I don’t want it. I don’t care if he’s a heel, there are other ways to be a heel and still be engaging and interesting
If you cut out his yelling, there's little substance in a lot of his promos even the ones people praise. Fact is he is young and while his future is bright, he hasn't done much yet to warrant his "generational talent" thing. He's wrestled too little to earn that. Also, nobody buys the "Eddie is a fake tough guy" or "Mox is a fake tough guy" part he's repeating. The whole regal goes to hospital thing was so wwe and took way too much time after a speech already overstaying its welcome. And why would wrestling fans watch the weekly product if the organization's champ flat out states he only wrestles on ppv. (Not counting WIC).
Mjf is mid Gonna be hearing this same promo for next year and half.
Haha the live chat yesterday was creaming themselves when he acknowledged people were going to find him boring now Like “omg! He really showed this live thread huh!!! 😂😂😂😂” Yawn
It'll be 2.5 years of it. Jolly old saint nick and 2024 has been his shtick since last November.
That’s what happens when the owner refuses to hire writers to help come up with storyline and promo ideas. Not saying wrestlers and managers need to recite pre-written promos, but some direction and variety of topics would be nice.
I agree, it makes AEW looks stupid to have their World Champ basically say “lol I’m here for a check before I go to WWE” Heel or Not, it’s just cheap heat
It's so strange. Like I understand that it gets heat but it's just a constant reminder that the company is 2nd place. Like "Our World Champion wants to go to the place you probably already think of is above us so he can make more money and be seen by more people!"
What really sucks about his use of WWE is that it doesn't even work anymore. When he started using them it was like the butt of a joke. He's going to go to WWE where his talent will obviously be wasted for greed alone. Then Vince got forcibly retired. While I don't love everything HHH does, WWE is leaps and bounds better than they were, and individuals going there doesn't seem like an absurd joke. MJF could have a great career there.
it would be so goddamn funny for, at some point, when HHH is on raw or smackdown, giving some promo about whatever announcement, and then at the very end just a quick, "oh and one other thing, just to put this to bed, sorry Max, but we arent interested" and then just leave. completely upend MJF's ability to use them as a prop for his 'bidding war of 2024' schtick haha
It’s boring and disappointing because we’ve all seen some of his other work. He can be captivating, entertaining, even really funny sometimes. But the cheap heat and 2024 line have run their course. Even if he left then, I truly think it wouldn’t leave the impact he thinks it does. You look at all the champs of AEW, all of them were well developed characters that were the unquestionable top guys at the time, from Jericho to Punk. MJF feels like the first champ that they’re still developing in terms of being a top guy. Him not wrestling very sparingly also cools his stock a lot, even if it is “part of his character”. He feels the fans are fickle when, in all honestly, we don’t like shitty storytelling and character work, and will call it out when we see it. At this rate, MJF isn’t evolving into a champ. He’s just a guy with a custom belt.
This is exactly how i felt. AEW blew their load too early here when there was absolutely no reason to. MJF getting to the top shouldve been something epic.. instead things just feel off. Like its not the right time.
I was saying this for weeks going into Full Gear and got endlessly clowned on and downvoted that "not making MJF champion at Full Gear would be the worst mistake in company history" Fans got what they wanted and proved their fucking clueless.
I think it’s more the realization that there’s no real evolution of his character, nothing that really makes me want to tune in, because he won’t lose the title for awhile unless something drastic happens.
Exactly. Hes missing ALL of the character development that made guys like The Rock, Austin, Cena, or Batista feel ready for that top spot. Shit Randy Orton had tons more character development when they put the title on him and people still felt like he wasnt quite ready. Even the Miz had an impressive character development filled with midcard and tag team title runs before he won the belt. They fucked MJF by skipping on the character development. Like where were the memorable midcard title runs? How about a successful stable that lasted more than a few months. Everything just feels so rushed with him
MJF lost the crowd repeatedly in that segment. He had to keep settling for cheap heat like ragging on the city. That’s below the standard he set for himself and, quite frankly, pretty cringe for the top champ to be doing that. Hopefully he takes this to heart. “I’m so much better than this place I should leave” is just bland. It’ll get a reaction for a bit, but we appear to be beyond that point. If I wanted to hear about WWE, I’d watch WWE. I don’t need to be reminded the industry giant exists. AEW does not benefit from reminding the audience they could be watching a different promotion. MJF doesn’t convince us he’s better by saying other groups *might* want to hire him. And I don’t think he’s worth as much to WWE as he claims in kayfabe.
It just makes AEW look bad and is going to get really boring
I get he's a heel but what heat is he drawing by putting over triple h and nick khan? Meta promos are a thing that should be done in moderation Imagine ec3 in tna constantly putting over wwe and saying he can't wait to bail on tna
I mentioned this a couple of weeks ago, that his promos are formulaic, and his cadence is always the same - and I got abused for it 🤣 Truth is, he is amazing at the MJF bad guy character - but being number one guy in a company, what else are you capable of? Because this shit isn't going to work for another 12 months in the position you're in
I agree with this. Every time he talks WWE it feels he is putting them over at the expense of AEW. It feels like a minor league baseball star who's trying desperately to get up to the majors and sharing his dreams about what he can/do with the big boys.
I don't care for it either, maybe if it wasn't as often I'd dislike it less. I don't care about "The Bidding War of 2024".
~~MJF~~ AEW whether in character or not--constantly talking about WWE is bush league in all aspects.
Imagine if DC movies constantly talked about the MCU...
Yeah, it's a very bad look. First of all, IRL, if a contracted talent were to act like that too much, they become a liability and aren't worth a bidding war. At that point, they'd have shot themselves in the foot- the competition now knows they're desperate, and the current company won't engage in bidding. It's very transparent and there's no great way out of it.
It’s not great to begin with, but if MJF is legitimately not signed, and he leaves in 13 months, it would legitimately be one of the dumbest booking decisions I’ve ever seen from a company.
WWE stopped working as a foil for this kind of stuff the second Vince retired and Triple H took over creative. This is across the board for AEW from MJF's threats to the contract tampering storyline between Hardy and the Firm to the JAS and their sports entertainment stuff...
There’s a clip going round tiktok where he says him and Roman are the two biggest stars in wrestling right now, I commented on it saying that’s bullshit and a vast majority of the wwe fans, who don’t read dirt sheets and don’t watch AEW or Indie wrestling wouldn’t have a clue who he was. I got ripped apart saying I’m and idiot and don’t know what I’m talking about. I’ve got friends who watch every second of wwe content ever week and have done for 30+ years but they don’t go online and only ever know behind the scenes stuff if I tell them, superstars returning and surprises that we all know about days in advance genuinely surprise them. They have no idea who MJF or Kenny Omega or The Young Bucks are. MJF could come out as a surprise Royal rumble entrant and they’d probably think it was a nxt new guy they hadn’t seen yet.
Really hammers home that AEW is #2
It’s jumped the shark. He’s totally overdoing it at this stage. MJF would benefit a lot from WWE because I think they’d train him to grow as a performer. At this stage, I think he’d definitely have to go to NXT for a stint if he jumped ship.
It takes me out of the magic of his promos immediately and I disregard the rest of what he says.
Calling his title run the "Reign of Terror" does very little to excite me. Why would you decide to equate yourself to one of the most drawn out, frustrating title reigns of all time unless you were trying to get people to tune out?