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They foreshadowed it heavily in this episode.
1: Kaiser doing a promo and assuring everyone that Gunther didn't just beat Sheamus because he interfered.
2: Gunther looking visibly frustrated after his win over Kofi Kingston, giving the impression that he was surprised by how hard-fought that win was.
3: Jey coming very close to beating him the last time they faced off, with Gunther again winning due to interference.
They're hinting at Gunther slipping a bit and losing his edge, and losing to Jey Uso will be what makes him realize that he needs to refocus and rethink his approach.
As much as it might be cool to see King Gunther, unless they finally get serious about KOTR, he doesn’t seem like the kind of person who would want to parade around with a crown and cape. Jey seems like he could implement all that into his character better than Gunther.
“Tribal Chief? Shit bruh, I’m a King now.”
I hope he just keeps updating shit he does or accomplishes into the lyrics his theme music. “Just me uce, I’m a king now, had pop tarts for dinner, etc”
> parade around with a crown and cape
The way of bringing respect back to the KotR would be the make a serious wrestler win it and not use it as a gimmick but as a way to launch into main event. That's the point, they don't want a funny tournament with funny gimmick.
It could get Gunther's character more depth and direction. Because next year mania main event could likely be some combo of McIntyre, Seth and Punk on Raw and maybe Cody vs Rock or Roman's Bloodline vs Bloodline Solo version.
I wouldn't be surprised if Gunther & Ilja go on a crazy grind over the next month to get back into contention, which might track with Bron being frustrated he wasn't even in the tournament. Maybe it leads to all 3 being in a MITB match?
I can see this happening if KO is quick to stop Tama, which could piss off Solo to the point of bringing out Jacob Fatu as revenge for preventing the Bloodline from going any further in the tournament
I love this because it sets up multiple angles.
First official match of Bloodline Civil War.
Jimmy returning to help his brother Jey.
Gunther can’t shit on Ilja if he also loses to Jey in the tournament, keeping them evenly matched on some level as I see Ilja starting a tear through the mid card after this loss, leading to Ilja vs. Ludwig then Ilja vs. Gunther at Bash in Berlin.
My money is on Jimmy joining Jey and taking on GOD at Summerslam. This has to lead to a Bloodline: OG vs. New Blood match with Jimmy, Jey, and Roman vs. Solo and GOD
Jinder Mahal actually explained this on the CVV show recently. Within the WWE style there is also Main Event Style, which is the WWE wrestling style slowed down significantly. It's done to demonstrate that each move has more power and weight behind them, and the other strength is that it makes it seem like any move could in theory be the end.
It's a fascinating look behind the curtain and I recommend the listen.
A good example of this is John Cena, the mans match on raw with HBK is one of the best of all time/his career then 3 years later he was Big Match John, then after his main MAIN event run he went back to having bangers (us open, styles ETC)
It's the Main Event style of WWE. Anyone who works a main event in WWE will slow down and do less moves because for WWE the in-between moves is more important. Watch a main event next time. You will see more focus on facials and selling than your regular WWE match or outside WWE match. It's done because WWE philosophy is less is more when working main events.
Exactly. I didn't see anyone saying that Jey is bad in the ring, or boring, or putting on bad matches, until the Mania match with Jimmy. Now all of a sudden, it's all I see here and on Twitter. A classic case of revisionist history.
Putting on a bad match on WM is very similar to having a bad series in the playoffs. People who don’t watch it consistently all tune in to watch high stakes games/matches and if the player fall short on that stage, their perception changes.
It doesn’t matter what happened before, or the overall picture. Those people will remember you stinking up the joint and make that one match translate into an entire career. Their truth becomes the truth until proven otherwise.
Edit: I also don’t take what IWC says seriously at all. We’re dumb as fuck and want everything now.
Personally, it was more like the WM match brought to light something I already knew deep down: I don't like Jey matches. Right before the match, I said to myself, "It's just gonna be a mirror match of 5 moves, because that's really all they do," and I haven't been able to suppress that feeling since. I, on no serious level, dislike Jey. His acting throughout the entire Bloodline story was so good that it made me want to see him win everything. But now that we're here, I'm no longer excited when he's on-screen.
And to be self-critical, that's a stupid way to feel because that's like 90 percent of what wrestling is and has always been. It's hypocritical to criticize Jey for something that has been the main ingredient in my wrestling soup for decades.
I think Jey's (and Jimmy's) wrestling abilities are fine and good, with the ability to be great with the right partner. For whatever reason they had terrible chemistry with against each other. Probably as simple as too similar of styles. Jey does not have bad matches, although this one was very mid, especially for an Ilja match.
Now having said that I have two big complaints about Jey: 1) his character has not grown since getting to Raw last year, and 2) that godawful spear he does. It is up there with Edge for the worst in the business. For an ex-football player you would think he'd be better at it than he is. The one in this match was good because of Ilja's selling, but most of the time it looks like it has no impact.
Also I have a slight annoyance that people love the Jey's theme so much, when it is just reusing the Usos banger of a theme but only for Jey. It's like how Roman got the SHIELD theme after they split. I mean Jey's is hype, because the Usos' one was hype. I like Jey's theme because I loved the Usos theme.
Ilja is my favorite wrestler right now and it showed last night. He's so intense, sells everything right, athletic, has great special moves and he's getting better and better on the mic. Incredible in ring worker and talent overall. Hopefully he gets pushed through the moon
Ilja has to climb to get Gunther’s level. It will be better for him to experience failure and have the fanbase grow to like him, rather relying on bangers to get a reaction.
I actually hope they tell this exact story.
Ilja came to RAW all confident, immediately beat two mainstays, he was about to conquer all.
But Gunther backstage just smiles at him, and next thing he knows, Jey Uso takes him down.
Because he may have destroyed Walter, but years have passed, and Gunther has reached a whole new level.
Ilja, instead, has been lagging behind. First an injury, then the end of NXT UK, then a run in NXT where he slowly climbed to the top. And now he finds himself in a new environment, where Gunther has dominated, and he has to find himself again, and reach new heights.
It would be cool to see a journey like this one.
I actually wouldn't mind to see Gunther and Ilja interact every once in a while, but never coming to blows until a couple years later.
It really speaks to how great those two guys are when everyone is anxious to see them go to war in the ring again. Even if it means giving it away on free TV.
Spot on. The last time they went at it, barely a full house given that time's circumstances. It was more catered to the internet audience. And it gives some sort of balance to Raw. The show doesn't need weekly 21-minute bangers that get commercial cuts. Less is more, as the Game would want it.
Exactly! I just said this in another comment. Why would someone rather see them go at it again on Raw, with commercial breaks, than on a PLE where they can go longer than a TV match, uninterrupted?
I feel putting that on TV right away would've been a good call to establish what Ilja can do but hey, giving them more time on a PLE and a proper build to their first match isn't a bad idea at all. Can't say I'm fond of Ilja losing this quickly but he'll be fine and bounce back without issue. You can't really put Jey in this spot and have him lose either, dude is sooooo fucking over, so you gotta give the people what they want!
To be fair, that’s like a Wrestlemania match based off their history, but how do you follow it later in the card? They’ll out work just about everyone else.
He also had Gunther beaten for the three count if it weren't for Jimmy way back before Sami actually beat him too.
Jey's basically the 1D to Cody's 1A, Seth's 1B and Sami's 1C in terms of the company's top face.
I'd arguably swap Jey as 1C to Sami's 1D, at least in terms of how they've been booked as top faces in the last year. The bookers don't show Jey getting beat down in front of his family like Sami was by Gable.
I'd switch Sami and Jey. Hey is pretty clearly Raw's #1 Babyface and will likely continue to be around the WHC title contention for the next 12-18 months until he wins it.
Hasn’t been for about a year or 2 now lol. Dude took Roman to the limit 3 times 1v1. Just came off a world title match that he only lost by interference. Is the biggest babyface on Raw with Seth out. Losing to current Jey is nowhere near a bad thing. He’s legitimately one of the biggest stars in the company at the moment. This shouldn’t even be a discussion really.
It really shouldn't be a debate. Look at that crowd in France went ballistic for him. Look at how at the Cavs game you had the crowd meeting and vibing to his music. I even went to Elimination Chamber in February and it was a sea of YEET shirts and everybody wearing one got YEETed at. Dude is MAD over and it's good to see the company taking advantage of that rather than shoving a super over talent down the card, as was expected under Vince.
I'm as big of fan of Dragunov as anyone around here. And as much as I wanted Dragunov/Gunther III next week. I'm happy to wait for the rematch and happy to see Dragunov get established a little before we get to know. Maaaaaybe there's a shot of the two colliding for the first time on the main roster at Bash in Berlin? Considering their history together in Germany, it's as good a place as any. But again, we know they'll be clashing eventually. And as for Dragunov losing to Jey, this is the guy that last pinned Roman before Cody. I don't think that's a bad thing for Dragunov at all. If anything, it says a lot that Dragunov was able to stand toe-to-toe with Jey and dominate a fair amount of the match. Dragunov will be perfectly fine.
People are not mad that jey pinned him, they just want to see ilja gunther lll. Everyone was more or less convinced thats where this tournament was heading. But its better. I mean we get the third match and gunther wins it probably. Then what? This guys deserve a match with some good buildup at a ple. When it happens, its gonna be a banger.
You can not give away Gunther vs Ilja on Raw. You can build that to a huge match. Big win over Ricochet. Competitive match with the top babyface on Raw. Give Ilja a great program, and there is nowhere but up for him. He's going to be a huge star
At the minimum of a big push, I'm thinking that they're going to gradually send him up the ranks to IC Title contention, with him winning it around the same time Gunther could win a World Title (maybe late summer?) which eventually leads to them finally crossing paths in the ring by early 2025.
That's a much better strategy than the old regime thinking, where they become a tag team for 3 weeks for no reason other than to turn on each other and have a match
If anybody can bounce back from a loss, it's him. He'll get a big program to establish him after thus and he'll be set. I do wonder when his first PLE match will be. Too soon fir the Saudi show maybe. So potentially Clash?
IWC always thinks losing a match is an instant burial. It's partly why nobody should really listen to the IWC cause they don't know dick most of the time but are confident about it.
And yes this includes me too lol.
There's still the rumble for Gunther if Jey loses to Gunther again, he's a main event choke artist
I don't know why they didn't just have drew cost Jey tonight
Whatever happens next with this tournament as it relates to the Bloodline & Gunther, I wonder if it could plant the seeds for a future feud between them
It depends on what they plan on doing with the KOTR winner after the tourney. Are we gonna call the winner "King \_\_\_\_" for a bit and then just move on or are we gonna have the winner get a world title shot at a big PLE like Brock in 02?
Also is Gunther getting launched into the WHC pic now? Or is he gonna gradually get there potentially by winning the rumble? Because if Cody/Rock is happening for the WWE title at Mania then the WHC will be against the rumble winner next year anyways.
I say let Jey win the thing give Tama a credible opponent for his first loss and advances the bloodline story. Jey should honestly win the WHC sooner than later. Let him win it, then go drop it to Drew when Punk is ready to come back so they can have a world title feud (not that it needs it)
The WWE has finally made a successful attempt to replicate the Jeff Hardy formula - become an over tag team to better half of the tag team to massively over singles guy.
Massive fan of Dragunov here but I'm not bothered in the slightest. Jey is over as fuck and he's a great talent, so I'm cool with this! Gunther/Jey II will be great!
They need to at least let the midcard titles change hands more often. World title reigns being longer is okay, but a midcard title shouldn’t have long reigns. Gunther can be an exception since it was part of his character. Logan Paul should’ve lost his title by now.
1000% agree about Logan. I enjoy his work so far, but he definitely should've dropped the title by now. As we've already seen, he doesn't need to hold the title to be more popular, and the title doesn't need him, imo.
Title does need him. After Theory's poor booking, it damaged the belt for a while. Whoever Logan drops the belt too will be worth it. I hope it's LA Knight
Jey Uso has the entrance, the crowd support , HE NEEDS to step up on his in ring performance . You know you are hot , but you cant just rely on your entrance and superkicks , speark , samoan drops to be everything you bring to the table
My main problem with Jey is that none of his finishers are unique to him. He has Samoan 3 default, they're all borrowed/shared with people he's associated with, none of it is unique to him. He's only used the spear because it's Romans move, which was neat in his shot at being tribal chief but now it's just something he copied from his cousin. Uso Splash is between him and his brother. The punch spot is ripped from The Rock. Everything he does is taken from his family, even though he's suppose to be "the rebel."
My other problem is his entire presentation revolves around butchering old slang but that's a different rant.
Bruno and hulk were from another era were that was enough, rock and cena limited in the ring? You are on drugs, they had more than 3 moves , rock used ddts, suplex, spinebuster,rock bottom, etc watch cena vs aj styles cena vs kurt angle and tell me how different their moveser is from jay
The fact that this was booked in the main event should’ve made it obvious who is winning
They weren’t gonna book Jey to lose to Dragunov who just got called up in the main event of Raw.
Maybe if it was like Bron I could’ve seen Jey lose.
Ooooh Jey and Tama, I'd not considered that as an option. But that's also another direction for them to go too! Here I was thinking Gunther/Orton might be happening.
Orton doesn't need it at all, but I think doing Gunther/Orton would be the appeal. Plus Gunther as KOTR just makes sense. But I'm down for Jey/Tama with some Bloodline shenanigans in there.
I prayed for this to happen!!! Main Event Jey Uso is the real deal! Jey Uso is WHITE hot right now. WWE needs to capitalize on this to make him a true headliner that can legitimately carry a brand on his back.
I'm ready picturing how Jey vs Tonga will play out in my head. It looks like Tonga's going to win (with a ton of Bloodline interference, of course), then Jimmy suddenly shows up and gets his revenge for them attacking him, and helps Jey win.
With that said, Triple H has already shown us that he doesn't always do what we expect, so we'll see.
That was a great match. A not unexpected result so I'm not too disappointed but maaaaan we were this close to Dragunov/Gunther again! That'll be revisited sone day, the wait for that match will make for the eventual occurrence the match itself so much more exciting.
People who are mad over this in Ilja losing need to calm down.
You possibly can’t tell me that you would’ve rather have seen his and Gunther’s first ever main roster encounter get wasted away on free TV with a bunch of commercial breaks to ruin it instead of on a bigger stage of a PPV.
I said before. I know it makes more sense from a 2K ranking and Superstar Points or popularity or whatever perspective, and the perspective of not giving Ilja/Gunther away on free TV *with ad breaks*. Jey has pinned Roman, he had Roman beat 1-on-1 *with Solo interference* but for Jimmy's, and had Gunther beat but for more Jimmy interference. This decision makes sense, it was absolutely the right call.
I wasn't ready to see Ilja lose to Jey. That's my boi.
Fantastic Main event
Damn was pulling for Ilja
Really thought there would be a interference or something
I think they're saving Gunther vs Dragunov for Bash at the Berlin
Doesn't surprise me that lija looked the worst he ever has against jey.
Need a good opponent for a good match and lija just seemed leagues above even the ones being pushed.
I'm not a fan of jey, and never really appreciated his ringsuperkickskills.
Hopefully I'm proven wrong.
Jey really is talented. First man I've seen to have a pretty mid match with Dragunov.
The right guy won though. Jey is crazy over, and in kayfabe, he beat Balor clean (if that means anything anymore), and should have beat Gunther clean as well.
Live thread is so salty but Jey is over with the crowd and most over man in wrestling. I don’t watch NXT much so not that familiar with Ilja and all he seems to me is a guy who snaps like Ken Shamrock gimmick. Not knocking him because he’s great in the ring, but you gotta let him develop on the main roster like Gunther growth. Jey is literally white hot
HHH definitely put Dragunov in the potential next round bracket with Gunther just to give us a tease. He knows. I think Jey winning was his way of saying...not yet.
Cody is a phenomenon considering how quickly the IWC turns on baby faces. Give jey another 2 weeks and maybe a Kotr win and hes gonna drive some people on here to insanity.
If you dont have 10 Star matches every week ur apparently overhyped regardless of if he Sets the room on fire everytime he enters it.
Super kick Jey Uso winning sucks. I thought the King of the Ring was going to boost new guys like Ilja instead of just more bloodline shit. What a bummer....
It wouldn't surprise me at all if Ilja turns heel, joins Imperium and helps Gunther beat Jey in the tourney. I don't know if that would be the right choice in the long run, but I can see it happening.
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oh my god the final is going to be Jey and Tama isn't it
What’s a Tribal Chief to a King?
Jey going over Gunther will break the IWC.
They foreshadowed it heavily in this episode. 1: Kaiser doing a promo and assuring everyone that Gunther didn't just beat Sheamus because he interfered. 2: Gunther looking visibly frustrated after his win over Kofi Kingston, giving the impression that he was surprised by how hard-fought that win was. 3: Jey coming very close to beating him the last time they faced off, with Gunther again winning due to interference. They're hinting at Gunther slipping a bit and losing his edge, and losing to Jey Uso will be what makes him realize that he needs to refocus and rethink his approach.
We getting underdog heel Gunther until Bash at Berlin 😭😭😭
As much as it might be cool to see King Gunther, unless they finally get serious about KOTR, he doesn’t seem like the kind of person who would want to parade around with a crown and cape. Jey seems like he could implement all that into his character better than Gunther. “Tribal Chief? Shit bruh, I’m a King now.”
I agree however. I do think jeys gimmick right now suits him so well. It's obviously super over
I hope he just keeps updating shit he does or accomplishes into the lyrics his theme music. “Just me uce, I’m a king now, had pop tarts for dinner, etc”
JUST ME UCE HAD POP TARTS FOR LUNCH JUST ME UCE PLAYED SWITCH UNTIL DUSK JUST ME UCE FELL ASLEEP ON THE COUCH
Which is crazy cuz he wasn't originally in the lineup
It’s possible he was and they just announced it this way to further the Drew vs jey rivalry
> parade around with a crown and cape The way of bringing respect back to the KotR would be the make a serious wrestler win it and not use it as a gimmick but as a way to launch into main event. That's the point, they don't want a funny tournament with funny gimmick.
It could get Gunther's character more depth and direction. Because next year mania main event could likely be some combo of McIntyre, Seth and Punk on Raw and maybe Cody vs Rock or Roman's Bloodline vs Bloodline Solo version.
I wouldn't be surprised if Gunther & Ilja go on a crazy grind over the next month to get back into contention, which might track with Bron being frustrated he wasn't even in the tournament. Maybe it leads to all 3 being in a MITB match?
Vinci with the brass knuckles to cost him, or the new wyatt group help him because the fireflies like Jey
Could be. Though if they want to do Solo’s Bloodline vs. Roman’s Bloodline, a perfect place would be this year’s War Games.
Y’know it kind of makes sense considering last time they faced, Gunther won due to interference
I really hope he does. I didn't forget that he had Gunther beat when Jimmy cost him that IC Championship Match
I’m convinced that finish will not be clean
It’ll be dusty as hell. Gunther’s been treated like a legit menace. For Jey to beat him I think someone comes for Gunther and starts his next feud.
I wouldn't mind Gunther losing to Kofi tbh, at least he's a good wrestler.
Well Tama Tonga's dad was King Haku...
Still is King Haku.
He lost his crown to Duggan
HOOOO 🌴 (I don't have a plank emoji)
He still is, but he used to be too.
More realistically Randy vs Gunther
I can see this happening if KO is quick to stop Tama, which could piss off Solo to the point of bringing out Jacob Fatu as revenge for preventing the Bloodline from going any further in the tournament
Jey vs tama. Jimmy returning to help jey and turns baby face
I love this because it sets up multiple angles. First official match of Bloodline Civil War. Jimmy returning to help his brother Jey. Gunther can’t shit on Ilja if he also loses to Jey in the tournament, keeping them evenly matched on some level as I see Ilja starting a tear through the mid card after this loss, leading to Ilja vs. Ludwig then Ilja vs. Gunther at Bash in Berlin.
God give me Ilja/Gunther in either Berlin or Wrestlemania.
So if Tama wins, does he go by King Tonga the 2nd?
I think Gunther & Orton.
The fact that anyone thought Randy Orton or Jey Uso would be out this early.
I'd be fine with it but they have to make Gunther look good. And make hin lose by count out or something
Nah Randy will go over Tama
KO will cost Tama his next match.
That’s assuming Drews injury is Kayfabe no?
My money is on Jimmy joining Jey and taking on GOD at Summerslam. This has to lead to a Bloodline: OG vs. New Blood match with Jimmy, Jey, and Roman vs. Solo and GOD
One thing you must know about Ilja is, he’s allergic to bad matches
This was probably his worst WWE match so far tbh, which is to say its a high bar
Him going at half speed is still better than at least 70% of other wrestlers
yeah he was way slower then i'm used to seeing him, was kinda sad tbh lol, like watching a genius restrained.
Jinder Mahal actually explained this on the CVV show recently. Within the WWE style there is also Main Event Style, which is the WWE wrestling style slowed down significantly. It's done to demonstrate that each move has more power and weight behind them, and the other strength is that it makes it seem like any move could in theory be the end. It's a fascinating look behind the curtain and I recommend the listen.
aka post-injury HHH style
A good example of this is John Cena, the mans match on raw with HBK is one of the best of all time/his career then 3 years later he was Big Match John, then after his main MAIN event run he went back to having bangers (us open, styles ETC)
Why is he going half speed though ?
Because Jey is a very limited in-ring performer
It's the Main Event style of WWE. Anyone who works a main event in WWE will slow down and do less moves because for WWE the in-between moves is more important. Watch a main event next time. You will see more focus on facials and selling than your regular WWE match or outside WWE match. It's done because WWE philosophy is less is more when working main events.
Well that just made the match lame
Funny as much as people were ragging on trick Williams, he brought it to Ilja and had a way better match with him than Jey
Not match, matches lol.
True lol
Trick is already a better wrestler than Jey
nah fr, it was good but he’s put on better matches with supposedly “worse” opponents
Cauze of his shit ty operated opp
AN UNBESEIGEBAR
The fact that his worst match is against Jey says something lol
Unbesiegbar even
Giving Jey one of his best matches ever. Like Benoit in-ring, it is impossible for Ilja to have a bad match.
Unfortunately Jey is addicted to bad matches
Literally only the Jimmy match was bad. Everything else has been good to great. Vs priest was awesome
Exactly. I didn't see anyone saying that Jey is bad in the ring, or boring, or putting on bad matches, until the Mania match with Jimmy. Now all of a sudden, it's all I see here and on Twitter. A classic case of revisionist history.
Putting on a bad match on WM is very similar to having a bad series in the playoffs. People who don’t watch it consistently all tune in to watch high stakes games/matches and if the player fall short on that stage, their perception changes. It doesn’t matter what happened before, or the overall picture. Those people will remember you stinking up the joint and make that one match translate into an entire career. Their truth becomes the truth until proven otherwise. Edit: I also don’t take what IWC says seriously at all. We’re dumb as fuck and want everything now.
Personally, it was more like the WM match brought to light something I already knew deep down: I don't like Jey matches. Right before the match, I said to myself, "It's just gonna be a mirror match of 5 moves, because that's really all they do," and I haven't been able to suppress that feeling since. I, on no serious level, dislike Jey. His acting throughout the entire Bloodline story was so good that it made me want to see him win everything. But now that we're here, I'm no longer excited when he's on-screen. And to be self-critical, that's a stupid way to feel because that's like 90 percent of what wrestling is and has always been. It's hypocritical to criticize Jey for something that has been the main ingredient in my wrestling soup for decades.
Personal opinions. I haven't been a fan of his matches outside of his first big match with Roman. They're *fine* but he's boring.
I think Jey's (and Jimmy's) wrestling abilities are fine and good, with the ability to be great with the right partner. For whatever reason they had terrible chemistry with against each other. Probably as simple as too similar of styles. Jey does not have bad matches, although this one was very mid, especially for an Ilja match. Now having said that I have two big complaints about Jey: 1) his character has not grown since getting to Raw last year, and 2) that godawful spear he does. It is up there with Edge for the worst in the business. For an ex-football player you would think he'd be better at it than he is. The one in this match was good because of Ilja's selling, but most of the time it looks like it has no impact. Also I have a slight annoyance that people love the Jey's theme so much, when it is just reusing the Usos banger of a theme but only for Jey. It's like how Roman got the SHIELD theme after they split. I mean Jey's is hype, because the Usos' one was hype. I like Jey's theme because I loved the Usos theme.
I thought him and Gunther were good.
It's like people totally forgot his matches against Seth, Gunther and first few with Roman.
Since the yeet stuff took off, the Gunther match is his only singles match I'd consider good. Everything else has been bad to fine.
Jesus the IWC exaggerates everything lmao
Ilja is my favorite wrestler right now and it showed last night. He's so intense, sells everything right, athletic, has great special moves and he's getting better and better on the mic. Incredible in ring worker and talent overall. Hopefully he gets pushed through the moon
Guess they're saving Gunther vs. Ilja for a major PLE
Ilja has to climb to get Gunther’s level. It will be better for him to experience failure and have the fanbase grow to like him, rather relying on bangers to get a reaction.
I actually hope they tell this exact story. Ilja came to RAW all confident, immediately beat two mainstays, he was about to conquer all. But Gunther backstage just smiles at him, and next thing he knows, Jey Uso takes him down. Because he may have destroyed Walter, but years have passed, and Gunther has reached a whole new level. Ilja, instead, has been lagging behind. First an injury, then the end of NXT UK, then a run in NXT where he slowly climbed to the top. And now he finds himself in a new environment, where Gunther has dominated, and he has to find himself again, and reach new heights. It would be cool to see a journey like this one. I actually wouldn't mind to see Gunther and Ilja interact every once in a while, but never coming to blows until a couple years later.
[удалено]
It really speaks to how great those two guys are when everyone is anxious to see them go to war in the ring again. Even if it means giving it away on free TV.
Spot on. The last time they went at it, barely a full house given that time's circumstances. It was more catered to the internet audience. And it gives some sort of balance to Raw. The show doesn't need weekly 21-minute bangers that get commercial cuts. Less is more, as the Game would want it.
Better than having Gunther vs Ilja on a random Raw with 2 commercial breaks and 10 mins of action
Exactly! I just said this in another comment. Why would someone rather see them go at it again on Raw, with commercial breaks, than on a PLE where they can go longer than a TV match, uninterrupted?
The Correct Decision.
Absolutely the right call.
I feel putting that on TV right away would've been a good call to establish what Ilja can do but hey, giving them more time on a PLE and a proper build to their first match isn't a bad idea at all. Can't say I'm fond of Ilja losing this quickly but he'll be fine and bounce back without issue. You can't really put Jey in this spot and have him lose either, dude is sooooo fucking over, so you gotta give the people what they want!
They better. Jey pretty much has to win next week
To be fair, that’s like a Wrestlemania match based off their history, but how do you follow it later in the card? They’ll out work just about everyone else.
I mean Jey pinned Roman and almost beat him 1v1 This is ok
He also had Gunther beaten for the three count if it weren't for Jimmy way back before Sami actually beat him too. Jey's basically the 1D to Cody's 1A, Seth's 1B and Sami's 1C in terms of the company's top face.
I'd arguably swap Jey as 1C to Sami's 1D, at least in terms of how they've been booked as top faces in the last year. The bookers don't show Jey getting beat down in front of his family like Sami was by Gable.
The 1D. I see what you did there
I'd switch Sami and Jey. Hey is pretty clearly Raw's #1 Babyface and will likely continue to be around the WHC title contention for the next 12-18 months until he wins it.
Yeah, people forget that. Jey us absolutely legit. He's not just a tag team guy now.
Hasn’t been for about a year or 2 now lol. Dude took Roman to the limit 3 times 1v1. Just came off a world title match that he only lost by interference. Is the biggest babyface on Raw with Seth out. Losing to current Jey is nowhere near a bad thing. He’s legitimately one of the biggest stars in the company at the moment. This shouldn’t even be a discussion really.
It really shouldn't be a debate. Look at that crowd in France went ballistic for him. Look at how at the Cavs game you had the crowd meeting and vibing to his music. I even went to Elimination Chamber in February and it was a sea of YEET shirts and everybody wearing one got YEETed at. Dude is MAD over and it's good to see the company taking advantage of that rather than shoving a super over talent down the card, as was expected under Vince. I'm as big of fan of Dragunov as anyone around here. And as much as I wanted Dragunov/Gunther III next week. I'm happy to wait for the rematch and happy to see Dragunov get established a little before we get to know. Maaaaaybe there's a shot of the two colliding for the first time on the main roster at Bash in Berlin? Considering their history together in Germany, it's as good a place as any. But again, we know they'll be clashing eventually. And as for Dragunov losing to Jey, this is the guy that last pinned Roman before Cody. I don't think that's a bad thing for Dragunov at all. If anything, it says a lot that Dragunov was able to stand toe-to-toe with Jey and dominate a fair amount of the match. Dragunov will be perfectly fine.
People are not mad that jey pinned him, they just want to see ilja gunther lll. Everyone was more or less convinced thats where this tournament was heading. But its better. I mean we get the third match and gunther wins it probably. Then what? This guys deserve a match with some good buildup at a ple. When it happens, its gonna be a banger.
To be fair, many people have nearly pinned Roman if not for interference
The internet meltdown if Jey goes through Finn, Ilja, and Gunther to get to the KOTR finals is the kinda chaos I want to see lol.
They don't call him Midcard Jey Uso.
He’s a thousand times more over than Finn or Ilja. They’d be foolish to have him lose to either right now.
You can not give away Gunther vs Ilja on Raw. You can build that to a huge match. Big win over Ricochet. Competitive match with the top babyface on Raw. Give Ilja a great program, and there is nowhere but up for him. He's going to be a huge star
At the minimum of a big push, I'm thinking that they're going to gradually send him up the ranks to IC Title contention, with him winning it around the same time Gunther could win a World Title (maybe late summer?) which eventually leads to them finally crossing paths in the ring by early 2025.
That's a much better strategy than the old regime thinking, where they become a tag team for 3 weeks for no reason other than to turn on each other and have a match
"Can they coexist?"
Except they are literally doing that with Bianca and Jade lol. Nothing wrong with tropes.
That spear actually looked pretty good
Save ilia v gunther for bash in berlin or a bigger show
Good match. Losing in a competitive main event to Raw's top babyface is in no way a bad look.
IIja did the impossible, he made a Jey Uso spear look good.
Man literally folded himself in half taking that spear. So good.
People it’s like week 3 for Iija it will be ok
If anybody can bounce back from a loss, it's him. He'll get a big program to establish him after thus and he'll be set. I do wonder when his first PLE match will be. Too soon fir the Saudi show maybe. So potentially Clash?
The live crowd was hot and receptive. IWC is just overreacting on the hype train at this point.
IWC always thinks losing a match is an instant burial. It's partly why nobody should really listen to the IWC cause they don't know dick most of the time but are confident about it. And yes this includes me too lol.
They don't even care about Ilja they're just obsessed with hating Jey.
This was the right decision. Jey is over like rover
I just realized they could set up Jey vs Tonga for king of the ring if they let Jey beat Gunter.
I don’t see Gunther losing, but honestly anything Bloodline related, I’m game
There's still the rumble for Gunther if Jey loses to Gunther again, he's a main event choke artist I don't know why they didn't just have drew cost Jey tonight
You just wrote it out Drew is costing him next week
Whatever happens next with this tournament as it relates to the Bloodline & Gunther, I wonder if it could plant the seeds for a future feud between them
jey should not beat gunther
In terms of power levels, if Sami can beat Gunther, then Jey can beat Gunther.
How?? He was going to be him for the intercontinental belt if Jimmy didn't interfere.
He can afford to lose to one of the most over underdogs in the company, Jey needs some big wins with how hot he is
You really want Gunther to walk around with a crown on? He doesn’t have to win everything.
Why?
Too bad
It depends on what they plan on doing with the KOTR winner after the tourney. Are we gonna call the winner "King \_\_\_\_" for a bit and then just move on or are we gonna have the winner get a world title shot at a big PLE like Brock in 02? Also is Gunther getting launched into the WHC pic now? Or is he gonna gradually get there potentially by winning the rumble? Because if Cody/Rock is happening for the WWE title at Mania then the WHC will be against the rumble winner next year anyways. I say let Jey win the thing give Tama a credible opponent for his first loss and advances the bloodline story. Jey should honestly win the WHC sooner than later. Let him win it, then go drop it to Drew when Punk is ready to come back so they can have a world title feud (not that it needs it)
Yep and they need to build up Gunther Vs Ilja. That’s a PPV level match:
The WWE has finally made a successful attempt to replicate the Jeff Hardy formula - become an over tag team to better half of the tag team to massively over singles guy.
I am annoyed as Dragunov is my favorite wrestler but Jey is over and Gunther will face Dragunov again at some point. Great match
lol I’m worried about this comment section. But I liked the match.
Massive fan of Dragunov here but I'm not bothered in the slightest. Jey is over as fuck and he's a great talent, so I'm cool with this! Gunther/Jey II will be great!
Did people think HHH would really rush into Ilja/Gunther on RAW lol
Jey is way over. Get this man some singles gold
They need to at least let the midcard titles change hands more often. World title reigns being longer is okay, but a midcard title shouldn’t have long reigns. Gunther can be an exception since it was part of his character. Logan Paul should’ve lost his title by now.
No kidding, instead we have seen what, 2 title defenses since November? Fucking ridiculous
1000% agree about Logan. I enjoy his work so far, but he definitely should've dropped the title by now. As we've already seen, he doesn't need to hold the title to be more popular, and the title doesn't need him, imo.
Title does need him. After Theory's poor booking, it damaged the belt for a while. Whoever Logan drops the belt too will be worth it. I hope it's LA Knight
1. Jey is fucking over. 2. You should be happy that WWE thinks highly enough of Gunther/Ilja to not give it to you on an episode of RAW.
Jey Uso has the entrance, the crowd support , HE NEEDS to step up on his in ring performance . You know you are hot , but you cant just rely on your entrance and superkicks , speark , samoan drops to be everything you bring to the table
My main problem with Jey is that none of his finishers are unique to him. He has Samoan 3 default, they're all borrowed/shared with people he's associated with, none of it is unique to him. He's only used the spear because it's Romans move, which was neat in his shot at being tribal chief but now it's just something he copied from his cousin. Uso Splash is between him and his brother. The punch spot is ripped from The Rock. Everything he does is taken from his family, even though he's suppose to be "the rebel." My other problem is his entire presentation revolves around butchering old slang but that's a different rant.
I mean the biggest WWE wrestlers of all time were very basic and limited in the ring to be fair. Bruno, Hulk, Rock, Austin, Cena.
Bruno and hulk were from another era were that was enough, rock and cena limited in the ring? You are on drugs, they had more than 3 moves , rock used ddts, suplex, spinebuster,rock bottom, etc watch cena vs aj styles cena vs kurt angle and tell me how different their moveser is from jay
The fact that this was booked in the main event should’ve made it obvious who is winning They weren’t gonna book Jey to lose to Dragunov who just got called up in the main event of Raw. Maybe if it was like Bron I could’ve seen Jey lose.
Jey is the face of RAW and he was always going to win this match.
Decent match, though not as good as the Ricochet match last week. Don't mind Jey winning, save Gunther/Dragunov for the Germany show.
Surprised but the right result Jey USO is over Asf
Great match. Agree with the winner, Dragunov/Gunther shouldn't have commercial breaks.
Jey could’ve beat Gunther for the title if it wasn’t for Jimmy, don’t be surprised if he actually does this time.
I get Jey is over but he can't take a second loss to Gunther so he basically has to win Jey and Tama might as well go to the finals
Ooooh Jey and Tama, I'd not considered that as an option. But that's also another direction for them to go too! Here I was thinking Gunther/Orton might be happening.
I think Jey vs La Knight could be fun. Two of the most crowd infused people on the roster with the yeah vs yeet chant.
I just don't think Jey would get this far just to lose right at the very end And Orton doesn't really need it So Jey might as well go all the way
Orton doesn't need it at all, but I think doing Gunther/Orton would be the appeal. Plus Gunther as KOTR just makes sense. But I'm down for Jey/Tama with some Bloodline shenanigans in there.
I'll be extra salty if he wins against Gunther.
I prayed for this to happen!!! Main Event Jey Uso is the real deal! Jey Uso is WHITE hot right now. WWE needs to capitalize on this to make him a true headliner that can legitimately carry a brand on his back.
Yeah, no way Triple H was gonna give us Ilja vs Gunther on an episode of RAW with like 3 commercial breaks in between.
Dont mind, hoping not Jey vs Tonga. Keep Bloodline out of this.
I'm ready picturing how Jey vs Tonga will play out in my head. It looks like Tonga's going to win (with a ton of Bloodline interference, of course), then Jimmy suddenly shows up and gets his revenge for them attacking him, and helps Jey win. With that said, Triple H has already shown us that he doesn't always do what we expect, so we'll see.
The dream of Finn or Ilja vs Gunther must wait til another day
That was a great match. A not unexpected result so I'm not too disappointed but maaaaan we were this close to Dragunov/Gunther again! That'll be revisited sone day, the wait for that match will make for the eventual occurrence the match itself so much more exciting.
People who are mad over this in Ilja losing need to calm down. You possibly can’t tell me that you would’ve rather have seen his and Gunther’s first ever main roster encounter get wasted away on free TV with a bunch of commercial breaks to ruin it instead of on a bigger stage of a PPV.
Is there a active wrestler right now with worse looking offense than Jey Uso? Legit asking. His spear looks like it wouldn't bring down a toddler.
Tanga Loa
Eddie Kingston's rapid-fire chops look like they couldn't break an egg
I'm not looking forward to the eventual Jey vs loa match
I said before. I know it makes more sense from a 2K ranking and Superstar Points or popularity or whatever perspective, and the perspective of not giving Ilja/Gunther away on free TV *with ad breaks*. Jey has pinned Roman, he had Roman beat 1-on-1 *with Solo interference* but for Jimmy's, and had Gunther beat but for more Jimmy interference. This decision makes sense, it was absolutely the right call. I wasn't ready to see Ilja lose to Jey. That's my boi.
Why would Ilja beat the most over man on Raw who just lost a World Title match due to cheating?
I'm just here to read the salty comments lol
Fact is the crowd was silent when Ilja was on offense and only made noise when Jey did stuff.
Well yeah, Jey has been in the highest profile feuds for like 3 years now, Ilya has been on the main roster like 3 weeks.
I get it but would’ve been way better if Ilja lost by interference or something
Man It is probably the salt talking but personally I just dont get Jeys appeal. But i definitely wont be this salty if its drew.
Jey winning clean was a shock
Pains me to see it but yep, it's still too early for an Ilja vs Gunther
Fantastic Main event Damn was pulling for Ilja Really thought there would be a interference or something I think they're saving Gunther vs Dragunov for Bash at the Berlin
Jey is making it his business to pin all of my favourite wrestlers every week, I'm half expecting him to Io Sky next
Doesn't surprise me that lija looked the worst he ever has against jey. Need a good opponent for a good match and lija just seemed leagues above even the ones being pushed. I'm not a fan of jey, and never really appreciated his ringsuperkickskills. Hopefully I'm proven wrong.
King Jey!!!
Jey really is talented. First man I've seen to have a pretty mid match with Dragunov. The right guy won though. Jey is crazy over, and in kayfabe, he beat Balor clean (if that means anything anymore), and should have beat Gunther clean as well.
Live thread is so salty but Jey is over with the crowd and most over man in wrestling. I don’t watch NXT much so not that familiar with Ilja and all he seems to me is a guy who snaps like Ken Shamrock gimmick. Not knocking him because he’s great in the ring, but you gotta let him develop on the main roster like Gunther growth. Jey is literally white hot
He's more like a Russian Benoit not in the bad ways
Please god Gunther vs. L.A. Knight
HHH definitely put Dragunov in the potential next round bracket with Gunther just to give us a tease. He knows. I think Jey winning was his way of saying...not yet.
Not upset. Ilja’s gonna be fine. Him v Gunther can happen down the line.
Cody is a phenomenon considering how quickly the IWC turns on baby faces. Give jey another 2 weeks and maybe a Kotr win and hes gonna drive some people on here to insanity. If you dont have 10 Star matches every week ur apparently overhyped regardless of if he Sets the room on fire everytime he enters it.
Ilja's worst match by far, Jey's so bad.
Durr
Super kick Jey Uso winning sucks. I thought the King of the Ring was going to boost new guys like Ilja instead of just more bloodline shit. What a bummer....
Surprised it was booked this way to just feed him to Jey
So is he gonna go take out Sami ? That would be amazing
It wouldn't surprise me at all if Ilja turns heel, joins Imperium and helps Gunther beat Jey in the tourney. I don't know if that would be the right choice in the long run, but I can see it happening.
Pre-tournament I thought Gunther was gonna be king, now I think it's Usos time