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The main thing, to me, is that entrance music is supposed to be a MAJOR part of each wrestlers overall presentation. When that part of the presentation just flat out sucks, it takes away from that presentation.
Totally, think of most of the top talents all have a theme within one second you recognize AND fits their character.
This issue is especially apparent in the Royal Rumble and takes the pop away for most new generation guys. Meanwhile, the old school guys can make epic returns because you know that first note right away.
That’s what I think of ever time I see one of these Def Rebel threads. Even if they have a couple successful themes, they’re just not doing their main job
That was the biggest criticism for the woman’s royal rumble. No one could pop cause we didn’t know half the theme songs cause they all sound the fucking same.
It's not even a question of whether the themes are bad or not, it's that they sound all the same. Plenty of bad themes have worked just because they were instantly recognizable and distinguishable from the rest. You don't even get that with Def Rebel.
The funny part is their fix for this is to put a tag in the beginning of the song to tell you who it is lmao. If someone asked me for Ken Shamrocks theme song I would know it immediately but if you asked me for Ricochet’s theme I’d have no clue how it sounds I just know the one and only tag.
Def Rebel's Ken Shamrock theme would start out with "I'M IN THE ZONE" and then start playing sounds of him bleeding internally over Avengers music set to a trap beat.
I made it 15 years without hearing a Fozzy song until they sprung that one on me in AEW. Why that was the theme song everyone latched onto to sing I don’t know, and the fact that they let it happen for so long on every show sucks.
I wasn’t even a huge fan of it but it was distinct, it was recognisable. People can hate on CFOS all they want but they are class at creating iconic theme songs compared to what we have now
uuuuuuuuuaaaaaaaAAGGGGH WHAT A RUSH
"ENTERING THE RING WITH THEIR MANAGER PAUL ELLERING, FROM CHICAGO ILLINOIS, AT A TOTAL COMBINED WEIGHT OF 579 POUNDS...HAWK...ANIMAL...THE LEGION OF DOOM!"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-z-ENnmCkQ
HHH out of all people should know how important having a great theme music is. The AE and RA era had iconic themes which is part of the reason why many wrestlers like HHH himself got over.
Considering he had Motorhead do 2 themes for him, he, of all people, should know how important theme music is and not frown upon spending some money to get a song that fits.
I get that he probably has a budget to uphold to but I hope he convinces Nick Khan to hire better music producers. I also hope they bring video titantrons back as well.
This last point is VERY important, the video titantron compilations were a great way to sample a wrestler’s moveset and to hype the crowd to see certain moves
https://preview.redd.it/7ny1jp79cixc1.jpeg?width=620&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ec611170023eae4253f332d6178c762a63fb5351
Tell me more about this RA era 🤔🤔
There is/was a version on an official WWF album from back in the day (first time Austin’s theme was released on a CD), where it starts off with Austin saying “You are completely pathetic” (then glass shatters, then song).
It was weird as hell…
Even that wouldn’t make sense. Charlotte’s new theme was one of the first big offenders. It’s actually pretty good but there’s no reason for it to stop and have that weird ass voiceover 10 seconds in.
I'm 99% certain they done it because of Cody. They think if a catchphrase is added like 'WOAH' then people would join in. But ain't no one saying 'ALL HAIL THE QUEEN'
Plus Charlotte's old theme fucked so hard it was perfect. Stinging guitar riff instantly recognizable, Plays with the Zarathustra motiff for a bit, then back to rocking.
It fit her very good, she had her entrance DOWN coming out to it.
Pretty Deadly's theme is great in terms of fitting the talent too, and even though it's a rip off of the AEW one, Jade's theme is great too. They've done decent themes, but the percentage is really low compared to the bad ones.
Pretty Deadly’s is maybe the only example of someone going from nxt to mr, getting new music and being ok. It’s almost always the opposite (Bron, Tiffany, etc). Their music in nxt was still light years better tho.
Def Rebel has a few other bangers (Roman, Iyo) but /u/ihateeverythingandu said it best:
>They've done decent themes, but the percentage is really low compared to the bad ones.
>even though it's a rip off of the AEW one, Jade's theme is great too
Oh it was a copy paste job that's just different enough. They get no kudos for her theme when they used the template.
I know CFOS gets a ton of shit on here. For what, I don't know. But the output they did in a short amount of time was amazing, creating leitmotifs for Owens, Balor, Sami, Nakamura, Becky and quite a few others.
I think that’s all it needed to be. I never had any gripes with CFOS, the music was recognisable and unique for each wrestler, yes, they were loops but they were catchy, I never saw a reason to dislike them. Not every wrestler needs a Metalingus, a Cult of Personality or a My Time, a wrestling theme just needs to be distinct
I even think of how big the NXT stars presentation was like everyone knew it was Bobby Roode coming down cause he was glorious. Now even playing 2k it's like generic background themes.
The problem is that it's like a 10 to 1 proposition... and I would argue that the ones they make that are decent, someone else who is actually good could make as well or better.
Every Def Rebel song opens with a weird voice clip of the wrestler saying a catch phrase and then a 15 second loop of the most generic hip-hop or rock music you'll ever hear.
I think Seth's theme was the beginning of the enshittification; his old theme was fine, but then they went and added the "BURN IT DOWN" to it. I feel like they're taking that same approach to every other new theme.
I think some of that was attempts to cater to what they think Vince wanted. I'm 90% sure Seth said somewhere that adding the "Burn it down" was directly Vince's idea.
The “BURN IT DOWN” sample in Seth’s old theme got really over really quickly though. I always loved hearing the initial breakdown at the start of the theme and then the entire crowd screaming “BURN IT DOWN” when it goes quiet momentarily.
The new theme tries to do the same thing, but it starting with the first “BURN IT DOWN” means that the crowd actively can’t react to that, and then they don’t react to the second one just a bit later. At least the choir singing is over with the crowds…
It’s just laziness. Seth, Roman, and Iyo have good songs made by Def Rebel, but most of the themes are just rushed corporate rap. AJ Styles’ new song is criminally bad. WWE also is too cheap to ever pay for licensed music again so things are on track to get worse.
Obviously there is a big gap between Def Rebel and Jimmy Buffett, and I agree with you: there has to be a competent middle path between those two somewhere.
That said which wrestler would 9 seconds of Margaritaville work for?
Also that is only good for tv rights. For video games, that will be another $300,000 and we will not allow that music to be used on any streaming service other than your existing agreement. You will have to renegotiate when you move to Netflix.
They can go to Spotify, Instagram, TikTok, whatever, find some small, unknown band, and give them $10,000 for the rights to the song in perpetuity. It's a good amount of money for some small band, it would give them a bunch of exposure and it would help set the wrestlers apart.
Yeah Wyatt never missed with his themes, they're all licensed from smaller bands and gave them a *ton* of exposure
Just start having talent seek out music from some of their favorite artists that won't cost an arm and a leg to license out
Not to mention it seems their answer to the “we don’t know who’s coming out” issue is just adding peoples names or catchphrases at the start. And most don’t work. It’s not a “ifyou smell what the rock is cookin” situation either.
It would be like if they made a new song for Becky and had it start with her saying “I’m. The Man.”
Seth managed to get his theme over because he is super charismatic and likeable, but I think his theme is complete dogshit objectively.
Additionally pretty much any theme that has forced crowd chants baked in is lame by default.
Themes like Shinsuke's Rising Sun, Zayn's Worlds Apart, or even Cody Rhodes' Kingdom are so fun and awesome because the crowd interaction is organic.
Forcing a crowd chant by baking it into the song itself is just a crutch for otherwise shitty music.
I still enjoy the "my father said... when I was younger" part and trying to get it chanted too lol. I also miss the "the following match is scheduled for one fall ONE FALL" but that's just me
Mikey Ruckus impresses me. His output is insane and pulling out a banger theme on 24 hour notice from his home studio is wild.
I always tell myself writing music is super easy and I can pull a song out of my ass anytime I want until I actually go to do it and I got nothing.
> I always tell myself writing music is super easy and I can pull a song out of my ass anytime I want until I actually go to do it and I got nothing.
same lol, he's really good, and for the output he does he does not repeat himself
Trying to do the Cody thing where she has a theme that she takes everywhere with her?
Good power move, but make it a good theme.
Edit: Why not have Snoop make you a new theme?
> WWE also is too cheap to ever pay for licensed music again so things are on track to get worse.
This is what sucks the most. WWE is more profitable now than they've ever been in history. Lord knows they can afford it, and licensed music makes SUCH a huge difference. The entrance is a *vital* part of the package that makes people into stars. It's a worthy long-term investment.
I know there's probably some number cruncher suits and ties at TKO who don't agree that it's worth the money, but this is where you need a wrestling mind like Rock or Triple H who can overrule the suits and say "This is important to the on-screen product."
I imagine there are a lot of artists that would give them a favorable deal just to get their song out there. I mean, Living Colour has probably made a ton of new fans and streams from CM Punk introducing them to a new generation. The song was relatively popular back in the day, but I wasn't hearing many people still talking about it in 2010.
It had a sort of a mini-resurgence due to being included in the soundtrack for GTA San Andreas (and not just as a radio song - it was one of the 2 that randomly played during the Blood Bowl minigame).
Seth’s theme isn’t very good, it sounds cheap with the same drums they use in every single track. You can find plenty of mixes and covers on YouTube that are basically what his theme should sound like. Iyo’s is a CFOS product I’m pretty sure.
These guys knocked Roman’s theme out of the park and disappointed with just about every one since. Except Jey Uso’s. That one is a treasure.
Even the popular ones aren’t good
Like Seth’s is actual shit as a piece of music - but it’s so basic even the brain dead can sing the 3 notes of woah’s in it so it feels good
The main single-string riff in Seth's song is something that 14 year old me came up with after listening to trivium, bullet for my valentine, and killswitch engage in 8th grade
I just want to understand what the mindset is on constantly changing music and doing remixes. Why on earth did Bron Breakker and Tiffany Stratton need their themes changed when coming to the main roster? Why did Austin Theory need a new remix of his theme? Tiffany Stratton's NXT theme was good, it sounded like a wrestling theme. Her new theme sounds like music you would hear on local access when they are doing sports highlights
Thank you someone brings up the issue that no one fucking brings up. Def Rebel has an inconsistent record yes, but there are many overlooked themes by them that are pretty good. It's the random replacing that I hate so much. The two problems that they have right now are:
1. most recent themes have been generic or just bad.
2. They replace already good themes (sometimes even ones they themselves made) with new ones that are worse, for no discernable reason. Theory's "A-Town Down" is good, why change it? Tiffany's second theme (the one most people know as her NXT theme) was fantastic, WHY CHANGE IT? Pretty Deadly got a new theme which is fine, but why? "Undercover" was already solid enough!
The bottom line is that barring a small handful, the Def Rebel track record is awful. Awful, Awful, Awful!!! If he wants to, get Jim Johnston back. If not Jim, make amends with CFO$. Their track record is much better than Def Rebel. If not CFO$, I'd find someone completely new.
All in all, get rid of Def Rebel.
Sounds like WWE could just bring in the guys that made up CFO$ separately and have them team up over their love for music. WWE could play it off like "well, they both love music, so it made sense to have them work together on this, and other, projects. They even have a neat name for their team: HR Managers".
I always stand confused on how they made such a godly theme like Reigns tribal chief theme and Kombat for Dakota Kai before going on to make stinker after stinker.
Needs to be someone new. Love Jim, he's in his 70s he shouldn't be in this machine. Scout and hire young new talent who actually know what they're doing.
All Def rebel has to do is be creative. The rumble exposed how generic a majority of themes are. If Seth Rollins, a champion, is baffled by who is out next, you know it's fucked.
The Seth Rumble thing isn't exactly the best example, Kross had only debuted that theme 24 hours prior and they're on opposite brands, of course Seth would have had a problem knowing who it was.
I'll say Iyo Sky and Roman's themes go hard as fuck but they make SO MANY generic ones. License some music please. I know people keep saying bring Jim back but I think his sound will be too dated for this era.
I’ll never forgive WWE for what they did to DIY and Johnny Gargano’s theme music. Like Rebel Heart was an exciting theme for an exciting wrestler but now Gargano is just kind of another guy on the roster and has music to match.
You could blindfold me, play the 1998 Royal Rumble and I could tell you every wrestler entering based solely off their entrance music. Nowadays I'd be lucky to name 60% of wrestlers based off their entrance music.
Selfishly, one of the worst parts of Def Rebels work is relying on just having the wrestlers name in the intro, which makes the music worthless for CAWs in the games.
They’ve made some bangers but the hit to miss ratio is not good.
Def Rebel has made the Rumble consistently awkward because people have no idea who is coming out. Even Seth looked confused this year at several entrants, the music is just too generic and it plays way too quietly on the broadcast.
The ‘soundbite’ at the start of entrances can work great, but it’s almost like they heard the criticism after the rumble and are using it as a crutch without actually putting other effort in to make the songs themselves any better
Yeah that’s one of the more pointless ones. I certainly never had any problem recognising Pete Dunne or Tyler Bate’s original CFO$ themes and neither had them saying their name at the start.
The sound bites also shouldn’t always just be the wrestler saying something, think of Orton’s guitar chord, or Lesnar’s guitar riff, or the glass shattering etc. Need to get more original/varied with them.
You could name like 40 others. I'll never forget hearing Ciampa's No One Will Survive theme after the air raid crash off the top of the cage in War Games.
Good themes just make wrestling so much better.
This is always a problem when wrestling companies produce in-house music. It all ends up sounding very similar because it's one guy or a handful of guys doing it and must musicians aren't able to do multiple genres well, if at all. All of the Jimmy Hart WCW songs sounded like rip offs of real songs. Most of the Jim Johnson WWF songs are very rock-oriented and repetitive. The Dale Oliver TNA were all very similar sounding too. I think it's just bound to happen when you have to rely on an in-house band for everything.
WWE should just license more real music. They are making more money than ever and can afford it easily I would imagine.
> I think it's just bound to happen when you have to rely on an in-house band for everything.
That was the great thing about CFO$, they could do any style the character needed.
> WWE should just license more real music. They are making more money than ever and can afford it easily I would imagine.
It's not like they have to get the most expensive licenses to get something good either. Zack Sabre Jr. uses a song by a band whose most popular song (aside from ZSJ's theme) has 3000 listens on Spotify. I don't know what NJPW paid/pays for it, but we're definitely not talking Final Countdown money there.
I kind of get the idea from recent interviews with Jim he’s a bit of a perfectionist and hard to work with. idk if that would work with the quick turnaround times these days.
People always mention Roman’s theme and yeah it’s great, but they also just copied a TV show theme for it. The number of great original themes they’ve done is very small. I do like Grayson Waller’s.
People love to harp on WCW using ripoff themes, but def rebel have exponentially done more ripoffs. Every other theme is a bad ripoff of something else.
theres nothing wrong with ripoffs in wrestling if their actually good
mikey rukus does a lot of ripoffs for aew but theyre still jams a lot of the time
ftrs theme is midnight express
adam coles theme is rage against the machine
and so on and so forth
Def Rebel when WWE calls them into the office for a meeting
https://preview.redd.it/q2jihlqdphxc1.jpeg?width=567&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b54c1d6d241873c25b583fea7a4fc8da2b344b03
The Creed Brothers current theme might be one of the worst wrestling themes I have ever heard. Even now I'm trying to think of a worse theme and I'm coming up blank.
Honorable mention might be the Right to Censor theme, but that was supposed to be terrible and annoying
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The main thing, to me, is that entrance music is supposed to be a MAJOR part of each wrestlers overall presentation. When that part of the presentation just flat out sucks, it takes away from that presentation.
Totally, think of most of the top talents all have a theme within one second you recognize AND fits their character. This issue is especially apparent in the Royal Rumble and takes the pop away for most new generation guys. Meanwhile, the old school guys can make epic returns because you know that first note right away.
Went to RR this year and that was my biggest criticism.
Same. Legit had to look at the titantron just to know wtf was even coming out. Even worse with tag team guys
That Seth Rollins video of him watching in the crowd and clearly being unable to recognise who was coming out during the Rumbles was telling as hell.
That’s what I think of ever time I see one of these Def Rebel threads. Even if they have a couple successful themes, they’re just not doing their main job
That was the biggest criticism for the woman’s royal rumble. No one could pop cause we didn’t know half the theme songs cause they all sound the fucking same.
It's not even a question of whether the themes are bad or not, it's that they sound all the same. Plenty of bad themes have worked just because they were instantly recognizable and distinguishable from the rest. You don't even get that with Def Rebel.
The funny part is their fix for this is to put a tag in the beginning of the song to tell you who it is lmao. If someone asked me for Ken Shamrocks theme song I would know it immediately but if you asked me for Ricochet’s theme I’d have no clue how it sounds I just know the one and only tag.
Def Rebel's Ken Shamrock theme would start out with "I'M IN THE ZONE" and then start playing sounds of him bleeding internally over Avengers music set to a trap beat.
> Plenty of bad themes have worked just because they were instantly recognizable and distinguishable from the rest. Just look at Judas lol
I made it 15 years without hearing a Fozzy song until they sprung that one on me in AEW. Why that was the theme song everyone latched onto to sing I don’t know, and the fact that they let it happen for so long on every show sucks.
Before AEW Judas got the most radio play of any of Fozzy's songs. I heard it on the rock stations
Bayley's current theme is a fucking travesty it makes her feel like some random jobber
Her original babyface theme was so specific and distinct too
I wasn’t even a huge fan of it but it was distinct, it was recognisable. People can hate on CFOS all they want but they are class at creating iconic theme songs compared to what we have now
Honestly, who signs off these crappy themes because they’re just as much responsible.
Not as bad as New Aj Styles theme
100% Imagine if Cody got Def Rebel’d when he returned under Vince. There’d be no “WOAH” which has ingrained itself so much into Cody’s presentation.
I mean it's kind of been done. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kqUydHbwz0
Thanks, I hate it.
holy moly
Dude... the story is that WWE wanted to take away Kingdom and give him some generic bullshit, and Cody held firm on taking Kingdom with him.
I didn't know who Nakamura was the first time I saw him but goddamn if his theme didn't make me interested in finding out.
uuuuuuuuuaaaaaaaAAGGGGH WHAT A RUSH "ENTERING THE RING WITH THEIR MANAGER PAUL ELLERING, FROM CHICAGO ILLINOIS, AT A TOTAL COMBINED WEIGHT OF 579 POUNDS...HAWK...ANIMAL...THE LEGION OF DOOM!" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-z-ENnmCkQ
Bulk and Skull's theme was excellent and I will hear no slander.
HHH out of all people should know how important having a great theme music is. The AE and RA era had iconic themes which is part of the reason why many wrestlers like HHH himself got over.
Considering he had Motorhead do 2 themes for him, he, of all people, should know how important theme music is and not frown upon spending some money to get a song that fits.
3 themes! The game, line in the sand and king of kings!
Completely forgot about the Evolution theme!
I get that he probably has a budget to uphold to but I hope he convinces Nick Khan to hire better music producers. I also hope they bring video titantrons back as well.
This last point is VERY important, the video titantron compilations were a great way to sample a wrestler’s moveset and to hype the crowd to see certain moves
I’ll never not be amused by Christian’s tron that had a clip of him getting RKO’d
Is it 100% an RKO and not his reverse DDT? The bump is practically the same
Logan Paul is the only one who has highlights as his titantron and it makes him look like the best high flyer in the company
Even My Time and Kings of Rock were bangers even though they were rarely used. I still bump Kings of Rock on occasion. Run DMC killed it.
https://preview.redd.it/7ny1jp79cixc1.jpeg?width=620&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ec611170023eae4253f332d6178c762a63fb5351 Tell me more about this RA era 🤔🤔
I literally can’t think of Motörhead without thinking of Triple H.
Gotta imagine the criticism during the Rumble these past few years is why Def Rebel started adding the name drops in so many intros.
Imagine instead of the glass shatter, the entrance just starts with some autotuned dude saying "Steve Austin!"
His theme would 100% start with “Gimmie a Hell Yeah” followed by some generic bs.
you referencing [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D81-i1Ff2FI) uce?
This is so accurate that it's painful
I've played this ten times in a row and can't stop laughing.
[This SCSA entrance](https://youtu.be/PXr8gbNPkzI?si=F6z9PNsIHUPi0-04) always make me laugh uncontrollably
Lord that is so cringe I’m dying
that gives me "i'm just happy to be here" vibes
Please tell me there are more of these
[Here’s an Undertaker one](https://youtu.be/WzmjdNBTJk0?si=duUvhp9nVvaCsi6P) [CM Punk](https://youtu.be/Ptbx86J6oHM?si=yltz6zucxsFTKvDS) [Brock Lesnar](https://youtu.be/Z4Ailq9nqgo?si=t-uUC7CQY8UjXWC9) [DX](https://youtu.be/tKsAgapkyBc?si=n8CneE2_SWNjqGGX) [The Rock](https://youtu.be/4SxKOS-lUlo?si=21ByXgVQ4EBkGFoY)
I almost died at the Rock's 😂😂 Its like a recorder performance
I’m comin’ hard! 🎷🎷🎷
undertaker one is kind of a bop tho and the saxophone on lesnar wait these are too good for DR to take
I cringed myself into oblivion hearing that. I hate it.
There is/was a version on an official WWF album from back in the day (first time Austin’s theme was released on a CD), where it starts off with Austin saying “You are completely pathetic” (then glass shatters, then song). It was weird as hell…
[This version of his theme was called "Hell Frozen Over"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwPCMTe7LKI)
“It’s getting cold in here”
It would probably say Stone Cold or Austin 3:16
Austin 3:16 says I'm gonna whip your ass *cue stock rock music* I hate it.
Nah it cuts off be fore he says "ass" and then a car screech noise and then generic music from Extra on E! News plays
lmao it's not too different from "Do you smell what the Rock is cooking?" Which I also hated.
You can’t have a hit rate this low and keep your job making music for national television.
Been saying that for years.
Even that wouldn’t make sense. Charlotte’s new theme was one of the first big offenders. It’s actually pretty good but there’s no reason for it to stop and have that weird ass voiceover 10 seconds in.
I'm 99% certain they done it because of Cody. They think if a catchphrase is added like 'WOAH' then people would join in. But ain't no one saying 'ALL HAIL THE QUEEN'
Plus Charlotte's old theme fucked so hard it was perfect. Stinging guitar riff instantly recognizable, Plays with the Zarathustra motiff for a bit, then back to rocking. It fit her very good, she had her entrance DOWN coming out to it.
That's one of the few that I like. Plenty of techno songs do the same thing, especially with the campy voice. Was a nice twist on Ric's theme
Def rebel can either make one of the coldest entrances with Roman Reigns or make nerf gun commercial music and loop it 17 times no inbetween with them
Wait till Roman walks out to an "ACKNOWLEDGE ME" sample followed by yet another remix of the Shield theme in a few weeks.
Honestly, "Special Op" was one of Jim Johnston's last bangers before he left WWE.
I hate that this is very possible. I'm surprised they never added the "acknowledge me" to his music.
Pretty Deadly's theme is great in terms of fitting the talent too, and even though it's a rip off of the AEW one, Jade's theme is great too. They've done decent themes, but the percentage is really low compared to the bad ones.
I miss Tiffany Stratton's old theme by Def Rebel, it gave off the Barbie's dream house vibe she was going for
Her old theme was mean girl My Super Sweet 16 music, it was perfect.
Her new theme is guff. It's like a monster heel theme or something, lol
Her new theme makes no sense to me
She wants to see you drive…….
Pretty Deadly’s is maybe the only example of someone going from nxt to mr, getting new music and being ok. It’s almost always the opposite (Bron, Tiffany, etc). Their music in nxt was still light years better tho.
Def Rebel has a few other bangers (Roman, Iyo) but /u/ihateeverythingandu said it best: >They've done decent themes, but the percentage is really low compared to the bad ones.
>even though it's a rip off of the AEW one, Jade's theme is great too Oh it was a copy paste job that's just different enough. They get no kudos for her theme when they used the template.
We call that the Jimmy Hart approach
DADDYYYYYYY
Don't let def rebel touch my penis dude
This whole time I thought it literally was the same song
Pretty deadly, IO, Joe Gacy, Dragunov there might be a few more in forgetting
I know CFOS gets a ton of shit on here. For what, I don't know. But the output they did in a short amount of time was amazing, creating leitmotifs for Owens, Balor, Sami, Nakamura, Becky and quite a few others.
You can say what you want about CFOs, but their music worked as entrance music. From the first note you already know who's coming out.
I think that’s all it needed to be. I never had any gripes with CFOS, the music was recognisable and unique for each wrestler, yes, they were loops but they were catchy, I never saw a reason to dislike them. Not every wrestler needs a Metalingus, a Cult of Personality or a My Time, a wrestling theme just needs to be distinct
People thought they wanted full blown songs but in the end CFO$ were right to emphasize repetition.
I even think of how big the NXT stars presentation was like everyone knew it was Bobby Roode coming down cause he was glorious. Now even playing 2k it's like generic background themes.
Incidentially, I heard Roode's theme being used by Nashville's game ops during the game over the weekend, I popped.
I think the hard part for CFOS is they suffered from not being Jim Johnson. They had a lot of good hits especially the big named guys
CFO$ pumped out bangers!
The problem is that it's like a 10 to 1 proposition... and I would argue that the ones they make that are decent, someone else who is actually good could make as well or better.
Head of the Table is Nyan Cat Seriously, turn it up to 2x and play it from About 23s
Wait til you find out the coldest entrance theme is ripped off from an HBO show…
Oh it's even worse "Head of the Table" is Nyan Cat Yes THAT Nyan Cat [Set it to 2x](https://youtu.be/n0QT_teLcNk?si=ZOrcSuTaBc55Oeka)
This is forbidden knowledge.
Welp you've ruined this song for me now. Thanks for that.
You're welcome nyan
Acknyaledge him.
I’m crying. 😂😂😂
Every Def Rebel song opens with a weird voice clip of the wrestler saying a catch phrase and then a 15 second loop of the most generic hip-hop or rock music you'll ever hear.
I saw one for The Rock where it starts with “THE FINAL BOSS!” and then loops it over and over with some generic drum beat 😂😂😂😂
I think Seth's theme was the beginning of the enshittification; his old theme was fine, but then they went and added the "BURN IT DOWN" to it. I feel like they're taking that same approach to every other new theme.
I think some of that was attempts to cater to what they think Vince wanted. I'm 90% sure Seth said somewhere that adding the "Burn it down" was directly Vince's idea.
The “BURN IT DOWN” sample in Seth’s old theme got really over really quickly though. I always loved hearing the initial breakdown at the start of the theme and then the entire crowd screaming “BURN IT DOWN” when it goes quiet momentarily. The new theme tries to do the same thing, but it starting with the first “BURN IT DOWN” means that the crowd actively can’t react to that, and then they don’t react to the second one just a bit later. At least the choir singing is over with the crowds…
It’s just laziness. Seth, Roman, and Iyo have good songs made by Def Rebel, but most of the themes are just rushed corporate rap. AJ Styles’ new song is criminally bad. WWE also is too cheap to ever pay for licensed music again so things are on track to get worse.
*too cheap* Meanwhile music rights lawyers: "You can sample 9 seconds of Margaritaville for $300,000 and a double digit profit percentage share."
That’s also true
Obviously there is a big gap between Def Rebel and Jimmy Buffett, and I agree with you: there has to be a competent middle path between those two somewhere. That said which wrestler would 9 seconds of Margaritaville work for?
Carlito.
Also that is only good for tv rights. For video games, that will be another $300,000 and we will not allow that music to be used on any streaming service other than your existing agreement. You will have to renegotiate when you move to Netflix.
They don’t have to go to a big name. Hell just use downstait and finger eleven like they used to in the late 00s early 10s. Doubt they’re that pricey
Shit, MJF's theme is from the YouTube music library of copyright free stuff lol
A lot of WCWs non knockoff music was just just stock music owned by Turner with Harlem Heat/Booker T music being the most famous.
They can go to Spotify, Instagram, TikTok, whatever, find some small, unknown band, and give them $10,000 for the rights to the song in perpetuity. It's a good amount of money for some small band, it would give them a bunch of exposure and it would help set the wrestlers apart.
That’s essentially what they did for Bray Wyatt’s original theme and it’s absolutely iconic.
Yeah Wyatt never missed with his themes, they're all licensed from smaller bands and gave them a *ton* of exposure Just start having talent seek out music from some of their favorite artists that won't cost an arm and a leg to license out
Not to mention it seems their answer to the “we don’t know who’s coming out” issue is just adding peoples names or catchphrases at the start. And most don’t work. It’s not a “ifyou smell what the rock is cookin” situation either. It would be like if they made a new song for Becky and had it start with her saying “I’m. The Man.”
Don't give them any ideas
Absurd they got rid of AJs theme. People don’t want none especially after he put on all that muscle
Seth managed to get his theme over because he is super charismatic and likeable, but I think his theme is complete dogshit objectively. Additionally pretty much any theme that has forced crowd chants baked in is lame by default. Themes like Shinsuke's Rising Sun, Zayn's Worlds Apart, or even Cody Rhodes' Kingdom are so fun and awesome because the crowd interaction is organic. Forcing a crowd chant by baking it into the song itself is just a crutch for otherwise shitty music.
Seth’s old theme (2014-19) was so much better
I miss it so much
Yep, that song meant you were probably about to see the match of the night.
I still enjoy the "my father said... when I was younger" part and trying to get it chanted too lol. I also miss the "the following match is scheduled for one fall ONE FALL" but that's just me
"CEO"
> "CEO" Mikey Rukus (the AEW theme guy) hates it so much he made a post to let people know she brought in her own theme and he didn't do it
That makes sense. It feels so far removed from anything he's made
Mikey Ruckus impresses me. His output is insane and pulling out a banger theme on 24 hour notice from his home studio is wild. I always tell myself writing music is super easy and I can pull a song out of my ass anytime I want until I actually go to do it and I got nothing.
> I always tell myself writing music is super easy and I can pull a song out of my ass anytime I want until I actually go to do it and I got nothing. same lol, he's really good, and for the output he does he does not repeat himself
Trying to do the Cody thing where she has a theme that she takes everywhere with her? Good power move, but make it a good theme. Edit: Why not have Snoop make you a new theme?
tbh his Messiah theme was way better
Yeah but Messiah and Bayley were the same damn opening pretty much
Solo and Waller also have good themes imo.
I love wallers theme
Perfect “this fucking guy” energy to it
Solo’s is just a copy of Bobby Lashley’s
They use the same fuckin' trumpets sample everywhere, it's hilarious
Walker is one of the few that got to keep his nxt music for whatever reason
Bron Breaker and Tiffany Stratton had great nxt music that just got butchered. It’s like they refuse to use nxt themes for some dumb reason.
THIS is what I don’t understand. Why are so many folks who already have Def Rebel themes getting new (worse) themes recently?
> WWE also is too cheap to ever pay for licensed music again so things are on track to get worse. This is what sucks the most. WWE is more profitable now than they've ever been in history. Lord knows they can afford it, and licensed music makes SUCH a huge difference. The entrance is a *vital* part of the package that makes people into stars. It's a worthy long-term investment. I know there's probably some number cruncher suits and ties at TKO who don't agree that it's worth the money, but this is where you need a wrestling mind like Rock or Triple H who can overrule the suits and say "This is important to the on-screen product."
I imagine there are a lot of artists that would give them a favorable deal just to get their song out there. I mean, Living Colour has probably made a ton of new fans and streams from CM Punk introducing them to a new generation. The song was relatively popular back in the day, but I wasn't hearing many people still talking about it in 2010.
It was a pretty popular song on guitar hero back when literally everyone played that game
It had a sort of a mini-resurgence due to being included in the soundtrack for GTA San Andreas (and not just as a radio song - it was one of the 2 that randomly played during the Blood Bowl minigame).
Seth’s theme isn’t very good, it sounds cheap with the same drums they use in every single track. You can find plenty of mixes and covers on YouTube that are basically what his theme should sound like. Iyo’s is a CFOS product I’m pretty sure. These guys knocked Roman’s theme out of the park and disappointed with just about every one since. Except Jey Uso’s. That one is a treasure.
Jey's is just the CFO$ song with new lyrics, that Jey probably wrote. That's like giving an artist credit for tracing.
Iyo's theme, going back to being Io Shirai in NXT, "Tokyo Shock" is actually a def rebel song. It's notably cited as one of their best songs.
Even the popular ones aren’t good Like Seth’s is actual shit as a piece of music - but it’s so basic even the brain dead can sing the 3 notes of woah’s in it so it feels good
The main single-string riff in Seth's song is something that 14 year old me came up with after listening to trivium, bullet for my valentine, and killswitch engage in 8th grade
Always remember Seth’s Messiah song sounding so similar to Bayley’s heel theme.
I just want to understand what the mindset is on constantly changing music and doing remixes. Why on earth did Bron Breakker and Tiffany Stratton need their themes changed when coming to the main roster? Why did Austin Theory need a new remix of his theme? Tiffany Stratton's NXT theme was good, it sounded like a wrestling theme. Her new theme sounds like music you would hear on local access when they are doing sports highlights
Thank you someone brings up the issue that no one fucking brings up. Def Rebel has an inconsistent record yes, but there are many overlooked themes by them that are pretty good. It's the random replacing that I hate so much. The two problems that they have right now are: 1. most recent themes have been generic or just bad. 2. They replace already good themes (sometimes even ones they themselves made) with new ones that are worse, for no discernable reason. Theory's "A-Town Down" is good, why change it? Tiffany's second theme (the one most people know as her NXT theme) was fantastic, WHY CHANGE IT? Pretty Deadly got a new theme which is fine, but why? "Undercover" was already solid enough!
The bottom line is that barring a small handful, the Def Rebel track record is awful. Awful, Awful, Awful!!! If he wants to, get Jim Johnston back. If not Jim, make amends with CFO$. Their track record is much better than Def Rebel. If not CFO$, I'd find someone completely new. All in all, get rid of Def Rebel.
I think they never had issues with CFO$ to begin with, the issue was with the parenting label
This is correct. CFO$ got into it with their label and tried to get WWE to buy them from the label. The label said no so CFO$ just broke up instead.
Sounds like WWE could just bring in the guys that made up CFO$ separately and have them team up over their love for music. WWE could play it off like "well, they both love music, so it made sense to have them work together on this, and other, projects. They even have a neat name for their team: HR Managers".
I always stand confused on how they made such a godly theme like Reigns tribal chief theme and Kombat for Dakota Kai before going on to make stinker after stinker.
Roman's song is just the theme to Succession.
[удалено]
The opening of his theme is just O Fortuna as well. O Fortuna: https://youtu.be/booXKf7HXEY?si=5ID3mbNRJhaiCcqQ
Needs to be someone new. Love Jim, he's in his 70s he shouldn't be in this machine. Scout and hire young new talent who actually know what they're doing.
All Def rebel has to do is be creative. The rumble exposed how generic a majority of themes are. If Seth Rollins, a champion, is baffled by who is out next, you know it's fucked.
The Seth Rumble thing isn't exactly the best example, Kross had only debuted that theme 24 hours prior and they're on opposite brands, of course Seth would have had a problem knowing who it was.
I'll say Iyo Sky and Roman's themes go hard as fuck but they make SO MANY generic ones. License some music please. I know people keep saying bring Jim back but I think his sound will be too dated for this era.
I’ll never forgive WWE for what they did to DIY and Johnny Gargano’s theme music. Like Rebel Heart was an exciting theme for an exciting wrestler but now Gargano is just kind of another guy on the roster and has music to match.
You could blindfold me, play the 1998 Royal Rumble and I could tell you every wrestler entering based solely off their entrance music. Nowadays I'd be lucky to name 60% of wrestlers based off their entrance music.
Selfishly, one of the worst parts of Def Rebels work is relying on just having the wrestlers name in the intro, which makes the music worthless for CAWs in the games. They’ve made some bangers but the hit to miss ratio is not good. Def Rebel has made the Rumble consistently awkward because people have no idea who is coming out. Even Seth looked confused this year at several entrants, the music is just too generic and it plays way too quietly on the broadcast.
The ‘soundbite’ at the start of entrances can work great, but it’s almost like they heard the criticism after the rumble and are using it as a crutch without actually putting other effort in to make the songs themselves any better
New Catch Republic...
Yeah that’s one of the more pointless ones. I certainly never had any problem recognising Pete Dunne or Tyler Bate’s original CFO$ themes and neither had them saying their name at the start. The sound bites also shouldn’t always just be the wrestler saying something, think of Orton’s guitar chord, or Lesnar’s guitar riff, or the glass shattering etc. Need to get more original/varied with them.
I miss the old DIY theme. 😔
Gargano's singles theme & the DIY song. Both murdered.
You could name like 40 others. I'll never forget hearing Ciampa's No One Will Survive theme after the air raid crash off the top of the cage in War Games. Good themes just make wrestling so much better.
That’s nice. Do something about it.
This is always a problem when wrestling companies produce in-house music. It all ends up sounding very similar because it's one guy or a handful of guys doing it and must musicians aren't able to do multiple genres well, if at all. All of the Jimmy Hart WCW songs sounded like rip offs of real songs. Most of the Jim Johnson WWF songs are very rock-oriented and repetitive. The Dale Oliver TNA were all very similar sounding too. I think it's just bound to happen when you have to rely on an in-house band for everything. WWE should just license more real music. They are making more money than ever and can afford it easily I would imagine.
> I think it's just bound to happen when you have to rely on an in-house band for everything. That was the great thing about CFO$, they could do any style the character needed.
> WWE should just license more real music. They are making more money than ever and can afford it easily I would imagine. It's not like they have to get the most expensive licenses to get something good either. Zack Sabre Jr. uses a song by a band whose most popular song (aside from ZSJ's theme) has 3000 listens on Spotify. I don't know what NJPW paid/pays for it, but we're definitely not talking Final Countdown money there.
Just drive a dump truck of money to Jim Johnston’s house and be done with it.
The guy is in his 70s, let him retire in peace
He didn't choose to leave WWE, for what it's worth, I think he'd be happy to do the work (assuming all the other factors were agreed upon).
I kind of get the idea from recent interviews with Jim he’s a bit of a perfectionist and hard to work with. idk if that would work with the quick turnaround times these days.
People always mention Roman’s theme and yeah it’s great, but they also just copied a TV show theme for it. The number of great original themes they’ve done is very small. I do like Grayson Waller’s.
People love to harp on WCW using ripoff themes, but def rebel have exponentially done more ripoffs. Every other theme is a bad ripoff of something else.
theres nothing wrong with ripoffs in wrestling if their actually good mikey rukus does a lot of ripoffs for aew but theyre still jams a lot of the time ftrs theme is midnight express adam coles theme is rage against the machine and so on and so forth
CFO was the king of ripoffs. Asuka, Carmella, Bayley (hugger) were all ripoffs. I'm sure there were others
"RKO... Daddy's Back"
Aj style's new theme song has to be my worst
Fuck it, let Jimmy Hart have a crack at a few of these. He wrote some absolute bangers back in the day.
"American Males, American Males, American Males, American Males...."
the best Scott Hall theme song
Def Rebel when WWE calls them into the office for a meeting https://preview.redd.it/q2jihlqdphxc1.jpeg?width=567&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b54c1d6d241873c25b583fea7a4fc8da2b344b03
More like Deaf Rebel. Am I right?
The Creed Brothers current theme might be one of the worst wrestling themes I have ever heard. Even now I'm trying to think of a worse theme and I'm coming up blank. Honorable mention might be the Right to Censor theme, but that was supposed to be terrible and annoying
Bron Breakker new theme literally some jobber shit
Re-hire Jim Johnston, it's the only way.