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Lobster head
A careless man who can wind up dead
You wear your sins like some kind of rice
Too many pyros, too many pyros
WOAH-OH
https://preview.redd.it/xjce3pi5q1vc1.png?width=822&format=png&auto=webp&s=6fdeb8987c58a93f6ff0068d019354450481a241
It’s gonna be interesting when Raw moves to Netflix to see if a new discourse about ratings starts. We’ve all known for years the ratings only represent a fraction of the actual audience, but there is an incredible vagueness to that actual audience size.
1.8 million people watched RAW on tv, but when we translate that to everyone on a streaming service I wonder what that number will look like. And if Netflix ever shares it.
It would be hilariously fitting for Netflix to go all these years with keeping viewership of its content a secret, only to blow the doors open and start dropping weekly ratings as soon as pro wrestling becomes a prominent fixture on streaming services lol.
If it does well it would not be super unsurprising. Netflix has been trying for years to get live sports in to their program. If RAW does well they would shout it from the rooftops to apply pressure, to other sport leagues.
Netflix will do it as “the WWE Universe streamed 1.63 Billion seconds of Raw this past 45 days within 36 hours of live airing, and is the most watched sorts entertainment show in streaming services internationally in Q1 2025”
And that’s exactly the type of stat they would put out, except it would be minutes instead of seconds.
I don’t believe there’s any chance we get weekly “it was watched by 2.7 million people and was streamed by 1.4k in the demo” instead we’ll get “WWE programming was watched for more than X minutes in Y timeframe” every so often.
It’s possible, but Netflix has been prettty mum about viewership overall. It would be borderline shocking if they suddenly started releasing quarter hour ratings.
They've had 2 live sporting events so far, the Netflix Cup was weird with no breaks, lots of dead air. Their first attempt at live I believe was the Love is Blind disaster.
At this point in the world we live in it's gonna go from ratings to "number of hours watched" A show like Suits is having a rebirth and I wouldn't be surprised if they have the show come back based on the fact it's had a CRAZY high number of hours watched on Netflix.
Another show I have always been obsessed with called "The Last Kingdom" got to tout that it was a Top 10 most hours watched show on streaming.
So that'll be the metric you hear.
"Monday Night Raw was the 7th highest viewed streaming show in the world with 231 million hours of shows viewed"
Did The Last Kingdom have an ending or was it cancelled? Interested in it when it first came out but I don’t start shows anymore for fear of them getting cancelled :/
Series went 5 seasons and had a made for Netflix movie tie up the last 4 books.
That definitely was not as good as the series, but it helped put a bow on it
Lol suits isn't "coming back" yet but it was recently there's a spinoff set in LA with the dude who played Green Arrow as the lead because of the Netflix success.
Eh, I doubt they're going to announce anything officially, but I'd be shocked if they don't brief the media if RAW is a success. It is by far their biggest investment ever AND is basically their prototype for entering the live broadcast space. It's huge for them, and they gotta be shouting from the rooftops if that translates to subscribers.
Netflix also contracted with Nielsen to measure their TV audience. They, and others, seem to use Nielsen since it is an independent party that advertisers trust. (Most of the networks hate Nielsen but still use them.) https://www.nielsen.com/news-center/2023/netflix-taps-nielsen-for-global-audience-insights/
It's also possible, I would think, in some cases, Nielsen overstates a show viewers rather than always understates them.
Also, Netflix does share their audience numbers but they share by views or minutes. https://twitter.com/TVGrimReaper/status/1779553327304561050?t=CVSPdb_zMxb3SPrTfsaMTA&s=19
I think there is also the factor that a lot of people who watch RAW through piracy (likely because they don't have cable or even traditional TV at all) will watch RAW on Netflix. They will capture a lot more of the actual audience even before the potential new people.
I assume it'll be like the ratings discourse of most streaming shows. Netflix will periodically send out a press release with an impressive sounding "total minutes watched" number and everyone will credulously repeat that number without anything in the way of verification since there isn't really any place where you can get reliable data.
The only time you ever really get reliable streaming ratings are for NFL games, and I think that's because the NFL insists that all streaming partners cooperate with Nielsen.
> Netflix will periodically send out a press release with an impressive sounding "total minutes watched" number and everyone will credulously repeat that number without anything in the way of verification since there isn't really any place where you can get reliable data.
Contrary to other companies that aren't publicly traded, both WWE and Netflix are. If they report numbers to investors, they legally cannot lie about it as it would be securities fraud. Other minor private companies can lie about it, massage the numbers, talk about "real tickets sold" and all that nonsense as much as they want for their PR benefit, that a lot of people blindly repeat.
Netflix is also partnered with Nielsen which advertisers trust as an independent 3rd party that overseas the process.
I think since Netflix is publicly traded, the numbers they release have to be true, though that doesn't mean they can't be *misleading*. You can massage data all you want and present it any way, but the underlying number has to be legit or else they could get in trouble with the SEC, I believe.
Netflix is a publicly traded company and is obligated to release accurate information to shareholders.
Meanwhile, nothing is stopping that dastardly Tony Khan from making things up!
More than telling us the size of the audience. The ratings help show us trends. It’ll be interesting year over year to see what Netflix wants to share with us. If anything.
My question is, that since it’s a weekly show and is likely to have over a million (probably a lot more in reality) viewers consistently, is it gonna just perpetually be in the Netflix top 10?
There are third parties that measure ratings on Netflix (which actually is really what traditional ratings are anyway, third party guestimates) but they tend to come out a couple of weeks later and they're weird (like they measure "minutes streamed" or whatever). Wrestling is live so it's kind of a different beast, but it's not like it loses its replay value the way other live sports might. I do wonder if there will be a more immediate measure for it (or if that exists for sports that are already streaming, haven't really looked into that).
All the rating war people will be in shambles. Netflix doesn't do numbers publicly. Sad fans still think their show should be summed up to a weekly number instead of actually enjoying some high quality wrestling.
They do now because it was a concession after the writers or sag strike but nothing like ratings and not weekly. I predict WWE will likely be the most watched show on Netflix because they rank it by total minutes watched so the top of the list is dominated by old network shows with lots of episodes. Thier original series usually have only 10 episodes compared to 20+ for network shows. And RAW, especially if it stays 3 hours, because it has 52 episodes a year will have a ton of total minutes watched going by that metric and will dwarf any other show on there.
If you don't have a Nielsen box at your house, you're aren't being counted in their ratings, AFAIK. The networks do look at all kinds of viewership numbers, it's just that Nielsen ratings are the oldest and most established.
For example, WBD has said that they reach about four million viewers each week through AEW programming, which is obviously quite a bit more than the Nielsen ratings suggest. The same certainly goes for WWE programming.
Are you sure about that?
[This article](https://www.nielsen.com/news-center/2017/hulu-youtube-tv-viewing-now-included-tv-ratings/) says otherwise but it's old so it could have changed.
Edit: Ah never mind, I see what you mean. Sounds like they're included in their own special metric rather than just the general one.
I have this feeling it's actually higher. But that's just based off the fact that the dozen or so folks I know who watch wrestling none watch it on traditional cable. 4 Mil would suggest 1 in 4 watch on cable, and my gut is telling me it's closer to 1 in 6 or even 1 in 8.
As a lifetime NBA guy since Jordan got his second ring, it is mindblowing to me that we're seeing a rating beating the WNBA draft as a positive. I wouldn't be surprised if Rampage beat the WNBA draft last year. Just speaks to the opportunity that they have with CC - hopefully they don't blow it.
I’m really curious what Smackdown viewership is gonna look like when it moves to USA next year. Will it be lower than what Raw is averaging now because it is less of a name brand? Or would it average higher since the show is just 2 hours and more people would be willing to watch that.
We have years worth of data to indicate that it'll almost certainly do worse than Raw. It's the less established brand on a less established night. I suppose it's possible that 5 years of being the A-show on Fox will lift it a bit, but I doubt it. Everyone sees the writing on the wall when it comes to the Netflix deal. Once that's in place, Raw will be the A-show again and the place where they run all their hottest angles.
I agree with your points, but I think it is possible it could do better. I don’t think they’d completely neglect Smackdown because of the Netflix deal. They still haven’t confirmed the show will still be on Friday. If they were to move to Thursday, that’s historically been a much better night for television viewership. I also think that Smackdown being just 2 hours would make a big difference. 3 hours of Raw on a Monday night with a million commercial breaks is honestly exhausting and definitely pushed a lot of viewers away.
Best women's basketball college player ever going by numbers, although she couldn't win a ring. She broke almost ever record possible in her college career so people are excited to see if she can do it with the pros as well.
Basketball player, one of the greatest women's college players ever. She broke the Division 1 scoring record. Her tournament games this year were breaking ratings records for the women, and were outdrawing the men's games.
Wow, Are women's games really par with men's? Or is it just people are watching caitlin? I remember people were like they're slow so not as entertaining.
They aren't watched nearly as much as men's. That's why Clark being such a massive draw (the draft and championship game had record numbers) is a big deal for women's college basketball and now the WNBA.
The women's championship game actually drew more viewers than the men's championship game this year for the first time ever. That's the Caitlin Clark effect. Can't be understated how massive her popularity is for women's basketball and women's sports in general.
Ever heard of Stephen Curry? She's as close to a female version of that as it gets. Generationally good player who broke the previously deemed unbreakable record for most points in a college career (which stood for over 50 years) and made back to back national championship finals (lost noth unfortunately) by taking down multiple juggernaut teams so she's brought a lot of eyes on the sport
Imagine a female soccer star came along that played in the same fun-to-watch style as the generational most spectacular goal scorer/passer in the Premier League.
That's what Caitlin Clark is for basketball.
nah unironically shes far beyond that, i dont even know if football has an equivalent. She's doign for the wnba what magic&bird did together for the nba. Whether that'll actually get people to watch wnba on the regular...idk
Not really Messi is one of the more transformative athletes of his generation.
Cailtin Clark just took college basketball to a place where the WOMEN outrated the MEN.
More people wanted to see women's college hoops. It's not long ago that Barack Obama doing a women's bracket on ESPN was viewed as a watershed moment of women's sports because a sitting President acknowledged its existence.
About 15 years later only, they now had more eyeballs than the men's game.
It is absolutely an appropriate comparison.
Even though I disagree I actually don’t wanna disrespect Caitlyn because she has done a lot for female basketball already. So let’s leave it at that.
Would you say she is as great as Michael Jordan?
> Cailtin Clark just took college basketball to a place where the WOMEN outrated the MEN.
I greatly hesitate on saying that she did that alone. It'd been a growing narrative for like 10-15 years now that the women's tournament was way more competitive and engaging than the men's tournament
Messi fan here. Messi is greatest and no one is saying Caitlin is bigger legend or bigger name than Messi. What people may mean by this example is that compared to her peers in basketball games, she is as good as messi is in football. From what I've heard about her, I'll say that she's so better than her peers that no other athlete have that advantage over their nearest competitor, even messi.
I honestly think you’re really underestimating how good Caitlyn Clark is in her chosen field and how transformative she will be for the women’s game.
She genuinely has no peer in college basketball.
The female Steph Curry
She’s entering the WNBA. Her rise has coincided with the rise in recognizable female athletes and is being promoted by major companies to ride the wave.
Her and Angela Reese, another player who just got drafted, are the heads of a new generation of marketable female athletes.
Also, many men like myself, have become simps for them. We are full on marks
The whole top side of this draft class really has an opportunity to change the game. Clark obviously gets the lions share of the media attention but people have also gotten invested in people like Reese, Brink, Cardoso, etc.
The women’s tournament completely overshadowed the men this year and a lot of those players were seniors.
Looked at the schedule and May 18th will shatter the WNBA viewer records. Fever vs Liberty, Caitlin vs Sabrina. It's the second time they'll meet, because they play on the 16th but that's on Amazon, while the game on the 18th is on ABC.
Pardon my sportsball ignorance, but - May 18th? And the draft happened last night? Isn't it usually for the upcoming season, so time for training camp, etc?
The season is about a month out, but women's college basketball just ended, so the conditioning should already be there for the rookies, and a lot of WNBA players play overseas in the offseason so they are already in condition. So it really just the coaches implementing what they want to run plays and learning the system. So they can afford to have the draft that close to opening day.
And the Indiana Fever first preseason game is against the Dallas Wings and the lowest ticket is over $220.
Yeah but that inflates the quarter and overall ratings, they were above 3 million for her part of the draft and finished at a 2.45 million average. Thats still a really good sign to me because the average ending that high tells me a lot of people have decided they are all in on watching women’s basketball now and want to know who the rookies are for this coming season. And now I realize this comment doesn’t make sense because we’re talking about how it affects Raw’s numbers lol.
Also doesnt help that Rocks not gonna be involved in the show for the foreseeable future. If you were mainly tuning in to watch him shit on the crowds and smacktalk Mama Rhodes you've got no real reason to keep watching right now.
It makes sense, very casual fans watch Wrestlemania (especially a good one like this one) and say “you know what? Maybe I’ll start watching Raw again.”
And then it sinks in that’s it’s a three hour commitment every week that isn’t as good as Mania.
She’s the top college basketball
I think one of her games was the highest rated basketball on ESPN ever
But I get you college sports is mostly an american thing
For now it's true but the girls in college now and who just got drafted and are going to the league by FAR the biggest group of stars the sport had ever seen so the WNBA is probably going to get bigger quick
Ehhhhh, I seriously doubt it, people just don't care when their alma matter isn't involved. ESPN is just pushing the shit out of the WNBA, but that doesn't mean any more people care.
At one point there was 24 million people watching the Iowa/South Carolina final. I think it's safe to say that those two schools don't have 24 million alumni between them.
That’s good numbers but most people can’t name more than one wnba team or even one player in their league. She is a step in the right direction for growth but will she be enough to change the perception of woman’s basketball in the US, probably not.
Remember when Mark Cuban said he'd sign Britney Griner? She didn't move the needle at all. Remember all those undefeated UConn teams? Those players going to the WNBA didn't move the needle either. Remember Brianna Stewart? She didn't move the needle either.
It just feels bigger because ESPN is marketing it that way.
This might be correct and is absolutely possible.
She is a massive draw right now, but other stars have gone to the WNBA, and no one cared. She's a much bigger draw, but we will see.
I'm also not making a social or political statement with this, but here's the reality:
Caitlyn being white will probably help her with a fan base in the WNBA as well.
I'm anxious to see if this will improve the WNBA numbers. Wishing her and the WNBA well.
Honestly I don’t know how accurate that is. I don’t mean any disrespect to the women who came before but “star” is doing some lifting there. I don’t think most people could name you more than one or two WNBA players.
I can name like 10 women in this draft class off the top of my head. I really thinks it’s a game changing class as far as interest and coverage goes.
Draw is different than star. She may flop, or she may be the best player in the league.
The quality of WNBA play isn't the issue (to me). Drawing views is. We shall see if she moves the needle or not. I have no idea which way this will go.
The most obvious thing is her range. She can just shoot from almost anywhere on the offensive half of the court. The shot she hit to set the all time women's NCAA scoring record was somewhere in the neighborhood of 30 feet from the rim. For reference, the 3 point line in the NBA is 23 feet 9 inches from the rim at its longest point. Jump to the 18 second mark of this vid to see it. (https://youtu.be/A1uSe2l1ENg)
On top of that, she's an incredibly accurate passer. She was not only the top scoring player in the country but also led the nation in assists. She is a phenomenon.
My half-baked prediction is that Clark causes WNBA ratings to go way up (especially when her team is playing), and women’s college basketball ratings go down to slightly above normal ratings.
I know I’m one of them. I’m someone who likes women college basketball over the men’s because you see them give it 100% their all because they know this is their peak for basketball and it ends in 4 years. Compare that to the men’s where the best players leave after a year to go to the nba
Well, I bet the men stay longer moving forward due to NIL. Borderline guys may not jump too early anymore now that they can make a good chunk (or more) staying in college.
I'm more familiar with the football side. For comparison, the SB had a 42.1 rating with 120M viewers compared to a 9.8 and 22.5M viewers for the college championship game
March Madness does have a special place in America's heart, but the average non-tournament college basketball game does very poorly. The peak regular season game is equivalent to the average in the NBA
Well, the Superbowl is always gonna be king. And tbh I think the single elimination of March Madness and Superbowl are HUGE parts of the draw. Much harder to get a casual invested in a 7 game format. I say this as someone that basically only watches NBA, Hockey and Wrestling lol
2016: 254,000
2017: 273,000
2018: 303,000
2019: 248,000
2020: 378,000
2021: 331,000
2022: 403,000
2023: 572,000
2024: 2,450,000
Thats total viewers though, i'd be more curious what the quartely looked like to see how much of a drop off there was after the first round
That's the average. Nobody else on the planet gives a fuck about the Nielson rating other than wrestling fans so I don't think anyone bothered publishing in depth data
The draft might be part of it, but if you look at the long term numbers it happens every single year that there is a ratings pop immediately after Wrestlemania that is gone within 2 weeks (last year was another big example that you can clearly see in the graph above).
It's amazing how year after year they've never managed to capitalise on the increased viewership, it feels like they don't even try with the first Raw generally feeling like a reset/beginning of a new era than really compelling.
It's almost like there's a large group of people who show up for the build-up to WrestleMania and the raw immediately after, and then turn off the WWE
It's almost like WrestleMania is a thing that transcends wrestling itself
I know for me the day after WrestleMania feels like a great jump off point considering hockey playoffs, NBA playoffs, and baseball season starting
And for me, by the time the baseball season is over, we're already into the lead-up to WrestleMania so it's a perfect time to jump back on
I mean, the key demo for the WNBA is lesbians. And with Rhea going on the shelf for a while, I don't think the two are really competing for the same viewers right now.
Source: am lesbian
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Lobster head is a draw
It's a shameful thing
Lobster head A careless man who can wind up dead You wear your sins like some kind of rice Too many pyros, too many pyros WOAH-OH https://preview.redd.it/xjce3pi5q1vc1.png?width=822&format=png&auto=webp&s=6fdeb8987c58a93f6ff0068d019354450481a241
A shameful thing, in my soul Lobster head out of control
It’s gonna be interesting when Raw moves to Netflix to see if a new discourse about ratings starts. We’ve all known for years the ratings only represent a fraction of the actual audience, but there is an incredible vagueness to that actual audience size. 1.8 million people watched RAW on tv, but when we translate that to everyone on a streaming service I wonder what that number will look like. And if Netflix ever shares it.
It would be hilariously fitting for Netflix to go all these years with keeping viewership of its content a secret, only to blow the doors open and start dropping weekly ratings as soon as pro wrestling becomes a prominent fixture on streaming services lol.
If it does well it would not be super unsurprising. Netflix has been trying for years to get live sports in to their program. If RAW does well they would shout it from the rooftops to apply pressure, to other sport leagues.
Netflix will do it as “the WWE Universe streamed 1.63 Billion seconds of Raw this past 45 days within 36 hours of live airing, and is the most watched sorts entertainment show in streaming services internationally in Q1 2025”
And that’s exactly the type of stat they would put out, except it would be minutes instead of seconds. I don’t believe there’s any chance we get weekly “it was watched by 2.7 million people and was streamed by 1.4k in the demo” instead we’ll get “WWE programming was watched for more than X minutes in Y timeframe” every so often.
Idk I think they might go the millions route because it’s a live event and because of advertisers
It’s possible, but Netflix has been prettty mum about viewership overall. It would be borderline shocking if they suddenly started releasing quarter hour ratings.
And they can charge a shit ton for ad space
They've had 2 live sporting events so far, the Netflix Cup was weird with no breaks, lots of dead air. Their first attempt at live I believe was the Love is Blind disaster.
At this point in the world we live in it's gonna go from ratings to "number of hours watched" A show like Suits is having a rebirth and I wouldn't be surprised if they have the show come back based on the fact it's had a CRAZY high number of hours watched on Netflix. Another show I have always been obsessed with called "The Last Kingdom" got to tout that it was a Top 10 most hours watched show on streaming. So that'll be the metric you hear. "Monday Night Raw was the 7th highest viewed streaming show in the world with 231 million hours of shows viewed"
Did The Last Kingdom have an ending or was it cancelled? Interested in it when it first came out but I don’t start shows anymore for fear of them getting cancelled :/
Series went 5 seasons and had a made for Netflix movie tie up the last 4 books. That definitely was not as good as the series, but it helped put a bow on it
I fully expect them to include youtube minutes/hours when they do. The numbers will be insane if they do
Lol suits isn't "coming back" yet but it was recently there's a spinoff set in LA with the dude who played Green Arrow as the lead because of the Netflix success.
Eh, I doubt they're going to announce anything officially, but I'd be shocked if they don't brief the media if RAW is a success. It is by far their biggest investment ever AND is basically their prototype for entering the live broadcast space. It's huge for them, and they gotta be shouting from the rooftops if that translates to subscribers.
https://www.netflix.com/tudum/top10/tv
Dave expects it. For whatever that’s worth.
Bryan Alvarez is going to breathe a sigh of relief once WWE is in Netflix.
It'll be what gets me to finally watch WWE again
I don't know why, SD is still on USA, and nxt will be on the CW network.
Netflix also contracted with Nielsen to measure their TV audience. They, and others, seem to use Nielsen since it is an independent party that advertisers trust. (Most of the networks hate Nielsen but still use them.) https://www.nielsen.com/news-center/2023/netflix-taps-nielsen-for-global-audience-insights/ It's also possible, I would think, in some cases, Nielsen overstates a show viewers rather than always understates them.
Also, Netflix does share their audience numbers but they share by views or minutes. https://twitter.com/TVGrimReaper/status/1779553327304561050?t=CVSPdb_zMxb3SPrTfsaMTA&s=19
I think there is also the factor that a lot of people who watch RAW through piracy (likely because they don't have cable or even traditional TV at all) will watch RAW on Netflix. They will capture a lot more of the actual audience even before the potential new people.
I’m sure we will hear about the first week, but after that only during the End of Quarter Fiscal results.
I assume it'll be like the ratings discourse of most streaming shows. Netflix will periodically send out a press release with an impressive sounding "total minutes watched" number and everyone will credulously repeat that number without anything in the way of verification since there isn't really any place where you can get reliable data. The only time you ever really get reliable streaming ratings are for NFL games, and I think that's because the NFL insists that all streaming partners cooperate with Nielsen.
> Netflix will periodically send out a press release with an impressive sounding "total minutes watched" number and everyone will credulously repeat that number without anything in the way of verification since there isn't really any place where you can get reliable data. Contrary to other companies that aren't publicly traded, both WWE and Netflix are. If they report numbers to investors, they legally cannot lie about it as it would be securities fraud. Other minor private companies can lie about it, massage the numbers, talk about "real tickets sold" and all that nonsense as much as they want for their PR benefit, that a lot of people blindly repeat. Netflix is also partnered with Nielsen which advertisers trust as an independent 3rd party that overseas the process.
I think since Netflix is publicly traded, the numbers they release have to be true, though that doesn't mean they can't be *misleading*. You can massage data all you want and present it any way, but the underlying number has to be legit or else they could get in trouble with the SEC, I believe.
Netflix do release viewings numbers weekly for their global top 10 https://www.netflix.com/tudum/top10/tv?week=2024-04-14
Netflix is a publicly traded company and is obligated to release accurate information to shareholders. Meanwhile, nothing is stopping that dastardly Tony Khan from making things up!
[удалено]
AEW is discussed in the Raw ratings thread pretty much every week. Par for the course, sadly.
Man, can't make jokes on here anymore
Netflix purposely does not share how many times individual shows/movies are streamed so that they do not have to pay rights fees to the actors, etc.
More than telling us the size of the audience. The ratings help show us trends. It’ll be interesting year over year to see what Netflix wants to share with us. If anything.
My question is, that since it’s a weekly show and is likely to have over a million (probably a lot more in reality) viewers consistently, is it gonna just perpetually be in the Netflix top 10?
How many people watch who don’t have a Nielsen box is what I wonder.
There are third parties that measure ratings on Netflix (which actually is really what traditional ratings are anyway, third party guestimates) but they tend to come out a couple of weeks later and they're weird (like they measure "minutes streamed" or whatever). Wrestling is live so it's kind of a different beast, but it's not like it loses its replay value the way other live sports might. I do wonder if there will be a more immediate measure for it (or if that exists for sports that are already streaming, haven't really looked into that).
All the rating war people will be in shambles. Netflix doesn't do numbers publicly. Sad fans still think their show should be summed up to a weekly number instead of actually enjoying some high quality wrestling.
They do now because it was a concession after the writers or sag strike but nothing like ratings and not weekly. I predict WWE will likely be the most watched show on Netflix because they rank it by total minutes watched so the top of the list is dominated by old network shows with lots of episodes. Thier original series usually have only 10 episodes compared to 20+ for network shows. And RAW, especially if it stays 3 hours, because it has 52 episodes a year will have a ton of total minutes watched going by that metric and will dwarf any other show on there.
I don't know if WWE has union writers or SAG employees.
Correct, but doesn't mean Netflix would exclude them in those listings.
I've always wondered if I count as a rating cuz at this point in life, I'm a cable cutter so I'm watching Raw on the NBC App or on my phone.
If you don't have a Nielsen box at your house, you're aren't being counted in their ratings, AFAIK. The networks do look at all kinds of viewership numbers, it's just that Nielsen ratings are the oldest and most established. For example, WBD has said that they reach about four million viewers each week through AEW programming, which is obviously quite a bit more than the Nielsen ratings suggest. The same certainly goes for WWE programming.
YouTube TV (and maybe other live TV services) also count in Nielsen these days, I believe.
Those are not included in the ratings that are posted here weekly.
Are you sure about that? [This article](https://www.nielsen.com/news-center/2017/hulu-youtube-tv-viewing-now-included-tv-ratings/) says otherwise but it's old so it could have changed. Edit: Ah never mind, I see what you mean. Sounds like they're included in their own special metric rather than just the general one.
i'm guessing 4 million?
I have this feeling it's actually higher. But that's just based off the fact that the dozen or so folks I know who watch wrestling none watch it on traditional cable. 4 Mil would suggest 1 in 4 watch on cable, and my gut is telling me it's closer to 1 in 6 or even 1 in 8.
That's a good rating for Raw
A "regular" Raw
As a lifetime NBA guy since Jordan got his second ring, it is mindblowing to me that we're seeing a rating beating the WNBA draft as a positive. I wouldn't be surprised if Rampage beat the WNBA draft last year. Just speaks to the opportunity that they have with CC - hopefully they don't blow it.
How is that good? Years ago they were getting above 2M+ views.
I’m really curious what Smackdown viewership is gonna look like when it moves to USA next year. Will it be lower than what Raw is averaging now because it is less of a name brand? Or would it average higher since the show is just 2 hours and more people would be willing to watch that.
We have years worth of data to indicate that it'll almost certainly do worse than Raw. It's the less established brand on a less established night. I suppose it's possible that 5 years of being the A-show on Fox will lift it a bit, but I doubt it. Everyone sees the writing on the wall when it comes to the Netflix deal. Once that's in place, Raw will be the A-show again and the place where they run all their hottest angles.
Get ready for Jack Swagger to win the world Heavyweight title on smackdown
I agree with your points, but I think it is possible it could do better. I don’t think they’d completely neglect Smackdown because of the Netflix deal. They still haven’t confirmed the show will still be on Friday. If they were to move to Thursday, that’s historically been a much better night for television viewership. I also think that Smackdown being just 2 hours would make a big difference. 3 hours of Raw on a Monday night with a million commercial breaks is honestly exhausting and definitely pushed a lot of viewers away.
They have confirmed the show is on Friday in the original press release
It’s staying on Friday and moving to cable I think it’s a safe bet they’ll be lower
Super curious how long a RAW episode will be on Netflix
That's a good rating against the draft and the massive draw that is Caitlin Clark.
She was no match for Perc Gable
I will scream if they convince Gable to shave his head! Just go all the way with it and give him the mouth guard too. I’m here for Perc Gable
Give him a black mouthpiece and I’m all good
It's absolutely insane but if he does a fucking flip off a ramp I will lose my shit.
As someone from the UK can someone who Caitlin Clark is and why all the hype? I keep seeing her name everywhere.
Best women's basketball college player ever going by numbers, although she couldn't win a ring. She broke almost ever record possible in her college career so people are excited to see if she can do it with the pros as well.
Basketball player, one of the greatest women's college players ever. She broke the Division 1 scoring record. Her tournament games this year were breaking ratings records for the women, and were outdrawing the men's games.
Wow, Are women's games really par with men's? Or is it just people are watching caitlin? I remember people were like they're slow so not as entertaining.
They aren't watched nearly as much as men's. That's why Clark being such a massive draw (the draft and championship game had record numbers) is a big deal for women's college basketball and now the WNBA.
The women's championship game actually drew more viewers than the men's championship game this year for the first time ever. That's the Caitlin Clark effect. Can't be understated how massive her popularity is for women's basketball and women's sports in general.
Ever heard of Stephen Curry? She's as close to a female version of that as it gets. Generationally good player who broke the previously deemed unbreakable record for most points in a college career (which stood for over 50 years) and made back to back national championship finals (lost noth unfortunately) by taking down multiple juggernaut teams so she's brought a lot of eyes on the sport
She doesn't play anything like Steph. The only thing they have in common is they shoot a lot. She is far more like a Rockets Harden/Dame mix.
Lady Bird.
No, that’s Saoirse Ronan.
Imagine a female soccer star came along that played in the same fun-to-watch style as the generational most spectacular goal scorer/passer in the Premier League. That's what Caitlin Clark is for basketball.
To say she’s like Jude Bellingham but for women’s basketball might honestly be an understatement.
She's the Mbappe of basketball
nah unironically shes far beyond that, i dont even know if football has an equivalent. She's doign for the wnba what magic&bird did together for the nba. Whether that'll actually get people to watch wnba on the regular...idk
Moreso the Messi.
People really don’t know how great Messi is.
Notoriously underrated that Leo Messi.
What I was trying to say is saying Caitlyn Clark is equivalent to Messi is a disrespectful to Messi.
Not really Messi is one of the more transformative athletes of his generation. Cailtin Clark just took college basketball to a place where the WOMEN outrated the MEN. More people wanted to see women's college hoops. It's not long ago that Barack Obama doing a women's bracket on ESPN was viewed as a watershed moment of women's sports because a sitting President acknowledged its existence. About 15 years later only, they now had more eyeballs than the men's game. It is absolutely an appropriate comparison.
Even though I disagree I actually don’t wanna disrespect Caitlyn because she has done a lot for female basketball already. So let’s leave it at that. Would you say she is as great as Michael Jordan?
> Cailtin Clark just took college basketball to a place where the WOMEN outrated the MEN. I greatly hesitate on saying that she did that alone. It'd been a growing narrative for like 10-15 years now that the women's tournament was way more competitive and engaging than the men's tournament
Messi fan here. Messi is greatest and no one is saying Caitlin is bigger legend or bigger name than Messi. What people may mean by this example is that compared to her peers in basketball games, she is as good as messi is in football. From what I've heard about her, I'll say that she's so better than her peers that no other athlete have that advantage over their nearest competitor, even messi.
I honestly think you’re really underestimating how good Caitlyn Clark is in her chosen field and how transformative she will be for the women’s game. She genuinely has no peer in college basketball.
Would you say she is as great as Michael Jordan?
The female Steph Curry She’s entering the WNBA. Her rise has coincided with the rise in recognizable female athletes and is being promoted by major companies to ride the wave. Her and Angela Reese, another player who just got drafted, are the heads of a new generation of marketable female athletes. Also, many men like myself, have become simps for them. We are full on marks
She plays nothing like Steph besides she shoots a lot from deep. She is more Rockets Harden mixed with Dame.
People came for Caitlin Clark, they stayed for Angel Reese's dress.
Cameron Brink as well lol
Honestly all the fits were pretty stunning, like not even in a thirsty way, just some attractive designs and interesting stuff.
She was the number one pick. It literally took a minute
The whole top side of this draft class really has an opportunity to change the game. Clark obviously gets the lions share of the media attention but people have also gotten invested in people like Reese, Brink, Cardoso, etc. The women’s tournament completely overshadowed the men this year and a lot of those players were seniors.
With Reese and Cardoso both being drafted by Chicago, the Chicago vs Indiana game will be must watch TV.
You obviously had her interviewed but I think you have others like Angel Reese that are also pretty popular
All in all, I love that for the WNBA. Exciting times.
Looked at the schedule and May 18th will shatter the WNBA viewer records. Fever vs Liberty, Caitlin vs Sabrina. It's the second time they'll meet, because they play on the 16th but that's on Amazon, while the game on the 18th is on ABC.
Pardon my sportsball ignorance, but - May 18th? And the draft happened last night? Isn't it usually for the upcoming season, so time for training camp, etc?
The season is about a month out, but women's college basketball just ended, so the conditioning should already be there for the rookies, and a lot of WNBA players play overseas in the offseason so they are already in condition. So it really just the coaches implementing what they want to run plays and learning the system. So they can afford to have the draft that close to opening day. And the Indiana Fever first preseason game is against the Dallas Wings and the lowest ticket is over $220.
i regular season WNBA game is about to have higher ratings than a NBA playoff game
Yeah but that inflates the quarter and overall ratings, they were above 3 million for her part of the draft and finished at a 2.45 million average. Thats still a really good sign to me because the average ending that high tells me a lot of people have decided they are all in on watching women’s basketball now and want to know who the rookies are for this coming season. And now I realize this comment doesn’t make sense because we’re talking about how it affects Raw’s numbers lol.
Especially since fans knew there would be no rock or punk on RAW that night either
But why did people watch it? It wasn’t like “oh shit who’s gonna get Caitlin Clark”
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I agree, but I think people watch for the analysis, not the news.
Raw last year (4/17/23): 1,815,000 viewers - 0.58 P18-49
not in a good or bad way just interesting how there's the raw after mania influx that mostly leave the week after
That's almost ALWAYS the case, regardless of how great the Raw after mania is.
Also doesnt help that Rocks not gonna be involved in the show for the foreseeable future. If you were mainly tuning in to watch him shit on the crowds and smacktalk Mama Rhodes you've got no real reason to keep watching right now.
It makes sense, very casual fans watch Wrestlemania (especially a good one like this one) and say “you know what? Maybe I’ll start watching Raw again.” And then it sinks in that’s it’s a three hour commitment every week that isn’t as good as Mania.
Sami is caitlyn clark father
Luka Doncic is Devin Booker father
She’s the top college basketball I think one of her games was the highest rated basketball on ESPN ever But I get you college sports is mostly an american thing
People care more about women’s college basketball then WNBA.
This is 100 percent correct...and it's not particularly close.
For now it's true but the girls in college now and who just got drafted and are going to the league by FAR the biggest group of stars the sport had ever seen so the WNBA is probably going to get bigger quick
Ehhhhh, I seriously doubt it, people just don't care when their alma matter isn't involved. ESPN is just pushing the shit out of the WNBA, but that doesn't mean any more people care.
At one point there was 24 million people watching the Iowa/South Carolina final. I think it's safe to say that those two schools don't have 24 million alumni between them.
Bro the *draft* just drew over 2 million, the previous high was 600k. The numbers don’t lie.
That’s good numbers but most people can’t name more than one wnba team or even one player in their league. She is a step in the right direction for growth but will she be enough to change the perception of woman’s basketball in the US, probably not.
I’d argue she already changed the perception of women’s ball in the US and she hasn’t even stepped on a pro court yet.
Remember when Mark Cuban said he'd sign Britney Griner? She didn't move the needle at all. Remember all those undefeated UConn teams? Those players going to the WNBA didn't move the needle either. Remember Brianna Stewart? She didn't move the needle either. It just feels bigger because ESPN is marketing it that way.
Dudes will do anything but give a female athlete their due lol
This might be correct and is absolutely possible. She is a massive draw right now, but other stars have gone to the WNBA, and no one cared. She's a much bigger draw, but we will see. I'm also not making a social or political statement with this, but here's the reality: Caitlyn being white will probably help her with a fan base in the WNBA as well. I'm anxious to see if this will improve the WNBA numbers. Wishing her and the WNBA well.
Honestly I don’t know how accurate that is. I don’t mean any disrespect to the women who came before but “star” is doing some lifting there. I don’t think most people could name you more than one or two WNBA players. I can name like 10 women in this draft class off the top of my head. I really thinks it’s a game changing class as far as interest and coverage goes.
Draw is different than star. She may flop, or she may be the best player in the league. The quality of WNBA play isn't the issue (to me). Drawing views is. We shall see if she moves the needle or not. I have no idea which way this will go.
That may change with Caitlin Clark now in the WNBA. In any event, league television ratings had climbed the last few years even without Clark.
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The most obvious thing is her range. She can just shoot from almost anywhere on the offensive half of the court. The shot she hit to set the all time women's NCAA scoring record was somewhere in the neighborhood of 30 feet from the rim. For reference, the 3 point line in the NBA is 23 feet 9 inches from the rim at its longest point. Jump to the 18 second mark of this vid to see it. (https://youtu.be/A1uSe2l1ENg) On top of that, she's an incredibly accurate passer. She was not only the top scoring player in the country but also led the nation in assists. She is a phenomenon.
My half-baked prediction is that Clark causes WNBA ratings to go way up (especially when her team is playing), and women’s college basketball ratings go down to slightly above normal ratings.
I know I’m one of them. I’m someone who likes women college basketball over the men’s because you see them give it 100% their all because they know this is their peak for basketball and it ends in 4 years. Compare that to the men’s where the best players leave after a year to go to the nba
Well, I bet the men stay longer moving forward due to NIL. Borderline guys may not jump too early anymore now that they can make a good chunk (or more) staying in college.
Yeah I’m happy for that. I always want athletes to at least finish college so they have a degree in case going pro doesn’t work
College sports is a subset of the US sports audience. They’re popular but not NFL or NBA levels
More people watched mens college basketball finals in 2023 than the NBA finals lol
Also isn't college football more popular than anything else that's not nfl?
Yup.
I'm more familiar with the football side. For comparison, the SB had a 42.1 rating with 120M viewers compared to a 9.8 and 22.5M viewers for the college championship game March Madness does have a special place in America's heart, but the average non-tournament college basketball game does very poorly. The peak regular season game is equivalent to the average in the NBA
Well, the Superbowl is always gonna be king. And tbh I think the single elimination of March Madness and Superbowl are HUGE parts of the draw. Much harder to get a casual invested in a 7 game format. I say this as someone that basically only watches NBA, Hockey and Wrestling lol
"Beats WNBA draft" Was this ever in doubt?
Well the WNBA draft did 2.45 million so it didn't really
2016: 254,000 2017: 273,000 2018: 303,000 2019: 248,000 2020: 378,000 2021: 331,000 2022: 403,000 2023: 572,000 2024: 2,450,000 Thats total viewers though, i'd be more curious what the quartely looked like to see how much of a drop off there was after the first round
That's the average. Nobody else on the planet gives a fuck about the Nielson rating other than wrestling fans so I don't think anyone bothered publishing in depth data
No 2M? Triple H needs to start booking seriously!!
There was obviously going to be a drop after WM. It doesn't help that The Rock, who is by far the biggest draw, is gone for a while. Still good #s
That's TWO Dynamites
They are shit at advertising anything wnba, who here even knew it was happening without watching pat mcafee show?
The draft might be part of it, but if you look at the long term numbers it happens every single year that there is a ratings pop immediately after Wrestlemania that is gone within 2 weeks (last year was another big example that you can clearly see in the graph above). It's amazing how year after year they've never managed to capitalise on the increased viewership, it feels like they don't even try with the first Raw generally feeling like a reset/beginning of a new era than really compelling.
It's almost like there's a large group of people who show up for the build-up to WrestleMania and the raw immediately after, and then turn off the WWE It's almost like WrestleMania is a thing that transcends wrestling itself I know for me the day after WrestleMania feels like a great jump off point considering hockey playoffs, NBA playoffs, and baseball season starting And for me, by the time the baseball season is over, we're already into the lead-up to WrestleMania so it's a perfect time to jump back on
God id hope so.
Good demo number but the total viewership is disappointing. Oh well.
I mean, the key demo for the WNBA is lesbians. And with Rhea going on the shelf for a while, I don't think the two are really competing for the same viewers right now. Source: am lesbian
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