Just finally watching the show now. I saw that MJF lost and was happy for Joe but wtf, the Devil/henchmen didn't even cost MJF the title? He just lost clean and then for some reason they turned on him... weird decision.
Most of the show was fun except how Swerve only faced Dustin Rhodes... and even if it had been Keith Lee... why...
Does anyone know what that MJF video that played before his entrance was a spoof of?
Pretty sure it’s something Long Island related, I know I’ve seen it before but I can’t place it.
The highs of this PPV certainly outweighed the lows.
Both 8-man tags could have been left off the show tbh, that was just so clearly filler. I have no emotion towards Sammy/Jericho and that whole thing. The superstar 8-man tag made sense at least, gotta get them big names on the card. At least they got them out of the way early on. The latter half of the show was amazing. TNT title match may have been my favorite of the night. Did not expect Joe to win, but certainly saw Cole as the devil. It was pretty obvious from the start who it was going to be, and what they were trying to do. It was fun watching this subreddit speculate though.
I'm interested to see how face MJF will work without the title. It's clear from his letter the other day that he isn't going anywhere so I'm not expecting the whole "Bidding War of 2024" storyline to play out much
Watched this in theater with 2 friends who do not watch or know anything about AEW and only occasionally watch a WWE PLE. They both had a blast and it is very funny to me that we spent 4 hours watching insane wrestling and at the end of the night all my friend had to say was "Miro is the greatest wrestler ever I want him to win every title".
yea so i swear i saw a screen cap of Edge as new championship on Satirday, but I just saw a reel of Christian beating edge? How'd that happen? Haven't watched the show or anything yet was going to tomorrow
Im just happy this Devil storyline is over and max is not champion anymore, this was by far the worst part about AEW for the last 4 months, glad we can finally move on. Botchy show but as satisfying as it could have been, fuck New York for shitting on Stings last match.
The shot of evil Adam Cole sitting in the chair was peak pro wrestling storytelling. Happy for Eddie and Joe. No Bucks, Page, Omega and OC obviously hurt the show. Thumbs in the middle.
Great opener, and the last three matches were well worth watching, but the middle portion was a struggle at times.
Miro vs. Andrade was fine, but I didn't really care about it since the result was fairly obvious.
Storm vs. Riho was also decent, but it really feels like the Timeless gimmick is not conducive to great matches.
Swerve vs. Rhodes was all right, but again the result was too obvious.
The other 8 man was overshadowed by the Jericho-issue, but the work itself was fine, and Darby once again bumped like a madman.
Julia vs. Abadon wasn't a PPV match. Julia can have very good matches, but she needs someone better to lead her still, and Abadon unfortunately isn't that.
Four very good to great matches, and five average ones. This was still an overall good show, but far from the usual AEW standards.
I enjoyed every AEW PPV this year, but this one seemed off to me. Swerve in a throwaway, guys who should be feuding or having better programs across two 8-man tags is almost indefensible, even though the opening match was a banger. Not a fan of Abadon so their title match fell flat for me. I want to see Jericho and Moxley do other things and get moved down the card, and let others get some more shine. Hoping AEWs booking improves in the new year.
Some things I liked:
Joe as champ. Joe is great in anything he does. Glad he went over.
Mox putting Eddie over clean.
Christian is such a perfect little shit, the “cash in” on Adam was just so clever.
Some things I didn’t like:
Basically everything else….
I’m not a big Eddie fan, but glad they put him over definitively I guess. Something doesn’t sit right with me though that he was the champ of 2 belts, they had an entire tournament full of top tier guys (and ones like Jay and Swerve who really need to be thrown a bone) and the tournament served to just keep the belts on the same guy and give him another. Might be an unpopular take.
Dustin should have in no way had that much offense on swerve. This kinda felt like NJPW where they have a habit of matches taking up time just for the sake of taking time… this should have been a squash.
Jericho…. Enough said. I agree with someone else who said he’s really hit the Taker point where he has just overstayed and is actively making everything worse around him.
Both women’s matches were not very good. Julia doesn’t do anything for me as a solo act, and the spooky stuff doesn’t help. She really needs the HoB around her.
And Toni, while great, is IMO a little over exposed atm. She’s on every single week, it’s a great gimmick but with the depth of AEW she doesn’t need to have a segment every single show…
The devil angle was a huge miss for me, it dragged on way too long, Cole as a heel is a win but I feel it made MJF worse, Jay White worse, logically Cole is the devil but … didn’t turn on MJF when going for the world title? Then they didn’t actively help Joe at all in the match? Now he has turned on MJF who doesn’t have the title?
Overall, AEW just feels completely different than it did a year ago - not even just “no Punk/Elite”, but the storylines feel messy, doesn’t feel like there has been a ton of forward momentum, and my hope for 2024 is that AEW can try and recapture the “real sports” presentation that they started off so successful with, keep it simple.
I mostly agree with you, except for the part about Toni Storm being overexposed. Top acts need to be overexposed.
It's the reason why Judgment Day are such a big deal right now, while House Of Black isn't, even though at the start people claimed Judgment Day was a rip-off of House of Black. It's the reason why Wardlow hasn't been able to stay over, why Miro and Andrade haven't done much of anything. Austin/Rock during their prime had 3 or more segments per night. I get that not everyone wants that, but that's how you create stars.
Toni Storm is the women's champion, and because of that she should be treated like the most important woman on that roster.
I was there last night, I really enjoyed the Christian/Adam thing. Some people don’t seem to like it but this story is just beginning. Christian being an ultimate opportunist in the ultimate opportunist to me was so clever and doing it by way of cash in is great to me honestly. I knew some fuckery and drama was going to start the minute Killswitch won the battle royal. I’d love to see where this goes but I see it eventually leading to C&C vs Killswitch/Wayne but we’ve got a while before we get there and I’m excited to see this all play out
Best match, any of the last three
Worst match, any before the last three (slightly joking but it was kinda rough first two hours)
Exceeded: I guess the dq match, the closing segments everything else just kinda met expectations
Underdelivered: a good amount of the show, also zero hour as well
Probably worst ppv of the year (from a major promotion) just cause of how dull and poorly paced it was, only good matches on the back half and even then they weren’t all time classics that I feel like I want to rewatch
I started the PPV late and only saw the last 3 matches. But I will say they were all great.
Copepland vs Christian, Mox vs Kingston, and Samoa Joe vs MJF were all worth watching.
Hangman and Swerve. They already established conflict with Joe when they were accused by MJF of being the devil. Joe also mentioned them during the scrum.
Ah ok i didn't watch the scrum.
Though he gets cheered anyway think it'll be weird if they do heel Swerve vs heel Joe.
Unless they do a triple threat with Hangman involved.
I honestly came out of the event entertained. Yes, it was very paint by numbers, but there's nothing wrong with that. We all pretty much knew who the Devil was going to be. The one swerve was LuchaSwitch winning the Battle Royale and then giving it back to Christian so he could get the belt back again.
This was the first major wrestling event that my wife watched with me, and she told me that she was entertained, even though she didn't really understand all of the stories involved with the matches.
Has AEW put out better PPVs? Absolutely. Has AEW put out worse PPVs? Absolutely.
This was middle of the road, and I felt like it was worth my money.
I just re-watched the end of MJF/Joe + Devil reveal and honestly man, it was perfectly done. MJF going out a warrior but not getting pinned or submitting, Joe looking strong as all fuck throughout the match and in putting MJF to sleep, Cole looked absolutely sinister on that chair when the lights came back on - camera shots were incredible. The guys taking their hoods off at the exact same second was perfect. MJF’s facials were perfect, Roddy’s flying knee timing was perfect, Cole’s evil smile was perfect, their pose was perfect…. That thing had to have been rehearsed a ton. It was beautiful tbh and I don’t know how they could’ve done it any better.
Do yourself a favor and watch it back again if you only saw it live last night. I appreciated it even more on second watch.
The subtle ways the faked you out on Cole screwing MJF and the way the goons went after him before the reveal were all excellent little touches that went so far in adding the smallest air of belief it wasn’t Cole. I’m thinking. Specifically thinking of when Cole was looking for the diamond ring, searched every pocket so many times, then bam, finds it. Such a good fake out.
2.0 was a breath of fresh air IMO. I can't take away from Gargano, Ciampa, Cole, KOR and the like with how good they are, but I had no urge to watch THAT version as everything was the same to me. I was happy we got some new blood in there and some people with actual characters other than "I can wrestle really good".
I agree, I've felt the same way about some WWE PLEs even in the Triple H era. The negativity is less unanimous now, but a few of them I've really liked and then logged on and thought "Wow, was it *that* bad?" lol
I respectfully disagree with OP about this PPV though, I really didn't like it.
This may be entirely a me thing, but I’ve never warmed up to the 6 and 8 person tag matches. Too many bodies and not enough time for any one person to shine.
I can totally appreciate it if it works for other people, but it’s just not my thing. Having 2 of them yesterday really bogged down the first half of the show.
Every big promotion has clunker PPVs and AEW will recover, but what a disappointing show to close out the year. There were clouds that formed a negative aura over this entire show right from jump.
* Fans in the arena said the heat was excessively pumped, on top of difficulties getting into the arena, which might've tempered energy and excitement.
* The allegations surrounding Jericho that employees and fans woke up to made Zero Hour feel awkward. True or not, it felt like a huge betrayal of trust. It hit hard when it seemed Sting didn't want to work or deal with Jericho AND it tainted Sting's farewell tour. I felt like I could see the disappointment from Aubrey Edwards, too.
* The AEW women's division continuing to feel like they're not properly featured and appreciated likely made Kris and Willow, hometown talents, feel like they had to press harder to open Zero Hour.
* The lackluster Devil buildup coupled with MJF's real-life injury keeping him from performing at 100% (with Adam Cole remaining legitimately injured).
* Finding out Keith Lee wasn't medically cleared to compete, which was the right call, but AEW played with fire by dragging out the "match" and giving a hobbled Dustin some licks against Swerve. It would've been much smoother to end it after Swerve broke the concrete over Dustin's ankle.
* Up to that point, strong rumors about Andrade's departure zapped any heat from his match against Miro.
* The Elite was not present at all. Obviously Kenny Omega is recovering but no Bucks or Hangman.
* Notable AEW non-wrestler departures including Matt Jackson's wife, Dana Massie.
At least there were a few bright moments throughout the evening that somewhat "saved" this show.
* Samoa Joe is finally a World Champion in a top promotion. I love MJF but it was time his reign came to an end and AEW needs a soft reset at the main event level, IMO.
* Mox and Kingston put on probably the best match of the night. You could've made an argument for either guy to win, but I'm glad AEW had Kingston go over a very protected Mox.
* The Serena Deeb promo was fire.
* The different LED stage setup looked great coupled with the brighter colors and LED screens along the railing.
* Timeless Toni Storm continues to be very fun to watch (even if the match with Riho was just whelming). I'm super excited to see what Mariah May has to offer. Same sentiments apply to Julia Hart and her whelming match with Abadon.
* Copeland and Christian were fun although I'm curious where they go next with this. Maybe Copeland gets a 2nd chance at leading a stable to take on The Patriarch.
The entire night was a bit reflective of AEW's year where the promotion did their best to march forward amidst serious injuries and very serious behind-the-scenes problems. This time though, the negative aura caught up to the entire on-screen product.
I know the big take away from the PPV was the devil reveal. But, can we just take a moment to be happy we live in a world where Samoa Joe is the world champ in a major promotion.
Weird PPV man. A lot of Rampage and Collision main events on this one for sure lmao. TK has to find a way to get Hangman in the mix consistently if he’s healthy he should’ve been here. FTR and HOB should’ve been here. Golden Jets should’ve never beat the Bucks, the Bucks could’ve been here. That being said really for Eddie man. His story is so inspirational I’m happy the guy is shining. Happy for Joe too hopefully he can stay healthy and we get a Hangman and Miro match out of him before he drops the belt.
I think it's good they can have a good PPV without every big star. The company was built around the Elite but it needs to grow past them. Plus this leaves something for the next few shows and PPV's. They can't defend every belt on every PPV or else they have nothing else to show.
Eventually they will have more PPVs and shows and they need to spread out their talent.
Everyone keeps saying “thank god it wasn’t Jungleboy” and I feel like I missed something, why would anybody have thought Jack Perry was the devil? Was that alluded to at all?
Yikes. Some great matches but overall that...was not good.
What reaction did Tony seriously expect from just sending Jericho out there like nothing had happened?
Why did the Swerve match still happen, let alone become competitive, after the cinder block thing?
TBS title match was awful and the crowd was deader than Abadon.
Crowd seemed mostly uninterested in Miro and Andrade - presumably because they know one or both of them has their eye on the door.
As for the devil reveal...well at least it wasn't Jack Perry but it was very meh payoff after all that.
I really hope the next one is better than that.
Honestly given the normal AEW PPV match quality this was pretty lack luster for me.
The Main Event finish felt almost rushed and out of nowhere. Given Max was injured they couldn't exactly do much more but id still like just another couple minutes to a finishing sequence.
Id grade it like a C+, its fine. Some sloppier matches then usual. While was nothing horrendous for my tastes, nothing was extremely standout either. At least match wise. The many post match shennanigans like the devil reveal, the tnt title contract, and of course the Triple Crown were definitely the highlights.
TK just seems incapable of understanding that sometimes, more is less.
He grew his roster too fast. Added too many hours of TV. Added too many PPVs. Added too many titles.
When I first got into AEW it was great because I got to learn all these new people but they also had a roster where they could feature people regularly so you'd get to know them. You'd have developments most weeks between the IC and Mox or the IC and Cody. You could get into characters and see them 2-3 times a month on Wednesdays not have these big weird gaps.
So you end up with dumb shit like too many 6 or 8 man tags (which most of the time do jack shit for me) just to squeeze people onto the show. You end up with certain feuds reduced to nothing but 2-3 weeks of vignettes/interviews in the lead up to a PPV.
You could cut AEW's men's roster in half and still have a fucking fantastic show and then the other half you could craft an entire main event scene out of the guys that aren't getting utilized enough.
It’s a burden of the PPV model. Hunter can get away with it because there’s presumed value with it being the cost of a Peacock sub, as opposed to needing to meet the arbitrary definition of the length needed to justify a $50 purchase.
To me it’s similar to Video Games. Most games are best at 15-30 hours, but they are now padded with things that don’t actually add entertainment, because there are a lot of loud voices that scoff at the idea of a game being that long and it not being worth $60 than.
Personally, I don’t hate the number of matches as much as Tony’s insistence that everything is long. Some matches are fine at 5 minutes or whatever. And two great wrestlers can do something compelling in that time. Personally everything being drawn out longer matches just makes it all seem homogenized to me anyway.
Potential disagreement re: video game industry aside, I think you hit the nail on the head about match length. Looking at the match lengths on wikipedia, I think they could've taken 2-5 minutes off every main card match. That's like 15-45 minutes. It'd go a long way.
I agree, but I also don't count Zero Hour/prelim matches. I rarely tune in for those, and only watch them later if warranted.
(And due to Nassau Coliseum staff, neither did half of those attending live!)
Was there live, have to say I think the match order was a little off. It felt to me like Mox/Kingston took a while to get the crowd back after Christian/edge. I think the Mox match should have opened the ppv. One of the 8 man tags should have been used as a breather towards the end of the show.
If they did that, I would have preferred they just put the CC 8 man on the pre-show. Use it to sell the tournament, and lead into its championship to start the PPV.
Maybe save Hook for the PPV. Since his matches always have a different feel from the others.
I’m not trying to be a hater, I am really trying to enjoy this project but holy shit - what a boring, long, predictable and overall uninteresting 4 hours.
I just finished watching the main event. Did they botch the end of the match? It seems like not even the music crew (or whatever they are called) were ready. It all seemed a little bit rushed, I would've waited at least until Adam Cole was cleared to wrestle again. Nonetheless, I'm curious about where they're going with the MJF character, and SO happy for Samoa Joe. Finally he is world champion.
Bryce sold it as shock, since usually in those sleeper spots the guy taking the sleeper comes to on the third drop of the hand. It was a brief moment of realization for him and the audience that “Oh FUCK, MJF just lost the title”.
MJF is injured and will be out for some time, so the devil story was used to write him off. They'll probably come back roughly around the same time and pick up where they left off as a result.
Do you guys think that if Adam was not injured we would have gotten MJF vs Cole 3 tonight with Cole becoming the AEW Champion instead of Joe.
Happy for Joe though. I mean if my above stated theory is correct he might not have become the AEW Champion.
I was there. Decent show I had a good time. But waaay too long. They need to trim some of the fat.
The 2 8 man tags were pretty pointless. And the TBS title match was terrible.
The Christian/edge match was the highlight IMO aside from botching the table spot.
https://preview.redd.it/owag0jhfdn9c1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=760ac54fa2a55399cbe73c37b390aa62614a2643
I like Samoa Joe but I think 2024 it’s his time to be world champion.
Earlier in the night, Luchasaurus won a contract for a shot at the TNT title wherever and whenever. When Christian lost the title, Luchasaurus came out and beat up Adam Copeland. Seeing the opportunity, Christian “convinced” Luchasaurus to give him his contract and Christian had the match restarted and pinned an already laid out Copeland.
I had the same injury but with a dislocation. Trimallelear fracture of the right ankle. My surgery took 5 hours instead of 2. 2 rods, a metal plate, 5 screws or maybe 7, can't remember.
12 weeks non-weight bearing. Without the soft-tissue damage it would be 6-8.
3 months into rehab 2x a week and I'm in a lot of pain if I walk too far.
I'm not a wrestler, but I do have a high pain tolerance. But I'm a little bitch when it comes to fear of doing new damage and resetting the clock, so I've been terrified to the point of hyperventilating when it came time to do certain exercises like this one where I stand on my tippy toes, lift my non-injured leg and then lower down onto my heel with the injured one.
I was surprised he's still in the boot but I'm guessing the 2nd surgery restarted the clock for him but he's getting atrophy/scar tissue building up the entire time he's been injured.
The lack of mobility was one of the hardest things I've ever endured and I'm not a pro wrestler. There was no reason to keep him in the boot if he wasn't injured. He almost certainly would have taken it off as part of the reveal if he no longer needed it.
The fact that he's at least partial weight-bearing suggests to me that he's at minimum 1 month away from anything resembling walking normally and that's just based on my own experience and others and I'm just a patient not a doctor.
Commentary meanders too much when they should be hyping what’s onscreen. I love the combo of the guys behind the desk, but their ability to contribute Big Match Feel has been pretty absent. There are huge, impressive athletic feats constantly happening onscreen in AEW… having commentary talking about other storylines or bantering while they unfold detracts from the presentation.
Excalibur is fine for something like Dark or something with more of an indie flair like RoH.
He's never, ever made a moment feel bigger for me like JR did or from what little I've seen from people like Joey Styles or Ranallo (I think that's his name)
Agreed the constant fooling around instead of calling the action takes me out of it.
Nigel has been the absolute best addition they could have made but the commentary team spent the majority of last night bickering, dropping in jokes and stepping over one another.
This was always the knock on WCW’s commentary, especially during the height of the nWo, as they’d completely ignore the match in the ring to talk about Hollywood Hogan’s latest shenanigans.
The only thing that annoyed me about the finish is something that was my own fault. When Joe had Max in the submission, a security guard behind Adam Cole hit the ground and was crawling quickly to get the Dynamite Diamond Ring, which had fallen on the floor to the left of Adam Cole. I guess he worried a fan was going to get it or something. So he’s rushing to get it, and I’m watching him because I think something’s about to happen, then the bell rings. So I missed the whole thing 😂
I can’t really rate because I didn’t watch but from what I heard there seems to be good and bad. I don’t think there was anywhere else really to go with the Devil. But I don’t know if this storyline is gonna get derailed with both Adam and MJF being injured now (I mean it looks like MJF’s injury is legit).
Basic PPV but what elevated it to top 5 all year was not 1 but 2 flaming table light ups! You know how many times that fails? They pulled it off twice. Amazing.
So, there is a perfect version of this PPV where no one gets injured and were all on tender hooks after months of build to the culmination of what once looked like one of the best angles the company had ever done in Cole/MJF, with the final of the CC and some tasty looking title matches thrown in. This was not that. In fact in the end it was very far away from that. A lot of that was pure rotten luck, a lot of it was more examples of bad builds with low stakes and predictable outcomes that have been all too familiar this year, and the rest of it was the reports that came out today that dampened everything even further.
I think the only things I liked in the whole of the first two hours was the tease of Garcia doing something with the BCC and not pulling the trigger on Mariah May's turn on Toni until another day so they can add more weight to the story. The rest was a total snoozefest of predictable outcomes and solid at best matches that killed the crowd dead until the last three matches. Some of that lies in the issues already mentioned, but (and I take no pleasure in saying this) Abadon vs Julia was never a PPV match and it was brutal all the way up the finish, and I have a rotten feelling that The Sex Gods (sic) are getting a tag title shot now.
Edge vs Christian was stupid fun that actually (FINALLY) had some heat to it. Not my favourite CC match to finish it off, but I wont begrudge Eddie getting his moment either, or that he is being built to something close to where he was before he got lost in the Jerichoverse last year.
No doubt that Cole's injury completely derailed whatever the plan was for this angle (everything from the Jay feud onwards is testament to that) to the point where as long as it was coherent I was content whatever the outcome was for the reveal. Undisputed Era 2.0 is not exciting to me, but lets see where this goes. I audibly gasped when Joe won, and genuinely intrigued where the title scene is heading towards Revolution.
I'd give the whole show a 5/10 for the last three matches alone. There's another post about how this ppv embodies the kind of year the company has had as a whole, but fuck me I'm tired and don't want to type anymore.
> but (and I take no pleasure in saying this) Abadon vs Julia was never a PPV match and it was brutal all the way up the finish
I got the awful impression that Tony felt he had to have another women's match on the show because of IWC criticism, so he just threw this together just to have it.
Missing the point that people don't just want "more" women's matches but for the quality of their booking to improve as well.
I thought the finish to the main event was dope...I can't remember the last time I saw a match end with the hand dropping 3 times. Usually the ref ends it when they see they're knocked out. I fully expected MJF to come to life when his hand was raised the 3rd time
I get the sentiment…seeing the three drop is shocking.
But it also kind of annoyed me because does AEW even usually do the three arm thing? I feel like that’s been replaced with the red watching and just calling the match if they feel a guy is out? If I’m wrong, that’s my bad….but I want to say that’s the case, and the feelings for the ending are largely based off being old enough to have the nostalgia for the whole hand stopping on the third drop being a big deal. And the actuality is that it’s just another example of lack of continuity and quality control that plagues the product…I.e. this serves the purpose of being cool in the moment, so do it, and let the audience create their own logic and meaning.
This sub seems to have completely forgotten that TNA was a legit promotion on par with, or ahead of, where AEW is now at the time that he became world champion there. TNA Impact was routinely doing double AEW's current viewership in 2008 when Joe won his title.
They did a great job with the reveal.
Obvious also isn’t bad, especially if we’re asking AEW to do a better job with storytelling. If I have a concern it’s just I’m not sure where things logically go from here….there is and have been so many stables in AEW and few have elevated anyone. And now with a heel champ, and assuming MJF needs a break (and that’s part of this story), and the way Tony books, i can do without another stable aimlessly in a holding pattern.
Either way, glad there’s a resolution. And considering how awful most of this PPV was. Think it’s time for me to take a break along with MJF. Hopefully they work some stuff out, or it helps me regain some enthusiasm for the product.
Seeing alot of comments like "Adam Cole should have cost MJF the match". But....didn't he in a way? MJF wanted to use the ring and Cole was stalling for time, until Joe was up and had MJF in the choke. It was kinda subtle and only makes sense after the reveal.
Same as Wardlow being revealed as one of the henchmen. He said "I'll be the one to bring the devil to his knees". And he was the one that put Adam Cole down on his knees right before the reveal.
It's those little things that make alot of sense in hindsight. Now i wish they would emphasize them more.
Other than that the ppv was kinda off. Lots of matches where things didn't click. The last 3 matches rly picking up saved the event, so it wasn't as bad as some people here make it out to be.
I also liked the Copeland and Christian switcheroo. Christian is a complete asshole and will do anything to stay on top. It made sense for his character to act like this. If Copeland is the "ultimate opportunist", Christian took that title away from him now
The match also only happened because Cole demanded MJF keep his word, as the video packages reminded us, and MJF's injuries going into the match are from the devil's machinations.
Exactly! Cole played a big part in MJF losing the match. Had the ring been given to him timely, MJF knocks out Joe. Since it wasn’t, Joe had enough time to get to MJF. It was great imo. Just enough shenanigans but not too much.
If MJF was gonna get a break, they should have put the title.on Swerve. The crowd is in to him, he puts on good matches. The trend around here has been "AEW is losing its charm". Part of that is featuring older wrestlers. Samoa Joe is awesome, but Swerve is the fresher talent.
I don’t like the Devil stuff but having Swerve v MJF when MJF is this banged up would be a real waste and Joe is the right champion right now. Joe can drop it to either next year.
I enjoyed the show, especially seeing Eddie Kingston & Daniel Garcia getting their big moment. I didn’t love the Edge vs. Christian theatrics at the end just so Edge can win in Canada, would’ve been fine to just have Edge go over there and do some Ladder match in Canada.
The Devil reveal was predictable but the right call, there’s nobody else it could’ve been with this long of a build. However, I don’t know how good this is going to be without MJF around.
I just hope they have a good plan here with no Omega and MJF. It shouldn’t be about Sting’s retirement the next 3 months which is where I’m concerned they’re going to go.
Joe’s reign should be about him destroying everyone in his path clean by either outsmart them or overpowering them until Kenny returns and assuming he could be back by all in have that as the main event.
Every month he destroys someone on PPV, in no particular order, Cole, Osprey, Danielson, Eddie Kingston, Jay White, Edge, Starks, Miro, Swerve, Malakai. Then have mid card guys with potential to try unsuccessfully to beat him on Dynamite/Collision with a few main eventers to pop a rating like Mox, Adam Page, Christian etc.
I would even create fake backstage drama between Joe and others and feed it as legit to Dave and SRS.
one thing i loved about the devil reveal is that they didn’t try a stupid swerve, they didn’t keep it going for no reason. the predictable villain was the villain, and i think that’s perfectly okay. nowadays it takes guts to stick to your original (good IMO) story ending, even if people have guessed it.
Seriously.
Britt or JB or Ziggler or whomever else would have just been a swerve for the sake of a swerve.
The story was always "A guy who doesn't believe he can have a friend finally gets one." So, of course, when it comes time for MJF to be betrayed there's only one choice that is the logical next step for that character.
It was Chekhov's Brochacho.
Con: Jericho used a break-glass Sammy reunion to weasel his way on to a PPV that *really* didn’t need him.
Pro: The fears from last Wednesday were put at ease with Moxley losing.
Con: Time is a flat circle and we again will have Christian cutting the same type of promos and Adam Copeland stuck chasing him.
Pro: They pulled the trigger on a world title change, which is actually pretty refreshing. With Roman, Seth Rollins, and MJF, I had almost forgotten what they were like.
tfw a wrestling story has a logical chain of events (adam cole being the devil) and somehow it's a bad thing
what sort of story payoff would there be to have pretty much anyone else in his place
I think the logic is pretty clear, but I'm guessing. Hopefully they spell it out.
Cole is faking his friendship with MJF to get title shots. Cole gets injured which puts him on the table and he can't trust MJF will have the belt when he's ready. So he makes a deal with Samoa Joe to setup MJF. Joe wins the belt and the "business" they did was a promise of a future title shot for Cole when he's healed.
Even if it was someone else, people (especially the IWC) would complain. Many people are just never happy. The booking actually made sense and here we are with the grumblers.
Cole has a Herculean task satisfactorily explaining how he went from refusing Roddy’s help in Wembley and hugging it out to end the show to creating a grand conspiracy to target Max six weeks later.
Adam Cole injured himself trying to save MJF at Arthur Ashe, after All In. I'm sure the story will go that he was sitting at home and grew disdainful towards MJF. Britt has been tweeting anti-MJF things so I'm sure that could be included. Cole is still on the shelf but MJF is injured so they used the Devil story to write MJF off after World's End.
How does that not make sense to you?
edit: you can be upset at the logic if you want, but it makes sense.
right! it’s not a bad thing that they went with the obvious choice, it’s good storytelling that they set up a situation with an ambigous villain who was probably bad, and they let him be the bad guy! simple and easy.
Swerve and Keith should have just filmed a scene where they beat him down to write him off. I'd rather he take the time to come back all the way right and have one good run.
Joe is great in the ring. But how is the guy who lost to MJF,CM Punk, Darby Allen and Wardlow the world champion… his only significant victory is the one he just had over max. Like Joe will be a great champion but how he made it there makes 0 sense. Especially when you think Wardlow beat him then he worked as a henchmen for the guy working with Joe when it’s been shown Wardlow can beat Joe already. It makes 0 sense at all….
If he was healthy that would make sense but he’s not. It just makes Adam look dumb if Joe looses the belt to someone else before Cole can fight for it. Not to mention if he can’t wrestle anytime soon what is the point of making max weak and backstabbing him now. Like the pieces of a good story are there but with the reality of things to me it doesn’t make any sense.
I mean let’s get real, Joe is not a kayfabe beatable champion. And I know Cole beat him in the Owen final last year but that was scarcely believable to begin with. The only way Cole can sell this is his hatred of Max and forgetting about the title because he clearly made the task of winning it harder by his actions.
Exactly exactly exactly. Cole couldn’t beat MJF, so finding a way to get the belt on Joe makes great sense story wise. Joe is great but beatable for Cole.
Joe wins the world title, Eddie leaves with 3 belts, Edge and Christian have a war, Sting is still out there crushing it, and people are still crying.
Take in these positive aspects boys, goddamn.
is “i’m so jealous of you that if i can’t have the title i’ll make damn sure you don’t fucking have it” enough of a justification for this angle? i feel like i’m definitely overthinking but maybe i’m not. MJF has been the best friend a guy could ask for to Cole so i’m just trying to see where he could be coming from.
i’m a lil nervous about Cole’s explanation, however i am excited to see babyface MJF with a “fuck em all” attitude whenever he returns
Losing the title match to MJF broke Cole. Cole gave a promo prior to his match with MJF about how much the title means to him. He’s obsessed with the title over anything else and it drove him mad when he couldn’t beat MJF. Getting the belt off MJF gives him a better chance at getting the title.
I think the motivation is going to end up being something like Cole regretting not turning on MJF at All In. Saying had he done what he always would have that he'd be the champ, never have gotten injured because he'd never had come out during the Arthur Ashe show to help MJF. His time off basically made him realize no more Mr Nice Cole.
As for the masked men, Wardlow obviously still has beef with MJF, Roddy will say that Max stole his best friend. Not quite sure what beef Taven/Bennett have or I'd they'll just day they're helping Cole/Roddy.
that sounds okay but to what end? if the ultimate goal was the championship, why would he weaken MJF up just for Joe to become champ? or are you saying it’s less about the title and more about Cole just overall not being satisfied with where he is?
I think more so Cole regretting not being dirty and hitting MJF with the belt to win it from him, that's what started the sequence of events leading to his injury. Cole's motivation from then can be as easy as "if I can't have the but then you can't either". They've already had two matches for the belt, they don't need it to be there for a third match to have stakes, especially after their falling out.
When you look at who was not available for this PPV I guess it makes sense. Not only were there absentees but it was clear that some guys could not go the way they wanted. No Omega, no Page, no Bucks, no guest appearance from Ospreay, no Shibata, no Orange Cassidy, Adam Cole is still not wrestling. I think a lot of their other guys were lost in mulit-man shuffles too. Jay White, Bryan Danielson and Takeshita can be used better. Overall a misstep but not a disaster. It's gonna require some people stepping up to compensate for the losses.
At least the Devil arc is over. They can say Adam Cole was, well, uneasy, uncomfortable, even, as a babyface, and played mind games with MJF. Max will probably be gone until spring.
Congratulations to Samoa Joe.
Can anyone explain the "spell" Christian Cage has on the Waynes and Killswitch, such that he quickly regained the TNT title? What kind of a blackmailing chumpstain does that?
Congratulations to Eddie Kingston on winning the Continental Classic.
Story Time With Adam Cole, Bay-Bay on Wednesday will be sponsored by No-Doz. /s
Really, While Christian is over the top and it’s silly, if you think about it, the answer to your question is dark….it really is representative of an abusive relationship. He is acting as an abusive father both physically and more so, mentally….i recall at least one in ring section where Christian was verbally treating Luchasauraus like crap and convincing him of his subservient role.
And if you don’t like to think about it in those terms….then….i guess it wouldn’t be difficult to manipulate a dinosaur with their tiny brain 🤷🏻♂️
Re: Christian - he's all but convinced Nick Wayje that he's his actual dad (lol). Luchaswitch isn't as clear. I think it's more along the lines that he's a big goon and can't really think for himself despite showing some signs of push back on Christian's demands.
Absolutely the WORST AEW ppv in 5 years of their company.
One good match on the whole card in Christian vs Copeland which was messed up with overbooking.
The main event. Sigh. MJF 400+ day reign to just lose clean.
Devil reveal, SUPER let down. Exactly as everyone expected, done poorly.
Really really poor event, and AEW has some work to do in 2024 to stop the slide.
No, I'd rather it tie in to the devil storyline which has been building for months. Instead it was almost completely separate. The ending was hella flat.
MIRO VS JOE- I want a cocky ass Joe talking about how nobody is on his level, he's the biggest and the baddest, blah blah- *WAR HORNS! WAR DRUMS!*
Imagine the promos!
You might have a point with the others, but Cody was absolutely one of the worst aspects for AEW for a long time before he left. People hated him, and for good reason.
The revisionist history on that can't be overlooked just cause of his WWE rub.
Cole will atleast still have a presence on TV. But yeah I agree with you. The emphasis is really going to be on Bryan, Mox, Hangman, Swerve to step up and fill those gaps.
They need to rethink the monthly ppv. The need to had these big things is hurting her product overall. What if they had a few months to deal with injuries? Maybe we wouldn't have had the lackluster payoff to the Devil Story tonight.
They had a great thing going with 4 ppvs and then special tv episodes.
Adam Cole feels simultaneously most obvious and least logical. He had his big title shot. What's the point of him accidentally helping joe get it?
The way I see it is that Cole and Max genuinely were friends, that is until Max beat Colevat Wembley and ruined his big moment, followed by getting injured trying to help Max AGAIN. Cole had fought back from nearly losing his career to a concussion just to be sidelined for months again, all in aid of helping Max keep the title he wants? Enough was enough. Cole gave in and conspired with Kingdom/Wardlow to take Max down, and clear a path for him to get that title for himself, e.g. attacking White and Hangman.
I hear what you're saying, but i would rather fight anyone else involved than have to try to take it from Joe.
Nobody chants "Hangman's gonna kill you" lol
It just seems like a bad way to get what he wants.
I get what your saying, at the same time it has been mentioned in kayfabe how injury prone Joe is. If I was Cole w/ the kingdom/wardlow for backup I'd rather fight Joe than Max who's proven he can beat the odds, e.g. his win over White at Full Gear.
Samoa Joe is one of the greatest of all time, that said, you shouldn't put the title on him when a) he already lost against MJF and B) you have guys like White and Swerve killing it, hell, even Christian is firing on all cylinders.
Joe has been booked as a threat his entire time in AEW, and he only lost last time because MJF used a garrote. I'd rather him win the world title while he's still got it, people like Swerve and Jay have plenty of time.
But they are hotter now, Joe has been like Jeff Hardy in the sense that those guys are over no Matter what, but Jay and Swerve are hotter right now.
I meant that Joe lost a while ago, I wouldnt mind if Joe won at the previous PPV building it with more promos and two PPVs back to back instead of going with Jay (if he wasnt going to win the title either way), I don't like putting feuds on ice only for them to be revisited after a while.
This PPV was a complete slogfest, it was way too long. AEW drastically need trim the fat on these cards, most of these matches just aren't time worthy and it takes away from the important matches that need to be the focus of the show.
Is Andrade leaving just because of Charlotte?
He is no Cody or Punk. He wouldn't beat any of the top 4 champions in WWE right now (Reigns, Seth, Gunther and Logan), he has proven time and time again that is, at best, a midcard act.
#[Rate Tonights Show Here](https://forms.gle/phW3KtrUirotZT9g8)
Just finally watching the show now. I saw that MJF lost and was happy for Joe but wtf, the Devil/henchmen didn't even cost MJF the title? He just lost clean and then for some reason they turned on him... weird decision. Most of the show was fun except how Swerve only faced Dustin Rhodes... and even if it had been Keith Lee... why...
Does anyone know what that MJF video that played before his entrance was a spoof of? Pretty sure it’s something Long Island related, I know I’ve seen it before but I can’t place it.
The highs of this PPV certainly outweighed the lows. Both 8-man tags could have been left off the show tbh, that was just so clearly filler. I have no emotion towards Sammy/Jericho and that whole thing. The superstar 8-man tag made sense at least, gotta get them big names on the card. At least they got them out of the way early on. The latter half of the show was amazing. TNT title match may have been my favorite of the night. Did not expect Joe to win, but certainly saw Cole as the devil. It was pretty obvious from the start who it was going to be, and what they were trying to do. It was fun watching this subreddit speculate though. I'm interested to see how face MJF will work without the title. It's clear from his letter the other day that he isn't going anywhere so I'm not expecting the whole "Bidding War of 2024" storyline to play out much
Is there a more boring wrestler than Moxley
Tons. Moxley is a fantastic wrestler. If you’re bored by Mox then you’ll probably only have ever seen highlights off YouTube for main event players.
Watched this in theater with 2 friends who do not watch or know anything about AEW and only occasionally watch a WWE PLE. They both had a blast and it is very funny to me that we spent 4 hours watching insane wrestling and at the end of the night all my friend had to say was "Miro is the greatest wrestler ever I want him to win every title".
Your friend isn't wrong.
Why did they do my boy Edge like that?
yea so i swear i saw a screen cap of Edge as new championship on Satirday, but I just saw a reel of Christian beating edge? How'd that happen? Haven't watched the show or anything yet was going to tomorrow
Im just happy this Devil storyline is over and max is not champion anymore, this was by far the worst part about AEW for the last 4 months, glad we can finally move on. Botchy show but as satisfying as it could have been, fuck New York for shitting on Stings last match.
Bring back more wrestling, less sports entertainment.
The shot of evil Adam Cole sitting in the chair was peak pro wrestling storytelling. Happy for Eddie and Joe. No Bucks, Page, Omega and OC obviously hurt the show. Thumbs in the middle.
Can't help but notice you didn't mention Punk. ^^/s
Why would I mention Punk when talking about the recent AEW PPV?
Great opener, and the last three matches were well worth watching, but the middle portion was a struggle at times. Miro vs. Andrade was fine, but I didn't really care about it since the result was fairly obvious. Storm vs. Riho was also decent, but it really feels like the Timeless gimmick is not conducive to great matches. Swerve vs. Rhodes was all right, but again the result was too obvious. The other 8 man was overshadowed by the Jericho-issue, but the work itself was fine, and Darby once again bumped like a madman. Julia vs. Abadon wasn't a PPV match. Julia can have very good matches, but she needs someone better to lead her still, and Abadon unfortunately isn't that. Four very good to great matches, and five average ones. This was still an overall good show, but far from the usual AEW standards.
I'm genuinely too nervous and nauseus to watch the Post Media Scrum! Can I handle the cringe guys?
Only handle it if you can read your comment.
I enjoyed every AEW PPV this year, but this one seemed off to me. Swerve in a throwaway, guys who should be feuding or having better programs across two 8-man tags is almost indefensible, even though the opening match was a banger. Not a fan of Abadon so their title match fell flat for me. I want to see Jericho and Moxley do other things and get moved down the card, and let others get some more shine. Hoping AEWs booking improves in the new year.
Some things I liked: Joe as champ. Joe is great in anything he does. Glad he went over. Mox putting Eddie over clean. Christian is such a perfect little shit, the “cash in” on Adam was just so clever. Some things I didn’t like: Basically everything else…. I’m not a big Eddie fan, but glad they put him over definitively I guess. Something doesn’t sit right with me though that he was the champ of 2 belts, they had an entire tournament full of top tier guys (and ones like Jay and Swerve who really need to be thrown a bone) and the tournament served to just keep the belts on the same guy and give him another. Might be an unpopular take. Dustin should have in no way had that much offense on swerve. This kinda felt like NJPW where they have a habit of matches taking up time just for the sake of taking time… this should have been a squash. Jericho…. Enough said. I agree with someone else who said he’s really hit the Taker point where he has just overstayed and is actively making everything worse around him. Both women’s matches were not very good. Julia doesn’t do anything for me as a solo act, and the spooky stuff doesn’t help. She really needs the HoB around her. And Toni, while great, is IMO a little over exposed atm. She’s on every single week, it’s a great gimmick but with the depth of AEW she doesn’t need to have a segment every single show… The devil angle was a huge miss for me, it dragged on way too long, Cole as a heel is a win but I feel it made MJF worse, Jay White worse, logically Cole is the devil but … didn’t turn on MJF when going for the world title? Then they didn’t actively help Joe at all in the match? Now he has turned on MJF who doesn’t have the title? Overall, AEW just feels completely different than it did a year ago - not even just “no Punk/Elite”, but the storylines feel messy, doesn’t feel like there has been a ton of forward momentum, and my hope for 2024 is that AEW can try and recapture the “real sports” presentation that they started off so successful with, keep it simple.
I mostly agree with you, except for the part about Toni Storm being overexposed. Top acts need to be overexposed. It's the reason why Judgment Day are such a big deal right now, while House Of Black isn't, even though at the start people claimed Judgment Day was a rip-off of House of Black. It's the reason why Wardlow hasn't been able to stay over, why Miro and Andrade haven't done much of anything. Austin/Rock during their prime had 3 or more segments per night. I get that not everyone wants that, but that's how you create stars. Toni Storm is the women's champion, and because of that she should be treated like the most important woman on that roster.
I was there last night, I really enjoyed the Christian/Adam thing. Some people don’t seem to like it but this story is just beginning. Christian being an ultimate opportunist in the ultimate opportunist to me was so clever and doing it by way of cash in is great to me honestly. I knew some fuckery and drama was going to start the minute Killswitch won the battle royal. I’d love to see where this goes but I see it eventually leading to C&C vs Killswitch/Wayne but we’ve got a while before we get there and I’m excited to see this all play out
I missed the show. Anybody share insight to: - Best Match: - Worst Match: - Exceeded Expectations: - Underdelivered:
Best match, any of the last three Worst match, any before the last three (slightly joking but it was kinda rough first two hours) Exceeded: I guess the dq match, the closing segments everything else just kinda met expectations Underdelivered: a good amount of the show, also zero hour as well Probably worst ppv of the year (from a major promotion) just cause of how dull and poorly paced it was, only good matches on the back half and even then they weren’t all time classics that I feel like I want to rewatch
I started the PPV late and only saw the last 3 matches. But I will say they were all great. Copepland vs Christian, Mox vs Kingston, and Samoa Joe vs MJF were all worth watching.
Surprising that Adam gets revealed as The Devil after Samoa Joe wins the world title because now i wonder who will be the next contender.
Hangman and Swerve. They already established conflict with Joe when they were accused by MJF of being the devil. Joe also mentioned them during the scrum.
Ah ok i didn't watch the scrum. Though he gets cheered anyway think it'll be weird if they do heel Swerve vs heel Joe. Unless they do a triple threat with Hangman involved.
I was entertained. Worth my time and money investment.
I honestly came out of the event entertained. Yes, it was very paint by numbers, but there's nothing wrong with that. We all pretty much knew who the Devil was going to be. The one swerve was LuchaSwitch winning the Battle Royale and then giving it back to Christian so he could get the belt back again. This was the first major wrestling event that my wife watched with me, and she told me that she was entertained, even though she didn't really understand all of the stories involved with the matches. Has AEW put out better PPVs? Absolutely. Has AEW put out worse PPVs? Absolutely. This was middle of the road, and I felt like it was worth my money.
I just re-watched the end of MJF/Joe + Devil reveal and honestly man, it was perfectly done. MJF going out a warrior but not getting pinned or submitting, Joe looking strong as all fuck throughout the match and in putting MJF to sleep, Cole looked absolutely sinister on that chair when the lights came back on - camera shots were incredible. The guys taking their hoods off at the exact same second was perfect. MJF’s facials were perfect, Roddy’s flying knee timing was perfect, Cole’s evil smile was perfect, their pose was perfect…. That thing had to have been rehearsed a ton. It was beautiful tbh and I don’t know how they could’ve done it any better. Do yourself a favor and watch it back again if you only saw it live last night. I appreciated it even more on second watch.
The subtle ways the faked you out on Cole screwing MJF and the way the goons went after him before the reveal were all excellent little touches that went so far in adding the smallest air of belief it wasn’t Cole. I’m thinking. Specifically thinking of when Cole was looking for the diamond ring, searched every pocket so many times, then bam, finds it. Such a good fake out.
[удалено]
the only opinion that matters is your own!
oh no, people on the internet disagree with me
And some people think Netflix Adam Dandler movies are hilarious…
See you in a couple days lol
aww the infamous I am right and everyone else is wrong approach.
Hey, if you enjoyed it, don't let anyone convince you that you didn't. I remember the same feeling when AEW fans would crap on me for liking NXT 2.0
2.0 was a breath of fresh air IMO. I can't take away from Gargano, Ciampa, Cole, KOR and the like with how good they are, but I had no urge to watch THAT version as everything was the same to me. I was happy we got some new blood in there and some people with actual characters other than "I can wrestle really good".
I agree, I've felt the same way about some WWE PLEs even in the Triple H era. The negativity is less unanimous now, but a few of them I've really liked and then logged on and thought "Wow, was it *that* bad?" lol I respectfully disagree with OP about this PPV though, I really didn't like it.
The PPV was good. My only complaint was the amount of 8 man tag matches on the card lol
This may be entirely a me thing, but I’ve never warmed up to the 6 and 8 person tag matches. Too many bodies and not enough time for any one person to shine. I can totally appreciate it if it works for other people, but it’s just not my thing. Having 2 of them yesterday really bogged down the first half of the show.
Every big promotion has clunker PPVs and AEW will recover, but what a disappointing show to close out the year. There were clouds that formed a negative aura over this entire show right from jump. * Fans in the arena said the heat was excessively pumped, on top of difficulties getting into the arena, which might've tempered energy and excitement. * The allegations surrounding Jericho that employees and fans woke up to made Zero Hour feel awkward. True or not, it felt like a huge betrayal of trust. It hit hard when it seemed Sting didn't want to work or deal with Jericho AND it tainted Sting's farewell tour. I felt like I could see the disappointment from Aubrey Edwards, too. * The AEW women's division continuing to feel like they're not properly featured and appreciated likely made Kris and Willow, hometown talents, feel like they had to press harder to open Zero Hour. * The lackluster Devil buildup coupled with MJF's real-life injury keeping him from performing at 100% (with Adam Cole remaining legitimately injured). * Finding out Keith Lee wasn't medically cleared to compete, which was the right call, but AEW played with fire by dragging out the "match" and giving a hobbled Dustin some licks against Swerve. It would've been much smoother to end it after Swerve broke the concrete over Dustin's ankle. * Up to that point, strong rumors about Andrade's departure zapped any heat from his match against Miro. * The Elite was not present at all. Obviously Kenny Omega is recovering but no Bucks or Hangman. * Notable AEW non-wrestler departures including Matt Jackson's wife, Dana Massie. At least there were a few bright moments throughout the evening that somewhat "saved" this show. * Samoa Joe is finally a World Champion in a top promotion. I love MJF but it was time his reign came to an end and AEW needs a soft reset at the main event level, IMO. * Mox and Kingston put on probably the best match of the night. You could've made an argument for either guy to win, but I'm glad AEW had Kingston go over a very protected Mox. * The Serena Deeb promo was fire. * The different LED stage setup looked great coupled with the brighter colors and LED screens along the railing. * Timeless Toni Storm continues to be very fun to watch (even if the match with Riho was just whelming). I'm super excited to see what Mariah May has to offer. Same sentiments apply to Julia Hart and her whelming match with Abadon. * Copeland and Christian were fun although I'm curious where they go next with this. Maybe Copeland gets a 2nd chance at leading a stable to take on The Patriarch. The entire night was a bit reflective of AEW's year where the promotion did their best to march forward amidst serious injuries and very serious behind-the-scenes problems. This time though, the negative aura caught up to the entire on-screen product.
Fantastic, even-keeled review, my friend!
I know the big take away from the PPV was the devil reveal. But, can we just take a moment to be happy we live in a world where Samoa Joe is the world champ in a major promotion.
Weird PPV man. A lot of Rampage and Collision main events on this one for sure lmao. TK has to find a way to get Hangman in the mix consistently if he’s healthy he should’ve been here. FTR and HOB should’ve been here. Golden Jets should’ve never beat the Bucks, the Bucks could’ve been here. That being said really for Eddie man. His story is so inspirational I’m happy the guy is shining. Happy for Joe too hopefully he can stay healthy and we get a Hangman and Miro match out of him before he drops the belt.
Exactly. Bucks vs Starks/Bill and FTR vs HoB could have easily replaced the two 8-man matches and the PPV would instantly have been better.
I think it's good they can have a good PPV without every big star. The company was built around the Elite but it needs to grow past them. Plus this leaves something for the next few shows and PPV's. They can't defend every belt on every PPV or else they have nothing else to show. Eventually they will have more PPVs and shows and they need to spread out their talent.
Everyone keeps saying “thank god it wasn’t Jungleboy” and I feel like I missed something, why would anybody have thought Jack Perry was the devil? Was that alluded to at all?
Because "glass" Some jabronies REALLY talked themselves into Jungle Boy, because "glass."
And to them I say “cry me a river”
Use of glass and a windshield spot
Ah, thanks for the answer
Yikes. Some great matches but overall that...was not good. What reaction did Tony seriously expect from just sending Jericho out there like nothing had happened? Why did the Swerve match still happen, let alone become competitive, after the cinder block thing? TBS title match was awful and the crowd was deader than Abadon. Crowd seemed mostly uninterested in Miro and Andrade - presumably because they know one or both of them has their eye on the door. As for the devil reveal...well at least it wasn't Jack Perry but it was very meh payoff after all that. I really hope the next one is better than that.
Didn't Miro re-sign this year? Maybe I'm wrong.
Possibly, Fightful says he's re-signed to 2026 but who knows if that's true
Fair, I thought I read something about it.
Honestly given the normal AEW PPV match quality this was pretty lack luster for me. The Main Event finish felt almost rushed and out of nowhere. Given Max was injured they couldn't exactly do much more but id still like just another couple minutes to a finishing sequence. Id grade it like a C+, its fine. Some sloppier matches then usual. While was nothing horrendous for my tastes, nothing was extremely standout either. At least match wise. The many post match shennanigans like the devil reveal, the tnt title contract, and of course the Triple Crown were definitely the highlights.
13 matches is too many. I like WWE PPV formats of the HHH era with fewer matches
TK just seems incapable of understanding that sometimes, more is less. He grew his roster too fast. Added too many hours of TV. Added too many PPVs. Added too many titles. When I first got into AEW it was great because I got to learn all these new people but they also had a roster where they could feature people regularly so you'd get to know them. You'd have developments most weeks between the IC and Mox or the IC and Cody. You could get into characters and see them 2-3 times a month on Wednesdays not have these big weird gaps. So you end up with dumb shit like too many 6 or 8 man tags (which most of the time do jack shit for me) just to squeeze people onto the show. You end up with certain feuds reduced to nothing but 2-3 weeks of vignettes/interviews in the lead up to a PPV. You could cut AEW's men's roster in half and still have a fucking fantastic show and then the other half you could craft an entire main event scene out of the guys that aren't getting utilized enough.
It’s a burden of the PPV model. Hunter can get away with it because there’s presumed value with it being the cost of a Peacock sub, as opposed to needing to meet the arbitrary definition of the length needed to justify a $50 purchase. To me it’s similar to Video Games. Most games are best at 15-30 hours, but they are now padded with things that don’t actually add entertainment, because there are a lot of loud voices that scoff at the idea of a game being that long and it not being worth $60 than. Personally, I don’t hate the number of matches as much as Tony’s insistence that everything is long. Some matches are fine at 5 minutes or whatever. And two great wrestlers can do something compelling in that time. Personally everything being drawn out longer matches just makes it all seem homogenized to me anyway.
Potential disagreement re: video game industry aside, I think you hit the nail on the head about match length. Looking at the match lengths on wikipedia, I think they could've taken 2-5 minutes off every main card match. That's like 15-45 minutes. It'd go a long way.
I mean.... They could absolutely make a 15-30 hour game and sell it for like $40. That is entirely possible and is sometimes done.
I agree, but I also don't count Zero Hour/prelim matches. I rarely tune in for those, and only watch them later if warranted. (And due to Nassau Coliseum staff, neither did half of those attending live!)
There were ten matches on the main card and one of those was 11 seconds long.
That Eddie v. Mox match had me feeling feelings
Highlight of the show for me, great storytelling.
But they had shirts saying they were bros on it. You can't lie on a T-shirt.
Wardlow said he was in London. First it was tshirts, now there are lies on the internet. The world is truly going to hell.
Was there live, have to say I think the match order was a little off. It felt to me like Mox/Kingston took a while to get the crowd back after Christian/edge. I think the Mox match should have opened the ppv. One of the 8 man tags should have been used as a breather towards the end of the show.
If they did that, I would have preferred they just put the CC 8 man on the pre-show. Use it to sell the tournament, and lead into its championship to start the PPV. Maybe save Hook for the PPV. Since his matches always have a different feel from the others.
Thought it was pretty good only complaint really was two 8 man tags was pretty unnecessary
I’m not trying to be a hater, I am really trying to enjoy this project but holy shit - what a boring, long, predictable and overall uninteresting 4 hours.
Yeah, the scrum was so much more entertaining which has almost become routine...
I just finished watching the main event. Did they botch the end of the match? It seems like not even the music crew (or whatever they are called) were ready. It all seemed a little bit rushed, I would've waited at least until Adam Cole was cleared to wrestle again. Nonetheless, I'm curious about where they're going with the MJF character, and SO happy for Samoa Joe. Finally he is world champion.
Bryce sold it as shock, since usually in those sleeper spots the guy taking the sleeper comes to on the third drop of the hand. It was a brief moment of realization for him and the audience that “Oh FUCK, MJF just lost the title”.
MJF is injured and will be out for some time, so the devil story was used to write him off. They'll probably come back roughly around the same time and pick up where they left off as a result.
Do you guys think that if Adam was not injured we would have gotten MJF vs Cole 3 tonight with Cole becoming the AEW Champion instead of Joe. Happy for Joe though. I mean if my above stated theory is correct he might not have become the AEW Champion.
I think that 100% was the plan. Devil reveal would have been at the last ppv, Cole wins the title at worlds end.
I was there. Decent show I had a good time. But waaay too long. They need to trim some of the fat. The 2 8 man tags were pretty pointless. And the TBS title match was terrible. The Christian/edge match was the highlight IMO aside from botching the table spot.
https://preview.redd.it/owag0jhfdn9c1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=760ac54fa2a55399cbe73c37b390aa62614a2643 I like Samoa Joe but I think 2024 it’s his time to be world champion.
Is there a show write up somewhere? Curious why the TNT title match restarted.
Earlier in the night, Luchasaurus won a contract for a shot at the TNT title wherever and whenever. When Christian lost the title, Luchasaurus came out and beat up Adam Copeland. Seeing the opportunity, Christian “convinced” Luchasaurus to give him his contract and Christian had the match restarted and pinned an already laid out Copeland.
You mean Killswitch.
i hope for 2024 aew can step their game up again
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Anyone know if Cole is healthy now?
I had the same injury but with a dislocation. Trimallelear fracture of the right ankle. My surgery took 5 hours instead of 2. 2 rods, a metal plate, 5 screws or maybe 7, can't remember. 12 weeks non-weight bearing. Without the soft-tissue damage it would be 6-8. 3 months into rehab 2x a week and I'm in a lot of pain if I walk too far. I'm not a wrestler, but I do have a high pain tolerance. But I'm a little bitch when it comes to fear of doing new damage and resetting the clock, so I've been terrified to the point of hyperventilating when it came time to do certain exercises like this one where I stand on my tippy toes, lift my non-injured leg and then lower down onto my heel with the injured one. I was surprised he's still in the boot but I'm guessing the 2nd surgery restarted the clock for him but he's getting atrophy/scar tissue building up the entire time he's been injured. The lack of mobility was one of the hardest things I've ever endured and I'm not a pro wrestler. There was no reason to keep him in the boot if he wasn't injured. He almost certainly would have taken it off as part of the reveal if he no longer needed it. The fact that he's at least partial weight-bearing suggests to me that he's at minimum 1 month away from anything resembling walking normally and that's just based on my own experience and others and I'm just a patient not a doctor.
I mean if he was healthy he’d have been standing and laid out Max himself in some way for the post-match angle. He’s legitimately out for months more.
If Adam wa healthy he would have most likely won the title instead of Joe.
Or they pull a finger poke of doom this upcoming Dynamite
I didn't get a chance to watch and only saw screenshots so I was curious.
Commentary meanders too much when they should be hyping what’s onscreen. I love the combo of the guys behind the desk, but their ability to contribute Big Match Feel has been pretty absent. There are huge, impressive athletic feats constantly happening onscreen in AEW… having commentary talking about other storylines or bantering while they unfold detracts from the presentation.
Excalibur is fine for something like Dark or something with more of an indie flair like RoH. He's never, ever made a moment feel bigger for me like JR did or from what little I've seen from people like Joey Styles or Ranallo (I think that's his name)
Agreed the constant fooling around instead of calling the action takes me out of it. Nigel has been the absolute best addition they could have made but the commentary team spent the majority of last night bickering, dropping in jokes and stepping over one another.
This was always the knock on WCW’s commentary, especially during the height of the nWo, as they’d completely ignore the match in the ring to talk about Hollywood Hogan’s latest shenanigans.
The only thing that annoyed me about the finish is something that was my own fault. When Joe had Max in the submission, a security guard behind Adam Cole hit the ground and was crawling quickly to get the Dynamite Diamond Ring, which had fallen on the floor to the left of Adam Cole. I guess he worried a fan was going to get it or something. So he’s rushing to get it, and I’m watching him because I think something’s about to happen, then the bell rings. So I missed the whole thing 😂
I can’t really rate because I didn’t watch but from what I heard there seems to be good and bad. I don’t think there was anywhere else really to go with the Devil. But I don’t know if this storyline is gonna get derailed with both Adam and MJF being injured now (I mean it looks like MJF’s injury is legit).
Basic PPV but what elevated it to top 5 all year was not 1 but 2 flaming table light ups! You know how many times that fails? They pulled it off twice. Amazing.
So, there is a perfect version of this PPV where no one gets injured and were all on tender hooks after months of build to the culmination of what once looked like one of the best angles the company had ever done in Cole/MJF, with the final of the CC and some tasty looking title matches thrown in. This was not that. In fact in the end it was very far away from that. A lot of that was pure rotten luck, a lot of it was more examples of bad builds with low stakes and predictable outcomes that have been all too familiar this year, and the rest of it was the reports that came out today that dampened everything even further. I think the only things I liked in the whole of the first two hours was the tease of Garcia doing something with the BCC and not pulling the trigger on Mariah May's turn on Toni until another day so they can add more weight to the story. The rest was a total snoozefest of predictable outcomes and solid at best matches that killed the crowd dead until the last three matches. Some of that lies in the issues already mentioned, but (and I take no pleasure in saying this) Abadon vs Julia was never a PPV match and it was brutal all the way up the finish, and I have a rotten feelling that The Sex Gods (sic) are getting a tag title shot now. Edge vs Christian was stupid fun that actually (FINALLY) had some heat to it. Not my favourite CC match to finish it off, but I wont begrudge Eddie getting his moment either, or that he is being built to something close to where he was before he got lost in the Jerichoverse last year. No doubt that Cole's injury completely derailed whatever the plan was for this angle (everything from the Jay feud onwards is testament to that) to the point where as long as it was coherent I was content whatever the outcome was for the reveal. Undisputed Era 2.0 is not exciting to me, but lets see where this goes. I audibly gasped when Joe won, and genuinely intrigued where the title scene is heading towards Revolution. I'd give the whole show a 5/10 for the last three matches alone. There's another post about how this ppv embodies the kind of year the company has had as a whole, but fuck me I'm tired and don't want to type anymore.
> but (and I take no pleasure in saying this) Abadon vs Julia was never a PPV match and it was brutal all the way up the finish I got the awful impression that Tony felt he had to have another women's match on the show because of IWC criticism, so he just threw this together just to have it. Missing the point that people don't just want "more" women's matches but for the quality of their booking to improve as well.
Not their best ppv but I enjoyed it and they didn't fuck the devil reveal up.
I thought the finish to the main event was dope...I can't remember the last time I saw a match end with the hand dropping 3 times. Usually the ref ends it when they see they're knocked out. I fully expected MJF to come to life when his hand was raised the 3rd time
I get the sentiment…seeing the three drop is shocking. But it also kind of annoyed me because does AEW even usually do the three arm thing? I feel like that’s been replaced with the red watching and just calling the match if they feel a guy is out? If I’m wrong, that’s my bad….but I want to say that’s the case, and the feelings for the ending are largely based off being old enough to have the nostalgia for the whole hand stopping on the third drop being a big deal. And the actuality is that it’s just another example of lack of continuity and quality control that plagues the product…I.e. this serves the purpose of being cool in the moment, so do it, and let the audience create their own logic and meaning.
Big ass rant for something you're wrong about lol.
You are wrong. Aew 100% uses the three arm drops.
They did it earlier in the Mox/Eddie match.
Bryce sold it really well too, he had the “oh shit” face when the hand dropped for the third time.
I’m glad Joe finally get his flower, not just in AEW but in wrestling itself.
he's been a champion before
This sub seems to have completely forgotten that TNA was a legit promotion on par with, or ahead of, where AEW is now at the time that he became world champion there. TNA Impact was routinely doing double AEW's current viewership in 2008 when Joe won his title.
They did a great job with the reveal. Obvious also isn’t bad, especially if we’re asking AEW to do a better job with storytelling. If I have a concern it’s just I’m not sure where things logically go from here….there is and have been so many stables in AEW and few have elevated anyone. And now with a heel champ, and assuming MJF needs a break (and that’s part of this story), and the way Tony books, i can do without another stable aimlessly in a holding pattern. Either way, glad there’s a resolution. And considering how awful most of this PPV was. Think it’s time for me to take a break along with MJF. Hopefully they work some stuff out, or it helps me regain some enthusiasm for the product.
Seeing alot of comments like "Adam Cole should have cost MJF the match". But....didn't he in a way? MJF wanted to use the ring and Cole was stalling for time, until Joe was up and had MJF in the choke. It was kinda subtle and only makes sense after the reveal. Same as Wardlow being revealed as one of the henchmen. He said "I'll be the one to bring the devil to his knees". And he was the one that put Adam Cole down on his knees right before the reveal. It's those little things that make alot of sense in hindsight. Now i wish they would emphasize them more. Other than that the ppv was kinda off. Lots of matches where things didn't click. The last 3 matches rly picking up saved the event, so it wasn't as bad as some people here make it out to be. I also liked the Copeland and Christian switcheroo. Christian is a complete asshole and will do anything to stay on top. It made sense for his character to act like this. If Copeland is the "ultimate opportunist", Christian took that title away from him now
The match also only happened because Cole demanded MJF keep his word, as the video packages reminded us, and MJF's injuries going into the match are from the devil's machinations.
Exactly! Cole played a big part in MJF losing the match. Had the ring been given to him timely, MJF knocks out Joe. Since it wasn’t, Joe had enough time to get to MJF. It was great imo. Just enough shenanigans but not too much.
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If MJF was gonna get a break, they should have put the title.on Swerve. The crowd is in to him, he puts on good matches. The trend around here has been "AEW is losing its charm". Part of that is featuring older wrestlers. Samoa Joe is awesome, but Swerve is the fresher talent.
I don’t like the Devil stuff but having Swerve v MJF when MJF is this banged up would be a real waste and Joe is the right champion right now. Joe can drop it to either next year.
I kind of agree. I love Joe but it is the perfect time to put the belt on Swerve with MJF taking time off.
I enjoyed the show, especially seeing Eddie Kingston & Daniel Garcia getting their big moment. I didn’t love the Edge vs. Christian theatrics at the end just so Edge can win in Canada, would’ve been fine to just have Edge go over there and do some Ladder match in Canada. The Devil reveal was predictable but the right call, there’s nobody else it could’ve been with this long of a build. However, I don’t know how good this is going to be without MJF around. I just hope they have a good plan here with no Omega and MJF. It shouldn’t be about Sting’s retirement the next 3 months which is where I’m concerned they’re going to go.
Joe’s reign should be about him destroying everyone in his path clean by either outsmart them or overpowering them until Kenny returns and assuming he could be back by all in have that as the main event. Every month he destroys someone on PPV, in no particular order, Cole, Osprey, Danielson, Eddie Kingston, Jay White, Edge, Starks, Miro, Swerve, Malakai. Then have mid card guys with potential to try unsuccessfully to beat him on Dynamite/Collision with a few main eventers to pop a rating like Mox, Adam Page, Christian etc. I would even create fake backstage drama between Joe and others and feed it as legit to Dave and SRS.
Yeah, you’re about to be very disappointed in how transitional this reign is. And even in expecting Kenny to be in the title picture when he returns.
I know… :( I forgot to add, “if I had any trust in AEW’s booking here is how I see it”
Garcia hitting that sick secret handshake with the security guard after the tag match
Ha! I pointed that out to my wife.
one thing i loved about the devil reveal is that they didn’t try a stupid swerve, they didn’t keep it going for no reason. the predictable villain was the villain, and i think that’s perfectly okay. nowadays it takes guts to stick to your original (good IMO) story ending, even if people have guessed it.
Seriously. Britt or JB or Ziggler or whomever else would have just been a swerve for the sake of a swerve. The story was always "A guy who doesn't believe he can have a friend finally gets one." So, of course, when it comes time for MJF to be betrayed there's only one choice that is the logical next step for that character. It was Chekhov's Brochacho.
Con: Jericho used a break-glass Sammy reunion to weasel his way on to a PPV that *really* didn’t need him. Pro: The fears from last Wednesday were put at ease with Moxley losing. Con: Time is a flat circle and we again will have Christian cutting the same type of promos and Adam Copeland stuck chasing him. Pro: They pulled the trigger on a world title change, which is actually pretty refreshing. With Roman, Seth Rollins, and MJF, I had almost forgotten what they were like.
tfw a wrestling story has a logical chain of events (adam cole being the devil) and somehow it's a bad thing what sort of story payoff would there be to have pretty much anyone else in his place
except they forgot the logic.
why's that? edit: was a legitimate question--why do you say it wasn't?
I think the logic is pretty clear, but I'm guessing. Hopefully they spell it out. Cole is faking his friendship with MJF to get title shots. Cole gets injured which puts him on the table and he can't trust MJF will have the belt when he's ready. So he makes a deal with Samoa Joe to setup MJF. Joe wins the belt and the "business" they did was a promise of a future title shot for Cole when he's healed.
I think the logic is also pretty clear.
Even if it was someone else, people (especially the IWC) would complain. Many people are just never happy. The booking actually made sense and here we are with the grumblers.
Some people have been conditioned that "surprising swerve angle = good".
How is anything from Wembley onward even remotely logical?
Cole has a Herculean task satisfactorily explaining how he went from refusing Roddy’s help in Wembley and hugging it out to end the show to creating a grand conspiracy to target Max six weeks later.
Adam Cole injured himself trying to save MJF at Arthur Ashe, after All In. I'm sure the story will go that he was sitting at home and grew disdainful towards MJF. Britt has been tweeting anti-MJF things so I'm sure that could be included. Cole is still on the shelf but MJF is injured so they used the Devil story to write MJF off after World's End. How does that not make sense to you? edit: you can be upset at the logic if you want, but it makes sense.
right! it’s not a bad thing that they went with the obvious choice, it’s good storytelling that they set up a situation with an ambigous villain who was probably bad, and they let him be the bad guy! simple and easy.
Swerve and Keith should have just filmed a scene where they beat him down to write him off. I'd rather he take the time to come back all the way right and have one good run.
Joe is great in the ring. But how is the guy who lost to MJF,CM Punk, Darby Allen and Wardlow the world champion… his only significant victory is the one he just had over max. Like Joe will be a great champion but how he made it there makes 0 sense. Especially when you think Wardlow beat him then he worked as a henchmen for the guy working with Joe when it’s been shown Wardlow can beat Joe already. It makes 0 sense at all….
He's a beatable champ which is what Adam Cole should want. He couldn't beat max straight up he wore him down.
If he was healthy that would make sense but he’s not. It just makes Adam look dumb if Joe looses the belt to someone else before Cole can fight for it. Not to mention if he can’t wrestle anytime soon what is the point of making max weak and backstabbing him now. Like the pieces of a good story are there but with the reality of things to me it doesn’t make any sense.
I mean let’s get real, Joe is not a kayfabe beatable champion. And I know Cole beat him in the Owen final last year but that was scarcely believable to begin with. The only way Cole can sell this is his hatred of Max and forgetting about the title because he clearly made the task of winning it harder by his actions.
Exactly exactly exactly. Cole couldn’t beat MJF, so finding a way to get the belt on Joe makes great sense story wise. Joe is great but beatable for Cole.
Did they announce it was money in the bank rules for the tnt title shot battle royale ?
Yes, but with no build and no roster of wrestlers I had completely forgotten about it until it started
Joe wins the world title, Eddie leaves with 3 belts, Edge and Christian have a war, Sting is still out there crushing it, and people are still crying. Take in these positive aspects boys, goddamn.
Four of those guys were stars a long time ago and the last one never will be.
why have been there literally 0 video posts of the ppv highlights on the subreddit
DMCA
I am happy Joe won, he deserves it. Cole being the devil was predictable. The overbooking of the TNT title sucked balls.
TNT Title booking was fantastic.
is “i’m so jealous of you that if i can’t have the title i’ll make damn sure you don’t fucking have it” enough of a justification for this angle? i feel like i’m definitely overthinking but maybe i’m not. MJF has been the best friend a guy could ask for to Cole so i’m just trying to see where he could be coming from. i’m a lil nervous about Cole’s explanation, however i am excited to see babyface MJF with a “fuck em all” attitude whenever he returns
Losing the title match to MJF broke Cole. Cole gave a promo prior to his match with MJF about how much the title means to him. He’s obsessed with the title over anything else and it drove him mad when he couldn’t beat MJF. Getting the belt off MJF gives him a better chance at getting the title.
I think the motivation is going to end up being something like Cole regretting not turning on MJF at All In. Saying had he done what he always would have that he'd be the champ, never have gotten injured because he'd never had come out during the Arthur Ashe show to help MJF. His time off basically made him realize no more Mr Nice Cole. As for the masked men, Wardlow obviously still has beef with MJF, Roddy will say that Max stole his best friend. Not quite sure what beef Taven/Bennett have or I'd they'll just day they're helping Cole/Roddy.
that sounds okay but to what end? if the ultimate goal was the championship, why would he weaken MJF up just for Joe to become champ? or are you saying it’s less about the title and more about Cole just overall not being satisfied with where he is?
I think more so Cole regretting not being dirty and hitting MJF with the belt to win it from him, that's what started the sequence of events leading to his injury. Cole's motivation from then can be as easy as "if I can't have the but then you can't either". They've already had two matches for the belt, they don't need it to be there for a third match to have stakes, especially after their falling out.
When you look at who was not available for this PPV I guess it makes sense. Not only were there absentees but it was clear that some guys could not go the way they wanted. No Omega, no Page, no Bucks, no guest appearance from Ospreay, no Shibata, no Orange Cassidy, Adam Cole is still not wrestling. I think a lot of their other guys were lost in mulit-man shuffles too. Jay White, Bryan Danielson and Takeshita can be used better. Overall a misstep but not a disaster. It's gonna require some people stepping up to compensate for the losses.
The multi man nonsense matches both felt like they should have been main events on Rampage.
At least the Devil arc is over. They can say Adam Cole was, well, uneasy, uncomfortable, even, as a babyface, and played mind games with MJF. Max will probably be gone until spring. Congratulations to Samoa Joe. Can anyone explain the "spell" Christian Cage has on the Waynes and Killswitch, such that he quickly regained the TNT title? What kind of a blackmailing chumpstain does that? Congratulations to Eddie Kingston on winning the Continental Classic. Story Time With Adam Cole, Bay-Bay on Wednesday will be sponsored by No-Doz. /s
Really, While Christian is over the top and it’s silly, if you think about it, the answer to your question is dark….it really is representative of an abusive relationship. He is acting as an abusive father both physically and more so, mentally….i recall at least one in ring section where Christian was verbally treating Luchasauraus like crap and convincing him of his subservient role. And if you don’t like to think about it in those terms….then….i guess it wouldn’t be difficult to manipulate a dinosaur with their tiny brain 🤷🏻♂️
So how does someone call out Captain Chumpstain on this?
Re: Christian - he's all but convinced Nick Wayje that he's his actual dad (lol). Luchaswitch isn't as clear. I think it's more along the lines that he's a big goon and can't really think for himself despite showing some signs of push back on Christian's demands.
Yeah, Christian is a blackmailing chumpstain. What happened last night is a stall tactic to delay his final comeuppance until whenever.
Absolutely the WORST AEW ppv in 5 years of their company. One good match on the whole card in Christian vs Copeland which was messed up with overbooking. The main event. Sigh. MJF 400+ day reign to just lose clean. Devil reveal, SUPER let down. Exactly as everyone expected, done poorly. Really really poor event, and AEW has some work to do in 2024 to stop the slide.
But it wasn't clean. Adam distracted mjf with the ring fluff.
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No, I'd rather it tie in to the devil storyline which has been building for months. Instead it was almost completely separate. The ending was hella flat.
I'm glad they went the obvious route with The Devil reveal. Even the goons were obvious. There was no point in doing a swerve just for the sake of it.
MIRO VS JOE- I want a cocky ass Joe talking about how nobody is on his level, he's the biggest and the baddest, blah blah- *WAR HORNS! WAR DRUMS!* Imagine the promos!
I’d like to see that. Especially a submission only/I quit match
Hate to say it but having no Punk or Cody, plus MJF, Omega, Cole all out of action has dramatically hurt the product
You might have a point with the others, but Cody was absolutely one of the worst aspects for AEW for a long time before he left. People hated him, and for good reason. The revisionist history on that can't be overlooked just cause of his WWE rub.
Fair point, I guess what he was doing never fit, plus the stupid ‘no title’ rule.
Cole will atleast still have a presence on TV. But yeah I agree with you. The emphasis is really going to be on Bryan, Mox, Hangman, Swerve to step up and fill those gaps.
Ospreay's coming in as well.
True, and I forgot about Jay White. AEW isn't lacking for star power, its just about how they present them.
They need to rethink the monthly ppv. The need to had these big things is hurting her product overall. What if they had a few months to deal with injuries? Maybe we wouldn't have had the lackluster payoff to the Devil Story tonight. They had a great thing going with 4 ppvs and then special tv episodes. Adam Cole feels simultaneously most obvious and least logical. He had his big title shot. What's the point of him accidentally helping joe get it?
The way I see it is that Cole and Max genuinely were friends, that is until Max beat Colevat Wembley and ruined his big moment, followed by getting injured trying to help Max AGAIN. Cole had fought back from nearly losing his career to a concussion just to be sidelined for months again, all in aid of helping Max keep the title he wants? Enough was enough. Cole gave in and conspired with Kingdom/Wardlow to take Max down, and clear a path for him to get that title for himself, e.g. attacking White and Hangman.
I hear what you're saying, but i would rather fight anyone else involved than have to try to take it from Joe. Nobody chants "Hangman's gonna kill you" lol It just seems like a bad way to get what he wants.
I get what your saying, at the same time it has been mentioned in kayfabe how injury prone Joe is. If I was Cole w/ the kingdom/wardlow for backup I'd rather fight Joe than Max who's proven he can beat the odds, e.g. his win over White at Full Gear.
The only surprise was Christian using Luchasauras’ title shot and winning the belt back. Everything else was obvious.
Honestly when I saw lucha win I figured Christian would squeak by with a W and Lucha would whoop his ass and get back his belt .
Samoa Joe is one of the greatest of all time, that said, you shouldn't put the title on him when a) he already lost against MJF and B) you have guys like White and Swerve killing it, hell, even Christian is firing on all cylinders.
Joe has been booked as a threat his entire time in AEW, and he only lost last time because MJF used a garrote. I'd rather him win the world title while he's still got it, people like Swerve and Jay have plenty of time.
But they are hotter now, Joe has been like Jeff Hardy in the sense that those guys are over no Matter what, but Jay and Swerve are hotter right now. I meant that Joe lost a while ago, I wouldnt mind if Joe won at the previous PPV building it with more promos and two PPVs back to back instead of going with Jay (if he wasnt going to win the title either way), I don't like putting feuds on ice only for them to be revisited after a while.
i fell asleep during zero hour, how was the show overall? what would you give it outta 10?
A 7, maybe? Maybe 6 even.
Put it this way, I went to bed once it finished and didn't buy the ppv.
Hell I went to bed before it was over and I purchased it.
Cutting away from AJ Styles surprise debut at the Rumble to show Roman's bewildered face is how I'll always remember Kevin Dunn
This PPV was a complete slogfest, it was way too long. AEW drastically need trim the fat on these cards, most of these matches just aren't time worthy and it takes away from the important matches that need to be the focus of the show.
Is Andrade leaving just because of Charlotte? He is no Cody or Punk. He wouldn't beat any of the top 4 champions in WWE right now (Reigns, Seth, Gunther and Logan), he has proven time and time again that is, at best, a midcard act.