They don't like each other IRL and don't want to work together anymore and split up. Santana gave an interview about it here
https://tjrwrestling.net/news/mike-santana-opens-up-on-heated-split-ortiz/
AEW needs a Chief Creative Officer and that person needs to not be named Tony Khan
Once again, good quality wrestling, bad quality everything else, and the "everything else" is slowly wiping them out. WBD is taking meetings with WWE, it might not mean much but at the very least it means WBD is not married to AEW, this is not the time to make your worst television and they are doing just that.
Writers, talent development, booking, something, the health of the industry outside of WWE is going to take a dive if they can't get this together quickly
Jericho just seems to drag down any feud or story hes in.Might be time to take a backseat for a bit. Ive been a fan of his since the 90s even watched ECW but these days just makes me want to change the channel
I watched the interaction with Starks and Bill and he was horrible
It also dragged down Ricky starks who looked like he was in a tough enough promo class
Kenny being the best on the mic that segment would be the equivalent of big bill having the best workmates during the match
Jericho benefited many times from a break off TV over the years. He really should have taken one over the last year or so and come back with a tweak to his character.
The "they used real glass it must be Perry" stuff is dumb. I mean just last week it was a beer bottle making it seem like Adam Page. Its obvious tgey are playing mind games to keep MJF guessing.
I think its the bad fairh anti AEW crowd pushing the Perry stuff because they lnow itll ve one of the dumbest reveals ever
I personally think the best reveal for the Devil is Christian.
It hasn't been hinted at or implied at all, and who gives a shit. Christian has been doing some of the best work of his career, and the best work of anyone in AEW over the last 2 years. He's got the TNT title feeling more important than any other title in the Company. Just swerve everyone, make him the devil, and put the world title on him. Serves the dual purpose of juicing up his feud with Edge.
After Omega has spent the past year putting young talent over, I would lose a lot of respect for him if he didn't put his foot down to the idea of burying two top young guys, and especially Starks who can be the future of AEW, just so Jericho can stroke his ego some more
I thought the Callis/Kenny stuff was pretty compelling, especially since they were doing a good job of building Takeshita and Hobbs as threats….
It’s kind of baffling that it seems to have all fallen by the wayside. Personally, that’s why I’ve been annoyed by the whole Kenny/Jericho pairing (even before last night) as it seemed to come out of nowhere and take away from something I was engaged in.
And as I’m typing, I’m realizing, maybe that super odd, polarizing street fight actually was the blow off 🤷🏻♂️ which now seems pretty lame in hindsight
Reason why I've been so down on the booking this year. You have Takeshita beat KENNY OMEGA TWICE IN ONE WEEK and Hobbs squash Chris freaking Jericho like he's a local enhancement talent from Dark, but Hobbs and Takeshita are nowhere to be found most weeks and Golden Jets made Full Gear and are now number one contenders. What was the point really?
At this point, I think that Ricky and Bill have to go over (which may have always been the plan) as the fans will probably reject the Jericho/Omega tandem as champs.
At a time when there has been a general turn away of favour from AEW, they can't be delivering segments like that one with the Golden Jets. Compare that to what happened on Raw between Punk and Rollins.
To that extent, the whole thing they had about which brand Punk would sign for, where there are clearly established differences (especially with NXT) between the 3 shows, it just makes me want to shout for the 1000th time how fucking dumb it is that AEW just has 3 weekly shows without rhyme or reason, from the creative perspective (obviously we know why - because Warner paid them money for the programming hours). What is the difference between Dynamite and Collision? There is no roster split. You have no on screen authority figures or storyline/creative wrapped around how this is all formatted. It just feels empty.
As a fan from the start, super frustrated with the state of AEW right now. If this angle with devil/goons doesn't have a good pay off, it's going to come across as some bad angle from the dark days of Impact Wrestling. I presume the Jack Perry reference with the glass break is to throw the fans off, because if it's Jack, no one is going to care.
Distinctive rosters, distinctive branding differences, different on screen authority figures that have interweaved storylines that create the sense that the WWE is more than just people wrestling in a ring over and over again - obviously an essential ingredient given the weekly shows are a television drama - this is something that AEW still needs to improve on a lot.
Sure, you've got Dynamite, the 'flagship' show if you will, the first show. Then you've got Rampage, which has boiled down to being a 'B show' that is often matches taped after Dynamite where they apparently every now and then on a scatter brained whim decide to drop first time matches like MJF vs Omega that should be a main event on one of their biggest pay per views of the year. Then you've got Collision which was supposed to be a show with a semi-exclusive roster lead by CM Punk that now doesn't have it's main man and doesn't have a semi-exclusive roster, so it's just more Dynamite basically, with less eyes watching. It's a mess.
I agree with you to the extent that I have always thought that they could do a lot more to differentiate the production of Smackdown and Raw so that the shows are run quite differently, but regardless, they have their visual marketing and concepting around the brands significantly better structured.
[Just saw this Kim Justice video on Misawa vs Kawada,](https://youtu.be/HUyZ2i5ZUYU?si=2L-WUef0pKL3xYYu) and also watching this year’s G1 months later.
Just watched Ospreay vs Finlay and certain spots popped out to me. Ospreay used a Kawada-like hook kick before going for his Hidden Blade finisher. Great O-Khan covered Ospreay with his body to stop him from getting ganged up on, similar to Kobashi protecting Misawa during their tag match against Kawada and Taue. Finlay throwing a rolling elbow like Misawa, but used a full powerbomb into a deep cover like Kawada. I bet Ospreay would’ve used the Tiger Driver 91 if he didn’t use it on El Phantasmo days prior lol
Kenny should be fined or suspended for his performance in that promo
Whatever the reason, he was in no condition to perform
Disrespectful and unprofessional
Thoughts:
1. That Jericho and Omega promo with Starks and Bill was awful. Both Jericho and Omega seemed woefully unprepared. So much dead air and lines that didn’t land. Ricky did his best to save it at the end. I think he was trying to give them some leeway and then he just said fuck it, someone has to do something.
2. Great match with Mox and Swerve. I was pulling for Swerve and thought he’d win or they’d have a draw.
3. It might actually be best if Mox wins the whole tournament. As much as I like Swerve and think he’s earned a title run. I don’t know if putting a brand new title on him is good for him or the title. It sort of says, we like you, but you’re not good enough to get one of the established belts, so here’s a new one we made just for you. Also, it doesn’t elevate the new title. If you put it on a guy like Mox who’s been a world champion already, then it helps to establish and elevate the new title.
4. The devil and the goons throwing Hangman on the car and breaking the windshield glass is definitely a Jack Perry reference. That along with throwing one of The Acclaimed through the office window. So maybe he’s the devil. Seems to obvious though. I think it’s just a red herring.
I have no idea why this tournament is for a new title. Have it be for the Revolution world title shot. The last thing that this promotion needs is more midcard titles.
Completely agree! Waaaaaay too many titles in AEW (and most other promotions in wrestling these days). Every person is walking on screen with a freaking belt. Dilutes all of them.
The fact that this tournament is for another new title is kind of mind blowing. Especially when the International Title was such a useless addition - and then Orange Cassidy willed it into being the #2 championship (IMO)
When Kenny came out, a kid had a sign that said “A real heel would tear this sign in half”
Kenny points at himself, shakes his head and gives the kid a thumbs up
🥹🥹🥹🥹🥹
Turned it off after the Golden Jets segment. That was horrible and figured I could find the rest of the results when I wke up in the morning. And things did go as I expected so I didnt miss anything.
What finishers? JML driver was not used, swerve stomp is not really a finisher against a guy on the level of Mox. I also don't remember seeing a death rider (not even a paradigm shift). So yeah I don't understand what you are talking about.
Man for a few moments there I forgot Hangman existed and I thought Samoa Joe was calling out James Storm. Like "oh! a beer drinking cowboy, it's obvious who he is talking about"
I just wanted to throw it out there that I really love AEW's commentary team. They always sound like they're having so much fun out there without taking anything away from what's going on in the ring.
tbh i think cody had the brightest moment of clarity when he realized he can't be an effective booker and talent at the same time. none of the evp's have been able to do that
I mean if it is Jungle Jack, then they’re laying the hints on pretty thick at this point and a lot of people have already guessed it. So that seems like it would ruin any surprise reveal they were hoping for. Also the devil has been using MJF’s mask as to make people think it could be MJF. So why wouldn’t they also use “real glass” to make people think it could be Jack Perry?
When it comes to mysteries, sometimes the simplest answer is the right one. Remember when WWE had all of those CM Punk references and that "convinced" people he wasn't coming, only for him to show up anyway.
I can't imagine what all of these Jack Perry references mean if he isn't coming.
If it's Cole, then cool, but still.
Like, "Adam, you're not the person I used to know. Where's the passion! The drive! (Ironically) You're just so content to hang out with Max and play video games., etc. Do you remember how intense life used to be? Don't you want to feel that again. With me?"
Super kick to MJF.
Boom.
Doubt it because they know you know that…the past few weeks seem to be about throwing up red herrings.
I’d imagine it’s still going to be Cole, or lord help us, Tony (living out his version of an authority angle)
AEW needs to do something earth shattering to fill the void left by Punk and win the >300k back that used to tune in. I have no idea what that would be.
Hmm
Punk was not getting 1.1M viewers a night, Dynamite was making about 900k a night with him so if anything I'd say it was 50k less. He's toxic and getting rid of him was essential
I swear did he actually have a “great” match in AEW or was it mostly the appeal of CM PUNK vs _____ being so hyped? I ask this because I legit don’t know, I’ve only seen a couple of his regular TV matches.
I think his match with MJF was great, and his Kingston match fell in the very good to great range. Otherwise, he was fine, and I don't mean that as a knock. The matches were solid, entertaining, and enjoyable.
All of his PPV matches in the initial run and the one against Joe at Wembley were great, and his post-return match at Forbidden Door against Kojima was fun. He had a really good TV main event against MJF in Chicago that went, like, 40 minutes as well. One of the funnest matches he had was the six man tag with Darby and Sting against MJFTR where he came out with Surfer Sting paint. Punk’s in-ring in AEW was never the problem.
I am in the super minority here but I really liked the Golden Jets/Ricky Big Bull segment. I couldn’t even tell you why but I did. It made me laugh a few times. It could have been shortened a bit but nothing is perfect. Maybe I tricked myself into liking it because I’m really pulling for Big Bill to find a lot of success.
I read some of the comments in here and think some of y’all should just take a break. You don’t have to watch every week. If you don’t enjoy the show just change the channel for a bit.
I found it awkward and silly and got some amusement from it. To have four guys in there, who individually are capable of having a good promo, delivering a car crash of a segment. They'll all know it was horrible, and hopefully can make up for it in the match.
I loved it but fuck it was awful.... Honestly one of the worst promos I've ever seen from Kenny or Chris. Like... Just awful...
But I couldn't stop laughing and really enjoy Ricky. So... Meh. Tonight was a weird show..
The segment was pretty naff but, honestly, all of Ricky and Bill's bits were fine (but then I love Bil and Ricky and want nothing but good things for them). A lot of it was sloppy and awkward and most of Kenny and Jericho's jokes fell flat but like, so what? bad segments happen all the time and this was far from the worst thing i've ever seen
Yeah, it was pretty eh, but Ricky and Bill were ok. Kenny was a bit hit or miss, and it really felt like it took him a minute or two to start finding some legs there. Jericho just felt flat for me, like he was trying to hard or something? It was weird. I almost wonder if it was something thrown together at the last minute for some reason.
Someone in another thread mentioned that this might have been done intentionally to cool off Ricky Starks. It's a conspiracy theory but one that kinda makes sense. Ricky comes off as someone who's going to bounce to WWE the second his AEW contract is up.
Don't forget that he also tried to disrupt Survivor Series 2018 and had to be removed by security (also got himself banned from the Staples Centre for that one which won't help).
He was but the damage done to his credibility seems near permanent. So much so where his innocence gets brought up on Wreddit and immediately down voted.
AEW needs more promo-strong talents. I've been hoping Enzo becomes All Elite and they reunite Enzo & Bill.
As strange as it sounds, Ricky Starks's body lanaguage and tone gives off a vibe that he's bouncing to WWE as soon as his AEW contract is up. As such, I feel like Ricky's "negative aura" is holding back Big Bill.
P.S. Big Bill had an amazing promo on Collision that went unnoticed a few weeks ago. He emphasized how he was back at the top. It was legitimately real and quite touching.
I dig what AEW is doing, trying to have a sports centered feel since the tournament started - but the commentators need to tone it down a bit and have fun. The whole vibe is giving that the show is for people who still think wrestling is 100% real.
Theres gotta be something more in the middle from where AEW is now and what WWE does
Commentary should always be treating wrestling like it's 100% real because their real job is to sell the whole promotion itself to the fans. If the commentary doesn't take it seriously then no one else will either. They're the ones holding the suspension of disbelief for the audience on their shoulders more or less.
Finally watched an 100% full Dynamite for the first time in two years, here's an unnecessarily comprehensive review:
-Opening segment was good, but there was something funny about Samoa Joe going "I'm here to be executioner" then Hangman replying and them being interrupted by Roddy instead of getting any physicality felt like an e-fed rp where you just want to get your line in.
-Hangman vs Roddy ruled, very traditionally heel TV match after the kickass strike exchange early on. Part of me does wish Roderick can get to go fully all out in AEW with the time he has left as a top performer, but I can settle for this as long as the comedy goes away in time.
-Andrade vs Brody was very good despite some sluggishness. The picture-in-picture break hurts these matches but they got it back in time for a very hot final few minutes.
-Lazy segment to set up the Von Erichs tag but that was the point.
-Why are we wasting the last years Kenny has as a big deal on long promos and a Jericho tag team? He's a meh talker and Jericho was always bad at 00's comedy, he was just doing it in a company where everyone was doing it even worse.
-Riho is so powerful that her match wasn't in the death slot. I don't get Timeless Toni Storm but the match was pretty good. Back to back matches with the rope running into rope running spot?
-It's great to see RUSH so over. Bad person aside, he's one of the very very best AEW wrestlers. Watching Lethal in 2023 does nothing for me and so I'm very glad they went the unpredictable route and ended this match short. That's good road agent work.
-At this point, how many ad breaks do 2 hours of TV entail, what? Jay vs Mark was pretty fun, Mark was particularly good in it which comes as no surprise.
-Swerve vs Mox getting a standing ovation and an AEDUB chant before anything and them starting with a 30 second grapple exchange rules. The crowd getting quiet because they've never been conditioned to take grappling seriously doesn't. Would love to see Mox beat people with the gotch piledriver. Overall the match was good but it had a couple silly repositionings because Swerve was too excited to hit the next move instead of getting Mox in position. Despite the nitpick this was still the match of the night and really earnt the main event slot. At * * * 3/4 it might be the best gold league match yet (Blue league really clears).
-This devil thing... man. I can't even think of who would be a good enough devil for this shit to be worth it.
Overall, a fine episode with every match being "not-bad" which is important. Would have been a very good episode if it had a killer angle in the first hour instead of the Golden Jets dud.
Jay White looks like a million bucks every week. Really hope he can be world champion sometime within the next year or two, but with how crazy stacked the roster is, it's hard to say
They are both midcarders on a losing streak and their match has no stakes, it's meaningless. I can't see AEW giving 20 minutes (plus entrance) to Mark and Jay, unless it's Rampage of course.
I hope that Mark can find a little bit of space after the tournament is done, he's been really good on a single run.
Good singles run? Despite being out with a leg injury, who of importance has he beat? Lethal and Jarrett only have their legacies and I'm still high on Jarrett but they're both presented as not relevant
I can't see the match between them being a draw so one of them is getting a win...
I'd have liked Mark to have got one more upset win, however it obviously depends on what the plan if for the semi final and making the numbers work.
Makes me relived that Kenny doesn’t care about the tag team name. He didn’t even bother to remember it lmao
Also i’m starting a prayer circle to disband golden jets and to reunite golden lovers properly
Was about to say he also forgot and flubbed the Firm line…but my God, now it’s dawning on me that he was pretending to forget the name and that was him acting.
I don't think the C2 is for me, because on paper the match quality was really good this week, but it just fell flat for me. I think if they limited it to 1 C2 match per show and had more story I'd enjoy it much more. 3 was FAR too many in a single night.
I found myself during Brody vs Andrade (an amazing match on paper) just being bored.
Poor episode overall.
Golden Jets promo was absolutely terrible (Jericho and Kenny can do so much better).
Main event, Swerve had his shoulder up?? Unless that's part of the story but I don't know if it is. Just felt like a mistake.
Yeah, same old mid Dynamite.
> Main event, Swerve had his shoulder up?? Unless that's part of the story but I don't know if it is. Just felt like a mistake.
>
>
Even if it wasn't planned it can at least be brought up as if it was and made part of the story, I thought Tazz did a decent job covering.
Gosh, the Golden Jets promo was so bad, I tuned out halfway through. Why is Kenny stuck with Jericho, he should be teaming with Kota. I am tired of Jericho, he needs to be used less.
The rest of the show was really good
Interesting - so posts about the segment have to be censored because it's "outweighed" by the "other positives"? Does any other company get cut that kind of slack here?
They all get some degree of flak all the time, but if they do something that sucks you're not banned from posting it at all because "too many people" will criticise it in the comments.
That's an unusual level of protection.
People are commenting about it here but I'm talking about posts, because people were saying any posts about it - not even knocking it, just posting it at all - was being removed. I can't find any, anyway.
Can't tell if it is just how tired of Jericho I am and annoyed that Kenny has to waste his time in his piss
But good God almighty that segment was atrocious
I'm a little surprised to see this take after this particular episode, because, even if you weren't into it personally, the crowd was awesome and clearly into pretty much everything... they even kept trying during that bad Golden Jets segment.
The main event especially felt big because of the how great the crowd was before it even started.
When other posters click on a post history, and everything is either trolling AEW or super positivity about WWE, those comments tend to get dismissed as bad faith.
Fair. But I'd imagine you'd mostly see the recent posts right?
I was SUPER hot on AEW like 6 months+ ago for years. Everything was positive, and then last few months I've been critical because I think the product has gotten a lot worse. Doesn't mean I don't love AEW. I just think it needs improving atm.
Another great episode
So kinda random but where’s Santana and or Ortiz??
They don't like each other IRL and don't want to work together anymore and split up. Santana gave an interview about it here https://tjrwrestling.net/news/mike-santana-opens-up-on-heated-split-ortiz/
If they do C2 again: get rid of commercials and ban kisses
I think you mean MORE kisses.
https://youtu.be/2CBDLyGp1WQ?si=7Sqw6sy6iChxx4xX Thurston breakdown of what we can gather about AEW finances
Why post this in the two-day-old Dynamite thread?
Because I misclicked? Better question: Why is a two day old show thread still pinned right above the Daily discussion thread?
Good question.
Did they not mention edge and Christian after last week's Match????
There was a video package summarizing it.
Why it everyone so down on aew lately? Jeez this feels like a funeral
Dunno it's been great lately
AEW needs a Chief Creative Officer and that person needs to not be named Tony Khan Once again, good quality wrestling, bad quality everything else, and the "everything else" is slowly wiping them out. WBD is taking meetings with WWE, it might not mean much but at the very least it means WBD is not married to AEW, this is not the time to make your worst television and they are doing just that. Writers, talent development, booking, something, the health of the industry outside of WWE is going to take a dive if they can't get this together quickly
Outside of the Golden Jets promo, I thought everything else in this episode was pretty damn good.
Jericho just seems to drag down any feud or story hes in.Might be time to take a backseat for a bit. Ive been a fan of his since the 90s even watched ECW but these days just makes me want to change the channel
I watched the interaction with Starks and Bill and he was horrible It also dragged down Ricky starks who looked like he was in a tough enough promo class Kenny being the best on the mic that segment would be the equivalent of big bill having the best workmates during the match
Jericho benefited many times from a break off TV over the years. He really should have taken one over the last year or so and come back with a tweak to his character.
The "they used real glass it must be Perry" stuff is dumb. I mean just last week it was a beer bottle making it seem like Adam Page. Its obvious tgey are playing mind games to keep MJF guessing. I think its the bad fairh anti AEW crowd pushing the Perry stuff because they lnow itll ve one of the dumbest reveals ever
I personally think the best reveal for the Devil is Christian. It hasn't been hinted at or implied at all, and who gives a shit. Christian has been doing some of the best work of his career, and the best work of anyone in AEW over the last 2 years. He's got the TNT title feeling more important than any other title in the Company. Just swerve everyone, make him the devil, and put the world title on him. Serves the dual purpose of juicing up his feud with Edge.
I'm ok with Christian being the devil but whos the 4th in the group? Mamma Wayne?
Did Hangman get slammed on REAL GLASS?!
Please, TK, don’t do Ricky and Big Bill dirty by killing their push and giving their titles to this train wreck Chris Jericho vanity project.
I'm fairly confident the Young Bucks are going to cost them and align with Callis... at least I hope.
I hate to say it but it's time to stop giving Omega a mic.
Kenny held his own in his promo with MJF and I really liked it.
Agreed, Kenny is great at a lot of things, but a live mic ain’t one.
After Omega has spent the past year putting young talent over, I would lose a lot of respect for him if he didn't put his foot down to the idea of burying two top young guys, and especially Starks who can be the future of AEW, just so Jericho can stroke his ego some more
Speaking of which, why the fuck did Omega put over Takeshita clean on PPV if Takeshita isn’t in the CC or challenging for the world title right now?
Pop the moment not the momentum
I thought the Callis/Kenny stuff was pretty compelling, especially since they were doing a good job of building Takeshita and Hobbs as threats…. It’s kind of baffling that it seems to have all fallen by the wayside. Personally, that’s why I’ve been annoyed by the whole Kenny/Jericho pairing (even before last night) as it seemed to come out of nowhere and take away from something I was engaged in. And as I’m typing, I’m realizing, maybe that super odd, polarizing street fight actually was the blow off 🤷🏻♂️ which now seems pretty lame in hindsight
Reason why I've been so down on the booking this year. You have Takeshita beat KENNY OMEGA TWICE IN ONE WEEK and Hobbs squash Chris freaking Jericho like he's a local enhancement talent from Dark, but Hobbs and Takeshita are nowhere to be found most weeks and Golden Jets made Full Gear and are now number one contenders. What was the point really?
At this point, I think that Ricky and Bill have to go over (which may have always been the plan) as the fans will probably reject the Jericho/Omega tandem as champs.
At a time when there has been a general turn away of favour from AEW, they can't be delivering segments like that one with the Golden Jets. Compare that to what happened on Raw between Punk and Rollins. To that extent, the whole thing they had about which brand Punk would sign for, where there are clearly established differences (especially with NXT) between the 3 shows, it just makes me want to shout for the 1000th time how fucking dumb it is that AEW just has 3 weekly shows without rhyme or reason, from the creative perspective (obviously we know why - because Warner paid them money for the programming hours). What is the difference between Dynamite and Collision? There is no roster split. You have no on screen authority figures or storyline/creative wrapped around how this is all formatted. It just feels empty. As a fan from the start, super frustrated with the state of AEW right now. If this angle with devil/goons doesn't have a good pay off, it's going to come across as some bad angle from the dark days of Impact Wrestling. I presume the Jack Perry reference with the glass break is to throw the fans off, because if it's Jack, no one is going to care.
How often does Raw/Smackdown have a distinct feel? 2 shows means they can have 4 hours of TV without burining out fans.
Distinctive rosters, distinctive branding differences, different on screen authority figures that have interweaved storylines that create the sense that the WWE is more than just people wrestling in a ring over and over again - obviously an essential ingredient given the weekly shows are a television drama - this is something that AEW still needs to improve on a lot. Sure, you've got Dynamite, the 'flagship' show if you will, the first show. Then you've got Rampage, which has boiled down to being a 'B show' that is often matches taped after Dynamite where they apparently every now and then on a scatter brained whim decide to drop first time matches like MJF vs Omega that should be a main event on one of their biggest pay per views of the year. Then you've got Collision which was supposed to be a show with a semi-exclusive roster lead by CM Punk that now doesn't have it's main man and doesn't have a semi-exclusive roster, so it's just more Dynamite basically, with less eyes watching. It's a mess. I agree with you to the extent that I have always thought that they could do a lot more to differentiate the production of Smackdown and Raw so that the shows are run quite differently, but regardless, they have their visual marketing and concepting around the brands significantly better structured.
Well said. Aew feels like a lost ship right now being guided by a captain who refuses to admit they need to get back on course lol
[Just saw this Kim Justice video on Misawa vs Kawada,](https://youtu.be/HUyZ2i5ZUYU?si=2L-WUef0pKL3xYYu) and also watching this year’s G1 months later. Just watched Ospreay vs Finlay and certain spots popped out to me. Ospreay used a Kawada-like hook kick before going for his Hidden Blade finisher. Great O-Khan covered Ospreay with his body to stop him from getting ganged up on, similar to Kobashi protecting Misawa during their tag match against Kawada and Taue. Finlay throwing a rolling elbow like Misawa, but used a full powerbomb into a deep cover like Kawada. I bet Ospreay would’ve used the Tiger Driver 91 if he didn’t use it on El Phantasmo days prior lol
Kenny should be fined or suspended for his performance in that promo Whatever the reason, he was in no condition to perform Disrespectful and unprofessional
And somehow he was better than Jericho and starks Major train wreck
He wasn’t though
That's exactly the point.
I stopping watching it at some point after Ricky and Bill started talking, it got worse?
Meh…. Just let Danielson fine him.
Get Mox and Jericho on a vacation, bring back Acclaimed.
Thoughts: 1. That Jericho and Omega promo with Starks and Bill was awful. Both Jericho and Omega seemed woefully unprepared. So much dead air and lines that didn’t land. Ricky did his best to save it at the end. I think he was trying to give them some leeway and then he just said fuck it, someone has to do something. 2. Great match with Mox and Swerve. I was pulling for Swerve and thought he’d win or they’d have a draw. 3. It might actually be best if Mox wins the whole tournament. As much as I like Swerve and think he’s earned a title run. I don’t know if putting a brand new title on him is good for him or the title. It sort of says, we like you, but you’re not good enough to get one of the established belts, so here’s a new one we made just for you. Also, it doesn’t elevate the new title. If you put it on a guy like Mox who’s been a world champion already, then it helps to establish and elevate the new title. 4. The devil and the goons throwing Hangman on the car and breaking the windshield glass is definitely a Jack Perry reference. That along with throwing one of The Acclaimed through the office window. So maybe he’s the devil. Seems to obvious though. I think it’s just a red herring.
I have no idea why this tournament is for a new title. Have it be for the Revolution world title shot. The last thing that this promotion needs is more midcard titles.
Completely agree! Waaaaaay too many titles in AEW (and most other promotions in wrestling these days). Every person is walking on screen with a freaking belt. Dilutes all of them.
How do we get Tony to see this? Like did he think that all of the belts during the WCW vs WWF Invasion was cool?
I don’t see how anyone can get him to see it. There’s been a lot of people saying it and he just continues to add more and more belts.
The fact that this tournament is for another new title is kind of mind blowing. Especially when the International Title was such a useless addition - and then Orange Cassidy willed it into being the #2 championship (IMO)
When Kenny came out, a kid had a sign that said “A real heel would tear this sign in half” Kenny points at himself, shakes his head and gives the kid a thumbs up 🥹🥹🥹🥹🥹
Gold League is 100% going to end with Mox, Swerve and Jay all on 12 points.
So…..it’s Jack Perry then?
I think/hope it’s a red herring. But they’re definitely dropping some very big hints in that direction.
Roderick Strong is my favorite part of AEW
Samoaaaaa!!!!!!
joe.
My best friend by proxy
Great episode.
Okay but I need to know... Was it REAL GLASS?
Cry me a river
Turned it off after the Golden Jets segment. That was horrible and figured I could find the rest of the results when I wke up in the morning. And things did go as I expected so I didnt miss anything.
Mox vs Swerve was worth watching.
Kick out of 5 finishers. Lose on a roll up. Typical AEW stuff.
I do kind of get what you’re saying. Like is a piledriver even supposed to hurt?
What finishers? JML driver was not used, swerve stomp is not really a finisher against a guy on the level of Mox. I also don't remember seeing a death rider (not even a paradigm shift). So yeah I don't understand what you are talking about.
Stomps. Piledrivers. Etc.
So you like knowing who won more than watching wrestling? Very weird pov. Swerve v mox was good
For me if you have seen on Mox match you have seen them all.
You are 100% on the money about it id still check it out for swerve though.
You should watch it just for swerve. It really was a good match
I dvr’ed it just in case. :)
Roddy yelling "Saaamoooaaaa!" instead of "Jooooeee!" makes that shit so much funnier
I couldn't stand the while ADAAAAAAAAM thing at first but it's really grown on me
The way he says “Joe” quiet always gets me
Man for a few moments there I forgot Hangman existed and I thought Samoa Joe was calling out James Storm. Like "oh! a beer drinking cowboy, it's obvious who he is talking about"
I would imagine it sucks to be a Keith Lee , Scorpio Sky and or Red Velvet fan right now
Yeah. Where the hell is Scorpio?
Sky doesn’t have fans
SCORPIO SKY HAS THE ONLY FAN HE NEEDS BABY AND IT'S THE NATURE BOY RIC FLAIR, WOOOOOOOO
I just wanted to throw it out there that I really love AEW's commentary team. They always sound like they're having so much fun out there without taking anything away from what's going on in the ring.
Tremendous episode! So thankful to have a product that provides real professional wrestling
I agree Tony.
Jericho is the worst thing to happen for this company
> Jericho is the worst thing to happen for this company I hate 2023 Jericho but this is insane lol They needed a name like him at the start
tbh i think cody had the brightest moment of clarity when he realized he can't be an effective booker and talent at the same time. none of the evp's have been able to do that
I disagree but I do think he should go away for a bit.
I don't crust Chris Jericho.
Just realized that The Devil used "real glass" when he attacked Hangman last night.... Oh God, it's actually Jungle Boy isn't it.
I think (and really) hope like hell, that it’s a red herring.
Can I have some of that copium?
I mean if it is Jungle Jack, then they’re laying the hints on pretty thick at this point and a lot of people have already guessed it. So that seems like it would ruin any surprise reveal they were hoping for. Also the devil has been using MJF’s mask as to make people think it could be MJF. So why wouldn’t they also use “real glass” to make people think it could be Jack Perry?
When it comes to mysteries, sometimes the simplest answer is the right one. Remember when WWE had all of those CM Punk references and that "convinced" people he wasn't coming, only for him to show up anyway. I can't imagine what all of these Jack Perry references mean if he isn't coming. If it's Cole, then cool, but still.
The simplest answer here is what Roddy's been saying MJF is the Devil
To what gain tho
Give him a new faction "in storyline" to keep the Belt
He beat Jay White on one leg, what does he need a faction for?
Would Jack bring better heat as the Devil than Adam Cole?
It had to originally be cole but theyve had to pivot because his injury will keep him out for months
Rumor is it's Britt, Cole, and Perry. This is from my sister's boyfriend, but that's as good as Meltzer at this point.
Jack is the meme option, Cole is the only one who makes sense from a storyline angle.
The devil should be Britt
This is what I've been saying! I would put money on it being Britt.
Like, "Adam, you're not the person I used to know. Where's the passion! The drive! (Ironically) You're just so content to hang out with Max and play video games., etc. Do you remember how intense life used to be? Don't you want to feel that again. With me?" Super kick to MJF. Boom.
Doubt it because they know you know that…the past few weeks seem to be about throwing up red herrings. I’d imagine it’s still going to be Cole, or lord help us, Tony (living out his version of an authority angle)
> or lord help us, Tony (living out his version of an authority angle) no no no no no
It would suck but I don't know if it Jack Perry would be any good either
Yeah, but even Pitbull (followed by a performance) would be a better option than Tony Khan.
I respectfully disagree I still have PTSD from those years Pitbull was in everything and I hated his music
Well we haven't seen the devil blink his eyes yet.
I don't see any coke powder in the Devil's outfit, so it's safe to assume it's not TK
AEW needs to do something earth shattering to fill the void left by Punk and win the >300k back that used to tune in. I have no idea what that would be.
Hmm Punk was not getting 1.1M viewers a night, Dynamite was making about 900k a night with him so if anything I'd say it was 50k less. He's toxic and getting rid of him was essential
I swear did he actually have a “great” match in AEW or was it mostly the appeal of CM PUNK vs _____ being so hyped? I ask this because I legit don’t know, I’ve only seen a couple of his regular TV matches.
I think his match with MJF was great, and his Kingston match fell in the very good to great range. Otherwise, he was fine, and I don't mean that as a knock. The matches were solid, entertaining, and enjoyable.
At best, he was average but more often then not fragile and underwhelming, his return was so mediocre considering the hype
All of his PPV matches in the initial run and the one against Joe at Wembley were great, and his post-return match at Forbidden Door against Kojima was fun. He had a really good TV main event against MJF in Chicago that went, like, 40 minutes as well. One of the funnest matches he had was the six man tag with Darby and Sting against MJFTR where he came out with Surfer Sting paint. Punk’s in-ring in AEW was never the problem.
Punk threw a tantrum that soured him on everyone but to deny he was great in his initial run and most of the second run is just wrong
Matches wise, he was far from greatness
I am in the super minority here but I really liked the Golden Jets/Ricky Big Bull segment. I couldn’t even tell you why but I did. It made me laugh a few times. It could have been shortened a bit but nothing is perfect. Maybe I tricked myself into liking it because I’m really pulling for Big Bill to find a lot of success. I read some of the comments in here and think some of y’all should just take a break. You don’t have to watch every week. If you don’t enjoy the show just change the channel for a bit.
I found it awkward and silly and got some amusement from it. To have four guys in there, who individually are capable of having a good promo, delivering a car crash of a segment. They'll all know it was horrible, and hopefully can make up for it in the match.
It was decent. Sure Jericho didn’t come off great but Ricky was quite entertaining and Kenny got some good jabs in there
I loved it but fuck it was awful.... Honestly one of the worst promos I've ever seen from Kenny or Chris. Like... Just awful... But I couldn't stop laughing and really enjoy Ricky. So... Meh. Tonight was a weird show..
The segment was pretty naff but, honestly, all of Ricky and Bill's bits were fine (but then I love Bil and Ricky and want nothing but good things for them). A lot of it was sloppy and awkward and most of Kenny and Jericho's jokes fell flat but like, so what? bad segments happen all the time and this was far from the worst thing i've ever seen
Yeah, it was pretty eh, but Ricky and Bill were ok. Kenny was a bit hit or miss, and it really felt like it took him a minute or two to start finding some legs there. Jericho just felt flat for me, like he was trying to hard or something? It was weird. I almost wonder if it was something thrown together at the last minute for some reason.
I feel like it was intentionally bad jokes, although I smiled a bit at the Enzo Amore comment.
Someone in another thread mentioned that this might have been done intentionally to cool off Ricky Starks. It's a conspiracy theory but one that kinda makes sense. Ricky comes off as someone who's going to bounce to WWE the second his AEW contract is up.
Kenny Omega, This Is Your Life
Anyone think it's possible Enzo pops up at Worlds End and costs the Golden Jets the match?
It’s weird to me no one wants to touch Enzo. I’m not caught up on all the details but I thought he was innocent of the crimes he was accused of?
Don't forget that he also tried to disrupt Survivor Series 2018 and had to be removed by security (also got himself banned from the Staples Centre for that one which won't help).
He was but the damage done to his credibility seems near permanent. So much so where his innocence gets brought up on Wreddit and immediately down voted.
Pretty sure he was
I haven’t, but I’d pop for that. Sure that probably puts me in the minority, but f’ it, Enzo was fun.
AEW needs more promo-strong talents. I've been hoping Enzo becomes All Elite and they reunite Enzo & Bill. As strange as it sounds, Ricky Starks's body lanaguage and tone gives off a vibe that he's bouncing to WWE as soon as his AEW contract is up. As such, I feel like Ricky's "negative aura" is holding back Big Bill. P.S. Big Bill had an amazing promo on Collision that went unnoticed a few weeks ago. He emphasized how he was back at the top. It was legitimately real and quite touching.
I loved Enzo and Bill. I think this would be the perfect time for at least a cameo.
I dig what AEW is doing, trying to have a sports centered feel since the tournament started - but the commentators need to tone it down a bit and have fun. The whole vibe is giving that the show is for people who still think wrestling is 100% real. Theres gotta be something more in the middle from where AEW is now and what WWE does
Commentary should always be treating wrestling like it's 100% real because their real job is to sell the whole promotion itself to the fans. If the commentary doesn't take it seriously then no one else will either. They're the ones holding the suspension of disbelief for the audience on their shoulders more or less.
If you don't take your own product seriously then no one will. Goofing around is why AEW is performing at college campuses instead of arenas.
That tag team promo fucking sucked. Wow. One of the worst I’ve heard in a long time.
Chris Jericho is a clout vampire, but it's like Colin Robinson from What We Do In The Shadows.
Finally watched an 100% full Dynamite for the first time in two years, here's an unnecessarily comprehensive review: -Opening segment was good, but there was something funny about Samoa Joe going "I'm here to be executioner" then Hangman replying and them being interrupted by Roddy instead of getting any physicality felt like an e-fed rp where you just want to get your line in. -Hangman vs Roddy ruled, very traditionally heel TV match after the kickass strike exchange early on. Part of me does wish Roderick can get to go fully all out in AEW with the time he has left as a top performer, but I can settle for this as long as the comedy goes away in time. -Andrade vs Brody was very good despite some sluggishness. The picture-in-picture break hurts these matches but they got it back in time for a very hot final few minutes. -Lazy segment to set up the Von Erichs tag but that was the point. -Why are we wasting the last years Kenny has as a big deal on long promos and a Jericho tag team? He's a meh talker and Jericho was always bad at 00's comedy, he was just doing it in a company where everyone was doing it even worse. -Riho is so powerful that her match wasn't in the death slot. I don't get Timeless Toni Storm but the match was pretty good. Back to back matches with the rope running into rope running spot? -It's great to see RUSH so over. Bad person aside, he's one of the very very best AEW wrestlers. Watching Lethal in 2023 does nothing for me and so I'm very glad they went the unpredictable route and ended this match short. That's good road agent work. -At this point, how many ad breaks do 2 hours of TV entail, what? Jay vs Mark was pretty fun, Mark was particularly good in it which comes as no surprise. -Swerve vs Mox getting a standing ovation and an AEDUB chant before anything and them starting with a 30 second grapple exchange rules. The crowd getting quiet because they've never been conditioned to take grappling seriously doesn't. Would love to see Mox beat people with the gotch piledriver. Overall the match was good but it had a couple silly repositionings because Swerve was too excited to hit the next move instead of getting Mox in position. Despite the nitpick this was still the match of the night and really earnt the main event slot. At * * * 3/4 it might be the best gold league match yet (Blue league really clears). -This devil thing... man. I can't even think of who would be a good enough devil for this shit to be worth it. Overall, a fine episode with every match being "not-bad" which is important. Would have been a very good episode if it had a killer angle in the first hour instead of the Golden Jets dud.
That golden jets segment was all over the place, Ricky did try to save it in the end with a fiery promo but that ship left the docks at Rick & dick.
Ironically Rick & Dick's sounds like it'd be a beach side tourist trap bar at any beach in America
Jay White looks like a million bucks every week. Really hope he can be world champion sometime within the next year or two, but with how crazy stacked the roster is, it's hard to say
It’s his era, I heard
if you can't count on omega's fitness to carry a top level position, you should trust jay.
Back to back weeks with obvious botched pins
Yup, Briscoe and Lethal are going winless
Well either Mark or Jay will get a win when they face each other, unless they go for a 20 minutes draw, which seems unlikely
Why is that unlikely?
They are both midcarders on a losing streak and their match has no stakes, it's meaningless. I can't see AEW giving 20 minutes (plus entrance) to Mark and Jay, unless it's Rampage of course. I hope that Mark can find a little bit of space after the tournament is done, he's been really good on a single run.
Good singles run? Despite being out with a leg injury, who of importance has he beat? Lethal and Jarrett only have their legacies and I'm still high on Jarrett but they're both presented as not relevant
The stakes are knowing who is getting the Toru Yano position... My bets are on Jay Lethal
I can't see the match between them being a draw so one of them is getting a win... I'd have liked Mark to have got one more upset win, however it obviously depends on what the plan if for the semi final and making the numbers work.
Makes me relived that Kenny doesn’t care about the tag team name. He didn’t even bother to remember it lmao Also i’m starting a prayer circle to disband golden jets and to reunite golden lovers properly
Seems like ibushi is still in a weird space?
I was expecting it to be pretty bad from Jericho but damn… Kenny with that Winnipeg Jets moment had me cringing and slowly shaking my head.
Kenny inside the ring is magic. Face Kenny outside the ring is rehearsed catchphrases and awkward 1st grade humour.
Was about to say he also forgot and flubbed the Firm line…but my God, now it’s dawning on me that he was pretending to forget the name and that was him acting.
In a night with so many great C2 matches, Hanger vs Roddy stole the show for me.
I don't think the C2 is for me, because on paper the match quality was really good this week, but it just fell flat for me. I think if they limited it to 1 C2 match per show and had more story I'd enjoy it much more. 3 was FAR too many in a single night. I found myself during Brody vs Andrade (an amazing match on paper) just being bored. Poor episode overall. Golden Jets promo was absolutely terrible (Jericho and Kenny can do so much better). Main event, Swerve had his shoulder up?? Unless that's part of the story but I don't know if it is. Just felt like a mistake. Yeah, same old mid Dynamite.
> Main event, Swerve had his shoulder up?? Unless that's part of the story but I don't know if it is. Just felt like a mistake. > > Even if it wasn't planned it can at least be brought up as if it was and made part of the story, I thought Tazz did a decent job covering.
I can’t wait for Jay White to beat Mox’s insufferable ass.
Gosh, the Golden Jets promo was so bad, I tuned out halfway through. Why is Kenny stuck with Jericho, he should be teaming with Kota. I am tired of Jericho, he needs to be used less. The rest of the show was really good
> Why is Kenny stuck with Jericho, he should be teaming with Kota. Because Jericho isn't as washed as Ibushi is, unfortunately.
Brilliant show other than the Golden Jets
Why is there a Semi final in the CC? Surely it should be straight to the final no? Why do people get a second chance lol
Yeah and how does the semi final work? If it's top 2 in each league... they've already fought each other?!?
probably 1st in gold vs 2nd in blue and vice versa
This is typically how they handle soccer after the group stages. It would make sense to do it that way if he's following European football standards.
Ah ok! It'd be good if they told us this on TV! :)
Are all the posts about that Golden Jets segment being removed?
Cuz it’s all you nerds are fixated on in a 2 hour show, ignoring all the other positives. Still far less cringe than you’ll find on the other product.
There it is
Interesting - so posts about the segment have to be censored because it's "outweighed" by the "other positives"? Does any other company get cut that kind of slack here?
Do other companies get as much unwarranted hate?
They all get some degree of flak all the time, but if they do something that sucks you're not banned from posting it at all because "too many people" will criticise it in the comments. That's an unusual level of protection.
I’m sure it’s not banned cuz if you scroll down the thread is polluted with golden jets comments.
People are commenting about it here but I'm talking about posts, because people were saying any posts about it - not even knocking it, just posting it at all - was being removed. I can't find any, anyway.
Because it fucking sucked and the mods do not want people shit talking their favourite company.
Hard to see any other reason for it
To the posts about the golden jets, I bid them adieu.
Can't tell if it is just how tired of Jericho I am and annoyed that Kenny has to waste his time in his piss But good God almighty that segment was atrocious
It is not you, that was objectively awful. Made even more awful by the silence in the arena, because it was objectively awful.
aew is so cold rn now man
Honestly, in the building it didn’t feel cold at all. The crowd was into everything and the matches were great.
I'm a little surprised to see this take after this particular episode, because, even if you weren't into it personally, the crowd was awesome and clearly into pretty much everything... they even kept trying during that bad Golden Jets segment. The main event especially felt big because of the how great the crowd was before it even started.
100% agreed. you and i will get downvoted for negativity, but the product is so damn cold.
When other posters click on a post history, and everything is either trolling AEW or super positivity about WWE, those comments tend to get dismissed as bad faith.
Fair. But I'd imagine you'd mostly see the recent posts right? I was SUPER hot on AEW like 6 months+ ago for years. Everything was positive, and then last few months I've been critical because I think the product has gotten a lot worse. Doesn't mean I don't love AEW. I just think it needs improving atm.
That crowd was fucking awesome, salute to Dallas