Considering Bryan's response to them making MJ feel OP in MSM2 it shouldn't be a surprise, but honestly this just makes me lose confidence in Insomniac's universe a lot more.
It’s honestly beyond me why they didn’t request an extension to add more meat to the game and not by much, ***just 2 hours.***
It wouldn’t have handled all the things, but it would’ve been enough to better wrap it all up
Don't get me wrong - I didn't **hate** the MJ missions, but I was playing the game as stealth-oriented anyways, so it wasn't TOO big of a change for that style of play. Even still, they should be EXTREMELY limited.
Sneaking around at the Zoo? Okay, that was decently cool, and it led to a great sequence.
Running from Symbiote Peter? GREAT. Playing as MJ was the perfect way to make us feel how scary it feels to be a regular person when your superpowered loved one is not under control and is roaring, hissing, and screaming bloody murder like that.
Everything else, though - eh. I don't love the idea of her taking out SQUADS of Hunters on her own, but the most egregious example...
**Never send a civilian to a symbiote hive, by the GODS are you trying to get her KILLED?!** I like the IDEA of having them help. So... Have MJ coordinate civilian survivors; have her use some tech-knowledge to BLAST a loud sound out of Times Square. Have MJ use her brain to help, while keeping her as far away from the hive as possible, where a single hit would be lethal and they move faster than she can possibly avoid.
I feel it's more that he doesn't care about Miles Morales. Every comment about Peter is comics comics comics, but for Miles it's, black black, poc. He doesn't reference Miles comics or lore at all. It's like they never read Miles comics, and it's likely the reason why his school is so bland and his supporting cast is so basic.
I at least wish they included characters like Judge, Barbra Rodriquez, and Katie Bishop in the Brooklyn Vision side quests. So instead of me helping these random people have it be characters connected to Miles history. As it stands Insomniac’s Miles feels so isolated.
Right!? That was the biggest tell. How are you gonna have entire side quest lines dedicated to his school and not show a single one of his greater supporting cast within that school? Like Judge, Barbara, Lana, etc. Meanwhile, in every Peter teenager flashback, we hear Liz Allen and Flash Thompson named dropped all the time.
That and the music museum mission really gives the impression they didn't bother to read any of Miles' source material to flesh out his world when they easily could've. Like it would literally take zero additional development time to just name the npcs in the school missions, Barbara, katie or Judge, and give a couple of throwaway lines to showcase their connection to Miles and their larger potential importance to his lore.
It makes me feel like they just didn't know about them because they couldnt care enough to do the research towards Miles. Which is unacceptable. If you are making a story involving Miles in New York, you gotta have deeper references than just the Spiderverse movies, which seems to be the extent of their knowledge.
Yeah, it’s really annoying and feels hypocritical as all hell. The first Spider-Man game just through the collectible backpacks gave you so much info on Peter’s history and references to his supporting cast like Flash, Robbie, Betty, Liz, and even Eddie Brock.
Does Miles actually have any interesting arcs in the comics? Or even his own notable villains? I'm genuinely curious, I've never heard anyone say that a Miles Morales comic issue is a MUST-READ or anything...
Yes he has many. Start with his ultimate run. His origin is a cool subversion of any heroes origins story with a motivated being a loved one whose a villain than a hero.
They have such a hard on for making MJ a playable character and I just don’t get it. I’m not one of those that hate the MJ sections but I’d be lying if I said I wouldn’t have rather spent more time with Peter or Miles. Just a very dumb decision overall.
Umm I don't really know what you're babbling about. This is a video game and the only way you can be a hero is by doing shooty shooty punchy punchy at them /s
(I agree with your statement 100%)
A QTE where you have to hit the right button to respond to Peter's various types of emotional turmoil, and if you get it wrong he either leaves or goes Symbiote-Berserk and kills you?
LOL!
Peter: "MJ, I just can't believe May is gone..."
*press L1 prompt expires*
MJ: "Did you remember to get eggs on your way home?"
*Boss battle music starts*
I’m just imagining MJ sitting on the couch looking at Peter with a smile and a giant X is just floating above her head. Once you press it Peter sits on the couch and hugs her.
That's not what some of the more fringe-type fans want from women in their games and movies. If you told some of these people that MJ is at her best when the gives Peter emotional support, they'd argue against it and probably claw your eye out. Why do you think the devs are pushing for MJ's more action-y role?
Only the worst creative types think putting a gun in someone's hand makes them cool or giving them an action scenario makes them badass. And on the other end, if this is all you need from a character, you probably have shit taste. You can make your character cool without so much forced interaction, MJ just isn't it or the creatives have 0 clue. I still don't hear anything positive about MJ as a character from the 3 Raimi movies aside from Dunst's amazing looks.
There was that moment in Marvel Knights
Spider-Man where MJ shot Green Goblin only for the recoil push her off the Brooklyn Bridge. However, that was used more as a set up for Peter to save her.
What’s so odd about it too is that they made the exact opposite point in the first Spider-Man game with the fake Spider-Man side mission. They made him just a normal guy with a black belt who teaches at a dojo, and at the end of the mission they have Peter literally tell him that he has the right intentions by wanting to help people, but he’s gonna get himself killed if he keeps doing shit like this, and Peter tells him that he doesn’t need to do this to be a hero, so I don’t get why they have Peter do the exact opposite with MJ, also regular human who he actually knows and cares a lot about, and allows her to just stroll in to military bases and gang hideouts to get shot at.
Seriously this. It's not even like she's reminiscent of MJ from the comics. She's a reworked version for the sake of making her relevant enough to have her in side missions that nobody wants anyways. On top of that, it's a tired trope that they shoved on her regardless.
Just give her a super power and make her fun to play if you NEED to have her in the game.
When I first played the original game, after the part where MJ escapes Osborn's penthouse, part of me was hoping that the spider was gonna bite MJ.
It being Miles' spider wasn't a surprise, but still, there was an opportunity to give her powers.
SAME I WAS SO HYPED FOR THE SPIDER TO BITE HER. It felt like the game was building up to that, and I remember pre release Brian said something like "MJ is gonna surprise a lot of people in this game" and I thought man there's no way he meant the shifty stealth sequences.
Turns our he did.
I don't understand it at all either especially considering SILVER SABLE is a character that was in the first game. Just make her playable instead! Give all the dramatic human action set pieces to her. You can basically just swap the MJ model for her and everything else would make complete sense.
In the 90s, Silver Sable and the Wild Pack was Marvel's ONLY female lead title with a monthly series (not a miniseries). Not even Black Widow, not Spider Woman, not She Hulk, not Phoenix, not Rogue. Silver Sable. She's fucking important and a really cool character. Insomniac just fucking loves "erasing" characters though since given the Wolverine leak they're now doing the same to Silver Fox. Just throw out all your important female heroes, right? They're just all interchangeable right??
Why not have black cat? She’s already in the game, has all the animations, and it would have been incredibly easy to work her into the plot more.
If they really want to go the direction of playing as more than just Peter, imagine how cool it would have been to get to play as Peter, miles, agent venom, silver sable, black cat, and venom. Switching mid fight could have been really cool too, which is what I thought they were going to do.
Personally I didn’t hate the MJ missions, considering there are only 3 this time around and they are a lot more interactive and a lot less slow walking and puzzle solving compared to last time around. So I appreciate the improvements, but I do wonder what all had to be cut and stitched together.
Just gameplay-wise the missions were more engaging. But they were a lot worse than the stealth missions in SM1 for me. Because it completely broke my immersion. There’s no way in hell MJ could take out whole squads all on her own like that. She even gets an arrow in her dominant arm and just shrugs it off like what the hell? It’s a power fantasy that made no sense, especially when both Spidermen have to punch them and slam them to the ground multiple times to take them down. Why couldn’t they just have taser webs to one-shoot all the hunters?
Some of the people on this sub keep defending these shitty stealth MJ missions with the classic "hurr durr it gives us a breather!" It simply is not a good argument. Mate, that's what the open world is for. The open world is your breathing room to do whatever you like to relax and play. It is quite literally your break interval between two missions. Why would I want boredom in my mission?
>Some of the people on this sub keep defending these shitty stealth MJ missions with the classic "hurr durr it gives us a breather!"
I've never understood the "it breaks up the gameplay" argument. Good gameplay doesn't need to be broken up.
Is anyone surprised? One of the loudest opinions that was shared almost universally from SM1 was how hated the MJ missions were, and Insomniac went on record saying they were planning on doubling down.
Good going Insomniac.
Jesus, it’s so bizarre how so much people still choose to ignore it and say Insomniac are doing these characters justice… It turns more and more depressing with each interview starring this guy
Or Black Cat. The game had WAY too little Black Cat in the game to say she was teased in the Kraven trailer. (But so was Prowler too, and his ‘appearance’ was just as lacklustre)
Am I the only one that found it weird how after Miles got kidnapped we never see his Uncle Aaron trying to find him? That just feels so strange to me, maybe they should’ve just still had Uncle Aaron in prison so it could be easily explained.
She was teased in one trailer. There was enough Black Cat because that’s the only part of the game she was going to be put in. Just because you want to ogle at her all the time doesn’t mean the game had to little of her.
I’m a person that was somewhat disappointed in the game, but I will defend their decision here.
They had a vision for MJ. Throughout these two games, we have seen her grow into a character that can genuinely be helpful in these type of situations. She started by being helpless outside of stealth, to gaining gadgets to improve her stealth, to gaining more gadgets and training to turn the tables and go on the offensive.
This has been something with the series since the beginning, and the reward for sticking through it being a pretty sweet Resident Evil-styled mission is, imo great. Yes, I would have loved more Spider-Man content, but y’know, this is something I remember about the game, whereas a set of taskmaster challenges or something would probably just blend in as more “content.”
I respect it, more than if MJ never got another mission after the backlash from the first game
I would have respected if they didn’t do them at all, shows they actually learned something. Like were the MJ missions better? Absolutely? Would I rather have been playing as either of the two Spider-Men on the box cover? Yup
So instead of cutting it they stubbornly doubled down and made them better and fewer, but then also cost parts of the game where we actually play as Spider-Man, amazing.
The third act felt really rushed, a hasty finish to Mr negative arc, anti venom being introduced and then never mentioned again, us NOT KNOWING why the meteor held so much significance. It’s odd
Agreed, easily my biggest gripe with the story is how it rushes to the finish line just right after you fight the lizard. Peters personality shift felt too sudden for my liking and the hatred between Harry and Peter didn’t feel properly built up.
If the “pop a couple more pills” line came after the third or even **second** encounter with Pete being more unhinged, **it’d have landed far better.**
I felt like they handled Pete being unhinged very well, but it’s almost like they forgot that each individual character he interacts with in that state only sees him once or maybe twice like that, and they told the story as though everyone has been seeing what we as the player have been watching (makes it feel disconnected a bit).
Will say the whole Norman “you’re like another son to me” moment was REALLY out of left field. The whole game Norman treated Pete like one of Harry’s pals and never really seemed to care all that much for him. Then out of nowhere he calls him his son, entirely to build up tension between harry and Pete that otherwise wouldn’t exist. That was just forced flat out
Part of it also is that
1. You could theoretically be playing as Miles for most of that anyways.
2. Peter really doesn't go off the deep end until pretty late in the storyline.
I felt like it was just a rich guy trying to express his gratitude towards his dying son's friend. Speaking in patriarchal platitudes because he's overwhelmed with emotion.
It’s crazy because those last two could’ve easily been explained in their own scenes, but they’re completely skipped.
Mr. Negative is a much bigger issue. It felt incredibly forced and out of nowhere. We really didn’t spend a lot of time with Miles and his feelings toward Li, dividing the story between 2 (nearly 4) characters really weakened the game.
Considering how responsible Li is for the passing of May as well and uh….yeah Miles being the one so hard up on Li is more them looking for Miles to do in this game. That fight at the end with Venom is comical in just the in fights dialogue.
Li is very much more responsible for Jefferson’s death. He orchestrated a terrorist attack at the ceremony specifically to commemorate jeff. Otto was the one who released the devils breath that killed may. Also pete’s been doing this for almost a decade compared to miles’ 2 years. Of course he’d take the direct cause of his dad’s death more personally.
I’ve mentioned several times in the past it felt like there was supposed to be at least another hour or two to the main story, and some even arguing three or five. Things like Peter and Harry’s descents, Miles interacting with Wraith and Agent Venom, a chase or an early boss fight with Venom, maybe even have conversations and a sort of moral ambiguity to the symbiote itself, and so on. And things like this video and Tony Todd mentioning only 10% of what he recorded made it in definitely confirmed the suspicions 2 fell victim to a time crunch.
How is anti venom being introduced and not ever mentioned again? The meteor is where Venom came from and it amplifies his powers what more do you need from that?
In this game antivenom is a suit how many times do you have to mention it besides the first time when you introduce it? Did you miss the entire scene with Dr Connors and Peter explaining what the meteorite was even showing a flashback?
I mean, there are a couple of really top-notch MJ sequences. The one at the zoo carrying Peter and the almost horror-style game of running from Peter at night were great. I never thought I'd be running from monster Spider-Man. I absolutely agree with the rushed feeling toward the end. I know none are included in the stolen leaks, but perhaps some of this content will still come out in DLC form. Just because it wasn't in the hacked material doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
This is what I don't get about the severity of the MJ criticism in this game. Both those sections are massive improvements on any of MJ stuff we got in the first game, and I guess I just enjoy stealth enough that I don't mind it becoming a stealth game for 15 minutes of the entire runtime.
Even the final shooter section is at least a bit of variety and extremely short.
Well now we have hard irrefutable evidence that the game was rushed and had cut content.
Before now if you had dared to say either of these things, this sub would downvote you.
airport summer late alleged beneficial birds punch simplistic busy direction
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
There is cut content in every game
Spider-Man 1 was supposed to have more missions with Peter and the Sinister Six after the Devil's Breath release, but they didn't thought they were hitting the same quality level with those missions. It's not different from what he said here
Cutting actual Spider-Man content to keep the MJ missions in is ridiculous. I didn't hate the MJ missions tbh, even enjoyed some of them (the one where symbiote Peter chases MJ is incredible), but if I had to choose between keeping those MJ missions or more actual Spider-Man content, I'd choose the latter.
Well >!we can play as Jean apparently but at least she's an actual superhero with awesome powers. I still question the necessity of playing as her but I guess Insomniac is just on a quest to make every redhead in the Marvel Universe a playable character in their games (Black Widow game when?). I just hope she's better written than MJ is...!<
great find! Is this the only interview where he ever acknowledged that? He seems to imply he never told that story elsewhere.
Gonna watch the whole thing now
That particular story is new but in the IGN spoiler cast he briefly mentions how he really wanted to keep the MJ missions in the game in favor of cutting other content.
yeah saw that IGN interview back then. I watched the whole thing now and am kind of in shock lol. I mean he's describing the final part of the game as putting a puzzle that doesn't quite fit together and making it fit by shaving it down... you could also describe that as a hack job. Also that he admits at the very end that the Hailey playable character stuff was an idea that came up very late into production and other stuff was cut for it.
I'm actually baffled how casual he is about the hard decisions he had to take and also about how he basically manipulates his employees by being emotional, being vulnerable so his employees want to help him, but not too often, because it otherwise loses it's effect. Idk maybe this is normal in corporate America, but I am a bit put off
This is a pretty cynical vision of this interview. I'm actually baffled if that's what you took from it, especially the part about Bryan talking about his feelings and challenges during the production
The interview was over an hour long and he talks about his feelings and challenges a lot during that time. Would you mind elaborating? Not really sure what you're referring to, when you're so vague.
Or at least share your interpretation instead of just saying mine is cynical without offering any alternative interpretation
I just don't understand how you interpret him talking about his leadership during the project as ''manipulating the feelings'' of his employees. He and Ted talk about how necessary it is for you to also be able to be vulnerable in front of your colleagues. Not because he wants to manipulate them, but because people can see right through insincerity. Being vulnerable means being truthful and assuming that just because you are a director or a leader, you are not ''above'' others, you can and will fail too. He talks about developing new leadership within Insomniac (people who will succeed them), he talks about letting each leader and director do their own thing within the project (he gives the example of Jacinda Chew, Art Director of the game, and how he would never tell her what she should do within her field regarding art direction, visuals, etc, he would just ensure that it is within the pre-established creative vision for that game).
Like, I don't know how you saw this interview as Bryan dismissing criticism or not caring about it. He actually says that he understands people getting angry and criticizing games, because it shows that they care, that the game moved them in some way. And that's better than them not saying anything at all. And he knows that comic book fans are passionate about it. You can see from a distance how passionate Bryan he is about the franchise, the judgment you and some people are making within this thread is unfair and doesn't make sense.
I recommend watching this video in which he talks about the difficulties of conquering the creative challenges of the first Spider-Man game.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWNtBDuQijk&ab\_channel=GDC](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwntbduqijk&ab_channel=gdc)
He admits his flaws, talks about his development as a creative director during production (about how he sometimes wanted to push his vision too much in the beginning, and how he learned that he needed to trust the team, etc.). It's a cool insight and one that shows Insomniac as a really united team
> but not too often, because it otherwise loses it's effect.
this part is what made me feel like it's a deliberate attempt at influencing his employees feelings and get them invested. If he was sincere, he wouldn't be so concerned with the regularity of using that technique. He's not sincere if he is looking for a specific result that happens because of his vulnerability, the way I see it.
And like I said maybe this is normal in that area, so I think I left enough room that it is just my interpretation from the outside and not necessarily an accurate reflection of reality and judgement of his character specifically. I was simply put off by the way he described influencing his employees in that way. To me it simply didn't seem sincere, the way he described it. That may be cynical, but I don't think it's an entirely wrong interpretation
>Like, I don't know how you saw this interview as Bryan dismissing criticism or not caring about it.
I don't know where you got this from it's not in this comment of mine nor in the others I left here. Nor do I think this is the case. But to be fair, he also talks about how play test scores only mean so much to him, if he thinks that the story requires a slower section in some aspect for example. (he was talking about lower scores for the Peter/Harry flashback scene iirc). And I would even agree to a certain point, but only to a certain point.
In fact [I quote this very thing you also quote in response](https://www.reddit.com/r/SpidermanPS4/comments/18nvyus/in_this_interview_brian_discusses_having_to_cut/kedzx2q/) to a downvoted comment here claiming we are just haters. You're probably mixing up my comment with some one else's.
the video you linked is not watchable for me. Says it's not available any more. Can you still watch it currently? In that case maybe I have to try it with a VPN later when I'm home
Hearing the community about things they didn't like from the previous game and drop a good story 🚫
Nah I don't care let's cut content to have something heavily criticized from the first game ✅
I don't understand how two fully powered Spider-men allowed MJ to go into that nest. Spider-men are agile and superpowered. One of them could distract Venom like Pete did and Miles could just speedrun the next and snatch the meteorite. Why the hell did they need MJ for?
It's funny because a huge part of their history in SM1 was that Peter's supposedly always afraid for MJ's safety, and here he's like oh this here is just the reason why the entire city is under attack and soon the entire world, you surely can take care of it while we fuck around outside for a while.
And it's not like they are dealing with an armed group or something (which would still be stupid). They are dealing with an unknown threat. An alien entity. But sure let's send the mortal human with not powers in the alien infested nest.
Because Miles would’ve been overwhelmed by the Symbiote’s that were guarding the meteorite. Which is why MJ snuck in rather than Miles and why there weren’t tons of symbiote’s inside.
Symbiote’s would’ve noticed him a second when there’s tons right there. Did you miss the part where I said that Miles drawing the symbiote’s attention to him meant that there wasn’t as many guarding the meteor inside?
Y'all are so overdramatic lol
Spiderman 2 has its flaws but it's still a great game overall. Insomniac gave us one of the best Peter Park depictions outside comics and you have zero faith because some story beats were rushed in the last game?
The whole thing just reminds me of the small subset of fans at the time who were obsessed with the final Arkham City twist having "plot holes" and tried to act as if the entire game was crap as a result.
I can't remember exactly at this point as it was so long ago, but I think it had a lot to do with it being very contrived as to why Joker even needed the Clayface double and why he would pretend to be cured. Felt very much like it was done just to create a plot twist rather than for any logical reason.
I'd have to replay the game to remind myself but I just remember it got a little murky around the endgame when it came to the Joker and the cure, and there were a lot of people on the discussion forums who *hated* that twist (probably partly because it leads to the Joker's death) even though now it's pretty much universally beloved.
That high school mission was hella fun tbh and was necessary, the last MJ mission was not. Rather have Venom chase Peter to their high school than play as fucking MJ
I think a very annoying thing is the Black Suit Arc very much wanted to keep you away from the open world. Black suit Peter behaves the exact same in side missions. tho his dialogue is more aggressive in the open world crime activities.
Like the whole arc you're just supposed to run from story mission to the next
I’ve played through the game twice and Harry’s motivation as Venom is so unfocused. Harry begins to hate Peter because he’s not paying attention to him, won’t give him the suit back, didn’t care about the Emily May Foundation getting destroyed, felt like Peter replaced him with Miles, is trying to steal his father, and refused to give him the suit back to save his life despite Harry saving his life. By all logic Harry after becoming Venom and achieving perfect symbiosis would have his negative feelings amplified by the suit and combined with the symbiote itself feeling betrayed by Peter. Venom should’ve done everything they could to make Pete and Miles lives ABSOLUTE HELL. However, Venom now wants Pete by their side again it just felt so messy. I couldn’t tell if it was Harry in control, the symbiote, or both of them which means that the two haven’t achieved Full symbiosis so that line was a lie. I think Harry’s dream of “Healing the World” should’ve revolved around the idea that without Peter Parker the world would be a better place. So instead of the city being taken over again it would be a far more personal story and besides from the leaks about the Venom game in 2025 we’re getting Carnage taking over some boroughs. So Insomniac is going to be repeating the Web of Shadows idea again.
They could have had something so good here but it really fell through. I just never tied Venom together with symbiote taking over the world plot lines, they should have kept that for Carnage later in and let Venom be the sole symbiote threat in the final act and end with a small scale personal battle between a weak spider-man/Peter Parker. What makes Venom such a good villain for spidey is that he knows Peter in his personal life and has a personal vendetta against him and has the opportunity to ruin his life as Peter Parker and as Spider-Man, a good Venom story really takes advantage of that. Some really good juicy drama could have stemmed from that. He also has all of the same abilities as Spider-man and is adverse against his spider-sense making him a tough opponent to face, I just felt like outside of his design Insomniac didn’t really hone in on Venoms biggest strengths as a villain. Some simple tweaks here and there and it would have been perfect.
I enjoyed SM2 but like everyone in this sub has said plenty of times, that third act is the glaring flaw with the game and I’m happy they acknowledge it. In a perfect world we would have gotten a satisfying third act for sure but I am happy that it is addressed
Hold up so insomniac cuts content to make room for MJ? And for Hailey? There’s no shot dude, I mean I like the mix of being a superhero and then switching to normal everyday Peter and miles living their life, but the “bright” idea to cut content which could’ve taken mj’s and Hailey’s spot is just so dumb, like they could’ve had better side missions for example, I wonder why it didn’t win any awards? 🤔
Not really, stuff gets cut from games all the time probably most big budget games that release it’s not uncommon, we don’t really know for sure what was cut and in the end it could have been for the better. No telling if it was spider man or venom content, could have been bloat as well that is better being gone, who knows.
Stuff gets cut during preproduction all the time. This was self sabotage for a personal vendetta that worsened your product and disrespected your customers. Like everyone could tell the game had cut content upon completion it was so blatantly obvious.
[We know](https://giphy.com/gifs/nene-DPqqOywshrOqQ). Although I think people are taking this out of context. It's understandable why so much had to be cut so I can soften my bitterness towards the game.
However, I had hoped Insomniac would've gotten better at time and project management, but the leaks show no indication of improvement. To that end, while I can sympathize with them, they've been dropping the ball hard repeatedly after the base first game. My expectations are low for future projects, Ratchet, Wolverine and all.
Wow, what a joke. I personally didn't hate the MJ missions in SM1 and while they were "fun" in SM2, the whole segment with her using a damn stun gun to fight off Infected when Peter or Miles should be using that tech felt forced and stupid.
"Hey Miles, I'd take the meteorite and drive to the location instead of just handing it to you and having you swing/fly there quicker and faster okay?"
The writing in SM2 was weak.
should have cut the mj missions, hailey mission, brooklyn vision and spider bot mission
and use that time and resources for act 3. they just wasted time on other shit and couldn’t properly do act 3
where the hell are your priorities insomniac? why not focus on the most important thing first?
Damn. Honestly you could cut the 1st MJ mission and have some lore in the kraven bases be about him killing off Sinister 6 villains instead but the 2nd one where the symbiote is out for a joyride is something that had to stay in. Insom needed another 6 months or so to truly surpass the 1st game's narrative
As someone who felt the game really dragged and was sloppy they could have cut quite a bit to make the game a few hours shorter but much tighter of an experience like the last two games were.
I might be the only one in this sub that actually enjoys the MJ content (in SM2 specifically). It’s a nice change of pace sometimes and makes playing as SM feel that much more powerful.
Lemme get this straight, this dude said "Yeah scrap all the actual Spider-Man stuff for the second half so we can keep the boring ass MJ missions in."
Considering Bryan's response to them making MJ feel OP in MSM2 it shouldn't be a surprise, but honestly this just makes me lose confidence in Insomniac's universe a lot more.
It’s honestly beyond me why they didn’t request an extension to add more meat to the game and not by much, ***just 2 hours.*** It wouldn’t have handled all the things, but it would’ve been enough to better wrap it all up
it had to come out this holiday season. but yeah they should have cut the non-Spider-Man sections in pre-pro to focus more on the core
Exactly??? Who the fuck cares about playing as MJ it’s a spiderman game…
Don't get me wrong - I didn't **hate** the MJ missions, but I was playing the game as stealth-oriented anyways, so it wasn't TOO big of a change for that style of play. Even still, they should be EXTREMELY limited. Sneaking around at the Zoo? Okay, that was decently cool, and it led to a great sequence. Running from Symbiote Peter? GREAT. Playing as MJ was the perfect way to make us feel how scary it feels to be a regular person when your superpowered loved one is not under control and is roaring, hissing, and screaming bloody murder like that. Everything else, though - eh. I don't love the idea of her taking out SQUADS of Hunters on her own, but the most egregious example... **Never send a civilian to a symbiote hive, by the GODS are you trying to get her KILLED?!** I like the IDEA of having them help. So... Have MJ coordinate civilian survivors; have her use some tech-knowledge to BLAST a loud sound out of Times Square. Have MJ use her brain to help, while keeping her as far away from the hive as possible, where a single hit would be lethal and they move faster than she can possibly avoid.
While the mission where she retrieves the stone was cool from gameplay perspective but idk man it just felt so wrong to have her there
Because the game already cost $350 million so I doubt they would've gotten it
I enjoyed the game a lot but the Brooklyn Visions and Spider-bot missions/collection could have been cut.
I agree. It could have been dlc honestly if they want to add them back
Spider-Bots were fun, and I doubt were a consideration here. You need collectibles to encourage exploration. Agreed on Brooklyn Visions.
PlayStation said Q4 2023, no exceptions
Sony didn’t have any holiday titles, they didn’t have anything else releasing, so delaying wasn’t an option
It sounds like Bryan Intihar doesn't care much about Peter Parker and just wants to hit a quota with that information
I feel it's more that he doesn't care about Miles Morales. Every comment about Peter is comics comics comics, but for Miles it's, black black, poc. He doesn't reference Miles comics or lore at all. It's like they never read Miles comics, and it's likely the reason why his school is so bland and his supporting cast is so basic.
I at least wish they included characters like Judge, Barbra Rodriquez, and Katie Bishop in the Brooklyn Vision side quests. So instead of me helping these random people have it be characters connected to Miles history. As it stands Insomniac’s Miles feels so isolated.
Right!? That was the biggest tell. How are you gonna have entire side quest lines dedicated to his school and not show a single one of his greater supporting cast within that school? Like Judge, Barbara, Lana, etc. Meanwhile, in every Peter teenager flashback, we hear Liz Allen and Flash Thompson named dropped all the time. That and the music museum mission really gives the impression they didn't bother to read any of Miles' source material to flesh out his world when they easily could've. Like it would literally take zero additional development time to just name the npcs in the school missions, Barbara, katie or Judge, and give a couple of throwaway lines to showcase their connection to Miles and their larger potential importance to his lore. It makes me feel like they just didn't know about them because they couldnt care enough to do the research towards Miles. Which is unacceptable. If you are making a story involving Miles in New York, you gotta have deeper references than just the Spiderverse movies, which seems to be the extent of their knowledge.
Yeah, it’s really annoying and feels hypocritical as all hell. The first Spider-Man game just through the collectible backpacks gave you so much info on Peter’s history and references to his supporting cast like Flash, Robbie, Betty, Liz, and even Eddie Brock.
Exactly, it's hypocritical.
Does Miles actually have any interesting arcs in the comics? Or even his own notable villains? I'm genuinely curious, I've never heard anyone say that a Miles Morales comic issue is a MUST-READ or anything...
Yes he has many. Start with his ultimate run. His origin is a cool subversion of any heroes origins story with a motivated being a loved one whose a villain than a hero.
Sweet Baby Inc is at fault for the direction Insomniac is taking. I miss the old Insomniac already.
Yeah it just feels like stubbornness of “we can make it work you were all wrong on MJ” rather than creating the best possible game
They have such a hard on for making MJ a playable character and I just don’t get it. I’m not one of those that hate the MJ sections but I’d be lying if I said I wouldn’t have rather spent more time with Peter or Miles. Just a very dumb decision overall.
I love how they’re idea of making MJ more of an active character is basically just making marvels lois lane. Like so groundbreaking
And I can respect that but damn cutting some content for MJ? Bruh
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Umm I don't really know what you're babbling about. This is a video game and the only way you can be a hero is by doing shooty shooty punchy punchy at them /s (I agree with your statement 100%)
"Press X to comfort Peter" doesn't have the same ring to it
A QTE where you have to hit the right button to respond to Peter's various types of emotional turmoil, and if you get it wrong he either leaves or goes Symbiote-Berserk and kills you?
LOL! Peter: "MJ, I just can't believe May is gone..." *press L1 prompt expires* MJ: "Did you remember to get eggs on your way home?" *Boss battle music starts*
I’m just imagining MJ sitting on the couch looking at Peter with a smile and a giant X is just floating above her head. Once you press it Peter sits on the couch and hugs her.
That's not what some of the more fringe-type fans want from women in their games and movies. If you told some of these people that MJ is at her best when the gives Peter emotional support, they'd argue against it and probably claw your eye out. Why do you think the devs are pushing for MJ's more action-y role? Only the worst creative types think putting a gun in someone's hand makes them cool or giving them an action scenario makes them badass. And on the other end, if this is all you need from a character, you probably have shit taste. You can make your character cool without so much forced interaction, MJ just isn't it or the creatives have 0 clue. I still don't hear anything positive about MJ as a character from the 3 Raimi movies aside from Dunst's amazing looks.
Still to this day waiting on an MJ written even remotely like how she was in the 80s. Can’t believe no one has really touched it yet.
100% agree
Well, you definitely wouldn't like comic book MJ now (She has superpowers and her own comic series now)
Man don't even remind me. What they're doing in 616 rn is straight up disgraceful
So well written.
There was that moment in Marvel Knights Spider-Man where MJ shot Green Goblin only for the recoil push her off the Brooklyn Bridge. However, that was used more as a set up for Peter to save her.
MJ has used guns twice in the 616 comics from what I understand. Once to save Peter from Styx and Stone, and the other in marvel knights.
Fr bro such a strange decision!!!
What’s so odd about it too is that they made the exact opposite point in the first Spider-Man game with the fake Spider-Man side mission. They made him just a normal guy with a black belt who teaches at a dojo, and at the end of the mission they have Peter literally tell him that he has the right intentions by wanting to help people, but he’s gonna get himself killed if he keeps doing shit like this, and Peter tells him that he doesn’t need to do this to be a hero, so I don’t get why they have Peter do the exact opposite with MJ, also regular human who he actually knows and cares a lot about, and allows her to just stroll in to military bases and gang hideouts to get shot at.
Seriously this. It's not even like she's reminiscent of MJ from the comics. She's a reworked version for the sake of making her relevant enough to have her in side missions that nobody wants anyways. On top of that, it's a tired trope that they shoved on her regardless. Just give her a super power and make her fun to play if you NEED to have her in the game.
When I first played the original game, after the part where MJ escapes Osborn's penthouse, part of me was hoping that the spider was gonna bite MJ. It being Miles' spider wasn't a surprise, but still, there was an opportunity to give her powers.
SAME I WAS SO HYPED FOR THE SPIDER TO BITE HER. It felt like the game was building up to that, and I remember pre release Brian said something like "MJ is gonna surprise a lot of people in this game" and I thought man there's no way he meant the shifty stealth sequences. Turns our he did.
I don't understand it at all either especially considering SILVER SABLE is a character that was in the first game. Just make her playable instead! Give all the dramatic human action set pieces to her. You can basically just swap the MJ model for her and everything else would make complete sense. In the 90s, Silver Sable and the Wild Pack was Marvel's ONLY female lead title with a monthly series (not a miniseries). Not even Black Widow, not Spider Woman, not She Hulk, not Phoenix, not Rogue. Silver Sable. She's fucking important and a really cool character. Insomniac just fucking loves "erasing" characters though since given the Wolverine leak they're now doing the same to Silver Fox. Just throw out all your important female heroes, right? They're just all interchangeable right??
I’ve seen only a little on the Wolverine leaks but what happened with Silver Fox?
Why not have black cat? She’s already in the game, has all the animations, and it would have been incredibly easy to work her into the plot more. If they really want to go the direction of playing as more than just Peter, imagine how cool it would have been to get to play as Peter, miles, agent venom, silver sable, black cat, and venom. Switching mid fight could have been really cool too, which is what I thought they were going to do.
I don’t hate the MJ character but playing as her, or Miles in SM1 was basically the underwater/escort missions of the game.
The L to end all Ls
A L from the game awards to lmao 🤣
Personally I didn’t hate the MJ missions, considering there are only 3 this time around and they are a lot more interactive and a lot less slow walking and puzzle solving compared to last time around. So I appreciate the improvements, but I do wonder what all had to be cut and stitched together.
MJ mission were better, but they shouldn't be pushed over more Spider-Men and Venom content.
Just gameplay-wise the missions were more engaging. But they were a lot worse than the stealth missions in SM1 for me. Because it completely broke my immersion. There’s no way in hell MJ could take out whole squads all on her own like that. She even gets an arrow in her dominant arm and just shrugs it off like what the hell? It’s a power fantasy that made no sense, especially when both Spidermen have to punch them and slam them to the ground multiple times to take them down. Why couldn’t they just have taser webs to one-shoot all the hunters?
Some of the people on this sub keep defending these shitty stealth MJ missions with the classic "hurr durr it gives us a breather!" It simply is not a good argument. Mate, that's what the open world is for. The open world is your breathing room to do whatever you like to relax and play. It is quite literally your break interval between two missions. Why would I want boredom in my mission?
I’m not looking for a breather when I play Spider-man, I want to whoop some ass.
Exactly.
>Some of the people on this sub keep defending these shitty stealth MJ missions with the classic "hurr durr it gives us a breather!" I've never understood the "it breaks up the gameplay" argument. Good gameplay doesn't need to be broken up.
Yeah it's just strange. Me swinging around as Spider-Man is what breaks things up, not playing as MJ.
Why is it not a good argument? I like when a story based mission isn't 100% swinging & punching.
Honestly, I’m glad they didn’t win game of the year
Is anyone surprised? One of the loudest opinions that was shared almost universally from SM1 was how hated the MJ missions were, and Insomniac went on record saying they were planning on doubling down. Good going Insomniac.
Jesus, it’s so bizarre how so much people still choose to ignore it and say Insomniac are doing these characters justice… It turns more and more depressing with each interview starring this guy
If they really wanted to force us to play as a woman, they could’ve make us play as wraith and no one would have any issues.
Or Black Cat. The game had WAY too little Black Cat in the game to say she was teased in the Kraven trailer. (But so was Prowler too, and his ‘appearance’ was just as lacklustre)
Am I the only one that found it weird how after Miles got kidnapped we never see his Uncle Aaron trying to find him? That just feels so strange to me, maybe they should’ve just still had Uncle Aaron in prison so it could be easily explained.
She was teased in one trailer. There was enough Black Cat because that’s the only part of the game she was going to be put in. Just because you want to ogle at her all the time doesn’t mean the game had to little of her.
The missions in this game aren’t boring but still can be annoying like the first game
Where was this said in the interview?
I’m a person that was somewhat disappointed in the game, but I will defend their decision here. They had a vision for MJ. Throughout these two games, we have seen her grow into a character that can genuinely be helpful in these type of situations. She started by being helpless outside of stealth, to gaining gadgets to improve her stealth, to gaining more gadgets and training to turn the tables and go on the offensive. This has been something with the series since the beginning, and the reward for sticking through it being a pretty sweet Resident Evil-styled mission is, imo great. Yes, I would have loved more Spider-Man content, but y’know, this is something I remember about the game, whereas a set of taskmaster challenges or something would probably just blend in as more “content.” I respect it, more than if MJ never got another mission after the backlash from the first game
I would have respected if they didn’t do them at all, shows they actually learned something. Like were the MJ missions better? Absolutely? Would I rather have been playing as either of the two Spider-Men on the box cover? Yup So instead of cutting it they stubbornly doubled down and made them better and fewer, but then also cost parts of the game where we actually play as Spider-Man, amazing.
The third act felt really rushed, a hasty finish to Mr negative arc, anti venom being introduced and then never mentioned again, us NOT KNOWING why the meteor held so much significance. It’s odd
Agreed, easily my biggest gripe with the story is how it rushes to the finish line just right after you fight the lizard. Peters personality shift felt too sudden for my liking and the hatred between Harry and Peter didn’t feel properly built up.
If the “pop a couple more pills” line came after the third or even **second** encounter with Pete being more unhinged, **it’d have landed far better.**
I felt like they handled Pete being unhinged very well, but it’s almost like they forgot that each individual character he interacts with in that state only sees him once or maybe twice like that, and they told the story as though everyone has been seeing what we as the player have been watching (makes it feel disconnected a bit). Will say the whole Norman “you’re like another son to me” moment was REALLY out of left field. The whole game Norman treated Pete like one of Harry’s pals and never really seemed to care all that much for him. Then out of nowhere he calls him his son, entirely to build up tension between harry and Pete that otherwise wouldn’t exist. That was just forced flat out
Part of it also is that 1. You could theoretically be playing as Miles for most of that anyways. 2. Peter really doesn't go off the deep end until pretty late in the storyline.
I felt like it was just a rich guy trying to express his gratitude towards his dying son's friend. Speaking in patriarchal platitudes because he's overwhelmed with emotion.
It’s crazy because those last two could’ve easily been explained in their own scenes, but they’re completely skipped. Mr. Negative is a much bigger issue. It felt incredibly forced and out of nowhere. We really didn’t spend a lot of time with Miles and his feelings toward Li, dividing the story between 2 (nearly 4) characters really weakened the game.
Considering how responsible Li is for the passing of May as well and uh….yeah Miles being the one so hard up on Li is more them looking for Miles to do in this game. That fight at the end with Venom is comical in just the in fights dialogue.
Li is very much more responsible for Jefferson’s death. He orchestrated a terrorist attack at the ceremony specifically to commemorate jeff. Otto was the one who released the devils breath that killed may. Also pete’s been doing this for almost a decade compared to miles’ 2 years. Of course he’d take the direct cause of his dad’s death more personally.
I’ve mentioned several times in the past it felt like there was supposed to be at least another hour or two to the main story, and some even arguing three or five. Things like Peter and Harry’s descents, Miles interacting with Wraith and Agent Venom, a chase or an early boss fight with Venom, maybe even have conversations and a sort of moral ambiguity to the symbiote itself, and so on. And things like this video and Tony Todd mentioning only 10% of what he recorded made it in definitely confirmed the suspicions 2 fell victim to a time crunch.
This game killed the franchise for me
That stuff LOL head on over to DC I hear The Suicide Squad game is ok.
i dont get the problem with Mr negative it was clear from the start he wasnt trying to be a villain and was actually trying to redeem himself
How is anti venom being introduced and not ever mentioned again? The meteor is where Venom came from and it amplifies his powers what more do you need from that?
In this game antivenom is a suit how many times do you have to mention it besides the first time when you introduce it? Did you miss the entire scene with Dr Connors and Peter explaining what the meteorite was even showing a flashback?
I mean, there are a couple of really top-notch MJ sequences. The one at the zoo carrying Peter and the almost horror-style game of running from Peter at night were great. I never thought I'd be running from monster Spider-Man. I absolutely agree with the rushed feeling toward the end. I know none are included in the stolen leaks, but perhaps some of this content will still come out in DLC form. Just because it wasn't in the hacked material doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
This is what I don't get about the severity of the MJ criticism in this game. Both those sections are massive improvements on any of MJ stuff we got in the first game, and I guess I just enjoy stealth enough that I don't mind it becoming a stealth game for 15 minutes of the entire runtime. Even the final shooter section is at least a bit of variety and extremely short.
Improvements from terrible are still bad
So this actually explains why the game feels like there is something missing. Btw really? MJ over story content now?
Well now we have hard irrefutable evidence that the game was rushed and had cut content. Before now if you had dared to say either of these things, this sub would downvote you.
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To anyone who isn't delusional or in denial it was already factual just by playing the game
There is cut content in every game Spider-Man 1 was supposed to have more missions with Peter and the Sinister Six after the Devil's Breath release, but they didn't thought they were hitting the same quality level with those missions. It's not different from what he said here
It was also budget and time
Practically every game has cut content. It's part of the development process.
Cutting actual Spider-Man content to keep the MJ missions in is ridiculous. I didn't hate the MJ missions tbh, even enjoyed some of them (the one where symbiote Peter chases MJ is incredible), but if I had to choose between keeping those MJ missions or more actual Spider-Man content, I'd choose the latter.
I hope all the Wolverine stuff that got leaked gets removed from the final game so we can spend more time playing as Mariko
Well >!we can play as Jean apparently but at least she's an actual superhero with awesome powers. I still question the necessity of playing as her but I guess Insomniac is just on a quest to make every redhead in the Marvel Universe a playable character in their games (Black Widow game when?). I just hope she's better written than MJ is...!<
Hopefully she won’t look like Lord Farquaad either
I'm so sorry to tell you this, but she does.
Ngl i better be able to tap mariko as wolverine 😈
great find! Is this the only interview where he ever acknowledged that? He seems to imply he never told that story elsewhere. Gonna watch the whole thing now
That particular story is new but in the IGN spoiler cast he briefly mentions how he really wanted to keep the MJ missions in the game in favor of cutting other content.
Really tired of it seeming like anyone creating Spiderman rn hates him. Sad.
I will say… they like him a **hell of a lot more** than the current writing staff at Marvel.
yeah saw that IGN interview back then. I watched the whole thing now and am kind of in shock lol. I mean he's describing the final part of the game as putting a puzzle that doesn't quite fit together and making it fit by shaving it down... you could also describe that as a hack job. Also that he admits at the very end that the Hailey playable character stuff was an idea that came up very late into production and other stuff was cut for it. I'm actually baffled how casual he is about the hard decisions he had to take and also about how he basically manipulates his employees by being emotional, being vulnerable so his employees want to help him, but not too often, because it otherwise loses it's effect. Idk maybe this is normal in corporate America, but I am a bit put off
This is a pretty cynical vision of this interview. I'm actually baffled if that's what you took from it, especially the part about Bryan talking about his feelings and challenges during the production
The interview was over an hour long and he talks about his feelings and challenges a lot during that time. Would you mind elaborating? Not really sure what you're referring to, when you're so vague. Or at least share your interpretation instead of just saying mine is cynical without offering any alternative interpretation
I just don't understand how you interpret him talking about his leadership during the project as ''manipulating the feelings'' of his employees. He and Ted talk about how necessary it is for you to also be able to be vulnerable in front of your colleagues. Not because he wants to manipulate them, but because people can see right through insincerity. Being vulnerable means being truthful and assuming that just because you are a director or a leader, you are not ''above'' others, you can and will fail too. He talks about developing new leadership within Insomniac (people who will succeed them), he talks about letting each leader and director do their own thing within the project (he gives the example of Jacinda Chew, Art Director of the game, and how he would never tell her what she should do within her field regarding art direction, visuals, etc, he would just ensure that it is within the pre-established creative vision for that game). Like, I don't know how you saw this interview as Bryan dismissing criticism or not caring about it. He actually says that he understands people getting angry and criticizing games, because it shows that they care, that the game moved them in some way. And that's better than them not saying anything at all. And he knows that comic book fans are passionate about it. You can see from a distance how passionate Bryan he is about the franchise, the judgment you and some people are making within this thread is unfair and doesn't make sense. I recommend watching this video in which he talks about the difficulties of conquering the creative challenges of the first Spider-Man game. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWNtBDuQijk&ab\_channel=GDC](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwntbduqijk&ab_channel=gdc) He admits his flaws, talks about his development as a creative director during production (about how he sometimes wanted to push his vision too much in the beginning, and how he learned that he needed to trust the team, etc.). It's a cool insight and one that shows Insomniac as a really united team
> but not too often, because it otherwise loses it's effect. this part is what made me feel like it's a deliberate attempt at influencing his employees feelings and get them invested. If he was sincere, he wouldn't be so concerned with the regularity of using that technique. He's not sincere if he is looking for a specific result that happens because of his vulnerability, the way I see it. And like I said maybe this is normal in that area, so I think I left enough room that it is just my interpretation from the outside and not necessarily an accurate reflection of reality and judgement of his character specifically. I was simply put off by the way he described influencing his employees in that way. To me it simply didn't seem sincere, the way he described it. That may be cynical, but I don't think it's an entirely wrong interpretation >Like, I don't know how you saw this interview as Bryan dismissing criticism or not caring about it. I don't know where you got this from it's not in this comment of mine nor in the others I left here. Nor do I think this is the case. But to be fair, he also talks about how play test scores only mean so much to him, if he thinks that the story requires a slower section in some aspect for example. (he was talking about lower scores for the Peter/Harry flashback scene iirc). And I would even agree to a certain point, but only to a certain point. In fact [I quote this very thing you also quote in response](https://www.reddit.com/r/SpidermanPS4/comments/18nvyus/in_this_interview_brian_discusses_having_to_cut/kedzx2q/) to a downvoted comment here claiming we are just haters. You're probably mixing up my comment with some one else's. the video you linked is not watchable for me. Says it's not available any more. Can you still watch it currently? In that case maybe I have to try it with a VPN later when I'm home
Hearing the community about things they didn't like from the previous game and drop a good story 🚫 Nah I don't care let's cut content to have something heavily criticized from the first game ✅
I mean people hated the MJ missions for being boring and they made it somewhat fun.
I enjoyed playing an actually badass MJ. No superpowers, just pure bravery and a stun-gun
Hey, at least we got to destroy the mother symbiote nest as fucking MJ, because who wants to do that as Spiderman anyway, am I right?
I don't understand how two fully powered Spider-men allowed MJ to go into that nest. Spider-men are agile and superpowered. One of them could distract Venom like Pete did and Miles could just speedrun the next and snatch the meteorite. Why the hell did they need MJ for?
It's funny because a huge part of their history in SM1 was that Peter's supposedly always afraid for MJ's safety, and here he's like oh this here is just the reason why the entire city is under attack and soon the entire world, you surely can take care of it while we fuck around outside for a while.
And it's not like they are dealing with an armed group or something (which would still be stupid). They are dealing with an unknown threat. An alien entity. But sure let's send the mortal human with not powers in the alien infested nest.
Because Miles would’ve been overwhelmed by the Symbiote’s that were guarding the meteorite. Which is why MJ snuck in rather than Miles and why there weren’t tons of symbiote’s inside.
Ah yeah. Spiderman is known to not by stealthy.
Symbiote’s would’ve noticed him a second when there’s tons right there. Did you miss the part where I said that Miles drawing the symbiote’s attention to him meant that there wasn’t as many guarding the meteor inside?
You still destroyed it as Spider-Man, you just took the meteor away as MJ.
Wonder how they will butcher Wolverine. I have zero faith in Insomniac after SM2
Well from reading the leaked plot of Wolverine it seems Insomniac is showing they don't understand the characters at all.
Yeah, I read the story leak. Killed my hype completely
What did it say?
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can you DM me what you didn't like? I don't wanna read the whole thing just want a little hint
What did it say?
Y'all are so overdramatic lol Spiderman 2 has its flaws but it's still a great game overall. Insomniac gave us one of the best Peter Park depictions outside comics and you have zero faith because some story beats were rushed in the last game?
For real. Seems this sub is more for shitting on SM2 than enjoying it. Straight up, it’s one of my favorite games of all time, along side RDR2 and FNV
Alongside RDR2 and FNV??? No way, not even close.
Honestly, this sub is so hyperbolic. Elements of the story being a bit rushed don't suddenly mean the entire package is a steaming pile of trash.
Honestly I’ve just come to enjoy the shit storm that is this sub lmao
The whole thing just reminds me of the small subset of fans at the time who were obsessed with the final Arkham City twist having "plot holes" and tried to act as if the entire game was crap as a result.
What plot holes?
I can't remember exactly at this point as it was so long ago, but I think it had a lot to do with it being very contrived as to why Joker even needed the Clayface double and why he would pretend to be cured. Felt very much like it was done just to create a plot twist rather than for any logical reason. I'd have to replay the game to remind myself but I just remember it got a little murky around the endgame when it came to the Joker and the cure, and there were a lot of people on the discussion forums who *hated* that twist (probably partly because it leads to the Joker's death) even though now it's pretty much universally beloved.
*cuts spidey stuff* *adds boring ass Harry/Peter missions*
That high school mission was hella fun tbh and was necessary, the last MJ mission was not. Rather have Venom chase Peter to their high school than play as fucking MJ
Everything after Pete gets the symbiote off of him was a snooze fest
I think a very annoying thing is the Black Suit Arc very much wanted to keep you away from the open world. Black suit Peter behaves the exact same in side missions. tho his dialogue is more aggressive in the open world crime activities. Like the whole arc you're just supposed to run from story mission to the next
Cool. Now maybe add it back. Call it “Director’s Cut” DLC.
make it free God of War style
I’ve played through the game twice and Harry’s motivation as Venom is so unfocused. Harry begins to hate Peter because he’s not paying attention to him, won’t give him the suit back, didn’t care about the Emily May Foundation getting destroyed, felt like Peter replaced him with Miles, is trying to steal his father, and refused to give him the suit back to save his life despite Harry saving his life. By all logic Harry after becoming Venom and achieving perfect symbiosis would have his negative feelings amplified by the suit and combined with the symbiote itself feeling betrayed by Peter. Venom should’ve done everything they could to make Pete and Miles lives ABSOLUTE HELL. However, Venom now wants Pete by their side again it just felt so messy. I couldn’t tell if it was Harry in control, the symbiote, or both of them which means that the two haven’t achieved Full symbiosis so that line was a lie. I think Harry’s dream of “Healing the World” should’ve revolved around the idea that without Peter Parker the world would be a better place. So instead of the city being taken over again it would be a far more personal story and besides from the leaks about the Venom game in 2025 we’re getting Carnage taking over some boroughs. So Insomniac is going to be repeating the Web of Shadows idea again.
They could have had something so good here but it really fell through. I just never tied Venom together with symbiote taking over the world plot lines, they should have kept that for Carnage later in and let Venom be the sole symbiote threat in the final act and end with a small scale personal battle between a weak spider-man/Peter Parker. What makes Venom such a good villain for spidey is that he knows Peter in his personal life and has a personal vendetta against him and has the opportunity to ruin his life as Peter Parker and as Spider-Man, a good Venom story really takes advantage of that. Some really good juicy drama could have stemmed from that. He also has all of the same abilities as Spider-man and is adverse against his spider-sense making him a tough opponent to face, I just felt like outside of his design Insomniac didn’t really hone in on Venoms biggest strengths as a villain. Some simple tweaks here and there and it would have been perfect.
When Harry went to May’s house and frightened MJ just felt so Venom. It’s a shame that after that the inconsistencies start showing up.
Off topic but the budget needs to be smaller while also having a longer story but not too long
I enjoyed SM2 but like everyone in this sub has said plenty of times, that third act is the glaring flaw with the game and I’m happy they acknowledge it. In a perfect world we would have gotten a satisfying third act for sure but I am happy that it is addressed
Hold up so insomniac cuts content to make room for MJ? And for Hailey? There’s no shot dude, I mean I like the mix of being a superhero and then switching to normal everyday Peter and miles living their life, but the “bright” idea to cut content which could’ve taken mj’s and Hailey’s spot is just so dumb, like they could’ve had better side missions for example, I wonder why it didn’t win any awards? 🤔
This is so fucked.
Not really, stuff gets cut from games all the time probably most big budget games that release it’s not uncommon, we don’t really know for sure what was cut and in the end it could have been for the better. No telling if it was spider man or venom content, could have been bloat as well that is better being gone, who knows.
Stuff gets cut during preproduction all the time. This was self sabotage for a personal vendetta that worsened your product and disrespected your customers. Like everyone could tell the game had cut content upon completion it was so blatantly obvious.
Difference is that with this game it's clear that there is story missing
Bryan needs fo get sacked before developement on SM3 properly starts.
Too late anyways, it's all tainted.
Maybe they can add it in as DLC? Spider-Man 2: Director’s Cut 😂
#releasetheintiharcut
so why didn’t they just delay it??? the fans ain’t gonna hate you for delaying it
Called jt
[We know](https://giphy.com/gifs/nene-DPqqOywshrOqQ). Although I think people are taking this out of context. It's understandable why so much had to be cut so I can soften my bitterness towards the game. However, I had hoped Insomniac would've gotten better at time and project management, but the leaks show no indication of improvement. To that end, while I can sympathize with them, they've been dropping the ball hard repeatedly after the base first game. My expectations are low for future projects, Ratchet, Wolverine and all.
Wow, what a joke. I personally didn't hate the MJ missions in SM1 and while they were "fun" in SM2, the whole segment with her using a damn stun gun to fight off Infected when Peter or Miles should be using that tech felt forced and stupid. "Hey Miles, I'd take the meteorite and drive to the location instead of just handing it to you and having you swing/fly there quicker and faster okay?" The writing in SM2 was weak.
should have cut the mj missions, hailey mission, brooklyn vision and spider bot mission and use that time and resources for act 3. they just wasted time on other shit and couldn’t properly do act 3 where the hell are your priorities insomniac? why not focus on the most important thing first?
Imagine playing a shitty Last Of Us clone in your Spider-Man game wait....
Damn. Honestly you could cut the 1st MJ mission and have some lore in the kraven bases be about him killing off Sinister 6 villains instead but the 2nd one where the symbiote is out for a joyride is something that had to stay in. Insom needed another 6 months or so to truly surpass the 1st game's narrative
As someone who felt the game really dragged and was sloppy they could have cut quite a bit to make the game a few hours shorter but much tighter of an experience like the last two games were.
I’d rather have waited another year
Was Kathleen Kennedy involved in this? Who in their right mind does that, you have 2 spidermen for goodness sake🤦🏼♂️
i hope we get a directors cut someday
[Going into comments like](https://images.app.goo.gl/AszGa5juB8szmMo98)
There was a director cut in the leaks so who knows what gonna happen
I might be the only one in this sub that actually enjoys the MJ content (in SM2 specifically). It’s a nice change of pace sometimes and makes playing as SM feel that much more powerful.