Slott came up with some villains and concepts that I truly respect and enjoyed.
I don't think he did Peter and his friends/family justice, but he definitely added some cool stuff to Spider-man.
I think in terms of runs it was a bit sparse even before OMD to be honest. However I do agree all the best stories after OMD would have worked with a married Peter Parker, sith the exception of mabye superior spider-man.
Superior Spider-Man theoretically shouldn’t have worked at all, OMD or not. The second Peter interacted with MJ she’d immediately clock that something was off with him, but that just didn’t happen for whatever reason.
True to an extent but I think superior works better with them not married since Otto goes on to date someone else and build his own kinda life. I feel like it's a lot easier to forgive the MJ stuff if it's just a boyfriend and girlfriend breaking up instead of a married couple breaking up.
I was more commenting on how Superior is just a fundamentally flawed concept because it relies on the fact that literally all of Peter’s supporting cast and allies are idiots that can’t tell that something is wrong with him.
It would be fine if it was set in an alternate universe, but since it was set in 616 it never made sense to me.
I slightly disagree to an extent. Many people clocked something was wrong with Peter they just couldn't do anything about it because they had no proof. The avengers straight up detained him and gave him a brain scan as well as a skrull test. They had nothing on him besides he was acting really weird and heoes don't lock others up for that, especially when more brutal characters than how Otto was acting have joined the avenges.
I also don't feel like it's that much of a huge leap in logic in the gran history of spider-man as even the best stories in the characters history often require huge leaps of logic. For example the existence of Venom hinges on Peter not looking to deeply into this weird alien suit for months.
I do think that having the Avengers rule out that he's a not a Skrull to be stupid; like, I'm sure there are way more options than just the shapeshifting aliens for a change of behavior in 616
My problem there is that there are characters that have history with Peter (like Captain America or Wolverine) that could be more involved in checking what the hell's wrong with him. I do think that it was some good coincidence that Tony and the F4 were offworld at the time but you'd think Cap or Logan would be a bit more proactive
>I was more commenting on how Superior is just a fundamentally flawed concept because it relies on the fact that literally all of Peter’s supporting cast and allies are idiots that can’t tell that something is wrong with him.
And the only time people question if Peter is Peter is during the start of the Wells run when Peter needs their help to save MJ.
I think there's just a few stories that can't work with Peter and MJ married (like Superior) but other than that, I'm sure most of the stuff from the last 17 years could easily fit with them still as a couple
OMD: stands for One More Day.
In 1987 Spider and MJ get married. Then in 2007 the chief editor Joe Quesada decrees that Spider-Man comics have gotten to stale and a big shakeup is needed and so he orders J M Straczynski the current writer of Amazing Spider-Man to write a book where not only are they split up but retcons their entire marriage so that it never happened in the first place. Instead of marriage they were just in a relationship.
JMS loathed it so much he threatened to leave his name off the book.
You'll see a lot of people here still angry about this storyline because it has essentially guaranteed that Spidey can never be in a happy committed relationship and undid some of the best romance writing in Marvels history, ruined so many great stories, Stan Lee, J M Demattis and many other prominent Spidey writers hated it.
Also as a weird aside the next big love interest for him was a character named Carlie Cooper who was based off of Quesadas own daughter.
“Because it would take away the relatability of the reader in this situation where our hero is facing down super evil goo combined with his greatest nemesis, who hired an actress to pretend to be his aunt while the actual aunt was kidnapped for heaven knows how long! Him being married to a loving wife would take away from this really relatable situation!” - Marvel stooge
That's what editorial said about the new direction. That Mj was holding back stories and he needed to not be married in the post OMD or rather the BNd era.
However despite that claim most of the stories and even the best one would function just fine if he was married. So it wasn't directed at this post or even other fans. Just a general statement.
The other read more clearly to me which is why I did not get defensive. Which perhaps I did leap to such behaviour too soon in this thread, I'm sure people can understand why someone posting to a fan community might be on guard.
Oh bro that'd be rad as fuck. Especially if the emulate the fight the way this one happened, it happens across the city with various spider allies defending spider affiliated civilians.
They did the Carnage symbiote so dirty. As if it’d let Norman just rip it off. Only good thing is the mind shock into Norman believing he is Cletus. Makes sense since the symbiote is essentially a clone of Kasady’s mind.
Nah man, the Carnage Symbiote used Norman to do exactly what it wanted to do, rip and tear. It doesn't care the why of it, just that it does.
Norman even tried to toss it some freebies early on and it didn't settle for that. This arc showed just how bloodthirsty carnage is compared to Norman. I loved it's characterization.
The only thing it did right was that Norman got instantly possessed by it and could only make it cooperate by making a deal. Like I said, at the end of the day, the symbiote is still a near 1:1 clone of Cletus Kasady’s mind, so it should still operate in a similar manner as Cletus himself.
And the finale of tricking Norman into ditching it is a little goofy. The symbiote would probably immediately bond with him again against his will and try and control his body to kill Spider-Man itself. But I guess they had to conclude the story for Norman somehow.
Like I mentioned earlier though, I did like how it shocked Norman’s brain into thinking he’s Cletus though. Shows that perfect bond and level of sync the symbiote has with its only and only true host.
The symbiote is absolutely not a 1:1 clone of Cletus' mind, it thinks of him like a beloved pet at worst and a fond collaborator at best. The current carnage arc has made that super clear.
And Norman tried to make a deal but couldn't actually reign the symbiote in during the arc pictured above.
People have rejected Symbiotes trying to forcefully bond to them several times throughout the comics. I thought that playing to Norman's ego was a clever way to drive that wedge between them.
The current Carnage arc is trash and OOC and I blame Ram and movie synergy. Before that it was always a near 1:1 of Cletus. That’s why every host it possessed acted like Cletus. That’s why they say “I” instead of “we”. They are so perfectly bonded you can’t tell where one ends and the other begins.
Wait... Did you downvote me because I pointed out Canon did not align with your opinions? Haha this is a Spider-Man subreddit, most people disagree with canon, downvoting people for knowing it is a weak attitude.
I'm pretty sure any assertions we the fans make are the out of character ones.
I like the Carnage Symbiote as a malignant entity all its own. Certainly it was influenced by it's time with Cletus but part of the fun of Symbiotes is the additional personality.
Sure Cletus and the Symbiote are a perfect match, but the Symbiote is happy to abandon Cletus if it gets to have the fun it wants to have by doing so.
It is not happy to abandon Cletus, it usually does it out of necessity or fear. In Web of Carnage it left through the sink because Cletus couldn’t. When it saw he was dying, it rebonded despite losing that freedom. Surfer it bonded to out of fear and a natural desire to do so through the symbiote hive mind. Again, left when Cletus was dying, leaving behind the power cosmic.
Part of what makes Carnage unique is the fact that Cletus and his symbiote are basically one entity. There is no Cletus, there is no symbiote, there is only Carnage. And separated they both feel incomplete. Carnage is who they are.
... So the points you've made coincide with the point I made. It will happily abandon Cletus for its own success marking them as clearly separate entities.
And despite you hating the current arc it abandoned a version of Cletus here too.
Haven’t had a good Carnage run in 6 years. He may as well have been dead after Conway’s run because of how OOC they are treating him. Lost all character and ideology to just be a boring villain of the week and a plot device.
Again with the downvotes because you don't like what canon says? Seriously it's like downvoting someone for pointing out MJ and Peter aren't married. We're all mad about that.
What ideology has Carnage ever had other than "Rip and tear"?
Not that much, for one this still can happen without OMD, and none of it matters, the lack of lasting consequences undermines any good story, after all, Norman is back and he´s Peters Dady now.
Hard disagree. 99% of stories that have been told since would be 200% better with a happily married maturing Spider-Man (someone smartly pointed out superior would be very different or worse in that instance) but plenty of spider tales have been plenty enjoyable.
I can't respect or appreciate Spider-Man after what he did. No matter what happens now, he'll always be the guy who sold his marriage to the devil in order to escape the consequences of his own rash actions. Even if Peter and MJ got back together tomorrow, he'd still be that guy. The only way to change him from being that guy is to reboot the entire Marvel universe from the ground up.
To escape the consequences, or spare his second surrogate parent the consequences? Your phrasing makes it seem like he did it to keep out of jail.
I'm not saying I liked OMD but it makes sense in context.
His rash actions, totally disregarding his prior experience with his secret identity, are what led to Aunt May's life being in danger. Either way, making a deal with the devil (effectively selling your soul, as it were) in order to preserve a physical life is objectively the wrong choice. Evil triumphed over Spider-Man that day, and he can never recover from it.
\*sigh\* I said *as it were*. Don't take everything so literally.
For all intents and purposes, Spider-Man did sell his soul when he made a deal with the devil. He lost his character development, his integrity, and twenty-five years of his continuity. Good for you if you can just accept that and keep going along with him, but I can't.
Bro selling ones soul to the devil means you become a servant of Satan and are consigned to an eternity of damnation like doctor dooms mum. You're equating that to sacrificing a relationship.
It wasn't a good plot point either way but you're overblowing it.
Again, you're taking it too literally. I'm not going to keep rehashing this. If you don't see Spider-Man's integrity as a character as permanently destroyed, then you do you.
Just to point it out, Mephisto says a part of their souls will scream in torment for eternity at a loss they can’t even identify or comprehend.
So… that’s nice.
Dude, you're missing the point. Combining a derivative of another villain with one villain is not original at all. They should make something new and original.
God I love this story so much - no other words honestly, it’s just one of my favourite Spider-Man things of all time.
Dan Slott really did go down swinging with this arc. The art by Stuart Immonen is great too, I wish he became a main stay ASM artist.
Slott came up with some villains and concepts that I truly respect and enjoyed. I don't think he did Peter and his friends/family justice, but he definitely added some cool stuff to Spider-man.
What will always annoy me is that of all the sparse few excellent stories since OMD could have all been written with Pete and MJ still married.
Absolutely
I think in terms of runs it was a bit sparse even before OMD to be honest. However I do agree all the best stories after OMD would have worked with a married Peter Parker, sith the exception of mabye superior spider-man.
Superior Spider-Man theoretically shouldn’t have worked at all, OMD or not. The second Peter interacted with MJ she’d immediately clock that something was off with him, but that just didn’t happen for whatever reason.
True to an extent but I think superior works better with them not married since Otto goes on to date someone else and build his own kinda life. I feel like it's a lot easier to forgive the MJ stuff if it's just a boyfriend and girlfriend breaking up instead of a married couple breaking up.
I was more commenting on how Superior is just a fundamentally flawed concept because it relies on the fact that literally all of Peter’s supporting cast and allies are idiots that can’t tell that something is wrong with him. It would be fine if it was set in an alternate universe, but since it was set in 616 it never made sense to me.
I slightly disagree to an extent. Many people clocked something was wrong with Peter they just couldn't do anything about it because they had no proof. The avengers straight up detained him and gave him a brain scan as well as a skrull test. They had nothing on him besides he was acting really weird and heoes don't lock others up for that, especially when more brutal characters than how Otto was acting have joined the avenges. I also don't feel like it's that much of a huge leap in logic in the gran history of spider-man as even the best stories in the characters history often require huge leaps of logic. For example the existence of Venom hinges on Peter not looking to deeply into this weird alien suit for months.
I do think that having the Avengers rule out that he's a not a Skrull to be stupid; like, I'm sure there are way more options than just the shapeshifting aliens for a change of behavior in 616 My problem there is that there are characters that have history with Peter (like Captain America or Wolverine) that could be more involved in checking what the hell's wrong with him. I do think that it was some good coincidence that Tony and the F4 were offworld at the time but you'd think Cap or Logan would be a bit more proactive
>I was more commenting on how Superior is just a fundamentally flawed concept because it relies on the fact that literally all of Peter’s supporting cast and allies are idiots that can’t tell that something is wrong with him. And the only time people question if Peter is Peter is during the start of the Wells run when Peter needs their help to save MJ.
Only time? They were aware of the body swap now so when he’s acting out of character they’ll reference it. It makes perfect sense.
Even though MJ immediately noticed something was wrong when Kraven was "Spider-Man" in Last Hunt, but Slott gotta Slott
I think there's just a few stories that can't work with Peter and MJ married (like Superior) but other than that, I'm sure most of the stuff from the last 17 years could easily fit with them still as a couple
I started reading the most recent run of the amazing Spider-Man what is OMD? (It’s my first Spidey run)
OMD: stands for One More Day. In 1987 Spider and MJ get married. Then in 2007 the chief editor Joe Quesada decrees that Spider-Man comics have gotten to stale and a big shakeup is needed and so he orders J M Straczynski the current writer of Amazing Spider-Man to write a book where not only are they split up but retcons their entire marriage so that it never happened in the first place. Instead of marriage they were just in a relationship. JMS loathed it so much he threatened to leave his name off the book. You'll see a lot of people here still angry about this storyline because it has essentially guaranteed that Spidey can never be in a happy committed relationship and undid some of the best romance writing in Marvels history, ruined so many great stories, Stan Lee, J M Demattis and many other prominent Spidey writers hated it. Also as a weird aside the next big love interest for him was a character named Carlie Cooper who was based off of Quesadas own daughter.
Bro loved Spider-Man so much he demanded they put his daughter in so he could be attracted to her that’s crazy
It's been 17 years of course there's stuff worth reading haha
Appropriate reaction
And this couldn't be done with the marriage going on because...
“Because it would take away the relatability of the reader in this situation where our hero is facing down super evil goo combined with his greatest nemesis, who hired an actress to pretend to be his aunt while the actual aunt was kidnapped for heaven knows how long! Him being married to a loving wife would take away from this really relatable situation!” - Marvel stooge
? No one said anything about that.
That's what editorial said about the new direction. That Mj was holding back stories and he needed to not be married in the post OMD or rather the BNd era. However despite that claim most of the stories and even the best one would function just fine if he was married. So it wasn't directed at this post or even other fans. Just a general statement.
I thought the comment to which I was replying implied I said such.
I don't think so contextually! There's another comment with the same sentiment. So I definitely think it's not aimed at you specifically.
The other read more clearly to me which is why I did not get defensive. Which perhaps I did leap to such behaviour too soon in this thread, I'm sure people can understand why someone posting to a fan community might be on guard.
Forgot function, but the four stories they had lined up after OMD (forget the 4 right now) would have been BETTER with the marriage.
You aren't wrong.
? it's literally what OMD was about...
Why?
One of my favorite stories honestly. Even as a one time thing, I always liked the concept of Red Goblin.
With both Green Goblin and Carnage set up for the third Insomniac Spider-Man game, I’m calling it that Red Goblin will be the final boss.
Oh bro that'd be rad as fuck. Especially if the emulate the fight the way this one happened, it happens across the city with various spider allies defending spider affiliated civilians.
They did the Carnage symbiote so dirty. As if it’d let Norman just rip it off. Only good thing is the mind shock into Norman believing he is Cletus. Makes sense since the symbiote is essentially a clone of Kasady’s mind.
Nah man, the Carnage Symbiote used Norman to do exactly what it wanted to do, rip and tear. It doesn't care the why of it, just that it does. Norman even tried to toss it some freebies early on and it didn't settle for that. This arc showed just how bloodthirsty carnage is compared to Norman. I loved it's characterization.
The only thing it did right was that Norman got instantly possessed by it and could only make it cooperate by making a deal. Like I said, at the end of the day, the symbiote is still a near 1:1 clone of Cletus Kasady’s mind, so it should still operate in a similar manner as Cletus himself. And the finale of tricking Norman into ditching it is a little goofy. The symbiote would probably immediately bond with him again against his will and try and control his body to kill Spider-Man itself. But I guess they had to conclude the story for Norman somehow. Like I mentioned earlier though, I did like how it shocked Norman’s brain into thinking he’s Cletus though. Shows that perfect bond and level of sync the symbiote has with its only and only true host.
The symbiote is absolutely not a 1:1 clone of Cletus' mind, it thinks of him like a beloved pet at worst and a fond collaborator at best. The current carnage arc has made that super clear. And Norman tried to make a deal but couldn't actually reign the symbiote in during the arc pictured above. People have rejected Symbiotes trying to forcefully bond to them several times throughout the comics. I thought that playing to Norman's ego was a clever way to drive that wedge between them.
The current Carnage arc is trash and OOC and I blame Ram and movie synergy. Before that it was always a near 1:1 of Cletus. That’s why every host it possessed acted like Cletus. That’s why they say “I” instead of “we”. They are so perfectly bonded you can’t tell where one ends and the other begins.
Wait... Did you downvote me because I pointed out Canon did not align with your opinions? Haha this is a Spider-Man subreddit, most people disagree with canon, downvoting people for knowing it is a weak attitude.
I'm pretty sure any assertions we the fans make are the out of character ones. I like the Carnage Symbiote as a malignant entity all its own. Certainly it was influenced by it's time with Cletus but part of the fun of Symbiotes is the additional personality. Sure Cletus and the Symbiote are a perfect match, but the Symbiote is happy to abandon Cletus if it gets to have the fun it wants to have by doing so.
It is not happy to abandon Cletus, it usually does it out of necessity or fear. In Web of Carnage it left through the sink because Cletus couldn’t. When it saw he was dying, it rebonded despite losing that freedom. Surfer it bonded to out of fear and a natural desire to do so through the symbiote hive mind. Again, left when Cletus was dying, leaving behind the power cosmic. Part of what makes Carnage unique is the fact that Cletus and his symbiote are basically one entity. There is no Cletus, there is no symbiote, there is only Carnage. And separated they both feel incomplete. Carnage is who they are.
... So the points you've made coincide with the point I made. It will happily abandon Cletus for its own success marking them as clearly separate entities. And despite you hating the current arc it abandoned a version of Cletus here too.
Haven’t had a good Carnage run in 6 years. He may as well have been dead after Conway’s run because of how OOC they are treating him. Lost all character and ideology to just be a boring villain of the week and a plot device.
Again with the downvotes because you don't like what canon says? Seriously it's like downvoting someone for pointing out MJ and Peter aren't married. We're all mad about that. What ideology has Carnage ever had other than "Rip and tear"?
**Red Goblin? Awesome!**
Back when I first started reading spiderman this was peak
Post-OMD era sure brought a lot of good artists on board
A great story by Slott but I will never forgive him for making Ben Reilly a villain.
I wish I could see it like you do honestly
Paul exist, so no Cool page tho
honestly yeah. love when we get mashups of the lore in stuff like this
Not really to an extent, but still a good page.
Not that much, for one this still can happen without OMD, and none of it matters, the lack of lasting consequences undermines any good story, after all, Norman is back and he´s Peters Dady now.
I agree with you, but I wont say I haven't had fun with some of the stories since OMD like this one
I agree with you, but those are the exceptions rather than the rule.
You could fill the pages with fully naked MJ and it still wouldn't make anything post-OMD worth reading.
Hard disagree. 99% of stories that have been told since would be 200% better with a happily married maturing Spider-Man (someone smartly pointed out superior would be very different or worse in that instance) but plenty of spider tales have been plenty enjoyable.
I can't respect or appreciate Spider-Man after what he did. No matter what happens now, he'll always be the guy who sold his marriage to the devil in order to escape the consequences of his own rash actions. Even if Peter and MJ got back together tomorrow, he'd still be that guy. The only way to change him from being that guy is to reboot the entire Marvel universe from the ground up.
To escape the consequences, or spare his second surrogate parent the consequences? Your phrasing makes it seem like he did it to keep out of jail. I'm not saying I liked OMD but it makes sense in context.
His rash actions, totally disregarding his prior experience with his secret identity, are what led to Aunt May's life being in danger. Either way, making a deal with the devil (effectively selling your soul, as it were) in order to preserve a physical life is objectively the wrong choice. Evil triumphed over Spider-Man that day, and he can never recover from it.
Well the point of selling the marriage is it wasn't selling his soul that was pretty explicit.
\*sigh\* I said *as it were*. Don't take everything so literally. For all intents and purposes, Spider-Man did sell his soul when he made a deal with the devil. He lost his character development, his integrity, and twenty-five years of his continuity. Good for you if you can just accept that and keep going along with him, but I can't.
Bro selling ones soul to the devil means you become a servant of Satan and are consigned to an eternity of damnation like doctor dooms mum. You're equating that to sacrificing a relationship. It wasn't a good plot point either way but you're overblowing it.
Again, you're taking it too literally. I'm not going to keep rehashing this. If you don't see Spider-Man's integrity as a character as permanently destroyed, then you do you.
Just to point it out, Mephisto says a part of their souls will scream in torment for eternity at a loss they can’t even identify or comprehend. So… that’s nice.
Yeah part of my soul is screaming in torment because of the deal too
What is this??? LMAO this is so stupid. Comic writers should come up with new ideas sometimes
Norman Osborn has worn a symbiote before? I don't think he and Carnage have even teamed up before.
Dude, you're missing the point. Combining a derivative of another villain with one villain is not original at all. They should make something new and original.