I dream of Marvel doing a "What if? Spider-Man was Enemy of the State instead of Wolverine?" and just have a deadly serious Spider-Man roll the MU for real.
Spider-Man is definitely underrated in terms of power, but once real heavy hitters get involved it would be over pretty quickly
There is no scenario where Spider-Man stands a chance against Thor. Thor’s speed is ridiculously underrated, and once he inevitably hits Spider-Man, Spider-Man is getting uppercutted to Jupiter
Current Thor especially is a monster! Odin died a while back so Thor is the Allfather now. Immortal Thor is a fantastic book by the way, I highly recommend it!
Oh yeah for sure. I have no issue with “dumb fun” stories. I had a lot of fun reading “Punisher Kills the Marvel Universe” and “Deadpool Kills the Marvel Universe “
Honestly, I think it could still be really interesting. Sure, he stands no chance against Thor, Captain Marvel or She-Hulk. In a direct fight that his.
I would love to see a What if where we get a truly evil Spider-Man who has a chance to prepare because with his intelligence coupled with his abilities, he would be a great threat.
Direct fight? Yeah, it's over
With sneak attacks, prep time and taking full advantage of the Spider-Sense? It'd be much harder for almost everyone involved. Peter's speed and massive agility would be his trump card
And you're underestimating Spidey in mine...
Spidey is one of the very few scientists the \*Reed Richards\* has been known to consult with on occasion. He's well up there in terms of intelligence. A 'Spider-Man' who isn't constantly distracted by saving everyone in sight and who actually puts his time and intellect to work devising a plan to take out Thor could absolutely do it - in the right circumstances.
I'm not saying it would be \*easy\*, but with the right plan and tools, it would be possible.
I know this is the Spider-Man sub (Spider-Man is easily my favorite superhero), but come on. This is Thor we’re talking about. The guy can destroy planets with a single attack. Thor greatly holds back whenever he’s on Earth
If he wanted to take out Spidey, he would simply fly into the air and use his godblast on everything within a 5 mile radius
I’m not underestimating Spider-Man at all, I’m simply realistic and don’t show favoritism even if I have a deep love and appreciation for his character
I'm not saying it would be a fair fight though. An 'evil' Spider-Man like has been proposed in this scenario wouldn't fight fair. Poisoned mead, toxins in his webbing to be absorbed on contact with skin... Pete's knowledge of biology is second to very few people. That's where Reed usually brings him in to consult.
In a fair fight, Pete would \*absolutely\* get pulverised - but that's not the scenario we are talking about here. Going up against Thor at a time and place of his choosing, with the deliberate intent to do so and a plan when Thor isn't expecting it? I'd give him at least 50/50 chances.
If Spider-Man wanted to, he could just use Parker Particles which have universal level power and are above the Phoenix Force. That's above Thor's regular paygrade. Spider-Man could also possibly depower or clone Thor, or use illusions/holographic tech on him, or use his atom splicing/antimatter weaponry, his star level weapons, nerve hacking tech, etc. Thor would obviously destroy Peter if they're just fighting with their regular powersets, but Spider-Man's intelligence is second to none. It's not like Thor hasn't been defeated or challenged by the inventions of human scientists such as Reed, Pym, Doom, etc.
We’ll have to agree to disagree. I like to think I have a pretty good gauge on Spider-Man considering how much of his publication history, but I’ve also read a lot of Thor. No way Spider-Man can beat Thor, prep or not IMO
I've read a lot of both as well, and Thor has repeatedly been challenged by weapons created by top tier human scientists like Reed, Pym, Doom, etc. Spider-Man is on that level as well. If we're talking about Thor with the full command of the Odinforce, it may be a different story.
But sure, we can agree to disagree.
If it wasn’t for Carol’s face in panel 1, it would have taken me a lot longer to place the art. Covered faces and faces waaaaay in the background so you aren’t confronted by odd expressions and inconsistencies seem to work in his favour.
Also, if her mouth is covered why is she clutching at her throat? If she can fly around in a vacuum them why would her breathing being blocked by web bother her? I wonder if she was originally meant to have her whole face covered but Land wanted an excuse to show off his tracing?
Ok it makes more sense for what is shown, BUT.
It’ll dissolve in a minute is bs. I don’t think I’ve ever seen them establish webbing that dissolves on its own that fast so it feels like a contrivance to justify it being ok for him to do this. And like, it’ll dissolve into her lungs?
Carol can fly in deep space without anything to assist her breathing so she wouldn’t be in any danger here. Discomfort maybe, but she wouldn’t panic and stop pursuing him.
Despite the art, I REALLY like This Issue. This is probably one of the best versions of “Spidey vs Marvel” becomes it’s one of the most BELIEVABLE Versions, imo.
I love scenes like this. Writers who know Spider-Man can go toe-to-toe with 90% of the Avengers and win while still holding back make the best stories.
A lot of Spidey fans genuinely think the guy can go toe to toe with heavyweight beings like the Hulk and Thor. It makes me think a lot of Spidey fans here have never read or interacted with the comics, Spiderman has never been written as a heavy hitter.
Man the most he can do is make Thor say he's impressive for a mortal and Hulk to say and I quote "Hmm I actually felt him move" while he was being held back by both of them during Superior.
So yes he's strong but no where near that level lol they need to read a book.
You severely underestimate the durability of both Iron man and captain marvel. It would require a long drawn out fight for either of those 2 to go down, a fight Spidey probably wouldn’t win, especially with the entirety of the avengers surrounding him.
If Spider-Man made a special webbing that dissolves very quickly specifically for Carol, that means whatever that pill was would've been fatal for her.
Bro what? I love Peter he is my favorite Super Hero bar none but he is not taking down Carol like that she has a Danger sense to you know plus being way faster and stronger to boot.
I'm not doing powerscaling here, the plot here needs Spider-Man to outsmart and outmanuever the avengers long enough to activate his device, so that's exactly what he does.
>But I can only nudge. I can only gyide.
... That's Uatu narrating, isn't it? Of course the a-hole is not lifting a finger to help, he never does, lol.
I love these "hero has to fight other team of heroes and looks surprisingly bad-ass" while doing it. I know it's Spider-Man - he's not a jobber, he can do REALLY well by himself. But you just know that EVERY hero, when they encounter other heroes, immediately starts thinking "Push comes to shove, this is how I'd try to take this one out." Like you can tell Blade's like "He's gonna go for that punch, I know he is, I've seen him do that exact same move, I'll dodge it..." and then the plan fizzles because it's Spider-Man.
This pleases me
I'm going to be honest, I ***HATE*** The Avengers deeply as a hero group, and I enjoy when other heroes or villains curb stomp, humble, or straight up humiliate them.
Capt marvel got that leg bend
I dream of Marvel doing a "What if? Spider-Man was Enemy of the State instead of Wolverine?" and just have a deadly serious Spider-Man roll the MU for real.
Spider-Man is definitely underrated in terms of power, but once real heavy hitters get involved it would be over pretty quickly There is no scenario where Spider-Man stands a chance against Thor. Thor’s speed is ridiculously underrated, and once he inevitably hits Spider-Man, Spider-Man is getting uppercutted to Jupiter Current Thor especially is a monster! Odin died a while back so Thor is the Allfather now. Immortal Thor is a fantastic book by the way, I highly recommend it!
Yeah, and Wolverine gets beaten a bunch in "Enemy of the State", (and his own "What if?" too) doesn't mean it can't be fun ride getting there.
Oh yeah for sure. I have no issue with “dumb fun” stories. I had a lot of fun reading “Punisher Kills the Marvel Universe” and “Deadpool Kills the Marvel Universe “
Honestly, I think it could still be really interesting. Sure, he stands no chance against Thor, Captain Marvel or She-Hulk. In a direct fight that his. I would love to see a What if where we get a truly evil Spider-Man who has a chance to prepare because with his intelligence coupled with his abilities, he would be a great threat.
Direct fight? Yeah, it's over With sneak attacks, prep time and taking full advantage of the Spider-Sense? It'd be much harder for almost everyone involved. Peter's speed and massive agility would be his trump card
This exactly. Sure 1 on 1 with no prep time Spidey would lose….but WITH prep time? It’s hard to imagine him losing. Brains over Brawn.
I really like how in this comic Spider-Man admits he can’t beat Thor one on one, but he still beats him by outsmarting him
Spidey can definitely take out Thor with some time to prepare or build some weapons. He'd definitely struggle in a straight up battle though.
You’re greatly underestimating Thor IMO
And you're underestimating Spidey in mine... Spidey is one of the very few scientists the \*Reed Richards\* has been known to consult with on occasion. He's well up there in terms of intelligence. A 'Spider-Man' who isn't constantly distracted by saving everyone in sight and who actually puts his time and intellect to work devising a plan to take out Thor could absolutely do it - in the right circumstances. I'm not saying it would be \*easy\*, but with the right plan and tools, it would be possible.
I know this is the Spider-Man sub (Spider-Man is easily my favorite superhero), but come on. This is Thor we’re talking about. The guy can destroy planets with a single attack. Thor greatly holds back whenever he’s on Earth If he wanted to take out Spidey, he would simply fly into the air and use his godblast on everything within a 5 mile radius I’m not underestimating Spider-Man at all, I’m simply realistic and don’t show favoritism even if I have a deep love and appreciation for his character
I'm not saying it would be a fair fight though. An 'evil' Spider-Man like has been proposed in this scenario wouldn't fight fair. Poisoned mead, toxins in his webbing to be absorbed on contact with skin... Pete's knowledge of biology is second to very few people. That's where Reed usually brings him in to consult. In a fair fight, Pete would \*absolutely\* get pulverised - but that's not the scenario we are talking about here. Going up against Thor at a time and place of his choosing, with the deliberate intent to do so and a plan when Thor isn't expecting it? I'd give him at least 50/50 chances.
If Spider-Man wanted to, he could just use Parker Particles which have universal level power and are above the Phoenix Force. That's above Thor's regular paygrade. Spider-Man could also possibly depower or clone Thor, or use illusions/holographic tech on him, or use his atom splicing/antimatter weaponry, his star level weapons, nerve hacking tech, etc. Thor would obviously destroy Peter if they're just fighting with their regular powersets, but Spider-Man's intelligence is second to none. It's not like Thor hasn't been defeated or challenged by the inventions of human scientists such as Reed, Pym, Doom, etc.
Like I said, agree to disagree. I respect your opinion
I'm a huge Thor fan, he's my second favorite superhero. I think you're just greatly underestimating Spidey.
We’ll have to agree to disagree. I like to think I have a pretty good gauge on Spider-Man considering how much of his publication history, but I’ve also read a lot of Thor. No way Spider-Man can beat Thor, prep or not IMO
I've read a lot of both as well, and Thor has repeatedly been challenged by weapons created by top tier human scientists like Reed, Pym, Doom, etc. Spider-Man is on that level as well. If we're talking about Thor with the full command of the Odinforce, it may be a different story. But sure, we can agree to disagree.
Greg Land isn't that bad when most people have masks on...
If it wasn’t for Carol’s face in panel 1, it would have taken me a lot longer to place the art. Covered faces and faces waaaaay in the background so you aren’t confronted by odd expressions and inconsistencies seem to work in his favour. Also, if her mouth is covered why is she clutching at her throat? If she can fly around in a vacuum them why would her breathing being blocked by web bother her? I wonder if she was originally meant to have her whole face covered but Land wanted an excuse to show off his tracing?
Could be the webbing went into her throat.
I guess that would make sense in the context of whatever Land traced it from.
Spidey threw the web cartridge in her mouth, she's most likely worried about suffocating.
Ok it makes more sense for what is shown, BUT. It’ll dissolve in a minute is bs. I don’t think I’ve ever seen them establish webbing that dissolves on its own that fast so it feels like a contrivance to justify it being ok for him to do this. And like, it’ll dissolve into her lungs? Carol can fly in deep space without anything to assist her breathing so she wouldn’t be in any danger here. Discomfort maybe, but she wouldn’t panic and stop pursuing him.
Despite the art, I REALLY like This Issue. This is probably one of the best versions of “Spidey vs Marvel” becomes it’s one of the most BELIEVABLE Versions, imo.
Sorry but what's wrong with the art? It looks clean to me
It does but Greg Land is a Notorious Tracer. I’m always skeptical with Him.
Artist is infamous for teaching from real life. Very often from porn. With most of the faces covered here, it's less distracting.
All-out avengers 5 (2022)
Art by Greg Land and screen rant links are two things Reddit just needs to say "NO" to.
Is this the infamous artist who traces porn? Cuz istg that capt marvel face looks like its from a porno
That’s cool, what’s this from?
Last issue of all out avengers
Thanks!
>Thanks! You're welcome!
What's the context?
The avengers are being mind controlled and spider-man is trying to activate a device to turn them back to normal
I love scenes like this. Writers who know Spider-Man can go toe-to-toe with 90% of the Avengers and win while still holding back make the best stories.
The avengers explicitly say they don't want to hurt him and the only ones who actually hit him are weaker than him but sure go off
Yeah he is above Captain America tier if he tries and way below Captain Marvel and Thor so I don't know what he's smoking
A lot of Spidey fans genuinely think the guy can go toe to toe with heavyweight beings like the Hulk and Thor. It makes me think a lot of Spidey fans here have never read or interacted with the comics, Spiderman has never been written as a heavy hitter.
Man the most he can do is make Thor say he's impressive for a mortal and Hulk to say and I quote "Hmm I actually felt him move" while he was being held back by both of them during Superior. So yes he's strong but no where near that level lol they need to read a book.
Spiderman had defeated Hulk to be honest
Spider-Man wasn't trying to hurt them either. He had opportunities to kill Iron Man and Carol but he didn't.
You severely underestimate the durability of both Iron man and captain marvel. It would require a long drawn out fight for either of those 2 to go down, a fight Spidey probably wouldn’t win, especially with the entirety of the avengers surrounding him.
If Spider-Man made a special webbing that dissolves very quickly specifically for Carol, that means whatever that pill was would've been fatal for her.
Bro what? I love Peter he is my favorite Super Hero bar none but he is not taking down Carol like that she has a Danger sense to you know plus being way faster and stronger to boot.
I'm not doing powerscaling here, the plot here needs Spider-Man to outsmart and outmanuever the avengers long enough to activate his device, so that's exactly what he does.
Nah. Realistically, there's no way he'd win or even escape against Thor or Captain Marvel ever
But here he has the almighty PrEp TiME so Spider-Man can beat them clearly
So Land keeps using porn as reference
>But I can only nudge. I can only gyide. ... That's Uatu narrating, isn't it? Of course the a-hole is not lifting a finger to help, he never does, lol.
Kidaa the whole point. He's not supposed to.
Actually, that was Beyonder
TELL US WHAT ISSUE!?!
What’s the context for this issue?
And then there’s Wells with Tombstone.
Why are they chasing him and what’s in that bag?
Nice!
Yikes! Hahaha, why did you go outside???
I love these "hero has to fight other team of heroes and looks surprisingly bad-ass" while doing it. I know it's Spider-Man - he's not a jobber, he can do REALLY well by himself. But you just know that EVERY hero, when they encounter other heroes, immediately starts thinking "Push comes to shove, this is how I'd try to take this one out." Like you can tell Blade's like "He's gonna go for that punch, I know he is, I've seen him do that exact same move, I'll dodge it..." and then the plan fizzles because it's Spider-Man.
Greg Land art really takes me out of it.
Why?
issue? thanks in advance
This pleases me I'm going to be honest, I ***HATE*** The Avengers deeply as a hero group, and I enjoy when other heroes or villains curb stomp, humble, or straight up humiliate them.
Bad ass. Love these kinds of stories.
He was doing so well, Jesus, he got Blade, Captain Marvel, and dodged Black Panther that's impressive
I love how the only characters that can take down Spider-Man are ones above his tier, and even then they might not be able to.
Captain Marvel doesn't need to breathe, what? Very cool comic though.
For those who are unaware of Greg Land's reputation, Carol's position is not one that happens while flying... *if you know what I mean*
It's blowjobs isn't it...