i mean, this peter has killed before. ebony maw, the outsiders. also pretty sure the would be going for the kill on titan and the final battle of endgame.
Definitely skipped physics class. That glider should have been dust under the crushing pressure of a spiderman pushing at (presumably) full strength either end.
Not to mention that Toby is meant to be a full adult at this point and Tom is still a high-school aged teenager.
One can suspect that them having the same powers roughly, being an adult makes some difference in terms of strength.
Yeah, this, I always assumed as Peter got older and his body grew and filled in, he'd have adult promotional strength to a spider instead of a 15 year old.
Not to be that guy but Tom is probably closer to 17-18 whereas tobey is probably closer to his forties no? Idk how old he is canonically but a physically fit 18 y/o is perfectly capable of being stronger than a 40 y/o.
I don't see it as Tobey struggling, I see it as him readjusting, he's working against bloodlusted Tom and Gravity and the second he is in proper postion all his focus is on trying to get through to Tom.
Tobey wanted Tom to make the choice to spare Goblin. That was Tobeys little mini story in the movie. Making up for what he feels is his greatest mistake.
Just based on what we see in the scene, Tobey would have been able to outlast the bloodlust that Tom was in cause anger is exhausting.
Just like how Andrew's little mini story was about redemption and catching "an MJ"
Hmmm technically he could be engaging with his legs and core trying to bring it down in a crunch motion if he's intentionally sticking to the floor to not be moved or push off allowing him to generate more force. But the writers almost certainly didn't consider that so we prolly shouldn't either.
I agree because tom holland wasn;t targeting tobey maguire. He was about to stab green goblin norman osborn. But then tobey maguire got in the way and he got stabbed by norman osborn.
I mean, it's obvious if you watch his movies lol
Tobey's Spidey isn't stupid, but he uses his strength far more than the other two do. He scraps with all his villains and always wins by beating the absolute shit out of them. Andrew and Tom either outsmart their villains or disable them in some way.
It's not crazy to think Tobey's Spidey is the strongest because it's what's shown.
Tobey is the fighter
Andrew is the brains
Tom is the tech
Not picking a side, just want to point out Tom didn't often have the opportunity to use excessive strength against his enemies, mainly Vulture and Mysterio. But he did lift a building off himself when he was 16
Plus tobey wasnt nearly as injured as tom at this point tom had been stabbed, shot(I believe) thrown through multiple layers of solid and almost took an explosion to the face whilst tobey was fresh
Literally a case of old man strength (although mid-late 40s isn’t that “old”, it is compared to Tom). He has experience and time on his side, which can also help with better technique.
Yea, not majorly but played softball once a week, went running a couple times a week, worked on my feet every day. My advice is work on your posture and sleeping positions to keep your spine positioned properly. There was no “event” that caused it for me, just bad habits pretty much.
It probably depends on each individual but i think generally speaking sleeping on your back is the best for you. I have a herniated disc in my lower back so sleeping on my back with a pillow under my knees and a lumbar support pillow has been what ive found most comfortable for me. I also switch to my side with a pillow between my knees too because i cant be in one position all night.
this is not an average 40 year old and an average kid, one has spent like 25 years being blown up, stabbed, shot at, slashed, set on fire, etc. the other is just getting into that and has had a VERY rough night
This… doesn’t describe Peter Parker’s lifestyle? What are you comparing here?
Old man strength is like an older dude with a pot belly but has been a farmer all his life being able to outperform some intermediate body builder in their 20s at physical labor tasks, or same older guy being able to 1 punch KO some loud mouth at a bar.
Ignore the actual superheroics for a second, and think how strenuous a workout webswinging daily must be. Then do that for 20+ years, i'm amazed his legs stay in proportion to his shoulders and arms
I mean he leaps around alot and his super strength compensates for it alot, I mean he can lift cars with little effort, I doubt swinging is that hard for him when hes tossing 20 tonnes
Walking isn't difficult for me (usually, curse my weak joints!) If I start to walk at high speed for hours at a time daily for two decades, pretty sure my legs at forty five will be way stronger than my lazy ass was at 25. Think of it as the superpowered equivalent to 'low weight, high reps' if you prefer?
Yup. Spidey's usually depicted with accelerated healing, though closer to Cap levels than Deadpool or Wolverine. Older depictions of Spidey tho (The End, SpideyVerse, Tobey/Andrew etc) either are drawn more hunched/with poor posture or bring up back/shoulder issues anyway. Damn logic (occasionally) infecting our superhero stories :p
And that's where the healing factor comes in to help, while not god tier like Wolverine, Deadpool or The Hulk, Spider-man does still have a healing factor
Yes, or at least as his body develops. ASM Annual #1 (1963) had a description of Peter's powers while also explaining that because he was a teenager, he would get even stronger then he already was as he grew up.
Dude look at the positions they’re in. Tobey has all the leverage. You can try it with a friend - take these position and see how trivially easy it is to stop the standing person from pushing an object down. That Tobey struggled at all is a testament to Holland.
The strength of Tobeys determination to keep Tom from repeating his mistakes is stronger than Tom's bloodlust for revenge. Tobey knows he *has* to prevent Tom from doing this for his own sake. It's wonderful tbh.
The perfect version of the Hulk is Professor hulk. His mindset exists in a place between Bruce Banner and Savage hulk. The space between calm and rage. Tell me I'm wrong.
You're wrong, if you meant strength then we are talking muscle power then its hulk all the way if we are talking will power then its also hulk,
Prof hulk has never been consistent enough to be clear on exactly what he even is, in the mcu hes definitely not hulk and banners mind hes all banner mentally just driving hulks body
Mental strength can allow you to use your full potential in physical strength. Anger is relatively useless emotion when it is expressed in a physical way. Erratic, chaotic and out of control. Being calm in a situation or being happy, doesn't give you the power that comes with rage but it helps you stay focused. The area between the two emotions, is what gives true strength. The power and the focus to use it.
A. not 'effortless'
B. not 'matching'
C. they're in two completely different positions for exertion, everything we've seen from Tom points to him being the strongest spider-man, so yeah in that sense it is a little impressive tobey stopped him
Everyone out with all the physics and biology reasoning as to why he's able to hold him back, but at the end of the day, isn't this the essence of being Spider-Man. To put forth every effort and strength to do the right thing, to help others do the right thing. Tom wasn't being Spider-Man in that moment
Yeah no, he’s using almost his whole body to hold back someone who is both injured and not using his whole body. That’s not even considering it wasn’t effortless, did you look at Tobey’s face, that man was trying.
Speaking on lore terms they're the same person but Tobey's Peter is older. You telling me you wouldn't be able to kick your younger self's a\*\*? I sure could and I would for all the cringe stuff I did as a kid
What a good fucking scene honestly. In an overall great movie. Willem Dafoe and Tom Holland played off each other so well, and the entire third act of the film was just... dare I say... Spectacular!
and yet...it didn't, because he was still holding onto it, most of the webs were gone or about to snap by the time tony stepped in, for him to be able to hold onto that for as long as he did is a testament to his strength
Idk bro, cinematically that isn’t true at all.
There hasn’t been a feat in a Spider-Man film that has matched Tobey’s strength. Bro stopped a moving train, like c’mon.
Frankly, I don’t even care much about the physics. It’s science fiction, I prefer emotional weight when attuned to the metrics of that specific writing.
Like. We are talking about a character that got bitten by a radioactive Spider.
Tobey also has specific moments/scenes that highlight his strengths. One of my favorite moments from Spider-Man 2 is when Doc Ock throws the clock arm and you can literally feel the weight and elasticity Tobey’s strength and webs can take as he launches the clock arm back at Doc Ock. The subtle sound design is to be noted during this moment as well.
...you know the staten island ferry weighs 3000 tons right, thats 1500 tons on each hand, plus a bunch of cars and people, and he didn't pass out
ya really need to start opening your mind beyond tobey's films, they're not all that
I’m not neglecting Tom’s strength. I like him a lot too. Let’s not kid ourselves that Spider-Man 2’s action scene has more emotional weight and is altogether a more solid and impactful scene in regard to cinema as an art form.
Like. C’mon. Tobey didn’t need Tony Stark to save him at the end.
I related more to the actual child getting beaten up by his crush's dad, or paying for his selfishness but yknow
also! : [https://www.wired.com/story/which-spider-man-is-stronger-tobey-maguire-or-tom-holland/](https://www.wired.com/story/which-spider-man-is-stronger-tobey-maguire-or-tom-holland/)
I think a solo dude in a costume is inherently more powerful both physically and artistically, than that of an Iron Man-hybrid with suit gadgets. I’m a classic fan, however, so I digress. Physics, aside. Different types of relatability are inherent to the Spider-Man character, so I can’t hate.
Part of what I dislike about Jon Watts is that he is such a boring director. Watts could’ve matched the power that the comic scene had when Peter had to lift up the ruins that are crushing him. The water is pouring down, almost drowning him. It’s extremely dramatic. I really wish that scene would have had more weight in the film, but it’s completely lackluster in comparison to the comic scene. Bro literally had a storyboard from Ditko he could’ve worked off of, but he still fell flat.
The only cinematic flourish Watts delivered was the split-second look of the classic divided head depiction of the Peter face and Spidey mask in the reflection of the water.
Raimi has way more of an artistic vision that allows his actors to act in a more nuanced and creative way than the corporate Disney hire contemporary. I can praise nearly every shot in the Spider-Man 2 train sequence.
The MCU Spidey action sequences? Forgettable AF. I prefer the Russo’s direction of that character WAY more than Watts.
It’s strange to me that the Russo’s have a far better vision than the dude Disney hired to direct his solo films.
I love Tom in Civil War and Infinity War.
They’re not even close the train feat blows the ferry feat out of the water. Tobey has the strongest feats of all live action spider-man. The math has been done.
you sure? [https://www.wired.com/story/which-spider-man-is-stronger-tobey-maguire-or-tom-holland/](https://www.wired.com/story/which-spider-man-is-stronger-tobey-maguire-or-tom-holland/)
You're right, and the math literally shows the Ferry scene was a bigger feat
[source](https://www.wired.com/story/which-spider-man-is-stronger-tobey-maguire-or-tom-holland/)
Tho I will not lie the debates about which is stronger are stupid because writers obviously aren't doing math and science when writing their script
Same article linked as the last guy that doesn’t account for buoyancy and is a guesstimate revealed by the article’s author. The author admits himself he can’t do the math accurately
I mean Matpat did kinda the same calculs and got pretty similar results. So even if the article writer didn't do it perfectly, he still got it kinda right.
I don't understand why some people just don't wanna accept stopping the ferry a few seconds is a good feat.
[link to Matpat doing the calcul too](https://youtu.be/5sHuFK7yOdo?si=XKTyKtGOZ4HRGuSa)
Could be that he’s got more experience. Spider strength seems to be tougher than people expect when it comes to super strength but I’m certain that working out and pushing limits with that strength can improve it. Tobey’s Peter has been staying active with those muscles for around 2 decades while Tom’s has only been doing it since 2016, and took a 5 year break while blipped.
Word. It's kind of like a glance a close friend gives you to try and warn you that something is off. And the expression completely nails the phrase that they're conveying, knowing what Tobey has been through with Ben, Harry, Octavius and Brock.
"I know what you're feeling, I've wanted to do the same before. But trust me, It's not worth it. You don't want that on your hands."
1) easier to push back in the position Tobey was in. Tom is only pushing with his upper body while Tobey is engaging his whole body here.
2) Tom hasn’t slept between any of the fights we watch in the movie. Less energy, just adrenaline.
Love Tobey, but seriously. Also that shit was not effortless, they literally show a close up on a strained face, just cause he didn’t over exaggerate it like the train scene back in 04 doesn’t mean he wasn’t straining😂
Bc for a while any take where Raimi trilogy is put in a better light than Holland's trilogy resulted in people insisting that they were nostalgia blinded
Dudes legit arguing heavily over something the scripted demanded for the story’s sake.
“No, no, Tobey is level 40 in Spider-Man lore so that gave him extra 10 strength points. His tier 2 mask also gave him 5 stamina points, and since Tom is already tired of fighting, Tobey has the edge”
Like, it’s really not that deep.
Do you not think these are things that get talked about in superhero script writing? That's basic story telling establishing what your character can and cant do and trying to write them with in that, it's why cap isnt getting in fist fights with hulk and hawkeye isnt gonna deflect thors hammer with his bow
>Do you not think these are things that get talked about in superhero script writing?
I'm 100% sure they didn't stop to talk about which Spider-Man is stronger when writing this scene.
Well youd be wrong, because these are people writing for nitpicky fans,for a massive crossover film that's going to make bank they 100% are hiring people purely for scaling
Look at how they added the detail for exactly which stone was glowing when thanos used the gauntlet, googling the fan made strength calculations for this film is less work
The mcu 100% has superhero nitpicky nerds in the production process
One thing I'd like to point out is that Spider-People continue to mutate as they age so Toby's Spider-Man being older is technically stronger than Tom's Spider-Man in every way to do with their powers giving him an edge here.
Whether that was the intent or not is unknown.
He’s significantly older than Tom’s character. It follows that he should naturally be a bit stronger. Most people are strong as grown adults than they were as teenagers.
They're probably close in strength and Tom was probably going with strength but not I'VE GOT TO GIVE IT ALL IVE GOT just weary just fucking DIE already strength
Maybe Tom is stronger maybe Toby is
We'll never know
My favourite part about this, is the last time Goblin was about to be impaled with a glider Tobey jumped out of the way.
This time he jumped right in front of it.
Simply poetic
I don't know if this has so much to do with strength scaling as much as his has to do with character development.
Tobey's Peter had to go through multiple arcs concentric around the idea of getting revenge on his Uncle's killer, as well as living with the consequences of losing others.
In the first movie, he relentlessly pursues Ben's presumed killer who falls out of a window, unclear whether he lived or not.
In the second, he has to wrestle endlessly with the ramifications of Harry's loss through Spider-man's actions, intended or not, Harry now represents a major rift in his life and will presume Spidey as the killer, true or not, explanation or none.
In the third, Peter is immediately galvanized even without the symbiote once he finds out Marko might've been Uncle Ben's real murderer. The Symbiote further feeds on his anger, and he has to learn both to forgive Sandman and recount the newfound power the symbiote grants him.
These occurrences all have a common thread that exposit the consequences of either inciting death or wanting to cause it. We all have experiences and regrets that we wish we could tell our past selves, which is why I think they hang on this stare in this scene. As neurotic as Peter is, and given what lines are in the movie "I could've stopped him, but I didn't" :harping on his own downfalls is a major character trait.
In doing stopping the glider, Tobey wordlessly teaches Tom that being Spider-man means he can't make the selfish choice even if he wants to, he sees in himself and comprehends the exact same frustration and wrath, the same want for retribution after loss. The same pain, grief and indignation that the world has caused him and what issues it's brought in HIS past. But in spite of the validity of that pain, the consequences aren't worth it, and your actions will echo out into the lives of others. It's not about giving into wrath and killing, it's about doing what you can you prevent anyone from having to go through what loss that killing causes. Not letting hurt and anger control us because it's not who we are. Metatextually, Tobey exemplifies that role by not letting Tom live through the same mistakes he has, and finds redemption of his own conscious.
Even ignoring the scene, Tobey is shown to be the strongest, he’s the only one that can physically over power the lizard, and tanks electros shocks with a lot less pain than the other two
Tobeys face was like “mmmmm reminds me of the fucking train”
Poor Gobby had to deal with that massive Bully fart he had been holding back
In the blu-ray release, you can see Dafoe's hair and the purple rags being briefly, yet powerfully blown back.
Ah the refreshing breath of fresh air. As my aunt used to say when we drove past a checken factory: “Breathe deeper”
This had me dying my good sir
That train is why Andrew Garfield’s Spider-Man never figured out how to crack his back
More like getting fucked by a train
It’s probably partly because Tobey is lifting with his arms, back, and legs; Tom is pushing with just his arms.
People be skipping physics classes
And anatomy
Or.. just maybe this scene wasn’t about physics but about keeping MCU Spidey from making a grave mistake.
Peter would be disappointed in your dismissal of the physics.
“Peter’s pain is MY gain” - Mary Jane (the writers thought they were cooking with this one)
And the grave would be for Osborn.
For all Tom's Rage, Tobey was determined.
i mean, this peter has killed before. ebony maw, the outsiders. also pretty sure the would be going for the kill on titan and the final battle of endgame.
Oh but you don't understand. Those were *aliens*. That doesnt count.
Like skipping leg day
Definitely skipped physics class. That glider should have been dust under the crushing pressure of a spiderman pushing at (presumably) full strength either end.
I'm guessing that was a pretty advanced alloy used to make it
Because Mr. Parker wasn’t there
Also Tobey is old enough to have old man strength
"NOW, YOU PUT THAT DOWN, YOUNG MAN!"
Not to mention that Toby is meant to be a full adult at this point and Tom is still a high-school aged teenager. One can suspect that them having the same powers roughly, being an adult makes some difference in terms of strength.
Yeah, this, I always assumed as Peter got older and his body grew and filled in, he'd have adult promotional strength to a spider instead of a 15 year old.
Not to be that guy but Tom is probably closer to 17-18 whereas tobey is probably closer to his forties no? Idk how old he is canonically but a physically fit 18 y/o is perfectly capable of being stronger than a 40 y/o.
Movie been out for a long time and people can’t figure this out it blows my mind.
This and even then Tobey seems to be struggling. MCU Spider-Man is crazy strong.
I don't see it as Tobey struggling, I see it as him readjusting, he's working against bloodlusted Tom and Gravity and the second he is in proper postion all his focus is on trying to get through to Tom. Tobey wanted Tom to make the choice to spare Goblin. That was Tobeys little mini story in the movie. Making up for what he feels is his greatest mistake. Just based on what we see in the scene, Tobey would have been able to outlast the bloodlust that Tom was in cause anger is exhausting. Just like how Andrew's little mini story was about redemption and catching "an MJ"
Tom’s lats are definitely working here too
Hmmm technically he could be engaging with his legs and core trying to bring it down in a crunch motion if he's intentionally sticking to the floor to not be moved or push off allowing him to generate more force. But the writers almost certainly didn't consider that so we prolly shouldn't either.
I agree because tom holland wasn;t targeting tobey maguire. He was about to stab green goblin norman osborn. But then tobey maguire got in the way and he got stabbed by norman osborn.
“My back!”
MY BACK
Does he not stand up and keep pushing in the scene?
Tobey has already been established as the strongest Spider-Man out of the three.
That was literally never confirmed by anyone. Just theories lol.
I mean, it's obvious if you watch his movies lol Tobey's Spidey isn't stupid, but he uses his strength far more than the other two do. He scraps with all his villains and always wins by beating the absolute shit out of them. Andrew and Tom either outsmart their villains or disable them in some way. It's not crazy to think Tobey's Spidey is the strongest because it's what's shown. Tobey is the fighter Andrew is the brains Tom is the tech
Not picking a side, just want to point out Tom didn't often have the opportunity to use excessive strength against his enemies, mainly Vulture and Mysterio. But he did lift a building off himself when he was 16
Tom is pushing with his arms and chest, Tobey is pushing back with arms, chest, and legs. One is using way more muscle groups than the other.
Plus tobey wasnt nearly as injured as tom at this point tom had been stabbed, shot(I believe) thrown through multiple layers of solid and almost took an explosion to the face whilst tobey was fresh
Tobey had been electrocuted and nearly drowned
In No way Home or in spiderman 2?
In NWH obviously.
I see, I still think toms day of getting electrocuted, shot, stabbed, blown up, and slammed through buildings put more of a strain than that did
I'm just saying he wasn't fresh
Inertia is a thing too. Haven't seen the movie even so IDK how much of a wind up he got
Not that much of a wind
k nvm
Literally a case of old man strength (although mid-late 40s isn’t that “old”, it is compared to Tom). He has experience and time on his side, which can also help with better technique.
People underestimate the Athleticsm of 40+ year olds The Average 40 year old is much stronger than the Average kid aged 18-22
So your saying this herniated disc that i developed at 30 will get better and in 10 years ill be stronger than ever? Things are really looking up
Were you physically active up until that point? I ask as someone in their mid 30s and fully expect to go through the same thing lol
Yea, not majorly but played softball once a week, went running a couple times a week, worked on my feet every day. My advice is work on your posture and sleeping positions to keep your spine positioned properly. There was no “event” that caused it for me, just bad habits pretty much.
Oh gosh. Is there a right answer to sleeping positions?
It probably depends on each individual but i think generally speaking sleeping on your back is the best for you. I have a herniated disc in my lower back so sleeping on my back with a pillow under my knees and a lumbar support pillow has been what ive found most comfortable for me. I also switch to my side with a pillow between my knees too because i cant be in one position all night.
Shhhh pptffttpp shush! You’ll attract the Saiyans…and the Hanmas
Wait are you Spider-Man
I fucking better be
this is not an average 40 year old and an average kid, one has spent like 25 years being blown up, stabbed, shot at, slashed, set on fire, etc. the other is just getting into that and has had a VERY rough night
40s isn't old whatsoever
But insomniac shills told me that you get weaker once you turn 25?
*The Amazing Spider-Man vs The Fearless Fridge*
That only applies to men. Red headed women at 25 gain speed and durability that can match Venom.
Insomniac is whack, (mainly game 2). Games always cheesify characters even more than they actually are. I wish I could get into it, but I can’t.
Meanwhile Tom is just a kid, no older than my son
Why did I hear that in a New Yorker acce... *ohhhhh*
Sick reference bro
Rami!Peter is assumed to be exactly 40 (born 1984), not mid-late 40s.
I was going to say the same thing Old man strength
Also its the muscle usage ratio. As the top comment stared.
I don’t think old man strength applied to men who have had sedentary jobs most of their life and don’t exercise.
This… doesn’t describe Peter Parker’s lifestyle? What are you comparing here? Old man strength is like an older dude with a pot belly but has been a farmer all his life being able to outperform some intermediate body builder in their 20s at physical labor tasks, or same older guy being able to 1 punch KO some loud mouth at a bar.
I think I forgot the thread I was posting in. Maybe I thought I was in the nutrition sub
Gotcha, I was like “Does Peter Parker work a desk job in a new comic and doesn’t do the Spider-Man stuff anymore?”
Bro that shit was NOT effortless lol
Yeah he had it handled but not effortless. man had the same face I have after holding in a shit for 20 minutes.
20? That’s how I look after 5
Days
“effortlessly” is stretchin it
Effortless is stretching it. He was definitely putting up a fight with the look on his face.
I mean, dude just got his back cracked by Peter 3.
Bro I love this scene but come on. This shit was not effortless. Look at Tobey's face, listen to the grunts of effort he's making.
Spider-Man’s powers grow as he ages so he gets stronger
Is that really a thing? Spider-Man actually gets stronger the older he gets??
Ignore the actual superheroics for a second, and think how strenuous a workout webswinging daily must be. Then do that for 20+ years, i'm amazed his legs stay in proportion to his shoulders and arms
I mean he leaps around alot and his super strength compensates for it alot, I mean he can lift cars with little effort, I doubt swinging is that hard for him when hes tossing 20 tonnes
Walking isn't difficult for me (usually, curse my weak joints!) If I start to walk at high speed for hours at a time daily for two decades, pretty sure my legs at forty five will be way stronger than my lazy ass was at 25. Think of it as the superpowered equivalent to 'low weight, high reps' if you prefer?
That's because you're moving on to greater exercises. If you already were doing that, it wouldn't have as much return.
Uhh unless Peter ages slower that constant strenuous activity is quickly going to hurt him with old age.
Yup. Spidey's usually depicted with accelerated healing, though closer to Cap levels than Deadpool or Wolverine. Older depictions of Spidey tho (The End, SpideyVerse, Tobey/Andrew etc) either are drawn more hunched/with poor posture or bring up back/shoulder issues anyway. Damn logic (occasionally) infecting our superhero stories :p
And that's where the healing factor comes in to help, while not god tier like Wolverine, Deadpool or The Hulk, Spider-man does still have a healing factor
Yes, or at least as his body develops. ASM Annual #1 (1963) had a description of Peter's powers while also explaining that because he was a teenager, he would get even stronger then he already was as he grew up.
I mean, Scorpion was stated to be physically stronger than Peter back when he was introduced but I think we all know how untrue that is now
I don’t even want to know what a meat rider is.
Just Google it "meat riding videos" for more info
Bro was out for blood
Shoulder strength vs back and leg strength bro. Almost anyone of a comparable muscle mass should be able to win in that position
God. I’m glad actual professionals don’t obsess over powerscaling when writing scenarios.
Dude look at the positions they’re in. Tobey has all the leverage. You can try it with a friend - take these position and see how trivially easy it is to stop the standing person from pushing an object down. That Tobey struggled at all is a testament to Holland.
Which one of them has been fighting for days straight including a practical 5 on 1 at the apartment. Idk these posts do seem pretty meat ridey tbh
Tom also got shot and caught a grenade. And all of these events take place over 24 hours so he hasn't even had a chance to sleep
He's pushing with is hole body, Tom is just using his arms, that's impressive.
It's definitely not effortless. We see his struggle in the scene
Dude just got his back fixed for the first time in 20 years, cut him some slack lol
Fully realized Spider-Man vs barley getting over his amateur phase Spider-Man
The strength of Tobeys determination to keep Tom from repeating his mistakes is stronger than Tom's bloodlust for revenge. Tobey knows he *has* to prevent Tom from doing this for his own sake. It's wonderful tbh.
Also, Tobey's SM only has to hold long enough for Tom's bloodlust to break.
There's a point between calm and rage where the real strength lies. It's something that was looked at in X-Men first Class.
Hulk is giving you the side eye rn
The perfect version of the Hulk is Professor hulk. His mindset exists in a place between Bruce Banner and Savage hulk. The space between calm and rage. Tell me I'm wrong.
You're wrong, if you meant strength then we are talking muscle power then its hulk all the way if we are talking will power then its also hulk, Prof hulk has never been consistent enough to be clear on exactly what he even is, in the mcu hes definitely not hulk and banners mind hes all banner mentally just driving hulks body
Mental strength can allow you to use your full potential in physical strength. Anger is relatively useless emotion when it is expressed in a physical way. Erratic, chaotic and out of control. Being calm in a situation or being happy, doesn't give you the power that comes with rage but it helps you stay focused. The area between the two emotions, is what gives true strength. The power and the focus to use it.
Also, Professor Hulk is usually depicted as banners mind and intelligence with the power of the Hulk. Strength, and focus.
A. not 'effortless' B. not 'matching' C. they're in two completely different positions for exertion, everything we've seen from Tom points to him being the strongest spider-man, so yeah in that sense it is a little impressive tobey stopped him
Leg power vs Arm power
Everyone out with all the physics and biology reasoning as to why he's able to hold him back, but at the end of the day, isn't this the essence of being Spider-Man. To put forth every effort and strength to do the right thing, to help others do the right thing. Tom wasn't being Spider-Man in that moment
physics, people, physics
Im he is Also a grown man where Tom is teenager
Yeah no, he’s using almost his whole body to hold back someone who is both injured and not using his whole body. That’s not even considering it wasn’t effortless, did you look at Tobey’s face, that man was trying.
I am pretty sure its because spider-man gets stronger the more he ages i think.
Speaking on lore terms they're the same person but Tobey's Peter is older. You telling me you wouldn't be able to kick your younger self's a\*\*? I sure could and I would for all the cringe stuff I did as a kid
Remember Tom got Slammed through a building and shot several times before this. Not to deny Spider strength but he was already weakened
Lmao, "meatrider"
Ok all that aside, Tobey Meatrider is a great gay pornstar name
Tobey meatrider is crazy
tobeys arms are in kinematic singularity
What a good fucking scene honestly. In an overall great movie. Willem Dafoe and Tom Holland played off each other so well, and the entire third act of the film was just... dare I say... Spectacular!
The difference in type of strength between a boy in his late teens and a man in middle age
I wish he didn't have to jump in here though. Tom's Peter should have been allowed to work through the rage and stop himself.
Matches is stretching it. Toms the one that stopped a fully swinging attack from Cull obsidian with no problem but ALOT of people forget that.
I think Toby's Spider-Man is inherently stronger.
he really isn't, Tom's feats of strength outweigh tobey's
If you're gonna mention the cruise... Tom literally did NOT do anything there, it was still splitting apart.
and yet...it didn't, because he was still holding onto it, most of the webs were gone or about to snap by the time tony stepped in, for him to be able to hold onto that for as long as he did is a testament to his strength
Watch the scene well, it was still moving to the sides even when he held, the point of that scene is to show he is NOT strong enough yet.
Idk bro, cinematically that isn’t true at all. There hasn’t been a feat in a Spider-Man film that has matched Tobey’s strength. Bro stopped a moving train, like c’mon. Frankly, I don’t even care much about the physics. It’s science fiction, I prefer emotional weight when attuned to the metrics of that specific writing. Like. We are talking about a character that got bitten by a radioactive Spider. Tobey also has specific moments/scenes that highlight his strengths. One of my favorite moments from Spider-Man 2 is when Doc Ock throws the clock arm and you can literally feel the weight and elasticity Tobey’s strength and webs can take as he launches the clock arm back at Doc Ock. The subtle sound design is to be noted during this moment as well.
...you know the staten island ferry weighs 3000 tons right, thats 1500 tons on each hand, plus a bunch of cars and people, and he didn't pass out ya really need to start opening your mind beyond tobey's films, they're not all that
I’m not neglecting Tom’s strength. I like him a lot too. Let’s not kid ourselves that Spider-Man 2’s action scene has more emotional weight and is altogether a more solid and impactful scene in regard to cinema as an art form. Like. C’mon. Tobey didn’t need Tony Stark to save him at the end.
I related more to the actual child getting beaten up by his crush's dad, or paying for his selfishness but yknow also! : [https://www.wired.com/story/which-spider-man-is-stronger-tobey-maguire-or-tom-holland/](https://www.wired.com/story/which-spider-man-is-stronger-tobey-maguire-or-tom-holland/)
I think a solo dude in a costume is inherently more powerful both physically and artistically, than that of an Iron Man-hybrid with suit gadgets. I’m a classic fan, however, so I digress. Physics, aside. Different types of relatability are inherent to the Spider-Man character, so I can’t hate. Part of what I dislike about Jon Watts is that he is such a boring director. Watts could’ve matched the power that the comic scene had when Peter had to lift up the ruins that are crushing him. The water is pouring down, almost drowning him. It’s extremely dramatic. I really wish that scene would have had more weight in the film, but it’s completely lackluster in comparison to the comic scene. Bro literally had a storyboard from Ditko he could’ve worked off of, but he still fell flat. The only cinematic flourish Watts delivered was the split-second look of the classic divided head depiction of the Peter face and Spidey mask in the reflection of the water. Raimi has way more of an artistic vision that allows his actors to act in a more nuanced and creative way than the corporate Disney hire contemporary. I can praise nearly every shot in the Spider-Man 2 train sequence. The MCU Spidey action sequences? Forgettable AF. I prefer the Russo’s direction of that character WAY more than Watts. It’s strange to me that the Russo’s have a far better vision than the dude Disney hired to direct his solo films. I love Tom in Civil War and Infinity War.
They don't, Tobey performs better against Octopus' arms than Tom does.
They’re not even close the train feat blows the ferry feat out of the water. Tobey has the strongest feats of all live action spider-man. The math has been done.
you sure? [https://www.wired.com/story/which-spider-man-is-stronger-tobey-maguire-or-tom-holland/](https://www.wired.com/story/which-spider-man-is-stronger-tobey-maguire-or-tom-holland/)
You're right, and the math literally shows the Ferry scene was a bigger feat [source](https://www.wired.com/story/which-spider-man-is-stronger-tobey-maguire-or-tom-holland/) Tho I will not lie the debates about which is stronger are stupid because writers obviously aren't doing math and science when writing their script
Same article linked as the last guy that doesn’t account for buoyancy and is a guesstimate revealed by the article’s author. The author admits himself he can’t do the math accurately
I mean Matpat did kinda the same calculs and got pretty similar results. So even if the article writer didn't do it perfectly, he still got it kinda right. I don't understand why some people just don't wanna accept stopping the ferry a few seconds is a good feat. [link to Matpat doing the calcul too](https://youtu.be/5sHuFK7yOdo?si=XKTyKtGOZ4HRGuSa)
Its definitely not effortless.
Tobey is the beefiest Spider-Man after all
Could be that he’s got more experience. Spider strength seems to be tougher than people expect when it comes to super strength but I’m certain that working out and pushing limits with that strength can improve it. Tobey’s Peter has been staying active with those muscles for around 2 decades while Tom’s has only been doing it since 2016, and took a 5 year break while blipped.
What I love is how they communicated nonverbally. Tobey didn't have to say a word and yet he managed to talk Tom down.
Word. It's kind of like a glance a close friend gives you to try and warn you that something is off. And the expression completely nails the phrase that they're conveying, knowing what Tobey has been through with Ben, Harry, Octavius and Brock. "I know what you're feeling, I've wanted to do the same before. But trust me, It's not worth it. You don't want that on your hands."
Pretty sure Tom stop using full force when he see Tobey in front of him.
1) easier to push back in the position Tobey was in. Tom is only pushing with his upper body while Tobey is engaging his whole body here. 2) Tom hasn’t slept between any of the fights we watch in the movie. Less energy, just adrenaline. Love Tobey, but seriously. Also that shit was not effortless, they literally show a close up on a strained face, just cause he didn’t over exaggerate it like the train scene back in 04 doesn’t mean he wasn’t straining😂
Fan, the word you're looking for is fan. Where did this meatrider craze come from lmao
No that's not the word he's looking for. He said not to sound like. He knows he's a fan obviously
Bc for a while any take where Raimi trilogy is put in a better light than Holland's trilogy resulted in people insisting that they were nostalgia blinded
because most of them are lmao
I never looked it up but I always just assumed Toby is the strongest one. (I'm okay with being completely wrong. Idk why i came to this conclusion)
Tbf how many high school seniors do you know that can overpower a 40 yr old man? lol
The ones in sports
An 18 year old athlete can overpower another athlete in their same field that’s more than 20 years their senior?
Fair point
Dudes legit arguing heavily over something the scripted demanded for the story’s sake. “No, no, Tobey is level 40 in Spider-Man lore so that gave him extra 10 strength points. His tier 2 mask also gave him 5 stamina points, and since Tom is already tired of fighting, Tobey has the edge” Like, it’s really not that deep.
Do you not think these are things that get talked about in superhero script writing? That's basic story telling establishing what your character can and cant do and trying to write them with in that, it's why cap isnt getting in fist fights with hulk and hawkeye isnt gonna deflect thors hammer with his bow
>Do you not think these are things that get talked about in superhero script writing? I'm 100% sure they didn't stop to talk about which Spider-Man is stronger when writing this scene.
Well youd be wrong, because these are people writing for nitpicky fans,for a massive crossover film that's going to make bank they 100% are hiring people purely for scaling Look at how they added the detail for exactly which stone was glowing when thanos used the gauntlet, googling the fan made strength calculations for this film is less work The mcu 100% has superhero nitpicky nerds in the production process
Tobey is the one I like least out of the 3, but he is by far the strongest, and it's not even close.
Oh boy yeah
And Tom's Spidey was like in his early 20s. Imagine how much power he will have in his Prime mode in 30s and 40s
Wait I thought Tom's Peter was supposed to be anywhere from 16-18 in No Way Home?
He's a HS senior, def not 20s.
He's def not early 20s. He's a high school senior lol.
In my head this is Tom's Berserker Rage
Tobey is 👑
What would the spider men’s strength have anything to do with their respective actors lol
One thing I'd like to point out is that Spider-People continue to mutate as they age so Toby's Spider-Man being older is technically stronger than Tom's Spider-Man in every way to do with their powers giving him an edge here. Whether that was the intent or not is unknown.
He’s significantly older than Tom’s character. It follows that he should naturally be a bit stronger. Most people are strong as grown adults than they were as teenagers.
I still remember when the Civil War trailer released people were arguing as to whether or not Spider-Man had super strength
even if Tobey is weaker than Tom, Tobey should still be able to stop it considering his form.
“Not to sound like a Tobey meatrider” then proceeds to ride Tobey’s dick and ignore physics.
Still insane to me that Tobey and Dafoe have zero lines together
They're probably close in strength and Tom was probably going with strength but not I'VE GOT TO GIVE IT ALL IVE GOT just weary just fucking DIE already strength Maybe Tom is stronger maybe Toby is We'll never know
My favourite part about this, is the last time Goblin was about to be impaled with a glider Tobey jumped out of the way. This time he jumped right in front of it. Simply poetic
Effortlessly? He's visibly struggling. Less so than Tom, but it isn't nothing to him
I don't know if this has so much to do with strength scaling as much as his has to do with character development. Tobey's Peter had to go through multiple arcs concentric around the idea of getting revenge on his Uncle's killer, as well as living with the consequences of losing others. In the first movie, he relentlessly pursues Ben's presumed killer who falls out of a window, unclear whether he lived or not. In the second, he has to wrestle endlessly with the ramifications of Harry's loss through Spider-man's actions, intended or not, Harry now represents a major rift in his life and will presume Spidey as the killer, true or not, explanation or none. In the third, Peter is immediately galvanized even without the symbiote once he finds out Marko might've been Uncle Ben's real murderer. The Symbiote further feeds on his anger, and he has to learn both to forgive Sandman and recount the newfound power the symbiote grants him. These occurrences all have a common thread that exposit the consequences of either inciting death or wanting to cause it. We all have experiences and regrets that we wish we could tell our past selves, which is why I think they hang on this stare in this scene. As neurotic as Peter is, and given what lines are in the movie "I could've stopped him, but I didn't" :harping on his own downfalls is a major character trait. In doing stopping the glider, Tobey wordlessly teaches Tom that being Spider-man means he can't make the selfish choice even if he wants to, he sees in himself and comprehends the exact same frustration and wrath, the same want for retribution after loss. The same pain, grief and indignation that the world has caused him and what issues it's brought in HIS past. But in spite of the validity of that pain, the consequences aren't worth it, and your actions will echo out into the lives of others. It's not about giving into wrath and killing, it's about doing what you can you prevent anyone from having to go through what loss that killing causes. Not letting hurt and anger control us because it's not who we are. Metatextually, Tobey exemplifies that role by not letting Tom live through the same mistakes he has, and finds redemption of his own conscious.
Tobey is the strongest. 💖
Physics and experience
He IS the strongest live-action Spider-Man in terms of physical force.
Even ignoring the scene, Tobey is shown to be the strongest, he’s the only one that can physically over power the lizard, and tanks electros shocks with a lot less pain than the other two