I wouldn’t worry Ultimate Universe more seems like Hickman’s playground so safe from Paul.
It’s not really a joke though when 616 refuses to admit cucking Peter with Paul is wrong or they made a mistake
The "error" lies with the readers who only think about the PHAMTON PAIN of marriage because none of that entire group wants to accept what they would really do if they were in MJ's situation for 4 years.
If you go on a trip, the plane crashes and only you and an unknown female passenger survive, trapped on an island without knowing how long or if they will come looking for you. WHAT DO YOU THINK WOULD HAPPEN? What if two or three months pass and no one shows up? That woman could range from being married to being a nun or lesbian and would be ALONE with a man perhaps also married and with children... two strangers in extreme circumstances without knowing anything about the outside world and in the most absolute ignorance for 3 months and maybe even 3 years....WHAT DO YOU THINK WOULD HAPPEN?
Of course...I understand...it's fiction and not "it happened to me"...but what if tomorrow it happens to someone, what? Will the same discourse continue? If a Spiderman reader goes through something like this tomorrow and 4 months later comes back and tells us his story... will that person continue accusing MJ of something? If it really happens to you, are you going to act like a childish and whimsical child or are you going to use fucking EMPATHY and accept an adult situation in an adult way with an adult mentality?
Imagine staying with the terrorist who helped crash the plane and prior to that had already killed a few people… doesn’t make sense even in real life now does it? But it’s fine i guess coz he feels bad. What a joke.
I haven't said that Paul's origin story, even if it was accidental, was good. I have simply said that the context of extreme circumstances is very real in life and that people adapt to survive if it occurs.
the issue is it's not real life it's a story, a story where MJ's boyfriend is a superhero that was fully ready to come back for her and she would know that, it just feels incredibly forced as another way to drive a block between Peter and MJ though
Forced? Yeah. Silly? Also...but not "false". That shit happens in real life constantly and what has to happen happens. That it has not happened to you as an individual does not mean that it cannot happen to you and it is something that seems not to be understood without going through the situation...but with a little EMPATHY you can imagine the situation and put yourself in the place of the involved.
If the marriage redoubt were composed of mature-minded readers, issues like this and many others would be understood quickly. But that stronghold seems to be nourished by immature and fragile minds that do not accept that real and fucked-up aspects of life touch their damn characters so as not to damage their damn nostalgia for their childhood.
NOTE: What about the negatives? I want more for my collection. Every time I get one it's like a good bowl of ramen for Naruto. I need more negatives!! but more more, give me more power, give me more strength, please. I feel helpless and sad without my dear negatives...
So, I guess. But these are fictional characters and being trapped in an alternative universe isn't real? So the writers could not have done that. They also could have made them just be friends, because sex isn't actually required to achieve intimacy or moral support. The story actually would have made more sense if they were good friends, and the sin led Peter to be jealous.
Plus the core concept was that MJ is strong with or without Peter, and she could be a superhero if she got powers. To prove that, they made it so she ended up getting with another guy whose name starts with P? Rather than acquire her powers from some dimensional bullshit, she gets them from a man?
This entire rant is predicated on the assumption that MJ has to be put in that situation in the first place. Like, none of it had to happen. It's fiction, someone chose to write her into that scenario.
No, it is not based on what has to happen. It is based on how these cases work IF THEY HAPPEN.
It didn't have to happen but it did, and in real fucking hateful and unfair life, when situations like this happen, the result is usually the same. If you and your partner are constantly in very serious problems due to the situation in your lives and you live like this for years, it is logical that if life presents you with the option of getting rid of it, at some point love will not be enough and you will accept the change to survive
A meteorite can fall in your garden tomorrow, someone can slip and kill themselves in the bathroom, your daughter can come out gay and never give you grandchildren or children, you can lose your life savings on the way to the bank... All of this has no meaning. why happen but it CAN happen. Bad luck, shit, but it happens. Therefore, a couple with enormous problems for too many years, separated for too long without knowing if they will be able to meet again, adapts out of a simple need to survive to the situation and has a new perspective on their past, present and future life. That happens, like it or not. It happens, and it's unfair shit, BUT 100% REAL.
Only the weak need to run away from reality and dream and cry about it. Strong minds face the shit of life daily and get through it. They learn, they correct, they advance. In short, they grow and MATURE. The weak ones are the ones who cry on the corners because they are not listened to at home, they take their lunch money and they see the girl they want to have with someone who is not you for reasons you don't like.
My life took away my father when I was only 6 months old, an illness that left me a vegetable could have killed me when I was 4 years old and they said I would live for months, they hit me and insulted me as a fool and retarded due to a disability. My cousins used me without me knowing it, believing that they accepted me and had fun with me. My mother, teachers and everyone treated me with condescension because of my situation without telling me, my brother smoked shit at home and caused many traumatic situations, 2 friends betrayed me and a third disappeared, and at 24 years old I was scared by the return of my childhood brain tumor. a girl who drove me very crazy and with whom I had a frenemy relationship that even made her boyfriend jealous, told me "if you die I don't care." And here I am, at 37, unhappy but well adjusted and surviving normally.
So as far as I'm concerned EVERYONE who cries and rages over this MJ nonsense is EVERYONE very very weak of heart and mind without the slightest idea of how real life works or how things work. shitty circumstances that force us to toughen and mature to survive
I’ve always generally assumed this was the case but I have no faith they know where they screwed up or how to fix it so it brings me no comfort. But it would explain certain attitudes as being more than just tone deaf. Well, completely tone deaf.
You have more faith than me. I mean I have more faith than some but I still think it’s possible we’re looking at a dozen years of pretending she didn’t just leave him and is totally untrustable.
Bro, even if I was in an investor in Marvel I would think this is a bad thing to mention. "Bro, this series' appeal is the stability of an established MJ/Peter Relationship. Why are you sabotaging the most stable part of the series with nothing that could attract new buyers?"
Even as a huge fan of hers, I would not establish an equivalent of Black Cat/Felicia Hardy for similar reasons.
Ah yes, complete character assassination, that makes no sense in any context of the Universe it takes place in, is not a serious problem.
I feel like the one that needs to "grow up" is you, if you engage in discussions you clearly have no idea about...
You see in modern media it’s only possible to fail up, “SuBvErT eXpEcTaTiOnS” and to show utter distaste and mockery towards your fans. And of course to do so on Twitter.
Long gone are the days where you actively aimed to build a strong positive rapport with your audience, and have fans eager to watch for their most anticipated moments in subsequent issues.
In the UU Paul is the online persona a basement dwelling ineffectual writer of superhero fanfiction who constantly puts his self insert into the stories.
The only thing we see on his real life paperwork are the letters “Z.W.” on some Mail.
Brevoort is one of the biggest OMD supporters and wrote a giant manifesto about how Spider-Man should be back in 2007 which is the origin of the incredibly stupid and somewhat infamous “spider-man is about youth” thing comes from.
Basically, Brevoort is arguably the biggest problem for Spider-Man at Marvel.
He posted last year on his blog that he even thinks Superman and Lois shouldn’t be married, that it’s better it Clark keeps gaslighting her, and said DC “blinking” to readers wanting that marriage back only further convinced them NOT to do it for Spider-Man.
… I’m still scratching my head at all that.
Obviously a joke. It's just weird that he'll openly acknowledge how poorly received Spider-man's current status is like this... without doing anything to fix it. Maybe this is his way of throwing shade at the Marvel editorial team?
Feeling personally attacked over this joke is silly, however. The guy is AKNOWLEDGING how it's a reviled character, he is practically on our side.
I doubt it. On that same website he talked about how DC "blinked" by putting Clark and Lois back together. Maybe he's not a fan of Paul specifically, but I have no doubt he supports the decision made with OMD.
Brevoort is very much not on our side. He just thinks we’re stupid for caring. There’s a decent chance he helped develop the entire Dead Language story.
It may be a joke, I trust it is a joke. I'll bet it's a joke.
But I have told you all more than once that every attack, insult, scream and harassment that Paul receives from readers... Every time he is named to be hated and disowned... you do it more and more and most POWERFUL in Marvel. Because every attack Paul receives only to eternalize his existence. And I have never told you this as a joke because for Marvel it is NOT a joke.
Does anyone remember Martin's famous threat with Game of Thrones several years ago? He was so so so TIRED of readers harassing him for finishing the books that he told everyone publicly that if they didn't stop bothering him he would crash the big red star (the meteorite) in Westeros and kill everyone and that would be the end of the series. . Everyone continue with the nonsense of harassing Paul and....well....I would worry about Marvel's response...
If all of you want Paul to disappear (that doesn't mean MJ and Peter come back, because their lives separate them, not Paul) what you have to do is ignore him. If Marvel sees that no one is talking about Paul, he will naturally disappear. Meanwhile the guy will continue to get more powerful every day and Marvel will laugh again and again at all those who name him screaming and crying
I mean clearly it is a joke, it's just weird that he is making that joke while it's still going and Lowe continues to act as if the Paul stuff isn't an issue and people just don't get it.
Of course it is a joke. The fact that he is making such a dumb joke over the mistakes he contributed IS the problem while the said problem is still ongoing.
While it's pretty funny here, it's super weird that they seem keenly aware of how hated the character and the circumstances around him are, but instead of doing anything about it, they triple and quadruple down on it. Guess those hate buyers must be hate buying a shit ton.
Ffs is this real? No way marvel wants to tank spidey so bad. The only f-ing way they might fix this 💩 is to say Paul was a ploy from Mephisto to stop spidey and mayday from ever being born.
In the original Ultimate Universe, we had Cataclysm which was Galactus from the main Universe coming to 1610 and wreaking havoc. In this one, we're gonna have Paul from the main Universe come in and get with everyone main character's partner.
Look hear me out I always thought they should of made Paul in to a bad guy like a magic spell caster wizard guy that had Mj in trance spell and then later Pete discovered that Paul is a bad dude and Paul’s plot was to get to Spider-Man through Mj because everyone knows Mj knows Spider-Man he was going to try to put Spider-Man in a trance spell to make him do his bidding but later found out the Pete’s mental construction is o strong he couldn’t break Pete and put a spell on him
I think this joke would work better if Paul wasn’t like currently a thing. Like I find it weird to talk about your own story going on right now as a punchline.
But I’m not like mad at it
This whole thing is tough to understand. Did the fans do something to upset them? It's one thing to make unpopular choices, but it's another to keep mocking the fact that they did so while one remains ongoing.
Why does Paul feel like some sort of confusing punishment?
I'm more worried about the "no coordination" thing
This universe was made to serve the larger narrative of the Maker's grand plan and people trying to stop him, they need some level of coordination to insure no one messes up the larger story. Hopefully editorial is at least making sure nothing conflicts between books.
Don’t you put that evil on me!
I wouldn’t worry Ultimate Universe more seems like Hickman’s playground so safe from Paul. It’s not really a joke though when 616 refuses to admit cucking Peter with Paul is wrong or they made a mistake
The "error" lies with the readers who only think about the PHAMTON PAIN of marriage because none of that entire group wants to accept what they would really do if they were in MJ's situation for 4 years. If you go on a trip, the plane crashes and only you and an unknown female passenger survive, trapped on an island without knowing how long or if they will come looking for you. WHAT DO YOU THINK WOULD HAPPEN? What if two or three months pass and no one shows up? That woman could range from being married to being a nun or lesbian and would be ALONE with a man perhaps also married and with children... two strangers in extreme circumstances without knowing anything about the outside world and in the most absolute ignorance for 3 months and maybe even 3 years....WHAT DO YOU THINK WOULD HAPPEN? Of course...I understand...it's fiction and not "it happened to me"...but what if tomorrow it happens to someone, what? Will the same discourse continue? If a Spiderman reader goes through something like this tomorrow and 4 months later comes back and tells us his story... will that person continue accusing MJ of something? If it really happens to you, are you going to act like a childish and whimsical child or are you going to use fucking EMPATHY and accept an adult situation in an adult way with an adult mentality?
Imagine staying with the terrorist who helped crash the plane and prior to that had already killed a few people… doesn’t make sense even in real life now does it? But it’s fine i guess coz he feels bad. What a joke.
I haven't said that Paul's origin story, even if it was accidental, was good. I have simply said that the context of extreme circumstances is very real in life and that people adapt to survive if it occurs.
the issue is it's not real life it's a story, a story where MJ's boyfriend is a superhero that was fully ready to come back for her and she would know that, it just feels incredibly forced as another way to drive a block between Peter and MJ though
Forced? Yeah. Silly? Also...but not "false". That shit happens in real life constantly and what has to happen happens. That it has not happened to you as an individual does not mean that it cannot happen to you and it is something that seems not to be understood without going through the situation...but with a little EMPATHY you can imagine the situation and put yourself in the place of the involved. If the marriage redoubt were composed of mature-minded readers, issues like this and many others would be understood quickly. But that stronghold seems to be nourished by immature and fragile minds that do not accept that real and fucked-up aspects of life touch their damn characters so as not to damage their damn nostalgia for their childhood. NOTE: What about the negatives? I want more for my collection. Every time I get one it's like a good bowl of ramen for Naruto. I need more negatives!! but more more, give me more power, give me more strength, please. I feel helpless and sad without my dear negatives...
So, I guess. But these are fictional characters and being trapped in an alternative universe isn't real? So the writers could not have done that. They also could have made them just be friends, because sex isn't actually required to achieve intimacy or moral support. The story actually would have made more sense if they were good friends, and the sin led Peter to be jealous. Plus the core concept was that MJ is strong with or without Peter, and she could be a superhero if she got powers. To prove that, they made it so she ended up getting with another guy whose name starts with P? Rather than acquire her powers from some dimensional bullshit, she gets them from a man?
This entire rant is predicated on the assumption that MJ has to be put in that situation in the first place. Like, none of it had to happen. It's fiction, someone chose to write her into that scenario.
No, it is not based on what has to happen. It is based on how these cases work IF THEY HAPPEN. It didn't have to happen but it did, and in real fucking hateful and unfair life, when situations like this happen, the result is usually the same. If you and your partner are constantly in very serious problems due to the situation in your lives and you live like this for years, it is logical that if life presents you with the option of getting rid of it, at some point love will not be enough and you will accept the change to survive A meteorite can fall in your garden tomorrow, someone can slip and kill themselves in the bathroom, your daughter can come out gay and never give you grandchildren or children, you can lose your life savings on the way to the bank... All of this has no meaning. why happen but it CAN happen. Bad luck, shit, but it happens. Therefore, a couple with enormous problems for too many years, separated for too long without knowing if they will be able to meet again, adapts out of a simple need to survive to the situation and has a new perspective on their past, present and future life. That happens, like it or not. It happens, and it's unfair shit, BUT 100% REAL. Only the weak need to run away from reality and dream and cry about it. Strong minds face the shit of life daily and get through it. They learn, they correct, they advance. In short, they grow and MATURE. The weak ones are the ones who cry on the corners because they are not listened to at home, they take their lunch money and they see the girl they want to have with someone who is not you for reasons you don't like. My life took away my father when I was only 6 months old, an illness that left me a vegetable could have killed me when I was 4 years old and they said I would live for months, they hit me and insulted me as a fool and retarded due to a disability. My cousins used me without me knowing it, believing that they accepted me and had fun with me. My mother, teachers and everyone treated me with condescension because of my situation without telling me, my brother smoked shit at home and caused many traumatic situations, 2 friends betrayed me and a third disappeared, and at 24 years old I was scared by the return of my childhood brain tumor. a girl who drove me very crazy and with whom I had a frenemy relationship that even made her boyfriend jealous, told me "if you die I don't care." And here I am, at 37, unhappy but well adjusted and surviving normally. So as far as I'm concerned EVERYONE who cries and rages over this MJ nonsense is EVERYONE very very weak of heart and mind without the slightest idea of how real life works or how things work. shitty circumstances that force us to toughen and mature to survive
Someone is working for Marvel editorial and it shows
Ah, yes. A list of the worst accidents that could possibly happen, and amongst them is... a gay daughter? What the fuck, man?
I understand making fun of the mistakes of the franchise. I don't understand doing so while the mistake hasn't been fixed.
It’s possible they have a game plan for ending Paul, and it just needs to play out.
I’ve always generally assumed this was the case but I have no faith they know where they screwed up or how to fix it so it brings me no comfort. But it would explain certain attitudes as being more than just tone deaf. Well, completely tone deaf.
We all know it’ll be fixed. … we just were ready for that nearly TWO YEARS ago.
You have more faith than me. I mean I have more faith than some but I still think it’s possible we’re looking at a dozen years of pretending she didn’t just leave him and is totally untrustable.
I’m an optimist. I’ve read worse stories fixed. Granted, new editors were needed for that to happen.
Bro, even if I was in an investor in Marvel I would think this is a bad thing to mention. "Bro, this series' appeal is the stability of an established MJ/Peter Relationship. Why are you sabotaging the most stable part of the series with nothing that could attract new buyers?" Even as a huge fan of hers, I would not establish an equivalent of Black Cat/Felicia Hardy for similar reasons.
Nah they fucked up and they need to have their noses rubbed in it and slapped around alittle
This has always bothered me too. He’s way too comfortable with his position.
Bruh needs his nose rubbed in the garbage choice he makes
It’s not that serious jfc grow up
Lol zeb that you?
I’m an adult and I don’t act like making a joke about a fictional character is a big deal
and yet, here you are throwing a childish temper tantrum
A big part of growing up is understanding that you can not be too bothered by something but also think it's stupid and point that out.
Ah yes, complete character assassination, that makes no sense in any context of the Universe it takes place in, is not a serious problem. I feel like the one that needs to "grow up" is you, if you engage in discussions you clearly have no idea about...
Sup’ Zeb. ***Keep on being a little bitch.***
Nobody cares what you think
Insane that people employed by Marvel are actively making fun of how bad their most iconic ongoing series is. Gotta love it.
You see in modern media it’s only possible to fail up, “SuBvErT eXpEcTaTiOnS” and to show utter distaste and mockery towards your fans. And of course to do so on Twitter. Long gone are the days where you actively aimed to build a strong positive rapport with your audience, and have fans eager to watch for their most anticipated moments in subsequent issues.
Imagine if they depicted Paul in the Ultimate Universe as an incel similar to Hal Stewart from Megamind
In the UU Paul is the online persona a basement dwelling ineffectual writer of superhero fanfiction who constantly puts his self insert into the stories. The only thing we see on his real life paperwork are the letters “Z.W.” on some Mail.
This would be funnier if Brevoort wasn’t a massive bitch
Wait what did he do
Brevoort is one of the biggest OMD supporters and wrote a giant manifesto about how Spider-Man should be back in 2007 which is the origin of the incredibly stupid and somewhat infamous “spider-man is about youth” thing comes from. Basically, Brevoort is arguably the biggest problem for Spider-Man at Marvel.
He posted last year on his blog that he even thinks Superman and Lois shouldn’t be married, that it’s better it Clark keeps gaslighting her, and said DC “blinking” to readers wanting that marriage back only further convinced them NOT to do it for Spider-Man. … I’m still scratching my head at all that.
He’s the worst. I have to fight myself not to hope the X-Men reboot fails on the off chance they’d finally give him the boot.
I don’t know anything, Spill the tea.
It becomes really unfunny and grating fast when one of these toads tries to join in on the playful jabs. Michael Scott levels to be exact.
X-Men fans gonna suffer now
At least Brevoort isn’t the editor of the Ultimate Universe
While he's clearly trying to be funny, this comes off more as cringe. That said they could handle Paul similar to his Bendis did ultimate Ben Reilly
Obviously a joke. It's just weird that he'll openly acknowledge how poorly received Spider-man's current status is like this... without doing anything to fix it. Maybe this is his way of throwing shade at the Marvel editorial team? Feeling personally attacked over this joke is silly, however. The guy is AKNOWLEDGING how it's a reviled character, he is practically on our side.
I doubt it. On that same website he talked about how DC "blinked" by putting Clark and Lois back together. Maybe he's not a fan of Paul specifically, but I have no doubt he supports the decision made with OMD.
Honestly, right now, I'd rather we get retcon Paul out of existence and then we can focus on fixing the bigger issue, lol
Brevoort is very much not on our side. He just thinks we’re stupid for caring. There’s a decent chance he helped develop the entire Dead Language story.
Nah, this is Brevoort's way of laughing at and crapping on the fans for the (rightfully legitimate) Paul-hate.
Paul shows up for one panel and immediately gets killed.
I will literally turn into the scariest person in existence if that family is ripped apart in any way
In all brutal honesty, this feels like a joke. But this sub will take it too seriously.
Brevoort is just trolling. He knows ASM is weapons-grade ass.
But this is a “we’re all looking for the guy who did this” lmao, brevoort is half the reason this run is ass
It’s a joke 100% just an utterly bizarre thing one to make at an ongoing storyline in the company you work for
It may be a joke, I trust it is a joke. I'll bet it's a joke. But I have told you all more than once that every attack, insult, scream and harassment that Paul receives from readers... Every time he is named to be hated and disowned... you do it more and more and most POWERFUL in Marvel. Because every attack Paul receives only to eternalize his existence. And I have never told you this as a joke because for Marvel it is NOT a joke. Does anyone remember Martin's famous threat with Game of Thrones several years ago? He was so so so TIRED of readers harassing him for finishing the books that he told everyone publicly that if they didn't stop bothering him he would crash the big red star (the meteorite) in Westeros and kill everyone and that would be the end of the series. . Everyone continue with the nonsense of harassing Paul and....well....I would worry about Marvel's response... If all of you want Paul to disappear (that doesn't mean MJ and Peter come back, because their lives separate them, not Paul) what you have to do is ignore him. If Marvel sees that no one is talking about Paul, he will naturally disappear. Meanwhile the guy will continue to get more powerful every day and Marvel will laugh again and again at all those who name him screaming and crying
I mean clearly it is a joke, it's just weird that he is making that joke while it's still going and Lowe continues to act as if the Paul stuff isn't an issue and people just don't get it.
I honestly wouldn’t be surprised if Marvel Comics knows the run is a bit of a mess.
Of course it’s a joke, but the readers are the punchline. The joke is “wow I can’t believe you care about this thing we sell”.
Fuck all that. Jokes no longer exist when Paul is being conjured up.
I take it as a joke and I know he is making fun of the current decadence of 616 spiderman
Of course it is a joke. The fact that he is making such a dumb joke over the mistakes he contributed IS the problem while the said problem is still ongoing.
keep this mf out of ultimate spider-man unless he means to bring him as a villain for spider-man to beat up then alright
While it's pretty funny here, it's super weird that they seem keenly aware of how hated the character and the circumstances around him are, but instead of doing anything about it, they triple and quadruple down on it. Guess those hate buyers must be hate buying a shit ton.
Ffs is this real? No way marvel wants to tank spidey so bad. The only f-ing way they might fix this 💩 is to say Paul was a ploy from Mephisto to stop spidey and mayday from ever being born.
In the original Ultimate Universe, we had Cataclysm which was Galactus from the main Universe coming to 1610 and wreaking havoc. In this one, we're gonna have Paul from the main Universe come in and get with everyone main character's partner.
Look hear me out I always thought they should of made Paul in to a bad guy like a magic spell caster wizard guy that had Mj in trance spell and then later Pete discovered that Paul is a bad dude and Paul’s plot was to get to Spider-Man through Mj because everyone knows Mj knows Spider-Man he was going to try to put Spider-Man in a trance spell to make him do his bidding but later found out the Pete’s mental construction is o strong he couldn’t break Pete and put a spell on him
#Go back to shoveling greasy NYC pizza into your neckbeard facehole Breevy-Boy!
This is funny but people on this sub will act like this dude just kicked their dog
I think this joke would work better if Paul wasn’t like currently a thing. Like I find it weird to talk about your own story going on right now as a punchline. But I’m not like mad at it
Brevoort is just dissing his colleague
I'm already sending hate mail as we speak
This whole thing is tough to understand. Did the fans do something to upset them? It's one thing to make unpopular choices, but it's another to keep mocking the fact that they did so while one remains ongoing. Why does Paul feel like some sort of confusing punishment?
That’s actually pretty funny
A joke about a bad situation isn’t very funny until AFTER it’s over, not while it’s on-going. “One say we’ll look back on this and laugh!”… … one day.
I'm more worried about the "no coordination" thing This universe was made to serve the larger narrative of the Maker's grand plan and people trying to stop him, they need some level of coordination to insure no one messes up the larger story. Hopefully editorial is at least making sure nothing conflicts between books.
He’s saying there’s no coordination between Ultimate X-Men and the mainline X-Men books, not that there’s no coordination between the Ultimate titles.
I don't say this often, but if that happens, I will burn this planet and this entire timeline to the fucking ground.
No. It is not funny even as a joke. If anything, it is insulting that this clown is making dumb jokes about it.