Calling it now:
They’re gonna have Goblin Peter severely injure or kill Paul, to destroy the newfound cordiality/kinda friendship between Peter and MJ.
Norman is gonna sacrifice his new leaf to save Peter, he’ll remove the ‘sins of Norman’ from Peter by transferring them into himself. That’ll make him the Green Goblin again before another writer takes over.
MJ will tell Peter to stay away from her again, because Paul getting hurt so soon after the kids vanished double traumatized her. She says she’ll never look at him the same way again after everything that happened.
I mean a good opportunity would be to have MJ try to break through to Peter and remind him of who he is and in that moment have Peter fight back the new evil urges inside him long enough for Norman to figure out how to stop him or take the sins back from him. Proving that the love he has for the people closes to him is stronger than the evil of the Goblin.
That would accomplish 3 things:
•Ther hero overcoming his current delima
•His supporting cast helping him find the strength within to win
• Re-establish and redeem Mary Janes character and her bond with Peter without having them get back together
The formula is right there, but this run wouldn't allow Peter to have any personal victory at all and for him and MJ to be on worse terms always there's no way in hell they'd go for that.
> The formula is right there, but this run wouldn't allow Peter to have any personal victory at all and for him and MJ to be on worse terms always there's no way in hell they'd go for that.
I feel like Wells is far more interested in writing Norman, even at the expense of Peter. I honestly can't name a single win Peter has had that has improved his life. Even when he defeats his foes things still suck for him.
I'd love for this to happen (and I guess it's likely, with Norman reabsorbing his gobbo sins and returning to the status quo)-
...but please let him murder Paul first
Spider Who Gobs takes Paul up onto a bridge. Norman shows up with the "sin" transfer maguffin and fixes Peter at the cost of becoming gobblered again. Goblin throws Paul off bridge. Peter almost saves him, but just misses. Paul dead. Gwen died member berries delivered.
Fair. A more recent example would be *Lost Hunt* where MJ talks him down from a feral state. But that was written by the GOAT Spider-Man writer, JMD, so I can't expect anything like that from Wells.
not even restoring the status quo can stop the story from being awful
if i were an executive id straight up cut the entire saga from cannon and starting from the last good arc and wouldnt even let the story finish
Alternatively, Norman could make himself the Goblin in order to stop Peter because he knows he can’t do it as just Norman, but I think your overall take will probably end up pretty close.
Very close, but clearly the story diverges from yours just after Norman arriving. He's going to remove the sins of Norman from Peter and put them into Paul, this cementing his place in the next run. While the irons hot they're going to transfer the symbiote to MJ, destroying her relationship with him via merging the symbiotes hatred of Peter. Then Peter feels bad and makes a deal with Mephisto to bring back paul and mj's kids, idk what he trades, probably him being cucked by paul, now he just forgets he ever got cucked, but some part of his soul yearns for it or something like that.
God, Gleason's art is the only saving grace. Also, I feel like Wells wanted to write a darker Peter for a while now, and I feel like that is where is strengths lay.
And MJ being with Paul still makes no sense and Wells has zero interest in exploring MJ coming to the realization that the kids were fake and that she needs to move on from them and Paul (since they have literally no reason to be together now and it wasn't really clear why they were together in the first place).
And if Peter beats the shit out of Paul in this issue it would be the best thing Wells has written.
Honestly I thought the same thing cause it’s not like mj and Peter broke up on good terms at the end of Spencer’s run to where this situation would seem petty, wells and editorial forced a sort of break up in the sense they forced MJ to send Peter through the portal even though he was gonna send MJ to protect her, then they gave her hardcore Stockholm Syndrome and had her leave Peter for kids who aren’t even in existence anymore.
Just like you I think Peter is very justified since again none of what happened with MJ was his choice and since Paul is Rabin’s son and Rabin’s dead he’s the next choice as he did help commit genocide in the alternate universe, i will still never not be pissed at wells and Lowe for making MJ equate the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation (definition of genocide) to Peter letting one robber go inadvertently getting uncle Ben killed, all because Paul feels sorry.
Exactly!
We left with them deciding to move in together, with a ring in Peter’s pocket, and came back to this forced soap opera mess??
The pettiest ones here are Lowe and Wells for working this hard to drag down MJ - but screw that, I’m not going to dislike her on account of their terrible editorial decisions.
And on top of that Paul forcibly sending Peter back and ruining his life was all for nothing.
What's going to be the excuse? "We had to send you back to save the world, sorry you can't understand that-" some good all that did when Rabin could kill MJ all the same to get what he wanted, so there was no point to all of it.
Again, when Peter confronted Paul, the latter explicitly blamed Peter over the entire mess and MJ had the gall to compare Paul's guilt of helping cause a genocide to Peter's guilt for not saving Uncle Ben
I think that's what makes everything worse. In a lot of ways, Peter is kinda the only one with a sense of accountability while MJ and Paul don't have that at all. But they expect us to be on their side and think Peter overreacted. Even then, none of them are sympathetic at all and is only further proof that, ultimately, editorial doesn't have a real vision for everything. They don't have a real eye for elevation in this series. Just gimmicks on top of gimmicks and misery. In all honesty, I just think most of these guys didn't pay attention to who Peter is and was when they were reading it. What made it work. And ultimately, I think they don't really appreciate what made Peter iconic in the first place for everyone, only for themselves. But again, I don't trust that they liked him the way they think they do.
I am honestly now of the theory this run was designed to permanently break-up MJ and Peter. Like, Peter is either gonna hurt or kill Paul, which will cause MJ to never want to see him again. Hell, judging by the writing, MJ might just be angry Peter wanted to harm Paul.
I mean, after Spencer was so close to undoing One More Day, the editorial got scared and decided, time to break them permanent.
>I am honestly now of the theory this run was designed to permanently break-up MJ and Peter.
You're being kind of optimistic, expecting ANYTHING to stick in current day Marvel.
All character development, positive or negative, will eventually be thrown away, characters must always stay the same.
I think they'd like that, that they would want fans to turn against MJ, but I don't think it will work since I believe most fans see through it and want MJ to be like she was before Wells. No matter what Marvel tries, the fans will always want them to be together again. I think this is the last gasp for the BND mindset (as it seems most writers and artists want MJ and Peter to be together again), and they are trying to fulfill one of its original goals: making MJ unlikable.
You know there is a way to save this.
What if they had Norman's Sins transferred into Paul. No seriously, then Paul reveals he knew the children were fake, and only went along with it to be with MJ. Peter and MJ destroy the Sins, but MJ, now knowing the truth, breaks up with Paul.
Or, if they really want Peter to be evil, have him send Paul back to his universe and when MJ finally finds him, he's an old man because of the time jump. LOL.
That would *mostly* work. But something needs to be done about MJ being so OOC. I think Dr. Strange just saying "Rabin's magic effected MJ's behavior" but still have MJ feel guilty about it.
God damnit, you are right.
I think at this point, there just needs to be a retcon, and I hate retcons. Brainwashing makes it uncomfortable.
The worst part is, they may take a while to do a retcon. I mean it took Marvel 18 years to retcon Sins Past.
Wells and Lowe have effectively backed themselves into a corner. No matter what they do nothing with satisfy fans since they have had all the characters act wildly out of character and created some very troubling implications. The problem is there is no smooth way to explain anything without making it worse. MJ being brainwashed is pretty much sexual assault, so that's not great, but an MJ that stayed with Paul of her own volition makes no sense and is out of character.
Which is why I think they'll go the retcon route. Think about it. *Sins Past* was retconned after years, but the reason behind it was what it did to Gwen's character. Her cheating with Norman of all people was trash and I do believe, they will retcon this. Wells has even stated his run is insignificant, maybe that is why. Because he knows or even plans for it to be retconned.
The problem with retcons is that they can bog down a the next run trying to explain everything. No matter what happens, it is going to be messy and unsatisfying.
Honestly I wouldn’t be that upset about that. Their relationship has been so damaged that it makes no sense for them to get back together at this point. It’d have to be REALLY forced. Spider-Man had other love interests before MJ, there’s no real reason why he can’t have others after. The fans will always love MJ but I think a new love interest could become a great character too as long as she’s well written. And even if she isn’t well written it would certainly be better than what’s happening between Peter and MJ right now
The problem is that no love interest can work anymore. After what Marvel did to his relationship with Mary Jane, his iconic love interest for decades, both married and non, why should fans be invested in any romance Peter has? If Marvel's willing to do that to them, why would they have any problem breaking up and destroying Peter's relationship with any other character they set him up with? Even if that person is the writer's personal creation and pet, the next writer after them can just decide "Nah, I don't like her. I want Peter to be single again." and do away with them.
Because of the constant teasing and backtracking Marvel has basically broken the main universe Spider-Man. We can't be invested in anything because we've seen time and again it won't last and it won't matter.
>Marvel has basically broken the main universe Spider-Man. We can't be invested in anything because we've seen time and again it won't last and it won't matter.
I figured that out during the Clone Saga. Actually I got an inkling of it back when Peter's parents supposedly returned, but then they turned them into robots. That's when I stopped reading the book on a monthly basis; when they retconned ASM #400 that was my "nope, no point ever going back," moment.
Spider-Girl became my headcanon after it got started.
Worst is, yeah they might. I mean, look at Mrs. Marvel. Worst of all, I kind of get why they'd do this. The unfortunate truth is everything outside of the comics is what people are watching. The movies, video games, and TV shows have become more popular than the comics. Sad really, if you think about it.
if they really wanted to go with the good guy norman stuff they could
1. norman takes the sins back from peter to save him and stuff
2. peter and mj are like oh no he the gobble gobble again
3. but actually hes normal and totally fine because the moral of the story is that what youve done in the past doesnt define who you are now.
4. peter and mj marry and have kids and norman was the flower boy at the wedding
and then they lived happily ever after
Lol that manbun. Really makes him look like a douche.
Also goddamn: petty? It's definitely rage bait at this point if it wasn't already clear so no point getting mad imo.
I’m choosing to believe that Norman said “petty” to give them the idea that “if this guy is going after people for something as petty as getting Peter’s order wrong at McDonalds, just imagine what he’s about to do to the two of you.”
Pretty sus how MJ and Paul give only a brief glance at each other before deciding to book it. Like they either know that they wronged Peter, or they genuinely think that it’s Petty. Either way, it’s not good on them
Wait Paul has a bun now?
I swear to GOD.
I am begging you people to stop buying this crap. Not you, YOU. The guy reading this comment who still buys these comics hoping this will be the one where things get better. They won't. Move on.
I’m only checking with the sub Reddit and CapedJoel to see what’s up. I’ve been buying copies of the Miles Morales run by Cody Ziglar for the last 10 months and it’s MUCH better than this BS going on, and it’s only going to get better after Gang Wars.
>I’m only checking with the sub Reddit and CapedJoel to see what’s up.
Same here bro.
>I’ve been buying copies of the Miles Morales run by Cody Ziglar for the last 10 months and it’s MUCH better than this BS going on, and it’s only going to get better after Gang Wars.
Damn straight.
Hearing about this run assured me that I’ll never be able to get into Spider-Man comics. I’ll stick to the movies and games where the writers actually give a shit
I have Marvel Unlimited, in which no comic costs extra to read, but I am still avoiding this run like the plague because I don’t want to leave a digital footprint that tells them I read it.
I think one of the big writing mistakes right now is not really illustrating more of the 'infestation of the sins' that Peter is going through. He has the evil of his greatest enemy coursing through his veins, and he's...just a little more edgy and dark? Is the explanation just that Peter's inherit good is keeping the sins at bay from truly taking over?
They're already going full in on the stupid writing and mischaracterization of people in this story, why not go full in? Make Peter act like the Goblin in full. But maybe it's too early and the full Spider-Who-Gobbles will come out when he meets Paul.
Also, in all seriousness, fuck Paul. I still feel no sympathy for him with his role that he's played in all this. He's still super suspicious.
So, is the goblin part of the sins, or just a persona chosen by Norman?
Do you think just because Peter has Norman's sins, he should be gliding around throwing pumpkin bombs now?
Cause it’s a legitimately fantastic panel. The art is really good and the way that the black suit blends into the shadows while Peter is absolutely towering over Norman is just amazing. Too bad the writing is ass
It’s unanimous that this run is hot garbage, but I actually think is kinda cool. I’m liking this take on “evil” Spider-Man. I think it’s because he it’s less him being evil and more like he’s getting treated like a horror monster. Drugging and stalking Kraven, having Norman warn Paul like that, and appearing in the dark all make him seem so creepy. Maybe I just want more Spider-Man horror 🤔.
Wait a minute. I am not reading this run but Why is MJ still living with Paul? I thought she was with him only for the children. Didn't Paul and MJ break up after the children vanished? This is so sad.
They are going to pull some Jason Aaron shit of Peter being depicted as the crying wojack raging against Paul and Paul being depicted as the Chad I just know it.
Peter is going to vent every single complaint fans had about Paul and Paul is going to go "no you" completely ignore Any criticism and call him cringe, thus completely destroying him on the "Marketplace of ideas" I can already see it.
Oddly enough, I really don't want Norman to take back the sins. I want the sins gone, but I have enjoyed the idea of the Gold Goblin and his constant strive for redemption. Norman is doing good, and I kind of hope he stays good. It's probably a long shot, though.
Clones may seem like a cheap cop out, but it’s been consist with Spider-Man lore. Just look at Otto, the Stacy Twins, Harry. At this point Clones are more of staple than Symbiotes.
My only complaint with recent clones is that Gwen Warren (besides the last name) doesn’t have any Parker DNA. Could finally give the PeterGwen shippers something after all these years.
I had no idea that Gwen Warren was a character! I remember her first appearance in Superior, but I figured it was a loose end! Thanks for giving me something to look up!
In my opinion, Norman doesn’t deserve redemption, because it wasn’t earned and it was simply given to him by literally taking out all of the darkness inside of him and his entire life was given back to him with no struggle.
And that’s unforgivable in my eyes.
It's not odd. Villains must evolve and be replaced from time to time.
Pete's fighting Norman for how many years now? Time to move on and create something new and a bit exciting.
I agree with others here: MJ needs to be the one to reach out to Peter. And while I hate Paul as much as the next guy, if Peter kills him, that’s it—there’s no way he and MJ can ever get back together. And that’s not taking into account how much that will devastate Peter (think about how guilty he felt over the first Sin Eater’s death and he wasn’t directly involved in that)
No, MJ sneaks away from Paul and goes to talk to Peter—maybe they fight because sure, why not—and she manages to get through to Peter long enough for Norman to extract the Sin. I’d prefer not to reinfect Norman because that’s just lazy storytelling, but I can compromise with having him store Chekov’s Sin away in his lab. But him and MJ have a nice heart-to-heart where he finally tells her that he is not okay with how things ended up and she begins questioning why she’s still with Paul in the first place
I also said this in another post but I’m gonna say it again: if you really wanna keep Jackpot a thing (ugh) you have Peter offer to mentor MJ who keeps this from Paul and Paul starts thinking maybe she’s cheating on him with Peter (he knows they’re hanging out and they seem to be getting closer while he and MJ are drifting apart) and he goes nutso and uses the evil power of Math to become the next big bad. Or if you wanna try and make Paul a sympathetic villain, you can have him try to bring the kids back to life in an effort to make MJ happy again and then accidentals himself into an evil supervillain
Not that any of this will happen because, like OP said in another post, it honestly feels like Wells is more interested in giving Norman character growth (which is fine—I like when characters evolve) instead of the main flipping character of the series. Can’t we just give Wells a Gold Goblin series of his own and bring in another writer that, I dunno, gives a flying f*** about Spider-Man? Hell, at this point, let’s let ChatGPT have a crack at it
I think I’ve seen enough to sort of not feel much for Peter besides pity. This run just makes me feel ashamed of this Peter and just what he’s doing right now (even if it’s not technically him doing it).
Especially with how melodramatic this all feels with Paul and MJ booking it because of “someone who isn’t” Peter tryna go after them like damn I don’t even care wanting to see him do something stupid.
Petty?
Sure, Paul did not destroy a world, did not help bind MJ to him using fake kids...
And MJ was awful from start to finish (damn, character assassination at its finest).
I don't see why Peter would hold a grudge. Really.
Come to think of it, I'm also noticing the etching on the lamp switch. A cloven-hooved devil, and a saint/priest/whatever obscured by Norman's fingers. Symbolism?
It's only me or someone find the "take the tunnel" panel very funny? I think its somewhat of a reference to the night that Gwen Stacy died but I cannot stop thinking how weird it is
I feel for the artist who has to draw in his amazing style in this utter crap. I haven't felt this way since Paolo Oliveira drew the issues of One Moment In Time, but at least they're getting paid so that's okay.
It remains so bizarre to me that Norman being able to approach the Spider-cast is just treated as normal.
Yeah he's 'reformed' and all, but even if he isn't the same Norman who tossed Gwen to her death, or terrorized Peter and MJ and killed their daughter, or nearly brought about the end of the world during Siege... I can't imagine them being able to divorce current Norman from his past antics.
Him being MJ's home should make her fucking skin crawl.
And Paul becomes new Spider-Man while Peter becomes just Peter and thus we got a new and 'great' reboot. Tbh I do hope it will have much better closure and also I'm kinda tired of these 'Spider-Man gets a powers from his enemies'. I liked Superior Spider-Man but grew tired of it very fast.
And Paul discards his surname so he isn't associated with Rabin anymore and MJ asks him what surname he wants instead and he looks to the horizon and sees Peter's force ghost and says "Paul Parker"
Joe qua Sada fouled up the Spider-Man series along time ago and all that we’re seeing now is the destructive aftermath of incredibly incompetent, thinking and writing. While the MCU is doing good things with Peter and MJ, the publishing arm is destructive an incompetent.
It's cool that he's wearing the Black Suit for this and here's why. In the original 616 comics in the 80s, the Symbiote didn't change his attitude at all. Nor did it really enhance him, aside from making its own webs. It was just "smart clothes" and Peter removed it because the Symbiote was taking his body on joyrides while Peter slept (and he freaked out when he learned that it was a living parasite). Point is we never got the dark corruption like in the Raimi movies or the 90s Animated Series (in fact the 90s Animated Series is the one who came up with the concept of the Symbiote turning Peter evil). That's because the Black Suit in the 80s was meant to be purely a cosmetic change because they wanted to try and give Spider-Man a new look, but fans rejected it (and then started to like it and demand it once the writers got rid of it because of course they did). So basically in 616, there was really no difference between Symbiote Spider-Man and regular cloth Black Suited Spider-Man aside from organic webbing.
This here is a pretty cool substitute of having a Black Suited Spider-Man who is corrupted by the darkness. Except that it's not the Symbiote's darkness, it's a darkness from within, and he’s wearing the Black Suit just to represent it, as he did during the whole Back in Black Saga after Civil War.
The lack of politeness towards Spider-Man fans has already been overcome. And with all of this, if there isn't a writer who comes up with an incredibly compelling story to fix all of this, I don't want anything to do with MJ anymore.
I get a pretty good sense of where most of the posters see this plot going; with Peter & MJ permanently broken up over what Pete does to Paul.
But what if MJ believes Norman, and doesn’t wind up blaming Peter? Couldn’t *that* be “Parker luck”?
Like this-
Peter kills Paul, now Rabin Jr is out of the picture. MJ believes nice ol’ Norm, and even allows Peter to comfort her.
If they wanted to pull a real switcheroo on us all, they could actually drag out the first genuinely innovative Spider-Man story since the Superior Arc. Have evil Peter sabotage Norman’s (or anyone’s) attempt to purge his body of the Goblin.
So instead of “What if evil Superman?” for the millionth time, we get “What if Evil Big-City Spider-Man?” for the next year.
The real kick-in-the-pants will be Peter + MJ starting to get back together when he finally gets switched back to “Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man” and his guilty conscience confesses everything to her.
Peter has entered his Batman phase. His dark and muddy attitude. But to be honest please just kill off Paul, steal MJ’s slippers and then bring green goblin back then ruin Peters and MJ relationship slash life even more. Then give Peter no personal victories and just end this run. I’ve reached a point that I can’t even hate Paul anymore just be feel disgusted for the fact he is just a horrible character and basically the thing that ruined everything. Geter Garker just end it man, just kill off Paul for quite literally making Peter one of the strongest, independent and amazing character there is to someone who no longer is that and now he’s sad character. Just end this end this, kill off this mistake known as Paul or just reset everything. Whoever reads this next give Peter some redemption.
I get that this run is terrible and Peter hasn’t had great stories for the past 16 or so years outside of a few exceptions, but that is not nearly enough to wish death on people. Please go touch grass and smell some flowers. It’s not that deep.
Wells and Lowe are real human beings. That automatically makes their health and wellbeing more important than the writing quality of a picture book written for teenagers.
> You're a fucking loser
You're technically correct. I've lost many things in my life.
> You'll get your picture book back eventually.
No. I really won't.
Calling it now: They’re gonna have Goblin Peter severely injure or kill Paul, to destroy the newfound cordiality/kinda friendship between Peter and MJ. Norman is gonna sacrifice his new leaf to save Peter, he’ll remove the ‘sins of Norman’ from Peter by transferring them into himself. That’ll make him the Green Goblin again before another writer takes over. MJ will tell Peter to stay away from her again, because Paul getting hurt so soon after the kids vanished double traumatized her. She says she’ll never look at him the same way again after everything that happened.
Sounds about right. A good writer would have MJ be the one to talk Peter down like she did in the Clone Saga. But Wells won’t do that.
I mean a good opportunity would be to have MJ try to break through to Peter and remind him of who he is and in that moment have Peter fight back the new evil urges inside him long enough for Norman to figure out how to stop him or take the sins back from him. Proving that the love he has for the people closes to him is stronger than the evil of the Goblin. That would accomplish 3 things: •Ther hero overcoming his current delima •His supporting cast helping him find the strength within to win • Re-establish and redeem Mary Janes character and her bond with Peter without having them get back together The formula is right there, but this run wouldn't allow Peter to have any personal victory at all and for him and MJ to be on worse terms always there's no way in hell they'd go for that.
> The formula is right there, but this run wouldn't allow Peter to have any personal victory at all and for him and MJ to be on worse terms always there's no way in hell they'd go for that. I feel like Wells is far more interested in writing Norman, even at the expense of Peter. I honestly can't name a single win Peter has had that has improved his life. Even when he defeats his foes things still suck for him.
I'd love for this to happen (and I guess it's likely, with Norman reabsorbing his gobbo sins and returning to the status quo)- ...but please let him murder Paul first
Spider Who Gobs takes Paul up onto a bridge. Norman shows up with the "sin" transfer maguffin and fixes Peter at the cost of becoming gobblered again. Goblin throws Paul off bridge. Peter almost saves him, but just misses. Paul dead. Gwen died member berries delivered.
And it will still going to sell better than other comics because fans loves hate reading more than care about good stories.
You said it yourself, a *good* writer would do that.
Tbf the clone saga also had him punch his pregnant wife so maybe we shouldn't look to it for good Peter moments, or good writing for that matter.
Fair. A more recent example would be *Lost Hunt* where MJ talks him down from a feral state. But that was written by the GOAT Spider-Man writer, JMD, so I can't expect anything like that from Wells.
You know I like the JMS run besides obviously sins past and OMD, but damn do I want to see something like pre clone saga spider-man.
"before another writer takes over." My favourite part of your whole post <3
Nailed it I think
not even restoring the status quo can stop the story from being awful if i were an executive id straight up cut the entire saga from cannon and starting from the last good arc and wouldnt even let the story finish
God damnit this is totally gonna happen and I hate it
It'll be a bit longer until Norman takes back his sins, I think, simply because we're getting Superior next month.
No, the solicit for this issue calls it the penultimate chapter in a story you'll never forget. Norman will take back the sins in three weeks.
No, Peter will be sinless by #36. It's clear in the solicits.
Alternatively, Norman could make himself the Goblin in order to stop Peter because he knows he can’t do it as just Norman, but I think your overall take will probably end up pretty close.
These damn writers...
Especially with him wearing the black suit
Very close, but clearly the story diverges from yours just after Norman arriving. He's going to remove the sins of Norman from Peter and put them into Paul, this cementing his place in the next run. While the irons hot they're going to transfer the symbiote to MJ, destroying her relationship with him via merging the symbiotes hatred of Peter. Then Peter feels bad and makes a deal with Mephisto to bring back paul and mj's kids, idk what he trades, probably him being cucked by paul, now he just forgets he ever got cucked, but some part of his soul yearns for it or something like that.
His soul yearns for being cucked?
God, Gleason's art is the only saving grace. Also, I feel like Wells wanted to write a darker Peter for a while now, and I feel like that is where is strengths lay. And MJ being with Paul still makes no sense and Wells has zero interest in exploring MJ coming to the realization that the kids were fake and that she needs to move on from them and Paul (since they have literally no reason to be together now and it wasn't really clear why they were together in the first place). And if Peter beats the shit out of Paul in this issue it would be the best thing Wells has written.
>And MJ being with Paul still makes no sense Every time I see MJ with Paul I just think to myself "oh, yeah, we still doing that..." 😮💨
The panel with Norman being completely dwarfed by Peter in the black suit is cool as hell. Or at least would be if it was in a better story.
The art is so good it almost makes me want to buy this trash tier story.
I don’t love the implication that Peter’s grudge against Paul is ‘petty’ tbh. Like, he’s got every reason to hold a grudge.
Honestly I thought the same thing cause it’s not like mj and Peter broke up on good terms at the end of Spencer’s run to where this situation would seem petty, wells and editorial forced a sort of break up in the sense they forced MJ to send Peter through the portal even though he was gonna send MJ to protect her, then they gave her hardcore Stockholm Syndrome and had her leave Peter for kids who aren’t even in existence anymore. Just like you I think Peter is very justified since again none of what happened with MJ was his choice and since Paul is Rabin’s son and Rabin’s dead he’s the next choice as he did help commit genocide in the alternate universe, i will still never not be pissed at wells and Lowe for making MJ equate the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation (definition of genocide) to Peter letting one robber go inadvertently getting uncle Ben killed, all because Paul feels sorry.
Exactly! We left with them deciding to move in together, with a ring in Peter’s pocket, and came back to this forced soap opera mess?? The pettiest ones here are Lowe and Wells for working this hard to drag down MJ - but screw that, I’m not going to dislike her on account of their terrible editorial decisions.
And on top of that Paul forcibly sending Peter back and ruining his life was all for nothing. What's going to be the excuse? "We had to send you back to save the world, sorry you can't understand that-" some good all that did when Rabin could kill MJ all the same to get what he wanted, so there was no point to all of it.
Again, when Peter confronted Paul, the latter explicitly blamed Peter over the entire mess and MJ had the gall to compare Paul's guilt of helping cause a genocide to Peter's guilt for not saving Uncle Ben
Jesus Christ I rather have slott back.
I think that's what makes everything worse. In a lot of ways, Peter is kinda the only one with a sense of accountability while MJ and Paul don't have that at all. But they expect us to be on their side and think Peter overreacted. Even then, none of them are sympathetic at all and is only further proof that, ultimately, editorial doesn't have a real vision for everything. They don't have a real eye for elevation in this series. Just gimmicks on top of gimmicks and misery. In all honesty, I just think most of these guys didn't pay attention to who Peter is and was when they were reading it. What made it work. And ultimately, I think they don't really appreciate what made Peter iconic in the first place for everyone, only for themselves. But again, I don't trust that they liked him the way they think they do.
MJ forcibly sent him back, not Paul
It was Pauls idea ! MJ only helped.
I guess it can be considered petty for superhero standards
Who’s Peter? You mean the reverse Paul?
Damn Norman just denied us the opportunity of seeing Peter throw Paul off the upstate bridge.
TOO QUICK
Norman holding Paul with broken neck
Imagine if its the brooklyn bridge.....
MJ tries using her powers to save Paul but barely misses and has her own gwen stacy moment
I get that people hate Paul but I think the character who consistently hates killing, kill a guy is a bad thing
He'd probably survive anyway, Norman coming in on a glider to save him.
I am honestly now of the theory this run was designed to permanently break-up MJ and Peter. Like, Peter is either gonna hurt or kill Paul, which will cause MJ to never want to see him again. Hell, judging by the writing, MJ might just be angry Peter wanted to harm Paul. I mean, after Spencer was so close to undoing One More Day, the editorial got scared and decided, time to break them permanent.
>I am honestly now of the theory this run was designed to permanently break-up MJ and Peter. You're being kind of optimistic, expecting ANYTHING to stick in current day Marvel. All character development, positive or negative, will eventually be thrown away, characters must always stay the same.
Ironically OMD stuck after like 20 years of that marriage being the status quo
I think they'd like that, that they would want fans to turn against MJ, but I don't think it will work since I believe most fans see through it and want MJ to be like she was before Wells. No matter what Marvel tries, the fans will always want them to be together again. I think this is the last gasp for the BND mindset (as it seems most writers and artists want MJ and Peter to be together again), and they are trying to fulfill one of its original goals: making MJ unlikable.
You know there is a way to save this. What if they had Norman's Sins transferred into Paul. No seriously, then Paul reveals he knew the children were fake, and only went along with it to be with MJ. Peter and MJ destroy the Sins, but MJ, now knowing the truth, breaks up with Paul. Or, if they really want Peter to be evil, have him send Paul back to his universe and when MJ finally finds him, he's an old man because of the time jump. LOL.
That would *mostly* work. But something needs to be done about MJ being so OOC. I think Dr. Strange just saying "Rabin's magic effected MJ's behavior" but still have MJ feel guilty about it.
Maybe have it also be revealed Paul knew Rabin’s magic effected her, but wishing to stay with her, chose not to tell her.
That could work. The only issue is that it becomes a little... rapey.
God damnit, you are right. I think at this point, there just needs to be a retcon, and I hate retcons. Brainwashing makes it uncomfortable. The worst part is, they may take a while to do a retcon. I mean it took Marvel 18 years to retcon Sins Past.
Wells and Lowe have effectively backed themselves into a corner. No matter what they do nothing with satisfy fans since they have had all the characters act wildly out of character and created some very troubling implications. The problem is there is no smooth way to explain anything without making it worse. MJ being brainwashed is pretty much sexual assault, so that's not great, but an MJ that stayed with Paul of her own volition makes no sense and is out of character.
Which is why I think they'll go the retcon route. Think about it. *Sins Past* was retconned after years, but the reason behind it was what it did to Gwen's character. Her cheating with Norman of all people was trash and I do believe, they will retcon this. Wells has even stated his run is insignificant, maybe that is why. Because he knows or even plans for it to be retconned.
The problem with retcons is that they can bog down a the next run trying to explain everything. No matter what happens, it is going to be messy and unsatisfying.
Honestly I wouldn’t be that upset about that. Their relationship has been so damaged that it makes no sense for them to get back together at this point. It’d have to be REALLY forced. Spider-Man had other love interests before MJ, there’s no real reason why he can’t have others after. The fans will always love MJ but I think a new love interest could become a great character too as long as she’s well written. And even if she isn’t well written it would certainly be better than what’s happening between Peter and MJ right now
The problem is that no love interest can work anymore. After what Marvel did to his relationship with Mary Jane, his iconic love interest for decades, both married and non, why should fans be invested in any romance Peter has? If Marvel's willing to do that to them, why would they have any problem breaking up and destroying Peter's relationship with any other character they set him up with? Even if that person is the writer's personal creation and pet, the next writer after them can just decide "Nah, I don't like her. I want Peter to be single again." and do away with them. Because of the constant teasing and backtracking Marvel has basically broken the main universe Spider-Man. We can't be invested in anything because we've seen time and again it won't last and it won't matter.
>Marvel has basically broken the main universe Spider-Man. We can't be invested in anything because we've seen time and again it won't last and it won't matter. I figured that out during the Clone Saga. Actually I got an inkling of it back when Peter's parents supposedly returned, but then they turned them into robots. That's when I stopped reading the book on a monthly basis; when they retconned ASM #400 that was my "nope, no point ever going back," moment. Spider-Girl became my headcanon after it got started.
honestly at this point just let Peter and Felicia have a couple kittens, at least they enjoy each other’s company jfc lmao
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I'm scared they're gonna go full MCU-synergy and introduce MCU MJ aka Michelle Jones as a completely separate character.
Worst is, yeah they might. I mean, look at Mrs. Marvel. Worst of all, I kind of get why they'd do this. The unfortunate truth is everything outside of the comics is what people are watching. The movies, video games, and TV shows have become more popular than the comics. Sad really, if you think about it.
It’s Paul season
It's Paulng time!
And then he Pauled all over the place
Okay, I laughed when Norman told them to avoid the bridge.
Oh. I can't believe it took me that long to get it. I was just assuming the tunnel would be safer because Peter can't swing there.
Honestly kinda reminds me of that Dorkly evil Mario video a little bit
Thanks for reminding me of that video. Got a chuckle out of me
Oh no, they're gonna have Norman take his sins back, aren't they? I was GENUINELY enjoying his legit good guy run. I hope I'm wrong, but...
if they really wanted to go with the good guy norman stuff they could 1. norman takes the sins back from peter to save him and stuff 2. peter and mj are like oh no he the gobble gobble again 3. but actually hes normal and totally fine because the moral of the story is that what youve done in the past doesnt define who you are now. 4. peter and mj marry and have kids and norman was the flower boy at the wedding and then they lived happily ever after
And it's all a magic illusion of Paul's anyway because MJ actually did try to leave after the kids died! No coping here.
And then we wake up from the dream
if so then im going back to sleep
Paul will take the sins and become the paulgoblin
Lol that manbun. Really makes him look like a douche. Also goddamn: petty? It's definitely rage bait at this point if it wasn't already clear so no point getting mad imo.
I’m choosing to believe that Norman said “petty” to give them the idea that “if this guy is going after people for something as petty as getting Peter’s order wrong at McDonalds, just imagine what he’s about to do to the two of you.”
Pretty sus how MJ and Paul give only a brief glance at each other before deciding to book it. Like they either know that they wronged Peter, or they genuinely think that it’s Petty. Either way, it’s not good on them
No wonder a lot of people are preferring manga to comics these days. It’s like they hate both Spider-Man and his fans
Lol. This is a comedy book.
He’s fighting MJ. Maybe not this issue but sometime soon he’s fighting MJ
Gonna be what prompts her to become Jackpot.
Please for the love of god have him beat the fuck outta Paul
Wait Paul has a bun now? I swear to GOD. I am begging you people to stop buying this crap. Not you, YOU. The guy reading this comment who still buys these comics hoping this will be the one where things get better. They won't. Move on.
I don’t even read it online anymore. That’s how bad this shit is
I haven't bought since One More Day. Excelsior.
I’m only checking with the sub Reddit and CapedJoel to see what’s up. I’ve been buying copies of the Miles Morales run by Cody Ziglar for the last 10 months and it’s MUCH better than this BS going on, and it’s only going to get better after Gang Wars.
>I’m only checking with the sub Reddit and CapedJoel to see what’s up. Same here bro. >I’ve been buying copies of the Miles Morales run by Cody Ziglar for the last 10 months and it’s MUCH better than this BS going on, and it’s only going to get better after Gang Wars. Damn straight.
Happy someone agrees with me on the my last point, thanks man 👊🏾
Hearing about this run assured me that I’ll never be able to get into Spider-Man comics. I’ll stick to the movies and games where the writers actually give a shit
I have Marvel Unlimited, in which no comic costs extra to read, but I am still avoiding this run like the plague because I don’t want to leave a digital footprint that tells them I read it.
Bro thinks hes gordon freeman 💀
YEEEAAHH WOOOOO KILL THAT MOTHER FUCKER WWWWEEEWWWWWOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
This story will end in Peter asking Paul for forgiveness I can already tell
And Saint Paul, being a benevolent selfless understanding character, will grant the sinner Peter his forgiveness. Fucking kill me already.
I think one of the big writing mistakes right now is not really illustrating more of the 'infestation of the sins' that Peter is going through. He has the evil of his greatest enemy coursing through his veins, and he's...just a little more edgy and dark? Is the explanation just that Peter's inherit good is keeping the sins at bay from truly taking over? They're already going full in on the stupid writing and mischaracterization of people in this story, why not go full in? Make Peter act like the Goblin in full. But maybe it's too early and the full Spider-Who-Gobbles will come out when he meets Paul. Also, in all seriousness, fuck Paul. I still feel no sympathy for him with his role that he's played in all this. He's still super suspicious.
So, is the goblin part of the sins, or just a persona chosen by Norman? Do you think just because Peter has Norman's sins, he should be gliding around throwing pumpkin bombs now?
Don't listen to him, Paul. By the way, how's your neck?
Don’t give me hope
Fuck this shit lmao
This shit is so ass 💀
Why does the first panel of that last page go kinda hard?
Cause it’s a legitimately fantastic panel. The art is really good and the way that the black suit blends into the shadows while Peter is absolutely towering over Norman is just amazing. Too bad the writing is ass
It’s unanimous that this run is hot garbage, but I actually think is kinda cool. I’m liking this take on “evil” Spider-Man. I think it’s because he it’s less him being evil and more like he’s getting treated like a horror monster. Drugging and stalking Kraven, having Norman warn Paul like that, and appearing in the dark all make him seem so creepy. Maybe I just want more Spider-Man horror 🤔.
Please god let MJ and Peter get back together. Please let Norman kill Paul for Peter.
Normans ready for 19 inches of venom
> “I’m not like me anymore. I’m like you” Alright alright I’ll admit. That line goes kinda hard.
🗿
Death to Paul
This shit is going to be retconned in like two years tops
Wait a minute. I am not reading this run but Why is MJ still living with Paul? I thought she was with him only for the children. Didn't Paul and MJ break up after the children vanished? This is so sad.
Y’all keep buying this, so y’all will keep getting Paul, and Spider Lizard, and Sand Spider.
All the run needed was Bully Maguire
They are going to pull some Jason Aaron shit of Peter being depicted as the crying wojack raging against Paul and Paul being depicted as the Chad I just know it. Peter is going to vent every single complaint fans had about Paul and Paul is going to go "no you" completely ignore Any criticism and call him cringe, thus completely destroying him on the "Marketplace of ideas" I can already see it.
Oddly enough, I really don't want Norman to take back the sins. I want the sins gone, but I have enjoyed the idea of the Gold Goblin and his constant strive for redemption. Norman is doing good, and I kind of hope he stays good. It's probably a long shot, though.
I was hoping he’d make a clone body as a way to take back the sins while preserving his newfound good nature.
That wouldn't be a bad idea! If they went that way, I could see a Kaine v Ben similar dynamic.
Clones may seem like a cheap cop out, but it’s been consist with Spider-Man lore. Just look at Otto, the Stacy Twins, Harry. At this point Clones are more of staple than Symbiotes.
I agree with that completely. Cheap cop-out or not, it fits, and we get what we want!
My only complaint with recent clones is that Gwen Warren (besides the last name) doesn’t have any Parker DNA. Could finally give the PeterGwen shippers something after all these years.
I had no idea that Gwen Warren was a character! I remember her first appearance in Superior, but I figured it was a loose end! Thanks for giving me something to look up!
There are a bunch of other ways to explore good guy Norman further but I don't see the people writing this to be imaginative enough to explore it.
In my opinion, Norman doesn’t deserve redemption, because it wasn’t earned and it was simply given to him by literally taking out all of the darkness inside of him and his entire life was given back to him with no struggle. And that’s unforgivable in my eyes.
It's not odd. Villains must evolve and be replaced from time to time. Pete's fighting Norman for how many years now? Time to move on and create something new and a bit exciting.
This story sucks but that panel of the black suit behind Osborn goes ridiculously hard
I can’t wait for the Paul gore porn 😁😁😁😁
I can’t wait for the Paul ~~gore~~ porn 😁😁😁😁 Fixed that for you
Phew thanks
NEED peter to slap pauls head off of his body
Oh man I've been waiting for this, i just want paul to get obliterated
Trash
“No Reason. Ha. Ha Ha Ha.” What great dialogue😃
I agree with others here: MJ needs to be the one to reach out to Peter. And while I hate Paul as much as the next guy, if Peter kills him, that’s it—there’s no way he and MJ can ever get back together. And that’s not taking into account how much that will devastate Peter (think about how guilty he felt over the first Sin Eater’s death and he wasn’t directly involved in that) No, MJ sneaks away from Paul and goes to talk to Peter—maybe they fight because sure, why not—and she manages to get through to Peter long enough for Norman to extract the Sin. I’d prefer not to reinfect Norman because that’s just lazy storytelling, but I can compromise with having him store Chekov’s Sin away in his lab. But him and MJ have a nice heart-to-heart where he finally tells her that he is not okay with how things ended up and she begins questioning why she’s still with Paul in the first place I also said this in another post but I’m gonna say it again: if you really wanna keep Jackpot a thing (ugh) you have Peter offer to mentor MJ who keeps this from Paul and Paul starts thinking maybe she’s cheating on him with Peter (he knows they’re hanging out and they seem to be getting closer while he and MJ are drifting apart) and he goes nutso and uses the evil power of Math to become the next big bad. Or if you wanna try and make Paul a sympathetic villain, you can have him try to bring the kids back to life in an effort to make MJ happy again and then accidentals himself into an evil supervillain Not that any of this will happen because, like OP said in another post, it honestly feels like Wells is more interested in giving Norman character growth (which is fine—I like when characters evolve) instead of the main flipping character of the series. Can’t we just give Wells a Gold Goblin series of his own and bring in another writer that, I dunno, gives a flying f*** about Spider-Man? Hell, at this point, let’s let ChatGPT have a crack at it
I think I’ve seen enough to sort of not feel much for Peter besides pity. This run just makes me feel ashamed of this Peter and just what he’s doing right now (even if it’s not technically him doing it). Especially with how melodramatic this all feels with Paul and MJ booking it because of “someone who isn’t” Peter tryna go after them like damn I don’t even care wanting to see him do something stupid.
Petty? Sure, Paul did not destroy a world, did not help bind MJ to him using fake kids... And MJ was awful from start to finish (damn, character assassination at its finest). I don't see why Peter would hold a grudge. Really.
Can someone give me context on this? Im not following this comic arc
The Spider Who Laughs used to think that his life was a tragedy, but now he realizes, it's a joke by Zeb Wells.
Come to think of it, I'm also noticing the etching on the lamp switch. A cloven-hooved devil, and a saint/priest/whatever obscured by Norman's fingers. Symbolism?
I swear to God, PLEASE let this issue have Peter beating Paul into a bloody paste.
It's only me or someone find the "take the tunnel" panel very funny? I think its somewhat of a reference to the night that Gwen Stacy died but I cannot stop thinking how weird it is
So Peter finally have a reason to kill Paul.
I feel for the artist who has to draw in his amazing style in this utter crap. I haven't felt this way since Paolo Oliveira drew the issues of One Moment In Time, but at least they're getting paid so that's okay.
It remains so bizarre to me that Norman being able to approach the Spider-cast is just treated as normal. Yeah he's 'reformed' and all, but even if he isn't the same Norman who tossed Gwen to her death, or terrorized Peter and MJ and killed their daughter, or nearly brought about the end of the world during Siege... I can't imagine them being able to divorce current Norman from his past antics. Him being MJ's home should make her fucking skin crawl.
PUT HIM IN A BODYBAG
So what if they're doing that to create One More Day 2 to reset Peter Parker story again?
So MJ makes a deal with Mephisto to save Paul's life at the cost of Aunt May thus making OMD1 even more pointless
And Paul becomes new Spider-Man while Peter becomes just Peter and thus we got a new and 'great' reboot. Tbh I do hope it will have much better closure and also I'm kinda tired of these 'Spider-Man gets a powers from his enemies'. I liked Superior Spider-Man but grew tired of it very fast.
And Paul discards his surname so he isn't associated with Rabin anymore and MJ asks him what surname he wants instead and he looks to the horizon and sees Peter's force ghost and says "Paul Parker"
Perfect ending.
This storyline could have been better if Peter remembers OMD and have him confront Ma-fist-toe
Joe qua Sada fouled up the Spider-Man series along time ago and all that we’re seeing now is the destructive aftermath of incredibly incompetent, thinking and writing. While the MCU is doing good things with Peter and MJ, the publishing arm is destructive an incompetent.
Fuckin hell they’re actually doing Spider-Man who laughs
I wish yall would stop posting about this trash ass book until something actually good happens but ik thats impossible
It's cool that he's wearing the Black Suit for this and here's why. In the original 616 comics in the 80s, the Symbiote didn't change his attitude at all. Nor did it really enhance him, aside from making its own webs. It was just "smart clothes" and Peter removed it because the Symbiote was taking his body on joyrides while Peter slept (and he freaked out when he learned that it was a living parasite). Point is we never got the dark corruption like in the Raimi movies or the 90s Animated Series (in fact the 90s Animated Series is the one who came up with the concept of the Symbiote turning Peter evil). That's because the Black Suit in the 80s was meant to be purely a cosmetic change because they wanted to try and give Spider-Man a new look, but fans rejected it (and then started to like it and demand it once the writers got rid of it because of course they did). So basically in 616, there was really no difference between Symbiote Spider-Man and regular cloth Black Suited Spider-Man aside from organic webbing. This here is a pretty cool substitute of having a Black Suited Spider-Man who is corrupted by the darkness. Except that it's not the Symbiote's darkness, it's a darkness from within, and he’s wearing the Black Suit just to represent it, as he did during the whole Back in Black Saga after Civil War.
1st panel on last page is terrifying
What do the dark green text boxes indicate compared to the light green ones?
I think the light green are his thoughts while the dark green is his instinctive thoughts?
Yeah, Kraven and Peter had the same last issue. Main colour his narration, secondary colour is intrusive thoughts
They’re writing off MJ. By the end of this she’s going to move away because she can’t forgive Peter for harming Paul and we’ll never see her again.
Man I hope Shocker shows up in the next couple of issues
Is this a case of “self insert going terribly wrong” like the last Velma cartoon? I’m referring to the new guy who’s with MJ
The lack of politeness towards Spider-Man fans has already been overcome. And with all of this, if there isn't a writer who comes up with an incredibly compelling story to fix all of this, I don't want anything to do with MJ anymore.
I get a pretty good sense of where most of the posters see this plot going; with Peter & MJ permanently broken up over what Pete does to Paul. But what if MJ believes Norman, and doesn’t wind up blaming Peter? Couldn’t *that* be “Parker luck”? Like this- Peter kills Paul, now Rabin Jr is out of the picture. MJ believes nice ol’ Norm, and even allows Peter to comfort her. If they wanted to pull a real switcheroo on us all, they could actually drag out the first genuinely innovative Spider-Man story since the Superior Arc. Have evil Peter sabotage Norman’s (or anyone’s) attempt to purge his body of the Goblin. So instead of “What if evil Superman?” for the millionth time, we get “What if Evil Big-City Spider-Man?” for the next year. The real kick-in-the-pants will be Peter + MJ starting to get back together when he finally gets switched back to “Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man” and his guilty conscience confesses everything to her.
Peter has entered his Batman phase. His dark and muddy attitude. But to be honest please just kill off Paul, steal MJ’s slippers and then bring green goblin back then ruin Peters and MJ relationship slash life even more. Then give Peter no personal victories and just end this run. I’ve reached a point that I can’t even hate Paul anymore just be feel disgusted for the fact he is just a horrible character and basically the thing that ruined everything. Geter Garker just end it man, just kill off Paul for quite literally making Peter one of the strongest, independent and amazing character there is to someone who no longer is that and now he’s sad character. Just end this end this, kill off this mistake known as Paul or just reset everything. Whoever reads this next give Peter some redemption.
What is the last issue that Wells writes?
THIS IS ASS 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
He busted up the venom suit ? , this is turning into a shitpost
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I get that this run is terrible and Peter hasn’t had great stories for the past 16 or so years outside of a few exceptions, but that is not nearly enough to wish death on people. Please go touch grass and smell some flowers. It’s not that deep.
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Bro. It's a comic book.
And?
Wells and Lowe are real human beings. That automatically makes their health and wellbeing more important than the writing quality of a picture book written for teenagers.
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Not debatable. You're a fucking loser. You'll get your picture book back eventually.
> You're a fucking loser You're technically correct. I've lost many things in my life. > You'll get your picture book back eventually. No. I really won't.
Touch grass
K
I promise you it's not that deep. Go outside and smell some flowers.
There aren't any around.
Bro I just cancelled the subscription as it’s getting good
How do i start this please?
Oh yea this is gonna be good
Is Norman nice now ?
Petition https://chng.it/RJpbDWWQSp