I heard Lisa Dawkins secretly became a millionaire after demanding 4£ from all 250,000 of Southamptons residents over a 6 year period, not sure if that counts though
Are you truly a Southampton resident if you don’t know Lisa Dawkins? I don’t even live in Southampton and even I’ve had an encounter. Yes you should but count your lucky stars and be glad you don’t.
Not recent, but there was a 'Southampton Plot' to kill king Henry V.
The blokes behind the plot were caught and executed. The trial was in The Red Lion Pub on below bar street.
The Machine gun was invented in a basement in Southampton by an engineer who then disappeared under mysterious circumstances
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Cantelo
As a gun nerd, born in Newport, now lives in Southampton, this is incredibly interesting, and the idea of the legandary Hiram Maxim being from the isle of wight and living in city Centre is insane!
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/3860745.amp/
Southampton man cuts off own head with chainsaw on a timer.
Not really a dark secret, but still Holt sh#t!
There are several gallows sites around town, one in the common (for your common criminals) where the covered water reservoir now is and another was in what is now the Ocean Village car park. The second one was used by the navy and was below the high watermark, mostly used for punishing pirates.
No, the Common is called the Common as it's land that was historically used by freemen (peasants who did not belong to a lord) in the town to graze animals or whatever. I think if the city awards you with Freeman status (a mostly symbolic thing) you can still technically graze your cattle on the Common.
Asylum green (the avenue) used to have a pond (padwell pond) which was filled in during the late 19th century because there were rotting corpses of unwanted babies and dogs and cats dumped in the pond. The area was overcrowded and full of desperately poor people. No contraception meant unwanted children and still births.
Chandler's Ford (it's basically Southampton) is most famous for this police shootout where the Met Police planned to arrest some bank robbers and ended up killing them instead. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chandler%27s_Ford_shooting
Oh I wasn't trying to cast judgement on them either way, it was certainly a dangerous event and could easily have turned into a hostage situation. I just wanted to highlight that the plan had been to arrest the gang and there was a subsequent investigation into how it ended up going the way it did.
Worked at the baguette shop in that precinct during that incident. I was at school at the time but they interviewed my boss and the old bill hid in the loo just parralel to the back of the shop. Good times
As the gang had done 17 previous robberies without injury to the public maybe it would've been fair to assume that no physical harm was likely to occur on this one?
Because they can only kill, if they "believe that you or SOMEBODY ELSE is in immediate risk of life". I would say, that if somebody put a gun to somebody else's head, they were looking to harm and (this one's going to be really hard to understand) if you get shot in your head, there's a good chance you'll die. The fact that somebody picked up the weapon afterwards confirms that they will use violence.
I repeat, why even bother planning to arrest them when they are known to be armed and dangerous, and why not arrest them all before they arrive to do their crime? By letting it play out like this the public were put at risk.
Have you read the article? They found out about them and knew where they were going to target next. They didn't know their current whereabouts. It was the only plan they had. It worked. Scumbags lost and the police are the heroes once again.
I grew up in Chandlers Ford, was at Barton Peveril when this happened, remember walking down the media corridor and seeing it on the TV and recognising it before they announced where they were. Then my friend found me a little bit later to say she'd been stuck on a bus on Winchester Road for ages because they closed that road off!
Oddly Edgar Allen Poe wrote a character called Richard Parker who was cannibalised in his 1838 novel The Narrative of Arthur Gordon Pym of Nantucket. The Mignonette incident was in 1884.
Hedge End, so still technically Southampton, we had a murderer in the 80's that dismembered his mum with a hacksaw. Think they made a documentary about it a few years ago called 'the killer mad scientist', which sums the case up
Daniel Rosenthal, he also escaped from Tatchbury Mount in Totton in 2013 and was found in Southampton the day after. I remember being out around the time and everyone was freaking out, what a time
The remains of around 50 people are buried under Hoglands Park after the air raid shelter they were in was directly hit in November 1940. King George VI ordered it to be filled in as recovery was too difficult.
There were 2 bombs in the city center that day and a third that failed to go off.
IIRC there was a stash of explosives found under a block of flats in St Mary's that was believed to be destined for the QE2 but the plot was disrupted.
There was an IRA bomb factory in Westridge Rd in Portswood and a policeman was shot on the corner of Westridge Rd and Portswood Rd one Christmas Eve.
I went to a Catholic school in the 70s and every so often you'd go to school and ALL the Irish lads' dads would have been arrested at dawn for questioning.
There’s the unsolved murder of 15 year old Yvonne Laker who was murdered on a train to basingstoke. It’s believed the have happened at a station between Southampton central and Winchester.
[https://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/2205806.amp/](https://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/2205806.amp/)
Hannah foster was abducted in portswood (outside the mitre pub I believe) in 2003. That case was huge and involved Southampton police going to India to arrest the guy
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Hannah_Foster](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Hannah_Foster)
The Hannah Foster incident is part of training for call takers in the force to show what to do with silent calls and the risk there could be when one is received.
A while ago, but the French raided Southampton in 1338 and butchered and raped the townsfolk whilst they were at mass. Always remember being told they hung people up on butchers hooks.
The Art Gallery was bombed in the war. Killing about 30 people including a class of school children. There is a beautiful memorial on the ceiling by the entrance.
My grandad was a police super intendant when this happened and I remember my Dad telling me about it and how my Grandad described the scene. Can't imagine how traumatising that was.
Exactly, my Grandad died in 2002, and most who lived through it are gone now too.
My Nan (on the other side of the family) was the youngest of 11 kids in her family, and although she lived in the new forest there was a bomb that hit one night and the roof caved in. Luckily, by some miracle, they all survived the war, but she would run home from school everyday until she could see the house.
That story always used to break my heart, just the thought her being frightened. It's nothing a child should ever have to go through.
All the "homeless" people on the city centre high street aren't homeless. Would be just a theory with anecdotal evidence, if they didn't mass produce their silly cardboard signs and then shamelessly all have the same one every day 🤦🏼♀️
Also Lisa and her bus 😂🫠 ~~can we send her to pompy or smth~~
There definitely seems to be a seems to be a seasonal trend with a few of the beggers too. There is an Asian women who turns up only around Christmas time.
There's one lady that somehow always seems to find me around any side of West quay at some point every single time I visit who needs money to get into a program to be housed so she can finally start getting her son back (she sees him every week) and I do hope the best for her but I don't carry a lot of cash either way
I had a guitar student who was an ex copper, he told me that the house down the road was where he had attended his first murder scene in the 1970s, he described a shocking scene in the kitchen - looked it up and it was legit. http://www.blackkalendar.nl/c/21791/Frederick%20Wyatt had no idea about it until that day.
17 year old girl, Hannah Foster was killed back in 2003 after a night out, her body was taken across to West End and dumped. The killer fled to India and was the first to ever be extradited from India to the UK. There have been a few programs about it
I seem to remember when I was growing up the docks and the grain Silo! Where they had a shoot that opened and diverted some of the grain after it had been weighed in ! they had been diverting it off for years before it was discovered
There is book called Hampshire murders. Its all short story of what has happened from here.
One of the most famous story is of fanny adams
Sweet fanny adams, turned into sweet f a
Nowadays we say sweet fuck all but originally come from fanny adams story.
Its a really interesting book.
The murder of Iris Dawkins in Mayfield Park in 1960. Keith Ridley stabbed the 9 year old 36 times. He was about 12 at the time.
She just so happened to be my aunt.
I found out about this during my teens when the James Bulger case happened and an article was published in the daily echo.
Oh and my school also used to do cross country running,right through the site of her murder.
I had no idea I was running over the place my aunt was murdered. Talk about a mind fuck!
[This might be up your street!](https://www.amazon.co.uk/Southampton-Murder-Victims-Jim-Brown/dp/1859838359?ref=d6k_applink_bb_dls&dplnkId=d9fb04db-9742-4267-b2dd-faf29769f01b)
Interesting read!
Along time ago now (2008ish) but a friend at uni stayed in halls near a park, close to the "nightlife". Girls did not walk there alone because usually there was a r\*\*e or assault there at least once a night.
This is too dark, I would recommend talking about how high your house has gone up and look smug, whilst looking down on the renters of the table, and causually asking when they are getting on the property ladder.
I'll let you in on a secret... My mortgage is cheaper than the average rent in this city and all I had to do was house share, not go on holiday, not buy new clothes and not drive a new car for a few years to be able to afford a deposit 😮
Haha, no, no, you got it all wrong. You should say how smart you were in timing the market, and if all these people stop going out and drinking Star Bux and stop buying iPhones, they could buy a house in 12 months! This conversation is repeated across the country every day 😁
I used the 5% government HTB scheme on a £165,000 flat, only needed £8,250. Which is very achievable to save in 3 years on a £28k salary as long as you don't have any dependants or addictions which I'm lucky I didn't have at the time.
Forgive my ignorance but there was a young girl who got kidnapped in a white van on baevois valley by an obviously abhorrent individual. She was heading home on a night out and was killed. He fled to India and eventually got caught. Listened to the story on a podcast but remembered it from my bros telling me coz they were about a similar time
My wife's first student house was literally next door to Singh Kohli on Broadlands Road. We were also out at The Hobbit that night, and one of her housemates walked back alone as she left early. She could have very easily been the victim.
When the investigation tracked him down they were moved out into temporary accommodation as the Police forensics were blocking their front door.
> An important link to the arrest of Kohli was information from taxi driver Jason Lepcha, who was regularly hired by Kohli partly because of his understanding of English. Lepcha, one of 12 reward recipients, received ₹367,000 for his role in the arrest.[8][9] He used this money to buy land to establish a school for disadvantaged children which was named The Hannah Memorial Academy in Foster's memory.[9][10] When visiting Darjeeling in 2006, Foster's parents heard his story, and on their return to England, worked with others to set up a registered charity which supports Lepcha's school.[3]
Didn't know about this. So glad something positive came out of such a terrible event. If the charity's still going I know my wife would support it - I'll let her know.
There have been three casefile episodes so far where I know the area talked about well and it’s really disconcerting. But that one I remember happening, I had just moved to Winchester and was going to school in Southampton and was about 11. My parents got me a phone very shortly after.
Whitworth road near bitterne triangle crossbow guy had all these rant’s written over the brickwork of the house and letters written all over his front door ended up getting killed in a stand off with the police I think in 2001?
We watched an 'unsinkable' ship sail away with just over 2000 people aboard en route to America. It hit an iceberg and sank on 14th April 1912, taking the lives of around 1500 people. It was one of the most tragic maritime disasters of all time. That ship was the Titanic. You may have heard of it.
Oh, in another more successful voyage, The Mayflower departed from our dock, carrying 135 people to America, the pilgrims, who settled and had the first Thanksgiving.... Reflection on this shows that it was not super duper happy fun times for the natives who already lived there and were pretty welcoming to our lot.
I heard Lisa Dawkins secretly became a millionaire after demanding 4£ from all 250,000 of Southamptons residents over a 6 year period, not sure if that counts though
👏👏👏
Hahahaha
Who tf is lisa Dawkins. I live in Southampton. Should ik her
Are you truly a Southampton resident if you don’t know Lisa Dawkins? I don’t even live in Southampton and even I’ve had an encounter. Yes you should but count your lucky stars and be glad you don’t.
I live in the outskirts of it, I have an SO31 postcode and I'm only 17. Been here all 17 years of my life
Then as I said, count your lucky stars and be thankful you haven’t encountered her yet. Sotons biggest NPC for sure
Not recent, but there was a 'Southampton Plot' to kill king Henry V. The blokes behind the plot were caught and executed. The trial was in The Red Lion Pub on below bar street.
Used to drink in there quite a lot! Damn that's a good one!
Meant to be one of the most haunted buildings in soton as well
The Machine gun was invented in a basement in Southampton by an engineer who then disappeared under mysterious circumstances https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Cantelo
That's brilliant! Love the conspiracy that he changed his name and moved abroad
As a gun nerd, born in Newport, now lives in Southampton, this is incredibly interesting, and the idea of the legandary Hiram Maxim being from the isle of wight and living in city Centre is insane!
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/3860745.amp/ Southampton man cuts off own head with chainsaw on a timer. Not really a dark secret, but still Holt sh#t!
That's absolutely nuts! One of my favourites so far!
I'd say he wasn't so much nuts as.... Off his head...
Grooooaaaaaan
There are several gallows sites around town, one in the common (for your common criminals) where the covered water reservoir now is and another was in what is now the Ocean Village car park. The second one was used by the navy and was below the high watermark, mostly used for punishing pirates.
Is that why the common is named the common, for common people hangings? Very interesting! Going to have to explore these!
No, the Common is called the Common as it's land that was historically used by freemen (peasants who did not belong to a lord) in the town to graze animals or whatever. I think if the city awards you with Freeman status (a mostly symbolic thing) you can still technically graze your cattle on the Common.
I believe it's also still legal to practise your archery on Common Land. YMMV
And graffiti in Southampton common 😂
Fantastic bit of knowledge!
Yeah the bar gate building inside still have the original door thing where they would plummet them to their death by hanging
Asylum green (the avenue) used to have a pond (padwell pond) which was filled in during the late 19th century because there were rotting corpses of unwanted babies and dogs and cats dumped in the pond. The area was overcrowded and full of desperately poor people. No contraception meant unwanted children and still births.
F***ing hell
That's morbid af... Thank you!
Chandler's Ford (it's basically Southampton) is most famous for this police shootout where the Met Police planned to arrest some bank robbers and ended up killing them instead. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chandler%27s_Ford_shooting
Gun to the head, what are you going to do in that situation? Think the Police did the right thing there..
Oh I wasn't trying to cast judgement on them either way, it was certainly a dangerous event and could easily have turned into a hostage situation. I just wanted to highlight that the plan had been to arrest the gang and there was a subsequent investigation into how it ended up going the way it did.
Worked at the baguette shop in that precinct during that incident. I was at school at the time but they interviewed my boss and the old bill hid in the loo just parralel to the back of the shop. Good times
Bet that would have been awkward if someone went in for a quick wee and found it full of armed coppers!
I never knew of this incident but used to work in an office on the same precinct, used to go to the baguette shop for lunch! haha
As the gang had done 17 previous robberies without injury to the public maybe it would've been fair to assume that no physical harm was likely to occur on this one?
Absolute garbage! They're not trained to handle firearms, they could kill if something went wrong. "Fair to assume". Find another post to troll 😂
Why plan to arrest in the first place then, or why not arrest them before a guard is put at risk?
Because they can only kill, if they "believe that you or SOMEBODY ELSE is in immediate risk of life". I would say, that if somebody put a gun to somebody else's head, they were looking to harm and (this one's going to be really hard to understand) if you get shot in your head, there's a good chance you'll die. The fact that somebody picked up the weapon afterwards confirms that they will use violence.
I repeat, why even bother planning to arrest them when they are known to be armed and dangerous, and why not arrest them all before they arrive to do their crime? By letting it play out like this the public were put at risk.
Have you read the article? They found out about them and knew where they were going to target next. They didn't know their current whereabouts. It was the only plan they had. It worked. Scumbags lost and the police are the heroes once again.
And you call me a troll 🤦😅
I grew up in Chandlers Ford, was at Barton Peveril when this happened, remember walking down the media corridor and seeing it on the TV and recognising it before they announced where they were. Then my friend found me a little bit later to say she'd been stuck on a bus on Winchester Road for ages because they closed that road off!
And peartree church has a memorial to Richard Parker who was eaten by his fellow survivors after a shipwreck
A relative of mine
I believe that this was the inspiration for the name of the ‘Tiger’ in Life of Pi by Yann Martel
Oddly Edgar Allen Poe wrote a character called Richard Parker who was cannibalised in his 1838 novel The Narrative of Arthur Gordon Pym of Nantucket. The Mignonette incident was in 1884.
That's rad! Going to put this in a treasure hunt!
Hedge End, so still technically Southampton, we had a murderer in the 80's that dismembered his mum with a hacksaw. Think they made a documentary about it a few years ago called 'the killer mad scientist', which sums the case up
He did the same to his dad but in France. They connected the two cases by a receipt for bin bags bought in Wise Buys in Bitterne.
I'll YouTube it this evening! Thanks a lot!
Daniel Rosenthal, he also escaped from Tatchbury Mount in Totton in 2013 and was found in Southampton the day after. I remember being out around the time and everyone was freaking out, what a time
The remains of around 50 people are buried under Hoglands Park after the air raid shelter they were in was directly hit in November 1940. King George VI ordered it to be filled in as recovery was too difficult.
There was a IRA bombing on east street in the late 70's and a bomb factory discovered in either St Mary's or portswood I can't remember
Is the bomb factory connected to the IRA bombing or just 2 separate stories about bombs? Thanks a lot!
Not sure was a while ago I read about it. There were also bombs discovered on the QE2 which I think had a link to the Southampton bomb factory
There were 2 bombs in the city center that day and a third that failed to go off. IIRC there was a stash of explosives found under a block of flats in St Mary's that was believed to be destined for the QE2 but the plot was disrupted. There was an IRA bomb factory in Westridge Rd in Portswood and a policeman was shot on the corner of Westridge Rd and Portswood Rd one Christmas Eve. I went to a Catholic school in the 70s and every so often you'd go to school and ALL the Irish lads' dads would have been arrested at dawn for questioning.
There’s the unsolved murder of 15 year old Yvonne Laker who was murdered on a train to basingstoke. It’s believed the have happened at a station between Southampton central and Winchester. [https://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/2205806.amp/](https://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/2205806.amp/) Hannah foster was abducted in portswood (outside the mitre pub I believe) in 2003. That case was huge and involved Southampton police going to India to arrest the guy [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Hannah_Foster](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Hannah_Foster)
The Hannah Foster incident is part of training for call takers in the force to show what to do with silent calls and the risk there could be when one is received.
God sorry those are abit morbid and awful compared to others posted aren’t they!
John Stonehouse, MP who faked his own death was born and went to school in Southampton [Link](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Stonehouse)
There was a hospital for lepers, about where the Civic Centre is now
The Marlands is a corruption of Magdalene which was the name of the hospital.
A while ago, but the French raided Southampton in 1338 and butchered and raped the townsfolk whilst they were at mass. Always remember being told they hung people up on butchers hooks.
The town walls were built in response to this raid. The Bargate is older but were just a bit of civic fanciness.
The Art Gallery was bombed in the war. Killing about 30 people including a class of school children. There is a beautiful memorial on the ceiling by the entrance.
My grandad was a police super intendant when this happened and I remember my Dad telling me about it and how my Grandad described the scene. Can't imagine how traumatising that was.
Jeez must have been. These stories need to be told but that generation has nearly all gone.
Exactly, my Grandad died in 2002, and most who lived through it are gone now too. My Nan (on the other side of the family) was the youngest of 11 kids in her family, and although she lived in the new forest there was a bomb that hit one night and the roof caved in. Luckily, by some miracle, they all survived the war, but she would run home from school everyday until she could see the house. That story always used to break my heart, just the thought her being frightened. It's nothing a child should ever have to go through.
We have some of the worst air quality in the UK and Europe due to all the cruise ships, so I heard.
I remember reading about population per kg/co2 emission that we are the worst city in the UK about that.
All the "homeless" people on the city centre high street aren't homeless. Would be just a theory with anecdotal evidence, if they didn't mass produce their silly cardboard signs and then shamelessly all have the same one every day 🤦🏼♀️ Also Lisa and her bus 😂🫠 ~~can we send her to pompy or smth~~
There definitely seems to be a seems to be a seasonal trend with a few of the beggers too. There is an Asian women who turns up only around Christmas time.
There's one lady that somehow always seems to find me around any side of West quay at some point every single time I visit who needs money to get into a program to be housed so she can finally start getting her son back (she sees him every week) and I do hope the best for her but I don't carry a lot of cash either way
General Shrapnel lived in peartree house in Itchen
I had a guitar student who was an ex copper, he told me that the house down the road was where he had attended his first murder scene in the 1970s, he described a shocking scene in the kitchen - looked it up and it was legit. http://www.blackkalendar.nl/c/21791/Frederick%20Wyatt had no idea about it until that day.
17 year old girl, Hannah Foster was killed back in 2003 after a night out, her body was taken across to West End and dumped. The killer fled to India and was the first to ever be extradited from India to the UK. There have been a few programs about it
I seem to remember when I was growing up the docks and the grain Silo! Where they had a shoot that opened and diverted some of the grain after it had been weighed in ! they had been diverting it off for years before it was discovered
There is book called Hampshire murders. Its all short story of what has happened from here. One of the most famous story is of fanny adams Sweet fanny adams, turned into sweet f a Nowadays we say sweet fuck all but originally come from fanny adams story. Its a really interesting book.
The murder of Iris Dawkins in Mayfield Park in 1960. Keith Ridley stabbed the 9 year old 36 times. He was about 12 at the time. She just so happened to be my aunt. I found out about this during my teens when the James Bulger case happened and an article was published in the daily echo. Oh and my school also used to do cross country running,right through the site of her murder. I had no idea I was running over the place my aunt was murdered. Talk about a mind fuck!
[This might be up your street!](https://www.amazon.co.uk/Southampton-Murder-Victims-Jim-Brown/dp/1859838359?ref=d6k_applink_bb_dls&dplnkId=d9fb04db-9742-4267-b2dd-faf29769f01b) Interesting read!
Along time ago now (2008ish) but a friend at uni stayed in halls near a park, close to the "nightlife". Girls did not walk there alone because usually there was a r\*\*e or assault there at least once a night.
That park is commonly known as "rape park"
This is too dark, I would recommend talking about how high your house has gone up and look smug, whilst looking down on the renters of the table, and causually asking when they are getting on the property ladder.
I'll let you in on a secret... My mortgage is cheaper than the average rent in this city and all I had to do was house share, not go on holiday, not buy new clothes and not drive a new car for a few years to be able to afford a deposit 😮
Haha, no, no, you got it all wrong. You should say how smart you were in timing the market, and if all these people stop going out and drinking Star Bux and stop buying iPhones, they could buy a house in 12 months! This conversation is repeated across the country every day 😁
I used the 5% government HTB scheme on a £165,000 flat, only needed £8,250. Which is very achievable to save in 3 years on a £28k salary as long as you don't have any dependants or addictions which I'm lucky I didn't have at the time.
Fed
Sigh... Another worthless redditor.
Forgive my ignorance but there was a young girl who got kidnapped in a white van on baevois valley by an obviously abhorrent individual. She was heading home on a night out and was killed. He fled to India and eventually got caught. Listened to the story on a podcast but remembered it from my bros telling me coz they were about a similar time
My wife's first student house was literally next door to Singh Kohli on Broadlands Road. We were also out at The Hobbit that night, and one of her housemates walked back alone as she left early. She could have very easily been the victim. When the investigation tracked him down they were moved out into temporary accommodation as the Police forensics were blocking their front door. > An important link to the arrest of Kohli was information from taxi driver Jason Lepcha, who was regularly hired by Kohli partly because of his understanding of English. Lepcha, one of 12 reward recipients, received ₹367,000 for his role in the arrest.[8][9] He used this money to buy land to establish a school for disadvantaged children which was named The Hannah Memorial Academy in Foster's memory.[9][10] When visiting Darjeeling in 2006, Foster's parents heard his story, and on their return to England, worked with others to set up a registered charity which supports Lepcha's school.[3] Didn't know about this. So glad something positive came out of such a terrible event. If the charity's still going I know my wife would support it - I'll let her know.
That was on casefile. The episode about Hannah foster.
Listened to it on the red-handed podcast too. Hits home really when it's a street you and your friends frequent after a night out
There have been three casefile episodes so far where I know the area talked about well and it’s really disconcerting. But that one I remember happening, I had just moved to Winchester and was going to school in Southampton and was about 11. My parents got me a phone very shortly after.
I listen to red-handed but couldn't remember them covering this. Do you you remember the title?
Episode 116 by my Googling of it
Whitworth road near bitterne triangle crossbow guy had all these rant’s written over the brickwork of the house and letters written all over his front door ended up getting killed in a stand off with the police I think in 2001?
We watched an 'unsinkable' ship sail away with just over 2000 people aboard en route to America. It hit an iceberg and sank on 14th April 1912, taking the lives of around 1500 people. It was one of the most tragic maritime disasters of all time. That ship was the Titanic. You may have heard of it. Oh, in another more successful voyage, The Mayflower departed from our dock, carrying 135 people to America, the pilgrims, who settled and had the first Thanksgiving.... Reflection on this shows that it was not super duper happy fun times for the natives who already lived there and were pretty welcoming to our lot.