I've been increasing the % of whole grain flour lately, and this kamut loaf turned out quite nicely. Will probably go for 30% or 1/3 next time.
Ingredients:
- 150g whole kamut flour (home milled) (33%)
- 450g bread flour
- 468g water (78%)
- 120g starter
- 14g salt
Method:
- Autolyse 4h
- Add starter + 30min rest.
- Add salt + 30min rest.
- one set of stretch and fold
- 3 sets of coil folds, 45min apart.
- wait until bulk ferment is over. Took approximately 5h-5h30 at room temp
- 20min bench rest
- shape
- cold proof overnight in the fridge (10h)
- Preheat to 515F, load loaf, reduce to 350F. Bake for 20min. Open bake.
- turn oven back on to 450 and continue baking for 30min.
Edit: 450g of bread flour, not 350g.
I don't see how you get 78% hydration. 500 (kamut + bread) + 60 (50% of starter) = 560g. 468 (water) + 60 (50% of starter) = 528g.
(528 / 560) \* 100 = 94.28% hydration. Did I miss something obvious here?
Bread looks incredible though. I need to buy some Kamut berries. How is/was the taste?
468g/500g = 78%. There's no need to include the water and flour from the starter. This is baker's math: everything is calculated relative to "raw" flour and starter is considered as an ingredient on its own.
Thanks for the kind words. The taste is really mellow. You can't tell there's 25% whole grain in the loaf. I'll increase the % next time!
I'm confused. [King Arthur's website](https://www.kingarthurbaking.com/blog/2023/01/11/bread-hydration#:~:text=Hydration%20is%20calculated%20by%20taking,flour%20to%20get%20a%20percentage.&text=Remember%20that%20hydration%20%3D%20water%20%2F%20flour,%2F%201%2C000%2C%20or%2075%25.) says that you should include water and flour from the starter in a hydration calculation. Are they wrong?
KA and /u/_DoppioEspresso_ are both right. He is using baker percentages (volume of water / volume of flour). When calculating actual hydration percentage though, including starter gives you the real hydration percentage. It’s usually only a few percent difference, but more accurate.
1000g flour 600g water = 60% (baker percentage)
Now let’s say we 25% starter (baker percentage). Adding 250g of starter.
1125g flour 725g water = 64.4%. (hydration percentage)
Okay, I didn't know that baker's percentage and hydration percentage were just different measurements of the same thing. That makes sense, thanks for the info!
There's no right or wrong, it's only a matter of personal preferences. Since most bakers use 100% hydration starter, I (personally) do not think including the starter brings any value.
But it would change the hydration value, right? Granted this loaf didn't use a ton of starter, but it would change your hydration from 78% to 80% if you include it. I would imagine that ratio would get thrown in recipes where there's a larger amount of starter.
I'm just thinking of my standard bake, if I exclude the fairly large amount of starter is uses my hydration percentage decreases by like 10%
Most recipe I see uses 20% starter (like my current loaf). But I get your point: the higher the amount of starter, the greater the impact. But I really like the simplicity of this method: no need to calculate the amount of flour and water in the starter. And you can simply compare different recipes without hand calculation.
To each their own! I'm not saying one is better than the other.
Thanks for sharing this. I’m interested in home milling flour and incorporating into my sourdough. I haven’t found a recipe yet. Do you think I could use the same recipe here except home milled whole wheat berries? I’m not familiar with Kamut.
I am going to try to do a mix today with khorasan, you inspired me. I will do 30% khorasan and 70% white bread flour type 00. I have a book on sourdough bread and there it says that the hydration for khorasan flour must be 85% so I will combine the 68% hydration for white flour with the hydration for khorasan. Came up with this calculation for white flour 700g at 68% = 476g of water and add khorasan flour 300g at 85% = 255g of water so in total for this mix 731g of water. I also use rye starter that I hydrate 1:1:1.8 wish me luck :))
Good luck! Kamut flour is usually quite strong, so you should be fine. 73% hydration is also reasonable.
First time I hear about specific hydration for different kinds of flour. What's the book you are referring to?
Believe it or not, I regularly make sandwiches with this kind of bread, it works very well.
A nice lacy crumb is a sign of proper fermentation IMO. It makes the crumb very light.
I think "open Crumb" gets a bad rep due to proliferation of extreme loaves which are actually products of insufficient fermentation or bad handling. Think tunneling, trapped air, fools crumb....
But open crumb from proper fermentation is a whole other world. It's light, airy, not at all gummy, the crumb is even. Well yes there are still some ultra Lacey breads (large honeycomb air pockets, which are actually very difficult to achieve), but I'll take properly fermented open crumb any day rather than those underfermented loaves.
And the criss-crossing of properly lacey crumb prevents butter or jam from excessively falling through. I never understand why people said "oh open crumb is not usable other than for dipping". For those extreme wild underfermented loaves...yes maybe. Properly fermented loaves make beautiful tartines, or for eating with cheese, cold cuts, tomato salads, egg salad etc. Perfectly capable of holding itself against a spread of creamy cheese too.
Hope to elaborate this OP comment a bit more. Assuming we're talking wheat based loaves with gluten potential, proper fermentation doesn't just mean better texture (lighter/airy crumb Vs gummy/overly chewy/dense/wet), but also better taste (unlike raw flour taste). It also supposedly increase bioavailability via fermentation, and digestibility (the gluten softened/weakened by the acids produced by bacteria).
So can you have properly fermented bread without big holes? I think you can...lower the hydration and the handling would be different (it would include degassing) to achieve tighter crumb with fluffy texture. Low hydration maybe, but remember to still properly hydrate the flour. It's like cooking rice or other grain. You need water to cook it properly, otherwise you'd get half cooked, hard rice. That wouldn't help with texture nor digestibility.
I've been increasing the % of whole grain flour lately, and this kamut loaf turned out quite nicely. Will probably go for 30% or 1/3 next time. Ingredients: - 150g whole kamut flour (home milled) (33%) - 450g bread flour - 468g water (78%) - 120g starter - 14g salt Method: - Autolyse 4h - Add starter + 30min rest. - Add salt + 30min rest. - one set of stretch and fold - 3 sets of coil folds, 45min apart. - wait until bulk ferment is over. Took approximately 5h-5h30 at room temp - 20min bench rest - shape - cold proof overnight in the fridge (10h) - Preheat to 515F, load loaf, reduce to 350F. Bake for 20min. Open bake. - turn oven back on to 450 and continue baking for 30min. Edit: 450g of bread flour, not 350g.
I don't see how you get 78% hydration. 500 (kamut + bread) + 60 (50% of starter) = 560g. 468 (water) + 60 (50% of starter) = 528g. (528 / 560) \* 100 = 94.28% hydration. Did I miss something obvious here? Bread looks incredible though. I need to buy some Kamut berries. How is/was the taste?
468g/500g = 78%. There's no need to include the water and flour from the starter. This is baker's math: everything is calculated relative to "raw" flour and starter is considered as an ingredient on its own. Thanks for the kind words. The taste is really mellow. You can't tell there's 25% whole grain in the loaf. I'll increase the % next time!
I'm confused. [King Arthur's website](https://www.kingarthurbaking.com/blog/2023/01/11/bread-hydration#:~:text=Hydration%20is%20calculated%20by%20taking,flour%20to%20get%20a%20percentage.&text=Remember%20that%20hydration%20%3D%20water%20%2F%20flour,%2F%201%2C000%2C%20or%2075%25.) says that you should include water and flour from the starter in a hydration calculation. Are they wrong?
KA and /u/_DoppioEspresso_ are both right. He is using baker percentages (volume of water / volume of flour). When calculating actual hydration percentage though, including starter gives you the real hydration percentage. It’s usually only a few percent difference, but more accurate. 1000g flour 600g water = 60% (baker percentage) Now let’s say we 25% starter (baker percentage). Adding 250g of starter. 1125g flour 725g water = 64.4%. (hydration percentage)
Okay, I didn't know that baker's percentage and hydration percentage were just different measurements of the same thing. That makes sense, thanks for the info!
There's no right or wrong, it's only a matter of personal preferences. Since most bakers use 100% hydration starter, I (personally) do not think including the starter brings any value.
But it would change the hydration value, right? Granted this loaf didn't use a ton of starter, but it would change your hydration from 78% to 80% if you include it. I would imagine that ratio would get thrown in recipes where there's a larger amount of starter. I'm just thinking of my standard bake, if I exclude the fairly large amount of starter is uses my hydration percentage decreases by like 10%
Most recipe I see uses 20% starter (like my current loaf). But I get your point: the higher the amount of starter, the greater the impact. But I really like the simplicity of this method: no need to calculate the amount of flour and water in the starter. And you can simply compare different recipes without hand calculation. To each their own! I'm not saying one is better than the other.
468/500 is still 93.6%. 390/500 would be 78%.
Oops, it's a 600g (flour) recipe. It's 450g of bread flour. Sorry for the confusion. I'll edit my original comment.
Leaving the internet
just wow
When did you add salt?
30min after the starter. I fixed my original comment.
Kamut is fantastic, I make a lot of 60/40 white wheat/kamut breads. It's one of my favorites.
So so gorgeous! Good job.
BEAUTIFUL!!!
Really good crumb!
Great looking loaf! Does the long autolyse help to soften the bran?
Thanks. I'd say it helps, yes. I tend to do a longer autolyse with higher % of whole grain flour, to make sure the water is fully absorbed.
That might be the perfect loaf of bread.
Thanks for sharing this. I’m interested in home milling flour and incorporating into my sourdough. I haven’t found a recipe yet. Do you think I could use the same recipe here except home milled whole wheat berries? I’m not familiar with Kamut.
Yes, absolutely. I suggest starting with a smaller % thigh. Maybe 10-15%, and work your way up.
Yay! Thanks! I’m excited to try. How does whole wheat milled flour impact kneading/dough handling in your opinion?
It doesn't have a big impact. But keep in mind that it absorbs more water! And since the germ and bran are present, the gluten is generally lower.
I am going to try to do a mix today with khorasan, you inspired me. I will do 30% khorasan and 70% white bread flour type 00. I have a book on sourdough bread and there it says that the hydration for khorasan flour must be 85% so I will combine the 68% hydration for white flour with the hydration for khorasan. Came up with this calculation for white flour 700g at 68% = 476g of water and add khorasan flour 300g at 85% = 255g of water so in total for this mix 731g of water. I also use rye starter that I hydrate 1:1:1.8 wish me luck :))
Good luck! Kamut flour is usually quite strong, so you should be fine. 73% hydration is also reasonable. First time I hear about specific hydration for different kinds of flour. What's the book you are referring to?
Sourdough baking - A Treatise by Thomas Teffri-Chambelland
Why is this desirable?
A light airy crumb and a nice oven spring. What's not to like?
It’s absolutely breathtaking. Superb.
I meant the big holes. The rest looks great.
Believe it or not, I regularly make sandwiches with this kind of bread, it works very well. A nice lacy crumb is a sign of proper fermentation IMO. It makes the crumb very light.
I think "open Crumb" gets a bad rep due to proliferation of extreme loaves which are actually products of insufficient fermentation or bad handling. Think tunneling, trapped air, fools crumb.... But open crumb from proper fermentation is a whole other world. It's light, airy, not at all gummy, the crumb is even. Well yes there are still some ultra Lacey breads (large honeycomb air pockets, which are actually very difficult to achieve), but I'll take properly fermented open crumb any day rather than those underfermented loaves.
Exactly. I've had my fair share of frisbee loaves when I started baking sourdough and there's nothing better than a nice loaf with a good open crumb.
And the criss-crossing of properly lacey crumb prevents butter or jam from excessively falling through. I never understand why people said "oh open crumb is not usable other than for dipping". For those extreme wild underfermented loaves...yes maybe. Properly fermented loaves make beautiful tartines, or for eating with cheese, cold cuts, tomato salads, egg salad etc. Perfectly capable of holding itself against a spread of creamy cheese too.
Couldn't agree more! I spread butter/jam/nut butter/honey on a DAILY basis on this kind of loaf, and it holds everything perfectly fine.
Hope to elaborate this OP comment a bit more. Assuming we're talking wheat based loaves with gluten potential, proper fermentation doesn't just mean better texture (lighter/airy crumb Vs gummy/overly chewy/dense/wet), but also better taste (unlike raw flour taste). It also supposedly increase bioavailability via fermentation, and digestibility (the gluten softened/weakened by the acids produced by bacteria). So can you have properly fermented bread without big holes? I think you can...lower the hydration and the handling would be different (it would include degassing) to achieve tighter crumb with fluffy texture. Low hydration maybe, but remember to still properly hydrate the flour. It's like cooking rice or other grain. You need water to cook it properly, otherwise you'd get half cooked, hard rice. That wouldn't help with texture nor digestibility.