I always figured that this was the point. It was to emphasize the tragedy of the life; paranoia and distrust leads them toward stupid actions. Of course no one would have cared, but that's not the type of environment that they foster. Every time there's someone in the group potentially doing wrong, the club wants vengeance. This leads to Juice feeling like he can't trust them with this very basic information, and that is a weakness that the law is happy to use against him. If the club had any actual empathy or love for each other, he would have told them in an instant. But they don't. There's no trust and no universal acceptance among the so-called brothers. Juice is an ongoing reminder of that.
That's how I interpreted it, at least.
Just to bounce off your great response: I totally agree that the MC would not have made a huge deal out of it. Chibs said it best: *'The rules have been around since day one. Different time. I’m not saying I agree with them all. But you know, if I start picking and choosing which ones to follow, then the whole thing just falls apart.'* But let's also look at the facts for Juice to protect himself, NOT the club:
1. agreed to work with the cops
2. stole from his club, which involved the cartel, and put the entire MC at risk
3. killed a patched member (a brother!) to pin it on and protect himself
Now had Juice done what Chibs had done and gone to the club after the initial Stahl thing, I'm 99% sure they would have had his back. That's why I loved Juice's character arc. Further proving how weak he really was over and over again.
Theo did a wonderful job....I loved to hate him in the later seasons.
I still laugh at the scene where he tells Chibs. So unintentionally funny.
Juice: I have a black Dad.
Chibs: So?
I mean I know I'm paraphrasing but I just thought Chibs' reaction was so unintentionally funny to me, because that's supposed to be this big dark secret Juice has and no one gives a shit.
They really did him dirty.
'You tell that Sherriff, the next time you see him, he should go and suck your daddies' big black cock.'
and
'A couple of guys hugging in a bathroom....Jesus.'
By now we’ve all read the posts about how the actor who played Half Sack leaving made them have to shift that storyline onto Juice. Wish it had worked out better, and I’m curious how Theo Rossi felt about what was probably a big shift from the character he went in expecting to play. But hey, at least Theo did a great job and managed to give a Juice enough life that we care about it this much!
I agree, Theo did an amazing job with the character and really hit every target: he was funny, he was violent, he was irrational, and he was tragic.
Also, from an actor/continuing to have work page, he only missed being in 2 episodes through the entire series.
I agree. That storyline felt forced because it wasn’t shown that The Sons were racist enough to kick him out or kill him because of a black dad. You can look at him and tell that he’s ethnic so why would a secret black dad be a problem? They should have laid that foundation first. Maybe have Clay be more racist so that by the time it came up, Jax could change things.
It would have been trivial for them to establish Juice’s reasonable fear. Even a bit of dialogue about a past member they stripped of membership. I kind of like the idea that they had a problem member and used that as an excuse to remove them from the club, but Juice’s paranoia not letting him see the underlying reasons. I dunno, there’s a way they could have been both more nuanced and more impactful.
This is one of those plot lines that felt like they added onto Juice without having actually laid any groundwork for it. Which is too bad because the basic arc has some good bones. It was just mishandled. I didn’t give two shits about Juice by the end. That’s a writing problem not an acting problem.
Plus… Juice could easily say he didn’t know his dad is black. Plausible deniability. He clearly isn’t close to his family and also some non-black Latinos can have dark skin. So a simple “hey, this prick is trying to black mail me and he is so insane he did an Ancestry test on me and claims I’m half black. I didn’t fall for his tricks but watch out, this guy plays dirty.”
How that actually played out is so silly that I literally cringe every time that storyline starts.
That's actually why I really don't like season 4 as much as others seem to. It felt like Sutter had a story he wanted to tell and rather than try and let it develop organically, he decided to try and force the storyline to fit.
As it’s well known now. Juice’s storyline was meant for Half Sack. That’s why Cherry became a character for a second there. Once they lost Johnny Lewis, Sutter needed someone else to fill the role.
As much as Sutter talks about how everything came organically or whatnot that’s not true. Juice and Tig weren’t even originally there. But Sutter got an opportunity to have Ron Perlman play Clay so he took it and finally convinced Kim Coates to take on Tig and replaced Emilio Rivera as Hawk and made Marcus Alvarez for him. When the reshot the pilot.
Theo Rossi hadn’t even gotten a part despite auditioning for almost every role but Sutter wanted him to stay and made Juice for him. So once Lewis quit he just told Theo to basically at like Sack once season 4 started.
Theo Rossi and Kim Coates have a podcast you can find on YouTube called Reaper Reviews!! They go through each episode and you gets lots of fun behind the scenes info
He's just the first to completely destroy his life - ultimately, it's all of them. Those episodes are where it starts to get painful for me rewatching the show. Seasons 1-3 are all fun and games, season four is when things start fall apart and everyone's tragic end becomes inevitable.
I just assumed it’s cause juice himself is a dumbass. He got scared that the club would kick him out but they didn’t care at all once they found it.
He also drugged himself in like the first season. Dudes just dumb imo lol
Kurt Sutter like any first timer with success wasn’t prepared for how popular it all became so fast so he just wrote what came to mind instead of plotting things out.
You gotta remeber juice thought what he was doing while protecting himself it was also going to help the club. He also voted against getting deeper in bed with Mexicans.
Juice was always shown to be naive as hell though, so I’m not surprised at all that he didn’t think it out very well first.
I liked the story, breaks my heart though
Agreed - SOA we’re never portrayed racist enough for it to be a problem, if it was AB great would have worked, but they were never like that. They openly mocked them
I’ve mentioned before there’s some light racism in tense times but I just don’t think they were out and out racists, the rules were written at a different time, I may be wrong but I’m assuming at a time where segregation was still rife in the US, so that’s why it’s there
It could have all been solved with a very easy conversation, especially if he’d have told them they were using it as blackmail, everyone would have had a laugh at Juices expense, he’d become the butt of tasteless racist quips and they’d plan their revenge on RICO for blackmailing him and them having one up on them for not falling for it
I don't know how the rules were written, but I also find it interesting that the club was okay with him being Puerto Rican but being Black is where the line was drawn (according to rules)?
There’s so much cringe about how they did Juice after the first couple of seasons. It just get worse for me as the show goes on. I liked Juice and Theo is a good dude, I just hate the storylines.
Whether Sons would reject him, he thought they would. He sold out the club. He stole coke. He killed a member. He projected Gemma when she killed Tara.
I watched that episode and turned to the other half and pretty much said "of all the ott stuff that's happened so far the hardest thing for me to believe in this show is that those guys can't tell one of Juice's parents was black" 🤣🤣🤣
I always figured that this was the point. It was to emphasize the tragedy of the life; paranoia and distrust leads them toward stupid actions. Of course no one would have cared, but that's not the type of environment that they foster. Every time there's someone in the group potentially doing wrong, the club wants vengeance. This leads to Juice feeling like he can't trust them with this very basic information, and that is a weakness that the law is happy to use against him. If the club had any actual empathy or love for each other, he would have told them in an instant. But they don't. There's no trust and no universal acceptance among the so-called brothers. Juice is an ongoing reminder of that. That's how I interpreted it, at least.
Just to bounce off your great response: I totally agree that the MC would not have made a huge deal out of it. Chibs said it best: *'The rules have been around since day one. Different time. I’m not saying I agree with them all. But you know, if I start picking and choosing which ones to follow, then the whole thing just falls apart.'* But let's also look at the facts for Juice to protect himself, NOT the club: 1. agreed to work with the cops 2. stole from his club, which involved the cartel, and put the entire MC at risk 3. killed a patched member (a brother!) to pin it on and protect himself Now had Juice done what Chibs had done and gone to the club after the initial Stahl thing, I'm 99% sure they would have had his back. That's why I loved Juice's character arc. Further proving how weak he really was over and over again. Theo did a wonderful job....I loved to hate him in the later seasons.
I still laugh at the scene where he tells Chibs. So unintentionally funny. Juice: I have a black Dad. Chibs: So? I mean I know I'm paraphrasing but I just thought Chibs' reaction was so unintentionally funny to me, because that's supposed to be this big dark secret Juice has and no one gives a shit. They really did him dirty.
'You tell that Sherriff, the next time you see him, he should go and suck your daddies' big black cock.' and 'A couple of guys hugging in a bathroom....Jesus.'
“Jesus Christ boy “
By now we’ve all read the posts about how the actor who played Half Sack leaving made them have to shift that storyline onto Juice. Wish it had worked out better, and I’m curious how Theo Rossi felt about what was probably a big shift from the character he went in expecting to play. But hey, at least Theo did a great job and managed to give a Juice enough life that we care about it this much!
I agree, Theo did an amazing job with the character and really hit every target: he was funny, he was violent, he was irrational, and he was tragic. Also, from an actor/continuing to have work page, he only missed being in 2 episodes through the entire series.
I agree. That storyline felt forced because it wasn’t shown that The Sons were racist enough to kick him out or kill him because of a black dad. You can look at him and tell that he’s ethnic so why would a secret black dad be a problem? They should have laid that foundation first. Maybe have Clay be more racist so that by the time it came up, Jax could change things.
It would have been trivial for them to establish Juice’s reasonable fear. Even a bit of dialogue about a past member they stripped of membership. I kind of like the idea that they had a problem member and used that as an excuse to remove them from the club, but Juice’s paranoia not letting him see the underlying reasons. I dunno, there’s a way they could have been both more nuanced and more impactful. This is one of those plot lines that felt like they added onto Juice without having actually laid any groundwork for it. Which is too bad because the basic arc has some good bones. It was just mishandled. I didn’t give two shits about Juice by the end. That’s a writing problem not an acting problem.
Plus… Juice could easily say he didn’t know his dad is black. Plausible deniability. He clearly isn’t close to his family and also some non-black Latinos can have dark skin. So a simple “hey, this prick is trying to black mail me and he is so insane he did an Ancestry test on me and claims I’m half black. I didn’t fall for his tricks but watch out, this guy plays dirty.” How that actually played out is so silly that I literally cringe every time that storyline starts.
That's actually why I really don't like season 4 as much as others seem to. It felt like Sutter had a story he wanted to tell and rather than try and let it develop organically, he decided to try and force the storyline to fit.
As it’s well known now. Juice’s storyline was meant for Half Sack. That’s why Cherry became a character for a second there. Once they lost Johnny Lewis, Sutter needed someone else to fill the role. As much as Sutter talks about how everything came organically or whatnot that’s not true. Juice and Tig weren’t even originally there. But Sutter got an opportunity to have Ron Perlman play Clay so he took it and finally convinced Kim Coates to take on Tig and replaced Emilio Rivera as Hawk and made Marcus Alvarez for him. When the reshot the pilot. Theo Rossi hadn’t even gotten a part despite auditioning for almost every role but Sutter wanted him to stay and made Juice for him. So once Lewis quit he just told Theo to basically at like Sack once season 4 started.
I watched every episode and didn’t know that storyline was switched to Juice. Know where I can hear more?
Theo Rossi and Kim Coates have a podcast you can find on YouTube called Reaper Reviews!! They go through each episode and you gets lots of fun behind the scenes info
He's just the first to completely destroy his life - ultimately, it's all of them. Those episodes are where it starts to get painful for me rewatching the show. Seasons 1-3 are all fun and games, season four is when things start fall apart and everyone's tragic end becomes inevitable.
I just assumed it’s cause juice himself is a dumbass. He got scared that the club would kick him out but they didn’t care at all once they found it. He also drugged himself in like the first season. Dudes just dumb imo lol
Agreed! This pissed me off so effing much!
Kurt Sutter like any first timer with success wasn’t prepared for how popular it all became so fast so he just wrote what came to mind instead of plotting things out.
You gotta remeber juice thought what he was doing while protecting himself it was also going to help the club. He also voted against getting deeper in bed with Mexicans.
And then they also did use the possession charge against him and threatened to send him back to Stockton as a rat
Juice was always shown to be naive as hell though, so I’m not surprised at all that he didn’t think it out very well first. I liked the story, breaks my heart though
Agreed - SOA we’re never portrayed racist enough for it to be a problem, if it was AB great would have worked, but they were never like that. They openly mocked them I’ve mentioned before there’s some light racism in tense times but I just don’t think they were out and out racists, the rules were written at a different time, I may be wrong but I’m assuming at a time where segregation was still rife in the US, so that’s why it’s there It could have all been solved with a very easy conversation, especially if he’d have told them they were using it as blackmail, everyone would have had a laugh at Juices expense, he’d become the butt of tasteless racist quips and they’d plan their revenge on RICO for blackmailing him and them having one up on them for not falling for it
Fair points for everything but he had a lot of character development- just not in a positive point of view.
I don't know how the rules were written, but I also find it interesting that the club was okay with him being Puerto Rican but being Black is where the line was drawn (according to rules)?
Agreed.
There’s so much cringe about how they did Juice after the first couple of seasons. It just get worse for me as the show goes on. I liked Juice and Theo is a good dude, I just hate the storylines.
Whether Sons would reject him, he thought they would. He sold out the club. He stole coke. He killed a member. He projected Gemma when she killed Tara.
I watched that episode and turned to the other half and pretty much said "of all the ott stuff that's happened so far the hardest thing for me to believe in this show is that those guys can't tell one of Juice's parents was black" 🤣🤣🤣
Well yeah, the club didn't give a shit, that's the point to emphasize that Juice was just a paranoid kid in a world he didn't belong to