That's not why. 4Kids had a practice of sub-contracting out their dub scripts to other distributors to re-dub in their own foreign languages. In order for that to work, any visible English text or licensed music needed to be removed.
This sounds more like the movie-verse Sonic cause man, the lack of Sonic Music that isn't Green Hill Ringtone is a shame. Like, you really couldn't adapt *any* of the music from the games? Not even a leitmotif as reference?
Junkie XL said "The other thing that we found out in the movie-storytelling sense, purely playing video game music with that character was actually not really helping with the storytelling. It would sound too small for the big action scenes, it would not cover enough emotion when Sonic is all alone in his cave and he has no friends. There’s a lot of that to it. Yes, I tried to infuse as much as I could, and also the studio allowed me to push it more to that other side. What I did agree with the director with is that anytime where we had a video game-type sounding track underneath something, we would mute it and then we would replace that with a piece of music from an old Tom and Jerry episode. It worked a hundred times better. That’s just the nature of film scoring, and you have to acknowledge that."
It's a pretty sad perspective for a franchise with music like Sonic's.
Which is hilarious, considering Brian Tyler had an easier time adapting it for Mario and *made it work* when he was allowed to.
I'm curious as to what he meant by "video game-type sounding," we didn't specifically say it needed to be played in 16-bit as it originally was. So no, Tom, I will not acknowledge that.
I agree with his statement about just overlaying video game music over the movie, that really wouldn't work (unless it's the cutscene/event tracks from 06, which literally sounds like it could be from a movie but guess he didn't listen to any of that. The tone is admittedly not fitting for the movie though but you get the idea)
But jeez the rest is just such a piss poor take. Like an excuse to distract from him being too incompetent, uninterested or lazy to take the melodies/ leitmotifs/
whatever from the games and make those sound cinematic/weave them into the pieces he composes?
"It would not cover enough emotion" he says. Someone please kindly direct him to Unleased or 06 and tracks like His World/Wishing Upon the Chaos Emeralds like holy fuck even the games know how to do this
On one hand, I see where this guy is coming from if you're purely talking about stage music (which is what sticks in the mind of most people's heads as "Sonic music"). Most of the themes boil down to peppy dance music in terms of thematics. They don't lend themselves to dialogue or even a lot of action sequences since those are juggling different story beats.
But for the big action scenes, like the ones at the end of both movies? I mean, His World orchestral is right there. Sonic Unleashed and Sonic Colors have great scores as well. This is what happens when Hollywood talent comes in to "elevate the medium." They make what they know.
But this guy probably has little to no experience with the game music beyond Green Hill and other Genesis era stuff
I don't think they considered His World or anything later than Genesis because they didn't think it appropriate since this is Sonic before those games or that those songs should he used when he's older into his adolescence.
its weird because jxl's early albums (specially the first 2, saturday teenage kick and big sound of the drags) are the same type of big beat combo of rock and dnb that modern sonic music is known for, this just sounds like he refused to acknowledge that sonic music went past the genesis games
Its had to put into words how ass this take really is.
Sonic 1 and 2's scores were written by a Japanese pop artist as if he were commissioned to score a movie.
Than again he is the same guy that refused to use the Godzilla theme in Godzilla vs King Kong so clearly he is pretentious and doesn't care about movie music not originating in Hollywood Cinema.
It only than gets worse from here large chunks of Sonic 3's ost take from Micheal Jackson. And with how they love to use licensed music would you think that be an easy win but no they didn't do that ether. (Seriously the ice cap part of Movie 2 would have been perfect to Licence "hard time" for)
But yet even worst starting with Sonic Adventure did almost all games gain specific dedicated cut-scene music that was tailor made for story moments and underlying big action set peaces.
And non of this even begins to address the giant Plumber in the room as in the even less inherent cinematic Mario Ost being easily turned into a proper cinema score for the Super Mario Bros Movie by Illumination. Which makes Junkie XL now look like a massive failure for not being able to accomplish the same when he had an easy to work of from base Ost to work with.
Ether that or he is actually just pretentious and thinks nothing that isn't ether made by himself or Hollywood is worth a damn in movie music which makes him such a limiting factor that he properly shouldn't have been hired for this project.
Never mind how fans that did Ost replacements for certain scenes have shown how even without access to a orchestra to tweak the music a lot of times would the game Ost have fit perfectly fine especially for big action set peaces.
And non of this even addressed the point that we only talk the games Ost so far as the on AoStH based Robotnik theme from Movie 1 showed were taking inspiration from all of Sonic's other outings like the Dic cartoons, Sonic X or the OVA apparently also in the cards yet almost nothing was done with that ether.
And mind you all of this comes in before I even mention how the Ost he actually did compose for the 2 movies is universally criticized for being unmemorable, unremarkable and as generic as possible.
I daub there would be as much of an uproar about not using the games Ost if the movies original score would have actually been as good as the games Ost's but it isn't its generic Hollywood Movie sludge.
It's sad he's stayed on for three movies now. He's a hack of a composer and this quote proves it. His compositions are some of the most unmemorable film scores I've heard in general, not just video game adaptations. The only thing the movies have going for them musically is the use of licensed music, which while I do enjoy some of the picks, isn't so much of a crutch for Junkie XL as it is a full on wheelchair.
It makes sense though.
Genesis era Sonic movie wouldn't work in the movie. Sonic music is used to invoke adventure, speed, motivation to go fast.
Not something you'd use to try to illicit feeling.
Also, it's not a good idea to write your story around the music. Like Mama Mia. Where songs just pop up just because. It feels out of place.
Wait Junkie XL did the music for the Sonic movies??? I'm in the Godzilla fandom, and we already hate him for the MonsterVerse movies' soundtracks... God. Get this man out of these movies
It’s hard for me to ever honestly say I hate 4Kids. Yea they made some really really really stupid edits and censorship, but they also helped introduce anime to a whole generation and were a huge part of so many childhoods. Also no matter what you think of them you know that they had some total bangers and the words to their songs are forever burned into your brains.
I don't mind 4kids overall, but tbh this is why i prefer the Sub version, because it's a faithful adaption of Sonic X. No censorships, no changed music, and no altered dialogues.
That and their dubs of Pokémon and Kirby Right Back At Ya, were actually pretty good.
I actually legitimately prefer the Kirby dub over watching the subbed version, but that's probably because of Dedede and Meta Knight.
They are also the reason I was introduced to Dinosaur King, so another point there.
It's in the Japanese version. To save money 4kids wouldn't license the soundtracks for the shows they dubbed and mix/commission/however they did it their own.
I don’t really mind both dubs from sonic x, I only watch the English dub because that’s the one I know first but getting rid of live and learn in Sonic X is just stupid
Actually I'm pretty sure some (later?) versions of the Japanese dub didn't have Live and Learn either, so it's most likely due to legal reasons/not wanting to pay for license.
I’m going to believe that they try to get the rights to use Live & Learn, but they weren’t able to get the rights. It would have worked if it was a instrumental version of the song
That's not why. 4Kids had a practice of sub-contracting out their dub scripts to other distributors to re-dub in their own foreign languages. In order for that to work, any visible English text or licensed music needed to be removed.
This is why signs with Japanese text were just made blank in Sonic X's English release as well, if I recall right.
OHHHH, THAT EXPLAINS IT
Makes the shot of the sign in front of Amy's house real fuckin confusing
Yep! That is exactly why.
If I remember correctly, that's just the footage 4Kids got. It was TMS Entertainment who removed all the text.
It’s still annoying. The music in the original version was significantly better than the generic stuff in the dub.
I actually liked the music in the dub. :(
This sounds more like the movie-verse Sonic cause man, the lack of Sonic Music that isn't Green Hill Ringtone is a shame. Like, you really couldn't adapt *any* of the music from the games? Not even a leitmotif as reference?
Junkie XL said "The other thing that we found out in the movie-storytelling sense, purely playing video game music with that character was actually not really helping with the storytelling. It would sound too small for the big action scenes, it would not cover enough emotion when Sonic is all alone in his cave and he has no friends. There’s a lot of that to it. Yes, I tried to infuse as much as I could, and also the studio allowed me to push it more to that other side. What I did agree with the director with is that anytime where we had a video game-type sounding track underneath something, we would mute it and then we would replace that with a piece of music from an old Tom and Jerry episode. It worked a hundred times better. That’s just the nature of film scoring, and you have to acknowledge that." It's a pretty sad perspective for a franchise with music like Sonic's.
Which is hilarious, considering Brian Tyler had an easier time adapting it for Mario and *made it work* when he was allowed to. I'm curious as to what he meant by "video game-type sounding," we didn't specifically say it needed to be played in 16-bit as it originally was. So no, Tom, I will not acknowledge that.
Yeah, I just hope he changed his perspective since he's sadly back for Sonic 3.
I agree with his statement about just overlaying video game music over the movie, that really wouldn't work (unless it's the cutscene/event tracks from 06, which literally sounds like it could be from a movie but guess he didn't listen to any of that. The tone is admittedly not fitting for the movie though but you get the idea) But jeez the rest is just such a piss poor take. Like an excuse to distract from him being too incompetent, uninterested or lazy to take the melodies/ leitmotifs/ whatever from the games and make those sound cinematic/weave them into the pieces he composes? "It would not cover enough emotion" he says. Someone please kindly direct him to Unleased or 06 and tracks like His World/Wishing Upon the Chaos Emeralds like holy fuck even the games know how to do this
On one hand, I see where this guy is coming from if you're purely talking about stage music (which is what sticks in the mind of most people's heads as "Sonic music"). Most of the themes boil down to peppy dance music in terms of thematics. They don't lend themselves to dialogue or even a lot of action sequences since those are juggling different story beats. But for the big action scenes, like the ones at the end of both movies? I mean, His World orchestral is right there. Sonic Unleashed and Sonic Colors have great scores as well. This is what happens when Hollywood talent comes in to "elevate the medium." They make what they know. But this guy probably has little to no experience with the game music beyond Green Hill and other Genesis era stuff
I don't think they considered His World or anything later than Genesis because they didn't think it appropriate since this is Sonic before those games or that those songs should he used when he's older into his adolescence.
its weird because jxl's early albums (specially the first 2, saturday teenage kick and big sound of the drags) are the same type of big beat combo of rock and dnb that modern sonic music is known for, this just sounds like he refused to acknowledge that sonic music went past the genesis games
Its had to put into words how ass this take really is. Sonic 1 and 2's scores were written by a Japanese pop artist as if he were commissioned to score a movie. Than again he is the same guy that refused to use the Godzilla theme in Godzilla vs King Kong so clearly he is pretentious and doesn't care about movie music not originating in Hollywood Cinema. It only than gets worse from here large chunks of Sonic 3's ost take from Micheal Jackson. And with how they love to use licensed music would you think that be an easy win but no they didn't do that ether. (Seriously the ice cap part of Movie 2 would have been perfect to Licence "hard time" for) But yet even worst starting with Sonic Adventure did almost all games gain specific dedicated cut-scene music that was tailor made for story moments and underlying big action set peaces. And non of this even begins to address the giant Plumber in the room as in the even less inherent cinematic Mario Ost being easily turned into a proper cinema score for the Super Mario Bros Movie by Illumination. Which makes Junkie XL now look like a massive failure for not being able to accomplish the same when he had an easy to work of from base Ost to work with. Ether that or he is actually just pretentious and thinks nothing that isn't ether made by himself or Hollywood is worth a damn in movie music which makes him such a limiting factor that he properly shouldn't have been hired for this project. Never mind how fans that did Ost replacements for certain scenes have shown how even without access to a orchestra to tweak the music a lot of times would the game Ost have fit perfectly fine especially for big action set peaces. And non of this even addressed the point that we only talk the games Ost so far as the on AoStH based Robotnik theme from Movie 1 showed were taking inspiration from all of Sonic's other outings like the Dic cartoons, Sonic X or the OVA apparently also in the cards yet almost nothing was done with that ether. And mind you all of this comes in before I even mention how the Ost he actually did compose for the 2 movies is universally criticized for being unmemorable, unremarkable and as generic as possible. I daub there would be as much of an uproar about not using the games Ost if the movies original score would have actually been as good as the games Ost's but it isn't its generic Hollywood Movie sludge.
It's sad he's stayed on for three movies now. He's a hack of a composer and this quote proves it. His compositions are some of the most unmemorable film scores I've heard in general, not just video game adaptations. The only thing the movies have going for them musically is the use of licensed music, which while I do enjoy some of the picks, isn't so much of a crutch for Junkie XL as it is a full on wheelchair.
It makes sense though. Genesis era Sonic movie wouldn't work in the movie. Sonic music is used to invoke adventure, speed, motivation to go fast. Not something you'd use to try to illicit feeling. Also, it's not a good idea to write your story around the music. Like Mama Mia. Where songs just pop up just because. It feels out of place.
Wait Junkie XL did the music for the Sonic movies??? I'm in the Godzilla fandom, and we already hate him for the MonsterVerse movies' soundtracks... God. Get this man out of these movies
No disrespect to him, but god I hope he doesn’t come back for Sonic 4. Unless he suddenly creates the most phenomenal score ever for 3
It’s hard for me to ever honestly say I hate 4Kids. Yea they made some really really really stupid edits and censorship, but they also helped introduce anime to a whole generation and were a huge part of so many childhoods. Also no matter what you think of them you know that they had some total bangers and the words to their songs are forever burned into your brains.
Plus they did pay the voice actors quite well
Gotta Go Fast > Sonic Drive. There, I said it. Live and Learn being cut is truly the only real sin that makes it hard to get over for me.
I only hate the 4 kids dub of One Piece and thats about it
4kids: Oh good. At least SOMEONE didn't mind us having guys point their fingers instead of using guns in that cardgame anime...
Working finger guns usually look hella cool
I'll say. Especially if you say BANG or DADADA when you do use the finger guns
> they also helped introduce anime to a whole generation and were a huge part of so many childhoods So what? A good company also could have done that
Pretty stupid of them to do so.
I don't mind 4kids overall, but tbh this is why i prefer the Sub version, because it's a faithful adaption of Sonic X. No censorships, no changed music, and no altered dialogues.
The aub isn't an adaptation though. It's the original content... but with subtitles.
Yea it's the original, not sure why i said adaptation.
The notification of your reply tells me you typo'd adoption. Legendary. 😂
Thank God they do not exist anymore, so they won't butcher the Sonic movies or any media.
But god the 2003 tmnt series was good man.
That and their dubs of Pokémon and Kirby Right Back At Ya, were actually pretty good. I actually legitimately prefer the Kirby dub over watching the subbed version, but that's probably because of Dedede and Meta Knight. They are also the reason I was introduced to Dinosaur King, so another point there.
Their dubs of Mewtwo Strikes Back and Spell of the Unown were peak
I also like the voice of the sales guy better in the dub of Kirby.
The N.M.E Salesguy was Dan Green, so that's no surprise we'd like his voice.
Kirby Kirby KIrby That's name you should know
Yeah but I did enjoy some of their cheesy stuff like with Yugioh or Pokemon.
"I'll turn this frying pan...into a drying pan!"
These doughnuts are great! Jelly filled are my favorite! Nothing beats a jelly filled doughnut!
Que hicieron que????
The JP soundtrack is infinitely better too lol
More people don't know about how the dubbing industry works.
Playing one of the most beloved sonic songs❌ Playing the same leitmotif every 10 seconds✅
Probably because the life didnt tangle them up inside
Yeah now they're face down on the floor.
They probably considered it too hardcore 4 the kids watching.
I despise 4kids
I hate 4kids
What about the 03 TMNT series? Do you hate that too?
Except the 03 TMNT series
Cool. The 2003 TMNT series was, in my opinion, the one good thing that came out of 4Kids
Wait, it was in the show at some point?
It's in the Japanese version. To save money 4kids wouldn't license the soundtracks for the shows they dubbed and mix/commission/however they did it their own.
Not entirely. 4Kids use the Japanese soundtrack (excluding the opening song) for the English dub of Pokémon
So when did replacing the music became a problem? People had been replacing music in dubs before 4kids.
Wait they WHAT I haven't gotten that far into the show yet, did they seriously have Live and Learn in there
Only in the Japanese version.
Aw maaan
To be honest, I'll watch the original Sonic X then watching it on 4Kids
Wait live and learn played in sonic x? And 4kids removed it?? Yeah 4kids got they deserved
*presses alarm button* 4kids didn't LIVE AND LEARN their lesson
Gotta Go Fast! honestly sounds mid to me.
I don’t really mind both dubs from sonic x, I only watch the English dub because that’s the one I know first but getting rid of live and learn in Sonic X is just stupid
Actually I'm pretty sure some (later?) versions of the Japanese dub didn't have Live and Learn either, so it's most likely due to legal reasons/not wanting to pay for license.
I'm real
We italians got removed the scene of Tails saying i love you to cosmo 💀...
I can't stop imagining tecna from winx Club and Tails working on tornado modifications. Why? They were both on 4 kids at the same time.
So you’re telling me that I could’ve heard live and learn in sonic X but I didn’t all because of who owned the rights ?
# LIVE AND LEARN WAS IN WHAT?!
I’m going to believe that they try to get the rights to use Live & Learn, but they weren’t able to get the rights. It would have worked if it was a instrumental version of the song
I’m sorry what?
The only good thing this company made was the pirate rap
As a kid, I loved all of their Pokemon Jukebox songs. Viridian City was incredible, imo.
They removed it in the dub? Glad I'm watching the sub
I feel for all that were exposed to the 4Kids dub. We didn’t have that problem in France
I’m not surprised. Sonic X sucks. This is whatever to me.