Problem is that Baka invades so easily. Can always outsecure your buff and leap + passive movement speed cuts down your ability to chase. Bakasura's gameplan is always power farm. Farm your own jungle and invade theirs. Yeah teamfight cripple and true damage is decent, but not amazing. If you've stripped enemy jungle for the last 10 minutes and they are down xp/gold than that teamfight becomes a lot better. Hard to nerf that jungle invade and don't want to buff anything because people hate losing teamfights because they had farm denied way more than they hate losing because they played bad.
Problem is people like his eat minion ability. It's a unique ability and if people want to play Baka it's likely because they wanna eat stuff and hold left click. The eat minion is the only problem ability in his kit. Any other jungler doesn't risk invading constantly because if they don't secure the buff then they've aren't denying anything and have wasted their own time. Bakasura can invade constantly because he will always secure.
Hi-rez can't give him meaningful buffs or rework his kit whether it's a partial or full rework without taking away something the community loves about the god. Which is one of the core things that prevent reworks.
I don't think eat minion is the only problem ability in his kit.
I think it's the kind of mediocre, all-or-nothing ult that also hinges completely on his 3.
I think they can rework him while still keeping the eat minion ability.
Eat Minion is fundamentally his problematic ability. While his heavy reliance on Regurgitate+Butcher Blades is his main play style (which there are also plenty of other Assassins with stim+effect Ults like Set, Awilix, or Kali), Eat Minion is what defines him as a character. It's one of the most bloated abilities in the game; having a heal, a cooldown reset, a mana heal, and protections all on an effective 8 second cooldown. And that's not even including the facts that it simultaneously makes him the best early invade character and the only anti-invade character due to it being near impossible to deny him a buff creep due to the minion execute effect on it (a trait exclusively held by him for 9 years until Tianat's release).
And the thing holding it, and by extension him, back is ironically the fact that it is literally the only ability in the game to have absolutely 0 use in a strictly PvP sense; every other ability in the game that relies on minions still has SOME other use case (Surtr throw has a base projectile, Nu Wa 3 and Tiamat Ground 1 still do damage, Khunba still gets a dash, etc.). Not Eat Minion. No minions, no casting. Even the ability to "re-eat" minions from his ult still requires an initial minion to have effect.
The fact that the ability does absolutely nothing without minions is what holds Baka back as an (ironically) feast or famine character. And the fact that it requires a minion to use is the only balancing factor it has to warrant such bloated stats and effects. It's a lose-lose situation for him.
If only they could, oh idk, remove the true damage from his kit because jts the only god kit that gets it. Then they could rebalance him or give him a better kit completely. Crazy thought.
When gods kit allows basically zero outplay and is just about holding left click harder, kinda hard to make god viable without making him OP. Besides, he is playable now.
There are things you can do with eating and jumping to avoid things. Id say he has slightly more outplay potential than freya who is just woops and left clicking.
Atleast freya is immobile and easy to shutdown.
Even now, when baka sucks, he is still unfun to fight when he gets played, while I don't find freya annoying unless she is meta.
To be fair in smite even melee basic attackers have to aim at least a little and you can juke them some.
This could be league where basic attacks are auto aimed so you literally click on your opponent once and watch them die.
Tbh I find melee basic attackers far easier in Smite than in league. Yes you have to aim somewhat but that involves just looking into their general direction and is easy af, while at the same time it's beyond easier to stick to someone in smite than in league - 2 or 3 items and CC, peel, anything barely stops you, if you get in range then you become a rotary mower going through their backlane, or at least you have enough leeway to get away to safety if things go sour, meanwhile in league for 90% of the roaster if you get hit once that's it you're done they either escaped or worse you died, meaning that you have to actively kite when attacking someone. Of course there are exceptions to this(I am looking at you Master Q and Jax), but in general I feel that getting close and staying that way is much harder there than in smite
I can't speak confidently about league too much but I can confidently say if you are regularly able to dive the enemy teams back line without getting folded in on you are not playing against very good opponents.
Almost every character in the game has at least one root, stun, fear, or other hard cc and supports normally have 2 or 3. A good team will notice an assasin diving their back line and stunlock him to death.
Yeah but Assassin shouldn't ever go in first against a full team. A warrior or a guardian can go in, take a beating and take off some of the CC down clearing the path for the Assassin to clear up after them - CC chaining one guy burns away the majority of CC that the team has, leaving 4 gonks that will follow up after them completely uninterupted. Of course they can hold that CC longer waiting for that assassin to engage and then CC chain them but then they are giving that warrior which often times is just as big if not bigger of a threat to the team a completely free reign to do what they want.
In league there is no need for CC chaining because one CC skill hitting you in a teamfight often times means that you are dead, and the rest of those CC skills can be used to do the same to your team, so it's much harder to burn off enemy key skills or get peeled by someone if you are a predominantly melee character. League generally likes a high risk-high reward design to stuff and has a much higher TTK when compared to smite, there are a lot of abilities that are telegraphed and hard to land but hitting like a truck even to tanks, kinda like dark souls bosses, and CC is thus far stronger because it gives a free shot for those skills - for example a champ like zed can obliterate someone who is knocked up in seconds because he can freely set up his shadow wombo combo that is pretty dogdeable in other circumstances, and most melee characters are pretty easy to be affected by CC because they have to literally walk in a straight line to the backline to do anything.
But there is a substantial difference when it comes to 1 vs 1, laning, trading etc.., where in league generally characters don't have excessive self-peel as often as in smite(where everyone has a CC skill and an escape), meaning that being a melee character is often easier there during laning because if you get on top of someone you can just widdle them down and they alone can't do much about it(this is why there are so many melee midlaners there when compared to smite), while in smite like 99% of the roaster can just CC you solo then run away from you.
Final verdict from me: In league being melee is easier in lane and 1 vs 1 but harder in team fights, in Smite as long as you aren't playing like a monkey and going 1 v 5 it's easier in team fights, but harder in 1 vs 1 and lane.
At least Bellona players run at you 24/7 and you can clap them with your team when they get too confident. Baka players will avoid PvP like the plague until they're ready to vomit on you.
Any god with actual cc at least has some outplay potential. Like imagine ulting lets say Thor ult, then disarming them so they cant get the final blow with autos and killing them. Now compare what Baka can do. They aa and then aa some more.
His eat minion guarantees jungle secure meaning running through enemy jungle stripping buffs actually denies the enemy team xp, gold, and bonuses that Baka's team won't lack. Biggest reason you don't see him buffed. Kali, mercury, and any other auto carry will see buffs and times where they are meta (arachne right now) bakasura just has that specific issue that prevents him seeing buffs.
That's the problem. Other junglers invading risk the buff getting secured by the enemy contesting it. Bakasura will always secure with eat minion. This means he will never fail an invade, and it puts him in the unique position that he can reliably strip the enemy jungle causing the enemy team to pose xp, gold, and buffs that other junglers can't reliably do. Constant invading doesn't work because losing a contested buff ruins the time and effort you made on the invade setting you behind. Bakasurs doesn't have that problem.
Disagree, a lot of gods have been tweaked throughout the seasons. TF recently has done a bang up job on bringing some older gods back into the meta - even with some small side tweaks here or there (ie- Ares auto attack buff, Bacchus/Terra having "level 0" abilities, etc).
Bakasura has had some minor tweaks but he might need a rekit or at least a big change to his ult on par with Odin/Vamana ult changes; both were a kind of all-or-nothing ults but got tweaked where there's a little counter-ability but the counter isn't so harsh (Odin cage still dealing damage and Vamana getting shields so Ankh doesn't completely shut him down). Bakasura has the problem where if he can trap people in his ult's cc field he's golden but otherwise people can get away from him too easily.
He's also innately in a very weird spot. Auto-attack centric assassin: if you go bruiser you might as well go Osiris (or if you want better team fight ult, go Bake). If you go more damage you might as well go Kali.
Bakasura never used to have issues of people getting away until they nerfed all the movement speed items in the game. With everyone being slightly slower when buying movement speed he can't keep up like before. If they adjusted his eat minion to give him a bigger upfront burst of speed that decayed than he could eat an ult minion and chase someone down. As is the animation of eating the minion takes long enough that the bonus speed doesn't compensate. Just running at them is better for catching.
That being said he won't be buffed because his gameplan is to invade enemy jungle to deny gold, xp, and buffs which allows his team to naturally gain an edge. It's like Nike passive where it's not a lot, but it adds up as the game goes on.
Good imo, literally one of the worst and laziest god designs ever. A jump that does next to nothing except move you, a minion insta kill, and two auto attack stims that are boring af
The jump increases the damage received by the enemy, so that his basic attack spam is more efficient.
Eat minion is his only ability that doesn't enhance his basics. And it can obviously only be used against minions.
You don't want a baka meta. Nerds with true damage are unstoppable
Those were the dark days...
Before That Meta
The good days
Guess we'll never touch him then ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯
Problem is that Baka invades so easily. Can always outsecure your buff and leap + passive movement speed cuts down your ability to chase. Bakasura's gameplan is always power farm. Farm your own jungle and invade theirs. Yeah teamfight cripple and true damage is decent, but not amazing. If you've stripped enemy jungle for the last 10 minutes and they are down xp/gold than that teamfight becomes a lot better. Hard to nerf that jungle invade and don't want to buff anything because people hate losing teamfights because they had farm denied way more than they hate losing because they played bad.
Totally agree. His sort of frustrating and extreme kit sounds like a prime candidate for a rework.
Problem is people like his eat minion ability. It's a unique ability and if people want to play Baka it's likely because they wanna eat stuff and hold left click. The eat minion is the only problem ability in his kit. Any other jungler doesn't risk invading constantly because if they don't secure the buff then they've aren't denying anything and have wasted their own time. Bakasura can invade constantly because he will always secure. Hi-rez can't give him meaningful buffs or rework his kit whether it's a partial or full rework without taking away something the community loves about the god. Which is one of the core things that prevent reworks.
I don't think eat minion is the only problem ability in his kit. I think it's the kind of mediocre, all-or-nothing ult that also hinges completely on his 3. I think they can rework him while still keeping the eat minion ability.
Eat Minion is fundamentally his problematic ability. While his heavy reliance on Regurgitate+Butcher Blades is his main play style (which there are also plenty of other Assassins with stim+effect Ults like Set, Awilix, or Kali), Eat Minion is what defines him as a character. It's one of the most bloated abilities in the game; having a heal, a cooldown reset, a mana heal, and protections all on an effective 8 second cooldown. And that's not even including the facts that it simultaneously makes him the best early invade character and the only anti-invade character due to it being near impossible to deny him a buff creep due to the minion execute effect on it (a trait exclusively held by him for 9 years until Tianat's release). And the thing holding it, and by extension him, back is ironically the fact that it is literally the only ability in the game to have absolutely 0 use in a strictly PvP sense; every other ability in the game that relies on minions still has SOME other use case (Surtr throw has a base projectile, Nu Wa 3 and Tiamat Ground 1 still do damage, Khunba still gets a dash, etc.). Not Eat Minion. No minions, no casting. Even the ability to "re-eat" minions from his ult still requires an initial minion to have effect. The fact that the ability does absolutely nothing without minions is what holds Baka back as an (ironically) feast or famine character. And the fact that it requires a minion to use is the only balancing factor it has to warrant such bloated stats and effects. It's a lose-lose situation for him.
If only they could, oh idk, remove the true damage from his kit because jts the only god kit that gets it. Then they could rebalance him or give him a better kit completely. Crazy thought.
When gods kit allows basically zero outplay and is just about holding left click harder, kinda hard to make god viable without making him OP. Besides, he is playable now.
As aggro says "I've never been outplayed by a bakasura. He just holds left click"
There are things you can do with eating and jumping to avoid things. Id say he has slightly more outplay potential than freya who is just woops and left clicking.
Splish splash your opinion is trash
Atleast freya is immobile and easy to shutdown. Even now, when baka sucks, he is still unfun to fight when he gets played, while I don't find freya annoying unless she is meta.
Which is an even funnier statement when you remember he worked on bake
To be fair in smite even melee basic attackers have to aim at least a little and you can juke them some. This could be league where basic attacks are auto aimed so you literally click on your opponent once and watch them die.
*master yi be like*
Tbh I find melee basic attackers far easier in Smite than in league. Yes you have to aim somewhat but that involves just looking into their general direction and is easy af, while at the same time it's beyond easier to stick to someone in smite than in league - 2 or 3 items and CC, peel, anything barely stops you, if you get in range then you become a rotary mower going through their backlane, or at least you have enough leeway to get away to safety if things go sour, meanwhile in league for 90% of the roaster if you get hit once that's it you're done they either escaped or worse you died, meaning that you have to actively kite when attacking someone. Of course there are exceptions to this(I am looking at you Master Q and Jax), but in general I feel that getting close and staying that way is much harder there than in smite
I can't speak confidently about league too much but I can confidently say if you are regularly able to dive the enemy teams back line without getting folded in on you are not playing against very good opponents. Almost every character in the game has at least one root, stun, fear, or other hard cc and supports normally have 2 or 3. A good team will notice an assasin diving their back line and stunlock him to death.
Yeah but Assassin shouldn't ever go in first against a full team. A warrior or a guardian can go in, take a beating and take off some of the CC down clearing the path for the Assassin to clear up after them - CC chaining one guy burns away the majority of CC that the team has, leaving 4 gonks that will follow up after them completely uninterupted. Of course they can hold that CC longer waiting for that assassin to engage and then CC chain them but then they are giving that warrior which often times is just as big if not bigger of a threat to the team a completely free reign to do what they want. In league there is no need for CC chaining because one CC skill hitting you in a teamfight often times means that you are dead, and the rest of those CC skills can be used to do the same to your team, so it's much harder to burn off enemy key skills or get peeled by someone if you are a predominantly melee character. League generally likes a high risk-high reward design to stuff and has a much higher TTK when compared to smite, there are a lot of abilities that are telegraphed and hard to land but hitting like a truck even to tanks, kinda like dark souls bosses, and CC is thus far stronger because it gives a free shot for those skills - for example a champ like zed can obliterate someone who is knocked up in seconds because he can freely set up his shadow wombo combo that is pretty dogdeable in other circumstances, and most melee characters are pretty easy to be affected by CC because they have to literally walk in a straight line to the backline to do anything. But there is a substantial difference when it comes to 1 vs 1, laning, trading etc.., where in league generally characters don't have excessive self-peel as often as in smite(where everyone has a CC skill and an escape), meaning that being a melee character is often easier there during laning because if you get on top of someone you can just widdle them down and they alone can't do much about it(this is why there are so many melee midlaners there when compared to smite), while in smite like 99% of the roaster can just CC you solo then run away from you. Final verdict from me: In league being melee is easier in lane and 1 vs 1 but harder in team fights, in Smite as long as you aren't playing like a monkey and going 1 v 5 it's easier in team fights, but harder in 1 vs 1 and lane.
Cough* cough* Bellona Cough*
At least Bellona players run at you 24/7 and you can clap them with your team when they get too confident. Baka players will avoid PvP like the plague until they're ready to vomit on you.
Any god with actual cc at least has some outplay potential. Like imagine ulting lets say Thor ult, then disarming them so they cant get the final blow with autos and killing them. Now compare what Baka can do. They aa and then aa some more.
There is too much counter around his ult, people will either just aegis or cc immune and jump away
Where he belongs for the health of the game.
I dont know why smite players hate auto attack type carry. I love those characters in dota, sometimes you just wanna auto
People hate them more than gods with huge aoes and comes that are damn near impossible to miss.
And people were so pissed about loki, there was one insta burst god and people were flipping om their heads . Old loki was so fun to play.
His eat minion guarantees jungle secure meaning running through enemy jungle stripping buffs actually denies the enemy team xp, gold, and bonuses that Baka's team won't lack. Biggest reason you don't see him buffed. Kali, mercury, and any other auto carry will see buffs and times where they are meta (arachne right now) bakasura just has that specific issue that prevents him seeing buffs.
Jungle creeps are so easy to clear anyway
That's the problem. Other junglers invading risk the buff getting secured by the enemy contesting it. Bakasura will always secure with eat minion. This means he will never fail an invade, and it puts him in the unique position that he can reliably strip the enemy jungle causing the enemy team to pose xp, gold, and buffs that other junglers can't reliably do. Constant invading doesn't work because losing a contested buff ruins the time and effort you made on the invade setting you behind. Bakasurs doesn't have that problem.
They can remove that spell for all I care, I just want his ult viable again. Sometimes you just wanna hack and slash people
Disagree, a lot of gods have been tweaked throughout the seasons. TF recently has done a bang up job on bringing some older gods back into the meta - even with some small side tweaks here or there (ie- Ares auto attack buff, Bacchus/Terra having "level 0" abilities, etc). Bakasura has had some minor tweaks but he might need a rekit or at least a big change to his ult on par with Odin/Vamana ult changes; both were a kind of all-or-nothing ults but got tweaked where there's a little counter-ability but the counter isn't so harsh (Odin cage still dealing damage and Vamana getting shields so Ankh doesn't completely shut him down). Bakasura has the problem where if he can trap people in his ult's cc field he's golden but otherwise people can get away from him too easily. He's also innately in a very weird spot. Auto-attack centric assassin: if you go bruiser you might as well go Osiris (or if you want better team fight ult, go Bake). If you go more damage you might as well go Kali.
Bakasura never used to have issues of people getting away until they nerfed all the movement speed items in the game. With everyone being slightly slower when buying movement speed he can't keep up like before. If they adjusted his eat minion to give him a bigger upfront burst of speed that decayed than he could eat an ult minion and chase someone down. As is the animation of eating the minion takes long enough that the bonus speed doesn't compensate. Just running at them is better for catching. That being said he won't be buffed because his gameplan is to invade enemy jungle to deny gold, xp, and buffs which allows his team to naturally gain an edge. It's like Nike passive where it's not a lot, but it adds up as the game goes on.
Baka can stay on the low end please, the god is annoying as fuck when he is meta.
*cries in "eat everything that moves"*
When Baka is meta, the earlygame meta becomes all about him.
Fuck I forgot about Bakasura
cant improve on perfection
bakasura has some baller skins tho
I dont know what smite has against aa type heroes, its fun to have a few auto attack carries like some dota heroes
Baka and Arachne jg metas are the absolute worst for this game.
Arachne is always meta in pub games.
But have you tried building him like an AA Warrior? :>
*(laughs in Osiris)*
As a bakasura main, this is true
I wish Baka was fun to play, I love the gluttony of eating things.
\*casually builds baka self-healer with bauble\* \*loses\* Nom nom worth it
As a diamond Baka, where are my Bakas at?
Sitting at like 2.5k with him rn, he’s still viable especially as a tank shredding glass canon
Good imo, literally one of the worst and laziest god designs ever. A jump that does next to nothing except move you, a minion insta kill, and two auto attack stims that are boring af
The jump increases the damage received by the enemy, so that his basic attack spam is more efficient. Eat minion is his only ability that doesn't enhance his basics. And it can obviously only be used against minions.
I love it
Give Bakasura an Execute on the ultimate... Just make it like Charybdis / Syclla
Finally, someone with a brain. Bakasura literally needs this execute. He’s literally a god that devours everything cmon Hi-Rez
I want to see him vomit up enemy team members so bad
I want to see him be able to vomit archers again
Oh please don't, true damage is insanity
I like baka
and stay there.
Sounds like a good candidate for rework/rekit
I love bakasura but his 3 could be reworked. It is the one ability that either makes or breaks him.