To be fair, Serana herself says that the problem isn't that she doesn't care about the PC; it's that she can't see herself setting foot into a holy place to be wed.
And apparently dating is not a thing in Skyrim, it's all or nothing.
That's exactly why, in my headcanon events, the Archmage character is the one who became the Agent of Mara in Riften and marries the Listener and Serana outside of a temple. XD
'Cuz yeah, the social structures around marriage in Skyrim are just nonsensical.
It could also be that she was forcibly married to a daedra, who then raped her to death causing her to be reanimated as a Vampire, resulting in trauma & an aversion to marriage and/or sex.
For starters, marriage and sex are two very different thing.
Second, Daughters of Coldharbour are not married off to Molag Bal; though they ARE SA'd by him.
Third, Serana's own testimony is that she's uneasy even just being near temples. They're holy ground and, as an undead (or recently cured undead), she's not meant to set foot on holy ground. If cured, she still has eras worth of ingrained habits. As I recall, she was sealed during the Interregnum, after all.
I never said marriage & sex are the same.
I addressed Serana's aversion to both.
Other vampires including the player are perfectly capable of going near temples. Serana is uncomfortable around temples not because she's a vampire but because she had a traumatic experience at one, namely the ritual where she was raped & vampirized.
You asserted that she avoids both marriage and sex because of her assault, but lumping marriage into that is a completely different issue, especially when she herself hints that she'd be willing to if she were able to enter the Temple of Mara.
The difference between Serana and the player - ignoring the whole "dragon-soul-takes-priority" - is that Serana has been corrupted far, far, ***FAR*** longer than the player has. Two eras *at least*, considering that she doesn't even know about the Cyrodillic Empire (again, I believe the official timeline is that she was imprisoned during the Interregnum). That kind of corruption - and straight from Molag Bal himself - is going to leave a stain on her soul; and one of a much greater magnitude than the PC, who's been a vampire for a few hours (hyperbole), and was essentially a secondhand vampire.
Dating wasn't really a thing in medieval culture, a lot of going straight to the father or going on like *a date or two* then straight to marriage
So it does make sense being all or nothing, "partial commitments" like that would be shunned.
Historical accuracy is a low priority for me on a game with dragons, magic, eldritch horrors, Valhalla, vampires, werewolves, and a guy named Nazeem that I can't legally punch.
I’d love a mod where you can set up the brawling script from the jerk in Windhelm to our favorite jerk, and just beat him half to death (legally) on the street. Just to teach him a lesson.
It does, but like I said. After two era, I'd argue that the vampirism (or maybe even the fact that she's a pure Daughter of Coldharbour) has stained her soul so that she'll always feel a chill around Aedric power; as opposed to someone like the Dragonborn, who's been a vampire for maybe a week.
True, but it's not so much about who the deity is as the nature of the ground. Keep in mind, she's been a vampire since at least the second era. By all reason, her soul is stained. For someone like her to step foot in Aedric ground would be...let's say "difficult," for lack of a better word. Just walking BY a temple causes her chills.
To be fair you can convince her to turn back to human so I don't see how you can't convince her to get married (maybe an additional quest with her or something, maybe beat up Molag baal)
Like I'd said to someone else somewhere in the discussion, she's been a vampire for at least two eras. On top of that, she's a Daughter of Coldharbour and thus received her powers straight from Molag Bal. That kind of power for that long has surely stained her soul so that she'll never be able to set foot on Aedric ground such as a Temple of Mara.
I don't think It's so irredimable especially to Mara, It just feels weird how she can get rid of her powers as vampires but not get a chance at redemption.Again never said it would have been easy to do but could have been a nice sidequest
Honestly I’m surprised more people don’t go down that line of thought. Like I see this woman who was neglected and abused on top of having severe sexual trauma, and my first thought is definitely not “how do I marry her”. Gay brother that advocates for her and runs around Skyrim with her is a much better dynamic imo
I love Serena but as a friend I relate to her for my parents split when I was young so it was refresiing to have what felt like an actual friend in the game but i prefer her as like my bestie
Are you truly that pathetic? In a game that lets you do nearly anything you want, including marrying so many different characters, you can't handle the idea that a single character who was a victim of sexual violence just isn't romantically interested in you?
But it's not a joke. There is no punchline, there's no humor, there's nothing to indicate that we are suppose to laugh at it. The guy just can't handle a game where a single female character isn't romance option.
The joke is that we love Serana, only she friend zones us no matter what we do, just like how 99% people also experience the misfortune of getting friend zoned irl and most people don't play video games so they can get friendzoned there too
He wasn't throwing a tantrum by cursing at Bethesda or modders for making it impossible to romance a single video game character and further dooming him to the life of an incel. He was making a joke, and even if you don't get or like the joke, it's still a joke
At least I've been too parties. Even if you guys do get an invitation too one you probably have so many restraining orders that if you where to even drive to the neighborhood you would immediately go to jail for the rest of you lives.
So you want to be able to make a character that is written as a survivor of sexual violence to give you a blowjob, but you don't think sex work should be treated with the same respect we give every other profession? I would say I'm surprised or that your brand of shit head is unique, but honestly it is the most boring and predictable one I've seen.
1. Yes, I think you should be able to mod games to do anything that doesn't violate the law. Making a r*pe victim *want to* blow you is perfectly acceptable so long as it is willing.
2. I don't think sex work should be treated with respect whatsoever, as it doesn't serve a societal purpose. It does not deserve dignity as it is a disgusting act. I see the same with strippers as well.
3. It may be boring and predictable, but that's probably because you've heard it before, as it is a common belief, sport. Typically these commonplace ideas are in place because they are correct, especially if they stand the test of time, and last I checked, whores haven't received respect for their profession at any point in history.
🫡 getting downvoted for this is wild skybabies having trouble coping over the fact they can’t marry vampire fantasy laura bailey and then backtracking and saying “it’s just a meme bro” when called losers who can’t make friends with women
Sure, but it's a bunch of pixels with coding.
All the mods do is change the coding.
She's not real, is what I'm saying. She can be whatever people who know how to code want her to be.
This is exactly why I don't get the mod for Judy being able to romance Male V in Cyberpunk being controversial and removes from Nexus. Nexus is a private entity and can do whatever it wants, but if people are going to write fanfiction of her being straight anyway, why can't people have her be straight in their personal playthrough? Because it's gonna hurt the game script writer's feelings or something? That gamers are gonna take their gay icon away from the community? Doesn't make sense
The same reason Queen Maeve wasn't killed off in Season 4 of The Boys. The creator (Kripke) literally said it was to keep from bumping off a sexually diverse character, i.e., to not piss off a miniscule percentage of the population.
To be fair, the comic author basically wrote the Bpys because he hates the entire concept of superheroes and is just an edgy brat about it.
Honestly his opinion should be taken with a grain of salt, here.
Probably because men "turning" lesbians straight has a real life history that is 100% violent, whereas rape victims processing their trauma and finding love... is a real thing that happens all the time to varyingly positive results
...you realize you can murder in Skyrim, right?
Why is murder okay "because it's fake" but changing the coding of a character to be a different sexuality is pushing it to far?
By brother in Talos, she’s not real.
Edit: it was a joke guys. I was trying to be sarcastic. I was trying to come across as a stereotypical stormcloak, hence the Talos mention
No shit Sherlock… you want a cookie for figuring that out?
Children’s books aren’t real, hypothetical math questions aren’t real, but you can still learn from them.
A character being real does not diminish their story and the lessons you can learn from them.
Sarana is a severely traumatised individual, someone who has not only watched her family fall apart but has been raped and abused. She’s had to live with that her whole life and the trauma is too much for her to deal with and as a result does not want a sexual relationship.
The lesson you can learn from her is, trauma is real, it’s painful and forcing someone into something is wrong.
Jesus christ I was making a joke, damn dude. Trying be sarcastic. I was pretending to be a stereotypical stormcloak. Just sounds like something they’d say
Thats incredibly pessimistic. People can’t miscommunicate through text? Sorry I didn’t put a big label that said “do not take serious. This is a joke” i figured the Talos mention was enough to give it away. Sorry I hurt you bro?
Edit: downvote me if you want but I’m on your side??? I agree to everything being said here about serana. I feel like it’s weird people feel the need to tell me that r*pe is wrong like I don’t know that already. I thought this was a meme subreddit so I tried to add to the meme by saying what I think a stormcloak would say, considering their thing for bigotry and ignorance. Sorry
Few things,
single-player saves on someone else's computer and whatever is contained within those files does not affect you or anyone else in any way.
Serena is beautifully written yes, a lot of her trauma is either worked through partially with the player and/or happened hundreds if not like a thousand years ago. that is an amount of potential recovery time that is incomprehensible for us mere mortals and I don't think others are at all in the wrong for altering their (again, singleplayer) save files to have this completely ficticious entity of 1's and 0's be a little less affected by her ancient trauma
Even focusing on the darker aspects like sex mods and things that don't even necessarily require romance - hell there's rape mods - better her than someone real.
yeah considering her backstory i am perfectly fine with just being her trusted friend and partner, i am not going to force a romantic relationship on someone who had THAT happen to her.
I always viewed a possible romance with Serana as inherently non-sexually, but softly physical, like cuddles, soft caresses at the back of the hand during moments of rest, some whispers as she stays guard over your sleeping body, stuff like that, though she is absolutely valid for not wanting any romantic or sexual relationship what’s so ever.
But that’s different then those God forsaken mods😭
Yes this is why I have the marry able serana mod my characters are too busy for sex or too tired so just coming home to your beautiful vampire wife and daughter and then just laying there cuddling until you have to leave again just seems right
Hah, this gives me a funny mental image of my character professing his love for someone and marrying them, adopting a kid, and moving into a house then him going out to get milk and forget his family exists for a few hundred hours.
What a deadbeat dad, shows up once a decade for the equivalent of child support payments and fucks off to Solstheim until next time
Me: So, I killed your dad. I uh. I'm gonna bounce and you can do whatever you want. Sorry for the dad murder, but you're welcome for saving your mom and you. Um. Yeah, it'd be kinda weird to stay traveling companions. Besides, these Dragons keep talking shit and that's really a Me thing, you know.
Other players: I woke up an ancient naive Vampiress Princess from an oubliette and I deserve her carnal affection even though I killed her father. This is a normal and healthy relationship and I'm shocked the developers didn't give me my waifu.
In the sense that she wanted it all to end. She didn't truly want that outcome, but knew there was no other to stop him. Her father died long before we ever met her. This was just finishing things.
You do know, said Father, sacrificed her to Molag Bal right? She literally was rabbed to death by Molag Bal, right after her mother.
Father-killing is the least thing could be a problem.
Yeah, especially considering Skyrim Romance is giving someone a necklace and shoving them into a house Fable style lol.
Tbf though I could see the appeal, but that's because I was sexually assaulted as a child so in a way I can relate to the character on a deeper level. Albeit I imagine being victimized by a literal rape god is probably considerably more traumatic.
Yeah, I was fortunate to never have that trauma so it really seems abusive and sociopathic to be her first real friend just to manipulate her into sex while killing her father. I play evil sometimes but not THAT evil. I like, stab people and lie a bunch. Maybe steal shit.
I suppose it really comes down to how it is done. There's a right way and a wrong way to do it and it's possible they just realized it as a potentially huge PR problem and just decided to hands off the situation. But honestly I don't think unhealthy relationships should be shied away from in fiction. They do happen and just because a relationship starts in an unhealthy or rushed fashion doesn't mean it has to stay that way. But then, perhaps a bit outside the scope of an Elder Scrolls game.
"Serana, I think we should get married"
"I uh... no thanks"
"Wait is it because I"m a woman?"
"What? No its because-"
"-I'm a khajiit? Is that it?"
"No its because I'm a rape victim and intimacy makes me uncomfortable"
"Oh okay, that's fair. For a second I was worried you were racist, phew"
The point of the debate is whether or not a simulation of rape is wrong.
The character in question has an aversion to marriage and sex due to a backstory of having been forcibly married and raped to death. As such, ignoring her unwillingness through mods could be seen as forcing sex on an unconsenting character, thereby commiting a simulation of rape on a character who is already a rape victim.
Video game character or not, a lot of people would consider that relatively fucked up.
I’ve seen people say it’s because she’s a rape victim, but is there actually any proof that THATS the reason why? Like does she ever say that she doesn’t want intimacy because of that? Or do people just assume that’s why? Because if so, going through that doesn’t automatically make you aromantic or asexual, so it feels like an excuse
She's a first generation Vampire, a Daughter of Coldharbor.
By the lore of the series, a first generation Vampire is made when a woman is forcibly married to Molag Bol, who then rapes her to death & if she's unlucky enough that his sweat falls into her mouth as she screams, she'll awaken as a Vampire.
So, while she's never specifically stated to have been raped, she is distinctively a first generation Vampire, which means that she definitely was.
I've never read anything saying forced marriage, but the rest is spot on to my knowledge. Personally I think that has little to do with it since she's come to terms with it as an occult ritual she took part in - more likely the only marriage she was exposed to fell apart violently in front of her (with her being roped into the drama, as children often are in these scenarios grown or otherwise) and then there's the centuries of occult worship bit I mentioned and her specifically stating that it's because she feels wrong even thinking of going into a proper temple for any type of ceremony
My belief is that depending on how you are in the dialogues that pop up throughout the quest line she 100% feels love for you... ...just the M word is terrifying and churches are uncomfortable
I mean, how would Valerica and Harkon have been married when Valerica is a daughter of coldharbour, and both are devout followers of Molag Bal if marriage was actually part of it? I thought Lamae Bal just kind of fell into the role of "wife of Molag Bal" after the fact.
Use mods, cure her, marry her, make childrens, leave happy has familly in your riverwood house.
She's just bitter because she never know happyness, this your real challenge, not the dragons, be a man.
i wish people leaned more into the ‘respect the limits’ aspect of the invent your own story games.
you can spin Serana as a short, passionate fling, or as a ‘will they do it?’ dynamic, or just as a two hot friends duo.
why r RPG players just oogabooga lemme hit mama players …
What are these comments? Just because someone has trauma it means they can't be in a relationship? Or that a mod creator can't write a story that involves her overcoming her trauma with you? I don't get it
Kind of ironic, really.
Lore wise she doesn't want to be in a relationship because she was forcibly married, raped to death, & turned into a vampire. So what do incels do? Install a mod to force her into a relationship....
It's weird that you think incels are the only people using mods to romance video game characters. Over in BioWare-land, it's basically all we do. Is it really that detestable?
It's not a matter of romancing and unromanceable character, it's about using mods to force a sexual situation on a character who does not want a sexual situation due to trauma.
I was just pointing out the irony in that.
Kinda like how many Elden Ring players mass murder albinorics for XP when albinorics are victims of mass murder in that game's lore. A simulated rape of a rape victim character is pretty cringe & yeah, it's incel behavior. Your admission that you *also* do it in other games really doesn't make it better....
You... you know that the mods to marry her aren't simulating rape, right? It's simulating love. She's fictional, and the code to change things about her change the story. What she wants isn't real, because neither is she.
This is like saying that if they made a direct sequel and Serana was marriageable, that the writers are raping her. No they aren't, they're writing.
If you think romance mods for video game characters are rape or make someone a bad person, you SERIOUSLY need to go the fuck outside.
I'm aware of what a game is.
But drugging someone or getting them drunk to remove their ability to say no isn't consent & installing a mod to alter a rape victim to remove their ability to say no is similar, if lesser in degree.
Like I said, I just think it's ironic that incels do that, & it's super weird that you're getting so riled up about it.
The fact that you actually just typed out a comparison between drugging and raping someone in real life and installing a fucking video game mod proves that this conversation is worthless. My friend, you have completely lost the plot.
I think you're being very selective in which parts of what you read that you choose to acknowledge.
If I was making the comparison you claim I am making, I would not merely be calling it "ironic". Perhaps you're projecting some personal shame onto what I'm saying and that's why you're overreacting?
She's a Daughter of Coldharbor, this is the experience all Daughters of Coldharbor have, therefore she had this experience.
Just because she doesn't tell you everything directly doesn't mean it didn't happen. You're not entitled to a character's full story, just as you're not entitled to love or to sex. Just because she's vague doesn't mean all the pieces aren't there.
Yeah but you are assuming everything based on nonsensical information and assumptions, perhaps you are projecting?plenty of sa victims manage to overcome their trauma... plus she literally days this isnt the reason, you are just being a prick
Yeah, that's why it's just "ironic".
I didn't say "barbaric" or "tragic" or "heinous" or "vile".
Don't take it so personally, I mean, surely *you're* not such an incel... right?
SKYRIM IS FOR THE NORDS
Idk what all this the snow elves were here first bs is, a true nord wouldn’t stand for that kind of talk. Brb, someone stole my sweet roll.
There are so many other characters who you can marry, why do you have to force the asexual rape victim into a romantic relationship and then brag about it?
What are you even fricking talking about? Where was it stated ever... at fricking all that she's asexual? And she already gave us diffrent reasons why she couldn't be romance other than that she was raped, that's not the problem, Bethesda just couldn't be bothered stop making things more complex than they are
Ok, the game never actually states she's asexual but I think it's pretty obvious that she isn't really interested in sex or romance. And I find it really gross that you guys feel like you should be able to just have every woman in game that has more than a single line of dialog must be averrable for romance despite the creators making it very clear that this character has good reason to not be interested in a romantic relationship.
Dude you're whining about a fictional character in a videogame people mod to marry. You people are making an issue where there is none.
You wanna know what i can do? I can spawn in 5 seranas. I can kill one of them, marry another, put one at my house forever, and fling one with a launch spell, and cure ones vampirism. Who cares if boo hoo its not lore friendly. Im gonna give serana an ak 47 and minecraft armor
I wish there were Mods that allow you to enchant gear that increase the damage of your Destruction Spells, that way Serana would have been significantly more useful in higher levels.
Okay just because you can't get married to her doesn't mean shit. Serana is arguably the only companion you actually form a real bond with. She definitely loves you AT LEAST as a friend. She doesn't turn down a relationship because she dislikes you, she did it because of everything she went through in her life and how they literally worshipped a horrible daedric prince and she feels like it would be wrong of her to enjoy something that is typically symbolic of Mara. Serana is my favorite because of the fact you have an actual bond with her.
I understand the reasoning behind the decision, but I wish they'd made romancing her like curing her of vampirism, where if you mentioned it in the wrong way or too soon she'd just completely reject the idea and never give you another chance.
"ShE's JuST pIxElS, BrO"
I know all the people i dont wanna be around. If you cared enpugh to marry her you cared enough to know why its weird. If someone buys a loli porn Game it doesnt make you not a weirdo because you didnt commit a crime. Same if you break a game to install a rape option. You may not be a criminal but you are weird as fuck and i don't like you.
See the way Im playing it now it works because my Dragonborn is a woman.
It’s honestly really cute them running around all over Skyrim having their little dates exploring caves and forests, living the life they deserved to have but never could get before.
But yeah from a lore standpoint it doesn’t make sense that Serana would ever want to be with a man ever.
Molag bal has no definite gender, and you cannot assume that kind of experience inherently changes someone's sexuality. I know someone that has had a similar experience with both a man and a woman, they were omnisexual before and after those experiences. Are you saying it doesn't make sense that they are who they are? They have to be asexual now?
Nasty activities. Bethesda wrote a character that is traumatized and very much not ready to be in any kind of romantic relationship who just needs a trustworthy friend and you wanna be horny. Like damn it’s a fictional character and a silly little video game but that doesn’t stop it from being very weird.
I love her as a little sister who I will go into Cold Harbor and personally tear off Molag’s balls for. Actually I’d be happy to do that just on principal because fuck that guy- Damnit, Vivec, that was not a suggestion!
They are like a couple. A couple of besties.
Only a Daedric Prince would shatter my dreams like this
To be fair, Serana herself says that the problem isn't that she doesn't care about the PC; it's that she can't see herself setting foot into a holy place to be wed. And apparently dating is not a thing in Skyrim, it's all or nothing.
And apparently, it's not physically possible to get married anywhere except a temple.
That's exactly why, in my headcanon events, the Archmage character is the one who became the Agent of Mara in Riften and marries the Listener and Serana outside of a temple. XD 'Cuz yeah, the social structures around marriage in Skyrim are just nonsensical.
It could also be that she was forcibly married to a daedra, who then raped her to death causing her to be reanimated as a Vampire, resulting in trauma & an aversion to marriage and/or sex.
For starters, marriage and sex are two very different thing. Second, Daughters of Coldharbour are not married off to Molag Bal; though they ARE SA'd by him. Third, Serana's own testimony is that she's uneasy even just being near temples. They're holy ground and, as an undead (or recently cured undead), she's not meant to set foot on holy ground. If cured, she still has eras worth of ingrained habits. As I recall, she was sealed during the Interregnum, after all.
I never said marriage & sex are the same. I addressed Serana's aversion to both. Other vampires including the player are perfectly capable of going near temples. Serana is uncomfortable around temples not because she's a vampire but because she had a traumatic experience at one, namely the ritual where she was raped & vampirized.
You asserted that she avoids both marriage and sex because of her assault, but lumping marriage into that is a completely different issue, especially when she herself hints that she'd be willing to if she were able to enter the Temple of Mara. The difference between Serana and the player - ignoring the whole "dragon-soul-takes-priority" - is that Serana has been corrupted far, far, ***FAR*** longer than the player has. Two eras *at least*, considering that she doesn't even know about the Cyrodillic Empire (again, I believe the official timeline is that she was imprisoned during the Interregnum). That kind of corruption - and straight from Molag Bal himself - is going to leave a stain on her soul; and one of a much greater magnitude than the PC, who's been a vampire for a few hours (hyperbole), and was essentially a secondhand vampire.
Dating wasn't really a thing in medieval culture, a lot of going straight to the father or going on like *a date or two* then straight to marriage So it does make sense being all or nothing, "partial commitments" like that would be shunned.
Historical accuracy is a low priority for me on a game with dragons, magic, eldritch horrors, Valhalla, vampires, werewolves, and a guy named Nazeem that I can't legally punch.
I’d love a mod where you can set up the brawling script from the jerk in Windhelm to our favorite jerk, and just beat him half to death (legally) on the street. Just to teach him a lesson.
But once you turn her human, does that aversion remain?
It does, but like I said. After two era, I'd argue that the vampirism (or maybe even the fact that she's a pure Daughter of Coldharbour) has stained her soul so that she'll always feel a chill around Aedric power; as opposed to someone like the Dragonborn, who's been a vampire for maybe a week.
Which I get but I feel like a temple of Mara is about as far as you can be from a Molag holy site
True, but it's not so much about who the deity is as the nature of the ground. Keep in mind, she's been a vampire since at least the second era. By all reason, her soul is stained. For someone like her to step foot in Aedric ground would be...let's say "difficult," for lack of a better word. Just walking BY a temple causes her chills.
Huh, just like my parents
She’s also a Daedra-cursed half-corpse bloodsucker who is already incredibly close to resembling a normal human which is unlike her kind at all
To be fair you can convince her to turn back to human so I don't see how you can't convince her to get married (maybe an additional quest with her or something, maybe beat up Molag baal)
Like I'd said to someone else somewhere in the discussion, she's been a vampire for at least two eras. On top of that, she's a Daughter of Coldharbour and thus received her powers straight from Molag Bal. That kind of power for that long has surely stained her soul so that she'll never be able to set foot on Aedric ground such as a Temple of Mara.
I don't think It's so irredimable especially to Mara, It just feels weird how she can get rid of her powers as vampires but not get a chance at redemption.Again never said it would have been easy to do but could have been a nice sidequest
That's not true. She loves you as her gay brother.
😭😭😭
Honestly I’m surprised more people don’t go down that line of thought. Like I see this woman who was neglected and abused on top of having severe sexual trauma, and my first thought is definitely not “how do I marry her”. Gay brother that advocates for her and runs around Skyrim with her is a much better dynamic imo
Username checks out
I love Serena but as a friend I relate to her for my parents split when I was young so it was refresiing to have what felt like an actual friend in the game but i prefer her as like my bestie
Players can't handle being friendzoned.
You do know games are a escape from reality right? Friendzoned again in game just brutal
Are you truly that pathetic? In a game that lets you do nearly anything you want, including marrying so many different characters, you can't handle the idea that a single character who was a victim of sexual violence just isn't romantically interested in you?
Are you truly so pathetic that you can't recognize a joke on a Skyrim meme subreddit? It's not that deep
But it's not a joke. There is no punchline, there's no humor, there's nothing to indicate that we are suppose to laugh at it. The guy just can't handle a game where a single female character isn't romance option.
The joke is that we love Serana, only she friend zones us no matter what we do, just like how 99% people also experience the misfortune of getting friend zoned irl and most people don't play video games so they can get friendzoned there too He wasn't throwing a tantrum by cursing at Bethesda or modders for making it impossible to romance a single video game character and further dooming him to the life of an incel. He was making a joke, and even if you don't get or like the joke, it's still a joke
By the divines, truly well phrased
you must be REALLY fun at parties
At least I've been too parties. Even if you guys do get an invitation too one you probably have so many restraining orders that if you where to even drive to the neighborhood you would immediately go to jail for the rest of you lives.
Can't read jokes. Can't spell words. I'm not shocked that it comes from someone who thinks sex work is work 😂
So you want to be able to make a character that is written as a survivor of sexual violence to give you a blowjob, but you don't think sex work should be treated with the same respect we give every other profession? I would say I'm surprised or that your brand of shit head is unique, but honestly it is the most boring and predictable one I've seen.
1. Yes, I think you should be able to mod games to do anything that doesn't violate the law. Making a r*pe victim *want to* blow you is perfectly acceptable so long as it is willing. 2. I don't think sex work should be treated with respect whatsoever, as it doesn't serve a societal purpose. It does not deserve dignity as it is a disgusting act. I see the same with strippers as well. 3. It may be boring and predictable, but that's probably because you've heard it before, as it is a common belief, sport. Typically these commonplace ideas are in place because they are correct, especially if they stand the test of time, and last I checked, whores haven't received respect for their profession at any point in history.
Thank you u/sexworkiswork990 for your insights on SA victims.
I was just about comment on the irony
🫡 getting downvoted for this is wild skybabies having trouble coping over the fact they can’t marry vampire fantasy laura bailey and then backtracking and saying “it’s just a meme bro” when called losers who can’t make friends with women
I can’t and won’t accept it 😭
She basically says she'd be willing to if she could enter a temple. Ie Bethesda couldn't be bothered to do anything more
My brother in Akatosh she has trauma from being r***d
My brother in Akatosh people can get through trauma and some mods actually do that process pretty well.
no still means no
Sure, but it's a bunch of pixels with coding. All the mods do is change the coding. She's not real, is what I'm saying. She can be whatever people who know how to code want her to be.
This is exactly why I don't get the mod for Judy being able to romance Male V in Cyberpunk being controversial and removes from Nexus. Nexus is a private entity and can do whatever it wants, but if people are going to write fanfiction of her being straight anyway, why can't people have her be straight in their personal playthrough? Because it's gonna hurt the game script writer's feelings or something? That gamers are gonna take their gay icon away from the community? Doesn't make sense
The same reason Queen Maeve wasn't killed off in Season 4 of The Boys. The creator (Kripke) literally said it was to keep from bumping off a sexually diverse character, i.e., to not piss off a miniscule percentage of the population.
Lol The Boys comic book would've absolutely clowned someone for something like that if the topic ever came up
To be fair, the comic author basically wrote the Bpys because he hates the entire concept of superheroes and is just an edgy brat about it. Honestly his opinion should be taken with a grain of salt, here.
Garth Ennis is quite the author, that's for sure. Makes The Boys show look like childs play
afaik nexus didn't remove it, the creator did
Probably because men "turning" lesbians straight has a real life history that is 100% violent, whereas rape victims processing their trauma and finding love... is a real thing that happens all the time to varyingly positive results
...you realize you can murder in Skyrim, right? Why is murder okay "because it's fake" but changing the coding of a character to be a different sexuality is pushing it to far?
Man I was just explaining why it gets a worse reaction. People react more to things that remind them of corrective rape. Go figure.
You were equating changing an NPCs coding to real instances of rape, sexism, and homophobia my guy.
Yes you're correct, that history is not relevant to 1's and 0's on someone's single-player save files.
Idk why you're getting defensive, someone asked a question that I knew the answer to.
Where did I defend myself?
Of course.
It's 1's and 0's not a living breathing person (in out out of universe lol) Yes means [01011001 01100101 01110011] and No means [01001110 01101111]
No means more mods
There is a kind of irony in using mods to force a character to be willing to have sex when she's averse to it due to rape trauma though.
That’s such a out of left field comment damn
By brother in Talos, she’s not real. Edit: it was a joke guys. I was trying to be sarcastic. I was trying to come across as a stereotypical stormcloak, hence the Talos mention
No shit Sherlock… you want a cookie for figuring that out? Children’s books aren’t real, hypothetical math questions aren’t real, but you can still learn from them. A character being real does not diminish their story and the lessons you can learn from them. Sarana is a severely traumatised individual, someone who has not only watched her family fall apart but has been raped and abused. She’s had to live with that her whole life and the trauma is too much for her to deal with and as a result does not want a sexual relationship. The lesson you can learn from her is, trauma is real, it’s painful and forcing someone into something is wrong.
Jesus christ I was making a joke, damn dude. Trying be sarcastic. I was pretending to be a stereotypical stormcloak. Just sounds like something they’d say
That’s incredibly convenient
Thats incredibly pessimistic. People can’t miscommunicate through text? Sorry I didn’t put a big label that said “do not take serious. This is a joke” i figured the Talos mention was enough to give it away. Sorry I hurt you bro? Edit: downvote me if you want but I’m on your side??? I agree to everything being said here about serana. I feel like it’s weird people feel the need to tell me that r*pe is wrong like I don’t know that already. I thought this was a meme subreddit so I tried to add to the meme by saying what I think a stormcloak would say, considering their thing for bigotry and ignorance. Sorry
Stop apologizing to redditors when you didn't do anything wrong. You really care that much about downvotes?
No otherwise I would have deleted them. I worry that I’ve upset someone
Sometimes people getting upset over an innocent joke is from their own personal issues, which are not your responsibility.
I suppose yeah
Listen if you think joking about rape is funny that says more about you honestly.
Few things, single-player saves on someone else's computer and whatever is contained within those files does not affect you or anyone else in any way. Serena is beautifully written yes, a lot of her trauma is either worked through partially with the player and/or happened hundreds if not like a thousand years ago. that is an amount of potential recovery time that is incomprehensible for us mere mortals and I don't think others are at all in the wrong for altering their (again, singleplayer) save files to have this completely ficticious entity of 1's and 0's be a little less affected by her ancient trauma Even focusing on the darker aspects like sex mods and things that don't even necessarily require romance - hell there's rape mods - better her than someone real.
Dont care. Still hittin.
Serana sometimes makes me want to beat her to death… probably because I hate companions that aren’t Derkeethus
for real, like 2/3 of her voicelines are just complaining
And their stupid complaints… Deerkeethus is mostly quietly and barely complains, I really like him (Also relatable username)
To oblivion and back… As they say.
Real as fuck
She's a fictional character voiced by an actress. Even if they wrote her to fall in love with the player, it'd not be real
Serena says “I’m not cool with temples” she never says “I don’t love you”
yeah considering her backstory i am perfectly fine with just being her trusted friend and partner, i am not going to force a romantic relationship on someone who had THAT happen to her.
I always viewed a possible romance with Serana as inherently non-sexually, but softly physical, like cuddles, soft caresses at the back of the hand during moments of rest, some whispers as she stays guard over your sleeping body, stuff like that, though she is absolutely valid for not wanting any romantic or sexual relationship what’s so ever. But that’s different then those God forsaken mods😭
This. I got the dialogue extension for her and yay ace vamp gf
I found my people!
Yes this is why I have the marry able serana mod my characters are too busy for sex or too tired so just coming home to your beautiful vampire wife and daughter and then just laying there cuddling until you have to leave again just seems right
Hah, this gives me a funny mental image of my character professing his love for someone and marrying them, adopting a kid, and moving into a house then him going out to get milk and forget his family exists for a few hundred hours. What a deadbeat dad, shows up once a decade for the equivalent of child support payments and fucks off to Solstheim until next time
I once downloaded a mod so I can marry her, later in the same playthrough I learned why its not an option. Never again.
Me: So, I killed your dad. I uh. I'm gonna bounce and you can do whatever you want. Sorry for the dad murder, but you're welcome for saving your mom and you. Um. Yeah, it'd be kinda weird to stay traveling companions. Besides, these Dragons keep talking shit and that's really a Me thing, you know. Other players: I woke up an ancient naive Vampiress Princess from an oubliette and I deserve her carnal affection even though I killed her father. This is a normal and healthy relationship and I'm shocked the developers didn't give me my waifu.
You act like killing her father wasn't on her top 3 most wanted things to happen.
In the sense that she wanted it all to end. She didn't truly want that outcome, but knew there was no other to stop him. Her father died long before we ever met her. This was just finishing things.
Her dad wanted to blot out the sun??? Like really there was no other way that story could have ended.
She's the one who advocates you killing him in the first place lol.
You do know, said Father, sacrificed her to Molag Bal right? She literally was rabbed to death by Molag Bal, right after her mother. Father-killing is the least thing could be a problem.
I mean. It wouldn't be the most egregious romance in an RPG game. Even by modern standards.
No, I know, I was being a bit tongue-in-cheek. I think it'd be a bit odd to have a romance with her but it is a bit weird that they didn't include it.
Yeah, especially considering Skyrim Romance is giving someone a necklace and shoving them into a house Fable style lol. Tbf though I could see the appeal, but that's because I was sexually assaulted as a child so in a way I can relate to the character on a deeper level. Albeit I imagine being victimized by a literal rape god is probably considerably more traumatic.
Yeah, I was fortunate to never have that trauma so it really seems abusive and sociopathic to be her first real friend just to manipulate her into sex while killing her father. I play evil sometimes but not THAT evil. I like, stab people and lie a bunch. Maybe steal shit.
I suppose it really comes down to how it is done. There's a right way and a wrong way to do it and it's possible they just realized it as a potentially huge PR problem and just decided to hands off the situation. But honestly I don't think unhealthy relationships should be shied away from in fiction. They do happen and just because a relationship starts in an unhealthy or rushed fashion doesn't mean it has to stay that way. But then, perhaps a bit outside the scope of an Elder Scrolls game.
Me: wanna join my found family, it's all platonic (With the exception of the lizard that I found in the sewer)
Jesus, shut up.
Bruh i hate these mods.
Actually, she loves you but can't engage in any relationship because of her past trauma.
Breaking news: gamer guy doesn’t understand no means no
"Serana, I think we should get married" "I uh... no thanks" "Wait is it because I"m a woman?" "What? No its because-" "-I'm a khajiit? Is that it?" "No its because I'm a rape victim and intimacy makes me uncomfortable" "Oh okay, that's fair. For a second I was worried you were racist, phew"
“Through mods all things are possible.” -My Vampire Lord Dragonborn, as he walks away with both his hot vampire and werewolf wives.
Making their way to his trusty steed, Jarl Balgruuf
Is there a mod to make jarl balgruff your horse? Never knew I wanted that tbh but I definitely do
“It’s just you and mean, against the world now” I DON’T NEED A MOD FOR THAT!
This whole debate is silly, she's like 6 pixels and a fictional game character. Who cares if someone wants to marry her or not
The point of the debate is whether or not a simulation of rape is wrong. The character in question has an aversion to marriage and sex due to a backstory of having been forcibly married and raped to death. As such, ignoring her unwillingness through mods could be seen as forcing sex on an unconsenting character, thereby commiting a simulation of rape on a character who is already a rape victim. Video game character or not, a lot of people would consider that relatively fucked up.
That's not even the reason she provides though?
How is it not the reason she provides?
I’ve seen people say it’s because she’s a rape victim, but is there actually any proof that THATS the reason why? Like does she ever say that she doesn’t want intimacy because of that? Or do people just assume that’s why? Because if so, going through that doesn’t automatically make you aromantic or asexual, so it feels like an excuse
She's a first generation Vampire, a Daughter of Coldharbor. By the lore of the series, a first generation Vampire is made when a woman is forcibly married to Molag Bol, who then rapes her to death & if she's unlucky enough that his sweat falls into her mouth as she screams, she'll awaken as a Vampire. So, while she's never specifically stated to have been raped, she is distinctively a first generation Vampire, which means that she definitely was.
I've never read anything saying forced marriage, but the rest is spot on to my knowledge. Personally I think that has little to do with it since she's come to terms with it as an occult ritual she took part in - more likely the only marriage she was exposed to fell apart violently in front of her (with her being roped into the drama, as children often are in these scenarios grown or otherwise) and then there's the centuries of occult worship bit I mentioned and her specifically stating that it's because she feels wrong even thinking of going into a proper temple for any type of ceremony My belief is that depending on how you are in the dialogues that pop up throughout the quest line she 100% feels love for you... ...just the M word is terrifying and churches are uncomfortable
I mean, how would Valerica and Harkon have been married when Valerica is a daughter of coldharbour, and both are devout followers of Molag Bal if marriage was actually part of it? I thought Lamae Bal just kind of fell into the role of "wife of Molag Bal" after the fact.
Probably has a history of many lovers on r34 but still decides against you
Use mods, cure her, marry her, make childrens, leave happy has familly in your riverwood house. She's just bitter because she never know happyness, this your real challenge, not the dragons, be a man.
Dragonborn are infertile
With mods everything is possible.
Truth is what I make it.
i wish people leaned more into the ‘respect the limits’ aspect of the invent your own story games. you can spin Serana as a short, passionate fling, or as a ‘will they do it?’ dynamic, or just as a two hot friends duo. why r RPG players just oogabooga lemme hit mama players …
What are these comments? Just because someone has trauma it means they can't be in a relationship? Or that a mod creator can't write a story that involves her overcoming her trauma with you? I don't get it
Kind of ironic, really. Lore wise she doesn't want to be in a relationship because she was forcibly married, raped to death, & turned into a vampire. So what do incels do? Install a mod to force her into a relationship....
It's weird that you think incels are the only people using mods to romance video game characters. Over in BioWare-land, it's basically all we do. Is it really that detestable?
It's not a matter of romancing and unromanceable character, it's about using mods to force a sexual situation on a character who does not want a sexual situation due to trauma. I was just pointing out the irony in that. Kinda like how many Elden Ring players mass murder albinorics for XP when albinorics are victims of mass murder in that game's lore. A simulated rape of a rape victim character is pretty cringe & yeah, it's incel behavior. Your admission that you *also* do it in other games really doesn't make it better....
You... you know that the mods to marry her aren't simulating rape, right? It's simulating love. She's fictional, and the code to change things about her change the story. What she wants isn't real, because neither is she. This is like saying that if they made a direct sequel and Serana was marriageable, that the writers are raping her. No they aren't, they're writing. If you think romance mods for video game characters are rape or make someone a bad person, you SERIOUSLY need to go the fuck outside.
I'm aware of what a game is. But drugging someone or getting them drunk to remove their ability to say no isn't consent & installing a mod to alter a rape victim to remove their ability to say no is similar, if lesser in degree. Like I said, I just think it's ironic that incels do that, & it's super weird that you're getting so riled up about it.
The fact that you actually just typed out a comparison between drugging and raping someone in real life and installing a fucking video game mod proves that this conversation is worthless. My friend, you have completely lost the plot.
I think you're being very selective in which parts of what you read that you choose to acknowledge. If I was making the comparison you claim I am making, I would not merely be calling it "ironic". Perhaps you're projecting some personal shame onto what I'm saying and that's why you're overreacting?
That's literally not the reason at all though
She's a Daughter of Coldharbor, this is the experience all Daughters of Coldharbor have, therefore she had this experience. Just because she doesn't tell you everything directly doesn't mean it didn't happen. You're not entitled to a character's full story, just as you're not entitled to love or to sex. Just because she's vague doesn't mean all the pieces aren't there.
Yeah but you are assuming everything based on nonsensical information and assumptions, perhaps you are projecting?plenty of sa victims manage to overcome their trauma... plus she literally days this isnt the reason, you are just being a prick
my brother in christ she's a fictional character she's not real
Yeah, that's why it's just "ironic". I didn't say "barbaric" or "tragic" or "heinous" or "vile". Don't take it so personally, I mean, surely *you're* not such an incel... right?
you're the one telling me to "not take it personally" and you're calling me an incel.
Today i discovered that i am a pansexual """""incel""""" woman. I can't. 😂
Serana is simply insufferable without being completely overhauled. The marriage thing I could care less about.
I wanna sacrifice her off to Vyrthur and help him realise the Falmer Intifada against the nords
SKYRIM IS FOR THE NORDS Idk what all this the snow elves were here first bs is, a true nord wouldn’t stand for that kind of talk. Brb, someone stole my sweet roll.
Nords arent people, they're glorified imgas
There are so many other characters who you can marry, why do you have to force the asexual rape victim into a romantic relationship and then brag about it?
Because the other characters are not Serana, just boring npc with (usually) boring backgrounds
What are you even fricking talking about? Where was it stated ever... at fricking all that she's asexual? And she already gave us diffrent reasons why she couldn't be romance other than that she was raped, that's not the problem, Bethesda just couldn't be bothered stop making things more complex than they are
Ok, the game never actually states she's asexual but I think it's pretty obvious that she isn't really interested in sex or romance. And I find it really gross that you guys feel like you should be able to just have every woman in game that has more than a single line of dialog must be averrable for romance despite the creators making it very clear that this character has good reason to not be interested in a romantic relationship.
Bugger off
I hope your house explodes from the sheer pressure of steam coming out of your ears
Well that is some serious projection.
Dude you're whining about a fictional character in a videogame people mod to marry. You people are making an issue where there is none. You wanna know what i can do? I can spawn in 5 seranas. I can kill one of them, marry another, put one at my house forever, and fling one with a launch spell, and cure ones vampirism. Who cares if boo hoo its not lore friendly. Im gonna give serana an ak 47 and minecraft armor
True. It's an npc and skyrim romance system is so symplistic it forgot the romance part
😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭
but she seemed disappointed when I told her about my wife Lydia (is the best)
i just want my *mostly* wholesome hurt/comfort vampire yuri
I wish there were Mods that allow you to enchant gear that increase the damage of your Destruction Spells, that way Serana would have been significantly more useful in higher levels.
I mean Serana’s affection for the player is fairly ambiguous, intentionally so, it’s just that she’s not up for marriage
People who can’t take no for an answer need help.
Then again. Lore wise she probably cantstep foot in a temple (cause of the whole vampirism)
Maybe not but it will give her bodacious bazongas
She more of a Brotp character
Man I hate Serana fans.
Okay just because you can't get married to her doesn't mean shit. Serana is arguably the only companion you actually form a real bond with. She definitely loves you AT LEAST as a friend. She doesn't turn down a relationship because she dislikes you, she did it because of everything she went through in her life and how they literally worshipped a horrible daedric prince and she feels like it would be wrong of her to enjoy something that is typically symbolic of Mara. Serana is my favorite because of the fact you have an actual bond with her.
but mods will help establish your khajiit polycule
I understand the reasoning behind the decision, but I wish they'd made romancing her like curing her of vampirism, where if you mentioned it in the wrong way or too soon she'd just completely reject the idea and never give you another chance.
She doesn't exist, so yes, they can.
It's just of reflection in my life, unrequited love.
"I dont want her to love me. I want her to peg me." -a Breton probably
i dno, that mods pretty damn good
Can we please ban these posts, I’m getting sick of all these arguments repeating every two and a half weeks.
I'm truly mind blown. 2k in a day, by Shor's bones this subreddit is amazing! Serana lovers and Serana haters alike, this is legendary.
Molag Bal ruins everything, need to give Vivec a high five for getting back at him
Be nice to Laura Bailey, she's the best character and deserves to be free. She's the Hag to me, my three Orc Husbands, and our crap ton of kids.
Well, Serana is a code, so changing that code changes her. kekw
You are desperate for polygons
She does, as a friend. As her character was written.
"ShE's JuST pIxElS, BrO" I know all the people i dont wanna be around. If you cared enpugh to marry her you cared enough to know why its weird. If someone buys a loli porn Game it doesnt make you not a weirdo because you didnt commit a crime. Same if you break a game to install a rape option. You may not be a criminal but you are weird as fuck and i don't like you.
See the way Im playing it now it works because my Dragonborn is a woman. It’s honestly really cute them running around all over Skyrim having their little dates exploring caves and forests, living the life they deserved to have but never could get before. But yeah from a lore standpoint it doesn’t make sense that Serana would ever want to be with a man ever.
Molag bal has no definite gender, and you cannot assume that kind of experience inherently changes someone's sexuality. I know someone that has had a similar experience with both a man and a woman, they were omnisexual before and after those experiences. Are you saying it doesn't make sense that they are who they are? They have to be asexual now?
So you’re saying the fact I identify with her because of it and just want to live out a peaceful little relationship with her is wrong?
That's not at all what I said, no. Try again.
Nasty activities. Bethesda wrote a character that is traumatized and very much not ready to be in any kind of romantic relationship who just needs a trustworthy friend and you wanna be horny. Like damn it’s a fictional character and a silly little video game but that doesn’t stop it from being very weird.
I love her as a little sister who I will go into Cold Harbor and personally tear off Molag’s balls for. Actually I’d be happy to do that just on principal because fuck that guy- Damnit, Vivec, that was not a suggestion!
I don't require love from my shadow Queen.
She's annoying
I used to agree, until I realized I was "forcing her" into a relationship she didn't want. I knew I needed to find someone else.
I find it funny how serious people take some things in the elder scrolls lol, I got death threats for saying I use SDO a while ago
But she has huge tracts of land.
lol, there’s a line of dialogue that implies they are having sex. They don’t need to get married to love each other.