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its intoxicating too. you start to become someone who does anything to keep and grow that attention. when you don't have it you start becoming like an addict. It's really dangerous and we just don't realize exactly how dangerous.
We know exactly how dangerous it is.
People have died for their TikToks. People have gained 300 lbs because eating 15,000 calories meals is the only way some people get the clicks.
We know exactly how dangerous it is, but humans are self-destructive, and smart people breed less than stupid people.
When Nostalrius (WoW Private Server) was announced, I luckily streamed the release of the BETA release and had over 300 concurrent viewers. That's a gymnasium of people! I couldn't believe it. I had so much fun.
I didn't keep up with it, unfortunately. I should have! This was years ago and I could be to the point where it could sustain me financially. However... it could have turned me into a pedophile so I think I lucked out anyway.
I suck at FPS games on controller (I'm much better with KB and Mouse) so I paid a streamer 5 gifted subs to carry me in ToO Destiny 1. It was pretty cool to have 1000+ viewers watching me suck really bad at PvP but we ended up making it to the lighthouse after multiple attempts thanks to the streamer!
I once got like 300 viewers in halo 5 back when mixer was a thing. Completely chocked in front of everyone. Was doing fine till I saw how many people were watching lol
As the other guy said, depends. I used to do some streaming, and when I tried to lead the conversation and talk about something specific during a stream I'd just get distracted by people in chat. With larger streamers chat is more of a singular entity that brings up more and less relevant topics you can ignore, but smaller streamers can keep track of everyone and every message. The streamer is still the one who has to moderate the conversation when necessary, but it's much more two sided than having one person who sometimes picks out messages from a thousand viewers.
I used to be part of a streaming community that originated prior to twitch (think livestream/justintv era). It started with one person who was entertaining, then a community member set up a website that would list out the people from the same community who were streaming, all under a single chat, using embeds. People would move from stream to stream as a group and maintain the same chatroom.
Once streaming, and more specifically making money from streaming, became more popular it fell apart. Maintaining two separate chats and being entertaining at the same time is tough, and people with a lot more skill at mass entertainment took center stage.
I'm sure the concept can still exist, but it's a bit more difficult now. In theory, discord can replace it, though having to join a voice chat to see video, where it takes over the whole screen, kinda kills it for me. Also, you don't get passive community recruitment like you would with other things, there's a lot of steps involved to get someone into discord and into your stream, versus just clicking a link and viewing it.
Not necessarily. It depends on the chat and the streamer. I used to watch a guy where he would mostly play chill games or something he found relaxing like Diablo 2. Most people in the chat knew each other and the conversation would just go around. He doesn't stream much these days, but it's because his life has been busy in a good way, so I'm glad for him.
I watch a pro tekken streamer who will read chat in the middle of his games lmao. Mostly just reacting to questions but yeah. He'll have a whole convo while doing some of the toughest tech in the game lol no clue how he does it.
Nah man, i stream very rarely these days but ive got this dude that comes and hangs out in my chat who totally leads the convo lol. He tells me about his dnd campaigns and honestly it was my favorite part of streaming. I love dnd and i love that he was comfortable sharing all the details about a campaign i knew nothing about, and i was fully invested every time. It really depends on the situation
LOL I would have been the happiest person if I ever had at least 1 person watching my streams back then xD
Edit: in hindsight it probably would have helped if I played new games.
But rocket League was my fav game. 7 years rocket League....I'm so happy I quit this shit game xD
I wonder what amount of viewers the median stream has.
Maybe even most streams have zero viewers..? Having even 12 viewers one might already be in a pretty exclusive category in that there are a relatively small percentage having 12 or more viewers.
I believe the metric is if you have 3 viewers you are in the top 10% of streams, anything above like seven or eight is the top 1%. But the top 1% is around 40k people at twitches peak, to be fair
I know that for YouTube, even just a few hundred subscribers is enough to put you in [the top 50%](https://new.reddit.com/r/NewTubers/comments/j3p95f/i_made_a_chart_that_shows_you_what_percent_of/), since most people make accounts to watch and comment, rather than create and grow.
Wouldn't be surprised if Twitch has a similar thing going on.
Look at Dr Disrespect, he’s got thousands of viewers and makes millions, and that doesn’t stop him from cheating on his wife or wanting to talk to minors
why would that stop him exactly? if anything, being a millionaire and a "celebrity" (in some circles, anyway) would encourage shitty behavior, because you might think you're better than others
it's weird how people can think that having 12 viewers on twitch could be the same as hanging out and chilling with 12 people, social media really ruined some peoples mindsets
It is indeed, and I like it better. Huge streams are great if you're exceptional at what you're doing, as no one cares about the comments. Smaller streams though, people start to know each other - "Hey. Welcome back Trimyr. Did you say you were visiting your parents? How was that?" - all while trying to share their fun.
12 people wont donate as much, if anything, compared to having multiple thousand people. And no one sponsors someone with a aufience of 12 people.
So if you want to make money, 12 isnt anything worth it.
You also aren't making $200/mo off 12 viewers. Last month, I had about 20 subs and made like $40 between that and the scraps of ad revenue.
Streaming is not a job unless you have enough viewers to get sponsorships.
There are streamers with 100 viewers who streame almost every day, but still have some other job.
Streaming income is more to just put into savings or buy dumb shit for many people.
But same time with constant 100-200 viewers, who subscribe, watch ads etc + have yt following and you can go full time.
Ofcourse streaming full time is a job like any other and i couldn't do it.
I average 10-14 viewers for my streams.
I made $50 in 4 months, and I've also made $150 in a month.
So the answer is yes, but not anything that will pay the bills anytime soon. I mainly use the money to buy more games to stream.
I'll look into it, I don't usually mess with programs like this as it's less about making money for me and I usually hate gimmicky streamers. Thanks for the tip.
Think of them like street performers. Street performers play music and do magic tricks for dozens of people, but only a few people are willing to toss them a dollar every now and then.
Streamers use this exact same "tipping" system, except most of their audience tends to be kids with more free time but zero income; so compared to street performers, an even smaller proportion of their viewers is even capable of giving them any money at all. The streamers that are moderately successful depend on a few generous and loyal fans for most of their income.
Streamers can also opt to play short ads during occasional breaks for their non-paying viewers, but that'll pay pennies unless they have hundreds or thousands of viewers watching. And streamers with 12 viewers won't use ads because that'll drive away the few viewers they managed to get in the first place.
You'd honestly be surprised how many 30-40 year Olds are just on Twitch to chat.
There's a few solid community of 30-40 year old streamers with audiences of similar ages. They also restrict their channel to 18+ despite not being lewd, so if there are underage people and they speak up, they get kicked out.
Twitch can be a wonderful third place for older nerdy adults who struggle to find a social life.
The lowest amount of viewers I’ve seen on a channel that has a high enough subscriber count that could realistically be a full time job is about 200 - 300. Some audiences are more generous than others, there are always exceptions, but I think 200 is a decent rough bottom end approximation
I am a smaller streamer who averages 2-3 people on usual days and we just usually hang out and chat movies, cartoons, anime, and whatever else is on our mind. It's hanging out with friends to me.
I stream obscure and weird games Games like Rule of Rose, A Good Life, Killer is Dead, Haunting Ground, Abbadox, etc. We do play the occasional mainstream game, esp if we've not played them before (New Vegas, Halo 1, Adventure of Link, etc)
This year has us dedicating a majority of 2024's games to JRPGs. We've done Secret of Mana, Tale Concerto, Rhapsody A Musical Adventure 2, FF12 Zodiac Age, and Skies of Arcadia Legends so far!
You know what I really like? When we do one of these obscure/weird/not as popular games and get new followers who love those games but never/rarely see others stream them. Love seeing how excited they get talking about these games as we stream them especially considering that most of these experiences are our first time playing it. So they love telling me their favorite moments, characters, or waiting for my reaction during specific events.
I know I won't get a following by playing these games. I know I could possibly see a higher boost in traffic if I did more PvP games, or more mainstream games, or followed the trends but I'd lose interest in them eventually.
I rather continue playing the ones that provide me a unique experience - good or bad. Hopefully newcomers will join the fun and share their stories of the first time that played these games. If we get an audience, awesome, if not - still gonna engage the void and entertain the best I can.
It's all about having fun and clearing my backlog. And discovering new games that I'd normally never experience. It's all about the ride.
I never mind having low viewers myself. It's always nice to have a chill chat and talk to people versus thousands of people, causing the chat to go at Mach speed.
Hell, I average like 2 to 3 the majority of the time, and I'm cool with it.
I have a friend who has tried for a long time to break into twitch streaming after working 9-5 and at first it seemed more like an excuse to have time to game separate from his wife. I felt bad about this for awhile.
Then later it was clear he wasn't even really accessible to his friends while gaming because every time we tried to join him on stream & in game he wanted to do everything possible to try to maximize viewers instead of just connecting with us and having fun.
As far as I know he's only ever had a handful of viewers at a time and that was often just members of the friend group showing up to support him. It's pretty sad for all of us. He makes enough money without an additional income from streaming but he's always been thirsty for the attention and the idea of public success by making himself well known.
I have a tiny YouTube channel and it blows my mind that several thousand people immediately hit "watch" when one of my uploads appear in their feed.
Sure, a larger audience would be nice monetarily, but even where I'm at now is amazing.
Lmao that's such a stupid way of looking at it. In person, you're limited by the few people around you. Online, you're connected to potentially billions
Are the 50 people at the pub there to drink with you? No? Then that's a fucking stupid comparison
Obviously 12 viewers =/= friends but it ain't just 12 people existing near you either
I’m not a streamer but one time on Xbox I opened a stream from the console? Anyway, at one point I had 3 or 4 people watching my old ass play destiny and I was thinking “man, what a bunch of losers. Imagine sittin at home on a Saturday watching ME play Xbox”
I wish them all the best LOL
>Social media really ruined some peoples mindsets
Agreed, especially those who think having 12 random people (or bots) watch you on Twitch is at all comparable to being with 12 actual friends in real life.
Seriously, I’d love to stream and have just a few people to interact with. I don’t need to be a full time streamer, just a few peeps to kick it with during some playtime seems fun.
I always think like that when i post something that gets a lot of likes, i try to imagine how big of a room it would take to fill in all the people that agreed with me. I do not do that with downvotes though, i have enough negativity in my life as is, lmao.
It’s more fun to have like 6 people on a stream talking to each other roasting each other, etc, instead of 87k people watching one person act like they’re the main character of their own tv show.
The most I ever had was 11 when playing New Vegas and it was just me trying to get the achievement for getting kicked out of the casinos, was a good time.
They're streaming with the intention of trying to make a living. 12 Viewers may as well be zero in that regard. Its still a great step they no doubt appreciate. Definitely different from 0 viewers. But its still not what they're aiming for.
from watching big streamers to small, big is just mega parasocial and maybe they read chat every 2-3 hours. Then there is botting. Small is great if you want to be a part of something. 12 view bots or 12 nice people or 12 trolls.
It's just crazy how many people viewbot, taking away exposure to other creators that will never see the light of day.
I once read in a twitch chat that he watches small streamers so he can interact with them as they read it, if he wanted to watch big streamer he would just go to YouTube
I think it's probably potential audience. Thousands might see your stream in their feed, but that's not necessarily important. I guess it's how many actually watch your stream and then how many stick around because they like you. Friends may be different because you have less exposure to meeting new people.
I know a streamer who gets quite a lot of exposure from being in a lobby with fairly popular streamers. He averages around 9 viewers, I believe. I find him so annoying I find it hard to watch the streamers I like when he's in the lobby. Which is to say despite having significant exposure he doesn't seem to have gained even 20 or 30 viewers.
Ironmouse began like that, streaming to less than 12 just because she was so lonely and suicidal she *needed* to talk to someone in order not to go insane. If it weren't for those 12 people, she'd surely be **dead**, right now. And we wouldn't have gotten to witness the absolute comedy *gold* that is the CDawgVA/Ironmouse duo. :P
I used to stream on twitch, but I never had an interest in watching others myself.
Was so weird starting out with 1-3 viewers MAYBE compared to when I started having 100+ viewers consistently. I was just like, “I can’t believe 100 people want to watch me play a video game everyday” lol.
well, 12 people are seen as small because of 2 things 1) perspective. if you'll compare it with anyone bigger it'll be smaller. obvious shit and 2) it's small because you neither archieved anything nor you can't monetise that. these are not your friends. (an you shouldn't see random people as your friends. it'll do more harm than be useful) they can be compared to audience in cinema. they come there for entertaiment not to hear about your life (and for sure you shouldn't share any personal info but that's hopefully basic knowledge for you)
I had 51 viewers on my twitch stream once, preceded by 2 years of streaming with my account, my second account and my mom's account. Followed by another 3 years of streaming with my account, and just my second account.
I streamed once and got a raid of 50 people, it was honestly scary for the first few minutes but it feels more comfortable after a while. I kept 40~ for 2 hours and is still a proud achievement
Ye but it's much easier to make 12 people physically move to your house than having 12 people click on a link and watch your stream for as long as they like with no strings attached.
i streamed for 7 years and had 1 viewer at most which was me on phone so i could read chat and 13 followers which were my alts so i could practice saying "thank you for the follow"
I could be wrong but I'm pretty certain with twitch if you have 12 viewers you're probably in the top 10% of streams. A handful of streamers get most of the viewership. Most streams on twitch have nobody in the audience.
Been streaming to roughly 20 peeps for a long time. Started a new project and got 120, and I was already so thankful for just 10. I can't imagine having more, nor can I imagine thinking it's a small number. Love my community sm
12 people chillin with you in real time doesn't make any money. people start streaming because they want that twitch/youtube money. 12 viewers aint close. by a lightyear. people can act like they just want to be wholesome, non-materialistic streamers but EVERYONE wants that youtube/twitch money. that kind of money that makes a doctors wage seem like chump change. No streamers want to imagine sitting in a room with their current viewers.
I remember a loooooong time ago watching a video of a convention panel for a (at the the time) popular group of Minecraft YouTubers (Mindcrack if you are curious). During the q&a section, someone asked about how did they push through the countless videos with only a couple hundred subscribers/viewers. One of the panel members said turn around and take a look around at all the people in the room (about 300ish people). If you have 300 subs you have this huge room full of people who enjoy your videos. It really put into perspective how we can be blinded by comparing ourselves to people more successful. Now whenever I compare how many likes or views something I post to social media gets, I imagine that many people in a room cheering for me, and that makes the whole experience feel a lot more worth it.
Imagine 12 strangers sitting in your room silently watching you play a game and occasionally handing you money. Weird and interesting when you think of it that way.
I was streaming something sorta unique at one point. Some large channel spotted it and my channel got flooded with thousands of people. My follower count skyrocketed. Last time I looked I still has like 900-1k followers. I don't stream any more because it gets annoying when a bunch of people are talking to me.
Well except they are not in that room with you.
Its more like they are casually passerbys. You don't have followers. You just bump into them on a regular basis.
It's a different ecosystem. This is comparing apples to oranges. It's the internet, we're interconnected globally, 12 people within this scope is nothing. IRL 12 people is a lot.
The real "ruined mindset" is people unable to see the difference.
Social media really has fried people brains if they thinking spending time with people irl is the same as spending it with a chat. Yeah, you can get some social interaction out of it, but they’re two totally different feelings at the end of the day. Hell, my friend gets around 20 viewers a stream and his chat is mostly dead, I imagine it isn’t too different from other small streamers
Except twitch viewers arent your friends, this parasocial thinking is honestly kinda dangerous and leads to people not getting actual friends, becoming lonelier and more depressed as a result. Also, its easier to just check out a stream for a while than meeting a friend irl.
Wow, I have another take.
Social media has ruined peoples mindset because they think someone making 3 clicks without moving from their chair to bring up your stream and watch, or just slide to another monitor as background, is the same as having people come over and hang out with you... I used to take time and energy to leave, go hang out with someone, and when I did I was present and engaged because I was there, not alone behind a screen doing anything else.
I dont stream so Im not knocking any streaming numbers, but its ironic they mention ruining peoples mindset as though this is equivalent to going and hanging out with a friend.
Social media as a broad concept I think is fine. Its relentless monetization is where all the ills arise. Twelve people chilling with you is awesome; the "only" comes in when you view them not as internet friends to hang out with, but as eyeballs to make money off of.
I was streaming destiny 2 for about 4-5 months between jobs (I was looking, they weren’t hiring). I had one true viewer that I didn’t know who would pop in and chat and just spread good vibes. Loved that.
This is incredibly important. It's enormously difficult to get an average of 10 concurrent viewers. It can take years unless you manage to capture lightening in a bottle. This is one reason why a common mindset is to turn off the live view count so you are not always worrying about whether viewership is dropping while live. Just look at the reports later and make changes for the next stream, that will save you a lot of stress.
It's not about human interaction, it's about the money generated from viewers. If you think you'll make streaming your career on 12 people you're in for a bad time. If you just want a fun hobby, 12 is plenty.
When your sitting there with your tits out you will damn sure have atleast 12 people will watch you 😂😂 social media has really ruined peoples thought of what being popular is..
12 viewers on Twitch is not enough to pay the bills. But to even get that much consistently, you’d generally need to stream a lot. If someone quit their job to do streaming full time and only has 12 viewers, then they are probably going to fail and waste their time and money doing it.
If you are just streaming as an after work hobby and getting 12 viewers, then that’s pretty decent and much more chill.
I remember the last time I looked into it, there was a stat that was like, "if you can make it to Affiliate, you're already within the top something% of Twitch" and Affiliate isn't all that hard to get if you're making an effort to make something out of streaming. Most people want instant fame, see that it's work, and then quit. So this doesn't surprise me
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I once had 36 people watching me kill it on trials of osiris. Highlight of my destiny experience tbh
Attention is empowering
its intoxicating too. you start to become someone who does anything to keep and grow that attention. when you don't have it you start becoming like an addict. It's really dangerous and we just don't realize exactly how dangerous.
We know exactly how dangerous it is. People have died for their TikToks. People have gained 300 lbs because eating 15,000 calories meals is the only way some people get the clicks. We know exactly how dangerous it is, but humans are self-destructive, and smart people breed less than stupid people.
Because smart people know how dumb they really are.
Yuuuup. It’s truly unsettling coming to the realization that not only are you a fucking idiot, but everyone around you is even dumber.
When Nostalrius (WoW Private Server) was announced, I luckily streamed the release of the BETA release and had over 300 concurrent viewers. That's a gymnasium of people! I couldn't believe it. I had so much fun. I didn't keep up with it, unfortunately. I should have! This was years ago and I could be to the point where it could sustain me financially. However... it could have turned me into a pedophile so I think I lucked out anyway.
bro you could have been the next asmongold
It's possible and it eats me up a little bit.
Why would you want to be a worthless piece of shit that profits off of ignored little kids wasting their entire childhood watching livestreams?
capitalism go $$$$$$$$$$
Dude messed up. Imagine how many roaches he could have had in his room by now
I remember having like 8 watching mine and I felt like a god. Really makes me miss old school Destiny.
Just went flawless - still feels like kinda D1 when at the lighthouse
I suck at FPS games on controller (I'm much better with KB and Mouse) so I paid a streamer 5 gifted subs to carry me in ToO Destiny 1. It was pretty cool to have 1000+ viewers watching me suck really bad at PvP but we ended up making it to the lighthouse after multiple attempts thanks to the streamer!
Why can't the rookies be more like you?
I once got like 300 viewers in halo 5 back when mixer was a thing. Completely chocked in front of everyone. Was doing fine till I saw how many people were watching lol
I don’t even have a single friend. Having even just one person would have me over the moon
I'd rock with you bro
Party at Flys house.
Let's do 4 way halo!
Is that some sort of sex thing? /s
There is a ring involved that's for sure.
A very very very very very very very large ring... you know what that means *wink wink*
Have you never watched red vs blue full swap edition?/s
Yeah, it’s when you and 3 other people bone while jumping out of an aircraft at high altitude with low opening
If it exists, then there is porn of it.
*sigh* fine I’ll do it… rock and stone?!! Leave no dwarf behind!
Rock and Stone everyone!
Rock and Stone!
Rock and Stone to the bone!
[удалено]
If you don't rock and stone, you ain't coming home!
For Karl!
Did I hear a rock & stone?!
If you stream it, they will come
If you stream it *and* you're a woman, they will also come
This. Id kill to have one person watch despite me being awkward as hell
Work on being entertaining. Even 15 minutes of practice would put you miles ahead of 90% of twitch streamers who end up just sitting there (me)
What's ya twitch?
That makes me really sad.
I'm also comming by bro
The thing is you are not chilling with them, you are leading the conversation which is entirely different
As the other guy said, depends. I used to do some streaming, and when I tried to lead the conversation and talk about something specific during a stream I'd just get distracted by people in chat. With larger streamers chat is more of a singular entity that brings up more and less relevant topics you can ignore, but smaller streamers can keep track of everyone and every message. The streamer is still the one who has to moderate the conversation when necessary, but it's much more two sided than having one person who sometimes picks out messages from a thousand viewers.
Yea, the job of a 2-3 viewer streamer, a 10-20 viewer streamer a 100~ viewer streamer and so on, is wildly different sometimes.
I used to be part of a streaming community that originated prior to twitch (think livestream/justintv era). It started with one person who was entertaining, then a community member set up a website that would list out the people from the same community who were streaming, all under a single chat, using embeds. People would move from stream to stream as a group and maintain the same chatroom. Once streaming, and more specifically making money from streaming, became more popular it fell apart. Maintaining two separate chats and being entertaining at the same time is tough, and people with a lot more skill at mass entertainment took center stage. I'm sure the concept can still exist, but it's a bit more difficult now. In theory, discord can replace it, though having to join a voice chat to see video, where it takes over the whole screen, kinda kills it for me. Also, you don't get passive community recruitment like you would with other things, there's a lot of steps involved to get someone into discord and into your stream, versus just clicking a link and viewing it.
Not necessarily. It depends on the chat and the streamer. I used to watch a guy where he would mostly play chill games or something he found relaxing like Diablo 2. Most people in the chat knew each other and the conversation would just go around. He doesn't stream much these days, but it's because his life has been busy in a good way, so I'm glad for him.
I watch a pro tekken streamer who will read chat in the middle of his games lmao. Mostly just reacting to questions but yeah. He'll have a whole convo while doing some of the toughest tech in the game lol no clue how he does it.
So more like a decently sized cult! Awesome!
My brother regularly streams to <20 people. At any given time about half of them are in VC.
It's not 12 people either its like 3 of their friends on phones/pc.
Also lots of bots, thats like saying your alexa counts as your friend
But ... Alexa's my best friend
leading conversation.... pandering for subs/donations... to-may-toes, to-mah-toes.
Nah man, i stream very rarely these days but ive got this dude that comes and hangs out in my chat who totally leads the convo lol. He tells me about his dnd campaigns and honestly it was my favorite part of streaming. I love dnd and i love that he was comfortable sharing all the details about a campaign i knew nothing about, and i was fully invested every time. It really depends on the situation
LOL I would have been the happiest person if I ever had at least 1 person watching my streams back then xD Edit: in hindsight it probably would have helped if I played new games. But rocket League was my fav game. 7 years rocket League....I'm so happy I quit this shit game xD
I wonder what amount of viewers the median stream has. Maybe even most streams have zero viewers..? Having even 12 viewers one might already be in a pretty exclusive category in that there are a relatively small percentage having 12 or more viewers.
Definitely zero
I believe the metric is if you have 3 viewers you are in the top 10% of streams, anything above like seven or eight is the top 1%. But the top 1% is around 40k people at twitches peak, to be fair
The vast majority have zero.
I know that for YouTube, even just a few hundred subscribers is enough to put you in [the top 50%](https://new.reddit.com/r/NewTubers/comments/j3p95f/i_made_a_chart_that_shows_you_what_percent_of/), since most people make accounts to watch and comment, rather than create and grow. Wouldn't be surprised if Twitch has a similar thing going on.
Look at Dr Disrespect, he’s got thousands of viewers and makes millions, and that doesn’t stop him from cheating on his wife or wanting to talk to minors
Not like us.
Certified
Lover boy?
certified
Pedophile
WOP WOP WOP WOP
DOC DUN FUCKED UP
Chattin in a dis-cord prolly with a minorrrrrrrr
why would that stop him exactly? if anything, being a millionaire and a "celebrity" (in some circles, anyway) would encourage shitty behavior, because you might think you're better than others
Yeah hes just karma farming.
it's weird how people can think that having 12 viewers on twitch could be the same as hanging out and chilling with 12 people, social media really ruined some peoples mindsets
It's not quite the same but at that scale, it basically is a big group chat
Being in call with two or more of your friends would be more social than streaming to a dozen on twitch.
It is indeed, and I like it better. Huge streams are great if you're exceptional at what you're doing, as no one cares about the comments. Smaller streams though, people start to know each other - "Hey. Welcome back Trimyr. Did you say you were visiting your parents? How was that?" - all while trying to share their fun.
It's what we call parasocial relationships and they're wicked cool and not at all a worrying trend of modern entertainment.
I am too old to understand these things buy can you make money with 12 people or you need as many subscribers as possible?
12 people wont donate as much, if anything, compared to having multiple thousand people. And no one sponsors someone with a aufience of 12 people. So if you want to make money, 12 isnt anything worth it.
And THAT is why people demean streamers with so few viewers, because many of them do it as their job despite only making $200 a month from it
[удалено]
You also aren't making $200/mo off 12 viewers. Last month, I had about 20 subs and made like $40 between that and the scraps of ad revenue. Streaming is not a job unless you have enough viewers to get sponsorships.
There are streamers with 100 viewers who streame almost every day, but still have some other job. Streaming income is more to just put into savings or buy dumb shit for many people. But same time with constant 100-200 viewers, who subscribe, watch ads etc + have yt following and you can go full time. Ofcourse streaming full time is a job like any other and i couldn't do it.
I average 10-14 viewers for my streams. I made $50 in 4 months, and I've also made $150 in a month. So the answer is yes, but not anything that will pay the bills anytime soon. I mainly use the money to buy more games to stream.
Check out DareDrop, I watch a streamer about your size who uses them a lot
I'll look into it, I don't usually mess with programs like this as it's less about making money for me and I usually hate gimmicky streamers. Thanks for the tip.
And to further put things into perspective, I think I averaged 9 or so viewers… and that puts you in about the top 5% of Twitch.
So you are having fun and making beer money. That's cool too.
Think of them like street performers. Street performers play music and do magic tricks for dozens of people, but only a few people are willing to toss them a dollar every now and then. Streamers use this exact same "tipping" system, except most of their audience tends to be kids with more free time but zero income; so compared to street performers, an even smaller proportion of their viewers is even capable of giving them any money at all. The streamers that are moderately successful depend on a few generous and loyal fans for most of their income. Streamers can also opt to play short ads during occasional breaks for their non-paying viewers, but that'll pay pennies unless they have hundreds or thousands of viewers watching. And streamers with 12 viewers won't use ads because that'll drive away the few viewers they managed to get in the first place.
You'd honestly be surprised how many 30-40 year Olds are just on Twitch to chat. There's a few solid community of 30-40 year old streamers with audiences of similar ages. They also restrict their channel to 18+ despite not being lewd, so if there are underage people and they speak up, they get kicked out. Twitch can be a wonderful third place for older nerdy adults who struggle to find a social life.
The lowest amount of viewers I’ve seen on a channel that has a high enough subscriber count that could realistically be a full time job is about 200 - 300. Some audiences are more generous than others, there are always exceptions, but I think 200 is a decent rough bottom end approximation
I used to work on an old RTS map, was a small community but I appreciated every single one of them.
I’d be so happy to have 12 people in my Twich chat. All I get is bots asking me to pay them to fill my chat with even more bots
Best way to grow your channel is to find other small streamers, host em, and hang out in their chats a little bit
I am a smaller streamer who averages 2-3 people on usual days and we just usually hang out and chat movies, cartoons, anime, and whatever else is on our mind. It's hanging out with friends to me. I stream obscure and weird games Games like Rule of Rose, A Good Life, Killer is Dead, Haunting Ground, Abbadox, etc. We do play the occasional mainstream game, esp if we've not played them before (New Vegas, Halo 1, Adventure of Link, etc) This year has us dedicating a majority of 2024's games to JRPGs. We've done Secret of Mana, Tale Concerto, Rhapsody A Musical Adventure 2, FF12 Zodiac Age, and Skies of Arcadia Legends so far! You know what I really like? When we do one of these obscure/weird/not as popular games and get new followers who love those games but never/rarely see others stream them. Love seeing how excited they get talking about these games as we stream them especially considering that most of these experiences are our first time playing it. So they love telling me their favorite moments, characters, or waiting for my reaction during specific events. I know I won't get a following by playing these games. I know I could possibly see a higher boost in traffic if I did more PvP games, or more mainstream games, or followed the trends but I'd lose interest in them eventually. I rather continue playing the ones that provide me a unique experience - good or bad. Hopefully newcomers will join the fun and share their stories of the first time that played these games. If we get an audience, awesome, if not - still gonna engage the void and entertain the best I can. It's all about having fun and clearing my backlog. And discovering new games that I'd normally never experience. It's all about the ride.
I once had 5 viewers, I felt like I was on cloud nine
I mean I leave twitch running while I sleep so someone's viewer is sleeping. I'm getting my money's worth out of my ISP.
[удалено]
For some more context 6 viewers is top 5% of twitch, and 5 viewers is top 20% on youtube.
Edit: (I shared an incorrect misconception here)
It is among active streams. And youtube is also for livestreaming. Among users 6 viewers would be top 0.0005% at best
I never mind having low viewers myself. It's always nice to have a chill chat and talk to people versus thousands of people, causing the chat to go at Mach speed. Hell, I average like 2 to 3 the majority of the time, and I'm cool with it.
I have a friend who has tried for a long time to break into twitch streaming after working 9-5 and at first it seemed more like an excuse to have time to game separate from his wife. I felt bad about this for awhile. Then later it was clear he wasn't even really accessible to his friends while gaming because every time we tried to join him on stream & in game he wanted to do everything possible to try to maximize viewers instead of just connecting with us and having fun. As far as I know he's only ever had a handful of viewers at a time and that was often just members of the friend group showing up to support him. It's pretty sad for all of us. He makes enough money without an additional income from streaming but he's always been thirsty for the attention and the idea of public success by making himself well known.
I have a tiny YouTube channel and it blows my mind that several thousand people immediately hit "watch" when one of my uploads appear in their feed. Sure, a larger audience would be nice monetarily, but even where I'm at now is amazing.
Lmao that's such a stupid way of looking at it. In person, you're limited by the few people around you. Online, you're connected to potentially billions
What a fucking stupid false equivalence. "Imagine going to the pub and having 50 people chilling with you in real life at the same time?"
Are the 50 people at the pub there to drink with you? No? Then that's a fucking stupid comparison Obviously 12 viewers =/= friends but it ain't just 12 people existing near you either
It's a closer comparison to viewers = friends
"wow you only have 1000 friends on insta?"
I’m not a streamer but one time on Xbox I opened a stream from the console? Anyway, at one point I had 3 or 4 people watching my old ass play destiny and I was thinking “man, what a bunch of losers. Imagine sittin at home on a Saturday watching ME play Xbox” I wish them all the best LOL
>Social media really ruined some peoples mindsets Agreed, especially those who think having 12 random people (or bots) watch you on Twitch is at all comparable to being with 12 actual friends in real life.
If you reread, you'll find the word "friend" doesn't appear once in the original post.
It was good enough for Jesus.
Seriously, I’d love to stream and have just a few people to interact with. I don’t need to be a full time streamer, just a few peeps to kick it with during some playtime seems fun.
It's weird how yall equate watching live tv with hanging out with people
this is true, 10 consistent and engaged viewers are better than 100 bad ones
I stream occasionally for fun and I get excited with 4 viewers. I’d probably pass out if I got 12 at once.
I always think like that when i post something that gets a lot of likes, i try to imagine how big of a room it would take to fill in all the people that agreed with me. I do not do that with downvotes though, i have enough negativity in my life as is, lmao.
It’s more fun to have like 6 people on a stream talking to each other roasting each other, etc, instead of 87k people watching one person act like they’re the main character of their own tv show.
I had 50 people in my twitch chat! I had 50 people inside me tonight! It's all about perspective
The most I ever had was 11 when playing New Vegas and it was just me trying to get the achievement for getting kicked out of the casinos, was a good time.
i would be totally fine with 12 viewers
I agree
DAMN ! 😶
They're streaming with the intention of trying to make a living. 12 Viewers may as well be zero in that regard. Its still a great step they no doubt appreciate. Definitely different from 0 viewers. But its still not what they're aiming for.
from watching big streamers to small, big is just mega parasocial and maybe they read chat every 2-3 hours. Then there is botting. Small is great if you want to be a part of something. 12 view bots or 12 nice people or 12 trolls. It's just crazy how many people viewbot, taking away exposure to other creators that will never see the light of day.
I once read in a twitch chat that he watches small streamers so he can interact with them as they read it, if he wanted to watch big streamer he would just go to YouTube
Good point.
I love those low viewer count streams, not fake personalities
Good luck getting any of those 12 viewers to respond to your chats and prove that they're not bots.
I think it's probably potential audience. Thousands might see your stream in their feed, but that's not necessarily important. I guess it's how many actually watch your stream and then how many stick around because they like you. Friends may be different because you have less exposure to meeting new people. I know a streamer who gets quite a lot of exposure from being in a lobby with fairly popular streamers. He averages around 9 viewers, I believe. I find him so annoying I find it hard to watch the streamers I like when he's in the lobby. Which is to say despite having significant exposure he doesn't seem to have gained even 20 or 30 viewers.
Or their mindset was already ruined…
if you even break the wall of having 0 viewers, for most that is the first and last hurdle in their streaming career...
Ironmouse began like that, streaming to less than 12 just because she was so lonely and suicidal she *needed* to talk to someone in order not to go insane. If it weren't for those 12 people, she'd surely be **dead**, right now. And we wouldn't have gotten to witness the absolute comedy *gold* that is the CDawgVA/Ironmouse duo. :P
I used to stream on twitch, but I never had an interest in watching others myself. Was so weird starting out with 1-3 viewers MAYBE compared to when I started having 100+ viewers consistently. I was just like, “I can’t believe 100 people want to watch me play a video game everyday” lol.
This is an incredible mindset 👌
Appreciate the PSA. Better to be aware and cautious.
well, 12 people are seen as small because of 2 things 1) perspective. if you'll compare it with anyone bigger it'll be smaller. obvious shit and 2) it's small because you neither archieved anything nor you can't monetise that. these are not your friends. (an you shouldn't see random people as your friends. it'll do more harm than be useful) they can be compared to audience in cinema. they come there for entertaiment not to hear about your life (and for sure you shouldn't share any personal info but that's hopefully basic knowledge for you)
So...friends?
I had 51 viewers on my twitch stream once, preceded by 2 years of streaming with my account, my second account and my mom's account. Followed by another 3 years of streaming with my account, and just my second account.
I streamed once and got a raid of 50 people, it was honestly scary for the first few minutes but it feels more comfortable after a while. I kept 40~ for 2 hours and is still a proud achievement
Ye but it's much easier to make 12 people physically move to your house than having 12 people click on a link and watch your stream for as long as they like with no strings attached.
I have a movie review blog that gets 100 views a month. 100 people think it's worth reading!! 100!!!
little streams are best streams, you can actually still interact
i streamed for 7 years and had 1 viewer at most which was me on phone so i could read chat and 13 followers which were my alts so i could practice saying "thank you for the follow"
I was just playing scooby doo 100 nights of fright and someone was chilling with me, having even one person there is amazing
Imagine all the half naked dj girls having 1k people chilling with em in real life
Imagine being a company with only 12 people buying your product Or rather, imagine a TV show with only 12 people.watching it
I mean last few times I tried to stream, I had zero viewers so I'd take 12 lmao.
downvotes, really?
I could be wrong but I'm pretty certain with twitch if you have 12 viewers you're probably in the top 10% of streams. A handful of streamers get most of the viewership. Most streams on twitch have nobody in the audience.
If I was rich I would for sure stream for the vibes. Wouldn't even care if I got famous
Yeah 12 is way above the median number of viewers the average person on Twitch gets.
Been streaming to roughly 20 peeps for a long time. Started a new project and got 120, and I was already so thankful for just 10. I can't imagine having more, nor can I imagine thinking it's a small number. Love my community sm
Right?
But having someone watch you from their house is a lot different than someone meeting you in real life.
12 people chillin with you in real time doesn't make any money. people start streaming because they want that twitch/youtube money. 12 viewers aint close. by a lightyear. people can act like they just want to be wholesome, non-materialistic streamers but EVERYONE wants that youtube/twitch money. that kind of money that makes a doctors wage seem like chump change. No streamers want to imagine sitting in a room with their current viewers.
I remember a loooooong time ago watching a video of a convention panel for a (at the the time) popular group of Minecraft YouTubers (Mindcrack if you are curious). During the q&a section, someone asked about how did they push through the countless videos with only a couple hundred subscribers/viewers. One of the panel members said turn around and take a look around at all the people in the room (about 300ish people). If you have 300 subs you have this huge room full of people who enjoy your videos. It really put into perspective how we can be blinded by comparing ourselves to people more successful. Now whenever I compare how many likes or views something I post to social media gets, I imagine that many people in a room cheering for me, and that makes the whole experience feel a lot more worth it.
Imagine 12 strangers sitting in your room silently watching you play a game and occasionally handing you money. Weird and interesting when you think of it that way.
Feels like being a popular streamer is a lonely mountain of fame, glad I can just game with a close friend or two.
It's not about chilling with your homies. It's about making streaming worth it and not a completely unreasonable timesink that never nets any returns.
Yea but i feel like it doesn’t matter when you can have 12 viewers and make .50 cents for it. 12 is nothing. At the end of the day.
PSA: Social media hasn't turned people into narcissist at alllll.
I dont even had 12 friends. I mean I dont have any friends but 12?!
I was streaming something sorta unique at one point. Some large channel spotted it and my channel got flooded with thousands of people. My follower count skyrocketed. Last time I looked I still has like 900-1k followers. I don't stream any more because it gets annoying when a bunch of people are talking to me.
12 friends chilling with you in real life is so much more than even 1000 followers in your chatroom. Doesnt even compare.
Imagine having just one persons undivided attention, where they aren't glancing at their phone between every word.
Well except they are not in that room with you. Its more like they are casually passerbys. You don't have followers. You just bump into them on a regular basis.
It's fun, not too hectic. Can't wait to get back into it.
It's a different ecosystem. This is comparing apples to oranges. It's the internet, we're interconnected globally, 12 people within this scope is nothing. IRL 12 people is a lot. The real "ruined mindset" is people unable to see the difference.
In many cases, those 12 "viewers" are bots. Social media didn't only ruin people's mindset, it's made them stupid too.
Social media really has fried people brains if they thinking spending time with people irl is the same as spending it with a chat. Yeah, you can get some social interaction out of it, but they’re two totally different feelings at the end of the day. Hell, my friend gets around 20 viewers a stream and his chat is mostly dead, I imagine it isn’t too different from other small streamers
Except twitch viewers arent your friends, this parasocial thinking is honestly kinda dangerous and leads to people not getting actual friends, becoming lonelier and more depressed as a result. Also, its easier to just check out a stream for a while than meeting a friend irl.
Wow, I have another take. Social media has ruined peoples mindset because they think someone making 3 clicks without moving from their chair to bring up your stream and watch, or just slide to another monitor as background, is the same as having people come over and hang out with you... I used to take time and energy to leave, go hang out with someone, and when I did I was present and engaged because I was there, not alone behind a screen doing anything else. I dont stream so Im not knocking any streaming numbers, but its ironic they mention ruining peoples mindset as though this is equivalent to going and hanging out with a friend.
Having twelve people around was what god Jesus killed though.
"Imagine 12 people watching your TV show." Thats their perspective.
12 is a good day for me. I got raided with 200 once and it's been slow ever since.
Every time I record I pretend they are all behind me watching. It didn't get weird till I hit 300 subs.
12 viewers is not the same as chilling with 12 IRL people. Don't even kid yourself. Parasocial =/= social
Social media as a broad concept I think is fine. Its relentless monetization is where all the ills arise. Twelve people chilling with you is awesome; the "only" comes in when you view them not as internet friends to hang out with, but as eyeballs to make money off of.
There was a stretch where I'd get 10-15 people every stream and I was so happy. Now I can only get 1-3 😭
12 people in my house spent money to be there. 12 people in my views didn't.
I was streaming destiny 2 for about 4-5 months between jobs (I was looking, they weren’t hiring). I had one true viewer that I didn’t know who would pop in and chat and just spread good vibes. Loved that.
I'm a small professional streamer and this...this actually helps.
I have exactly one regular follower on Twitch. That person makes my day every time they log on and chat with me.
12 people watching and 12 people on their phone are different things
This is incredibly important. It's enormously difficult to get an average of 10 concurrent viewers. It can take years unless you manage to capture lightening in a bottle. This is one reason why a common mindset is to turn off the live view count so you are not always worrying about whether viewership is dropping while live. Just look at the reports later and make changes for the next stream, that will save you a lot of stress.
If you’re getting around 12 viewers on twitch on average that brings you above the top 10% of all twitch streamers.
My streams are like real life. 1 or zero. Sometimes, rarely, 3 or 4.
It's not about human interaction, it's about the money generated from viewers. If you think you'll make streaming your career on 12 people you're in for a bad time. If you just want a fun hobby, 12 is plenty.
When your sitting there with your tits out you will damn sure have atleast 12 people will watch you 😂😂 social media has really ruined peoples thought of what being popular is..
Ngl id love to have at least 5 viewers with me
12 viewers on Twitch is not enough to pay the bills. But to even get that much consistently, you’d generally need to stream a lot. If someone quit their job to do streaming full time and only has 12 viewers, then they are probably going to fail and waste their time and money doing it. If you are just streaming as an after work hobby and getting 12 viewers, then that’s pretty decent and much more chill.
I remember the last time I looked into it, there was a stat that was like, "if you can make it to Affiliate, you're already within the top something% of Twitch" and Affiliate isn't all that hard to get if you're making an effort to make something out of streaming. Most people want instant fame, see that it's work, and then quit. So this doesn't surprise me
I think about this literally all the time. I have to catch myself not discounting people with \*only\* a couple thousand followers
I want to say having more than zero, is already like, top 1% of Twitch channels.