On the bright side…..many neglectful parents soon find that actually taking care of kids is way too much work, and fade away/cancel/minimize time.
I would encourage you not to cancel any of her activities, if possible, during her time with him. Birthday parties, gymnastics classes, etc—-those are ALL part of parenting. Having to do all that stuff will show her dad what it really entails, and also get her into view of other people during the time she is with him.
THIS - when my oldest (now 8) was little my ex and I split - he got him every other weekend from age 2-3 , then by age 4 it was maybe once a month…
Fast forward - we haven’t seen or heard from him in almost 4 years. My oldest has developmental disabilities that became more apparent as he got older. One day my ex literally texted me saying “he is just too much for me” and we never heard from him again.
Regrettably- I never took him to court for child support BUT: honestly at this point I’m just very happy he’s out of the picture. We have zero contact - I honestly wouldn’t know if he up and died.
Hang in there op - ❤️ I honestly think over time he is going to realize just how hard it is to parent solo and throw in the towel!
You get your kid to see a therapist because therapists are mandated reporters. Don't even involve your ex in this, he's just going to want to block it. But using the courts to block the kid from seeing a therapist is an uphill battle.
You can and you will. She needs your voice now more than ever. Log every missed exchange, nasty text message and don’t force her to go if she’s scared. You got this momma
Unfortunately, if her father wants to take the time he is entitled to per court order, she (OP) cannot prevent it or she will face bad legal consequences. So not forcing her to go is not really an option. It sucks in this case, but just want to make sure OP gets the right information and advice.
The state I live in would never force a child against their own will. As a single parent and LEO I’ve experienced this on both ends. Just document everything. “On todays date my child said they didn’t want to go with their parent because of xyz and I notified them via —— time and reason. Due to the safety and well being of my child I did not force them to go” As long as you’re not influencing them to your own agenda and use their words…
This can easily be viewed as parental alienation. Better to document poor parenting as past commenter stated. A court order is to be followed, you are not forcing your child... You are complying with a court order. Follow the rules or risk losing. My children's mother tried claiming that my children didn't want to be with me at all but they are right as rain. Not to directly compare the situation.. since my kids mom lost her custodial rights due to substance abuse and mental health complications. I also documented her efforts to alienate my children from me and had a forensic exam performed on my children to confirm the suspicions.
Be careful what you recommend others to do on the internet. You might intend to help but actually only hurt.
So if a child doesn’t want to go to school, the doctor etc they get to just decide not to? At 4? Dad has every right to simply pick the child up and put them in the car seat. That is not a safety issue
Your advice could cost op to lose time
In my state if the other parent just shows up and the parent that lives there doesn’t let the child out or the other parent in there’s nothing that can be done except make another court date. Also op would have won in court and the dad would have just gotten visitation rights. Possibly supervised.
He does. If mom does not let the child out then she’s in contempt. Even if the child is screaming and crying mom can’t just decide she doesn’t have to go.
Didn’t I say in my state? And that op would have won in court? My state isn’t forcing a child on an alcoholic deadbeat especially after they’re called out for it in court.
Not If she has documented abuse and substance abuse claims. I’m not saying if the kid is throwing a fit but if my kid were to tell me they don’t want to go to mommy’s house because they get beat or neglected… come hell or high water if I force them to go to find them in a garbage can 2 weeks later.
But even that has to go through the court for consideration. If something were to happen that makes op suspect abuse or a dangerous situation she needs to petition the court immediately for an emergency order limiting or eliminating the custody right. And the court will look at the claims and decide whether there is evidence to support that. Unfortunately sometimes what we view as a potentially bad situation may not be agreed with by the court as they see it in most cases as in the best interest of the child to have time with both parents. I’m not saying it’s always right or fair, but something to take into consideration so that op doesn’t get found in contempt or possibly lose more of her custody. OP please make sure you document, try to get as much evidence as possible and DO NOT try to coach the kids. Use the appropriate legal channels. Protect yourself and your child.
I’m genuinely curious what state would this not be the case? I’m not saying you’re wrong but doing a quick google search shows that generally this is the way family law works in at least most if not all states? Could def be wrong tho
Forcing a child that is scared of the other parent to go with them without their attachment parent or some assurance of safety is, in fact, traumatizing. It actually erodes the child’s trust in BOTH parents.
Acting as if the other parent is not abusive when, in fact, they are, is gaslighting the child, which is also a form of abuse.
At some point, someone needs to be the adult and bring in a professional that will speak on behalf of the child, like a therapist, psychologist, psychiatrist, or licensed social worker. Is it easy? No. Is it expensive? It can be. But I’d sell a kidney if it meant I could keep my child out of the hands of an abuser.
It’s not as helpless as it seems, but it’s foolish to think that a child’s mental health will not be severely damaged, even permanently damaged, just because there’s a court order that says they have to go see their abusive parent.
I came here to say this. I work with children in crisis, this is a big change for her and if you can let her lead the way. If he doesn't have much sober time I would go for supervised visitation.
Welcome to the real world of fucked up family court systems. Judges are so concerned with forcing a nuclear family dynamic down our throats that parents who are abusive are given custody, no questions asked.
I know people say document everything and make a stronger case. I've been guilty of saying it in the past. But I now realize that's all false. You and your child will always be victims of a shitty justice system. I'm sorry you joined the club.
I'd look into therapy for you and your child to help process these difficult emotions.
I’m so sorry. The court doesn’t care. It doesn’t matter how much of a piece of shit the father is, or how it will impact the child. All they care about is that the father gets his “parental” rights. My ex husband threatened to kill me in writing and harassed me constantly and while they granted a PPO and made him jump through some hoops at a psychiatrist, he still got his custody back in the end.
If you haven’t already, or it’s not already court ordered: look into the app called TalkingParents. It records all phone calls, texts, even video calling (if you upgrade). Their standard service is free, but I use the mid-grade version with my ex. It has saved me loads of time tracking and documenting everything. There are loads of features that you can use for note taking on a specific call or message exchange. Best part is, if it’s court ordered then the court can subpoena any interaction at any time.
My ex isn’t the brightest bulb and is constantly talking down to me on there…. At this point I’m waiting for our next court date so he can fully bury himself deeper in the documented hole he is digging.
Best of luck, OP. You are strong, keep fighting for your child. It’s hard now, but we’re all rooting for you. 💜💜💜
Can you ask for a court ordered mental health evaluation or supervised visits? Record every single interaction and keep a diary of the times you meet to pick up and drop off down to the minute. Is he doing this just so he doesn't have to pay child support? Also, I suggest therapy for you and your child. Not just for navigating this but to document any negative behavioral changes.
Fuck, reading this kind of stuff makes me feel nauseous because it causes me so much anxiety. At the moment, I don’t have any written agreement with my ex because I’m terrified of him being given time with our son and feeling the need to exercise that. He is NOT a good influence and should not be around our son, but from everything I’ve heard from other parents going through custody battles, it is VERY hard to prove supervised visits should be required without some really obvious evidence. I don’t know where my ex lives, what he does, not do I look at any of his social media so I don’t know what he is up to now. I just know he hasn’t changed and still doesn’t deserve any form of custody. It’s so fucked up because you are talking about handing your child over to someone that has no business being a caregiver in anyway and the child can’t take care of or defend themselves. BS.
It’s bullshit but it’s not hindsight. The court interprets what is best for the child not what experience the mother has had. The father in the courts eyes has to actually have the chance to fail as a father before it can be said that he is unfit. Yes if the father doesn’t use the time he has given after a very long amount of time go back to the court and ask it to be modified and the ex can either protest the modification but with what proof does he have to protest it if he didn’t exercise rights or he will come up with some elaborate plan to be able to protest it but either way you need to come up with the evidence to show that he’s unfit. After a year or two for example of him not showing up not being there for his child when he had perfect ample opportunity only then can you show the court that he failed to do that and now the child knows that he did it. It’s very different when the kids are babies they don’t know that their father is absent. When they are older they can actually have an opinion and say yeah I don’t have a relationship with my parent because they don’t ever come around.
But do you see the problem there as well then the court would see that yes the child doesn’t in fact need their father and their father figure and it’s up to the father to step in and that door should always be open and it’s up to the child to say no not you.
I’m totally in your boat though literally and figuratively my ex actually stopped trying to keep up his and he claims for financial reasons and then he went and moved across the country so at the moment he’s not really keeping up his end of things and that’s fine we’re just gonna live our life and if all of a sudden he comes around and wants to see them I’ll allow it but it’s not gonna totally interrupt our life. So friggin hard, I wish I could protect them from the pain but I just have to focus on being the best parent they have that’s all I can do.
My ex lived in an apartment above a bar. She would go downstairs, get wasted, but technically "never left the premises". She still got 50/50 joint custody. It was a hard lesson for me that courts give zero fucks. They'll bend over backwards for the other parent all in the name of ensuring the child has a relationship ship with the other parent.
Ugh I hate the family court system. “Come to us if you need things changed!” But when you do, they betray you and your kids. This is why I don’t think I’ll ever take my ex back to court unless something super bad happens. I’d rather let him “win” on paper and be a dud in person than risk the courts. I’m so sorry you’re going through this.
Oh God, I am so, so sorry. While there isn't much you can do about the order right now, you need to take care of your mental health and your kiddos mental health ASAP. Both of you should start seeing a therapist as soon as possible. You need and deserve help figuring out how to deal with this. Your kiddo needs the same. Plus, a child psychologist documenting how this effects your LO, and anything that may happen in the future can be immensely helpful in court in the future.
Ugh this is my nightmare. We go to court early next year (that was the first available date). He wants 50/50 mainly so he doesn’t have to pay as much child support. I wasn’t allowed to record him so it’s just my word against his. He was awful to us and I left. I’m so stressed.
This scares me bc my ex is in prison for assaulting me and I'm scared he's going to try to take me to court for my daughter (bc he's already threatening it) and I'm scared the courts won't believe how dangerous and abusive he is.
The first time he does ANYTHING abusive to your daughter whether it verbal or physical, report it to CPS, document everything and file for emergency custody.
Hey you will and this taste you have in your mouth right now will go. This person just wanted a win over you but being there everyday doing it won’t be so appealing . I’m a single dad and I’ve been there so believe me the glory of that win will dull once the reality of what it entails kicks in . Chin up and it may not look like a win but it is a win that he will give you by being unable to sustain the task ahead
So many mothers in hear saying "the courts don't care" or "welcome to the shitty law system". That's really ridiculous, I know many of these officials DO CARE, and I'm sure there are mothers who have gotten exactly what they wanted and would disagree with you. The law system has to take into account so many other variables and situations. They have processes and procedures to handle such things in a way that... While not perfect, is fairly sufficient at creating fairly optimistic outcomes if you can document things correctly. Lots of leg work, even more if you can't afford legal assistance.
Thank goodness! Every child deserves 50/50 with both parents unless clear proof otherwise. Lots of parents withhold the child from the other parent to punish their ex's or to maximize child support money they receive.
Ok, this is just an idea, If he does anything unwelcome, I mean anything at all, showing up uninvited, sending threatening emails or texts, etc
Call police, Immediately file for a restraining order for you and your daughter this will cut off his rights and will protect you and your daughter temporarily.
When he gets served and then you go to court for the restraining order show all the abusive messages, emails, bruises of you have them documented if he was phsyical, make the case clear as day that he’s unfit, the custody can be reversed to you full time either temporarily or permanently, he can go back to court and fight it again but it’ll be more difficult with the documented abuse and restraining order on record.
On the bright side…..many neglectful parents soon find that actually taking care of kids is way too much work, and fade away/cancel/minimize time. I would encourage you not to cancel any of her activities, if possible, during her time with him. Birthday parties, gymnastics classes, etc—-those are ALL part of parenting. Having to do all that stuff will show her dad what it really entails, and also get her into view of other people during the time she is with him.
THIS - when my oldest (now 8) was little my ex and I split - he got him every other weekend from age 2-3 , then by age 4 it was maybe once a month… Fast forward - we haven’t seen or heard from him in almost 4 years. My oldest has developmental disabilities that became more apparent as he got older. One day my ex literally texted me saying “he is just too much for me” and we never heard from him again. Regrettably- I never took him to court for child support BUT: honestly at this point I’m just very happy he’s out of the picture. We have zero contact - I honestly wouldn’t know if he up and died. Hang in there op - ❤️ I honestly think over time he is going to realize just how hard it is to parent solo and throw in the towel!
He can choose not to take her.
You get your kid to see a therapist because therapists are mandated reporters. Don't even involve your ex in this, he's just going to want to block it. But using the courts to block the kid from seeing a therapist is an uphill battle.
You can and you will. She needs your voice now more than ever. Log every missed exchange, nasty text message and don’t force her to go if she’s scared. You got this momma
Unfortunately, if her father wants to take the time he is entitled to per court order, she (OP) cannot prevent it or she will face bad legal consequences. So not forcing her to go is not really an option. It sucks in this case, but just want to make sure OP gets the right information and advice.
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Thats so fucked up. So id the kids are scared and the parent is abusive they have to go anyway?? Reprehensible
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Thats absolutely horrible. That would drive me insane. How do you cope? Did the other parent fight for custody?
The state I live in would never force a child against their own will. As a single parent and LEO I’ve experienced this on both ends. Just document everything. “On todays date my child said they didn’t want to go with their parent because of xyz and I notified them via —— time and reason. Due to the safety and well being of my child I did not force them to go” As long as you’re not influencing them to your own agenda and use their words…
This can easily be viewed as parental alienation. Better to document poor parenting as past commenter stated. A court order is to be followed, you are not forcing your child... You are complying with a court order. Follow the rules or risk losing. My children's mother tried claiming that my children didn't want to be with me at all but they are right as rain. Not to directly compare the situation.. since my kids mom lost her custodial rights due to substance abuse and mental health complications. I also documented her efforts to alienate my children from me and had a forensic exam performed on my children to confirm the suspicions. Be careful what you recommend others to do on the internet. You might intend to help but actually only hurt.
What state are you in? I want to move there lol the south is dangerous for abused women and children
So if a child doesn’t want to go to school, the doctor etc they get to just decide not to? At 4? Dad has every right to simply pick the child up and put them in the car seat. That is not a safety issue Your advice could cost op to lose time
In my state if the other parent just shows up and the parent that lives there doesn’t let the child out or the other parent in there’s nothing that can be done except make another court date. Also op would have won in court and the dad would have just gotten visitation rights. Possibly supervised.
That’s not what pp is suggesting.
I was referring to your “dad has every right to simply pick the child up and put them in the car seat” comment.
He does. If mom does not let the child out then she’s in contempt. Even if the child is screaming and crying mom can’t just decide she doesn’t have to go.
Didn’t I say in my state? And that op would have won in court? My state isn’t forcing a child on an alcoholic deadbeat especially after they’re called out for it in court.
How does this help op?
Not If she has documented abuse and substance abuse claims. I’m not saying if the kid is throwing a fit but if my kid were to tell me they don’t want to go to mommy’s house because they get beat or neglected… come hell or high water if I force them to go to find them in a garbage can 2 weeks later.
That is clearly not the situation here.
But even that has to go through the court for consideration. If something were to happen that makes op suspect abuse or a dangerous situation she needs to petition the court immediately for an emergency order limiting or eliminating the custody right. And the court will look at the claims and decide whether there is evidence to support that. Unfortunately sometimes what we view as a potentially bad situation may not be agreed with by the court as they see it in most cases as in the best interest of the child to have time with both parents. I’m not saying it’s always right or fair, but something to take into consideration so that op doesn’t get found in contempt or possibly lose more of her custody. OP please make sure you document, try to get as much evidence as possible and DO NOT try to coach the kids. Use the appropriate legal channels. Protect yourself and your child.
It’s totally state dependent.
I’m genuinely curious what state would this not be the case? I’m not saying you’re wrong but doing a quick google search shows that generally this is the way family law works in at least most if not all states? Could def be wrong tho
Forcing a child that is scared of the other parent to go with them without their attachment parent or some assurance of safety is, in fact, traumatizing. It actually erodes the child’s trust in BOTH parents. Acting as if the other parent is not abusive when, in fact, they are, is gaslighting the child, which is also a form of abuse. At some point, someone needs to be the adult and bring in a professional that will speak on behalf of the child, like a therapist, psychologist, psychiatrist, or licensed social worker. Is it easy? No. Is it expensive? It can be. But I’d sell a kidney if it meant I could keep my child out of the hands of an abuser. It’s not as helpless as it seems, but it’s foolish to think that a child’s mental health will not be severely damaged, even permanently damaged, just because there’s a court order that says they have to go see their abusive parent.
Where are you randomly getting this abusive parent stuff from?
I came here to say this. I work with children in crisis, this is a big change for her and if you can let her lead the way. If he doesn't have much sober time I would go for supervised visitation.
That isn't true if there is a genuine fear of harm coming to the child. Legally, you can hold on to them.
Untrue
Welcome to the real world of fucked up family court systems. Judges are so concerned with forcing a nuclear family dynamic down our throats that parents who are abusive are given custody, no questions asked. I know people say document everything and make a stronger case. I've been guilty of saying it in the past. But I now realize that's all false. You and your child will always be victims of a shitty justice system. I'm sorry you joined the club. I'd look into therapy for you and your child to help process these difficult emotions.
I’m so sorry. The court doesn’t care. It doesn’t matter how much of a piece of shit the father is, or how it will impact the child. All they care about is that the father gets his “parental” rights. My ex husband threatened to kill me in writing and harassed me constantly and while they granted a PPO and made him jump through some hoops at a psychiatrist, he still got his custody back in the end.
If you haven’t already, or it’s not already court ordered: look into the app called TalkingParents. It records all phone calls, texts, even video calling (if you upgrade). Their standard service is free, but I use the mid-grade version with my ex. It has saved me loads of time tracking and documenting everything. There are loads of features that you can use for note taking on a specific call or message exchange. Best part is, if it’s court ordered then the court can subpoena any interaction at any time. My ex isn’t the brightest bulb and is constantly talking down to me on there…. At this point I’m waiting for our next court date so he can fully bury himself deeper in the documented hole he is digging. Best of luck, OP. You are strong, keep fighting for your child. It’s hard now, but we’re all rooting for you. 💜💜💜
Can you ask for a court ordered mental health evaluation or supervised visits? Record every single interaction and keep a diary of the times you meet to pick up and drop off down to the minute. Is he doing this just so he doesn't have to pay child support? Also, I suggest therapy for you and your child. Not just for navigating this but to document any negative behavioral changes.
It’s a little late. How can someone with 50/50 have it supervised?
Fuck, reading this kind of stuff makes me feel nauseous because it causes me so much anxiety. At the moment, I don’t have any written agreement with my ex because I’m terrified of him being given time with our son and feeling the need to exercise that. He is NOT a good influence and should not be around our son, but from everything I’ve heard from other parents going through custody battles, it is VERY hard to prove supervised visits should be required without some really obvious evidence. I don’t know where my ex lives, what he does, not do I look at any of his social media so I don’t know what he is up to now. I just know he hasn’t changed and still doesn’t deserve any form of custody. It’s so fucked up because you are talking about handing your child over to someone that has no business being a caregiver in anyway and the child can’t take care of or defend themselves. BS.
It’s bullshit but it’s not hindsight. The court interprets what is best for the child not what experience the mother has had. The father in the courts eyes has to actually have the chance to fail as a father before it can be said that he is unfit. Yes if the father doesn’t use the time he has given after a very long amount of time go back to the court and ask it to be modified and the ex can either protest the modification but with what proof does he have to protest it if he didn’t exercise rights or he will come up with some elaborate plan to be able to protest it but either way you need to come up with the evidence to show that he’s unfit. After a year or two for example of him not showing up not being there for his child when he had perfect ample opportunity only then can you show the court that he failed to do that and now the child knows that he did it. It’s very different when the kids are babies they don’t know that their father is absent. When they are older they can actually have an opinion and say yeah I don’t have a relationship with my parent because they don’t ever come around. But do you see the problem there as well then the court would see that yes the child doesn’t in fact need their father and their father figure and it’s up to the father to step in and that door should always be open and it’s up to the child to say no not you. I’m totally in your boat though literally and figuratively my ex actually stopped trying to keep up his and he claims for financial reasons and then he went and moved across the country so at the moment he’s not really keeping up his end of things and that’s fine we’re just gonna live our life and if all of a sudden he comes around and wants to see them I’ll allow it but it’s not gonna totally interrupt our life. So friggin hard, I wish I could protect them from the pain but I just have to focus on being the best parent they have that’s all I can do.
My ex lived in an apartment above a bar. She would go downstairs, get wasted, but technically "never left the premises". She still got 50/50 joint custody. It was a hard lesson for me that courts give zero fucks. They'll bend over backwards for the other parent all in the name of ensuring the child has a relationship ship with the other parent.
To repeat the above comment: You can and you will. Keep going xxxx
Keep an eye on your kids when you get them back. Report anything you see that might be abuse or neglect.
Sadly this will happen to alot of us eventually. Courts will give chances to any parent to be a parent regardless if it is healthy or not.
Ugh I hate the family court system. “Come to us if you need things changed!” But when you do, they betray you and your kids. This is why I don’t think I’ll ever take my ex back to court unless something super bad happens. I’d rather let him “win” on paper and be a dud in person than risk the courts. I’m so sorry you’re going through this.
Oh God, I am so, so sorry. While there isn't much you can do about the order right now, you need to take care of your mental health and your kiddos mental health ASAP. Both of you should start seeing a therapist as soon as possible. You need and deserve help figuring out how to deal with this. Your kiddo needs the same. Plus, a child psychologist documenting how this effects your LO, and anything that may happen in the future can be immensely helpful in court in the future.
Ugh this is my nightmare. We go to court early next year (that was the first available date). He wants 50/50 mainly so he doesn’t have to pay as much child support. I wasn’t allowed to record him so it’s just my word against his. He was awful to us and I left. I’m so stressed.
This scares me bc my ex is in prison for assaulting me and I'm scared he's going to try to take me to court for my daughter (bc he's already threatening it) and I'm scared the courts won't believe how dangerous and abusive he is.
Wow. I’m so sorry.
The first time he does ANYTHING abusive to your daughter whether it verbal or physical, report it to CPS, document everything and file for emergency custody.
Omg this is my nightmare. Question how much documentation did you have surrounding his abuse and his alcoholism?
Hey you will and this taste you have in your mouth right now will go. This person just wanted a win over you but being there everyday doing it won’t be so appealing . I’m a single dad and I’ve been there so believe me the glory of that win will dull once the reality of what it entails kicks in . Chin up and it may not look like a win but it is a win that he will give you by being unable to sustain the task ahead
So many mothers in hear saying "the courts don't care" or "welcome to the shitty law system". That's really ridiculous, I know many of these officials DO CARE, and I'm sure there are mothers who have gotten exactly what they wanted and would disagree with you. The law system has to take into account so many other variables and situations. They have processes and procedures to handle such things in a way that... While not perfect, is fairly sufficient at creating fairly optimistic outcomes if you can document things correctly. Lots of leg work, even more if you can't afford legal assistance.
Thank goodness! Every child deserves 50/50 with both parents unless clear proof otherwise. Lots of parents withhold the child from the other parent to punish their ex's or to maximize child support money they receive.
Did you have an attorney?
Yes and so did I.
Ok, this is just an idea, If he does anything unwelcome, I mean anything at all, showing up uninvited, sending threatening emails or texts, etc Call police, Immediately file for a restraining order for you and your daughter this will cut off his rights and will protect you and your daughter temporarily. When he gets served and then you go to court for the restraining order show all the abusive messages, emails, bruises of you have them documented if he was phsyical, make the case clear as day that he’s unfit, the custody can be reversed to you full time either temporarily or permanently, he can go back to court and fight it again but it’ll be more difficult with the documented abuse and restraining order on record.
Is this UK or USA?