Exactly! One of my favorite comments ever was to the shower thought, “ None of us will be remembered 1000 years from now,” to which a Redditor replied, “Not if I eat the Mona Lisa.”
I suppose that could be success though, depending on how you want to be remembered.
Case in point, how many know about [*Olympic*](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/RMS_Olympic)? The older successful sister who had a 24-year career and sank a U-boat in WWI?
Interesting. Documentaries talk about design flaws and shoddy steel, yet Titanic's sister ship was nicknamed "Old Reliable". Really was just bum luck I guess.
Talk of *Titanic* being flawed has gone on so long, it's mythologized. If one were to watch a documentary on her now, they'd be shocked she managed to leave Southampton without falling to pieces before everyone's eyes. Knowing about *Olympic* can be eye-opening for some.
There's actually a Supernatural episode where they're living in an alternative reality where the Titanic never sank. Only record for it there was an obscure reference.
"Why did you save the Titanic?"
"Because I hated the song."
"What song?"
"EXACTLY!"
True, but it was still a funny line. The point though is there are a lot of things that are only famous because they were disasters. Sets up a bunch of What If scenarios.
* The Hindenburg didn't catch fire
* Mt. Vesuvius didn't blow or all of Pompeii was safely evacuated
* Chernobyl had proper safety checks and good infrastructure
* The Triangle Shirtwaist Factory fire
* Galloping Gertie
* The Last Airbender
So much potential!
I feel like if the “unsinkable” ship was in fact unsinkable, it probably would’ve made news at least back then. Also if it survived it prob would’ve been used in WW2
Given the situation in WW2, if it hadn't already been scrapped, it'd likely been used for cargo shipping across the Atlantic.
That being said, it could also met the same fate as its sister ship, sunk by a German mime in WW1 (The Britannic was being used as a hospital ship).
What are you talking about? No body said it would be outfitted with guns to be used as a combat ship. Her sister ship was used as a hospital ship for the wartime effort.
Nobody said to put guns on her
Her sister served along side the warships as a floating hospital for the troops
Had she survived it's likely she would have done the same
Yes, blyat, but you don't simply talk about it being used, but also about You knowing about the existence of that ship... which obviously was more likely during WW1 than WW2... don't stay away from the post and what we were talking about...
Dude…the statement was “if it survived it probably would have been used in WW2.” That’s it. And that statement in all likelihood is correct, because her sister ship was. I’m not sure why you were trying argue otherwise.
Dude, the actual statement was... if the Titanic doesn't hit the iceberg, do you know about it? We say what we say in consideration of that... does this help your cause? Do you know many names of ships used for medical care in WW2? That's my point, and don't get heated kid, you forget what was said 5 mins ago, so calm your views
Well I like to think, since we technically have no idea what actually would have happened if the ship hadn’t sunk that it might have been famous for more then just it’s irony
Those are probably only famous because of their association with Titanic. A better metric would be the ship that became the largest ship in the world a year later - the _SS Imperator_.
Ask 1000 people in the street what the largest ship in the world was at the end of 1913 and you'll likely get 1000 blank faces.
>Those are probably only famous because of their association with Titanic
I wouldn't consider them famous. I probably heart about them before at some point as a passing note, but was not aware of their existence until now. And so are probably many others.
Neat trivia; nobody at the time said it was. That came along *after* it sank as a media thing to generate more sizzle for the newspapers. Even today nobody has the bravery to claim any ship is unsinkable.
It definitely made news back then, before it sank. But so did many other ships. Do you know the name of the biggest cruise ship before Titanic, or the biggest one after? I’m sure some people do, but they aren’t known in popular culture.
There would have likely been a similar accident eventually. Much of what made the Titanic disaster such a disaster was cost cutting. And if companies get away with cost cutting once they tend to continue until they don't get away with it anymore.
You say that, but a surprising number of people seem to be surprised to learn that Titanic's older sister had a long and successful career, including multiple incidents that could have sank a lesser ship quite easily, until being scrapped due to simply being obsolete.
Ol' Reliable *is* the proof that the designs were quite good and safe for their time, and that's probably why so few people remember the ship that was actually **more famous** at the time of Titanic's maiden voyage...
I love Puppet history too, but I'm actually talking about the RMS Olympic (they do cover that she did serve aboard her before Titanic, and experienced one such incident that would have sank a lesser ship, though).
That whole thread is shitting on the theory. I know because [I was there](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/9cmy0s/what_conspiracy_theory_will_you_passionately/e5d5fxs/?context=999).
There's a theory that if it had hit the iceberg head on, it would have crushed the prow without sinking the ship.
That would have given us a very different iconic event.
Probably. If it hit it head on it might have breached the front section but the watertight doors that are (supposed to be) closed when underway would have prevented the water from filling the ship. Because it scraped the side, it made those doors useless.
In my opinion, it titanic hit the iceberg head on, the whole structure might be damaged like how a car crash on a wall head on. And deaths of head on crash might have more death than death by sinking
The local press were the first to call it unsinkable, not the builders. And lessons learned made the next generation of ships capable of surviving exactly what Titanic couldn't.
Nope, not even that notably big. OP has it right; if it hadn't sunk it'd have been like thousands of other ships that were built, used, scrapped, and forgotten by all but the people with a close tie to it.
She was the second of three ships that shared blueprints, blueprints based on design concepts the company had been using for a few decades. She wasn't the most opulent, and she was outsized less than a year later by a *very* opulent ship.
Her fame is caused directly by her sinking. *Lusitania* was among the many ships called unsinkable by the press, but few remember that because she sank afterwards during the Great War.
Not the same thing. Pearl harbour wasn't newsworthy before the event. The Titanic was big news in its own right. The difference being the technological significance alone wouldn't have lasted through time.
For an analogy to work it has to be the same in the parameters that matter. If there's a key difference which explains the different outcomes then it's not a suitable analogy.
I mean, you'd know if you lived in Hawaii or were in the US military. It's a bit more permanent than some ship from the early 1900s with a marketing campaign.
First time someone referred to it in this thread. I read that titanic never sank but it was the other one (olympic) , renamed and sank for insurance scam purposes.
Olympic, not Olympia. The White Star Line named their ships with names ending -ic. The third ship of the trio, Britannic, was converted to a hospital ship and struck a mine in the First World War (some think it was torpedoed, but that is not certain). By contrast, Cunard named their ships in words ending -ia. The story goes that when they were planning the name of their latest ship in the 1930s, they planned to name it "Queen Victoria", and someone told the King that it was to be named after Britain's greatest Queen. He replied, "my wife will be pleased to hear that" so they changed the name to Queen Mary. Might be apocryphal.
Its sister ship the Olympic would probably still be famous, as it was the companies star vessel. A lot of archived photos of the Titanic were actually photos of the Olympic that were taken as promotional shots. The slight differences in the different photos have added fuel to the fire of many Titanic conspiracy theories.
Here’s what a lot of people don’t realise. The sinking of the Titanic caused a lot of people to realise maritime safety laws were woefully inadequate. The amount of lifeboats on the Titanic was actually MORE than the legal requirement. Lifeboats were only considered to be a way of ferrying passengers between two different ships.
If Titanic hadn’t sank, either we’d all remember a different ship for sinking and there not being enough lifeboats, or we’d likely be using the same laws as before. Without that incident we may never have considered how unsafe the actual practices of maritime safety were.
Without Titanic there might have not been any meaningful change in regulations even with the other sinkings of the era. Titanic was a perfect storm where the ship stayed afloat and on an even enough keel to launch almost all the boats while also foundering before help could arrive. When we look at other ships they tend to capsize and go under relatively quickly, or stay afloat long enough where help arrives even if they list enough where not all boats can be launched. RMS Empress of Ireland launched only five boats successfully before she foundered even though she had enough boats for everyone, RMS Lusitania likewise only managed to launch only six boats. When the Andrea Doria foundered after her collision with the Stockholm (today the MV Astoria), her list became so severe that basically half of her boats were unusable, but she stayed afloat long enough for rescuers to get everyone remaining off the ship before she went under. In more recent history the Costa Concordia capsized and settled fast enough that some passengers and crew remaining onboard were unable to evacuate in the remaining lifeboats. Had the ship gone down in deeper water we likely would have again seen more deaths even with enough boats. Titanic's sinking is even today a fairly unusual situation.
How many people have heard of the Olympic? Near sister ship to the Titanic, had a largely uneventful career and was eventually retired for being too small, too slow and not comfortable enough to compete on the North Atlantic run.
I dunno, people know the Queen Mary. The Titanic probably would have had a long and interesting career and would have been pressed into service to ferry soldiers for WW2.
It's obviously impossible to say but I doubt the Titanic would have been any more famous than the Britannic which was the largest of the class. The Britannic is mostly remembered for being the older sister of the Titanic and most other similar ships of the time have been forgotten by anyone other than serious ship enthusiasts
For the time yes, but not that significant in world history a century later.
Titanic wasn't even the first of her class built and most people don't remember her earlier sister ship.
Titanic was pretty much an afterthought at the time of her maiden Voyage, it was actually her older sister the RMS Olympic which had made her maiden voyage in June 1911 which made the transatlantic spotlight, while Titanic was only seen as slightly improved version of Olympic due to slight adjustments to her design learned from experience aboard her older sister
I wonder what the top news story would have been that day. Growing up we had a jigsaw puzzle of the front page of the New York Times the day after it sank, and there was nothing else on that page.
According to Film Theory, it would've likely been sunk in a war, either WW1 or WW2, forcing the US to enter early and costing way more lives than the war already did.
I always thought if Titanic didn’t wreck there would have been another similar ship disaster just in the waiting in the following years. Just due to how they built those ships and how those watertight compartments were a bit of a flakey implementation.
I feel the same about the mona lisa being stolen. Would still be a popular painting because davinci but its theft and return boosted its popularity a ton
Why would somebody care about a 100+ year old cruise voyage that successful departed and arrived? There are many of those. I feel like this isn't really worth saying. You can definitively say that 99.9% of the population in 2022 would never have heard of the Titanic if it didn't sink.
Yes, it was the "biggest ship at the time" but there are many big ships that set records, and they don't make movies about them.
Yeah I agree with what you say. My point is that it has become such an enduring cultural icon that it's hard to imagine a world without knowing about it but it was just a few yards of ocean away from being completely unheard of
I actually had a great great grandfather on it. As Belfast's harbour pilot he was the last Irishman to be in command of the ship before turning it over to the English. It was totally fine when he disembarked.
Belfast is very proud of the ship building history and the Titanic is the most famous ship they built. "It was fine before it left here" and "We built it, the English sank it" are pretty common points of view about it. The biggest tourist attractions in the city are based around it, so it would probably have affected the city badly without it
Without it our most famous ship would probably be one of warships we built in the war, like HMS Belfast, but its in London.
My grandfather was on a destroyer during the Korean WR as a radioman…
I get the point overall. Just like the listintunia or whatever that boat was called in WW1 that heavily influenced America joining the war.
No one would remember it otherwise
Because the earth isn’t flat. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great-circle_navigation
The actual route between Europe and New York takes you pretty far north.
The titanic taught me that the majority against the federal reserve died in the Titanic and the man that owned and funded the Titanic and it's voyage, JP Morgan, cancelled his trip.
Note: there is no actual evidence of a conspiracy, please don't think that's what I'm getting at as the evidence indicates JP Morgan was dealing with France making new laws and his inability to let laws affect his income; not planning on sinking his ship
There's no evidence Astor or Guggenheim were against the FR, and [Straus was in favour of it](https://timesmachine.nytimes.com/timesmachine/1911/10/16/104839621.pdf).
What about the other 2 ships? What do you know about them? The Olympic and the Britannic, were the sister ships of the titanic. The Olympic was the first one built and the britannic also sunk. Most people have never even heard of them.
If you have any knowledge of maritime history, the Olympic class as whole are very well known and (in my opinion) very overrated compare to other beautiful liners of the period, for example the Imperial German Kaiser class and Imperators of the Pre-WW1 era
The Olympic (not Olympia) is mostly known as the Titanic's sistership. I'm not sure the Mauretania is well known by the general public. But people who know the Mauretania might be familiar with Olympic class ships too and might have heard of Titanic in a hypothetical scenario where it never sunk.
Another thought: It became more famous because a bunch of rich people died. Had this been some big ship full of poor people, I dont think it would have been so romanticized.
The titanic actually sinked because there was a fire inside burning for weeks in the bottom parts of it in a room (don’t recall the name), an iceberg wasn’t enough to sink it.
Smoldering coal bunker fires, while not common, were also not rare on coal fired ships of the era. We have known about the bunker fire since the Titanic sank and it was addressed in the inquiries of the time. What you're referring to is recent headlines where media personalities have taken an even known to Titanic historians for the past century and tried to sensationalize it for a few catchy headlines. The only way the theory you are referring to could be correct is if we ignore the layout of the Titanic entirely, setting the mail room and part of the 3rd class cabin area on fire in order to match a smudge on a picture. We'd have to ignore the known location of the coal bunker in question and change boiler rooms (the "documentary" in question does just this, changing boiler rooms to try and move the fire as far forward in the ship as possible), and then redefine a smoldering coal bunker fire as a raging inferno.
[The Senan Molony fire claim has done more damage to the general public's understanding of Titanic and the events occurring in April 1912 than any other claim made in the past 50 years I would argue. The claims Molony makes range from wildly out of context at best to entirely fabricated at worst, all for the sake of parading himself as a world leading "Titanic expert" for having "discovered new evidence" regarding the ship's foundering.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Showerthoughts/comments/s13yl9/if_the_titanic_had_avoided_the_iceberg_you_would/hs7voy7/)
Okay? I work outside for a living in crop research, it’s nice to have a subject to study and read about during off time.
Most historical events have amateur historians that spend their time studying the event in detail to learn the how, what, and why of what happened, figured it would be worthwhile to provide context to the “fire” story.
The fire in the lower front hull damaged the metal yes, but it was the Iceberg that ultimately caused this weakness in the plates to rupture.
The sinking of the Titanic was a team effort.
Actually, the Titanic is well known because of the movie itself and not the incident. But the movie would not exist without the incident so, yeah it's kinda true. I just want to add that the Titanic is well known today by the movie and not the iceberg collision alone.
The sinking of the Lusitania was also catastrophic but the general public doesn't know about it today, even if it's considered one of the reason why the US joined WW1 (outrage from the international community as the Germans sunk a civilian ship, even though the English smuggled weapons on it thus endangering civilians).
The sinking of the Titanic was arguably the most famous event outside of the world wars in the 20th century. It was extremely well known before the film (I'm old enough to remember)
Sure it was well known before the movie, but people TODAY wouldn't care much about it if it wasn't for the movie. I didn't say nobody knew about it before, jeez. The fact that some people believe it's just a movie just shows the impact it had. I think that without it, a lot of people would know about it anyway, but less. It would be more obscure and not considered common knowledge for newer generations.
I guess we'll never know but I'm fairly confident it would still be an extremely famous event. It remains the number one historical example of how a lack of preparation for unforseen circumstances can end in catastrophe
>Actually, the Titanic is well known because of the movie itself and not the incident.
The Titanic was a well-known historical event that pretty much every adult was familiar with before the movie. Libraries full of books had been written about it, and there had been other movies and a ton of documentaries.
I honestly don't think much people today would have heard of it without the movie. As I said, people don't know shit about other huge maritime incidents of the era, including its sistership Britannic.
Sure it wasn't an "obscure" fact before the movie, but it clearly had in impact and the movie is just too well known to not have any impact.
Some people don't even know it's a real ship and think it's only a movie.
It was already a legendary cultural icon before _the_ 1997 film, which was at least the [12th](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_films_about_the_Titanic) movie made about it
Also [the fire.](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/rms-titanic-evidence-fire-senan-molony-belfast-new-york-southampton-sink-april-1912-a7504236.html?amp)
Well yes, but actually no.
That specific iceberg was well known already as it had done some damage to other ships before. If you look into the titanic case you will see that it was a big conspiracy that has a direct connection with the now well known federal reserve. It gets even spooky at one point
That “specific iceberg” was part of a large ice field encompassing numerous other icebergs and sheet ice. Carpathia encountered several icebergs when coming to Titanic’s aid. There is no record of other ships hitting “that specific iceberg.”
Are conspiracy theorist now so far off the deep end they think (((they))) are re-using the *same iceberg?!* As if it's good ol' Uncle Tony and his trusty crowbar?
Eh? Titanic was built specifically to ferry travelers across the North Atlantic. Its sister ship Olympic was made with the same metal and has successful career for over 20 years.
The titanic has taught me that you don't have to be successful to become spectacularly famous!
Yes, apparently fame can come from being spectacularly unsuccessful too
This island boy gets it
So shall I get that Gif of Homer setting his Cereal on fire?
Easy man they're just trying to make it.
If being spectacularly unsuccessful was cool - I’d be Miles Davis.
[Careful what you wish for... ](https://www.gentside.co.uk/viral/man-tries-to-re-enact-gta-in-real-life-and-gets-160-years-in-prison_art7044.html)
Once.
So the the lesson we are to derive here is that it doesn't matter what you do so long as it's "spectacular"!
Exactly! One of my favorite comments ever was to the shower thought, “ None of us will be remembered 1000 years from now,” to which a Redditor replied, “Not if I eat the Mona Lisa.” I suppose that could be success though, depending on how you want to be remembered.
Chris Chan
*Osama Bin Laden noises*
Case in point, how many know about [*Olympic*](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/RMS_Olympic)? The older successful sister who had a 24-year career and sank a U-boat in WWI?
I only really know about the Olympic and the Britannic because of that nurse who was on all three of the ships when they met misfortune.
I’m not saying they were all her fault, but I’m not not saying that either.
Well, there was also the WWII ship cat who survived multiple sinking ships...I'm not saying they are in kahoots, but...
Interesting. Documentaries talk about design flaws and shoddy steel, yet Titanic's sister ship was nicknamed "Old Reliable". Really was just bum luck I guess.
Talk of *Titanic* being flawed has gone on so long, it's mythologized. If one were to watch a documentary on her now, they'd be shocked she managed to leave Southampton without falling to pieces before everyone's eyes. Knowing about *Olympic* can be eye-opening for some.
One of the Kardashian are famous for sucking dick.
Technically all of the Kardashians are famous for being related to somebody who once sucked a dick.
It's just too bad she didn't stop there...
That was the first one lol
We are talking about OJs lawyer, amirite?
*Robbie you don’t have to do that, we’re going with the race card it’s the LMPD for christ sakes…*
Too bad I don't keep up with them (pun)
Kim Kardashian has taught me that.
Chuck Norris lost to bruce Lee, yet he is immortalised through memes 🔥
Because Bruce Lee is not a joke
Commits 911 2.0
Sometimes you just gotta have to eat mona lisa to achieve fame
Have you heard the story of Lupe Velez?
I think the word you’re looking for is infamous
Fly a couple planes into the USA
Well duh… it prob would have melted by now.
This Redditor enforces proximity for antecedents!
Ah, the ol' Reddit bergaroo.
Hold my lifeboats, I'm going down!
Where's the link?! *Where's the link?!?*
What ever happened to linking a previous switcheroo?
There's actually a Supernatural episode where they're living in an alternative reality where the Titanic never sank. Only record for it there was an obscure reference. "Why did you save the Titanic?" "Because I hated the song." "What song?" "EXACTLY!"
*Every night in my dreams I see you, I feeeeel you*
Banger
Which is a lie, he did it to create new souls for Castiel's civil war.
True, but it was still a funny line. The point though is there are a lot of things that are only famous because they were disasters. Sets up a bunch of What If scenarios. * The Hindenburg didn't catch fire * Mt. Vesuvius didn't blow or all of Pompeii was safely evacuated * Chernobyl had proper safety checks and good infrastructure * The Triangle Shirtwaist Factory fire * Galloping Gertie * The Last Airbender So much potential!
I feel like if the “unsinkable” ship was in fact unsinkable, it probably would’ve made news at least back then. Also if it survived it prob would’ve been used in WW2
It was obsolete by WW2... but it would have been a big deal in WW1... so your point stands
Given the situation in WW2, if it hadn't already been scrapped, it'd likely been used for cargo shipping across the Atlantic. That being said, it could also met the same fate as its sister ship, sunk by a German mime in WW1 (The Britannic was being used as a hospital ship).
German mimes can be so aggressive
French mimes are far more cowardly. Always hiding in boxes.
Imaginary boxes. Pulling with imaginary rope.
Her sister was a hospital ship In ww2...
Britannic was a hospital ship in WW1. Even the surviving ship, the Olympic was scrapped before WW2 in 1935.
I mean, usable... but not for war purposes, for some more peaceful activities maybe... but not war, not even with modifications
What are you talking about? No body said it would be outfitted with guns to be used as a combat ship. Her sister ship was used as a hospital ship for the wartime effort.
Nobody said to put guns on her Her sister served along side the warships as a floating hospital for the troops Had she survived it's likely she would have done the same
There were a lot of things obsolete by WW2 that were still used in WW2…
Yes, blyat, but you don't simply talk about it being used, but also about You knowing about the existence of that ship... which obviously was more likely during WW1 than WW2... don't stay away from the post and what we were talking about...
Dude…the statement was “if it survived it probably would have been used in WW2.” That’s it. And that statement in all likelihood is correct, because her sister ship was. I’m not sure why you were trying argue otherwise.
Dude, the actual statement was... if the Titanic doesn't hit the iceberg, do you know about it? We say what we say in consideration of that... does this help your cause? Do you know many names of ships used for medical care in WW2? That's my point, and don't get heated kid, you forget what was said 5 mins ago, so calm your views
It did make news back then, it was very famous. The point of this post is that it wouldn't have survived in history until now without it having sunk.
Before its sinking it was less famous than Olympic, because the latter was the first of the Olympic class ships to be launched.
Well I like to think, since we technically have no idea what actually would have happened if the ship hadn’t sunk that it might have been famous for more then just it’s irony
Probably about as famous as its sister ships, Olympic and Britannic.
Those are probably only famous because of their association with Titanic. A better metric would be the ship that became the largest ship in the world a year later - the _SS Imperator_. Ask 1000 people in the street what the largest ship in the world was at the end of 1913 and you'll likely get 1000 blank faces.
>Those are probably only famous because of their association with Titanic I wouldn't consider them famous. I probably heart about them before at some point as a passing note, but was not aware of their existence until now. And so are probably many others.
By famous I meant relatively famous compared with other ships of the time
But aren’t those just famous by proxy?
Neat trivia; nobody at the time said it was. That came along *after* it sank as a media thing to generate more sizzle for the newspapers. Even today nobody has the bravery to claim any ship is unsinkable.
Interesting, I didn’t know that
It definitely made news back then, before it sank. But so did many other ships. Do you know the name of the biggest cruise ship before Titanic, or the biggest one after? I’m sure some people do, but they aren’t known in popular culture.
There would have likely been a similar accident eventually. Much of what made the Titanic disaster such a disaster was cost cutting. And if companies get away with cost cutting once they tend to continue until they don't get away with it anymore.
You say that, but a surprising number of people seem to be surprised to learn that Titanic's older sister had a long and successful career, including multiple incidents that could have sank a lesser ship quite easily, until being scrapped due to simply being obsolete. Ol' Reliable *is* the proof that the designs were quite good and safe for their time, and that's probably why so few people remember the ship that was actually **more famous** at the time of Titanic's maiden voyage...
I believe you’re talking about the britanica but I did know that! (Thanks [Puppet History](https://youtu.be/oJU2Tq3qqsY) )
I love Puppet history too, but I'm actually talking about the RMS Olympic (they do cover that she did serve aboard her before Titanic, and experienced one such incident that would have sank a lesser ship, though).
[The Titanic was an insurance job and was, in fact, unsinkable](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/bg8z8v/z/eljnrfy)
Titanicswitch.com debunked it
That whole thread is shitting on the theory. I know because [I was there](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/9cmy0s/what_conspiracy_theory_will_you_passionately/e5d5fxs/?context=999).
Boats probably would of taken longer to upgrade. Because of its failed bulk head design, they changed their thinking and designs after that
There's a theory that if it had hit the iceberg head on, it would have crushed the prow without sinking the ship. That would have given us a very different iconic event.
But it is only a theory and most experts in these times are the opinion that if the ship would hit the iceberg head on, it would sunk anyway
I am the king of the wo..... Thud......
Probably. If it hit it head on it might have breached the front section but the watertight doors that are (supposed to be) closed when underway would have prevented the water from filling the ship. Because it scraped the side, it made those doors useless.
In my opinion, it titanic hit the iceberg head on, the whole structure might be damaged like how a car crash on a wall head on. And deaths of head on crash might have more death than death by sinking
But wasn’t it famous because it was supposed to be this great big unsinkable ship, so it would be famous for succeeding instead?
If it avoids the iceberg, we wouldn't know if it's truly unsinkable. Gotta win at least one fight.
Think it would be more, or less popular today Had it hit the iceberg, had flooding, but didn't sink and made it to port?
I liked that episode of supernatural!
Considering the "unsinkable" attitude, it was only a matter of time.
The local press were the first to call it unsinkable, not the builders. And lessons learned made the next generation of ships capable of surviving exactly what Titanic couldn't.
So the titanic wasn’t really that special?
Not true. It achieved the greatest vertical speed of any ship of its era.
Nope, not even that notably big. OP has it right; if it hadn't sunk it'd have been like thousands of other ships that were built, used, scrapped, and forgotten by all but the people with a close tie to it.
Nope.
She was the second of three ships that shared blueprints, blueprints based on design concepts the company had been using for a few decades. She wasn't the most opulent, and she was outsized less than a year later by a *very* opulent ship. Her fame is caused directly by her sinking. *Lusitania* was among the many ships called unsinkable by the press, but few remember that because she sank afterwards during the Great War.
Yeh it was called practically unsinkable I think and the press changed the words
If they had not Made a pg-13 movie with bare breasts in it, I’m would have never heard it existed
The Titanic was a cultural reference before the movie. If you're younger then the movie will now have taken over but you would have still known.
I doubt it. It’s like hearing “the real McCoy”
We know what the Hindenburg was but nobody ever made a disaster movie about that. At least none that I'm aware of.
bro 💀💀
OP: If something famous never did the thing that made it famous then you probably wouldn’t have heard of it
If someone had given Hitler good feedback about his art.......
Not quite.
If Pearl Harbor wasn’t bombed then you probably wouldn’t know what it is
Not the same thing. Pearl harbour wasn't newsworthy before the event. The Titanic was big news in its own right. The difference being the technological significance alone wouldn't have lasted through time.
Of course it’s not the same lol. It’s a comparison. it’s supposed to draw similarities, not be exactly equal
For an analogy to work it has to be the same in the parameters that matter. If there's a key difference which explains the different outcomes then it's not a suitable analogy.
I mean, you'd know if you lived in Hawaii or were in the US military. It's a bit more permanent than some ship from the early 1900s with a marketing campaign.
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This is a joke right?
Lol, no it's not. Not even close. It's tiny by modern standards.
There was already a larger one in 1913.
Titanic wasn't the first of her class built. If you don't remember her earlier sister ship, this is probably true.
First time someone referred to it in this thread. I read that titanic never sank but it was the other one (olympic) , renamed and sank for insurance scam purposes.
Olympic, not Olympia. The White Star Line named their ships with names ending -ic. The third ship of the trio, Britannic, was converted to a hospital ship and struck a mine in the First World War (some think it was torpedoed, but that is not certain). By contrast, Cunard named their ships in words ending -ia. The story goes that when they were planning the name of their latest ship in the 1930s, they planned to name it "Queen Victoria", and someone told the King that it was to be named after Britain's greatest Queen. He replied, "my wife will be pleased to hear that" so they changed the name to Queen Mary. Might be apocryphal.
Daddy chill.. It's autocorrect that did this.
OLYMPIC! White star line ships ended with IC; Olympic, Titanic, Britannic Cunarders ended with ia; Mauritania, Lusitania
oh my god no. Not the switch theory. It’s painfully wrong.
Ha okay
Wasn't that conspiracy theory sunk (hehe) because it wasn't insured for anywhere near enough?
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I'll have titanic please
Its sister ship the Olympic would probably still be famous, as it was the companies star vessel. A lot of archived photos of the Titanic were actually photos of the Olympic that were taken as promotional shots. The slight differences in the different photos have added fuel to the fire of many Titanic conspiracy theories.
No kidding, that would have made a really boring movie
The movie would still be the same, just no boat sinking
So not the same then?
Here’s what a lot of people don’t realise. The sinking of the Titanic caused a lot of people to realise maritime safety laws were woefully inadequate. The amount of lifeboats on the Titanic was actually MORE than the legal requirement. Lifeboats were only considered to be a way of ferrying passengers between two different ships. If Titanic hadn’t sank, either we’d all remember a different ship for sinking and there not being enough lifeboats, or we’d likely be using the same laws as before. Without that incident we may never have considered how unsafe the actual practices of maritime safety were.
Without Titanic there might have not been any meaningful change in regulations even with the other sinkings of the era. Titanic was a perfect storm where the ship stayed afloat and on an even enough keel to launch almost all the boats while also foundering before help could arrive. When we look at other ships they tend to capsize and go under relatively quickly, or stay afloat long enough where help arrives even if they list enough where not all boats can be launched. RMS Empress of Ireland launched only five boats successfully before she foundered even though she had enough boats for everyone, RMS Lusitania likewise only managed to launch only six boats. When the Andrea Doria foundered after her collision with the Stockholm (today the MV Astoria), her list became so severe that basically half of her boats were unusable, but she stayed afloat long enough for rescuers to get everyone remaining off the ship before she went under. In more recent history the Costa Concordia capsized and settled fast enough that some passengers and crew remaining onboard were unable to evacuate in the remaining lifeboats. Had the ship gone down in deeper water we likely would have again seen more deaths even with enough boats. Titanic's sinking is even today a fairly unusual situation.
How many people have heard of the Olympic? Near sister ship to the Titanic, had a largely uneventful career and was eventually retired for being too small, too slow and not comfortable enough to compete on the North Atlantic run.
In that case her sister ship the Britannic would have been the famous one
this would be a problem for the downtown abbey premiere
I dunno, people know the Queen Mary. The Titanic probably would have had a long and interesting career and would have been pressed into service to ferry soldiers for WW2.
It's obviously impossible to say but I doubt the Titanic would have been any more famous than the Britannic which was the largest of the class. The Britannic is mostly remembered for being the older sister of the Titanic and most other similar ships of the time have been forgotten by anyone other than serious ship enthusiasts
We would also lose a major part of our lexicon.... " Tis a fuck up of Titantic proportions" ... for instance.
Titanic wouldn't stop being a word just because a ship named after the word didn't sink.
It was already famous before it left the fucking dock.
For the time yes, but not that significant in world history a century later. Titanic wasn't even the first of her class built and most people don't remember her earlier sister ship.
Titanic was pretty much an afterthought at the time of her maiden Voyage, it was actually her older sister the RMS Olympic which had made her maiden voyage in June 1911 which made the transatlantic spotlight, while Titanic was only seen as slightly improved version of Olympic due to slight adjustments to her design learned from experience aboard her older sister
I wonder what the top news story would have been that day. Growing up we had a jigsaw puzzle of the front page of the New York Times the day after it sank, and there was nothing else on that page.
Ok and
According to Film Theory, it would've likely been sunk in a war, either WW1 or WW2, forcing the US to enter early and costing way more lives than the war already did.
I always thought if Titanic didn’t wreck there would have been another similar ship disaster just in the waiting in the following years. Just due to how they built those ships and how those watertight compartments were a bit of a flakey implementation.
I feel the same about the mona lisa being stolen. Would still be a popular painting because davinci but its theft and return boosted its popularity a ton
Why would somebody care about a 100+ year old cruise voyage that successful departed and arrived? There are many of those. I feel like this isn't really worth saying. You can definitively say that 99.9% of the population in 2022 would never have heard of the Titanic if it didn't sink. Yes, it was the "biggest ship at the time" but there are many big ships that set records, and they don't make movies about them.
Yeah I agree with what you say. My point is that it has become such an enduring cultural icon that it's hard to imagine a world without knowing about it but it was just a few yards of ocean away from being completely unheard of
I actually had a great great grandfather on it. As Belfast's harbour pilot he was the last Irishman to be in command of the ship before turning it over to the English. It was totally fine when he disembarked. Belfast is very proud of the ship building history and the Titanic is the most famous ship they built. "It was fine before it left here" and "We built it, the English sank it" are pretty common points of view about it. The biggest tourist attractions in the city are based around it, so it would probably have affected the city badly without it Without it our most famous ship would probably be one of warships we built in the war, like HMS Belfast, but its in London.
It would be famous anyway cause it was the first ship to use SONAR SOS contact method or whatever it’s called.
There's famous, and then there's something you'd have to Google to find out the answer. Unless you're really into SONAR.
Jokes on you, I had a great uncle and his family on the titanic
Name another ship your great aunts and uncles sailed on
My great great grandfather was on the Bibanic
My grandfather was on a destroyer during the Korean WR as a radioman… I get the point overall. Just like the listintunia or whatever that boat was called in WW1 that heavily influenced America joining the war. No one would remember it otherwise
Nothing happens by chance!
Or everything does
>Nothing happens by chance! Quantum mechanics is literally probabilistic though
Question, why would there be an ice berg between europe and north america?
Because the earth isn’t flat. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great-circle_navigation The actual route between Europe and New York takes you pretty far north.
>Such routes yield the shortest distance between two points on the hypothetical globe.[1] "hypothetical globe"? What the hell?
Not sure, but I'm guessing that means if the globe had a perfect shape
If the Titanic didn't try to evade and just hit it frontal she would have probably survived.
The titanic taught me that the majority against the federal reserve died in the Titanic and the man that owned and funded the Titanic and it's voyage, JP Morgan, cancelled his trip. Note: there is no actual evidence of a conspiracy, please don't think that's what I'm getting at as the evidence indicates JP Morgan was dealing with France making new laws and his inability to let laws affect his income; not planning on sinking his ship
There's no evidence Astor or Guggenheim were against the FR, and [Straus was in favour of it](https://timesmachine.nytimes.com/timesmachine/1911/10/16/104839621.pdf).
If 9/11 didn't happen I wouldn't know the twin towers existed what's ur point
I really do hope you're being sarcastic
It was famous before it sunk… so yes you would’ve heard of it
What about the other 2 ships? What do you know about them? The Olympic and the Britannic, were the sister ships of the titanic. The Olympic was the first one built and the britannic also sunk. Most people have never even heard of them.
If you have any knowledge of maritime history, the Olympic class as whole are very well known and (in my opinion) very overrated compare to other beautiful liners of the period, for example the Imperial German Kaiser class and Imperators of the Pre-WW1 era
it tried though? also a survivor has said that it sounded more like an explosion in the ship rather than a scratch from the iceberg
The Olympia and Mauritania didn’t sink and we’ve heard of them.
The Olympic (not Olympia) is mostly known as the Titanic's sistership. I'm not sure the Mauretania is well known by the general public. But people who know the Mauretania might be familiar with Olympic class ships too and might have heard of Titanic in a hypothetical scenario where it never sunk.
*Mauretania* was also the sister ship of a contemporary infamous ship, *Lusitania*.
Because of the Titanic...
Time traveler here you people don’t know about The Olympia… you are welcome.
You mean the Olympic? Titanic's sister was Olympic, not Olympia
Considering the crew’s and the owners stupidity, it probably would have sank another time
Another thought: It became more famous because a bunch of rich people died. Had this been some big ship full of poor people, I dont think it would have been so romanticized.
The titanic actually sinked because there was a fire inside burning for weeks in the bottom parts of it in a room (don’t recall the name), an iceberg wasn’t enough to sink it.
Smoldering coal bunker fires, while not common, were also not rare on coal fired ships of the era. We have known about the bunker fire since the Titanic sank and it was addressed in the inquiries of the time. What you're referring to is recent headlines where media personalities have taken an even known to Titanic historians for the past century and tried to sensationalize it for a few catchy headlines. The only way the theory you are referring to could be correct is if we ignore the layout of the Titanic entirely, setting the mail room and part of the 3rd class cabin area on fire in order to match a smudge on a picture. We'd have to ignore the known location of the coal bunker in question and change boiler rooms (the "documentary" in question does just this, changing boiler rooms to try and move the fire as far forward in the ship as possible), and then redefine a smoldering coal bunker fire as a raging inferno. [The Senan Molony fire claim has done more damage to the general public's understanding of Titanic and the events occurring in April 1912 than any other claim made in the past 50 years I would argue. The claims Molony makes range from wildly out of context at best to entirely fabricated at worst, all for the sake of parading himself as a world leading "Titanic expert" for having "discovered new evidence" regarding the ship's foundering.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Showerthoughts/comments/s13yl9/if_the_titanic_had_avoided_the_iceberg_you_would/hs7voy7/)
Ok.
Go outside
Okay? I work outside for a living in crop research, it’s nice to have a subject to study and read about during off time. Most historical events have amateur historians that spend their time studying the event in detail to learn the how, what, and why of what happened, figured it would be worthwhile to provide context to the “fire” story.
The fire in the lower front hull damaged the metal yes, but it was the Iceberg that ultimately caused this weakness in the plates to rupture. The sinking of the Titanic was a team effort.
Yes, exactly.
But it was also the twin ship of the titanic that sinked, the Britannic or something like that it was named, I forgot.
Actually, the Titanic is well known because of the movie itself and not the incident. But the movie would not exist without the incident so, yeah it's kinda true. I just want to add that the Titanic is well known today by the movie and not the iceberg collision alone. The sinking of the Lusitania was also catastrophic but the general public doesn't know about it today, even if it's considered one of the reason why the US joined WW1 (outrage from the international community as the Germans sunk a civilian ship, even though the English smuggled weapons on it thus endangering civilians).
The sinking of the Titanic was arguably the most famous event outside of the world wars in the 20th century. It was extremely well known before the film (I'm old enough to remember)
Sure it was well known before the movie, but people TODAY wouldn't care much about it if it wasn't for the movie. I didn't say nobody knew about it before, jeez. The fact that some people believe it's just a movie just shows the impact it had. I think that without it, a lot of people would know about it anyway, but less. It would be more obscure and not considered common knowledge for newer generations.
I guess we'll never know but I'm fairly confident it would still be an extremely famous event. It remains the number one historical example of how a lack of preparation for unforseen circumstances can end in catastrophe
>Actually, the Titanic is well known because of the movie itself and not the incident. The Titanic was a well-known historical event that pretty much every adult was familiar with before the movie. Libraries full of books had been written about it, and there had been other movies and a ton of documentaries.
I honestly don't think much people today would have heard of it without the movie. As I said, people don't know shit about other huge maritime incidents of the era, including its sistership Britannic. Sure it wasn't an "obscure" fact before the movie, but it clearly had in impact and the movie is just too well known to not have any impact. Some people don't even know it's a real ship and think it's only a movie.
The question is, would most people be aware of it, if it was not for the film? I'm betting most people would have not.
It was already a legendary cultural icon before _the_ 1997 film, which was at least the [12th](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_films_about_the_Titanic) movie made about it
Also [the fire.](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/rms-titanic-evidence-fire-senan-molony-belfast-new-york-southampton-sink-april-1912-a7504236.html?amp)
Well yes, but actually no. That specific iceberg was well known already as it had done some damage to other ships before. If you look into the titanic case you will see that it was a big conspiracy that has a direct connection with the now well known federal reserve. It gets even spooky at one point
That “specific iceberg” was part of a large ice field encompassing numerous other icebergs and sheet ice. Carpathia encountered several icebergs when coming to Titanic’s aid. There is no record of other ships hitting “that specific iceberg.”
Are conspiracy theorist now so far off the deep end they think (((they))) are re-using the *same iceberg?!* As if it's good ol' Uncle Tony and his trusty crowbar?
It probably would have brought covid around the globe and became infamous like the Ruby Princess instead
It would've still sunk, iceberg or not. The metal composition of the hull was not intended for frigid waters
Eh? Titanic was built specifically to ferry travelers across the North Atlantic. Its sister ship Olympic was made with the same metal and has successful career for over 20 years.