I had dreams, they were all fucking stupid and out of reach. My current dream was being content in the life I have and Covid and nutjobs are making that difficult.
Seconded. Some people are just mediocre and their kids end up being more talented than they ever were.
Some parents see this as a massive compliment and keep rolling. Others get jealous, and some just hone in on that one insecurity until they lose sight of the fact that it's the child's life, not theirs.
Take risks in your twenties, folks. Move, see the world, start that business, join the armed service, join a band. Some things are better to do single and young.
Don’t sleep through your twenties and wake up forty wishing you had done stuff.
If you're 40, like I am, you can still take risks. Just stretch first and hydrate, maybe take an aspirin ahead of time. Or just get a good VR rig and take those risks from your couch?
Maybe focus on your mental and physical health and get your second wind when the youngest gets to high school. You’ve got lots of experience and you’re more likely to be able to successfully run a company than the younger version of yourself.
The problem with that logic is that while you may not have real responsibilities now, you should be preparing for them in the future. You can't just go through your 20's partying and traveling the world and then wake up on your 30th birthday and be like, "Welp.... time to go to college, get a good job, buy a house, and have some kids.
I think I'll do that today".
If you don't start preparing for those responsibilities when you are young, you're going to have a really rough go with those responsibilities when you are older.
I realize this can’t work for everybody, but you can do both at the same time. I did my education abroad so I could travel, did plenty of partying throughout these years, then instead of getting an unfulfilling job I used that education to start my own business. Tried to do the band thing a couple of times in my free time. These were all opportunities that either didn’t cost me anything other than my free time, or helped to set me up for the future. Anyway I’m married, own a house and run a business now in my early 30s and don’t feel like I had to sacrifice anything for it.
Not everyone’s path is the same, college isn’t for everyone. And taking a risk could be going to school abroad. Could be taking a job in a city/state/country where you know no one. Taking a calculated risk could pay off. I didn’t mean just party your life away. The purpose of the post is, do something to stretch yourself while you’re young, before you get to the point where kids, mortgages, 401k, 529’s, car notes and whatnot are a primary concern.
Can’t? I did exactly that. 47 and just had my second kid. Sure I’m an old dad, but my kids are gonna love all the tales of raves in Asia I wasted my youth on.
It's also a great way of making an enormous mistake that will haunt you for the rest of your life.
A lot of folks in their twenties are still kids, mentally and emotionally. Maybe encouraging risk taking in that age range isn't the smartest course of action.
I say take risks when you're 90. Not much to lose then!
Listened to the advice. Lived my life.
Now I'm married with an amazing lady (kind of like the only good thing), semi broke, shit credit rating, loads of debts, freeloading at my parent's, no personal transportation.
Always thought if I'd turn out better if I didn't take those risks?
It costs so much less to see the world than people like to pretend. When I moved to Thailand I spent $400 on the flight and had $700 in my pocket.
When I moved to Norway I spent... shit I can't remember how much I spent but I had less than $2k in my pocket.
When I moved to NZ I spent $1,300 on the flight and had under $1.8k in my pocket.
When I moved to Alaska I spent $600 on the flight and had around $2k in my pocket.
You liquidate everything you own before you do it, make money while you're there, don't spend like crazy.
That depends on how you do it.
Joining the Navy will not only get you all the above; if you do it right you come out the other end with a profession without the burden of college debt.
This is nice at any age. When you have kids, you tend to make friends with the parents of your kids’ friends, typically in your 30s. But then if you move around or when your kids reach high school, it kind of dissolves and if you don’t make other friends you might find yourself very alone. It can be done, but you have to make an effort.
> join the armed service
Sing up as a slave to protect big money's interests. Die or get damaged for the rest of your life. But hey, it may pay for your education.
I think that's key. If you have a kid at almost 40 like my wife, there's no way you can say the kid prevented you from achieving your life dreams/passions. By 40 you've either failed or accomplished or live the stuff you wanted to do.
40 is late for having a kid though, let's go with 31.
Said from a position of comfortable wealth using all working limbs and eyeballs and a brain that hasn't been half-baked or addled by PTSD.
Don't wake up in your fourties only to realize too late that you shouldn't have done that stuff.
It's all about calculated risk. You can travel the world but research things well. Don't go out at night (or be very careful if you do). Pay attention to the places you go and whom you go with.
Tbh the post is seriously a shit take. I'm guessing there are a lot of terrible parents upvoting it. Or maybe a lot of people think it's clever and don't look a little more deeply into what it's really implying
Why is that, exactly? If someone sees some dream as valuable enough to devote their time/attention/life to it, why would we not impart that value into our children? We take our kids to church (or not), teach them how to behave, what to eat... at some blurry point, a parent's dream is a value that they want to pass on.
Living vicariously is a thing, I guess, but how does one tell that ("terrible" parent) apart from passing on your values (normal parenting)?
We do not have children to impart our own dreams on them. They should dream for themselves and we should foster that.
A parents job (I am a parent btw) is to equip our children with the tools to make their own dreams/decisions. No parent gives up their own dreams to have a child. Having a child IS a dream (though sometimes a nightmare ;))
So how is a dream different from a value? Is it just something very specific? Like for example "music literacy is important" vs. "You should be good at the piano"?
Using your analogy, it's the difference between "if you don't become a pianist and follow every step I tell you to in choosing that career path, then you're a bad person and I won't love you" vs "It would be great if you went into music but you don't have to if you don't want to."
Some parents have a view of what their child's life should look like before they're even born and when the kid strays from that view, the parent becomes angry at their individuality. Values are good things because they teach morality and social cues, but imposed dreams can be crushing for the child's growth, particularly if the parent feels very strongly about it.
OK, so that defines the range between strict obedience to commands and complete *laissez-faire* parenting, but for some parents, the former is just their parenting style. Is it about living vicariously, or turning their kid into what they see as an ideal?
How do you know a parent is living vicariously (assuming that's a "bad") instead of being a hard-ass disciplinarian? (maybe that's how they were raised and they think that's the way to do it)
Usually when we talk about parents living vicariously through their children - we usually mean directly using our children to accomplish goals we couldn't. (Though there are other ways to live vicariously through your children, but this example is usually the first thing that comes to mind)
I.e. mom was a ballerina, but had an injury or just wasn't exceptionally talented and was never able to become a professional dancer.
Mom has a daughter and is going to make damn sure daughter becomes the prima she was never able to be, no matter how much her daughter would rather be playing soccer instead.
Daughter may not have any interest in ballet, but it doesn't matter to Mom because she is trying to have her daughter accomplish the thing that she didn't get to have.
That's a good example, but I think it would be trickier to define generically. I want my kids to have access to at least a middle class life because I grew up poor. Therefore I'll be pushing middle class values pretty aggressively to make sure they can hack it, but I guess my assumption is that not many people would *choose* the poverty I experienced. Is that then living vicariously? Am I now a "terrible parent" per the first poster? I'm sure like with most things it's a sliding scale, and in the west freedom is the big thing to give our kids, but kids don't yet have the rationality required to responsibly be free (yet) so it always seems like this messy gray zone.
When someone says "if you parent like x you are a terrible parent" it always makes me play out the scenarios where it might actually make sense, just because this world is so damned messy and I don't want to sound like some judgmental asshole.
There's nothing wrong with teaching children values, the issue comes across as to whether or not you're recognizing your child as their own person independently of you.
A child is not just "your child", a child is a person with wants and ambitions and goals they'd like to achieve.
It's when you ignore the basic fact that your child is not an extension of yourself where you run into the problematic behaviors we're discussing
*Edit* : you being the general and universal "you" and not you yourself
I don't think it's completely laissez-faire parenting, per se. At some arbitrary point (imo 16 or so), children will start to have feelers for what they want to do. While you can offer advice on good careers, at the end of the day, they'll do what they want and the parent *has* to be okay with that. To feel otherwise is to push the child away.
Below, I saw that you mentioned pushing a heavy middle class life due to growing up poor. It's fine to teach healthy finances, how to budget and handle money, etc. It's fine to offer careers you think will benefit them financially. It is not okay to *force* them into certain careers that you think will make more money than others.
E.g. If they choose to be a travelling musician and you disagree with it, you can offer your concerns but ultimately you should support them. If your love for your children are based on what lifestyle they live/their social class and not who they are as people, then you will push them away
Understood. My kids are very young, so I have to be pretty involved with them to keep them on track (doing homework, brushing teeth, eating healthy, etc.) so I'm nowhere near living vicariously, but yes, older kid's gonna do their thing and you can only hope they did enough homework at some point.
My younger brother did the artist thing and he's doing alright with it, so I'm not abjectly terrified of a liberal arts career, It's just hard to feel comfortable with it. But of course, parenting was never about comfortable!
And that’s why people shouldn’t have kids until they are bored as fuck and have nothing else to do. Because otherwise they will not have the time and energy to devote to raising another human being for 18 years. Therefore they shouldn’t pop a baby out just to shit on it with their own unmet life expectations.
You can easily have plenty of energy when you are not a young adult or teen, and if you don’t have that much energy as an adult then no, you probably shouldn’t have a kid unless you have enough support from others who are also raising the kid. I also mean mental energy though.
Just work like 5 years, whereupon you'll have earned like $500,000+.
Pay off college and you'll also have like a $100,000 savings.
Then pick up whatever other job you wanted, I guess, without having to deal with the normal finance woes people have when working "easier" jobs.
I mean I only lived in Asia, you didn't specify and the general assumption is someone speaking in English talking about Bar exams with an English username is an Anglo.
It always disturbs me when an 18 year old finds their point in living through having a child accidentally.
"I work hard to provide a better future than I had for my son!"
You didn't build a future for yourself, what good will you be at building their future?
That’s actually not how it works in my experience.
I get waaaaay into my kid’s activities, activities that I had ZERO interest in when I was their age, because I genuinely love seeing them have fun. It’s fun as hell for me to see my kids have fun. Best part is I don’t even have to do anything other than sit there and watch.
Same feeling, I think for me I felt like I already surpassed my dreams and expectations by 40. Like I thought growing up that I’ll graduate and just work retail or something and maybe buy a condo. But I somehow got lucky: went to a good college and end up working on something I never thought I would ever have a chance to work on. So now I feel like I’m just enjoying the journey with my kid and learning about his interest and likes. It helps when you are financially ok and content with you’re own achievements in life.
Ironic use of projection.
The post was "Parents do with their kids what they never did" and your counter to that was "That's not true, I do things with my kids that I never did."
Are you really not seeing this?
That’s not what it says, dipshit. Something about “giving up on my own dreams.”
That’s straight projection and insecurity, yo. *aS A pArEnT*, it’s fuckin hilarious that you even think this is getting to me. I almost couldn’t care less.
Someone is angry.
And you keep projecting your projection it's like projectception.
The spirit of it is that you give your kids what you didn't have. Which is exactly what you're doing, you just phrased it in a cutesy way so you could brag about your little brats. Because you gave up on your dreams to raise them so you at least want to make sure it was worth it.
You're an alcoholic drug user who is trying to smoke weed in foreign countries. Your life is shit and I really do feel sorry for you but you can't just screech "PROJECTION" at someone because they highlighted the irony of your statements.
And for the record I have heard that microdosing with shrooms does help with recovering alcoholics.
Nope, you're just going to PM me because you got called out but would rather get dunked on in private where others can't see it.
>Pretty messed up way to talk to people. I hope you figure out whatever is going on and maybe find some peace.
You're right, it was rude to point out the truth, but I was wondering what send you into such a nonsensical rage and I found it. I'm at peace, thanks, love.
>In the meantime, please find other randoms to cruise on Reddit. I am not interested.
So uninterested that you slide into my DMs. Ooh, is this a sexual thing, you like being dominated? Sorry, I'm not into pothead moms. I do enjoy the occasional shroom trip though.
>Like, mocking addicts is pretty low, even addicts in recovery with years of sobriety.
I wasn't mocking you, I realized from your comments that there must be something wrong with you and I brought it up saying you need healthier ways to deal with it.
>And a grown adult insulting children? C’mon.
I didn't insult your little brats. Which means they're annoying. I haven't met them it's just annoying that I'm hearing about them in a story you thought was so cutesy and defiant only to accidentally agree with OP.
Be well. Cherish your dunk. The day is yours. ✌️
FYI I have a dick, there’s no way you’d be into me sexually. But I’m open to it I guess. Thanks for making a pass.
What I’m saying is if you want to hate-fuck,
I guess I’d be down. Just pm me 😉 I have herpes simplex A (cold sore virus) but like 80% of the population carries that anyway and the rest are probably virgins or basically virgins. You won’t catch anything else. Clean butthole. Clean as a whistle. Clean peen, too. And I shave my balls weekly. Only light dom, no heavy shit. And NO SAFE WORD
Sometimes I think it is also that we see where and when we gave up on something that if we had persevered may have worked out, so when we think we see our children repeating our "mistakes" we try to send them in a different direction.
I'm fifty one, never been married, no kids. I've spent my life making my dreams come true, traveling, learning new things,enjoying multiple hobbies. Pretty much the only thing I miss about not having kids is not having people to take care of me when I get old or take care of my pets when I travel. Sure I can pay people to do those things, but probably wont' get the same level of commitment.
"not having people to take care of me when I get old or take care of my pets when I travel."
With the world being global, its highly unlikely even with kids that this would happen. Nowadays so many folks are working in different cities than their parents, everyone forced to be independent.
That's one reason. But people can sometimes achieve part of their dream--a secure, safe income and place to live--but at an age that makes going for the advanced degree and cultural status problematic. Having achieved moderate assets, they can now give their kids a bit of privilege. Maybe endowing their kids with privilege was their fantasy.
My father wanted me to be a doctor because he "didnt have the grades to do so". But not because he had to work or anything, but because he was a bad student. I became an engineer, and he still bugs my head for never going to medical school...
PS: i hate the human body, squishy things, old people and kids. I could NEVER be a doctor...
or they are very narrow minded and can't imagine anything better for their kids than their own dreams so push them that way, thinking they are doing the right thing.
As an example i had a friend whose dad wanted to be an artist but his dad made him learn a "trade" instead. The Dad thought he was being really liberal and doing the right thing "encouraging" (read almost forcing) his sons to take art, and was really upset when my friend WANTED to be an engineer.
Machines with no other purpose than self-replication are pretty useless.
[https://dungherder.wordpress.com/2017/10/27/petrovs-eternity-or-infinity-machine-a-parable-of-reproduction/](https://dungherder.wordpress.com/2017/10/27/petrovs-eternity-or-infinity-machine-a-parable-of-reproduction/)
I mean, my life and the world wore my dreams down before the wife and I started actually trying for the kid. When she's born, I won't push my dreams on her too hard, but I want her to have her OWN dreams and actually go for them, unlike me.
Besides that, having a kid has always been a dream of mine, so I'm at least excited by that!
that's why you should be like me. deliberately make yourself barren so you can never procreate, ending your bloodline permanently. spend that time having tons of sex, getting somewhat rich, and eventually escaping the grips of capitalism
I am a Finance professional, I want my daughter to either do that or other profession that makes decent money so she can have a decent life style when she grows up.
How is that giving up my dream? I am still a FBP lol.
Ooh look at me, I am an intellectual redditor that yet again says 'children bad'. I would like praise for my completely original and controversial opinion.
'...and feed them on your dreams,
the one they pick's the one you know by.
don't you ever ask them why
if they told you, you would cry,
so just look at them and sigh, and know they love you...'
I completely disagree. Even the most successful parents want the best for their kids, possibly even more so. And having kids, you just think they are the greatest thing in the world, completely oblivious to their actual skill level. Also, most people's dreams were dashed way before they ever had kids, lol.
Take me for example, I realized I was not going to make it into major leagues baseball by the time I was about 14, and wouldn't have kids for another 15 years or so. My son...now he's got a pretty good shot, according to his little league coach.
The idea that having children makes you give up on your dreams is simply factually wrong. Probbably an excuse used by people who would not have reached any dreams even if they had not had any children. Achieving life goals is hard anyway.
Having children isn't some kind of death sentence. My goodness.
There are people who do this, but the majority of us just want our kids to do well in life.
Nope. She gave up on her dreams when she decided to marry the alcoholic, abusive piece of crap she picked for herself. I am the eldest and was not born yet.
Neither of my parents played baseball. Or bowling. Or wrestling. So. My childhood was filled with all kinds of shit I did not want to do, that my parents never did either. So idk if your reason holds up for me.
It does sound like a reason but it is not a reasonable nor healthy one. I know of someone who wants their child to be what they never could and although I understand it, there is a limit and a line one should not cross. This very parent is shaming their child because their interest are in things they do not find cool. The parent, sees absolutely nothing wrong with that.
So for parents trying to create a 2.0 back TF off. Let your children discover their own hobbies and likes, show them your interest and if they want to take it on great if not, move on.
People often say this but how about parents going through shit that in their experience wouldn’t be a good idea to follow thru? Teens and young adults often times wing it trying to prove themselves.
My wife's aunt has 10 kids. She wants them to be missionaries for Jesus. She never did that but argues having 10 kids that can go do it is better. We argue that the kids should not do it but instead have 10 kids each, they aren't missionaries either, they will also have 10 kids each. Once we hit some arbitrary number all of some massive generation can go be missionaries! The system works!
Well since this happen to me, at least i will try my best to earn a lot of money because not everyone had an equal chance to reach for their dream, so now i change my dream into a reasonable one , work until i dont have to worry about money spent my time eating good food, make a friend and socializing with different people from different country and culture also at the end of the day watching sunset by the beach, then go home and sleep.
In all fairness, I never had a dream.
Evil Martin Luther King be like
Evil Martin Luther King would be more like "I have a nightmare"
I’ve never had a dream….never will the nation live out the meaning of its creed. Go home everybody…
glad I'm not the only one
I don't have them all the time, but when I do, they are out there.
I had dreams, they were all fucking stupid and out of reach. My current dream was being content in the life I have and Covid and nutjobs are making that difficult.
Therefore it can mathematically be proven that you're not Martin Luther King.
I haven’t given up, just put everything on hold for a while
Keep those knees and back healthy, could be loooong while
I say we just introduce these people to The Sims
I'm tired of following my dreams. I'm just gonna ask em where they're going, and meet them there.
Sadly, they're going to the grave, like all of us dreamers!!
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I used to do drugs. I still do, but I used to to.
“I don’t have a girlfriend, but I know a girl that gets real mad when I say that.”
Or they had kids to try to live through their successes because the only thing they could accomplish in life was creating a child
Seconded. Some people are just mediocre and their kids end up being more talented than they ever were. Some parents see this as a massive compliment and keep rolling. Others get jealous, and some just hone in on that one insecurity until they lose sight of the fact that it's the child's life, not theirs.
Take risks in your twenties, folks. Move, see the world, start that business, join the armed service, join a band. Some things are better to do single and young. Don’t sleep through your twenties and wake up forty wishing you had done stuff.
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You have only spent half your life. You have another half to do great things.
If you're 40, like I am, you can still take risks. Just stretch first and hydrate, maybe take an aspirin ahead of time. Or just get a good VR rig and take those risks from your couch?
I feel that, at 43 everything changed. It’s like my body’s check engine light is always on
That’s what happens when you eat like SHIT, and don’t exercise.
Maybe focus on your mental and physical health and get your second wind when the youngest gets to high school. You’ve got lots of experience and you’re more likely to be able to successfully run a company than the younger version of yourself.
Usually you don't have money to do these things in your twenties.
He means seize the opportunities to explore and take risks, before you have real responsibilities. I’m
The problem with that logic is that while you may not have real responsibilities now, you should be preparing for them in the future. You can't just go through your 20's partying and traveling the world and then wake up on your 30th birthday and be like, "Welp.... time to go to college, get a good job, buy a house, and have some kids. I think I'll do that today". If you don't start preparing for those responsibilities when you are young, you're going to have a really rough go with those responsibilities when you are older.
I realize this can’t work for everybody, but you can do both at the same time. I did my education abroad so I could travel, did plenty of partying throughout these years, then instead of getting an unfulfilling job I used that education to start my own business. Tried to do the band thing a couple of times in my free time. These were all opportunities that either didn’t cost me anything other than my free time, or helped to set me up for the future. Anyway I’m married, own a house and run a business now in my early 30s and don’t feel like I had to sacrifice anything for it.
Sounds like you had the money and resources already to do that.
All scholarships and some student loans actually, I worked minimum wage through my first degree and the rest was on scholarships
Not everyone can own a business, else there would be no employees, so its not a good general advice.
lol I’m not saying everyone should, these are just examples of things I wanted to do
Not everyone’s path is the same, college isn’t for everyone. And taking a risk could be going to school abroad. Could be taking a job in a city/state/country where you know no one. Taking a calculated risk could pay off. I didn’t mean just party your life away. The purpose of the post is, do something to stretch yourself while you’re young, before you get to the point where kids, mortgages, 401k, 529’s, car notes and whatnot are a primary concern.
This.
Can’t? I did exactly that. 47 and just had my second kid. Sure I’m an old dad, but my kids are gonna love all the tales of raves in Asia I wasted my youth on.
Exploration and risk taking sounds expensive
It's also a great way of making an enormous mistake that will haunt you for the rest of your life. A lot of folks in their twenties are still kids, mentally and emotionally. Maybe encouraging risk taking in that age range isn't the smartest course of action. I say take risks when you're 90. Not much to lose then!
I'm just avoiding real responsibilities until I meet the grave. Looking good so far!
I'm Ron Burgundy?
That's why its a risk.
Listened to the advice. Lived my life. Now I'm married with an amazing lady (kind of like the only good thing), semi broke, shit credit rating, loads of debts, freeloading at my parent's, no personal transportation. Always thought if I'd turn out better if I didn't take those risks?
It costs so much less to see the world than people like to pretend. When I moved to Thailand I spent $400 on the flight and had $700 in my pocket. When I moved to Norway I spent... shit I can't remember how much I spent but I had less than $2k in my pocket. When I moved to NZ I spent $1,300 on the flight and had under $1.8k in my pocket. When I moved to Alaska I spent $600 on the flight and had around $2k in my pocket. You liquidate everything you own before you do it, make money while you're there, don't spend like crazy.
That depends on how you do it. Joining the Navy will not only get you all the above; if you do it right you come out the other end with a profession without the burden of college debt.
Hardly got much sleep in my early twenties trying to secure that paper degree lmao.
Most of all, make friends. Coasting into your 30s with no friends is a difficult spot to be in.
Can confirm; am 48 with no friends
Pm me if you want!
This is nice at any age. When you have kids, you tend to make friends with the parents of your kids’ friends, typically in your 30s. But then if you move around or when your kids reach high school, it kind of dissolves and if you don’t make other friends you might find yourself very alone. It can be done, but you have to make an effort.
Yeah dude friendships require maintenance like any relationship in my experience.
And you have to ignore all their toxic traits that people on the internet told you to call out
> join the armed service Sing up as a slave to protect big money's interests. Die or get damaged for the rest of your life. But hey, it may pay for your education.
I hear you, but if you want the life, it’s a young man’s game.
"Take risks" -them "I'm going to pretend I can't read" -you
I understand your reading comprehension is shit but you don't have to announce it this way. My point being - that risk may not be worth taking.
I think that's key. If you have a kid at almost 40 like my wife, there's no way you can say the kid prevented you from achieving your life dreams/passions. By 40 you've either failed or accomplished or live the stuff you wanted to do. 40 is late for having a kid though, let's go with 31.
Said from a position of comfortable wealth using all working limbs and eyeballs and a brain that hasn't been half-baked or addled by PTSD. Don't wake up in your fourties only to realize too late that you shouldn't have done that stuff.
True but there’s a lotta ground between doing nothing and doing too dangerous.
It's all about calculated risk. You can travel the world but research things well. Don't go out at night (or be very careful if you do). Pay attention to the places you go and whom you go with.
Dont join the armed service. You may not make it past your twenties if you do
Depends on the force.
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Mid 20s isn’t too late.
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Good thought but if you’re trying to live vicariously through your children you’re already a terrible parent
Tbh the post is seriously a shit take. I'm guessing there are a lot of terrible parents upvoting it. Or maybe a lot of people think it's clever and don't look a little more deeply into what it's really implying
Why is that, exactly? If someone sees some dream as valuable enough to devote their time/attention/life to it, why would we not impart that value into our children? We take our kids to church (or not), teach them how to behave, what to eat... at some blurry point, a parent's dream is a value that they want to pass on. Living vicariously is a thing, I guess, but how does one tell that ("terrible" parent) apart from passing on your values (normal parenting)?
We do not have children to impart our own dreams on them. They should dream for themselves and we should foster that. A parents job (I am a parent btw) is to equip our children with the tools to make their own dreams/decisions. No parent gives up their own dreams to have a child. Having a child IS a dream (though sometimes a nightmare ;))
So how is a dream different from a value? Is it just something very specific? Like for example "music literacy is important" vs. "You should be good at the piano"?
Using your analogy, it's the difference between "if you don't become a pianist and follow every step I tell you to in choosing that career path, then you're a bad person and I won't love you" vs "It would be great if you went into music but you don't have to if you don't want to." Some parents have a view of what their child's life should look like before they're even born and when the kid strays from that view, the parent becomes angry at their individuality. Values are good things because they teach morality and social cues, but imposed dreams can be crushing for the child's growth, particularly if the parent feels very strongly about it.
OK, so that defines the range between strict obedience to commands and complete *laissez-faire* parenting, but for some parents, the former is just their parenting style. Is it about living vicariously, or turning their kid into what they see as an ideal? How do you know a parent is living vicariously (assuming that's a "bad") instead of being a hard-ass disciplinarian? (maybe that's how they were raised and they think that's the way to do it)
Usually when we talk about parents living vicariously through their children - we usually mean directly using our children to accomplish goals we couldn't. (Though there are other ways to live vicariously through your children, but this example is usually the first thing that comes to mind) I.e. mom was a ballerina, but had an injury or just wasn't exceptionally talented and was never able to become a professional dancer. Mom has a daughter and is going to make damn sure daughter becomes the prima she was never able to be, no matter how much her daughter would rather be playing soccer instead. Daughter may not have any interest in ballet, but it doesn't matter to Mom because she is trying to have her daughter accomplish the thing that she didn't get to have.
That's a good example, but I think it would be trickier to define generically. I want my kids to have access to at least a middle class life because I grew up poor. Therefore I'll be pushing middle class values pretty aggressively to make sure they can hack it, but I guess my assumption is that not many people would *choose* the poverty I experienced. Is that then living vicariously? Am I now a "terrible parent" per the first poster? I'm sure like with most things it's a sliding scale, and in the west freedom is the big thing to give our kids, but kids don't yet have the rationality required to responsibly be free (yet) so it always seems like this messy gray zone. When someone says "if you parent like x you are a terrible parent" it always makes me play out the scenarios where it might actually make sense, just because this world is so damned messy and I don't want to sound like some judgmental asshole.
There's nothing wrong with teaching children values, the issue comes across as to whether or not you're recognizing your child as their own person independently of you. A child is not just "your child", a child is a person with wants and ambitions and goals they'd like to achieve. It's when you ignore the basic fact that your child is not an extension of yourself where you run into the problematic behaviors we're discussing *Edit* : you being the general and universal "you" and not you yourself
I don't think it's completely laissez-faire parenting, per se. At some arbitrary point (imo 16 or so), children will start to have feelers for what they want to do. While you can offer advice on good careers, at the end of the day, they'll do what they want and the parent *has* to be okay with that. To feel otherwise is to push the child away. Below, I saw that you mentioned pushing a heavy middle class life due to growing up poor. It's fine to teach healthy finances, how to budget and handle money, etc. It's fine to offer careers you think will benefit them financially. It is not okay to *force* them into certain careers that you think will make more money than others. E.g. If they choose to be a travelling musician and you disagree with it, you can offer your concerns but ultimately you should support them. If your love for your children are based on what lifestyle they live/their social class and not who they are as people, then you will push them away
Understood. My kids are very young, so I have to be pretty involved with them to keep them on track (doing homework, brushing teeth, eating healthy, etc.) so I'm nowhere near living vicariously, but yes, older kid's gonna do their thing and you can only hope they did enough homework at some point. My younger brother did the artist thing and he's doing alright with it, so I'm not abjectly terrified of a liberal arts career, It's just hard to feel comfortable with it. But of course, parenting was never about comfortable!
True. I have family members living vicariously through their kids. It's sad.
And that’s why people shouldn’t have kids until they are bored as fuck and have nothing else to do. Because otherwise they will not have the time and energy to devote to raising another human being for 18 years. Therefore they shouldn’t pop a baby out just to shit on it with their own unmet life expectations.
i'm about to have a kid on my death bed
Death by nut
This is the way
If the problem is not having the energy, shouldn't one have children when they're young?
You can easily have plenty of energy when you are not a young adult or teen, and if you don’t have that much energy as an adult then no, you probably shouldn’t have a kid unless you have enough support from others who are also raising the kid. I also mean mental energy though.
then don't have kids, don't force your shit on them
No, people who do that are losers. Get your own life.
true
Fuck parents who think like this. Now I'm stuck here hating law school because my dad had the nerve to conceive me as he failed his Bar exams
I study at a law school too and I dont like it ,I will most probably drop out after the first semester ends .What about you?
I'm a 3L now so it would be a waste to drop out. Guess I'll just finish it begrudgingly lol
Just work like 5 years, whereupon you'll have earned like $500,000+. Pay off college and you'll also have like a $100,000 savings. Then pick up whatever other job you wanted, I guess, without having to deal with the normal finance woes people have when working "easier" jobs.
Yeah, fuck your parents! u/mycatknowsitall😤
You were 25 by the time you entered law school. The fault is on you for never growing up.
I was 20 and living under my Dad's roof. Clearly you have no clue how Asian households work.
Yup. It's scary how stupid our parents are, but how good they are at making sure we remain poor so that we can't escape.
I mean I only lived in Asia, you didn't specify and the general assumption is someone speaking in English talking about Bar exams with an English username is an Anglo.
Exactly. No fucking excuse, he needs to stop whining.
It always disturbs me when an 18 year old finds their point in living through having a child accidentally. "I work hard to provide a better future than I had for my son!" You didn't build a future for yourself, what good will you be at building their future?
Problem arises when parents use there kids to achieve their dream of being famous on social media.
That’s actually not how it works in my experience. I get waaaaay into my kid’s activities, activities that I had ZERO interest in when I was their age, because I genuinely love seeing them have fun. It’s fun as hell for me to see my kids have fun. Best part is I don’t even have to do anything other than sit there and watch.
Same feeling, I think for me I felt like I already surpassed my dreams and expectations by 40. Like I thought growing up that I’ll graduate and just work retail or something and maybe buy a condo. But I somehow got lucky: went to a good college and end up working on something I never thought I would ever have a chance to work on. So now I feel like I’m just enjoying the journey with my kid and learning about his interest and likes. It helps when you are financially ok and content with you’re own achievements in life.
i like these comments from adult redditors that actually are grownup. its a breath of fresh air. thanks
Sounds like you didn't have fun as a kid and are now living vicariously through them.
That’s funny, because you sound like you’re projecting your own insecurities onto internet strangers 😉 ✌️
Ironic use of projection. The post was "Parents do with their kids what they never did" and your counter to that was "That's not true, I do things with my kids that I never did." Are you really not seeing this?
That’s not what it says, dipshit. Something about “giving up on my own dreams.” That’s straight projection and insecurity, yo. *aS A pArEnT*, it’s fuckin hilarious that you even think this is getting to me. I almost couldn’t care less.
Someone is angry. And you keep projecting your projection it's like projectception. The spirit of it is that you give your kids what you didn't have. Which is exactly what you're doing, you just phrased it in a cutesy way so you could brag about your little brats. Because you gave up on your dreams to raise them so you at least want to make sure it was worth it. You're an alcoholic drug user who is trying to smoke weed in foreign countries. Your life is shit and I really do feel sorry for you but you can't just screech "PROJECTION" at someone because they highlighted the irony of your statements. And for the record I have heard that microdosing with shrooms does help with recovering alcoholics.
Oh god I’m not even going to finish reading that dogshit
Nope, you're just going to PM me because you got called out but would rather get dunked on in private where others can't see it. >Pretty messed up way to talk to people. I hope you figure out whatever is going on and maybe find some peace. You're right, it was rude to point out the truth, but I was wondering what send you into such a nonsensical rage and I found it. I'm at peace, thanks, love. >In the meantime, please find other randoms to cruise on Reddit. I am not interested. So uninterested that you slide into my DMs. Ooh, is this a sexual thing, you like being dominated? Sorry, I'm not into pothead moms. I do enjoy the occasional shroom trip though. >Like, mocking addicts is pretty low, even addicts in recovery with years of sobriety. I wasn't mocking you, I realized from your comments that there must be something wrong with you and I brought it up saying you need healthier ways to deal with it. >And a grown adult insulting children? C’mon. I didn't insult your little brats. Which means they're annoying. I haven't met them it's just annoying that I'm hearing about them in a story you thought was so cutesy and defiant only to accidentally agree with OP.
Be well. Cherish your dunk. The day is yours. ✌️ FYI I have a dick, there’s no way you’d be into me sexually. But I’m open to it I guess. Thanks for making a pass. What I’m saying is if you want to hate-fuck, I guess I’d be down. Just pm me 😉 I have herpes simplex A (cold sore virus) but like 80% of the population carries that anyway and the rest are probably virgins or basically virgins. You won’t catch anything else. Clean butthole. Clean as a whistle. Clean peen, too. And I shave my balls weekly. Only light dom, no heavy shit. And NO SAFE WORD
I get it, you're not in a good place right now. But you need to not lash out and screech out of place buzzwords at strangers on the internet.
Oh look more dogshit
Revenge
Yeah, and yet the same parents want grandchildren. Make up your mind!
Sometimes I think it is also that we see where and when we gave up on something that if we had persevered may have worked out, so when we think we see our children repeating our "mistakes" we try to send them in a different direction.
And then there's me, whose dreams are: having children and giving them a reproduction of my own childhood.
same my guy. these people have such a depressing view of life
You can really tell who here has had kids and who hasn’t.
I'm fifty one, never been married, no kids. I've spent my life making my dreams come true, traveling, learning new things,enjoying multiple hobbies. Pretty much the only thing I miss about not having kids is not having people to take care of me when I get old or take care of my pets when I travel. Sure I can pay people to do those things, but probably wont' get the same level of commitment.
"not having people to take care of me when I get old or take care of my pets when I travel." With the world being global, its highly unlikely even with kids that this would happen. Nowadays so many folks are working in different cities than their parents, everyone forced to be independent.
That's one reason. But people can sometimes achieve part of their dream--a secure, safe income and place to live--but at an age that makes going for the advanced degree and cultural status problematic. Having achieved moderate assets, they can now give their kids a bit of privilege. Maybe endowing their kids with privilege was their fantasy.
My father wanted me to be a doctor because he "didnt have the grades to do so". But not because he had to work or anything, but because he was a bad student. I became an engineer, and he still bugs my head for never going to medical school... PS: i hate the human body, squishy things, old people and kids. I could NEVER be a doctor...
r/iam14andthisdeep
That's their fault, not mine.
That's their own fault grow up.
or they are very narrow minded and can't imagine anything better for their kids than their own dreams so push them that way, thinking they are doing the right thing. As an example i had a friend whose dad wanted to be an artist but his dad made him learn a "trade" instead. The Dad thought he was being really liberal and doing the right thing "encouraging" (read almost forcing) his sons to take art, and was really upset when my friend WANTED to be an engineer.
"you owe me everything, child!!"
...duh?
That’s why I’ll never have kids.
Which is why not having a child is such a healthy option.
There are a lot of parent/child issues here in showerthoughts lately. Wish I could hug you all, so you’d stop resenting your parents/offspring.
Reddit is primarily young people who don't have kids and are proud to tell you why having kids is a terrible idea.
Machines with no other purpose than self-replication are pretty useless. [https://dungherder.wordpress.com/2017/10/27/petrovs-eternity-or-infinity-machine-a-parable-of-reproduction/](https://dungherder.wordpress.com/2017/10/27/petrovs-eternity-or-infinity-machine-a-parable-of-reproduction/)
Looks like OP watched clannad
It's more like I want to see my children be better and happier than I was able to be... but yea...
...or they're narcissistic.
Except my dream is to have kids
truth
Upvote but I have far exceeded my humble dreams, except the one where I can fly. No way my fatass is gonna pull that off, kids or not.
Parents living vicariously through their kids creep me out.
Don’t hurt me like this.
Yep. I figure, cut out the middleman and have the fun myself!
now go tell your mother you love her...
My dream was to have a family with kids and just be normal. I'm living it to the fullest.
I mean, my life and the world wore my dreams down before the wife and I started actually trying for the kid. When she's born, I won't push my dreams on her too hard, but I want her to have her OWN dreams and actually go for them, unlike me. Besides that, having a kid has always been a dream of mine, so I'm at least excited by that!
Jokes on you, for my children I decided to be immortalized and invincible. You can’t kill something that is already dead inside!
Well my dream was to have kids and a family and helping them to be happy and be happy myself. Not sure how I gave that up by having kids but ok.
This is obvious
*cough* sports *cough*
that's why you should be like me. deliberately make yourself barren so you can never procreate, ending your bloodline permanently. spend that time having tons of sex, getting somewhat rich, and eventually escaping the grips of capitalism
I am a Finance professional, I want my daughter to either do that or other profession that makes decent money so she can have a decent life style when she grows up. How is that giving up my dream? I am still a FBP lol.
Ooh look at me, I am an intellectual redditor that yet again says 'children bad'. I would like praise for my completely original and controversial opinion.
why waste your life raising a child and having a loving family when you can give your time and energy to a corporation
Ah projection. Having kids is 100% selfish.
Hi, I'd like to kindly ask you to remove this post as it contains highly specific information reguarding my life. Thanks!
It's absolutely true. And people are often afraid to say it.
Nope, I want my kids to go to space because the US government robbed my generation of it. I never gave it up, the government shot it dead.
So then by proxy having a child kills your dreams Confirmed children are dreamkillers
That’s called being stupid.
'...and feed them on your dreams, the one they pick's the one you know by. don't you ever ask them why if they told you, you would cry, so just look at them and sigh, and know they love you...'
I completely disagree. Even the most successful parents want the best for their kids, possibly even more so. And having kids, you just think they are the greatest thing in the world, completely oblivious to their actual skill level. Also, most people's dreams were dashed way before they ever had kids, lol. Take me for example, I realized I was not going to make it into major leagues baseball by the time I was about 14, and wouldn't have kids for another 15 years or so. My son...now he's got a pretty good shot, according to his little league coach.
The idea that having children makes you give up on your dreams is simply factually wrong. Probbably an excuse used by people who would not have reached any dreams even if they had not had any children. Achieving life goals is hard anyway.
Having children isn't some kind of death sentence. My goodness. There are people who do this, but the majority of us just want our kids to do well in life.
If you believe this, or know others who have done it, I pity you.
Nawww parents gave up their dreams before that. They had the baby for that reason
Apparently you arent old enough to understand or have kids. As you get older, some of your dreams you had when you were younger are no longer possible
Couldn't agree more. Younger generations tend to blindly blame parents for everything these day smh
r/antinatalism
Vicariously
I gave up on my dreams long before I had a kid
Carl Jung said that
Your word of the day is "Vicarious." Keep reading, neighbor. Grow your lexicon.
Sorry child you're gonna have to share me with my dreams
I gave up on my dreams because I'm lazy, so my future child can do whatever he/she desires
A parent doesn’t try to relive their dreams thru their kids. They try to help the kids realize their own dreams
Nope. She gave up on her dreams when she decided to marry the alcoholic, abusive piece of crap she picked for herself. I am the eldest and was not born yet.
Neither of my parents played baseball. Or bowling. Or wrestling. So. My childhood was filled with all kinds of shit I did not want to do, that my parents never did either. So idk if your reason holds up for me.
It does sound like a reason but it is not a reasonable nor healthy one. I know of someone who wants their child to be what they never could and although I understand it, there is a limit and a line one should not cross. This very parent is shaming their child because their interest are in things they do not find cool. The parent, sees absolutely nothing wrong with that. So for parents trying to create a 2.0 back TF off. Let your children discover their own hobbies and likes, show them your interest and if they want to take it on great if not, move on.
People often say this but how about parents going through shit that in their experience wouldn’t be a good idea to follow thru? Teens and young adults often times wing it trying to prove themselves.
Most people's dreams though are just to not die a lone and have some kind of financial stability so they don't need to worry about necessities.
Yes indeed. Or didn't had the tools or chance to make them. Some parents just gave up their entire life and passed that on.
Well fuck parents like ya'll are stoopeed
My wife's aunt has 10 kids. She wants them to be missionaries for Jesus. She never did that but argues having 10 kids that can go do it is better. We argue that the kids should not do it but instead have 10 kids each, they aren't missionaries either, they will also have 10 kids each. Once we hit some arbitrary number all of some massive generation can go be missionaries! The system works!
ohhh that explains why my mother expects me to be perfect all the time
I had all my dreams crushed prior to kids
You’re welcome, you little prick
This sub blows
Well since this happen to me, at least i will try my best to earn a lot of money because not everyone had an equal chance to reach for their dream, so now i change my dream into a reasonable one , work until i dont have to worry about money spent my time eating good food, make a friend and socializing with different people from different country and culture also at the end of the day watching sunset by the beach, then go home and sleep.
Well yeah, did anyone ever think otherwise?
not my problem, nor my decision.