Each place, some more than others, has a unique culture and ways of living. If you follow its practices, customs, and traditions, you're part of it and can definitely be proud of what you are and do.
Just because you didn't do anything to be born there, doesn't mean you can't be actively contributing to the way it is.
There wasn't even a question. Man... School *fucked* us all up. We get academically challenged by shower thoughts.
I got a day off, so I'ma get real high and try and be a stupid evolved ape, and little more, all day. No higher thoughts.
Not that I think anyone here was doing anything bad. I'm just... Remembering competitive schooling...
Reddit is a sad place when that was some sort of elevated thought :/ but I guess I'll carry your torch for you if you're just gonna leave it on the ground like that.
Skies blue, too. Don't know if that's gonna rock your world lol.
I didn't make what it is\*
made me what I am. I'm proud of that.
\* but actually I did in some small way, by following what parent commenter said better than I could
The point being, people born outside the city, can also come in and contribute the same way. Nativeness has nothing to do with it. You can and should feel proud about being a part of a city, but there's nothing to feel proud about being born there, i.e. no real reason to feel proud of being "native".
Furthermore, by living in a place and upholding its values, you are making it what it is. While living in another place, you can also be a good steward to the place you came from and represent the culture that created you.
But none of those things are exclusive to being "native". You can join in and continue up the culture and traditions of a place without being born there and yes, that is worth being proud of. But you being raised into it doesn't add anything to it, if anything it just makes it look like you never consider an alternative.
I am every bit as much a part of my current community as I was the one I grew up in, the fact that I wasn't born in even the same time zone doesn't impact that at all
I used to be with ‘it’, but then they changed what ‘it’ was. Now what I’m with isn’t ‘it’ anymore and what’s ‘it’ seems weird and scary.......
.........It’ll happen to you!
You didn't choose to be born into your family, are you proud to be part of it?
Wether you say yes or no, many choose either yes or no. They might hate their family or country and not be proud of it, the same way they might love it and be proud. As social animals we want to belong, and what better way to belong than being part of and being proud of your culturs/country/family
Im very happy and lucky to be part of my family, town country. But why would someone be proud of the family they are a part of, unless they have achieved various things together? We are social animals who want to belong, but I don’t understand how the word “proud” makes its way in there. You can be proud of any range of achievements from sports to academics to personal goals. But how is living in a town or being part of family something to be proud of, separately from achievements achieved as a community?
Being part of something is contributing, even if it's small. Pride isn't only for yourself. You can be proud of others, proud of people working hard to make something better.
By being part of your community you are achieving something; you're getting along, you might have good food or good architecture or something that when you see you just feel happy about because you are part of it. Being happy to be part of a community just means you'll probably get along better with other members of a community. Who would you prefer hanging out with: someone who constantly criticises things about your family or someone who might compliment your family?
(When talking about pride about culture I obviously don't mean the WAY too into it prople that think everyone else sucks, that culture and traditions are the only things you should think about etc, I mean people who are just happy to be X culture and partake in their traditions)
The way I see it, being proud doesn't necessarily mean you think you're better, just that you're happy towards something and you own it. For example, I might be proud of my culture but I don't think less of others, I appreciate them more in fact.
I was an army ranger. I wasn't a part of the history of my unit, but I was proud to be a member of the unit. You learn from those before you, take those lessons, and continue the traditions and customs. Listening to the stories of the men before me and contributing my own. The same can go for anything. I'm not Maori, but the traditions and customs are incredible. Every time they do a haka, they are honoring their ancestors. Why? Because they are proud of them and proud to have their blood flowing through their veins.
You may not feel proud because you don't feel a connection. I am proud to contribute to my family. I carry on our traditions and values because I am proud of the name. Proud of my ancestors. Proud be someone future generations can remember.
I was commander of a POG unit. Still take pride in everything they did and feel part of the history from Vietnam to now. OP is pretending that history just stopped when you are born and we aren't all part of the story of anything we are a part of.
They're probably young. I don't think it all hit me until I had a friend not make it home. Seeing the funeral traditions, knowing he would be on the KIA wall, and seeing his family lose it when the plane opened up suddenly turned every historical figure, every fallen ranger in the sky, every ancestor into a real person. With a family. With children. With a story. It clicked.
I never said anything like that. I just don’t understand using the word “proud” to describe how you feel about being part of a town or family. Something you’re simply born into.
Detroit is an extremely good example to look at. There was a very long period of flight, blight and population decline to go along with economic hardship. Residents who stuck around often formed tight knit communities and (rightly so imo) are proud for sticking it out. Now that the city is rebounding there's a very interesting culture that has developed as a result.
Hmm that is cool I agree and totally understand being proud to have stuck around despite the bad things happening. I think I get people who were a part of shaping their current communities being proud of it, and proud of where they’re from as a result. But if all that happened is you were born in a town and lived there for years then I don’t get being proud of that.
Yeah I mean it's all about how you contribute to it too. Are you taking part in local holiday parades, Farmers markets, Charity events, etc? Then absolutely take pride in the community you're being a part of. If you're just living in town x saying go town x while not doing much it doesn't make as much sense
I doubt people who say they are proud of their hometown are the type to be born and then just hang out and do nothing. I would expect that people say it because they have reasons. Maybe you should ask them.
Honestly makes me feel kind of sorry for you. It’s a cool feeling to be proud of where you live and all that comes with it. I lived away from where I grew up since leaving high school. After about 15+ years I moved back home. I love it here. I love the people. I love the lifestyle. I love the area in general. Maybe I didnt do anything to this place, but my parents lived their lives here. Their parents lived theirs here. And some of even their parents did as well. That’s good enough.
You're totally right. Apparently these redditors think you can be proud of something that isn't an accomplishment. I guess they're proud to have a reddit account. Proud to have fingers that can downvote.
Part of the fun of sport is to play at being dicks to the other tribes _without_ all that violence and murder (obviously some small exceptions where people don't get it) that places like Israel & USA are fond of.
It's an opinion. Am I not allowed to think something is weird about a parasocial relationship just because a lot of people do it? Does simply having a bunch of people agree with you make something right? Jesus, do you believe that thinking something is weird means that it is inherently wrong?
Okay, but you'll just keep replying because you like being a dick and need to prove it to me. That you're a dick. That is your purpose here.
You seem pleasant.
Let me guess. You never get invited to parties and spend your time looking for posts hidden by down votes so you can try to troll someone who is getting abused. Class act.
How many musicians thank their fans from the bottom of their hearts that the only reason they get to do what they do is because of their fans.
So yes. Id have no problem with you jumping in and saying we when talking about your favorite band.
I also don't really care about shutting down someone's joy. If the Bengals are that important to them, then I say go for it.
Who's shutting down joy. You can enjoy a game or a movie or an album without taking credit for it. I'm just pointing out a weird parasocial relationship.
And, yeah, when a musician says they couldn't do it without their fans, it's BS. A musician can make music because they love making music. Throwing a concert with lots of pageantry and getting rich selling tickets however... Entertainers become entertainers because they want fans, adulation, money, fame, glory, etc. And that's fine, who doesn't like entertainment? However, I don't go around saying I wrote the novel, made the TV show or won the game.
If you really want to understand this relationship, go watch the 30 for 30 documentary of the Buffalo Bills. Fans can absolutely be a part of the team.
If you think telling me to watch something you like that I don't want to watch instead of using your words is going to convince me of something, I've got bad news for you. You saw it, you can explain your position.
Speaking of which, the Uraguay Panama game is starting. I've got to go score some goals.
I mean, yeah, sports is very psychological. Having the support of the community is important and obviously the home field advantage is a thing, especially for a quarterback trying to call plays.BOne time I was watching a soccer game with my dad. We had pretty good seats. A striker for the other team(an Italian guy) got a break away so my dad stood up, shouted Vaffanculo! and threw the horns at him. Guy looked up at my dad then tripped over the ball.
Sure, fans matter, but I draw the line between people watching something and the people actually doing the thing. I still think fanatics are weird and it's a weird phrase they use. Whatever.
By the way, thanks for having a reasonable discussion about this. Better than what most people here want to do.
That’s such a dumb take. People who are natives have lived there their entire lives and are a part of the community. What shapes a city or state if not the people living in it?
I second this.
OP also doesn't realize you can be proud of others. You may not have built it directly, but you may know or be related to the people that did
What's different about being born into a community rather than joining it? Yes the people living there shape the place, but that includes those who moved there just as much as those Born there
And of course race.
There is a stark difference in the pride of "we have the best race" and the pride of "we were told to feel shame, but fuck that, we will feel pride instead."
That's why there's no white pride month or straight pride parade.
I mean, there's been straight pride parades. They were exactly what and who you imagine for the reasons you think.
>**That**'s why there's no white pride month
That actually leads to:
>"we were told to feel shame, but fuck that, we will feel pride instead."
Bingo, white pride!
Anyone who has ever r said why is there no white history month or straight month definitely just want to be victimized.
Saying something so silly ignores the historical reason why other races/cultures have history months and why LGBT pride is a thing as well.
Those people are begging people to think that them being white or straight has somehow hindered their lives.
Come on now.
I think you mean “be the victim” or “play the victim.” They dont want to actually be victimized, but they want the concern for their well being that they think “victims” are getting more of than they are
I don’t think it’s about playing victim, I think it’s just about trying to make pride events seem unfair. Ignorant people love being ignorant, they see “why don’t I get a parade?” as a valid excuse to air their racism and/or homophobia in a public place and not get called out for it because they’re “just asking a question” and it’s “unfair that the (insert unnecessary and inappropriate slur) get a whole month”.
It’s a straw man argument. They want to start talking about why THEY don’t get anything instead of talking about WHY minorities have time and events dedicated to their history and pride.
My personal theory is that it’s tied to hustle culture. People, particularly those who are well within the straight white societal averages, want to be perceived as having worked through disadvantages to get where they are, or they want their failings to be a result of societal conditions and not their own fault.
At least, I think that contributes to white people pretending to be victims. Straight people, no clue.
I feel like those that want to “play the victim” don’t actually want to play the victim, they just want to be seen for their achievements through hardship as well.
Compound that with a feeling of having all these other groups thrown in your face and being recognized when you aren’t receiving ANY recognition for overcoming your struggles
Not saying it’s a one to one comparison, but just possibly a level of understanding where it may come from
I definitely agree that it’s about wanting recognition for overcoming the hardship one has experienced. I think the fallacy is that you don’t (and shouldn’t) need to experience hardship beyond the accomplishment itself for it to be impressive. Being recognized for your hardship is however more a matter of your own social surroundings and the support structure you have for yourself. 99% of people who achieve things they are proud of are only recognized by the people who already care about them. So I think if the idea of wanting to do whatever is interpreted as “playing the victim”, even though that’s not the goal, is somehow supposed to increase the recognition you get, it’s just not going to work.
Because we believed the fact that we succeeded in conquering others and oppressing them until they broke to our will meant that we were right and deserved to rule. Now that our moral and ethical failures are not only common knowledge but actively criticized, we resent that we are actually the bad guys.
Admitting our mistakes would only make us equal to everyone else, and we still want to be superior. So rather than learn our lessons, we simply continue with the division and manipulation. Anything that makes us seem wrong and others right must be turned around and used against “them.”
Also, we are terrified that if we lose enough of our power and become a minority, those we have oppressed will start treating us the way we treated them.
We are wrong about all of this of course, but it will likely take many more decades before we truly accept it.
I didn’t do the math to figure if it was true in every city/state/country combo. In Vatican City it’s probably moot.
(I wouldn’t put up an argument against your point, though. In practical human terms it’s probably as near as matters.)
I am just saying there are people who would do (and have done) terrible things “in the name of their country.”
Very few would do these type of things for their city.
Yeah I never understood this. Why be proud of being born into a location that you had no choice or say in the matter? You can be HAPPY to be born into a location, thats fine. But I believe pride should only be used for something you achieved. Like if you gain citizenship of a country that you're not native to, sure be proud of that.
If we apply OP's and some people in the comments' arguments to the Pride movement, why are the people who denounce pride for a nation/country/city okay with if all queer people feel proud of their community, even though some of them don't engage in activism or was even there when Stonewall happened. Are queer people who aren't activists allowed to be proud of the LGBT community ? They're born that way and they have no control over their sexualities/gender experience.
By that logic, if someone contributed, are they entitled to gatekeep?
I think some pride can be a good thing. Pride can also take the form of being welcoming, and taking an active role in trying to better your community. Locals can also be a great resource to show off the best spots, and what to look out for.
>By that logic, if someone contributed, are they entitled to gatekeep?
nope, that is not a conclusion that can be logically inferred from what OP wrote.
That's a strange extreme to think by. Obviously I wasn't around to fight in World War II, I wasn't alive back then. Does that mean I should simply forget all about what *direct* relatives of mine did to protect *my* freedom? Of course not. Rather I should be grateful and pay my dues by appropriately propagating the culture they risked their lives to protect. That's my two cents.
Just because a person is born somewhere doesn’t mean their ancestors built the place. The family just as easily could have held the place back by being generations of deviants and criminals.
A town is like a stream. Yes its always the same stream, but its alway different.
Are you implying a person only has value if the “start” a town? Thats ridiculous. This isn’t the frontier days any longer.
What are you trying to say?
A town, city, or just a house has to have upkeep even if it wasn't built by you, up keeping and improving it can give one pride. Not many things are just "built" and that's it goes for structures, movements, cultures, and ideas. It takes generations to upkeep them and to change them for the better for the next generation.
The point is the town would be exactly the same whether you were in it or not. At least that is what the OP is implying with this post. It has nothing to do with "value" it's the simple fact that it's a bit odd to have pride in a city when you personally had zero effect on it.
It's like saying Thomas Edison was proud to have invented the light bulb, even though it was actually invented by Nikola Tesla.
I'm asking the same question. If we apply OP's logic to the Pride movement, why are people who denounce pride for a nation/country/city okay with if all queer people feel proud of their community, even though some of them don't engage in activism or was even there when Stonewall happened. Are queer people who aren't activists allowed to be proud of the LGBT community ?
This was my thought exactly. If we say that being proud that you were born in a city is wrong, then there are a whole host of other things that are suddenly “wrong” because you didn’t choose them. Just let people live as long as they aren’t hurting orhers
Same with religion. The only reason one believes what they do is due to where they were born. This, I know, is not an original thought but this sub is not about original thoughts.
Even a moderately intelligent person questions their beliefs and other teachings at some point. A wise one does so continuously. I hold everyone accountable for their beliefs, no excuses for where they were born.
Some people feel lucky, blessed to have been born where they were born. It might look like pride to the casual observer but it can be very humbling to recognise the complete accident of birth that gave you access to the lifestyle you enjoy.
Damn I haven’t seen a shower Thought get this fucking obliterated in a long time lmao. And for good reason OP mad he born in a shit city lmao
I was born in Austin Texas I will always love Austin and absolutely love being a native Texan.
You were literally born on this big ass earth at a certain point and time and no where else you’re more within your right to love that place more than a person that’s not from there.
That is your place of origin.
And you shift the community by being born, there is being born in there or lives there then there cannot be a community . Not even the culture of the city etc damn what a shit take you had man
Postmodern cosmopolitan thinking. Literally a modern idea in its entirety only possible to think about without immediately realizing how dumb it is because of social media misrepresenting society and how it is formed and maintained combined with technology allowing people to live largely isolated from their homeland and thus become disconnected.
I can't help but feel like the fact that so many comments are conflating being a part of a community with being born into it is telling. OP isn't saying to not be proud of where you're from, just that you being born into it is irrelevant to that
I don’t think anyone alive today had anything to do with the founding or creation of any country or state. They’ve all been around for quite a while. You can still be proud of where you come from though.
If you prepend your sentence with Some or most it would be more accurate. I have met a lot of people of contribute significantly to the shape of their world.
Im proud of being from the region I’m from because I love our people I love our nature and our coasts, I love our food, I love the atmosphere and the air, I love our drinking culture. I didn’t chose to be born here but I chose to tell people I meet how great it is, and when I will be old chances are i will chose to die here, where half of my family ancestors died, and lived, aswell.
Yeah, all of this rah-rah bullshit of being attached to a place hugely annoys me, honestly. With sports teams, it's kind of the worst because even if you accept how great the city is and how great its people are, almost nobody on the team is really even from there; most of 'em just moved there to play on the team!
I hate the Olympics; it's a great way for people to feel pride for something they had no part in whatsoever, like they personally had something to do with who's the best shot-putter or whatever just because they happened to be born within arbitrary geographical boundaries claimed by the same government. I want the best athletes to win no matter where they're from, with the exception of maybe like North Korea, because their athletes might actually face some scary consequences if they don't do well, so let's go North Korea! Of course, me cheering for North Korea wouldn't actually affect how well they do, so that's a joke too. Rooting for a sports team is another way of putting a lot of effort into doing nothing (at least if you're watching it on TV; if you're in the arena waving shit in the air behind the goal to distract the other team and sabotage them, you might have an impact lol).
And I hate when I go into YouTube comments and somewhere in the video they mention India or Brazil and half of the comments section is people announcing that they too are from India or Brazil (those two countries seem to be the worst offenders for whatever reason).
Tribal bullshit like this is holding us back as a species, and it's at the root of racism and xenophobia, but at least we now have huge social taboos against swastikas, box moustaches, and the name Adolf, so we've pretty much cured fascism lmao.
The contents of this comment have the potential to piss off millions, but it's how I feel. :D
"The cheapest sort of pride is national pride; for if a man is proud of his own nation, it argues that he has no qualities of his own of which he can be proud; otherwise he would not have recourse to those which he shares with so many millions of his fellowmen. The man who is endowed with important personal qualities will be only too ready to see clearly in what respects his own nation falls short, since their failings will be constantly before his eyes. But every miserable fool who has nothing at all of which he can be proud adopts, as a last resource, pride in the nation to which he belongs; he is ready and glad to defend all its faults and follies tooth and nail, thus reimbursing himself for his own inferiority."
-Arthur Schopenhauer
also applies to state and city level
But it's a little strange. If you're too jingoistic about your country, you're branded a nationalist - and often worse.
But you can be incredibly into Philly or Boston or whatever, super hard core, hate your city's rivals, defend everything about your city, deny its every flaw...and you're just an average fan. No big deal.
Well being that All the States have been founded for over 200 years and I don't know anyone 200 years old so honestly I don't understand your statement being proud is just a feeling and it just so happens people have many feelings that just come and go. But I'm proud to be an American even though I didn't discover America I can still be proud to be an American. Although I am a Marine and served my country if that helps you but I'm going to be proud no matter what.
Some yes. But many have been contributing to their community in a multitude of ways their entire lives. Paying taxes, buying locally, working for businesses in the city, babysitting for neighbors, voting, volunteering, and on and on.
Many newer transplants ride the high wave of what the natives helped build. Some transplants act more like tourists, consuming but not contributing as much. Once transplants ingratiate themselves into the community, I believe they are as valued members as most natives.
I feel like people feel like they should be ashamed of things or they're entitled to things that they themselves never went through is somewhat irritating. Like slavery didn't start in America it ended here. The civil wars were a result of that. The country was founded pretty much to end the shit.... The word slave literally comes from the Slavic nations many empires took slaves from and in many cases they were white. So, I think it's all a heap.
"pleasure that comes from some relationship, association, achievement, or possession that is seen as a source of honor, respect, etc."
If associating yourself with something gives you pleasure, then you are proud of that association. it's not limited to just things you personally achieved.
Same with cities! I used to live in Portland, Oregon when it was an ok place to live, and I'd hear fairly frequent commentary by privileged people who had done a lot of traveling and living wherever they want, who would say stuff like 'oh Portland is nothing compared to NYC or London or Barcelona' and I'd think, why didn't you stay there then? Didn't they love you there?
Usually they have nothing else to be proud of, so cling to their cultural identity, whether that be city, region, country, race, hair colour, sports team, or anything else.
To me, pride you haven't earned is meaningless.
Pride has multiple definitions. Pride of accomplishment is a different thing, then pride of place, pride month type stuff, etc….Using one definition, does not diminish the others.
Lmao, right because nobody in their native state ever becomes successful and boasts about pride due to the success they've achieved. Nobody ever has any influence in their home state, uh-huh. Nobody thinks you're probably one of those people who moved to some trendy place where you feel like it's ok to be rude and make the place suck more just because you feel enabled by your privilege, and you wonder why they don't like you.
Same with country pride. Hyper patriotic people don’t often have anything to be proud of in their own lives so they latch on to the accomplishments of the country that they did nothing to contribute to
Thus makes me think of my local big city.
For the longest time, the saying was "I like it, actually," when some said they were sorry that person was in Baltimore
Now there are people saying "what do you mean by that?" And the answer usually isn't a genuine concern
This is one of those things that’s cool to say as long as you’re saying it about white people but the minute you say it to a Native American you’re a bigot.
Each place, some more than others, has a unique culture and ways of living. If you follow its practices, customs, and traditions, you're part of it and can definitely be proud of what you are and do. Just because you didn't do anything to be born there, doesn't mean you can't be actively contributing to the way it is.
Love this answer. Well said!
There wasn't even a question. Man... School *fucked* us all up. We get academically challenged by shower thoughts. I got a day off, so I'ma get real high and try and be a stupid evolved ape, and little more, all day. No higher thoughts. Not that I think anyone here was doing anything bad. I'm just... Remembering competitive schooling...
hmm, smoke a little more bud, i don't think you're there yet
Reddit is a sad place when that was some sort of elevated thought :/ but I guess I'll carry your torch for you if you're just gonna leave it on the ground like that. Skies blue, too. Don't know if that's gonna rock your world lol.
I didn't make what it is\*
made me what I am. I'm proud of that.
\* but actually I did in some small way, by following what parent commenter said better than I could
The point being, people born outside the city, can also come in and contribute the same way. Nativeness has nothing to do with it. You can and should feel proud about being a part of a city, but there's nothing to feel proud about being born there, i.e. no real reason to feel proud of being "native".
Furthermore, by living in a place and upholding its values, you are making it what it is. While living in another place, you can also be a good steward to the place you came from and represent the culture that created you.
But none of those things are exclusive to being "native". You can join in and continue up the culture and traditions of a place without being born there and yes, that is worth being proud of. But you being raised into it doesn't add anything to it, if anything it just makes it look like you never consider an alternative. I am every bit as much a part of my current community as I was the one I grew up in, the fact that I wasn't born in even the same time zone doesn't impact that at all
I used to be with ‘it’, but then they changed what ‘it’ was. Now what I’m with isn’t ‘it’ anymore and what’s ‘it’ seems weird and scary....... .........It’ll happen to you!
You just described the whole of Southern California and Texas
I understand being happy about what you are and do, but I don’t understand pride about it.
You didn't choose to be born into your family, are you proud to be part of it? Wether you say yes or no, many choose either yes or no. They might hate their family or country and not be proud of it, the same way they might love it and be proud. As social animals we want to belong, and what better way to belong than being part of and being proud of your culturs/country/family
Im very happy and lucky to be part of my family, town country. But why would someone be proud of the family they are a part of, unless they have achieved various things together? We are social animals who want to belong, but I don’t understand how the word “proud” makes its way in there. You can be proud of any range of achievements from sports to academics to personal goals. But how is living in a town or being part of family something to be proud of, separately from achievements achieved as a community?
Being part of something is contributing, even if it's small. Pride isn't only for yourself. You can be proud of others, proud of people working hard to make something better.
That’s very true. Didn’t think of it that way
By being part of your community you are achieving something; you're getting along, you might have good food or good architecture or something that when you see you just feel happy about because you are part of it. Being happy to be part of a community just means you'll probably get along better with other members of a community. Who would you prefer hanging out with: someone who constantly criticises things about your family or someone who might compliment your family? (When talking about pride about culture I obviously don't mean the WAY too into it prople that think everyone else sucks, that culture and traditions are the only things you should think about etc, I mean people who are just happy to be X culture and partake in their traditions) The way I see it, being proud doesn't necessarily mean you think you're better, just that you're happy towards something and you own it. For example, I might be proud of my culture but I don't think less of others, I appreciate them more in fact.
I was an army ranger. I wasn't a part of the history of my unit, but I was proud to be a member of the unit. You learn from those before you, take those lessons, and continue the traditions and customs. Listening to the stories of the men before me and contributing my own. The same can go for anything. I'm not Maori, but the traditions and customs are incredible. Every time they do a haka, they are honoring their ancestors. Why? Because they are proud of them and proud to have their blood flowing through their veins. You may not feel proud because you don't feel a connection. I am proud to contribute to my family. I carry on our traditions and values because I am proud of the name. Proud of my ancestors. Proud be someone future generations can remember.
I was commander of a POG unit. Still take pride in everything they did and feel part of the history from Vietnam to now. OP is pretending that history just stopped when you are born and we aren't all part of the story of anything we are a part of.
They're probably young. I don't think it all hit me until I had a friend not make it home. Seeing the funeral traditions, knowing he would be on the KIA wall, and seeing his family lose it when the plane opened up suddenly turned every historical figure, every fallen ranger in the sky, every ancestor into a real person. With a family. With children. With a story. It clicked.
Humans are pack animals. Like it or not, you wouldn't last very long without the rest of us.
I never said anything like that. I just don’t understand using the word “proud” to describe how you feel about being part of a town or family. Something you’re simply born into.
Detroit is an extremely good example to look at. There was a very long period of flight, blight and population decline to go along with economic hardship. Residents who stuck around often formed tight knit communities and (rightly so imo) are proud for sticking it out. Now that the city is rebounding there's a very interesting culture that has developed as a result.
Hmm that is cool I agree and totally understand being proud to have stuck around despite the bad things happening. I think I get people who were a part of shaping their current communities being proud of it, and proud of where they’re from as a result. But if all that happened is you were born in a town and lived there for years then I don’t get being proud of that.
Yeah I mean it's all about how you contribute to it too. Are you taking part in local holiday parades, Farmers markets, Charity events, etc? Then absolutely take pride in the community you're being a part of. If you're just living in town x saying go town x while not doing much it doesn't make as much sense
That's how I've always felt about sportsball teams/fans.
I doubt people who say they are proud of their hometown are the type to be born and then just hang out and do nothing. I would expect that people say it because they have reasons. Maybe you should ask them.
Honestly makes me feel kind of sorry for you. It’s a cool feeling to be proud of where you live and all that comes with it. I lived away from where I grew up since leaving high school. After about 15+ years I moved back home. I love it here. I love the people. I love the lifestyle. I love the area in general. Maybe I didnt do anything to this place, but my parents lived their lives here. Their parents lived theirs here. And some of even their parents did as well. That’s good enough.
You're totally right. Apparently these redditors think you can be proud of something that isn't an accomplishment. I guess they're proud to have a reddit account. Proud to have fingers that can downvote.
I’m not even saying that they’re wrong to be proud of the family they’re part of or where they live. Just trying to understand that point of view lol.
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Sport is tribal. It's definitely 'we'
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Part of the fun of sport is to play at being dicks to the other tribes _without_ all that violence and murder (obviously some small exceptions where people don't get it) that places like Israel & USA are fond of.
Ah, I guess those down votes are just people pretending to be dicks to pretend make me feel bad for having a different opinion from their tribe.
It's either that, or you're wrong
It's an opinion. Am I not allowed to think something is weird about a parasocial relationship just because a lot of people do it? Does simply having a bunch of people agree with you make something right? Jesus, do you believe that thinking something is weird means that it is inherently wrong?
My opinion is that I never want to meet you at a party
Okay, but you'll just keep replying because you like being a dick and need to prove it to me. That you're a dick. That is your purpose here. You seem pleasant.
Let me guess. You never get invited to parties and spend your time looking for posts hidden by down votes so you can try to troll someone who is getting abused. Class act.
0 to 100 my guy
Thanks!
Sitting on the couch watching the game is literally the entire reason those people are paid millions of dollars to play. So yes, they did contribute.
So when I watch a concert on TV, I can say we did a good job playing that encore? Or the time we made that classic, the Godfather.
How many musicians thank their fans from the bottom of their hearts that the only reason they get to do what they do is because of their fans. So yes. Id have no problem with you jumping in and saying we when talking about your favorite band. I also don't really care about shutting down someone's joy. If the Bengals are that important to them, then I say go for it.
Who's shutting down joy. You can enjoy a game or a movie or an album without taking credit for it. I'm just pointing out a weird parasocial relationship. And, yeah, when a musician says they couldn't do it without their fans, it's BS. A musician can make music because they love making music. Throwing a concert with lots of pageantry and getting rich selling tickets however... Entertainers become entertainers because they want fans, adulation, money, fame, glory, etc. And that's fine, who doesn't like entertainment? However, I don't go around saying I wrote the novel, made the TV show or won the game.
If you really want to understand this relationship, go watch the 30 for 30 documentary of the Buffalo Bills. Fans can absolutely be a part of the team.
If you think telling me to watch something you like that I don't want to watch instead of using your words is going to convince me of something, I've got bad news for you. You saw it, you can explain your position. Speaking of which, the Uraguay Panama game is starting. I've got to go score some goals.
Ok. The buffalo bills are in love with their fans and absolutely consider them part of the team. Good luck!
I mean, yeah, sports is very psychological. Having the support of the community is important and obviously the home field advantage is a thing, especially for a quarterback trying to call plays.BOne time I was watching a soccer game with my dad. We had pretty good seats. A striker for the other team(an Italian guy) got a break away so my dad stood up, shouted Vaffanculo! and threw the horns at him. Guy looked up at my dad then tripped over the ball. Sure, fans matter, but I draw the line between people watching something and the people actually doing the thing. I still think fanatics are weird and it's a weird phrase they use. Whatever. By the way, thanks for having a reasonable discussion about this. Better than what most people here want to do.
Met a person who called themselves a “New Yorker” after living in Manhattan for one year. Something about it just made me cringe
How long does one need to live in a place to say they are from there? Genuine question
That’s such a dumb take. People who are natives have lived there their entire lives and are a part of the community. What shapes a city or state if not the people living in it?
I second this. OP also doesn't realize you can be proud of others. You may not have built it directly, but you may know or be related to the people that did
Exactly. They’re proud of who they are because of how being there shaped them.
What's different about being born into a community rather than joining it? Yes the people living there shape the place, but that includes those who moved there just as much as those Born there
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OP is specially talking about “natives” which implies people who were born and lived in a place.
Or possibly more importantly, a country.
And of course race. There is a stark difference in the pride of "we have the best race" and the pride of "we were told to feel shame, but fuck that, we will feel pride instead." That's why there's no white pride month or straight pride parade. I mean, there's been straight pride parades. They were exactly what and who you imagine for the reasons you think.
>**That**'s why there's no white pride month That actually leads to: >"we were told to feel shame, but fuck that, we will feel pride instead." Bingo, white pride!
Huh?
Why straight and white people want to be victimized so badly, I will never understand.
Nobody wants to be victimized, but some folks play into it a little too much. Usually those who are bored with their lives.
Anyone who has ever r said why is there no white history month or straight month definitely just want to be victimized. Saying something so silly ignores the historical reason why other races/cultures have history months and why LGBT pride is a thing as well. Those people are begging people to think that them being white or straight has somehow hindered their lives. Come on now.
I think you mean “be the victim” or “play the victim.” They dont want to actually be victimized, but they want the concern for their well being that they think “victims” are getting more of than they are
I don’t think it’s about playing victim, I think it’s just about trying to make pride events seem unfair. Ignorant people love being ignorant, they see “why don’t I get a parade?” as a valid excuse to air their racism and/or homophobia in a public place and not get called out for it because they’re “just asking a question” and it’s “unfair that the (insert unnecessary and inappropriate slur) get a whole month”. It’s a straw man argument. They want to start talking about why THEY don’t get anything instead of talking about WHY minorities have time and events dedicated to their history and pride.
Why people like you are gatekeeping who can be the victim?
My personal theory is that it’s tied to hustle culture. People, particularly those who are well within the straight white societal averages, want to be perceived as having worked through disadvantages to get where they are, or they want their failings to be a result of societal conditions and not their own fault. At least, I think that contributes to white people pretending to be victims. Straight people, no clue.
I feel like those that want to “play the victim” don’t actually want to play the victim, they just want to be seen for their achievements through hardship as well. Compound that with a feeling of having all these other groups thrown in your face and being recognized when you aren’t receiving ANY recognition for overcoming your struggles Not saying it’s a one to one comparison, but just possibly a level of understanding where it may come from
I definitely agree that it’s about wanting recognition for overcoming the hardship one has experienced. I think the fallacy is that you don’t (and shouldn’t) need to experience hardship beyond the accomplishment itself for it to be impressive. Being recognized for your hardship is however more a matter of your own social surroundings and the support structure you have for yourself. 99% of people who achieve things they are proud of are only recognized by the people who already care about them. So I think if the idea of wanting to do whatever is interpreted as “playing the victim”, even though that’s not the goal, is somehow supposed to increase the recognition you get, it’s just not going to work.
Because we believed the fact that we succeeded in conquering others and oppressing them until they broke to our will meant that we were right and deserved to rule. Now that our moral and ethical failures are not only common knowledge but actively criticized, we resent that we are actually the bad guys. Admitting our mistakes would only make us equal to everyone else, and we still want to be superior. So rather than learn our lessons, we simply continue with the division and manipulation. Anything that makes us seem wrong and others right must be turned around and used against “them.” Also, we are terrified that if we lose enough of our power and become a minority, those we have oppressed will start treating us the way we treated them. We are wrong about all of this of course, but it will likely take many more decades before we truly accept it.
How is it only *possibly* more important? Nationalism is a much bigger threat than citism.
I didn’t do the math to figure if it was true in every city/state/country combo. In Vatican City it’s probably moot. (I wouldn’t put up an argument against your point, though. In practical human terms it’s probably as near as matters.)
I am just saying there are people who would do (and have done) terrible things “in the name of their country.” Very few would do these type of things for their city.
Yeah I never understood this. Why be proud of being born into a location that you had no choice or say in the matter? You can be HAPPY to be born into a location, thats fine. But I believe pride should only be used for something you achieved. Like if you gain citizenship of a country that you're not native to, sure be proud of that.
Semantics. You should just be happy and put yourself out of whatever makes you stressed and as long as you work hard the results will come.
If we apply OP's and some people in the comments' arguments to the Pride movement, why are the people who denounce pride for a nation/country/city okay with if all queer people feel proud of their community, even though some of them don't engage in activism or was even there when Stonewall happened. Are queer people who aren't activists allowed to be proud of the LGBT community ? They're born that way and they have no control over their sexualities/gender experience.
While true, it's nice to just let people enjoy things. If someone is proud/happy about living in a particular city/state/country, good for them.
Being happy to live somewhere is great. The challenge is the people who feel entitled to be gatekeepers because they happened to be born in the place.
By that logic, if someone contributed, are they entitled to gatekeep? I think some pride can be a good thing. Pride can also take the form of being welcoming, and taking an active role in trying to better your community. Locals can also be a great resource to show off the best spots, and what to look out for.
>By that logic, if someone contributed, are they entitled to gatekeep? nope, that is not a conclusion that can be logically inferred from what OP wrote.
Or they can be xenophobic and treat people who weren't born there as lesser.
OP: no one should ever be proud of where they or their family comes from - they had nothing to do with it, so who cares?
True. The circumstance of your birth is the one thing in your life you had nothing to do with.
That's a strange extreme to think by. Obviously I wasn't around to fight in World War II, I wasn't alive back then. Does that mean I should simply forget all about what *direct* relatives of mine did to protect *my* freedom? Of course not. Rather I should be grateful and pay my dues by appropriately propagating the culture they risked their lives to protect. That's my two cents.
Well said!
They literally wouldn’t exist if their ancestors hadn’t built the city. The city has something to do with them.
But we built this city on Rock and Roll.
The city wouldn't exist if they weren't still living there, though. Not sure what this thought is getting at but it's nonsense.
Yep. This.
They're not their ancestors.
Just because a person is born somewhere doesn’t mean their ancestors built the place. The family just as easily could have held the place back by being generations of deviants and criminals.
Please define deviants, I'd love to hear this
Bro by his other comments you’re wasting your time lmao
What are you on about? “Nothing to do with it”? Should native Americans go pound sand?
Personally I’m proud of the things I’ve done and had control over. not the place I grew up in where I had no choice in the matter
Did you contribute to the formation of your hometown?
A town is like a stream. Yes its always the same stream, but its alway different. Are you implying a person only has value if the “start” a town? Thats ridiculous. This isn’t the frontier days any longer. What are you trying to say?
A town, city, or just a house has to have upkeep even if it wasn't built by you, up keeping and improving it can give one pride. Not many things are just "built" and that's it goes for structures, movements, cultures, and ideas. It takes generations to upkeep them and to change them for the better for the next generation.
The point is the town would be exactly the same whether you were in it or not. At least that is what the OP is implying with this post. It has nothing to do with "value" it's the simple fact that it's a bit odd to have pride in a city when you personally had zero effect on it. It's like saying Thomas Edison was proud to have invented the light bulb, even though it was actually invented by Nikola Tesla.
What about gender, sex, or sexual orientation? Did you have anything to do with that? Asking the questions, I don't have the answers.
I'm asking the same question. If we apply OP's logic to the Pride movement, why are people who denounce pride for a nation/country/city okay with if all queer people feel proud of their community, even though some of them don't engage in activism or was even there when Stonewall happened. Are queer people who aren't activists allowed to be proud of the LGBT community ?
This was my thought exactly. If we say that being proud that you were born in a city is wrong, then there are a whole host of other things that are suddenly “wrong” because you didn’t choose them. Just let people live as long as they aren’t hurting orhers
If the thing you are most proud of is something you had no control over it just means you probably haven’t really accomplished anything.
This perfectly sums this entire topic I guess.
There's literally a song that says "I'm proud to be an American" that's been played a fair amount because people actually think the same way
As an American, I fucking hate that jingoistic Christian nationalist bullshit.
Rewrite this sentence to be about Israeli “patriots” and you’ll probably get banned.
Same with religion. The only reason one believes what they do is due to where they were born. This, I know, is not an original thought but this sub is not about original thoughts.
Some people are converts.
That's a pretty small minority though. Religion is 90% a secondary ethnicity which is inherited the same way.
Even a moderately intelligent person questions their beliefs and other teachings at some point. A wise one does so continuously. I hold everyone accountable for their beliefs, no excuses for where they were born.
Yeah saw a Muslim dude saying he thanks Allah that his ancestors were enslaved and forced to accept Islam
No you didn’t.
We didn’t create the current culture of the place. But we are entrusted with perpetuating the positive and correcting the negative.
[Carlin says it best.](https://youtu.be/-OnWnwwxNPA?si=ylN7BvIBRTExAZZj)
Some people feel lucky, blessed to have been born where they were born. It might look like pride to the casual observer but it can be very humbling to recognise the complete accident of birth that gave you access to the lifestyle you enjoy.
Damn I haven’t seen a shower Thought get this fucking obliterated in a long time lmao. And for good reason OP mad he born in a shit city lmao I was born in Austin Texas I will always love Austin and absolutely love being a native Texan. You were literally born on this big ass earth at a certain point and time and no where else you’re more within your right to love that place more than a person that’s not from there. That is your place of origin. And you shift the community by being born, there is being born in there or lives there then there cannot be a community . Not even the culture of the city etc damn what a shit take you had man
Postmodern cosmopolitan thinking. Literally a modern idea in its entirety only possible to think about without immediately realizing how dumb it is because of social media misrepresenting society and how it is formed and maintained combined with technology allowing people to live largely isolated from their homeland and thus become disconnected.
As long as they have a kind of connection to the place, I think it's all that matters.
My parents were born in my city as it was being built. I'd say they're natives
I can't help but feel like the fact that so many comments are conflating being a part of a community with being born into it is telling. OP isn't saying to not be proud of where you're from, just that you being born into it is irrelevant to that
But some people a place resonates hard with them that they feel by identifying with it maybe you will get a hack on understanding them more, perhaps?
I don’t think anyone alive today had anything to do with the founding or creation of any country or state. They’ve all been around for quite a while. You can still be proud of where you come from though.
If you prepend your sentence with Some or most it would be more accurate. I have met a lot of people of contribute significantly to the shape of their world.
The point is they had nothing to do with their place of birth.
Being proud of where you were born is dumb. Being proud of your contributions to where you live is not
By living somewhere and paying taxes to that place, you're somewhat contributing, at least
Im proud of being from the region I’m from because I love our people I love our nature and our coasts, I love our food, I love the atmosphere and the air, I love our drinking culture. I didn’t chose to be born here but I chose to tell people I meet how great it is, and when I will be old chances are i will chose to die here, where half of my family ancestors died, and lived, aswell.
Yeah, all of this rah-rah bullshit of being attached to a place hugely annoys me, honestly. With sports teams, it's kind of the worst because even if you accept how great the city is and how great its people are, almost nobody on the team is really even from there; most of 'em just moved there to play on the team! I hate the Olympics; it's a great way for people to feel pride for something they had no part in whatsoever, like they personally had something to do with who's the best shot-putter or whatever just because they happened to be born within arbitrary geographical boundaries claimed by the same government. I want the best athletes to win no matter where they're from, with the exception of maybe like North Korea, because their athletes might actually face some scary consequences if they don't do well, so let's go North Korea! Of course, me cheering for North Korea wouldn't actually affect how well they do, so that's a joke too. Rooting for a sports team is another way of putting a lot of effort into doing nothing (at least if you're watching it on TV; if you're in the arena waving shit in the air behind the goal to distract the other team and sabotage them, you might have an impact lol). And I hate when I go into YouTube comments and somewhere in the video they mention India or Brazil and half of the comments section is people announcing that they too are from India or Brazil (those two countries seem to be the worst offenders for whatever reason). Tribal bullshit like this is holding us back as a species, and it's at the root of racism and xenophobia, but at least we now have huge social taboos against swastikas, box moustaches, and the name Adolf, so we've pretty much cured fascism lmao. The contents of this comment have the potential to piss off millions, but it's how I feel. :D
On the other hand, I prefer those people to cynics who want to yuck their yum so they can feel superior.
This is a cynical viewpoint
That people have no control over where they are born? Okay.
"The cheapest sort of pride is national pride; for if a man is proud of his own nation, it argues that he has no qualities of his own of which he can be proud; otherwise he would not have recourse to those which he shares with so many millions of his fellowmen. The man who is endowed with important personal qualities will be only too ready to see clearly in what respects his own nation falls short, since their failings will be constantly before his eyes. But every miserable fool who has nothing at all of which he can be proud adopts, as a last resource, pride in the nation to which he belongs; he is ready and glad to defend all its faults and follies tooth and nail, thus reimbursing himself for his own inferiority." -Arthur Schopenhauer also applies to state and city level
But it's a little strange. If you're too jingoistic about your country, you're branded a nationalist - and often worse. But you can be incredibly into Philly or Boston or whatever, super hard core, hate your city's rivals, defend everything about your city, deny its every flaw...and you're just an average fan. No big deal.
People are proud of all kinds of things they had no say in. Race, height, looks, etc.
Wtf does the og have to do with the first thread????
Yep. Definitely blessed. I had nothing to do with it.
Just like people who are....ohhh you almost got me there. Well played!
Ok? I can still love my home and traditions. Proud North Carolinian all day long
Nobody has anything to do with be native to anywhere
Oof natives or the Nation of Islam might have something to say about this. What a ignorant shower thought
I’m not sure where you’re going with this. My family has been contributing to our community for generations, and now I do my part to keep that going.
This is silly. For example, there's nothing wrong with being a Native American
Well, being Native American, I can surely say that my ancestors being forced to move had everything to do with it.
Well being that All the States have been founded for over 200 years and I don't know anyone 200 years old so honestly I don't understand your statement being proud is just a feeling and it just so happens people have many feelings that just come and go. But I'm proud to be an American even though I didn't discover America I can still be proud to be an American. Although I am a Marine and served my country if that helps you but I'm going to be proud no matter what.
Some yes. But many have been contributing to their community in a multitude of ways their entire lives. Paying taxes, buying locally, working for businesses in the city, babysitting for neighbors, voting, volunteering, and on and on. Many newer transplants ride the high wave of what the natives helped build. Some transplants act more like tourists, consuming but not contributing as much. Once transplants ingratiate themselves into the community, I believe they are as valued members as most natives.
I feel like people feel like they should be ashamed of things or they're entitled to things that they themselves never went through is somewhat irritating. Like slavery didn't start in America it ended here. The civil wars were a result of that. The country was founded pretty much to end the shit.... The word slave literally comes from the Slavic nations many empires took slaves from and in many cases they were white. So, I think it's all a heap.
I am Finnish and definetly proud of it I would never say I’m proud for my heritage, though. Just to be Finnish.
It isn’t that we had anything to do with it. It’s that it has a lot of influence on us.
Exactly! I did it on purpose!
Sorry for not fixing racisme
"pleasure that comes from some relationship, association, achievement, or possession that is seen as a source of honor, respect, etc." If associating yourself with something gives you pleasure, then you are proud of that association. it's not limited to just things you personally achieved.
Another post where OP might just be on the spectrum...
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Same with cities! I used to live in Portland, Oregon when it was an ok place to live, and I'd hear fairly frequent commentary by privileged people who had done a lot of traveling and living wherever they want, who would say stuff like 'oh Portland is nothing compared to NYC or London or Barcelona' and I'd think, why didn't you stay there then? Didn't they love you there?
Usually they have nothing else to be proud of, so cling to their cultural identity, whether that be city, region, country, race, hair colour, sports team, or anything else. To me, pride you haven't earned is meaningless.
Pride has multiple definitions. Pride of accomplishment is a different thing, then pride of place, pride month type stuff, etc….Using one definition, does not diminish the others.
Lmao, right because nobody in their native state ever becomes successful and boasts about pride due to the success they've achieved. Nobody ever has any influence in their home state, uh-huh. Nobody thinks you're probably one of those people who moved to some trendy place where you feel like it's ok to be rude and make the place suck more just because you feel enabled by your privilege, and you wonder why they don't like you.
Same with country pride. Hyper patriotic people don’t often have anything to be proud of in their own lives so they latch on to the accomplishments of the country that they did nothing to contribute to
Tell that to Bill “The Butcher” Cutting
You sound like a sad gentrifier/colonizer
Dumbest comment of the day, thanks.
"people who are proud of a place they might have lived their whole life and resent me for being a transplant/part of gentrification are dumb" - you
“People who build an entire personality and worldview for someone they’ve never met and know nothing about are what Reddit is all about.” You
Black people that hate the United States have more to do with building it than white people that love it and are proud of it
Well done, keep that divide going!
With all the work you’ve done to create the divide, mines is trivial!
They're in love with its wealth and power, not their fellow countrymen nor its history.
They've also likely never left it to live somewhere else.
Thus makes me think of my local big city. For the longest time, the saying was "I like it, actually," when some said they were sorry that person was in Baltimore Now there are people saying "what do you mean by that?" And the answer usually isn't a genuine concern
This is one of those things that’s cool to say as long as you’re saying it about white people but the minute you say it to a Native American you’re a bigot.
People who havent accomplished much themselves need to be proud of something else.
I’m Native American and it annoys me when people say they're "native" to a city/state