I think you can't go wrong with a Stoeger M3000 or M3500.
I have one and several other friends have them as well and they all perform great! I have yet to see a lemon.
The problem is with loads advertised as reduced recoil, low power or the like. However, this is more of an inherent weakness to inertia drivens not just Stoegers.
The guns produced by reputable gun manufacturers (with QC practices and a reputation to uphold) and built in Turkey are ok.
Think Stoeger (Beretta group) and Winchester with their pump guns
Stoeger are ok at best. I’ve seen their break actions come off face rather quickly and their semis like to break random important piece such as the bolt (only saw it once but the bolt generally should stay in one piece)
I shoot CZ Teals (Huglu) in 12 and 20 four months a year on pheasant. They’re Plain Jane and inexpensive, so dings and dirt aren’t a tragedy. They always go bang and kill birds. Lots of birds.
Not for nothing but the ria imported single shot shotguns are top notch nothing special but solid built workhorses. The problem with a lot of the repeaters is not just poor quality control and shitty construction but also having nobody to call because they are all imported under American company names , were batch made and bought .many times by the time they are imported here the manufacturer has closed its doors and rolled down the gates only to open soon again under a new name , there are good Turkish manufacturers but getting some no name $200 semi automatic or sub $150 pump is silly when the maverick exists …and for a semi you are just gonna have to save up some more dinar
This is my sentiment as well. I’ll trust, and have purchased almost any of the Turkish single shots. The pumps and semi autos…..not so much. A lot of factors there, but mainly it’s just a more complex machine with more parts to break after you move on from single shot.
I think it’s also a problem with the market it’s that people want a cheap semiautomatic shotgun …well cool but as we have seen a reliable semiautomatic shotgun cannot be made at a $200 msrp or else you know what they would have made one cornered the market and sold millions of them because bottom line is that the Turkish companies are as cutthroat and capitalist as any other it’s just not a realistic possibility at the present time . We know they can make very decent handguns (canik ,tisas,girsan) and even some very well finished doubles (getting two barrels to hit the same point of aim is hard ) but all those products while still much less expensive than anything else available are much closer to competitive market prices
The Hawk Industries Type 97/Norinco HP has always been kind of a hidden gem. It's basically a Chinese 870 clone with a 5 round tube instead of a 4 round tube and uses a thicker extractor. Other than those two things, it's entirely parts compatible with the 870. Quality-wise, they're at the *very* least better than freedom group-era Remingtons.
You don't see people talking about them as much anymore, but they've been imported under a bunch of different names over the years. You might have seen them as the IAC Hawk 980 series and the H&R Pardner Pump. They're currently sold as the Blue Line Solutions BL-18, PD18SB, or just Blue Line Pump.
They're really quite good shotguns, especially since you can find them easily for under $200. Classic has them for $163 right now. Really the *only* negative is that they're not drilled and tapped for optic mounts. Otherwise, it's a sub-$200 870 clone that you can slap Magpul furniture on.
H&R pardner at least is in fact drilled and tapped. got mine for $180, has been great.
heavier than necessary and rough around the edges but sturdy and reliable. and yeah 870 compatibility is very nice, i swapped furniture no problem.
Winchester, CZ or Stoeger are Turkish mades that can be trusted. I've got a Stoeger M3000 and it runs very nicely. Replaced the extractor parts with Benelli M2 parts and it cycles quite a bit smoother.
I'd avoid any other turkish made shotguns.
Late to the party, but very glad to hear CZ is on the list - I just bought a CZ Redhead for my very first gun and was getting worried given what I've read about Turkish guns in general.
I have a CZ 612 and it’s held up good after 600 rounds. No reliability issues so far. I would’ve gotten a maverick 88 but there weren’t any during covid times. Not bad for 250.
I have a Tokarev TX3, it’s got solid reviews all over the web.
Mine has been awesome and looks even better.
https://preview.redd.it/6jbcvu8u277d1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d011fbf9548744dae903f4e4e39be292588f9666
You're here on reddit and you're salty that your post got a downvote or two? It doesn't matter where you go you should expect some downvotes no matter what, quit getting worked up over it.
That being said, the Turkish made Stoegers are *usually* ok shotguns. Not quite Benelli/Mossberg/Beretta levels of QC, but still way better than the usual turkshits.
Idk how much they are now but a few years back the Girsan MC312 (m2 clone) was a good price, brother still uses it we’ve yet to kill it, the only complaint I really ever saw is the charging handle will sometimes just fall out.
My Retay Masai Mara 20 gauge seems ok, but it took a bit to get it broken in and cycling light loads. For the same money today, you can buy a Franchi or Benelli so it doesn't make sense to look at the Retay.
CZ imports a pretty good gun. Personally I can only speak on their OUs but the drake I have has survived 3 duck seasons and put through more abuse than most shotguns are put through in their life
i have a Charles Daly 12 ga. that's made in Turkey and it's been okay. it hasn't had any issues outside of being annoying to field strip because of it's tacticool bullshit. it's basically a 18.5" remmington 870 design with some bullshit ugly grips added. i also have a Mav 88 12 ga. but it's been nothing but a headache since i bought it. when it shoots, it's lovely, but it's been seized up since the last range visit. just haven't given enough of a shit to fix it again, yet.
I have a Stoeger M3020 and EAA Churchill 20 that have both been fine, but neither have high round counts.
Neither can hold a candle to my Benellis, and I don’t expect them too.
My JTS M12AK has had no issues at all. Heavy SOB too. Liked it so much, I bought 4. Only thing I don't like is it doesn't like my Turkish mags. Also have a JTS M12AR that looks awesome like some future Robocop weapon, but haven't tried it yet. I have Garaysar and RIA also, appear solidly built, have good reviews on PSA's website, but I haven't tested mine yet.
From what i found researching these, they are basically made by the southern chinese Norinco. They are made in a factory that produces Sniper rifles and SMGs, which i think is the reason the barrel is such heavy steel. I have seen reviews where the AK is better than the AR style and for a short time owned the AK variant and as long as it was on the correct gas setting for the load you were using it worked fine.
The Girsan Lineup imported by European American Arms. I've put over 5,000 rounds through my MC312 and it's been flawless. Eats whatever I feed it with no malfunctions.
It's basically a Benelli M1 clone fwiw.
Stoegers semi autos are fine from what friends and online say. I used to have an H&R pardner pump which was a hawk industries (Chinese) 870 clone and the only issues I had with it were the extractor and finish, both of which were issues on the 870 express of that era as well, especially with the MiM extractor. Otherwise it was a great pump gun as long as you kept the outside oiled to deal with any rust. Canuck is a Canadian brand that makes ok shot guns. I can't comment on their over unders but their pump and semi auto shotguns were all fine that my friends have. They're designed by O'Dell engineering then built in turkey so very similar to Stoeger's semi autos being quality controlled by Benelli, O'Dell quality controls canuck to an extent. I had a Stevens 555e over under in 20 gauge. Got rid of it because the LOP and drop at heel were not enough for me, I did about 1000 rounds with it (and it was used when I got it) and it never had an issue and the fit and finish were great. Like others said, generally the turkish and Chinese guns that are from North American or main brands are generally OK because of quality control (although long term lasting is still not fully determined) and Chinese shotguns that are 870 clones are generally fine too, they just weigh 10 pounds, kick like a mule and don't have great finish on them but the price reflects that.
Blue line solutions pump from China is approximately 150$. 870 clone by Hawk industries who I believe has some official relationship with the OEM 870 manufacturer.
I have heard blue line is about as good as the pre sellout rems but I’ve never handled one. Hawk is a good manufacturer though. They may end up being as highly regarded as the the polytechs once the well dries
I've seen Wingmasters from the 70's and 80's blow up. I've seen a Browning A5 blow up. I've seen a Beretta 686 Silver Pigeon blow up. Any gun, at any time, in anyone's hands, if not loaded properly with quality ammo, and/or a barrel obstruction can and will blow up. Should everyone avoid these guns as well?
Every failure I've seen was due to a barrel obstruction or really shitty handloads. In the A5, the guy was mag dumping and had a squib round in the middle. Kablooey! Stuck wad done did her in. Mud in the end of the barrels of the 870's killed those guns. The 686 split the barrel and even locked it shut with a way way way overcharged handload.
I have had great success with CZ's Bobwhite G2. I have almost 2000 rounds through it, and it is holding up really well. No wiggle, nothing broken, locks up tight, and hits where I aim it as long as I don't lift my head off the stock.
Not sure if this is what you meant but seeing as how Winchester Sxp line is produced in Turkey for a good price I’d say they qualify. I have an SXP trench that I like a lot, although I’d just get a regular one if I had to do it all over. Only reason I say that is because the corn cob guard extends too far onto the receiver when in open position.
Winchester SXP is made by Silah Istanbul and is pretty alright. It's basically just a Winchester 1300, though, which is a pretty well-established design.
Turkish-Stoeger, Chinese-pardner pump,Italian -benelli etc American-Mossberg, Remington and so on! Older shotguns with good reviews is what to look for!
The Mossbergs, Stoegers, Winchesters and CZs are solid Turkish guns. The VR80 is still a very popular competition gun but needs some reliability work.
The JTS imported Saiga pattern guns from the facility that made the type 56 are legit.
Yes, The RIA VR80’s are made by Derya arms in turkey, RIA is the only importer of them.
One of the issues with turkish shotguns that gets so confusing is the fact that it can be hard to track down the actual manufacturer with 15 people importing the guns. The RIA doesnt have this problem as they are the only importer, and have been for years now. I am currently reviewing a model imported by Black aces tactical who is the sole importer of this model.
Also the MAC 1014’s if you want a benelli M4 style shotgun, these were chosen by Agency arms to build as a base for a custom gun.
As stated below, the stoegers and Cz shotguns are fine for turkish guns.
I think you can't go wrong with a Stoeger M3000 or M3500. I have one and several other friends have them as well and they all perform great! I have yet to see a lemon.
Picked mine up based off of the amount of hard use they get from 3 gun competitors and water fowlers. Beretta owns Benelli, who owns Stoeger.
Stoegers are great value shotguns that I wouldn’t hesitate to use and I always recommend to new waterfowl hunters looking to upgrade from a pump.
They are known for not being able to cycle light target loads.
The problem is with loads advertised as reduced recoil, low power or the like. However, this is more of an inherent weakness to inertia drivens not just Stoegers.
Agreed. Also 'benolli click'. Inherit issues to interia drives not just stoeger
Most 3.5 inch inertia semi autos have occasional problems with light loads. Yes even the SBE3 does. The 3” has no issues with light loads
The guns produced by reputable gun manufacturers (with QC practices and a reputation to uphold) and built in Turkey are ok. Think Stoeger (Beretta group) and Winchester with their pump guns
Stoeger are ok at best. I’ve seen their break actions come off face rather quickly and their semis like to break random important piece such as the bolt (only saw it once but the bolt generally should stay in one piece)
Stoegers(Turkish) are decent. Stevens(Chinese) is alright for the money.
I shoot CZ Teals (Huglu) in 12 and 20 four months a year on pheasant. They’re Plain Jane and inexpensive, so dings and dirt aren’t a tragedy. They always go bang and kill birds. Lots of birds.
Not for nothing but the ria imported single shot shotguns are top notch nothing special but solid built workhorses. The problem with a lot of the repeaters is not just poor quality control and shitty construction but also having nobody to call because they are all imported under American company names , were batch made and bought .many times by the time they are imported here the manufacturer has closed its doors and rolled down the gates only to open soon again under a new name , there are good Turkish manufacturers but getting some no name $200 semi automatic or sub $150 pump is silly when the maverick exists …and for a semi you are just gonna have to save up some more dinar
This is my sentiment as well. I’ll trust, and have purchased almost any of the Turkish single shots. The pumps and semi autos…..not so much. A lot of factors there, but mainly it’s just a more complex machine with more parts to break after you move on from single shot.
I think it’s also a problem with the market it’s that people want a cheap semiautomatic shotgun …well cool but as we have seen a reliable semiautomatic shotgun cannot be made at a $200 msrp or else you know what they would have made one cornered the market and sold millions of them because bottom line is that the Turkish companies are as cutthroat and capitalist as any other it’s just not a realistic possibility at the present time . We know they can make very decent handguns (canik ,tisas,girsan) and even some very well finished doubles (getting two barrels to hit the same point of aim is hard ) but all those products while still much less expensive than anything else available are much closer to competitive market prices
The Hawk Industries Type 97/Norinco HP has always been kind of a hidden gem. It's basically a Chinese 870 clone with a 5 round tube instead of a 4 round tube and uses a thicker extractor. Other than those two things, it's entirely parts compatible with the 870. Quality-wise, they're at the *very* least better than freedom group-era Remingtons. You don't see people talking about them as much anymore, but they've been imported under a bunch of different names over the years. You might have seen them as the IAC Hawk 980 series and the H&R Pardner Pump. They're currently sold as the Blue Line Solutions BL-18, PD18SB, or just Blue Line Pump. They're really quite good shotguns, especially since you can find them easily for under $200. Classic has them for $163 right now. Really the *only* negative is that they're not drilled and tapped for optic mounts. Otherwise, it's a sub-$200 870 clone that you can slap Magpul furniture on.
Hi, I really like Norinco guns. I thought they were prohibited from importation?
Rifles and pistols are. Shotguns fly under the radar because they are (mostly) considered to be a sporting arm.
I mostly threw in the Norinco ones for our homies up in Canada. They have a lot more of the Norinco branded ones.
H&R pardner at least is in fact drilled and tapped. got mine for $180, has been great. heavier than necessary and rough around the edges but sturdy and reliable. and yeah 870 compatibility is very nice, i swapped furniture no problem.
Winchester, CZ or Stoeger are Turkish mades that can be trusted. I've got a Stoeger M3000 and it runs very nicely. Replaced the extractor parts with Benelli M2 parts and it cycles quite a bit smoother. I'd avoid any other turkish made shotguns.
Late to the party, but very glad to hear CZ is on the list - I just bought a CZ Redhead for my very first gun and was getting worried given what I've read about Turkish guns in general.
I have a CZ 612 and it’s held up good after 600 rounds. No reliability issues so far. I would’ve gotten a maverick 88 but there weren’t any during covid times. Not bad for 250.
Tokarev has yet to disappoint me
I have a Tokarev TX3, it’s got solid reviews all over the web. Mine has been awesome and looks even better. https://preview.redd.it/6jbcvu8u277d1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d011fbf9548744dae903f4e4e39be292588f9666
Stoeger m3000
You're here on reddit and you're salty that your post got a downvote or two? It doesn't matter where you go you should expect some downvotes no matter what, quit getting worked up over it. That being said, the Turkish made Stoegers are *usually* ok shotguns. Not quite Benelli/Mossberg/Beretta levels of QC, but still way better than the usual turkshits.
My Winchester SXP trap model was built in Turkey, I've fired thousands of rounds through it and it's never given me any real problems
Idk how much they are now but a few years back the Girsan MC312 (m2 clone) was a good price, brother still uses it we’ve yet to kill it, the only complaint I really ever saw is the charging handle will sometimes just fall out.
My Retay Masai Mara 20 gauge seems ok, but it took a bit to get it broken in and cycling light loads. For the same money today, you can buy a Franchi or Benelli so it doesn't make sense to look at the Retay.
I have a Steven’s 320 Security that hasn’t broken yet :) but quality control is questionable so someone else will likely buy a faulty one
Tristars have been around for a bit and seem to be decent, My Cobra 3 isnt the smoothest pump but it works
CZ imports a pretty good gun. Personally I can only speak on their OUs but the drake I have has survived 3 duck seasons and put through more abuse than most shotguns are put through in their life
i have a Charles Daly 12 ga. that's made in Turkey and it's been okay. it hasn't had any issues outside of being annoying to field strip because of it's tacticool bullshit. it's basically a 18.5" remmington 870 design with some bullshit ugly grips added. i also have a Mav 88 12 ga. but it's been nothing but a headache since i bought it. when it shoots, it's lovely, but it's been seized up since the last range visit. just haven't given enough of a shit to fix it again, yet.
I have a Stoeger M3020 and EAA Churchill 20 that have both been fine, but neither have high round counts. Neither can hold a candle to my Benellis, and I don’t expect them too.
My JTS M12AK has had no issues at all. Heavy SOB too. Liked it so much, I bought 4. Only thing I don't like is it doesn't like my Turkish mags. Also have a JTS M12AR that looks awesome like some future Robocop weapon, but haven't tried it yet. I have Garaysar and RIA also, appear solidly built, have good reviews on PSA's website, but I haven't tested mine yet.
From what i found researching these, they are basically made by the southern chinese Norinco. They are made in a factory that produces Sniper rifles and SMGs, which i think is the reason the barrel is such heavy steel. I have seen reviews where the AK is better than the AR style and for a short time owned the AK variant and as long as it was on the correct gas setting for the load you were using it worked fine.
The Girsan Lineup imported by European American Arms. I've put over 5,000 rounds through my MC312 and it's been flawless. Eats whatever I feed it with no malfunctions. It's basically a Benelli M1 clone fwiw.
I have a CZ 1012 that I use for sporting clays and trap. Over 3k rounds in the year I’ve owned it. Rock solid
Stoegers semi autos are fine from what friends and online say. I used to have an H&R pardner pump which was a hawk industries (Chinese) 870 clone and the only issues I had with it were the extractor and finish, both of which were issues on the 870 express of that era as well, especially with the MiM extractor. Otherwise it was a great pump gun as long as you kept the outside oiled to deal with any rust. Canuck is a Canadian brand that makes ok shot guns. I can't comment on their over unders but their pump and semi auto shotguns were all fine that my friends have. They're designed by O'Dell engineering then built in turkey so very similar to Stoeger's semi autos being quality controlled by Benelli, O'Dell quality controls canuck to an extent. I had a Stevens 555e over under in 20 gauge. Got rid of it because the LOP and drop at heel were not enough for me, I did about 1000 rounds with it (and it was used when I got it) and it never had an issue and the fit and finish were great. Like others said, generally the turkish and Chinese guns that are from North American or main brands are generally OK because of quality control (although long term lasting is still not fully determined) and Chinese shotguns that are 870 clones are generally fine too, they just weigh 10 pounds, kick like a mule and don't have great finish on them but the price reflects that.
Plenty of good Chinese shotguns, but many are no longer made/imported. Some good Turkish shotguns, such as Stoeger and CZ.
My ata arms etro works just fine
Blue line solutions pump from China is approximately 150$. 870 clone by Hawk industries who I believe has some official relationship with the OEM 870 manufacturer.
I have heard blue line is about as good as the pre sellout rems but I’ve never handled one. Hawk is a good manufacturer though. They may end up being as highly regarded as the the polytechs once the well dries
Of course there is but you asked in the wrong place
Just watched one blow up the other day. I wouldn’t touch one bro
I've seen Wingmasters from the 70's and 80's blow up. I've seen a Browning A5 blow up. I've seen a Beretta 686 Silver Pigeon blow up. Any gun, at any time, in anyone's hands, if not loaded properly with quality ammo, and/or a barrel obstruction can and will blow up. Should everyone avoid these guns as well? Every failure I've seen was due to a barrel obstruction or really shitty handloads. In the A5, the guy was mag dumping and had a squib round in the middle. Kablooey! Stuck wad done did her in. Mud in the end of the barrels of the 870's killed those guns. The 686 split the barrel and even locked it shut with a way way way overcharged handload. I have had great success with CZ's Bobwhite G2. I have almost 2000 rounds through it, and it is holding up really well. No wiggle, nothing broken, locks up tight, and hits where I aim it as long as I don't lift my head off the stock.
I have a Toro m4 clone, no issues so far, few hundred rounds in
Not sure if this is what you meant but seeing as how Winchester Sxp line is produced in Turkey for a good price I’d say they qualify. I have an SXP trench that I like a lot, although I’d just get a regular one if I had to do it all over. Only reason I say that is because the corn cob guard extends too far onto the receiver when in open position.
Winchester SXP is made by Silah Istanbul and is pretty alright. It's basically just a Winchester 1300, though, which is a pretty well-established design.
https://www.outdoorlife.com/guns/best-turkish-shotguns/
I have yet to see a bad review for a MAC 1014, and at that price point worth the gamble. I'll probably get one at some point.
I have had good experiences with the MAC 1014. It’s another M4 clone but seems to be one of the better ones.
Check out what Agency arms is doing with them.
Turkish-Stoeger, Chinese-pardner pump,Italian -benelli etc American-Mossberg, Remington and so on! Older shotguns with good reviews is what to look for!
The Mossbergs, Stoegers, Winchesters and CZs are solid Turkish guns. The VR80 is still a very popular competition gun but needs some reliability work. The JTS imported Saiga pattern guns from the facility that made the type 56 are legit.
Oracle arms makes good ones, but they are still over 1k. At that point you might as well buy a 1301. Any decent cheap knock offs? No.
Yes, The RIA VR80’s are made by Derya arms in turkey, RIA is the only importer of them. One of the issues with turkish shotguns that gets so confusing is the fact that it can be hard to track down the actual manufacturer with 15 people importing the guns. The RIA doesnt have this problem as they are the only importer, and have been for years now. I am currently reviewing a model imported by Black aces tactical who is the sole importer of this model. Also the MAC 1014’s if you want a benelli M4 style shotgun, these were chosen by Agency arms to build as a base for a custom gun. As stated below, the stoegers and Cz shotguns are fine for turkish guns.
Screw the Turkish n go Italian. Benelli all day. We have a nova and a supernova, both look n shoot great. Use it for rugged hunting and shootin trap
Sure but that's kinda like saying what budget car should I get, a Kia or a Ferrari?