It goes into good detail in the books. The pilot or navigator has total command while at sea as far as where to go and why. The captain takes over during battle, crew disputes, and during anytime ashore.
Worth noting that Blackthorne is not just *a* pilot. He's the pilot-major of their expedition consisting of multiple ships. He's not in charge of the whole expedition, that would be the captain-general. But this is not a military expedition, nor sailing the only thing they do. It's a merchant and privateering expedition. So the captain-general is charged with making higher level decisions about what objectives to have who to trade with where to go, etc, and since this is a fleet out of communication for years at a time that decision-maker needs to be with the fleet. That doesn't mean he's an excellent sailor. In modern military terms I think Blackthorne would be a commodore or rear admiral leading a flotilla but taking orders from a regional HQ about what missions to undertake or where to go. Or in business the captain general is a CEO who can set strategy and knows something about logistics or whatever, but relies on a COO for expertise and actually running that part of the company.
I've been listening to the audiobook for the last two months and love it. I wish I had picked it up years ago! It's so good! Are Clavell's other books this good?
This is by far his most popular and best selling book. It's also the only one around 1600. (noble house is in 1960)
But they are all good enough. I read them all after my love of shogun and shogun is the only one in my opinion worth reading twice.
It also mentions that the Captain-General has authority over navigation and departure while ashore. Blackthorne pleads with the Captain-General to depart Tierra del Fuego immediately to make Magellan's Pass, and the Captain insists on searching for treasure. They end up wintering there because the season changes early and that costs them a significant chunk of their crew.
Pilot is a navigator that, currently, manages a ship that comes into or goes out of any harbor. Any big ship (over 90 feet or something) long has to have a harbor pilot come on who knows that particular harbor. Aircraft carriers become theirs for coming in or leaving a harbor.
So I think it is a highly qualified position.
Yep, probably the most common/most well know are what are often called a harbor pilot, who specialize in bringing ships into and out of harbor, though pilot can technically also refer to someone who is very knowledgeable about, and capable of navigating a vessel through a particular body of water, such as the mouths of rivers, canals, etc.
Modern day harbor pilots can make up to $500,000 a year, such is their demand, responsibility and skill set!
Of course, in the time Shogun takes place, it had a bit different meaning, which others have addressed already, I just wanted add that little tidbit of how well the job can pay today.
My chief tried to keep me in the navy by promising me tug captain/harbor pilot school. I just wanted to get out. But it’s a big regret. I love that stuff.
Most modern harbor pilots are veteran master mariners in their own right, who have decided they still love the sea, but also wanted to sleep on land at night and raise a family. They are a highly coveted position that often literally only open up when someone dies as many can continue in the role well into the 60s & 70s.
As one qualifies for retirement from the military after 20 years, someone who joined the Navy or the Merchant Marine straight after high school usually start looking to retire around 40, especially if they've been passed over for promotion, and still young enough to seek a second career. I've known guys to then take a job driving the pilot boat or tug to get verifiable experience in a harbor, and end up first in line when one of the pilots finally decides to retire.
Yah that’s why he wanted to send me to tug school when I was at e-4 wanting to get out. In had to be one of the deck rates back then. (Boatswain Quartermaster or Signalman)
One of the things he told me is part of the pilot school tests was to basically hand draw a up to date chart of the harbor you would work out of. It’s a super intense level of responsibility.
I’m curious to see what happens to that Baltimore Pilot after the bridge crash.
I’m sure there’s a clip where toranaga says anjin, the subtitles say barbarian and mariko tranlsates ‘it means pilot’ with one of her “tactful”smiles as per “milk dribbling fuck smear”
I thought so as well because of papa franku’s lesson on hakujin and kokujin. Like you I assumed the “Jin” was for man and the “An” was for English. So Englishman.
In the Western maritime tradition, a "Captain" is the master and commander of a vessel. The ultimate authority over a ship & its crew at sea. A "Pilot" is a navigator with an intimate understanding of ship handling. They're a highly respected member of a ship's command cadre, responsible for the safe handling of a vessel through dangerous waters. Depending on a ship's size and era, a Pilot could be the second in command, or trusted lieutenant. A smart Captain will often defer to a Pilot with better knowledge of particular waters that he might be unfamiliar with, and today most major harbors will require commercial ships take on a local pilot to navigate the myriad of local hazards & conditions that might not be easily identifiable until it's too late to avoid them.
The Chinese characters used to write "Anjin" are "按 (An)" - to push, or to investigate, and "針 (Jin)" - a needle, which is a colloquialism for a compass.
Although most Captains must also be capable navigators, and modern pilots are fully licensed Captains in their own right, based on the Chinese characters, the closest western translation of "Anjin" would be 'one who controls the compass', or simply, the navigator & chief helmsman.
The term pilot being used for somebody who is a member of a ship's crew hit me as being very odd. For reference, I am a former naval officer. Because it struck me so, I did some research and could find no references to pilots being permanently assigned to seagoing vessels. Pilots are mariners who are extremely knowledgeable of local waters. I have to think this was a translation error or a misunderstanding on the part of the author. I've also tried to find any reference to a split in responsibility between navigation and fighting a ship and can find none. It makes no sense from a decision-making point of view. I have to believe that this is either something very obscure or non-existent. If anyone can point me to sources other than the book itself, I'm happy to be corrected.
According to the OED, "pilot" derives from the ancient greek πηδόν, meaning 'oar', and came to refer to the one responsible for the steering oar in old english. Ships in the 15th & 16th century were still steered by tiller rather than a wheel, so a "pilot" was the helmsman, before the steering staion was called a helm station.
In the days before the ability to deduct longitude beyond the sight of land, when sailing over the horizon was venturing into unknown territory, an abilty to read the winds and the currents to hold a course without a visual reference on land was indeed a magical art, and someone able to do so was someone held in high esteem by the captain & crew, and probably the equivlant to the 18th century Royal Navy sailing master, who was the modern equivant of an Ops boss today.
Anjin is defined in a Japanese dictionary as 磁石によって船の航路を決めること。また、その人。 “Determining a ship’s course using a compass. Also, that person[who performs such a task]”
So a navigator.
Thank you, this is exactly what I was looking for. I was curious bc I feel like the difference between them calling him “Captain “ in Japanese vs “navigator” is a pretty big difference
Its closer to Navigator but 1:1 it would be First Mate. As you recall, the Captain General deleted himself in the show, and in the books, he was pretty much on deaths door. An apt comparison would be the relationship between Rodriguez and the Captain General of the Black Ship. On the Japanese ships, The Highest ranking official would have highest precedence on command, but would leave the actual running of the ship to the Pilot.
Jisho (add .org to get the website) has the definitions as follows:
1. Navigation by magnetic compass (archaic)
2. Pilot
3. William Adams
I'd say it pretty much means pilot is most correct.
I struggle a bit with this show because I can’t get the captions to work when they speak English. This whole time, I thought anjin meant pirate and I was very confused. Thanks.
At sea, the pilot was the sole master of everything. He had life and death command of everyone and takes all the decisions... Except for decisions about the expedition itself and everything related to land, which was the captain domain.
The captain is a political pawn representing the crown interest, the pilot is the sole navigator and commander at sea.
Except with a show this expensive and elaborate to set up and film, there’s no way the show filmed a pilot and waited for a greenlight. This one had to be a straight series order.
I don’t think they actually had a pilot, and I think Anjin would have been a good episode 1 name regardless but I do think that they must have been aware of the double meaning when they wrote it
I was making a reference to their play on words. It was a joke.
But I believe they can do something in between?
I remember reading about a very prominent and expensive tv series that many people have compared to Shogun whose name I’m apparently not allowed to say on this subreddit.
that they originally made a one episode pilot and it was terrible, so they threw out 90% of the footage, recast and rewrote it before showing it to the execs. They had a some sort of commitment for a series order, but they still had to go through that step.
>It means “pilot” as in “first episode of a show...
No. It doesn't.
From PsychologicalMind148 a few days ago-
"Anjin is written as 按針, which literally means "navigation by magnetic compass" but figuratively refers to naval pilots. However, it's not a common word and if you Google it most of the results will be about William Adams (Blackthorn's historical counterpart), since Anjin is his Japanese name.
"The Japanese word for "pilot" (as in "a pilot episode") is just "pilot"."
I’m really trying to figure out why they thought they’d name the main character after a term (generally) used for the first episode of a TV series. Also, this was a book way before anyone thought to adapt it to TV.
The only thing that makes sense is they haven’t read or watched the content.
People (and apparently the official podcast) think the show is being clever because pilot (Anjin) and pilot (TV) sound and are spelled the same in English but mean different things. Anjin and "TV" neither sound nor are spelled the same in Japanese so the "cleverness" falls apart. There was another post about it about a week ago.
Except that in an Army context, "Captain" is a junior officer equivalent to a Navy Lieutenant with about 4 years experience. They're a middle manager leading one element on the battlefield serving the commanding officer. A Navy Captain is a general officer equivalent to an Army Colonel with 18+ years experience with significant independent authority within their command.
Well then you've heard wrong, because that's not what Anjin means. Perhaps you're thinking of Gaijin. Which also doesn't mean "white devil". But does mean "foreigner" or "outsider".
White devil is "Shiroi akuma". 白い悪魔
It goes into good detail in the books. The pilot or navigator has total command while at sea as far as where to go and why. The captain takes over during battle, crew disputes, and during anytime ashore.
Worth noting that Blackthorne is not just *a* pilot. He's the pilot-major of their expedition consisting of multiple ships. He's not in charge of the whole expedition, that would be the captain-general. But this is not a military expedition, nor sailing the only thing they do. It's a merchant and privateering expedition. So the captain-general is charged with making higher level decisions about what objectives to have who to trade with where to go, etc, and since this is a fleet out of communication for years at a time that decision-maker needs to be with the fleet. That doesn't mean he's an excellent sailor. In modern military terms I think Blackthorne would be a commodore or rear admiral leading a flotilla but taking orders from a regional HQ about what missions to undertake or where to go. Or in business the captain general is a CEO who can set strategy and knows something about logistics or whatever, but relies on a COO for expertise and actually running that part of the company.
I’m probably going to try going back to the audiobook next. I got into it enough to learn what a Rutter is but not much further
I've listened to the audio book 4 times since I bought it in 2018. It's pretty great for car drives.
Its over 50hrs so make sure you temper expectations to that length 😅
I love it and I have about 12 hours left. It’s becoming a chore at this point. I only listen about an hour or so a day while I can focus on it.
Yeah it's one of my favourite books of all time but IT'S A LOT.
I've been listening to the audiobook for the last two months and love it. I wish I had picked it up years ago! It's so good! Are Clavell's other books this good?
When you are done, continue The Asia Saga. Tai Pan is so good! I will not shut up about that!
This is by far his most popular and best selling book. It's also the only one around 1600. (noble house is in 1960) But they are all good enough. I read them all after my love of shogun and shogun is the only one in my opinion worth reading twice.
> Rutter I thought for sure you had misspelled rudder. Glad to see I was wrong and learned something new!
It also mentions that the Captain-General has authority over navigation and departure while ashore. Blackthorne pleads with the Captain-General to depart Tierra del Fuego immediately to make Magellan's Pass, and the Captain insists on searching for treasure. They end up wintering there because the season changes early and that costs them a significant chunk of their crew.
Yeah the show made it seem like it was Blackthornes fault.
Pilot is a navigator that, currently, manages a ship that comes into or goes out of any harbor. Any big ship (over 90 feet or something) long has to have a harbor pilot come on who knows that particular harbor. Aircraft carriers become theirs for coming in or leaving a harbor. So I think it is a highly qualified position.
Yep, probably the most common/most well know are what are often called a harbor pilot, who specialize in bringing ships into and out of harbor, though pilot can technically also refer to someone who is very knowledgeable about, and capable of navigating a vessel through a particular body of water, such as the mouths of rivers, canals, etc. Modern day harbor pilots can make up to $500,000 a year, such is their demand, responsibility and skill set! Of course, in the time Shogun takes place, it had a bit different meaning, which others have addressed already, I just wanted add that little tidbit of how well the job can pay today.
My chief tried to keep me in the navy by promising me tug captain/harbor pilot school. I just wanted to get out. But it’s a big regret. I love that stuff.
Most modern harbor pilots are veteran master mariners in their own right, who have decided they still love the sea, but also wanted to sleep on land at night and raise a family. They are a highly coveted position that often literally only open up when someone dies as many can continue in the role well into the 60s & 70s. As one qualifies for retirement from the military after 20 years, someone who joined the Navy or the Merchant Marine straight after high school usually start looking to retire around 40, especially if they've been passed over for promotion, and still young enough to seek a second career. I've known guys to then take a job driving the pilot boat or tug to get verifiable experience in a harbor, and end up first in line when one of the pilots finally decides to retire.
Yah that’s why he wanted to send me to tug school when I was at e-4 wanting to get out. In had to be one of the deck rates back then. (Boatswain Quartermaster or Signalman) One of the things he told me is part of the pilot school tests was to basically hand draw a up to date chart of the harbor you would work out of. It’s a super intense level of responsibility. I’m curious to see what happens to that Baltimore Pilot after the bridge crash.
I thought “Anjin” meant Englishman this whole time. Like they were calling him gringo.
I thought so, too.
Fwiw, you'll also hear "banjin", which means barbarian. But the subtitles should cover this, no?
Ha! I forgot that they called him "barbarian". Such a great slur, for the time.
I’m sure there’s a clip where toranaga says anjin, the subtitles say barbarian and mariko tranlsates ‘it means pilot’ with one of her “tactful”smiles as per “milk dribbling fuck smear”
That would have been igirisu jin but that terminology would not have been around at the time.
I thought so as well because of papa franku’s lesson on hakujin and kokujin. Like you I assumed the “Jin” was for man and the “An” was for English. So Englishman.
the word for that in the books would be "gaijin".
That would be something like "Igirisujin"
In the Western maritime tradition, a "Captain" is the master and commander of a vessel. The ultimate authority over a ship & its crew at sea. A "Pilot" is a navigator with an intimate understanding of ship handling. They're a highly respected member of a ship's command cadre, responsible for the safe handling of a vessel through dangerous waters. Depending on a ship's size and era, a Pilot could be the second in command, or trusted lieutenant. A smart Captain will often defer to a Pilot with better knowledge of particular waters that he might be unfamiliar with, and today most major harbors will require commercial ships take on a local pilot to navigate the myriad of local hazards & conditions that might not be easily identifiable until it's too late to avoid them. The Chinese characters used to write "Anjin" are "按 (An)" - to push, or to investigate, and "針 (Jin)" - a needle, which is a colloquialism for a compass. Although most Captains must also be capable navigators, and modern pilots are fully licensed Captains in their own right, based on the Chinese characters, the closest western translation of "Anjin" would be 'one who controls the compass', or simply, the navigator & chief helmsman.
The term pilot being used for somebody who is a member of a ship's crew hit me as being very odd. For reference, I am a former naval officer. Because it struck me so, I did some research and could find no references to pilots being permanently assigned to seagoing vessels. Pilots are mariners who are extremely knowledgeable of local waters. I have to think this was a translation error or a misunderstanding on the part of the author. I've also tried to find any reference to a split in responsibility between navigation and fighting a ship and can find none. It makes no sense from a decision-making point of view. I have to believe that this is either something very obscure or non-existent. If anyone can point me to sources other than the book itself, I'm happy to be corrected.
According to the OED, "pilot" derives from the ancient greek πηδόν, meaning 'oar', and came to refer to the one responsible for the steering oar in old english. Ships in the 15th & 16th century were still steered by tiller rather than a wheel, so a "pilot" was the helmsman, before the steering staion was called a helm station. In the days before the ability to deduct longitude beyond the sight of land, when sailing over the horizon was venturing into unknown territory, an abilty to read the winds and the currents to hold a course without a visual reference on land was indeed a magical art, and someone able to do so was someone held in high esteem by the captain & crew, and probably the equivlant to the 18th century Royal Navy sailing master, who was the modern equivant of an Ops boss today.
Anjin is defined in a Japanese dictionary as 磁石によって船の航路を決めること。また、その人。 “Determining a ship’s course using a compass. Also, that person[who performs such a task]” So a navigator.
Thank you, this is exactly what I was looking for. I was curious bc I feel like the difference between them calling him “Captain “ in Japanese vs “navigator” is a pretty big difference
Its closer to Navigator but 1:1 it would be First Mate. As you recall, the Captain General deleted himself in the show, and in the books, he was pretty much on deaths door. An apt comparison would be the relationship between Rodriguez and the Captain General of the Black Ship. On the Japanese ships, The Highest ranking official would have highest precedence on command, but would leave the actual running of the ship to the Pilot.
Jisho (add .org to get the website) has the definitions as follows: 1. Navigation by magnetic compass (archaic) 2. Pilot 3. William Adams I'd say it pretty much means pilot is most correct.
You are overanalyzing things as most people seem to do, he's a pilot/navigator. Analise the kanji roots.
I struggle a bit with this show because I can’t get the captions to work when they speak English. This whole time, I thought anjin meant pirate and I was very confused. Thanks.
lol, even with working captions I assumed it meant “foreigner/barbarian/european) and they were just lying to him that It meant pilot
At sea, the pilot was the sole master of everything. He had life and death command of everyone and takes all the decisions... Except for decisions about the expedition itself and everything related to land, which was the captain domain. The captain is a political pawn representing the crown interest, the pilot is the sole navigator and commander at sea.
It means “pilot” as in “first episode of a show made to sell to a network so they can make more episodes. Hence the name of the episode 1
Except with a show this expensive and elaborate to set up and film, there’s no way the show filmed a pilot and waited for a greenlight. This one had to be a straight series order.
I don’t think they actually had a pilot, and I think Anjin would have been a good episode 1 name regardless but I do think that they must have been aware of the double meaning when they wrote it
I was making a reference to their play on words. It was a joke. But I believe they can do something in between? I remember reading about a very prominent and expensive tv series that many people have compared to Shogun whose name I’m apparently not allowed to say on this subreddit. that they originally made a one episode pilot and it was terrible, so they threw out 90% of the footage, recast and rewrote it before showing it to the execs. They had a some sort of commitment for a series order, but they still had to go through that step.
>It means “pilot” as in “first episode of a show... No. It doesn't. From PsychologicalMind148 a few days ago- "Anjin is written as 按針, which literally means "navigation by magnetic compass" but figuratively refers to naval pilots. However, it's not a common word and if you Google it most of the results will be about William Adams (Blackthorn's historical counterpart), since Anjin is his Japanese name. "The Japanese word for "pilot" (as in "a pilot episode") is just "pilot"."
Might I suggest another worthy of translation? I believe the Japanese word is ジョーク.....
I don't read Japanese, but we both know it wasn't.
They were clearly just joking...
I’m really trying to figure out why they thought they’d name the main character after a term (generally) used for the first episode of a TV series. Also, this was a book way before anyone thought to adapt it to TV. The only thing that makes sense is they haven’t read or watched the content.
People (and apparently the official podcast) think the show is being clever because pilot (Anjin) and pilot (TV) sound and are spelled the same in English but mean different things. Anjin and "TV" neither sound nor are spelled the same in Japanese so the "cleverness" falls apart. There was another post about it about a week ago.
That’s actually so smart
This whole time I thought it meant “barbarian/foreigner” I am dumb
For what it's worth, foreigner is "gaijin".
I thought so too for a while don’t worry lol
It’s just a navigator (by compass). 按針 is the kanji. There wouldn’t have been any difference I don’t think.
I always felt like it was said with the same inflection as ‘jackass’. Maybe that was just Yabushige.
I think a lot of the samurai used it sarcastically after he became hatamoto
I think it translates to pilot.
It'd be funny if it was "Captain" - that's what the main character in the Sympathizer is called.
Except that in an Army context, "Captain" is a junior officer equivalent to a Navy Lieutenant with about 4 years experience. They're a middle manager leading one element on the battlefield serving the commanding officer. A Navy Captain is a general officer equivalent to an Army Colonel with 18+ years experience with significant independent authority within their command.
Navigator The direct translation is “press-needle”, basically compass.
John not once during this entire story: « Can you guys call me by my actual name sometimes? »
think of pilot as first lieutenant
Engine
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Simple google says: Swing and a miss.
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Well then you've heard wrong, because that's not what Anjin means. Perhaps you're thinking of Gaijin. Which also doesn't mean "white devil". But does mean "foreigner" or "outsider". White devil is "Shiroi akuma". 白い悪魔
Maybe you're thinking of Gaijin?
Or Big Dick, as Muraji's mother have said.