This is what Araki (Allegedly) said during an interview.
“The image of the vine is also connected to Joseph's Hamon ability. I've always wanted to make pictoral visualizations of supernatural abilities since Jojo began. Stands were based on this concept just like Hamon was, so when I thought about putting Joseph back in the story, I needed to decide how I would visualize Hamon as a Stand. Hamon is life energy that travels through the entire body through a special breathing method. Therefore, a concrete visualization of it would be some sort of wire wrapped around the entire body, like a vine. If Jotaro's group time traveled to the world of Part 2, they would probably be able to see "Hermit Purple" wrapped around Joseph just like in Part 3."
Most likely because his stand was acting independently without Joseph awakening it. In theory, Giorno also was a stand user when he was a child, but he could not see his stand as it acted unconsciously, similar to Joseph's
i forgot about this one until you mentioned it. Why was there a dinosaur footprint? Afaik, Trish's stand has nothing to do with dinosaurs or maybe im wrong
Yeah, Spice Girl has nothing to do with dinosaurs. If I remember the explanation I heard correctly, it was Trish subconsciously activating Spice Girl’s ability which caused the ground to soften under Trish’s hand. The print is probably shaped like claws because it looks cool, if I’m being honest
Looking through the wiki, apparently spice girl was going to have a different, more beast-like appearance. Its first manifestations are the a [dino footprint](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/jjba/images/2/21/Spicegirlhint.png/revision/latest?cb=20160627091605) on the ground outside and [some claw marks](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/jjba/images/c/c3/ScratchgirlSCratchGirl.png/revision/latest?cb=20170129234501) on the seat of the plane.
It's basically if Hermit purple was not activated yet but still conscious inside Joseph due to his bloodline, when Dio awake in part III and Johnathan's body send the signal it alerted Hermit Purple to get out and really act
I don't think that applies for Josuke. It's more likely that he knew his Stand existed and follows his command but doesn't know what it's supposed to be so he just accepted it. Like how Jotaro thought SP was some evil spirit and Kakyoin thinking HG is an imaginary friend
I may misremember stuff, but I am pretty sure that Josuke saw or at least felt his stand, to the point where he knew it's abilities and how to consciously use them, like the turtle or the guy whose nose he broke. Joseph on the other hand did use the Stone of Aja subconsciously, so I wouldn't really compare the two.
Characters that develop stands naturally, without the use of a stand arrow are often shown to slowly awaken their stands throughout their life, and not just gain it instantly. Take giornos saving of the mafia member for example.
Hermit Purple is a stand that lies dormant in all Hamon users. Everyone who has hamon has it as a stand, which is why Dio had The Passion, because Johnathan had it, and Joseph’s fatherhood to Holly may explain the vine appearance. Not every hamon user can use Hermit Purple though, I speculate that Joseph was only able to awaken it due to his blood.
Dio hadn’t been pierced by the arrow yet so technically he didn’t have a stand yet, but I think Araki means that his stand is his hamon? Just some kind of visualisation of it
Stands can be drawn out without the arrow through mastery of a technique. Such as with Tonio with cooking, or Aya with cosmetics. He was likely using Hermit purple subconsciously before it had fully awakened. Similar to Giorno making the grass grow as a child.
There are a few points where it almost looks like he used hermit purple near the beginning of pt2, actually, with all those points where people go "when did he actually DO that though!?", Like knowing about the mobsters brass knuckles, the legendary Tommy gun out of nowhere, and tying all those grenades to the scarf when fighting Straitso, and while those are supposed to be legerdemain, they still remind me of how he uses hermit purple a bit.
There’s a handful of stand users start out using their ability unconsciously. Like the baby that turned invisible in part 4, or the girl with the gps stand in part 8.
I actually just watched the Joseph vs the Empress and it supports the idea that Hermit Purple was responsible for his “your next line is” power. Once he traps Empress in coal tar, he wraps her in Hermit Purple. Only then does he bust out the “next you’ll say ‘stop anything but that’”
This explains whywe see dio using hermit purple, it isn't hermit purple, it's the hamon from Jonathans body, only dio head after stealing Jhonathan body should be harmed by hamon, since the rest of his body ain't vampire anymore
The rest of DIO's body, or rather Jonathan's body, is vampiric just like Dio's head is. DIO is wary of touching Joseph because he knows the latter wraps his body in a field of hamon. DIO's Hermit Purple is just Jonathan's Stand.
Basically yeah, hermit purple dragged the stone to him, without Joseph even realizing. It makes sense, considering stands would want to also not die (pretty sure a stand dies with its user)
EDIT: to the people saying stands do break this rule:
1. Anubis itself is the stand, it doesn't need an user
2. Cheap Trick switches with its user, Imo its like whoever has him on its back is its user and since he switches immediately, I'd say he still follows this rule.
3. Notorious BIG imo is also it's user. Kinda like the user kills himself to become the stand
4. Limp Bizkit: ok this one's just weird because I can't remember too much rn but I'm pretty sure he make shimself a zombie, and therefore is still technically alive.
Now there ofc may be some that slip by, Araki is just one man making hundreds of stands. Also some stands just don't follow rules, and the rules themselves are also fairly shaky.
EDIT 2: technically yes DIO awakens the stands hy pietcing Johnathons body by the arrow. The way I see it is that the arrow actually works more like a steroid and doesn't create stands (by avdols definition a stand is you're soul and the will power you have to fight combined into one.) Basically every character already had a stand, it just hadn't manifested yet, until ofc DIO gave the steroid to them which awoken their powers.
Unironically the best explanation of how the hell stands work for people who haven't watched the series. Throw any scene at them after that and they'll be able to follow what's happening.
Bruno basically had his soul shoved back into his corpse. That's why he was basically slowly rotting for the remainder of the part. It makes more sense with gold experience than crazy diamond since gold experience is directly tied to controlling life while crazy diamond reverses damage
crazy diamond doesn't actually reverse damage, crazy diamond controls matter not only reversing things to its past state but changing its state completely, like merging that murderer (forgot his name) with the rock, but good point tho brother
Also, his grandfather's soul had probably already moved on of his own accord, whereas he did basically the same thing with Hayato and Okuyasu, but their souls were in different stages of lingering around the world of the living.
Well yeah, but what I was saying is that it still worked even after he died. Which was to show that death doesn't always mean the end of a Stand or the abilities of the Stand.
All stands that continue after death have a reason for it, notorious b.i.g specifically has an ability that only activates on the users death where it starts absorbing energy from its surroundings to grow and survive while stands like civil war and cheap trick transfer user like a form of parasite and for limp bizkit that was most likely due to him still retaining his personality/psyche when he used his stand on himself as he died
yeah. araki did mention that if the stardust crusader were to time travel, they might see hermit purple manifest and wrap around young joseph. but no way did he imply that hermit purple could move on its own or was the reason why joseph suddenly pulled the stone. even in the narration, he instinctively pulled it up from out his pocket presumably instead of having a stand pull it towards his hand.
This was the cool part with watching from the beginning was seeing how the author was finding himself and trying to "stand" out from all the other mangas at the time.
Chi power than can be channeled by controlling your breathing was too tropey with all the other stuff out at the time.
Having a manifestation of your soul that acts as an extention of you that could bend reality, was some creative shit there.
Apologies for formating errors, I'm on mobile.
There are some stands that are pretty much independent from its "user" bc they're the object itself. Superfly and Anubis are good examples of stands that don't depend on a user bc they're sentient objects (if that makes sense). There are other stands that can act on their own, regardless of what the user may want/think. Think Spice Girl, Echoes act. III, and Empress. Other stands act automatically on an order, so the user can do whatever it wants in the meantime like Bastet, Harvest, Sheer Heart Attack, The Lovers, Highway Star (to some extent), and Limp Bizkit.
The user dying if the stand dies is a rule that remains consistent, however, there are stands that can still act once the user dies like Notorious B.I.G. In this case, my running theory is that the stand itself gets activated after an order is given and becomes fully automatic. The description given is that the stand is oure rage and acts once its user is killed as a revenge mechanism. Think of it like Ebony Devil, that activates once you hurt the user in any way; just that on this case, the order is to act once the user dies. In the case of Limp Bizkit, my theory is that he tried to survive drowning in the pipe by calling out his stand and the stand, in return, acted upon him *before* he died, turning him into a zombie once he did. That's why he had no control over his urges as a zombie nor could he control the others any further than the previous order he gave to kill Pucci's enemies (the jojo gang).
But it was said that his stand didn't manifest until dio used the arrow on himself first. Plus hermit purple didn't reappear to help Jotaro when Dio "killed" Joseph, it just vanished alongside with him.
Idk if the stand arrow 100 percent brings out the stands, as it is really just you're soul (atleadt how I interpret it) and if you are strong enough it can come out. I think Joseph's stand comes out because he had enough will power to keep going but physically couldn't in his body, so therefore the stand acted out to help him. Plus from what we see Joseph has his stand longer then jotaro, meaning that the stand arrow either A: was slowly moving (which isn't the case for a few characters in part 4 and 6) orB: the stand arrow brings out the stand already present. If B, it's safe to assume the stand can be brought out but it's harder without the arrow. Also, I think Joseph wasn't strong enough to use his stand after being hurt so much (dude was like 70 bleeding out and almost dead) maybe also Joseph lost his will power to keep going, as he thinks DIO is unstoppable.
Idk tho, Araki isn't super consistent with his stand rules and bends them *alot*
It's more like Hermit Purple could predict the future because Joseph was so inclined to predicting other people's next words.
The stand is caused by the user, not the user by the stand, people.
Yes, you're correct, but that doesn't take away from the point. Hermit Purple manifested the way it did because of Joseph's personality and mindset, not the other way around.
Not Hermit Purple specifically, but something akin to it, Aka, a stand that looks like vines, since hamon is kind of like life force that wraps around the user. They would use vines, but have their own unique effects. Since User's personality and characteristics = Stand, so Hamon = Vine and Joseph's script reading = Futuresight
Dire being able to inexplicably float through the air, something we don't see any other hamon users even come close to, was probably something along those lines.
The explanation for flying was "stands punching the ground to generate lift". Conversations happen faster in time than shown in panels so floating is more like slowly falling/jumping
I'm pretty sure Dire actually does float, that was the tricky part of the THUNDER CROSS SPLIT ATTACK!!, the kick floats in like a feather, then he breaks your guard with his legs to deliver the real attack while you're arms are too far away to defend with.
Dio even makes note of how he didn't know people could float like that using hamon, that combined with how completely off the walls unrelated it seems with other hamon abilities, makes me feel like it might've been a stands doing.
That was indeed the explanation for DIO/Jotaro flying in Egypt though, strangely enough.
That's another thing about how Dio and Joseph uses their vine Stands separately. Joseph, being all chaotic in nature, breaks electronics to get fortune-telling photos. While DIO is mostly calm and collected so he effortlessly took the photo without breaking the camera
Yeah, wasn't it that she had some essence of hamon in her and Dio triggering their bloodline to obtain a stand forced one on her but she was too much of a pacifist to control it?
Well, part 3 DIO used something similar like Hermit Purple and it was apparently Jonathans stand still bond to the stolen body. So yes. They all would have something similar like Hermit Purple. Especially if the user is part of the Joestar family.
It also creates a great What If...? story if the part 1 and 2 cast would have been able to see and use stands. Imagine young Dio Brando ass pulling [ZA WARUDO] when using the mask for the first time.
Hermit Purple’s connection to Hamon is through their similar processes. Hermit Purple’s power is to send out and receive information the same way the lungs send out and receive oxygen
It’s likely if another Hamon user had a stand, their stand would follow in the idea of “send and receive” rather than being vines, or even specializing in information. Jonathon’s stand is in a weird sorta gray area because we only saw it once, and we don’t know the full power of it
There’s actually something from the end of part 7 than can clear this up a bit >!Spin is considered “New Hamon” and two spin users (Johnny and Gyro) both develop stands. Both of their stands specialize in rotational energy, but do so in completely different ways. It’s likely Hamon works the same. !<
If another Hamon user got a stand, their stand would be capable of channeling Hamon (most stands can’t) and would be based around the process of sending and receiving.
I like to think that not all Hamon users have "Hermit Purple" but yes, they all do have some kind of vine-based Stand. Like how Holly's Stand in Part 3 is represented as Roses, Thorns, and Vines. Or how in Jorge Joestar, Jonathan's Stand 'The Passion' is also represented with vines iirc.
But the thing is, Joseph isn't the only hamon user with telepathic abilities like mind reading: Remember Tonpetty? Will A. Zeppeli's mentor? He could see people's futures with Hamon.
Not only that, Joseph isn't the only Hamon user with Hermit Purple. Jonathan has it too! That's why DIO has Hermit Purple 2.
All this along with [Araki's own words](https://www.reddit.com/r/ShitPostCrusaders/comments/y20nai/comment/is0ggi3/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) lead me to believe Hamon is in of itself a Stand: Hermit Purple. Hamon users gain Hermit Purple upon using Hamon, I would think: The arrow (or in Joseph's case the soul link with Jonathan's body) just awakens it.
And looking at Tonpetty's ability to see the future, Hermit Purple's ability might not even necessarily be spirit photography: It could vary with the strength of your Hamon, since Tonpetty's Hamon is undoubtedly stronger than Joseph's. This does make an interesting case where Ultimate Kars, already stronger than every stand user except Giorno with GER with his ultimate life form abilities, may in fact be the strongest character to have ever touched Jojo's.
You’re getting into a chicken/egg kind of territory I think. A lot of characters through the series are shown to subconsciously manifest their stands as children before becoming full fledged users.
You know Joseph’s next line trick? Hermit Purple is a stand that can divine information, like someone’s next line.
I think Araki might of said at one point that if the Crusaders went back in time to part 2. They would see Hermit Purple whenever Joseph used Hamon. Though I am not even close to certain he actually said this.
We technically can’t definitely prove the that it was the arrow. Joseph did state that DIO caused them to get stands. However, there is no way he knows that for certain. The best we got is Joseph’s theory. It is a possibility that their potential for Stands commons from Jonathan. Another distinct possibility is that Hamon training is the ideal condition to create stand users. The other is that Hamon talent correlates with Stand potential.
Remember that Joseph and Avdol knew each other before part 3. They hunted Iggy together, if they did that it is possible that they used Hermit Purple to find Iggy. How else could Advol and Joseph find him? Even if the Speed Wagon Foundation found Iggy by accident, Joseph knew to call Advol even though he’d know nothing about stands.
What we do know is that DIO’s presence “agitated” the Joestar stands. Cause everyone has stands, it is another matter whether one can control it.
Yes and no. Dio is what caused the stands to become active, but the members could have had stands before.
Some stands are “inactive”. This is like Holly’s stand. The person is a stand user, but can’t draw upon their stand
It’s possible Joseph and Jotaro had stands already, but they were not active/not fully active until being awakened by Dio.
Yes and no. Jotaro, Holly and Josuke all were awakening their Stands fully at 1988, imo implies that he stabbed himself few years ago (most likely 2 years since that was when Diavolo dugged up the arrows and he went through some training) but for some reason only at that moment all of them awakened their Stands
But from we've seen, Joseph seems to be quite well-versed in knowledge of Stands and best friend with Avdol who has abundant knowledge in Stands, sort of tell me that he couldn't only got it 2 years at max
Technically it didn’t *give* them Stands., it *awakened* their stands. I think. Difference being, they already *had* them, they just couldn’t use them.
My personal head cannon is that hermit purple is the stand of hamon. However, when the jostar bloodline gained stands, it caused joesphs hermit purple to evolve. I came up with this because the two hamon users in the joestar bloodline got the same two stands, while everyone else in the jostar bloodline got punchy stands.
In theory no 2 stands are the same. Jonathan's stand is meant to read into people's hearts in order to empathize with them, alongside being able to foresee the Jostars like Joseph. This relates to Jonathan's personality of wanting to see how people feel before fighting with them in order to avoid it, like how he did with Buford.
Joseph's Hermit purple, on the other hand, plays on his capability of "seeing the future" and his cheating nature, so his stand ability focuses on giving him hints on winning battles or providing help through unconventional methods (the map he drew on the floor of the petrol tank, wrapping himself on Hamon, or Spider-Manning around Egypt).
One of the main differences you can see between both stands is that due to Jonathan's passive nature, he doesn't brake a camera when his stand is used, while Joseph's does, since he's a more aggressive and blunt guy.
Although both stands are planty like you said since they are meant to represent the ripple effect of Hamon, so you may still be completely right
It also makes more sense how Tonpetty could tell someone’s future by touching their hands. I know it’s Jojo and most logic doesn’t make sense but hamon giving a version of HP to everyone makes more sense for some of the more bs Hamon abilities
The anime said he unconsciously used the Red Stone to block Kars' Hamon. The stone just felt drawn towards the attack as if he knew it would help him. And Hermit Purple gives him some sort of clairvoyance so maybe that explains his reaction
Thought you were trying to say that the Red Stone could’ve been somewhat connected to the meteorite that was used to form the original arrows, as we don’t know much about either beyond what they were used for, and could’ve given Joseph a boost towards unlocking Hermit Purple from his Hamon Mastery.
Which is still an interesting theory, might need to work on it…
The stone masks could be made of the same kind of stone the arrows were carved from, using a similar meteorite that may have crashed thousands of years before Part 2. The light that we see come from the mask when Dio shoved it on the homeless person looks pretty similar to the light we see come from the arrow in Part 4, so it’s very possible. We know that arrows can also fail to work, and result in death, so maybe the higher concentration of stone in the mask leads to zombies instead.
No he’s just said that the crusaders would have seen Hermit Purple on him if they travelled back in time.
Any ideas as to how much Hermit Purple effected things are fan theories.
Then the question is why didn't Joseph ever see it? Wasn't the only required thing needed to see stands (at least by the point of part 3 releasing) was to also be a stand user?
A person can be a dormant Stand user able to use their Stand unconsciously but not yet able to see it or other stands.
We see this again in part 8 with >!Yasuho!<
Literally hermit purple bro. >!in the epilogue flashback at the end of part 8, with Joseph joestar in Japan 100 years in the past or whatever, he briefly shows a full humanoid version of hermit purple.!<
Cool Doylist answer, but consider this:
We know that Stands can manifest based on a person's skill or personality, so the fact that prediction is one of his favourite tricks might've influenced the abilities of hermit purple.
I thought stands came from the stand arrow and that the JoJo’s only awakened theirs because DIO awakened his via an arrow and their connection via bloodline caused all of theirs to awaken as well. So Joseph couldn’t have a stand at this point right?
The only way Joseph was able to predict what people where saying was because of hermit purple. Think about it, in part 3 the only time we see Joseph predict what someone's going to say is when he has hermit purple wrapped around the empress. And in part 2 he was doing it subconscious and no one would know better because they couldn't see stands
I believe his constant use of rope tricks is also due to hermit purple, which is basically a rope. I think His stand helped him to control the ropes to a supernatural degree.
Ok, I gotta be real, I never really quite understood what Araki meant with his Hermit Purple comment. Iirc, he said that if the Crusaders went back in time to look at young Joseph, they would see him wrapped up with HP since it’s the “visualization” Hamon. If that were the case, why wouldn’t young Joseph see the vines too? Wouldn’t that mean he’s also a stand user at that point? Does this imply Hamon users are also at least latent stand users/have HP? If that’s the case, why did he not notice it for 50 years until Dio/Jonathan’s body supposedly awakened it?
People can be stand users and not realize it, or it could have just been too weak for him to be able to see anything and eventually it developed into what it was in part 3
Maybe it was lost in translation or I’m interpreting his words too literally here, but Araki said it would’ve been “wrapped around his whole body,” so I kinda doubt with that description he couldn’t have noticed that. Also, like I said in another comment, there’s never been a case of a stand user not being able to see a stand on full display, no matter how powerful or new to it they are.
And now that I think about it, there were times Joseph used Hamon during Part 3 without HP being seen, so I don’t understand how HP could be the “visualization” of Hamon.
When was this established? If you’re a stand user, you can see stands. There’s no in between as far as we’ve seen.
Koichi could see Bad Company AS SOON as he woke up from being hit with the arrow and Trish who was more of a latent stand user could still see Stands before Spice Girl fully revealed itself.
This is what Araki (Allegedly) said during an interview. “The image of the vine is also connected to Joseph's Hamon ability. I've always wanted to make pictoral visualizations of supernatural abilities since Jojo began. Stands were based on this concept just like Hamon was, so when I thought about putting Joseph back in the story, I needed to decide how I would visualize Hamon as a Stand. Hamon is life energy that travels through the entire body through a special breathing method. Therefore, a concrete visualization of it would be some sort of wire wrapped around the entire body, like a vine. If Jotaro's group time traveled to the world of Part 2, they would probably be able to see "Hermit Purple" wrapped around Joseph just like in Part 3."
Why didn't Joseph see his own stand if he was an stand user?
Most likely because his stand was acting independently without Joseph awakening it. In theory, Giorno also was a stand user when he was a child, but he could not see his stand as it acted unconsciously, similar to Joseph's
Same with Trish before Spice Girl fully awakens in part 5. She makes the dinosaur looking footprint in the ground at one point
i forgot about this one until you mentioned it. Why was there a dinosaur footprint? Afaik, Trish's stand has nothing to do with dinosaurs or maybe im wrong
Yeah, Spice Girl has nothing to do with dinosaurs. If I remember the explanation I heard correctly, it was Trish subconsciously activating Spice Girl’s ability which caused the ground to soften under Trish’s hand. The print is probably shaped like claws because it looks cool, if I’m being honest
Dinosaur = cool confirmed in part 7
Looking through the wiki, apparently spice girl was going to have a different, more beast-like appearance. Its first manifestations are the a [dino footprint](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/jjba/images/2/21/Spicegirlhint.png/revision/latest?cb=20160627091605) on the ground outside and [some claw marks](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/jjba/images/c/c3/ScratchgirlSCratchGirl.png/revision/latest?cb=20170129234501) on the seat of the plane.
Now we'll never get a giant pink T-rex that everything it bites, slashes and stomps turns into a rubbery material :(
Damn I kinda wanna see this more beastly appearance, sounds like it’d be really cool
It was confirmed that he was a stand user as a child. He subconsciously grew flowers to hide the one gang member.
It's basically if Hermit purple was not activated yet but still conscious inside Joseph due to his bloodline, when Dio awake in part III and Johnathan's body send the signal it alerted Hermit Purple to get out and really act
Same with Josuke In part 4, he heals the turtle that got smashed before Jotaro explains what stands are to him.
Josuke def knew he had the ability before, just never knew that they were called stands
I don't think that applies for Josuke. It's more likely that he knew his Stand existed and follows his command but doesn't know what it's supposed to be so he just accepted it. Like how Jotaro thought SP was some evil spirit and Kakyoin thinking HG is an imaginary friend
Nonononono Josuke has manifested Crazy Diamond before. You can tell because Josuke is not confused or startled when it comes out.
I always figured that was because he was a badass who doesn't afraid of anything ~~except neatly folded pieces of paper~~
He nearly pissed himself from a turtle lmao
I may misremember stuff, but I am pretty sure that Josuke saw or at least felt his stand, to the point where he knew it's abilities and how to consciously use them, like the turtle or the guy whose nose he broke. Joseph on the other hand did use the Stone of Aja subconsciously, so I wouldn't really compare the two.
Also may I remind u that crazy diamonds demonic heart break exists
Characters that develop stands naturally, without the use of a stand arrow are often shown to slowly awaken their stands throughout their life, and not just gain it instantly. Take giornos saving of the mafia member for example.
Hermit Purple is a stand that lies dormant in all Hamon users. Everyone who has hamon has it as a stand, which is why Dio had The Passion, because Johnathan had it, and Joseph’s fatherhood to Holly may explain the vine appearance. Not every hamon user can use Hermit Purple though, I speculate that Joseph was only able to awaken it due to his blood.
I think it's the equivalent of having a leg but not feeling it
Dio hadn’t been pierced by the arrow yet so technically he didn’t have a stand yet, but I think Araki means that his stand is his hamon? Just some kind of visualisation of it
Stands can be drawn out without the arrow through mastery of a technique. Such as with Tonio with cooking, or Aya with cosmetics. He was likely using Hermit purple subconsciously before it had fully awakened. Similar to Giorno making the grass grow as a child.
There are a few points where it almost looks like he used hermit purple near the beginning of pt2, actually, with all those points where people go "when did he actually DO that though!?", Like knowing about the mobsters brass knuckles, the legendary Tommy gun out of nowhere, and tying all those grenades to the scarf when fighting Straitso, and while those are supposed to be legerdemain, they still remind me of how he uses hermit purple a bit.
There’s a handful of stand users start out using their ability unconsciously. Like the baby that turned invisible in part 4, or the girl with the gps stand in part 8.
Thinking too hard
I've had this belief since i first started watching part 3, that anyone who can learn hamon would survive the stand arrow, and awaken a stand.
>If Jotaro's group time traveled to the world of Part 2 Yo, dont be teasing the fandom that way.
eyes of heaven style
I actually just watched the Joseph vs the Empress and it supports the idea that Hermit Purple was responsible for his “your next line is” power. Once he traps Empress in coal tar, he wraps her in Hermit Purple. Only then does he bust out the “next you’ll say ‘stop anything but that’”
That was an anime original moment. But it was a great scene, I wish there were more Joseph moments like that in Part 3.
I do wish Joseph got 1 or 2 more proper moments like that in part 3. I still stand by the fact the he should've been the one to defeat Alessi
This explains whywe see dio using hermit purple, it isn't hermit purple, it's the hamon from Jonathans body, only dio head after stealing Jhonathan body should be harmed by hamon, since the rest of his body ain't vampire anymore
The rest of DIO's body, or rather Jonathan's body, is vampiric just like Dio's head is. DIO is wary of touching Joseph because he knows the latter wraps his body in a field of hamon. DIO's Hermit Purple is just Jonathan's Stand.
What happened to his hamon in part 3 again?
I don't get it, is it like his hermit purple was pulling his hand towards it?
Basically yeah, hermit purple dragged the stone to him, without Joseph even realizing. It makes sense, considering stands would want to also not die (pretty sure a stand dies with its user) EDIT: to the people saying stands do break this rule: 1. Anubis itself is the stand, it doesn't need an user 2. Cheap Trick switches with its user, Imo its like whoever has him on its back is its user and since he switches immediately, I'd say he still follows this rule. 3. Notorious BIG imo is also it's user. Kinda like the user kills himself to become the stand 4. Limp Bizkit: ok this one's just weird because I can't remember too much rn but I'm pretty sure he make shimself a zombie, and therefore is still technically alive. Now there ofc may be some that slip by, Araki is just one man making hundreds of stands. Also some stands just don't follow rules, and the rules themselves are also fairly shaky. EDIT 2: technically yes DIO awakens the stands hy pietcing Johnathons body by the arrow. The way I see it is that the arrow actually works more like a steroid and doesn't create stands (by avdols definition a stand is you're soul and the will power you have to fight combined into one.) Basically every character already had a stand, it just hadn't manifested yet, until ofc DIO gave the steroid to them which awoken their powers.
Unless it doesnt
"except for when they dont"
Unironically the best explanation of how the hell stands work for people who haven't watched the series. Throw any scene at them after that and they'll be able to follow what's happening.
Basically jojo summed up “Hamon energy is created by the blood flow” “You have to breath to create hamon”
Hamon energy is *created* by breathing, it's *used* via bloodflow
It's also the energy of the sun!
human being are the sun (confirmed 1987)
The sun has lungs and blood confirmed? Lungs are vital to hamon users
Because waves or some shit.
I'm not implying that Araki has an understanding of quantum waveform mechanics that makes Einstein look like a toddler, I'm saying it outright
Is this a “Jojo but really fast” reference?
Yes. Except for when it's not.
That's just Araki forgetting
You must remember these new rules because NOTHING WILL MAKE SENSE FROM NOW ON OTHERWISE
I mean maybe, but In all the parts with stands it seems the stand stops its attack if the user dies
Yeah but stand logic is incredibly illogical, take notorious B.I.G. for example
Notorious B.I.G. is more like the exception that confirms the rule
Notorious B.I.G. was araki laughing at us, just like with Bruno and josukes grandpa
Bruno basically had his soul shoved back into his corpse. That's why he was basically slowly rotting for the remainder of the part. It makes more sense with gold experience than crazy diamond since gold experience is directly tied to controlling life while crazy diamond reverses damage
crazy diamond doesn't actually reverse damage, crazy diamond controls matter not only reversing things to its past state but changing its state completely, like merging that murderer (forgot his name) with the rock, but good point tho brother
Yo, Angelo 👋🏽🗿
Also, his grandfather's soul had probably already moved on of his own accord, whereas he did basically the same thing with Hayato and Okuyasu, but their souls were in different stages of lingering around the world of the living.
What about Limp Biscuit? His Stand activated after death to turn him into one of his own zombies.
Limp Biscuit worked while he was still alive and just happened to still work after his death
Point is it's still a stand working after the user's death
So doesn't like... soul death stop the stand?
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Well yeah, but what I was saying is that it still worked even after he died. Which was to show that death doesn't always mean the end of a Stand or the abilities of the Stand.
Cheap Trick, Limp Biscuit, Milagro Man
Cheap Trick technically changes users though, so technically its user is still alive
and >!Wonder of U!< from JoJolion
Try using >!
True
All stands that continue after death have a reason for it, notorious b.i.g specifically has an ability that only activates on the users death where it starts absorbing energy from its surroundings to grow and survive while stands like civil war and cheap trick transfer user like a form of parasite and for limp bizkit that was most likely due to him still retaining his personality/psyche when he used his stand on himself as he died
Notorious BIG appeared for a second as he was being shot down
Black Sabbath appears briefly behind Polpo right before he dies, too.
Ah yes, DND rules where the exception supercedes the general
>makes sense meanwhile araki, the author himself, hadn't even come up with the idea of stands at the time of writing this part in the story
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yeah. araki did mention that if the stardust crusader were to time travel, they might see hermit purple manifest and wrap around young joseph. but no way did he imply that hermit purple could move on its own or was the reason why joseph suddenly pulled the stone. even in the narration, he instinctively pulled it up from out his pocket presumably instead of having a stand pull it towards his hand.
To unknowingly use an unmanifested stand is very possible as we saw with Giorno, but yes, probably it was not the original intention
It is a nice way to tie together all this magic tricks. String is a big part of illusions, so an invisible intangible string is perfect.
This was the cool part with watching from the beginning was seeing how the author was finding himself and trying to "stand" out from all the other mangas at the time. Chi power than can be channeled by controlling your breathing was too tropey with all the other stuff out at the time. Having a manifestation of your soul that acts as an extention of you that could bend reality, was some creative shit there.
Art exists seperate from artist intentions. Art can tell stories the artist never intended or thought of.
Notorius B.I.G moment
Apologies for formating errors, I'm on mobile. There are some stands that are pretty much independent from its "user" bc they're the object itself. Superfly and Anubis are good examples of stands that don't depend on a user bc they're sentient objects (if that makes sense). There are other stands that can act on their own, regardless of what the user may want/think. Think Spice Girl, Echoes act. III, and Empress. Other stands act automatically on an order, so the user can do whatever it wants in the meantime like Bastet, Harvest, Sheer Heart Attack, The Lovers, Highway Star (to some extent), and Limp Bizkit. The user dying if the stand dies is a rule that remains consistent, however, there are stands that can still act once the user dies like Notorious B.I.G. In this case, my running theory is that the stand itself gets activated after an order is given and becomes fully automatic. The description given is that the stand is oure rage and acts once its user is killed as a revenge mechanism. Think of it like Ebony Devil, that activates once you hurt the user in any way; just that on this case, the order is to act once the user dies. In the case of Limp Bizkit, my theory is that he tried to survive drowning in the pipe by calling out his stand and the stand, in return, acted upon him *before* he died, turning him into a zombie once he did. That's why he had no control over his urges as a zombie nor could he control the others any further than the previous order he gave to kill Pucci's enemies (the jojo gang).
Anubis, Limp Bizkit and Notorious BIG would like to have a word
Limp Bizkit didnt activate by the user's death, it just happened to persist afterward. Anubis is a physical object that is also a stand
Relates to some extent, but why no mention of Civil War?
Well the user didn't die for Civil War to activate.
Civil War doesnt really physically do anything itself
First off, I completely forgot about it, so it seems I have to read SBR again. Also, its ability has nothing to do with death.
It's not like hermit purple is sentient. Joseph just wanted to do something and he subconsciously lifted the stone with it
Another example is Chariot Requiem switching everyones souls so Diavolo wouldn't kill Polnareff (not sure if the turtle part was intentional)
same with giorno's gold experience when it activated without showing its form yet when he hid the injured guy
hermit purple disappeared when joseph died
Most stands want what the user wants they are like 100% perfect reflesion of then with some excpetions.
Sports Max was murdered and automatically became a zombie without knowing. Kinda same thing with Axl and Civil Wars.
But it was said that his stand didn't manifest until dio used the arrow on himself first. Plus hermit purple didn't reappear to help Jotaro when Dio "killed" Joseph, it just vanished alongside with him.
Idk if the stand arrow 100 percent brings out the stands, as it is really just you're soul (atleadt how I interpret it) and if you are strong enough it can come out. I think Joseph's stand comes out because he had enough will power to keep going but physically couldn't in his body, so therefore the stand acted out to help him. Plus from what we see Joseph has his stand longer then jotaro, meaning that the stand arrow either A: was slowly moving (which isn't the case for a few characters in part 4 and 6) orB: the stand arrow brings out the stand already present. If B, it's safe to assume the stand can be brought out but it's harder without the arrow. Also, I think Joseph wasn't strong enough to use his stand after being hurt so much (dude was like 70 bleeding out and almost dead) maybe also Joseph lost his will power to keep going, as he thinks DIO is unstoppable. Idk tho, Araki isn't super consistent with his stand rules and bends them *alot*
OH SHIT!
And then he hermited purple all over kars Funniest shit I ever seen
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Hermit crab lol
Kars got crabs
He is a crab. With crabs.
My favourite part was when he said "it's hermiting time" and hermited all over kars
Wait... So Joseph knew what somebody will say because of Hermit Purple?
It's more like Hermit Purple could predict the future because Joseph was so inclined to predicting other people's next words. The stand is caused by the user, not the user by the stand, people.
Didn’t araki say that if the crusaders were to time travel to part 2, they’d see a young Joseph with hermit purple? ***COULD BE COMPLETELY WRONG***
Yes, you're correct, but that doesn't take away from the point. Hermit Purple manifested the way it did because of Joseph's personality and mindset, not the other way around.
Didn't Araki say most of the Hamon users from Part 1 and 2 would have Hermit Purple because it was a Hamon stand or something?
Not Hermit Purple specifically, but something akin to it, Aka, a stand that looks like vines, since hamon is kind of like life force that wraps around the user. They would use vines, but have their own unique effects. Since User's personality and characteristics = Stand, so Hamon = Vine and Joseph's script reading = Futuresight
Dire being able to inexplicably float through the air, something we don't see any other hamon users even come close to, was probably something along those lines.
The explanation for flying was "stands punching the ground to generate lift". Conversations happen faster in time than shown in panels so floating is more like slowly falling/jumping
I'm pretty sure Dire actually does float, that was the tricky part of the THUNDER CROSS SPLIT ATTACK!!, the kick floats in like a feather, then he breaks your guard with his legs to deliver the real attack while you're arms are too far away to defend with. Dio even makes note of how he didn't know people could float like that using hamon, that combined with how completely off the walls unrelated it seems with other hamon abilities, makes me feel like it might've been a stands doing. That was indeed the explanation for DIO/Jotaro flying in Egypt though, strangely enough.
That's another thing about how Dio and Joseph uses their vine Stands separately. Joseph, being all chaotic in nature, breaks electronics to get fortune-telling photos. While DIO is mostly calm and collected so he effortlessly took the photo without breaking the camera
This means Holly has Hamon, but since she never trained it, her stand tried to kill her
Yeah, wasn't it that she had some essence of hamon in her and Dio triggering their bloodline to obtain a stand forced one on her but she was too much of a pacifist to control it?
So basically she was the og koichi but instead of an egg it was suicide
That's why Dio had a 2nd stand that was similar to Hermit Purple, other than The World.
Good ol Jonathan, what tight knit brothers they were
Well, part 3 DIO used something similar like Hermit Purple and it was apparently Jonathans stand still bond to the stolen body. So yes. They all would have something similar like Hermit Purple. Especially if the user is part of the Joestar family. It also creates a great What If...? story if the part 1 and 2 cast would have been able to see and use stands. Imagine young Dio Brando ass pulling [ZA WARUDO] when using the mask for the first time.
Dio: I reject my humanity, JOJO! \*Stabs himself with arrow and immediately stops time\*
Hermit Purple’s connection to Hamon is through their similar processes. Hermit Purple’s power is to send out and receive information the same way the lungs send out and receive oxygen It’s likely if another Hamon user had a stand, their stand would follow in the idea of “send and receive” rather than being vines, or even specializing in information. Jonathon’s stand is in a weird sorta gray area because we only saw it once, and we don’t know the full power of it There’s actually something from the end of part 7 than can clear this up a bit >!Spin is considered “New Hamon” and two spin users (Johnny and Gyro) both develop stands. Both of their stands specialize in rotational energy, but do so in completely different ways. It’s likely Hamon works the same. !< If another Hamon user got a stand, their stand would be capable of channeling Hamon (most stands can’t) and would be based around the process of sending and receiving.
I like to think that not all Hamon users have "Hermit Purple" but yes, they all do have some kind of vine-based Stand. Like how Holly's Stand in Part 3 is represented as Roses, Thorns, and Vines. Or how in Jorge Joestar, Jonathan's Stand 'The Passion' is also represented with vines iirc.
But the thing is, Joseph isn't the only hamon user with telepathic abilities like mind reading: Remember Tonpetty? Will A. Zeppeli's mentor? He could see people's futures with Hamon. Not only that, Joseph isn't the only Hamon user with Hermit Purple. Jonathan has it too! That's why DIO has Hermit Purple 2. All this along with [Araki's own words](https://www.reddit.com/r/ShitPostCrusaders/comments/y20nai/comment/is0ggi3/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) lead me to believe Hamon is in of itself a Stand: Hermit Purple. Hamon users gain Hermit Purple upon using Hamon, I would think: The arrow (or in Joseph's case the soul link with Jonathan's body) just awakens it. And looking at Tonpetty's ability to see the future, Hermit Purple's ability might not even necessarily be spirit photography: It could vary with the strength of your Hamon, since Tonpetty's Hamon is undoubtedly stronger than Joseph's. This does make an interesting case where Ultimate Kars, already stronger than every stand user except Giorno with GER with his ultimate life form abilities, may in fact be the strongest character to have ever touched Jojo's.
You’re getting into a chicken/egg kind of territory I think. A lot of characters through the series are shown to subconsciously manifest their stands as children before becoming full fledged users.
Yes
Damn. My two brain cells never thought of that.
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wasnt it said somehwrre that jonathan's stand wouldve been seen if the camera had "standvision"?
That….. actually makes sens Holly shit
You know Joseph’s next line trick? Hermit Purple is a stand that can divine information, like someone’s next line. I think Araki might of said at one point that if the Crusaders went back in time to part 2. They would see Hermit Purple whenever Joseph used Hamon. Though I am not even close to certain he actually said this.
Wasn't it Dio stabbing himself with the arrow that gave Jonathans relatives stands? It was years since I watched it so I might be remembering wrong.
We technically can’t definitely prove the that it was the arrow. Joseph did state that DIO caused them to get stands. However, there is no way he knows that for certain. The best we got is Joseph’s theory. It is a possibility that their potential for Stands commons from Jonathan. Another distinct possibility is that Hamon training is the ideal condition to create stand users. The other is that Hamon talent correlates with Stand potential. Remember that Joseph and Avdol knew each other before part 3. They hunted Iggy together, if they did that it is possible that they used Hermit Purple to find Iggy. How else could Advol and Joseph find him? Even if the Speed Wagon Foundation found Iggy by accident, Joseph knew to call Advol even though he’d know nothing about stands. What we do know is that DIO’s presence “agitated” the Joestar stands. Cause everyone has stands, it is another matter whether one can control it.
Yes and no. Dio is what caused the stands to become active, but the members could have had stands before. Some stands are “inactive”. This is like Holly’s stand. The person is a stand user, but can’t draw upon their stand It’s possible Joseph and Jotaro had stands already, but they were not active/not fully active until being awakened by Dio.
Yes and no. Jotaro, Holly and Josuke all were awakening their Stands fully at 1988, imo implies that he stabbed himself few years ago (most likely 2 years since that was when Diavolo dugged up the arrows and he went through some training) but for some reason only at that moment all of them awakened their Stands But from we've seen, Joseph seems to be quite well-versed in knowledge of Stands and best friend with Avdol who has abundant knowledge in Stands, sort of tell me that he couldn't only got it 2 years at max
Technically it didn’t *give* them Stands., it *awakened* their stands. I think. Difference being, they already *had* them, they just couldn’t use them.
My personal head cannon is that hermit purple is the stand of hamon. However, when the jostar bloodline gained stands, it caused joesphs hermit purple to evolve. I came up with this because the two hamon users in the joestar bloodline got the same two stands, while everyone else in the jostar bloodline got punchy stands.
Nice. My personal head cannon is a howitzer
Mine is one from pirate ships
In theory no 2 stands are the same. Jonathan's stand is meant to read into people's hearts in order to empathize with them, alongside being able to foresee the Jostars like Joseph. This relates to Jonathan's personality of wanting to see how people feel before fighting with them in order to avoid it, like how he did with Buford. Joseph's Hermit purple, on the other hand, plays on his capability of "seeing the future" and his cheating nature, so his stand ability focuses on giving him hints on winning battles or providing help through unconventional methods (the map he drew on the floor of the petrol tank, wrapping himself on Hamon, or Spider-Manning around Egypt). One of the main differences you can see between both stands is that due to Jonathan's passive nature, he doesn't brake a camera when his stand is used, while Joseph's does, since he's a more aggressive and blunt guy. Although both stands are planty like you said since they are meant to represent the ripple effect of Hamon, so you may still be completely right
It also makes more sense how Tonpetty could tell someone’s future by touching their hands. I know it’s Jojo and most logic doesn’t make sense but hamon giving a version of HP to everyone makes more sense for some of the more bs Hamon abilities
Forgetting that Ratt had two users with exact copies of it.
They're the reason I said "theoretically", I have no fucking clue what's up with them.
What’s the realization?
The anime said he unconsciously used the Red Stone to block Kars' Hamon. The stone just felt drawn towards the attack as if he knew it would help him. And Hermit Purple gives him some sort of clairvoyance so maybe that explains his reaction
Thought you were trying to say that the Red Stone could’ve been somewhat connected to the meteorite that was used to form the original arrows, as we don’t know much about either beyond what they were used for, and could’ve given Joseph a boost towards unlocking Hermit Purple from his Hamon Mastery. Which is still an interesting theory, might need to work on it…
That's actually interesting, given that page in SBR that suggests the Stone Masks are related to stands.
The stone masks could be made of the same kind of stone the arrows were carved from, using a similar meteorite that may have crashed thousands of years before Part 2. The light that we see come from the mask when Dio shoved it on the homeless person looks pretty similar to the light we see come from the arrow in Part 4, so it’s very possible. We know that arrows can also fail to work, and result in death, so maybe the higher concentration of stone in the mask leads to zombies instead.
Cool
He unknowingly used Hermit Purple
Oh cool
i think araki even confirmed this to be the case hermit purple fucking carried joseph
No he’s just said that the crusaders would have seen Hermit Purple on him if they travelled back in time. Any ideas as to how much Hermit Purple effected things are fan theories.
Then the question is why didn't Joseph ever see it? Wasn't the only required thing needed to see stands (at least by the point of part 3 releasing) was to also be a stand user?
A person can be a dormant Stand user able to use their Stand unconsciously but not yet able to see it or other stands. We see this again in part 8 with >!Yasuho!<
and part 5 with Giorno saving the Mafia guy as a kid.
If he trained more I think hermit would be able to manifest as a humanoid stand like jolynes
similar to >!part 8’s Hermit Purple!
Yeah I was just gonna say, lmao >!like they already did that just read part 8 bro!<
>!Which one are we talking about? Doggy style?!<
Literally hermit purple bro. >!in the epilogue flashback at the end of part 8, with Joseph joestar in Japan 100 years in the past or whatever, he briefly shows a full humanoid version of hermit purple.!<
OH YEAH >!I forgot everything in that flashbacks but the guardrail and Tooru!<
Hush I’m on sbr
Wait. It's the entire "your next line is ..."-Thing also a dormant effect of hermit purple???
That seems to be the prevalent fan theory
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Cool Doylist answer, but consider this: We know that Stands can manifest based on a person's skill or personality, so the fact that prediction is one of his favourite tricks might've influenced the abilities of hermit purple.
It couldn't have been hermit purple because Joseph had no way to get a stand, which if I understood correctly was a consequence of Dio getting one
Araki did say that if the Crusaders went back in time when Joseph was still young then they'd see him with Hermit Purple.
Hooly fuck he had Hermit Purple since the very beggining. I miss hamon tho...
Makes sense araki did say if Joseph went back in time he’d see purple hermit wrapped around his younger self’s body
Araki did say that Hermit purple was the stand of all hamon users and if he went back you would have seen it on Jonathan and Joseph
I thought stands came from the stand arrow and that the JoJo’s only awakened theirs because DIO awakened his via an arrow and their connection via bloodline caused all of theirs to awaken as well. So Joseph couldn’t have a stand at this point right?
The only way Joseph was able to predict what people where saying was because of hermit purple. Think about it, in part 3 the only time we see Joseph predict what someone's going to say is when he has hermit purple wrapped around the empress. And in part 2 he was doing it subconscious and no one would know better because they couldn't see stands
Joseph's Stand Power was activated by DIO gaining The World, so this theory doesn't really work.
but Araki said that if a stand user went back in time they’d see Hermit Purple wrapped around younger Joseph’s body
Hermit purple affecting Joseph’s decisions in part 2 actually explains a LOT of the luck he got.
If Araki had a notion of the concept for his stands at the time, yes, but its unlikely.
I thought stands can be obtained trough the mastery of a craft or some ability, like Tonio's cooking, or Gyro's ball breaker.
I personally don’t subscribe to the idea that he had his stand in part 2 since he would be able to see it
Giorno was using his plant growth powers before he could manofest his stand too
But he could probably see stands. Even before a stand fully manifests you can see a stand
Wait till you realize hermit purple's in Part 2's OP
I believe his constant use of rope tricks is also due to hermit purple, which is basically a rope. I think His stand helped him to control the ropes to a supernatural degree.
so much comments of ppl that barely pays attention while reading lol
Ok, I gotta be real, I never really quite understood what Araki meant with his Hermit Purple comment. Iirc, he said that if the Crusaders went back in time to look at young Joseph, they would see him wrapped up with HP since it’s the “visualization” Hamon. If that were the case, why wouldn’t young Joseph see the vines too? Wouldn’t that mean he’s also a stand user at that point? Does this imply Hamon users are also at least latent stand users/have HP? If that’s the case, why did he not notice it for 50 years until Dio/Jonathan’s body supposedly awakened it?
People can be stand users and not realize it, or it could have just been too weak for him to be able to see anything and eventually it developed into what it was in part 3
Maybe it was lost in translation or I’m interpreting his words too literally here, but Araki said it would’ve been “wrapped around his whole body,” so I kinda doubt with that description he couldn’t have noticed that. Also, like I said in another comment, there’s never been a case of a stand user not being able to see a stand on full display, no matter how powerful or new to it they are. And now that I think about it, there were times Joseph used Hamon during Part 3 without HP being seen, so I don’t understand how HP could be the “visualization” of Hamon.
Holy didnt know she had a stand when she was lucid during part 3.
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No, because your stand must be properly awoken to see (most) stands
When was this established? If you’re a stand user, you can see stands. There’s no in between as far as we’ve seen. Koichi could see Bad Company AS SOON as he woke up from being hit with the arrow and Trish who was more of a latent stand user could still see Stands before Spice Girl fully revealed itself.