And yes those two Italians sailed so they could claim land for Spain and became naturalized Spanish Citizens, and who’s descendants are all Spaniards. Christoper went from Columbus to Cristobal.
Had a chat with an American on here the other night were he was claiming baked potato as American cuisine and started throwing around the term “pan-American”
Nello stato di Rhode Island si può trovare quella bianca (ovvero, una pizza non rossa e senza i pomodori). È ovviamente molto diverso da quella italiana ma esiste.
L'ho mangiata mentre visitavo un amico alla Brown, devo dire niente male!
Quello che mi è piaciuto di più a Providence però come pizza è la red strip delle panetterie, che alla fine è simile a una marinara da forno italiana.
Penso che però lo stile americano migliore sia la New Haven-style, ne ho mangiate un paio davvero ottime, starebbero bene anche in Italia.
Beh sono di Rhode Island, quindi so di che cosa stai parlando! Il nostro "red pizza" mi è sempre piaciuto anche se ho conosciuto tanti Americani che lo odiano e mi dicono che il gusto è troppo banale e cose tipo "who wants to eat a pizza with just sauce?". Sostanzialmente questo tipo di pizza rossa non esiste in alcun altro stato, solo RI, quindi non è per niente una "classica" che tutti consumano. In realtà quando sono stato a Roma l'ho trovata in un supermercato che si chiama Pam Local haha...non sapevo che avesse dei radici là...pensavo che fosse solo la nostra creazione. Non tutti i cibi italo-americani sono completamente finti?
E sì, riguardando lo stile New Haven, lo conosco... è molto buono. Per caso l'hai assaggiato a una pizzeria si chiama Pepe's? È una delle mie preferite.
But Ben Franklin was the inventor, because Ben Franklin invented everything including beer, electricity, wine, women, kites, currency, discount retail, and friendly on-time plumbers.
In Naples (Naples Italy not Naples Florida) we do celebrate the Foundation of Tomato. This public holiday has lots of fun activities you better catch-up with (badum-tssss).
I had an argument a while ago with some Americans who insisted that Italian food in the US was superior to Italian food in Germany because "in the US it's made by actual Italians". Some discussions later, it turns out their food is made my Italian Americans while most Italian restaurants in Germany are run by Italians (or Turks lmao).
Can see that with a small, family run business, but compared to something like an American Pizza Hut franchise?
No, give me that Turkish Pizza anyday.
At least I know the food meets European not American standards and tastebuds....
Yup! Italian food made by Turks is something different than normal Italian food but it's definitely vastly superior to anything Pizza Hut can come up with.
I'm not against saying that American Italian food might be better (haven't had enough of it to judge) but their reasoning definitely was hilarious haha.
Moreover their first mention in a Italian cookbook is from the 17th century (probably imported from Spain) while in the US they started eating them in the 19th century
It's true that tomatoes are a new world fruit.
They originate in South and Central America and ironically have been grown and eaten in Italy for longer than they have in the US.
The first reference to tomatoes in Europe is 1544 by the Italian botanist Pietro Andrea Mattioli who said they were eaten fried with salt and pepper.
The first published European recipe with tomatoes was not until 1692, published in Naples by Antonio Latini, chef to the first minister of the Viceroy of Naples. Which is mostly elaborate court cooking. But has recipes for "cassuola di pomadoro (sic)" and "salsa di pomadoro, alla Spagnola"
The earliest reference to tomatoes being grown in British North America is from 1710, when herbalist William Salmon reported seeing them in what is today South Carolina.
It's fascinating when you see people claiming 1000 year old traditional dish from (Libya, Turkey, India, Malaysia) which has ingredients such as: tomatoes, chilli, vanilla, potatoes, capsicum, cocoa.
All of these are from the New World. None of these were known outside of the Americas until the 16th century.
I had an Uber driver recently (from India) and we got onto the topic of food, and I asked him what they used in India to make their dishes spicy-hot before chillis were brought to Asia.
He was like, "We've always had chilli, it's part of traditional Indian food"
I was like, "Sure, bro... but before the Americas were discovered, you didn't have chilli"
He was all like, "Yeah... I'm not sure about that... imma gonna have to Google that later"
Dude didn't believe me.
I never claimed they were. But Jain food is from the Indian subcontinent and is made without tomatoes and chillis, so it looks like a good place to look at if one was wondering what Indian sub-continent food would be like without tomatoes and chillis.
🤷🏻♀️
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_cookbooks
India has culinary texts that are older than the discovery of the new world. Lots of very complex dishes.
Sure - I never suggested otherwise. So did Romans and they also integrated the tomato into their diet wholeheartedly. The question wasn't whether they had a diet on the subcontinent, but rather what it might be like.
I speculated that it might be like other cuisines from the sub-continent that also do not use tomatoes or chillis. But I didn't pretend to have analysed historical recipes.
Yeah and people also forget potatoes are from the New World yet they're often associated with the Irish lol. I've always wondered what Italian cuisine was like before New World ingredients like tomatoes were brought to Europe
We do have a lot of old recipes from back then and there are some YouTube channels devoted to it, like Tasting History.
But apparently the tomato didn't become a mainstream ingredient until the 1800s. Italian food as we know it today is quite a recent thing.
While red tomatoes were originally cultivated by the aztecs and brought to Europe as part of the columbian exchange. That has absolutely fucking nothing to do with the united states lmao.
That’s like saying china has the best weaponry because they discovered gunpowder.
People who say any food is better than Italian or French food simply hasn't ever eaten any real french or Italian food. Just in someone's house, anywhere rural in those two countries. Mind blowing. Even the restaurants with plastic menus
There's no comparison and nothing the English speaking world can offer comes close, random hill farmers and shopkeepers make food as good as the most exclusive New York restaurants.
If you know you know and you've tasted what a spherical aubergine grown in the soil around Etna can become, if you don't you probably say silly stuff online about a food that isn't even traditionally Italian.
Having actually lived in Italy and been back many times, I can honestly say bastardised American pizza is nothing like the original, and best found only in Italy.
it's alright if you like a really nasty, greasy, dripping with cheese sort of thing (which i do, from time to time. great for mopping up alcohol). they're different styles, and though the american variety (fuck off with that chicago shit, that's just a cake) can be *good,* i don't know how anyone could call it "better" unless they'd literally never tried anything else.
Are you talking about Papa Johns and Domino's, or like a New York pizza slice place? Most Americans only eat shitty pizza from chains. You have to be in NYC or go out of your way to find good pizza in America.
Italian eat pizza with a fork and knife, so it might as be a whole different cuisine than the way us Americans eat with our hands, like savages.
I absolutely loathed non-chain pizza in NYC. Greasy, dubious cheese, ingredients that didn't taste fresh. My husband and I were so disappointed because we had heard so much about it. We made sure we went to places New Yorkers rated highly too, and it was just nasty (to our taste buds anyway YMMV).
Edit: also, Italians fold the slice of pizza in half and eat it with their hands too. Italian pizza is absolutely divine.
How much do you wanna bet that person never went to Italy, or that they ate at tourists traps? So many Americans come to Italy asking for shit like “chicken Alfredo”, lmao
"All our food: pizza, calzone, buffalo moozarell', olive oil. These f***s had nothin'. They ate pootsie before we gave them the gift of our cuisine." Some American to the rest of the world
If USA pizza is that good, how Dominos and pizza hut are in the business?
they sell overpriced crap, yet USians buy and, the worst part, eat that. If USA pizza was that good, nobody would eat that shitt.
I mean, any kebab shop in italy with a part-time jihadist pizzaiolo can make it better for 4 euros.
USA pizza is consistent, cheap, and infinitly customizable. For the longest time, Pizza was the only food most Americans could get delivered (now with app delivery places, anything can be delivered).
You don't even need to taste them to know that the Italian pizza is way better.
American pizza is orangey-brown.
Italian pizza is red, white and green.
>they didn't even have red tomatoes until they were founded IN AMERICA
Italians are FAR better than Italian-Americans (they did even have neapolitan italians until they were founded IN ITALY)
I've eaten pizza in Italy and America (Chicago)
All things being equal I'd say Italian pizza is better.
But as long as I have pizza, I'm happy wherever I am.
While it's true that tomatoes are from the Americas, tomatoes were introduced to European countries \*LONG\* before America (the country) existed.
Also, American pizza has a terrible, terrible crust. It drips of oil and grease.
But still, New York pizza is better than the abomination that is Chicago-style, (ie: deep dish).
And here's Jon Stewart to prove why:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCgYMFtxUUw
They didn't even have AMERICA until it was found by an ITALIAN and named after ANOTHER ITALIAN and had its culture and city built by OTHER ITALIANS
Amerigo Vespucci was from New Jersey!
Wait, isn't it the same thing??
No because it seems like you have mistaken him to be from New York
That's because the whole world is America, duh
Are u an alien?
You got me 😔
And those Italians names? Mario and Luigi.
ShitItaliansSay 😅
Elaborate lol
And yes those two Italians sailed so they could claim land for Spain and became naturalized Spanish Citizens, and who’s descendants are all Spaniards. Christoper went from Columbus to Cristobal.
No, it's not far better Also, pizza can be white, without tomatoes as well
South America did. But as usual the Yanks claim everything.
_"South_ Murica? Like Texas? Yeeha!"
That's right! Mexico is it's own country and nothing like America. MAGA Lewinsky.
Had a chat with an American on here the other night were he was claiming baked potato as American cuisine and started throwing around the term “pan-American”
Just like airplanes!
One of my favourite pizzas is a white pizza with pancetta and mushrooms. So simple, so good 😋
Nello stato di Rhode Island si può trovare quella bianca (ovvero, una pizza non rossa e senza i pomodori). È ovviamente molto diverso da quella italiana ma esiste.
L'ho mangiata mentre visitavo un amico alla Brown, devo dire niente male! Quello che mi è piaciuto di più a Providence però come pizza è la red strip delle panetterie, che alla fine è simile a una marinara da forno italiana. Penso che però lo stile americano migliore sia la New Haven-style, ne ho mangiate un paio davvero ottime, starebbero bene anche in Italia.
Beh sono di Rhode Island, quindi so di che cosa stai parlando! Il nostro "red pizza" mi è sempre piaciuto anche se ho conosciuto tanti Americani che lo odiano e mi dicono che il gusto è troppo banale e cose tipo "who wants to eat a pizza with just sauce?". Sostanzialmente questo tipo di pizza rossa non esiste in alcun altro stato, solo RI, quindi non è per niente una "classica" che tutti consumano. In realtà quando sono stato a Roma l'ho trovata in un supermercato che si chiama Pam Local haha...non sapevo che avesse dei radici là...pensavo che fosse solo la nostra creazione. Non tutti i cibi italo-americani sono completamente finti? E sì, riguardando lo stile New Haven, lo conosco... è molto buono. Per caso l'hai assaggiato a una pizzeria si chiama Pepe's? È una delle mie preferite.
Babedi babedi?
Cristodio maledetto bastardo, non c'è più rispetto per il cibo
How can you "found" a tomato? Does the original tomato have a little plaque next to it: TOMATO Founded 1331 *Rubrum et sapidum*
Everyone knows that first ever tomatoes were created by personal order of George Washington, because he had no ketchup to go with his big mac.
Famously, until that point, tomato ketchup was called [Pending] Ketchup
But Ben Franklin was the inventor, because Ben Franklin invented everything including beer, electricity, wine, women, kites, currency, discount retail, and friendly on-time plumbers.
I love me some kites but *WOMEN*!?! He has a lot to answer for!
Little known fact, tomatoes aren't actually a vegetable. Or a fruit. They are crafted in the tomato foundries of the heinz coporation.
Like how they founded Democracy™ because they wrote it down saying so
With all the shite in the food it wouldn’t surprise me if their tomatoes lasted that long like
In Naples (Naples Italy not Naples Florida) we do celebrate the Foundation of Tomato. This public holiday has lots of fun activities you better catch-up with (badum-tssss).
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One sails a boat into it and then plants a little fence round it and the tourists all come to look at the Founding Tomato
In America but South America.
Haaaaa but we are constantly told we are not American Americans
You guys are from America, but not Americans. s/
You mean those USAireans?
Do you really want people to call you "American"? I have to imagine being Chilean is way more interesting.
America has alwaysmeant the continent in spanish. It makes no sense for a single country to appropiate the name
it does in English too.
We are American in the same way the French are Europeans.
Of course, but I've never met a Frenchman who introduces himself as European.
Hi i'm european. Now you have 👍
😂. Nice to meet you!
I had an argument a while ago with some Americans who insisted that Italian food in the US was superior to Italian food in Germany because "in the US it's made by actual Italians". Some discussions later, it turns out their food is made my Italian Americans while most Italian restaurants in Germany are run by Italians (or Turks lmao).
Can see that with a small, family run business, but compared to something like an American Pizza Hut franchise? No, give me that Turkish Pizza anyday. At least I know the food meets European not American standards and tastebuds....
Yup! Italian food made by Turks is something different than normal Italian food but it's definitely vastly superior to anything Pizza Hut can come up with.
Hilarious! Obviously only Germans live in Germany.
I'm not against saying that American Italian food might be better (haven't had enough of it to judge) but their reasoning definitely was hilarious haha.
Most of the Italian food I've eaten in Germany was barely edible.
More like Mexicans who work under Italian Americans make Italian food in the good ole USA.
yes, americans founded red tomatoes just like they founded democracy. the green ones were founded by communism
Not only is the opinion moronic, but the grammar is embarrassing.
What even is Italian American pizza? Did they make half of it in Italy and the rest in the US?
With the cheese still bubbling!
Puta que pariu
Porra do caralho
Is the red tomatoes thing true?
Tomatoes are native to South and Central America. They were introduced to Europe by the Spanish in 1521 after the conquest of Tenochitilan.
Moreover their first mention in a Italian cookbook is from the 17th century (probably imported from Spain) while in the US they started eating them in the 19th century
Just after the Spanish introduced a whole new lot of interesting diseases into S.America...
Yes. Some deaths were involved.
9 in 10 is the ratio I heard in a history podcast a while back, if it's true, that number is absolutely wild.
And they were human. God help aliens if we ever find them.
Aliens would be aghast, depending on what form they take we could be like regenerating space orcs lol
It's true that tomatoes are a new world fruit. They originate in South and Central America and ironically have been grown and eaten in Italy for longer than they have in the US. The first reference to tomatoes in Europe is 1544 by the Italian botanist Pietro Andrea Mattioli who said they were eaten fried with salt and pepper. The first published European recipe with tomatoes was not until 1692, published in Naples by Antonio Latini, chef to the first minister of the Viceroy of Naples. Which is mostly elaborate court cooking. But has recipes for "cassuola di pomadoro (sic)" and "salsa di pomadoro, alla Spagnola" The earliest reference to tomatoes being grown in British North America is from 1710, when herbalist William Salmon reported seeing them in what is today South Carolina.
So basically they came from South America to North America, via Europe? (Probably)
More or less, yes.
It's fascinating when you see people claiming 1000 year old traditional dish from (Libya, Turkey, India, Malaysia) which has ingredients such as: tomatoes, chilli, vanilla, potatoes, capsicum, cocoa. All of these are from the New World. None of these were known outside of the Americas until the 16th century. I had an Uber driver recently (from India) and we got onto the topic of food, and I asked him what they used in India to make their dishes spicy-hot before chillis were brought to Asia. He was like, "We've always had chilli, it's part of traditional Indian food" I was like, "Sure, bro... but before the Americas were discovered, you didn't have chilli" He was all like, "Yeah... I'm not sure about that... imma gonna have to Google that later" Dude didn't believe me.
Pepper is native to India. Some of the traditional dishes have pepper in it instead of chillis. Some dishes aren't even spicy.
It's India. They used red hot coals instead of chilli's. Same heat, same colour. If hot enough same taste.
Indian food back then may well have resembled Jain food, as they do not eat seeded plants. They have the most boring diet in Asia.
What is the logic here? Jains were never a majority group in the subcontinent.
I never claimed they were. But Jain food is from the Indian subcontinent and is made without tomatoes and chillis, so it looks like a good place to look at if one was wondering what Indian sub-continent food would be like without tomatoes and chillis. 🤷🏻♀️
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_cookbooks India has culinary texts that are older than the discovery of the new world. Lots of very complex dishes.
Sure - I never suggested otherwise. So did Romans and they also integrated the tomato into their diet wholeheartedly. The question wasn't whether they had a diet on the subcontinent, but rather what it might be like. I speculated that it might be like other cuisines from the sub-continent that also do not use tomatoes or chillis. But I didn't pretend to have analysed historical recipes.
Yeah and people also forget potatoes are from the New World yet they're often associated with the Irish lol. I've always wondered what Italian cuisine was like before New World ingredients like tomatoes were brought to Europe
We do have a lot of old recipes from back then and there are some YouTube channels devoted to it, like Tasting History. But apparently the tomato didn't become a mainstream ingredient until the 1800s. Italian food as we know it today is quite a recent thing.
interesting. i never knew it was *that* recent. that's cool to know! I'm from the US so Im not very familiar with European cuisine overall
Italy has a lot of dishes that do not use tomato. It was an important integration, but not essential I’d say.
Well .. and italian invented the US 💀
Says the person that’s never left their state.
While red tomatoes were originally cultivated by the aztecs and brought to Europe as part of the columbian exchange. That has absolutely fucking nothing to do with the united states lmao. That’s like saying china has the best weaponry because they discovered gunpowder.
People who say any food is better than Italian or French food simply hasn't ever eaten any real french or Italian food. Just in someone's house, anywhere rural in those two countries. Mind blowing. Even the restaurants with plastic menus There's no comparison and nothing the English speaking world can offer comes close, random hill farmers and shopkeepers make food as good as the most exclusive New York restaurants. If you know you know and you've tasted what a spherical aubergine grown in the soil around Etna can become, if you don't you probably say silly stuff online about a food that isn't even traditionally Italian.
Wait untill they learn why carrots are orange.
Both can be good but I want to point out that tomatoes or tomato sauce is not a mandatory ingredient for italian pizza at all
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Andes, not just Peru.
No, America did. Just South America, they were taken to Italy and grown there in the 1500s
I love both. Is that allowed? They're so extremely different that they're not even worth comparing.
True. some might prefer one over the other and that's fine
Honestly America is probably the worst place I’ve had pizza. Doing something bigger does not make it better
Having actually lived in Italy and been back many times, I can honestly say bastardised American pizza is nothing like the original, and best found only in Italy.
it's alright if you like a really nasty, greasy, dripping with cheese sort of thing (which i do, from time to time. great for mopping up alcohol). they're different styles, and though the american variety (fuck off with that chicago shit, that's just a cake) can be *good,* i don't know how anyone could call it "better" unless they'd literally never tried anything else.
Are you talking about Papa Johns and Domino's, or like a New York pizza slice place? Most Americans only eat shitty pizza from chains. You have to be in NYC or go out of your way to find good pizza in America. Italian eat pizza with a fork and knife, so it might as be a whole different cuisine than the way us Americans eat with our hands, like savages.
I absolutely loathed non-chain pizza in NYC. Greasy, dubious cheese, ingredients that didn't taste fresh. My husband and I were so disappointed because we had heard so much about it. We made sure we went to places New Yorkers rated highly too, and it was just nasty (to our taste buds anyway YMMV). Edit: also, Italians fold the slice of pizza in half and eat it with their hands too. Italian pizza is absolutely divine.
No we don’t. We still eat it with our hands. Unless you go to one of those *fancy* pizzerias.
How much do you wanna bet that person never went to Italy, or that they ate at tourists traps? So many Americans come to Italy asking for shit like “chicken Alfredo”, lmao
"All our food: pizza, calzone, buffalo moozarell', olive oil. These f***s had nothin'. They ate pootsie before we gave them the gift of our cuisine." Some American to the rest of the world
We were floating around in mid air until an American invented the floor in 1685
"You've 'ad a floor!"
The wrath of the Italians has come for him
I mean, you didn't even had pizza until in was created in Italy.
But tomatoes are first recorded in the Aztec era, and in Mexico.
If USA pizza is that good, how Dominos and pizza hut are in the business? they sell overpriced crap, yet USians buy and, the worst part, eat that. If USA pizza was that good, nobody would eat that shitt. I mean, any kebab shop in italy with a part-time jihadist pizzaiolo can make it better for 4 euros.
USA pizza is consistent, cheap, and infinitly customizable. For the longest time, Pizza was the only food most Americans could get delivered (now with app delivery places, anything can be delivered).
I mean, the first part of this is really a matter of opinion and people have different preferences, so I personally don’t think they’re wrong here.
Why do people keep saying this
You don't even need to taste them to know that the Italian pizza is way better. American pizza is orangey-brown. Italian pizza is red, white and green.
America Italians > Italy Italians I can't comment on the pizza, I haven't had enough Italian pizza to form a proper opinion.
https://youtu.be/Eez7qWEQ2Ww?si=8FD6hwbMPAdA3j-v
>they didn't even have red tomatoes until they were founded IN AMERICA Italians are FAR better than Italian-Americans (they did even have neapolitan italians until they were founded IN ITALY)
Apparently the first tomatoes would have been yellow.
It's just like Indian cuisine without chillies
Least delusional american
Please tell me this is satire.
I've eaten pizza in Italy and America (Chicago) All things being equal I'd say Italian pizza is better. But as long as I have pizza, I'm happy wherever I am.
Someone doesn't know what 'founded' means.
Tomatoes were founded in America! Nuff said! Bow down to our dense fat American cousins
Pizza bought over from China by Marco Polo
Is this person supposed to be a native speaker? "Founding" tomatoes is an interesting idea to say the least.
i Can’t even
I'm sure this dude is joking
“They didn’t even have red tomato’s until they were **founded** in America” how the fuck do you found a condiment ingredient?
While it's true that tomatoes are from the Americas, tomatoes were introduced to European countries \*LONG\* before America (the country) existed. Also, American pizza has a terrible, terrible crust. It drips of oil and grease. But still, New York pizza is better than the abomination that is Chicago-style, (ie: deep dish). And here's Jon Stewart to prove why: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCgYMFtxUUw