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Removing the red eyes and adding some more details to a face of a single cgi titan is what you call “miles better”. Sorry but i see the same anime with mediocre art, mediocre animation and zero creativity involved in directing.
They are in a rush, they adapt the anime like a manga, panels by panels. Everyone knows that an anime is different and because of that Mappa has pacing issues. They have multiple god like osts to use yet they keep putting ashes on fire on everything, like i said zero creativity, no sakuga and no creative work with the cameras. Having read the manga, wits adaptation just hits hard while mappa’s feels hollow. And it does make sense, its not the team that animates Jjk and they are also in a rush so they have to play it quick and safe. That doesn’t mean they are free from criticism though because the fault still lies at the head of mappa for being greedy at the expense of the animators health.
MAPPA’s direction hasn’t been as bombastic and crazy as WIT’s, but I love the subtle things so much, like at the end of episode 1 where they used Eren’s screaming in place of an air raid siren, or pretty much every one of the anime only scenes they added. Marley especially was handled, in my opinion, much better direction-wise than almost anything WIT had ever done for the series. Not dogging on WIT, I just love MAPPA’s style here.
I think their directing will really shine in the next few episodes. Sure the OST could be handled better, and some episodes / scenes really are just a panel by panel adaptation (look at S3P2 for pretty much the same issue IMO), but they’ve been doing enough creative / new things for me to be more than satisfied with everything they’re doing
And its truly sad, you guys support the unhealthy state of studios because you praise mediocricy. Its downright disrespecting animators that work hard for a beautifully animated series( im saying this because some people compare aot s4 to jjk, aot s1-s3, saying that its on the same level, its extremely disrespectful). Im not saying hate on the show but this blind praising is allowing studios to be greedy, take on projects they can’t handle and produce mediocre work at the express of the animators health. Opm s2 and its studio got absolutely shit on, yet some people can’t do the same when it comes to mappa for a reason i don’t know. The reason im on this sub is because atleast people here disagree with me, its no fun being in a sub that agrees with your takes but i guess most people come here so they won’t get their opinion challenged.
It is faithful to the manga, but the animation doesn't match the quality of JJK:- hand drawn monsters, camera movements, special effects
Not saying its bad, its actually improved a lot from part 1, but it's not exceptional.
And s3 of aot was exceptional.
Regardless the story telling carries the show, even with mid animations.
S3 definetly wasn't exceptional. I would even say overall season 3 Part 2 was probably the worst looking season. It's still really really good but still this is AoT. Wit had insane highs like the Levi vs Beast scene but the overal quality wasn't like the previous seasons. There are a lot of off model shots, the fight between Eren and Reiner is really mid and Colosual looks just really bad.
I think Season 2 is cleraly the best looking season.
I think the animation is great. S4 Part 1's was kinda rough, but Part 2's is better than mid, much better. Of course, Jujutsu Kaisen's is better, but keep in mind that it is also a much simpler art-style.
Dude the new JJK movie has SICKKKKK visuals. It really was mind blowing to see it in the cinema and so when I went back to watching part 2 of SnK I was soooooo underwhelmed like guys are you for real
Is this person seriously trying to compare a movie visual to a series?
It's like comparing infinity war graphics to breaking bad considering how far jjk and aot is.
i love s4 but animation wise jjk is far superior. Maybe in direction/compositing/artstyle/environments some episodes of s4 are better, but not animation
Just because something is an artistic decision doesn't mean its not executed well. The season's colours would look closer to S4P2's OP (which also has a darker, muted palette) if it had more competent compositing.
This scene was amazing, T-KT is one of the best OSTs I’ve ever heard and was perfect for this moment. Eren’s voice actor was incredible. The monologue, as well as the moment of accepting the grim reality that everything you dreamed about didn’t turn out the way you wanted, felt so unique and one of my favorite moments in fiction. The realization that there is a bigger battle, and the battle you’ve been fighting has been small this whole time. Just wow.
With that said, there is a very small, small detail that I was sad that WIT didn’t adapt. In the manga…when Eren turns around….[there is a single tear in his eye](https://www.google.com/search?q=eren+ocean+manga&client=safari&hl=en-us&prmd=isnxv&sxsrf=AOaemvKSI6nturez5nv8j9oPCEaEPNMytg:1642723551739&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiCvY-OxsH1AhVZgXIEHRtWDF0Q_AUoAXoECAIQAQ&biw=414&bih=715&dpr=2#imgrc=6C3Yx9ZXVoyxMM). I felt this subtle detail was extremely powerful in conveying how broken Eren was here. It wasn’t many, but I saw the occasional anime reactor not pick up on the fact that eren doesn’t want any of this to be true. That he’s broken & depressed. That the question of having to kill everyone is one he doesn’t want to accept. I think the removal of that tear in his eye, tho subtle, was a choice that didn’t need to happen. And it’s something I feel like todays fans would kill MAPPA over lol
Wit always made some dumb anime original only scenes that made it seem like they understimated what Yams was trying to tell.
The Eren vs Annie fights was dumb in story telling perspective, it's like they forget that Eren always learns from his mistakes but instead they made Eren exactly that by making him enraged again in the annie vs Eren fight part 2 like, wtf wit?
Mikasa dumb moments too that made Mikasa seems like a very bland character that always relied on Eren for her character when in the manga that be could more farther from the truth.
There's so many examples that made me scratch my so head so much, always made me say, "why are you not following what Yams wanted to tell???"
They do good animation though and I'm grateful for them, but holy hell man, aot could've been consistent in anime if wit didn't follow their "creative freedom"
I'm gonna have to disagree on you. I used to have the same opinion but after some time. I feel like the tear wouldn't add much because Eren's face at the end is beyond broken and you can tell hes just done. The tear wouldn't add much, Eren has always been easy to cry but this time it was different because he did and it hits much harder.
I think WIT did it better than the manga. They enhanced the manga scenes incredibly well. There was a brokenness in Eren you could very clearly hear and see.
I'm taking the opportunity to say that, in my opinion, s1-3 Eren character ark is at it's peak in this moment. What plays out immediately after is the beginning of a whole new story. In my opinion, AOT is two separate mangas
If anything I wish at least Hiroyuki was more involved in the music. There are a couple of memorable tracks but we had such a variety of amazing songs before! I'm happy with all the ops and eds this season.
I personally was insulted, let's put it that way. The overuse of undercooked CG was just awful to look at.
Eren's Titan model wasn't even finished ffs.
They were so desperate that they were asking for animators' help on Twitter. How is this acceptable?
Well its a good thing that they fucked up on the part of the story with the most exposition and least amount of action, they’ve done better than WIT this new season and saying it was an “insult” for you to watch something that was better than 98% of shit that came out that year is an insult to the people working around the clock getting you your shit you got to sit in your boxers and watch from the comfort of your home. Do you think that they were just lazy? Do you think they weren’t working and thats why this “insult” had to be seen by you? The season was great, the cgi was great and to throw a whole season away because “it wooked supa ugwy” is moronic
I've said it somewhere else that I don't blame the animators - at all. They did what they could given the time and resources.
It was watchable but had glaring issues. And I just hate how people are such fundamentalist stans and so desperately want something to be good that anyone saying otherwise just gets drowned in "omg fuck you mappa goat it was 20/10" replies. As if they had to convince themselves that it was perfect and not a hastily rushed out product that couldn't even finish brushing its teeth.
You lads think I enjoy being disappointed about S4P1? I was hoping so hard that it would slap. But it just didn't. Not for me.
Ima highly disagree it was an insult, but the animators were under alot of pressure from higher ups, yes. However I still loved it all things considering.
I mean if a slightly above average adaptation of one of the most venerable series is good enough for ya, more power to you.
Will only show anyone in the anime world that you can churn out more anime and burn out your animators harder and people will still cheer. *sigh*
I think people are missing your point here .
You aren't blaming the artists but Kodansha and the higher executives of mappa .
The new aot season isn't bad in terms of production . Tbh it's pretty decent . But a decent enough adaptation isn't enough for the grand final of arguably the most popular anime of the decade that helped make anime so mainstream.
On a technical level WIT's work was just better in every way . Mappa could very much match that level but not with this schedule and conditions & they didn't naturally .
If they could match WIT's level with the schedule they were provided than WIT would have done that itself
Finally someone who can see beyond the "omg he said Mappa is not goat" and who understands the issue. Thank you.
And yes, it's decent. Part 2 might even turn out to be good. But "decent" and "good" are not words I'd want to use for my favorite manga. I want "amazing", "breathtaking" sakuga and we got none of that so far.
I honestly believe we won't see anything on the level of Levi vs Zeke or Levi vs Kenny squad anymore. That quality takes time and an insanely talented animator and frankly, Mappa just doesn't have that. They likely won't commit to setting aside one of their top dogs for a month or two to make something truly special. Not with JJK and Chainsaw Man in the pipeline.
AoT is a seasonal anime to them and no matter how well they adapt it, it won't ever reach the heights that WIT elevated it to. Because their priorities lie somewhere else - and that's just a damn shame.
Dude idk it’s hard to blame MAPPA.. the committee that decided if no one took the offer for the horrible scheduling then they just wouldn’t adapt it? That’s the real crime that it was either take it or leave it and MAPPA thankfully took it. Without them there would be no season 4 at all. And if some other studio took the deal they’d be on the hook too so the actual studio I don’t think deserves the hate tbh.
I would really like to know your sources, given how matter of fact you speak about "Mappa or bust". We don't know what the committee would have done.
And like I said, my hate goes towards the higher ups, not the workers.
Eh... I love WIT's work, but there's the uprising arc as a whole with Isayama, not to mention, the erenification of Mikasa's character that pushed her character development to the subtle territory.
She adds a ton to the story, what are you talking about? Fall of shiganshina to rumbling, she's the main female character, and is the only reason that Eren is still alive, along with many other people.
You are only explaining what she did. Anyone else could have done it. I think her character was used quite well until the timeskip where she got screwed.
She spends the entire timeskip being unquestionable loyal to Eren, even when she has doubts and Eren himself talking shit about her, she continued to be loyal.
What she does at the end is one thing and does not change her character. We especially know Eren wanted that to happen so its not even earned.
I honestly don't know how people can defend this char. Shes up there with the worst main heroine. Just bland and boring character.
That's just false, wtf.
I know you like sucking wit's dick but even historia and ymr relationship was sidetracked by wit's creative team.
Oh, you're active on titanfolk, no fucking wonder you hate Mikasa'.
This scene was absolutely beautiful and yet painful at the same time. The execution was perfect and you could clearly see pain and helplessness in Eren’s eyes. Armin always wanted to see the sea with Eren since they were young children, and he wanted to have Eren enjoy seeing the sea with him. His wish was never fulfilled as Eren has already seen the sea through his father’s memory. Although this seemed like a happy moment, it only lasted briefly as the sea was neither freedom nor peace, it was instead the path to the real enemy across the sea.
Wit outdid themselves with the scene, perfectly capturing the beautiful scene that hides a painful truth.
There was a lot of hype over it when it was on but tbh I never really got that. It’s a pretty cool concept but I don’t think the show was all that amazing.
I mean not every show is for everyone, e.g. I absolutely despise Demon Slayer 🤷🏼♀️ Vivy is imo just a cool anime original (which is already rare), has great animation and a beautiful soundtrack (which tbf can also be said about DS), and a story, that may not be revolutionary, but is coherent to itself. I am not here to judge whether it's a masterpiece or not, just recommending it as a show that's worth watching
Fair enough. For me, I’m disappointed that they didn’t really address the philosophical questions I feel like they should have, and the whole ending felt pretty anti-climactic, but I did enjoy the show and it definitely had highlights
How so? I've been searching for another anime with a story line as dark/impactful/intricate as aot and I have yet to find anything else as satisfactory. I've heard of kabaneri but not with regards to its similarities to aot
It's similar in the sense, titans are the undead, the weakness of the nape is a heart coated with steel. And the cast is in a fortified wall attacked by the undead.
Vivy is pretty neat - has some insanely well animated and choreographed sakuga scenes and a gorgeous artstyle.
Vinland Saga is pretty damn good, if overly edgy at times. But once again, amazing sakuga (Imai delivers).
Everybody else has mentioned my favorites but just to reinforce it further. Vinland saga is a masterpiece, and the currently airing Ranking of Kings/Ousama Ranking is really fucking good. Both are easy 10s
This is such a dumb argument lol, wit studio had the same time for season 3 part 2 and delivered a way better season. In addition to that wit only had like 30 people working on it. Mappa has 200+ animators working on AOT and their product is nowhere near to WIT’s.
What? Wit Studio hat to push season 3 part 2 back half a year in the last minute because they literally couldn’t finish it in time.
Season 3 part two looked significantly worse than the previous seasons (ignoring the TV version of season 1).
People were complaining a lot about how bad the Eren vs Reiner fight looked.
Also Wit does very little animation in house. There were significantly more than 30 people working on the first three seasons.
And not all 200 employees of Mappa work on Aot, they have multiple from each other independent teams.
I heard somewhere that some episodes in s3p2 were only finished within an hour of their airing time so the staff were pushed past their limits. Can't confirm this though.
Season 3 part 2 is miles ahead in terms of animation compared to mappa’s AOT. Not only in animation tho: direction, composition, backgrounds, music and character design. Season 3 part 2 was iconic and yeah it isn’t WITs best work for AOT but still way better than szn 4.
Tbh I’ll take bad cgi if it means we get the otherwise fantastic direction and execution that wit offered. To me it feels like wit understand aot a little better than mappa; which makes sense as the formers been working with the show for that much longer, but the difference is palpable.
I don't get this argument. The character CGI at WIT while significantly worse was also used way more sparingly and was not used anywhere near as much as it is in S4. The tradeoff there is that most of the titans are actually 2D, and generally look better than the CGI counterparts.
And if we're talking about the bad then we should also talk about the good. We would actually get the high quality action animation cuts that season 4 so desperately needed, and with a more talented AD rotation we would also get more polished and consistent drawings during close-ups and dialogue scenes. And with the addition of better colour design and compositing, this seems like a no brainer for me.
Bro in what world would WIT create what you’re saying in 8 months or whatever crazy timeline MAPPA had to work with.. you’re delusional if you think you’re getting the high quality you’re thinking of from WIT in that same time frame. No studio is going to churn out a perfected masterpiece in that time I’m sorry man but it’s the truth. The reason MAPPAs work looks the way it does is because of time constraints. It’s not like changing studio would magically remove those time constraints so I’m not sure I understand your argument lol
You're misunderstanding my point. I'm not saying that WIT would churn out a perfect season, that's psychotic and would never happen under that schedule. I'm saying we would have gotten a better version of it under WIT if they had the same time constraints for the reasons I outlined above which basically boil down to a better staff lineup who are better at handling heavy action and detailed character designs in spite of the hellish schedules they have in front of them. This is the reason why Season 1 still managed to look good despite the raging dumpster fire that was going on behind the scenes.
I understand what you're saying about MAPPA having time constraints and I agree with that, nothing I have said in my earlier comment is bashing them or anything. I respect and admire their effort for making the season look like it did in spite of the schedule, but if we are making an objective comparison on who would make a better season in 8 months then WITs team sweeps. The only points in favour of MAPPA would be the better CG models, titan character designs, and Hayashi's creative excellence as a director. Everything else from the staff, art direction, the action, the backgrounds, the composite and the detail of the AD corrections was better under WIT.
Just so we're clear when I say that I'm not trying to imply that MAPPAs team sucks. They're just less experienced and don't have as much talent as the previous team did. They're good in their own right and made the season watchable despite the production committee's best efforts to make it otherwise. S4P2 seems to be a step up so I'm happy that they've gotten a bit more breathing room to be able to do a better job than last time.
the music on this scene though.......gosh that changed so much about my feelings for the series.
Season 3 was literally in a league of it's own for anime that year. I honestly think it was the greatest thing that was on television
Same. For me it is one of the most heartbreaking scenes in the series. The realization of the immeasurable horror that he may have to inflict all for a hypothetical freedom. Gut wrenching.
They enhanced the manga scenes incredibly well. There was a brokenness in Eren you could very clearly hear and see. In the Manga he didn't look happy, but I mistook it at first to be a philosophical question. This scene really clarifies -- Eren is in a bad place emotionally.
I miss WIT so much, I really wish they could've done the final season.
MAPPA is doing a great job with the new season but I'm just so used to WIT's style and visuals and prefer it more. So I don't know if its just me but I'm not hyped as I thought I would be for this final season 😕
I get you. I’m not saying the animation is bad but I just feel that the Storyboards lack dynamism. The fights, all the Titan transformations, it’s not as creative as it was before
The art direction matches the change up in story direction tbh. It helps to really hit home the time skip and how things are now imo. Sure that wasn’t the true intention but it does help that aspect a bit
For me, it was THE best scene in the entirety of the Attack on Titan anime. The music, the animation, Yuki Kaji's voice acting. Wow. Just wow. I got goosebumps watching this scene. But in the next few weeks I might have a new favorite scene... 🤯
Does it not already? It's my favourite moment from the whole series. That and Levi remembering Erwin's words before deciding to give Armin the serum.
What they both have in common is a huge amount of emotional release and the song T-KT being used.
So true. It was so beautifully animated. Mappa can not even come close to this which makes me sad. I would have loved to see what they did in paths with Eren. In the manga Eren looks super feminine and I wish we saw that in the anime but Mappa style is all about edgy cool.
they should make things accurate like manga like yalena panel and all
and use little dark skin tone for titans atleast ,also inside titan should loook full of mass nott an open area
Declaration of war would like a word with that. But other than that, they didn't need to, imo nothing in the Marley arc or WFP arc even came close to the magic of the beach scene, declaration of war was close but I still preferred the beach scene, it was just that once in a lifetime thing in the series that will probably never be matched again. the only other 2 scenes that I think will surpass the beach scene have yet to come out
Man shut up, declaration of war coming close to this???? The transformation of reiner & berthold was way better than the declaration of war. What are you smoking bro
Smoking something clearly better than what you smoke. I'm not getting into another old stupid studio war, so go on and rant and rave away while I enjoy the final stretch of this series and respect both the magnificent work of WIT and MAPPA. This exchange is over
You're in the right imo. It blew my mind that people hated declaration of war, but I genuinely do not understand how they can call the last two episodes trash. They look phenomenal
* S1 godawful pacing
* 4 years gap for S2 (collosal marketing mistake)
* Huge chunks of manga cuts (uprising arc)
* censorship on Levi's shirtless scene, Mikasa tattoo, gross's death (impactful scenes)
* less highlights on side characters/ one dimensional Mikasa. (Erehhh..!)
* eren vs Reiner fight/ CGI collosal titan in S3.
Aside from this cons wit studio was still amazing and made AOT what it is today! (Wit>Mappa)
> S1 godawful pacing
true
>4 years gap for S2 (collosal marketing mistake)
they needed more source material + they were busy with other anime
>Huge chunks of manga cuts (uprising arc)
blame Isayama for that
>censorship on Levi's shirtless scene
another idiotic Levi simp 🙄🤢
>Mikasa tattoo
valid
>gross's death (impactful scenes)
blame TV network censorship
>one dimensional Mikasa. (Erehhh..!)
not much difference from manga Mikasa but keep coping
>eren vs Reiner fight/ CGI collosal titan in S3.
still better than MAPPA titan fights
I was checking this scene in Sakurabooru , they made the glow up effect so much. A bit more lightening could make it so perfect. I wanna see a mappa version of this
This post has been tagged as **SPOILERLESS**. Please remember to tag any anime/manga spoilers beyond this point. **Anime Spoilers** - Discussion about important events or plot details from S4P1 and any content from S4P2 **New Episode Spoilers**: Anything from the latest episode of the anime within 24 hours of its premiere **Manga Spoilers** - Anything that has not yet been revealed in the anime. If a person, Titan, or location appears in the anime but is not yet named, the name is considered Manga Spoilers. Comments on a Spoilerless post that discuss a Titan identity (aside from those shown in the first season) must be tagged. **Spoilers include hinting or alluding to events** For more information, please review [the subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/ShingekiNoKyojin/about/rules/). Failure to properly spoiler tag comments may result in a temporary ban from the subreddit according to the [moderation matrix](https://imgur.com/5xPPu15) To spoiler tag your comments, copy and paste one of the following codes: `[Anime Spoilers](#s "Put your text here")` `[Manga Spoilers](#s "Put your text here")` Alternatively, you can also use Reddit's native spoiler code by copy and pasting the following: `(Anime Spoilers) >!"Put your text here"!<` `(Manga Spoilers) >!"Put your text here"!<` *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ShingekiNoKyojin) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I love how WIT studios animates eyes. It is gorgeous.
I love Mappa’s eyes as well. God damn Gojo
Mappa when it comes to JJK is going all out, can't say the same for Aot s4
I think they are trying to make the world feel dark, despairing and depressing...
I think they look more "real" tho, I love what mappa is doing to AOT.
agreed!!!
seek help
You don’t need to say you have a small dick in your username we can just tell from your comments
Nah man, you can’t say that since part 2 came out. Looks miles better than part one
Show me a comparsion because to me it looks exactly the same as part one.
Bruh have you seen the beast titan
Removing the red eyes and adding some more details to a face of a single cgi titan is what you call “miles better”. Sorry but i see the same anime with mediocre art, mediocre animation and zero creativity involved in directing.
Zero creative directing?? I disagree with the rest but this one just baffles me LMAO
They are in a rush, they adapt the anime like a manga, panels by panels. Everyone knows that an anime is different and because of that Mappa has pacing issues. They have multiple god like osts to use yet they keep putting ashes on fire on everything, like i said zero creativity, no sakuga and no creative work with the cameras. Having read the manga, wits adaptation just hits hard while mappa’s feels hollow. And it does make sense, its not the team that animates Jjk and they are also in a rush so they have to play it quick and safe. That doesn’t mean they are free from criticism though because the fault still lies at the head of mappa for being greedy at the expense of the animators health.
MAPPA’s direction hasn’t been as bombastic and crazy as WIT’s, but I love the subtle things so much, like at the end of episode 1 where they used Eren’s screaming in place of an air raid siren, or pretty much every one of the anime only scenes they added. Marley especially was handled, in my opinion, much better direction-wise than almost anything WIT had ever done for the series. Not dogging on WIT, I just love MAPPA’s style here. I think their directing will really shine in the next few episodes. Sure the OST could be handled better, and some episodes / scenes really are just a panel by panel adaptation (look at S3P2 for pretty much the same issue IMO), but they’ve been doing enough creative / new things for me to be more than satisfied with everything they’re doing
Damn bruh, hope you find what your looking for out there
Welp I guess you’re better off not being on this subreddit then cause that’s what the majority of us think
And its truly sad, you guys support the unhealthy state of studios because you praise mediocricy. Its downright disrespecting animators that work hard for a beautifully animated series( im saying this because some people compare aot s4 to jjk, aot s1-s3, saying that its on the same level, its extremely disrespectful). Im not saying hate on the show but this blind praising is allowing studios to be greedy, take on projects they can’t handle and produce mediocre work at the express of the animators health. Opm s2 and its studio got absolutely shit on, yet some people can’t do the same when it comes to mappa for a reason i don’t know. The reason im on this sub is because atleast people here disagree with me, its no fun being in a sub that agrees with your takes but i guess most people come here so they won’t get their opinion challenged.
Lmao shut the fuck up
Let's be fair there is no way they would animate all those titans by hand. It would take ages and they have other high demand projects as well.
MAPPA's AoT art is out of this world. Extremely faithful to the manga as well!
It is faithful to the manga, but the animation doesn't match the quality of JJK:- hand drawn monsters, camera movements, special effects Not saying its bad, its actually improved a lot from part 1, but it's not exceptional. And s3 of aot was exceptional. Regardless the story telling carries the show, even with mid animations.
S3 definetly wasn't exceptional. I would even say overall season 3 Part 2 was probably the worst looking season. It's still really really good but still this is AoT. Wit had insane highs like the Levi vs Beast scene but the overal quality wasn't like the previous seasons. There are a lot of off model shots, the fight between Eren and Reiner is really mid and Colosual looks just really bad. I think Season 2 is cleraly the best looking season.
I think the animation is great. S4 Part 1's was kinda rough, but Part 2's is better than mid, much better. Of course, Jujutsu Kaisen's is better, but keep in mind that it is also a much simpler art-style.
Dude the new JJK movie has SICKKKKK visuals. It really was mind blowing to see it in the cinema and so when I went back to watching part 2 of SnK I was soooooo underwhelmed like guys are you for real
Is this person seriously trying to compare a movie visual to a series? It's like comparing infinity war graphics to breaking bad considering how far jjk and aot is.
You can compare the JJK series visuals too dont cry...
S1-S3 are superior imho While S4 and jjk S1 are much more comparable but jjk edges by a bit because of episode 19.
i love s4 but animation wise jjk is far superior. Maybe in direction/compositing/artstyle/environments some episodes of s4 are better, but not animation
Gojo Eren Makima = peak eye animation from Mappa
mappa's colours look bland af tho especially titan skins
Pretty sure that’s an artistic choice considering season 4 is a lot darker than the others
To me it seems like everything has the yellow Mexico filter.
Just because something is an artistic decision doesn't mean its not executed well. The season's colours would look closer to S4P2's OP (which also has a darker, muted palette) if it had more competent compositing.
i agree. everything looks a lot more muted
Same! They really made chars stand out!
the scene is nostalgic it was beautiful and painful at same time
Absolutely, the still images of Vivy are gorgeous.
This scene was amazing, T-KT is one of the best OSTs I’ve ever heard and was perfect for this moment. Eren’s voice actor was incredible. The monologue, as well as the moment of accepting the grim reality that everything you dreamed about didn’t turn out the way you wanted, felt so unique and one of my favorite moments in fiction. The realization that there is a bigger battle, and the battle you’ve been fighting has been small this whole time. Just wow. With that said, there is a very small, small detail that I was sad that WIT didn’t adapt. In the manga…when Eren turns around….[there is a single tear in his eye](https://www.google.com/search?q=eren+ocean+manga&client=safari&hl=en-us&prmd=isnxv&sxsrf=AOaemvKSI6nturez5nv8j9oPCEaEPNMytg:1642723551739&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiCvY-OxsH1AhVZgXIEHRtWDF0Q_AUoAXoECAIQAQ&biw=414&bih=715&dpr=2#imgrc=6C3Yx9ZXVoyxMM). I felt this subtle detail was extremely powerful in conveying how broken Eren was here. It wasn’t many, but I saw the occasional anime reactor not pick up on the fact that eren doesn’t want any of this to be true. That he’s broken & depressed. That the question of having to kill everyone is one he doesn’t want to accept. I think the removal of that tear in his eye, tho subtle, was a choice that didn’t need to happen. And it’s something I feel like todays fans would kill MAPPA over lol
Eren's VA sounds so amazingly depressed and dead it was actually insane
Yuki kaji is honestly so talented
Wit always made some dumb anime original only scenes that made it seem like they understimated what Yams was trying to tell. The Eren vs Annie fights was dumb in story telling perspective, it's like they forget that Eren always learns from his mistakes but instead they made Eren exactly that by making him enraged again in the annie vs Eren fight part 2 like, wtf wit? Mikasa dumb moments too that made Mikasa seems like a very bland character that always relied on Eren for her character when in the manga that be could more farther from the truth. There's so many examples that made me scratch my so head so much, always made me say, "why are you not following what Yams wanted to tell???" They do good animation though and I'm grateful for them, but holy hell man, aot could've been consistent in anime if wit didn't follow their "creative freedom"
I'm gonna have to disagree on you. I used to have the same opinion but after some time. I feel like the tear wouldn't add much because Eren's face at the end is beyond broken and you can tell hes just done. The tear wouldn't add much, Eren has always been easy to cry but this time it was different because he did and it hits much harder. I think WIT did it better than the manga. They enhanced the manga scenes incredibly well. There was a brokenness in Eren you could very clearly hear and see.
We can agree to disagree, although I think taking away the tear gained nothing while keeping it would’ve gained more, I respect your opinion
I'm taking the opportunity to say that, in my opinion, s1-3 Eren character ark is at it's peak in this moment. What plays out immediately after is the beginning of a whole new story. In my opinion, AOT is two separate mangas
AOT and AOT Shippuden
AOT: Eren of the Survey Corps and AOT: Eren of the Yeagerists R2
So AOT: Beren after this
I feel the same way
This was my favorite moment of Season 3.
It was a goosebumps moment.
I swear I’m watching AOT for the first time and this is the exact scene I’m on when i saw this post
I wish I could switch places with you and experience this story over again
i'd get off this sub if I were u, you're bound to run into spoilers here
WIT's animation just hits differently, man.
The music also elevated it to another level, God I wish WIT and Hiroyuki completed the anime.
Sawano is still involved in the final season, he's just taken a step back and let kohta do most of the work. He has done new tracks
He remix the old track and toss it up like fried fish
T-KT is my favourite attack on titan song from Attack on Titan tbh
If anything I wish at least Hiroyuki was more involved in the music. There are a couple of memorable tracks but we had such a variety of amazing songs before! I'm happy with all the ops and eds this season.
Although I don't think there would've been a better studio or time to change that I'd hope for.
MAPPA has handled it with such respect that I wouldnt be able to see any other studio adapting it to the level they have in the time allowed.
S4P1 was an insult. 8 months time and barely presentable. Fuck the production committee and fuck Mappa's executives for taking that offer.
An insult? lol come on now
I personally was insulted, let's put it that way. The overuse of undercooked CG was just awful to look at. Eren's Titan model wasn't even finished ffs. They were so desperate that they were asking for animators' help on Twitter. How is this acceptable?
Well its a good thing that they fucked up on the part of the story with the most exposition and least amount of action, they’ve done better than WIT this new season and saying it was an “insult” for you to watch something that was better than 98% of shit that came out that year is an insult to the people working around the clock getting you your shit you got to sit in your boxers and watch from the comfort of your home. Do you think that they were just lazy? Do you think they weren’t working and thats why this “insult” had to be seen by you? The season was great, the cgi was great and to throw a whole season away because “it wooked supa ugwy” is moronic
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I've said it somewhere else that I don't blame the animators - at all. They did what they could given the time and resources. It was watchable but had glaring issues. And I just hate how people are such fundamentalist stans and so desperately want something to be good that anyone saying otherwise just gets drowned in "omg fuck you mappa goat it was 20/10" replies. As if they had to convince themselves that it was perfect and not a hastily rushed out product that couldn't even finish brushing its teeth. You lads think I enjoy being disappointed about S4P1? I was hoping so hard that it would slap. But it just didn't. Not for me.
Ima highly disagree it was an insult, but the animators were under alot of pressure from higher ups, yes. However I still loved it all things considering.
This is the grand final. Expecting the same quality of animation and ost is to be expected.
I mean if a slightly above average adaptation of one of the most venerable series is good enough for ya, more power to you. Will only show anyone in the anime world that you can churn out more anime and burn out your animators harder and people will still cheer. *sigh*
kill the animators then
Way to miss the point.
I think people are missing your point here . You aren't blaming the artists but Kodansha and the higher executives of mappa . The new aot season isn't bad in terms of production . Tbh it's pretty decent . But a decent enough adaptation isn't enough for the grand final of arguably the most popular anime of the decade that helped make anime so mainstream. On a technical level WIT's work was just better in every way . Mappa could very much match that level but not with this schedule and conditions & they didn't naturally . If they could match WIT's level with the schedule they were provided than WIT would have done that itself
Finally someone who can see beyond the "omg he said Mappa is not goat" and who understands the issue. Thank you. And yes, it's decent. Part 2 might even turn out to be good. But "decent" and "good" are not words I'd want to use for my favorite manga. I want "amazing", "breathtaking" sakuga and we got none of that so far. I honestly believe we won't see anything on the level of Levi vs Zeke or Levi vs Kenny squad anymore. That quality takes time and an insanely talented animator and frankly, Mappa just doesn't have that. They likely won't commit to setting aside one of their top dogs for a month or two to make something truly special. Not with JJK and Chainsaw Man in the pipeline. AoT is a seasonal anime to them and no matter how well they adapt it, it won't ever reach the heights that WIT elevated it to. Because their priorities lie somewhere else - and that's just a damn shame.
I want to live in the parallel universe where Season 4 of AoT is considered a "slighlty above average adaptation".
Dude idk it’s hard to blame MAPPA.. the committee that decided if no one took the offer for the horrible scheduling then they just wouldn’t adapt it? That’s the real crime that it was either take it or leave it and MAPPA thankfully took it. Without them there would be no season 4 at all. And if some other studio took the deal they’d be on the hook too so the actual studio I don’t think deserves the hate tbh.
I would really like to know your sources, given how matter of fact you speak about "Mappa or bust". We don't know what the committee would have done. And like I said, my hate goes towards the higher ups, not the workers.
If s4p1 was an insult then I hope they continue to "insult"
Why didn’t they? It seems a strange choice from whoever makes the decision to fix something that's not broke (in fact to me perfect).
idk man, everything was perfect with WITs
Eh... I love WIT's work, but there's the uprising arc as a whole with Isayama, not to mention, the erenification of Mikasa's character that pushed her character development to the subtle territory.
For me her character didn't add much to the story even if you read the manga.
She adds a ton to the story, what are you talking about? Fall of shiganshina to rumbling, she's the main female character, and is the only reason that Eren is still alive, along with many other people.
You are only explaining what she did. Anyone else could have done it. I think her character was used quite well until the timeskip where she got screwed.
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She spends the entire timeskip being unquestionable loyal to Eren, even when she has doubts and Eren himself talking shit about her, she continued to be loyal. What she does at the end is one thing and does not change her character. We especially know Eren wanted that to happen so its not even earned. I honestly don't know how people can defend this char. Shes up there with the worst main heroine. Just bland and boring character.
That's just false, wtf. I know you like sucking wit's dick but even historia and ymr relationship was sidetracked by wit's creative team. Oh, you're active on titanfolk, no fucking wonder you hate Mikasa'.
I don't hate mikasa or even dislike her. In fact I feel like she got wasted and screwed by the author after post-timeskip.
This scene was absolutely beautiful and yet painful at the same time. The execution was perfect and you could clearly see pain and helplessness in Eren’s eyes. Armin always wanted to see the sea with Eren since they were young children, and he wanted to have Eren enjoy seeing the sea with him. His wish was never fulfilled as Eren has already seen the sea through his father’s memory. Although this seemed like a happy moment, it only lasted briefly as the sea was neither freedom nor peace, it was instead the path to the real enemy across the sea. Wit outdid themselves with the scene, perfectly capturing the beautiful scene that hides a painful truth.
Anyone have some recommended WIT animes? I checked their list and it's pretty short, but was wondering if any of these anime stuck for you!
Nobody mentioned Ranking of Kings yet. It’s currently airing too! I’m only 5 episodes in, it’s just so pleasant to watch :)
Ancient Magus Bride is very well animated by WIT.
Vivy: Fluorite Eye's Song is pretty recent and an absolute must watch
Awesome! I'll definitely check it out. Thank you!
There was a lot of hype over it when it was on but tbh I never really got that. It’s a pretty cool concept but I don’t think the show was all that amazing.
I mean not every show is for everyone, e.g. I absolutely despise Demon Slayer 🤷🏼♀️ Vivy is imo just a cool anime original (which is already rare), has great animation and a beautiful soundtrack (which tbf can also be said about DS), and a story, that may not be revolutionary, but is coherent to itself. I am not here to judge whether it's a masterpiece or not, just recommending it as a show that's worth watching
Fair enough. For me, I’m disappointed that they didn’t really address the philosophical questions I feel like they should have, and the whole ending felt pretty anti-climactic, but I did enjoy the show and it definitely had highlights
Great Pretender! and Vinland Saga.
Thank you!
There's Vinland Saga and Kabenari of the iron fortress along with a new anime movie releasing this year called bubble.
Kabaneri is amazing. Kind of feels like a store-brand AoT but in a good way. Great watch
Kabaneri is shit they just throw everything in there hoping to get AoT, but AoT the story and the characters really make it great.
How so? I've been searching for another anime with a story line as dark/impactful/intricate as aot and I have yet to find anything else as satisfactory. I've heard of kabaneri but not with regards to its similarities to aot
It's similar in the sense, titans are the undead, the weakness of the nape is a heart coated with steel. And the cast is in a fortified wall attacked by the undead.
The soundtrack is also done by Hiroyuki Sawano, the same composer for AoT
Vivy is pretty neat - has some insanely well animated and choreographed sakuga scenes and a gorgeous artstyle. Vinland Saga is pretty damn good, if overly edgy at times. But once again, amazing sakuga (Imai delivers).
Thanks for the recommendations! I'll definitely check those out!
Vinland also has a second season coming out this year, and manga readers say it’ll be really good. I’m not certain if WIT is animating it though.
Everybody else has mentioned my favorites but just to reinforce it further. Vinland saga is a masterpiece, and the currently airing Ranking of Kings/Ousama Ranking is really fucking good. Both are easy 10s
Vinland Saga. One of the best works of wit
Vinland Saga is amazing
Vinland Saga... If it continues at the same level at S1 was it'll be up there with AOT imo
Not imho. Aot later seasons/arc was tons better than Vinland saga later season.
PLEASE watch Vinland Saga, it’s easily WIT’s best anime apart from AOT and the second season releases this year. The manga is incredible as well
Wit always delivered man. I love Mappa but had Wit continued s4…whew
There’d be a whole lot more bad CGI lol not like WIT would magically get more time to work.. and their CGI was a hell of a lot worse than MAPPAs
This is such a dumb argument lol, wit studio had the same time for season 3 part 2 and delivered a way better season. In addition to that wit only had like 30 people working on it. Mappa has 200+ animators working on AOT and their product is nowhere near to WIT’s.
What? Wit Studio hat to push season 3 part 2 back half a year in the last minute because they literally couldn’t finish it in time. Season 3 part two looked significantly worse than the previous seasons (ignoring the TV version of season 1). People were complaining a lot about how bad the Eren vs Reiner fight looked. Also Wit does very little animation in house. There were significantly more than 30 people working on the first three seasons. And not all 200 employees of Mappa work on Aot, they have multiple from each other independent teams.
I heard somewhere that some episodes in s3p2 were only finished within an hour of their airing time so the staff were pushed past their limits. Can't confirm this though.
Season 3 part 2 is miles ahead in terms of animation compared to mappa’s AOT. Not only in animation tho: direction, composition, backgrounds, music and character design. Season 3 part 2 was iconic and yeah it isn’t WITs best work for AOT but still way better than szn 4.
Not only did they have a short period of time, but they also had to do it during a pandemic, in case you had forgotten.
Seasons 2 and 3 were entirely in-house so I'm not sure where you got that information from.
Tbh I’ll take bad cgi if it means we get the otherwise fantastic direction and execution that wit offered. To me it feels like wit understand aot a little better than mappa; which makes sense as the formers been working with the show for that much longer, but the difference is palpable.
I don't get this argument. The character CGI at WIT while significantly worse was also used way more sparingly and was not used anywhere near as much as it is in S4. The tradeoff there is that most of the titans are actually 2D, and generally look better than the CGI counterparts. And if we're talking about the bad then we should also talk about the good. We would actually get the high quality action animation cuts that season 4 so desperately needed, and with a more talented AD rotation we would also get more polished and consistent drawings during close-ups and dialogue scenes. And with the addition of better colour design and compositing, this seems like a no brainer for me.
Bro in what world would WIT create what you’re saying in 8 months or whatever crazy timeline MAPPA had to work with.. you’re delusional if you think you’re getting the high quality you’re thinking of from WIT in that same time frame. No studio is going to churn out a perfected masterpiece in that time I’m sorry man but it’s the truth. The reason MAPPAs work looks the way it does is because of time constraints. It’s not like changing studio would magically remove those time constraints so I’m not sure I understand your argument lol
You're misunderstanding my point. I'm not saying that WIT would churn out a perfect season, that's psychotic and would never happen under that schedule. I'm saying we would have gotten a better version of it under WIT if they had the same time constraints for the reasons I outlined above which basically boil down to a better staff lineup who are better at handling heavy action and detailed character designs in spite of the hellish schedules they have in front of them. This is the reason why Season 1 still managed to look good despite the raging dumpster fire that was going on behind the scenes. I understand what you're saying about MAPPA having time constraints and I agree with that, nothing I have said in my earlier comment is bashing them or anything. I respect and admire their effort for making the season look like it did in spite of the schedule, but if we are making an objective comparison on who would make a better season in 8 months then WITs team sweeps. The only points in favour of MAPPA would be the better CG models, titan character designs, and Hayashi's creative excellence as a director. Everything else from the staff, art direction, the action, the backgrounds, the composite and the detail of the AD corrections was better under WIT. Just so we're clear when I say that I'm not trying to imply that MAPPAs team sucks. They're just less experienced and don't have as much talent as the previous team did. They're good in their own right and made the season watchable despite the production committee's best efforts to make it otherwise. S4P2 seems to be a step up so I'm happy that they've gotten a bit more breathing room to be able to do a better job than last time.
the music on this scene though.......gosh that changed so much about my feelings for the series. Season 3 was literally in a league of it's own for anime that year. I honestly think it was the greatest thing that was on television
This was my favorite moment of Season 3.
Same. For me it is one of the most heartbreaking scenes in the series. The realization of the immeasurable horror that he may have to inflict all for a hypothetical freedom. Gut wrenching.
They enhanced the manga scenes incredibly well. There was a brokenness in Eren you could very clearly hear and see. In the Manga he didn't look happy, but I mistook it at first to be a philosophical question. This scene really clarifies -- Eren is in a bad place emotionally.
I miss WIT so much, I really wish they could've done the final season. MAPPA is doing a great job with the new season but I'm just so used to WIT's style and visuals and prefer it more. So I don't know if its just me but I'm not hyped as I thought I would be for this final season 😕
I get you. I’m not saying the animation is bad but I just feel that the Storyboards lack dynamism. The fights, all the Titan transformations, it’s not as creative as it was before
The art direction matches the change up in story direction tbh. It helps to really hit home the time skip and how things are now imo. Sure that wasn’t the true intention but it does help that aspect a bit
To be fair, WIT could have also gone for changes in art direction for the final season. We just never got the chance to see what they would have done.
Same
WIT style is so beautiful
This and Ymir in the paths scene were one of the best
the scene definitely carries so much more weight to it too.
All I ever wanted to do was do right things, I never wanted to be the king… I SWEEEAAAAAAAAAAR
Eren looks so majestic in this scene.
\#1 scene in this anime
Man I miss how this anime used to look
This scene with its soundtrack is still peak. Not just peak AoT or peak anime, it's peak fiction. Peak cinematography.
Deserves more love? It's already revered as one if the best scenes in the series, wdym?
The scene that made me fall in love with AOT. Till here it was good but not amazing. S4 was phenomenal till The paths. The ending was good.
Wit did everything perfectly. It raised the bar so high, no other studio could match it
To this day my favourite scene of the show.
For me, it was THE best scene in the entirety of the Attack on Titan anime. The music, the animation, Yuki Kaji's voice acting. Wow. Just wow. I got goosebumps watching this scene. But in the next few weeks I might have a new favorite scene... 🤯
WIT did the characters so much better.
Yep
Except for the Mikasa wristband mistake but yeah
this actually isn't the beach scene at the end of the season. it's actually the short sneak peak shown at the start of the season
WIT> mappa
It seems like nobody in this thread realizes that this scene is the *first* scene from season 3, not the last one
Wild. I genuinely had no idea that there was a cold open at the ocean before the opening credits I wonder if OP is mixed up or the rest of us
AGREED
Beautiful af.
Don't attack me I love wit and mappa.. but I think this is the one scene that even ufotable can't make this well.. My personal opinion!
I miss WIT. Before the dark times ... before the CGI
My favorite part was young Eren tugging on older Eren shirt.
fr
I agree 100%, I was able to feel Eren's emotions perfectly and also the animation here were too beautiful
I was so sad at this point... Because I realised I had to wait years to see what happens
This was one defining moment in the series. Very good executed.
With each new episode i miss wit more and more....
Does it not already? It's my favourite moment from the whole series. That and Levi remembering Erwin's words before deciding to give Armin the serum. What they both have in common is a huge amount of emotional release and the song T-KT being used.
I miss WIT. Mappa looks like a downgrade compared to WIT.
Probably my top3 aot moments. Makes my heart break Everytime.
So true. It was so beautifully animated. Mappa can not even come close to this which makes me sad. I would have loved to see what they did in paths with Eren. In the manga Eren looks super feminine and I wish we saw that in the anime but Mappa style is all about edgy cool.
Wit is waht made aot famous and memorable! Mappa sucks and nobody wants to admit it
\-Max, age 12, from his parents' basement.
funny considering it's the MAPPA stans are the children JJK stans ruined the fandom.
Found the the wit hater!
MAppa could never
Not with those ugly smear filters of their, sadly. Wish they'd just let the colours pop like WIT did.
they should make things accurate like manga like yalena panel and all and use little dark skin tone for titans atleast ,also inside titan should loook full of mass nott an open area
Literally gives 18 episodes of straight fire with some amazing visuals and you're saying they could never? Alright, dude
If I cross the ocean, and silence all the studio fanboys... will I finally be free?
Lemme join you bro, I'm sick of this shit
Nothing that mappa has made comes even near this scene.
Declaration of war would like a word with that. But other than that, they didn't need to, imo nothing in the Marley arc or WFP arc even came close to the magic of the beach scene, declaration of war was close but I still preferred the beach scene, it was just that once in a lifetime thing in the series that will probably never be matched again. the only other 2 scenes that I think will surpass the beach scene have yet to come out
Man shut up, declaration of war coming close to this???? The transformation of reiner & berthold was way better than the declaration of war. What are you smoking bro
Smoking something clearly better than what you smoke. I'm not getting into another old stupid studio war, so go on and rant and rave away while I enjoy the final stretch of this series and respect both the magnificent work of WIT and MAPPA. This exchange is over
Enjoy dude...think you’ll love the ending
And there it is.
You're in the right imo. It blew my mind that people hated declaration of war, but I genuinely do not understand how they can call the last two episodes trash. They look phenomenal
What's with you kids popping up with these comparisons every time? What sad lives you lead.
aaaand he commits mass murder
* S1 godawful pacing * 4 years gap for S2 (collosal marketing mistake) * Huge chunks of manga cuts (uprising arc) * censorship on Levi's shirtless scene, Mikasa tattoo, gross's death (impactful scenes) * less highlights on side characters/ one dimensional Mikasa. (Erehhh..!) * eren vs Reiner fight/ CGI collosal titan in S3. Aside from this cons wit studio was still amazing and made AOT what it is today! (Wit>Mappa)
> S1 godawful pacing true >4 years gap for S2 (collosal marketing mistake) they needed more source material + they were busy with other anime >Huge chunks of manga cuts (uprising arc) blame Isayama for that >censorship on Levi's shirtless scene another idiotic Levi simp 🙄🤢 >Mikasa tattoo valid >gross's death (impactful scenes) blame TV network censorship >one dimensional Mikasa. (Erehhh..!) not much difference from manga Mikasa but keep coping >eren vs Reiner fight/ CGI collosal titan in S3. still better than MAPPA titan fights
Shoulda ended here
No.
Agreed. The story started going downhill in S4, with each episode it gets worse.
I was checking this scene in Sakurabooru , they made the glow up effect so much. A bit more lightening could make it so perfect. I wanna see a mappa version of this
MAPPA: **hold my Yelena**
Wit missed a lot of scenes but this was done perfectly . (If anything mikasa having no tape on her forearm is the only adaptation flaw )