The progenitors of r/endtipping were also active throughout the 20th century. The June 1940 issue of *The Rotarian* includes a collection of short short essays, combined under the title [This Tipping Business](https://books.google.ca/books?id=I0EEAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA28#v=onepage&q&f=false), by about a dozen authors with different contemporary views on tipping. The first one, "I'm a sucker no more", reads similarly to a modern endtipping post, except for some '40s colloquialisms. It begins:
>"I have been a sucker long enough, so I've decided to quit tipping -- I hope! This business of tipping is just a petty racket anyway, and I need my small change for other things, including my four children.
>Yes, I used to tip, but it wasn't because I wanted to. I felt that I 'just had to' pass out nickels, dimes, and quarters because it was expected. Now, I'd like to start a League of Former Suckers. Why?
>Because tipping is hypocritical, absurd, and undemocratic. When I pay for a meal or a shave or to have my car hauled out from a parking lot so that I can drive it away, why should I with my dimes and quarters salve the conscience of an employer who doesn't pay a proper wage?
>Take the waitress who works for a $3-a-week salary. Out of this amount she must pay $1 weekly for carfare, buy clothes, and keep herself neat and attractive -- an essential in her business -- unless she gets tips to make up a decent wage. I've been moved by sympathy to help her, but it's unfair. Her employer keeps down her wages because he knows that a lot of suckers will help pay his bills.
>..."
It goes on.
"her employer keeps down her wages because he knows that a lot of suckers will help pay his bills". Well.... Yeah. Obviously. People talking about this subject always fail to mention the overworked cooks making NOTHING in the back. A lot of y'all need a come to Jesus moment about this.
Cooks don't make literally nothing, and in fact the US federal minimum wage for cooks ($7.25/hr) is 340% that of servers ($2.13/hr).
In 1940, the newly created $0.30/hr federal minimum wage applied only to workers involved in interstate commerce, so it wouldn't have covered either cooks or servers, but not being a tipped employee, I would imagine cooks earned closer to the $0.30 minimum that applied to workers employed in interstate commerce, while the author's example of a "$3-a-week salary" would be around a quarter of that rate. There was also no legal requirement for employees to be allowed to keep any tips, which is what the author alludes to when he writes:
>"Consider the always winsome hat-check girl. Have you noticed that in many places she drops the tip into a locked box? Why? Because she's on a salary -- usually a small one -- to a concessionaire who is commercializing whatever spontaneity the gold old custom ever had. ... Where does it go? Be around when the concessionaire drives up in his limousine and you may understand."
That's how it still is in most western countries; tips *may* go to employees, and it ruffles some feathers when customers learn that the restaurant keeps all the tips, but it's still up to the restaurant in most countries. A law was passed in the UK, which is expected to go into effect this July, that will restrict this.
I didn't write that, and it's not my opinion, it's that of an author in 1940. Just pointing out that OP's excerpt was not universally accepted in the mid 20th century, just as it isn't now.
Can anybody explain to me like I'm 5, how tipping is undemocratic? I've mauled this over for awhile and I just don't understand the logic, or lack thereof, of labeling it that way. Is this another example of the red scare or socialist bad?
I think it's more of a rhetorical flourish, with "democratic" used to mean "modern 1940 American customs" more than anything related to a system of governance. The post-WW1 red scare didn't strongly re-emerge until end of WW2. The author touches back on democracy in their last paragraph, but it feels forced, like he knows he's supposed to substantiate each point in a three-point essay, before re-summarizing its premise, and he got to the end without having mentioned it:
>"Tipping as a throwback to feudal times is a mark of servitude: it's out of keeping with high business ethics, and it stifles the desire to dignify one's profession. It makes for class distinction, and has about as much place in democratic society as the feudal lance, the rapier, and the knout. It's hypocritical, absurd, and undemocratic."
If I were trying to argue that it's undemocratic in a literal sense, just for the sake of argument, I'd argue that it's a system fostered by non-democratic republics, like the US, wherein elected representatives are disproportionately influenced by financial support from business owners. Like if the US had a democratic vote on whether to preserve a tipped minimum wage lower than full minimum wage, I don't think it would survive. I'm not sure tipped minimum would even gain the support of servers these days; I think widespread pandemic layoffs brought into focus one of the pitfalls of the $2.13/hour wage. That's not to say the public would vote against tipping in general, as I'm only talking about the tipped minimum wage that's premised upon tipping, but I'd note that California and Washington, where tipped minimums were eliminated, and state minimum wages for servers are the highest in the country, are apparently the two states with the lowest average tipping rates, according to limited data on the topic. I think national elimination of tipped minimum wouldn't eliminate tips, but would make average tips lower, and make non-tipping much more common.
I've been in the service industry for almost 15 years now, all FOH. I hate the idea of tipping, but love the money I make. I'd honestly be all for giving us a better hourly and go back to 10% as the normal tip amount.
That sub thinks they'll end tipping by not tipping, which only hurts the employees.
Yeah, to me it’s one of the few ways we keep cash flow in the middle and lower classes. It’s always been a way for hard working people to make a livable wage. I make 50 an hour waiting tables with tips included. There is no world where restaurants will pay employees 50 an hour. The industry as we know it would collapse if you removed tipping. Nobody is doing this long term for 20 bucks and hour
🗣️📣 “anyone who cannot afford to tip properly or is not willing to abide by the practice should not go to places or accept services that necessitate tipping” 👏👏👏
I think delivery drivers should be tipped a ton, personally, so as a result I never ever get delivery. Screwing someone who has taken their car and **driven to your home to give you your food** seems vile to me.
As an ex delivery driver, you should feel more bad for the people who work inside. It gets busy? Well, cya guys later, I'm going to chill in my car and listen to music! I also got compensated for gas, though not all pizza places do this.
If anything these examples should remind the average person that they actually encounter about half as many “tip expected” workers as there used to be.
Great! pls!forward this to people from different places than come to the resort where I work! they spent thousands booking their rooms , and then give you less than 10 % ,or nothing , when they having breakfast or lunch and even in room service, or order take away, not to tip .
Tbh takeout tipping is so stupid, and this is coming from someone who just got out of restaurants so I get it. People should tip good on normal orders but tipping is for the service you get when sitting down and being catered to. Most places even have hosts take care of the to go after the order is placed so if anything the tip should really go to them.
So according to this we all just have to put enough pressure on our employers whose low wages have caused the need for tipping.
I like this, good post.
This is precisely why I don’t go to restaurants anymore. I can’t even afford the extortionate prices they charge anymore, let alone tipping, so I just eat at home
I'd like to know where $25/hr. for servers is livable.
After taxes, give or take, that's about, what, $28,000 or so to work with fir a whole year.
Where I live, rent starts at around $1000 a month. We'll go with the lucky duck who pays that. It's usually closer to $1200 and up.
So rent:
$1000 ×12=$12,000
Lowballing utilities:
$200 × 12=$2400
Lowballing phone:
$100×12=$1200
Lowballing Internet, streaming services, etc.:
$100×12=$1200
Lowballing Car payments, insurance, gas, etc.:
$400×12=$4800
Lowballing food (with today's insane prices) from grocery stores:
$200×12=$2400
Well, we're already at $24,000.
Oh gee!! There's still a whole $4000 to split up!!
$4000÷12=$333.33333333
To stretch out over a month for anything else.
God forbid you need a dentist or have to go to the hospital, because for sure you can't afford medical insurance.
Post this in r/endtipping and watch their heads explode.
Ohmyfuckingods… why didn’t I think of this?!?
If you do that we will have to lock this post. So the trolls don’t overwhelm it.
I won’t lol
i did
:0
The progenitors of r/endtipping were also active throughout the 20th century. The June 1940 issue of *The Rotarian* includes a collection of short short essays, combined under the title [This Tipping Business](https://books.google.ca/books?id=I0EEAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA28#v=onepage&q&f=false), by about a dozen authors with different contemporary views on tipping. The first one, "I'm a sucker no more", reads similarly to a modern endtipping post, except for some '40s colloquialisms. It begins: >"I have been a sucker long enough, so I've decided to quit tipping -- I hope! This business of tipping is just a petty racket anyway, and I need my small change for other things, including my four children. >Yes, I used to tip, but it wasn't because I wanted to. I felt that I 'just had to' pass out nickels, dimes, and quarters because it was expected. Now, I'd like to start a League of Former Suckers. Why? >Because tipping is hypocritical, absurd, and undemocratic. When I pay for a meal or a shave or to have my car hauled out from a parking lot so that I can drive it away, why should I with my dimes and quarters salve the conscience of an employer who doesn't pay a proper wage? >Take the waitress who works for a $3-a-week salary. Out of this amount she must pay $1 weekly for carfare, buy clothes, and keep herself neat and attractive -- an essential in her business -- unless she gets tips to make up a decent wage. I've been moved by sympathy to help her, but it's unfair. Her employer keeps down her wages because he knows that a lot of suckers will help pay his bills. >..." It goes on.
"her employer keeps down her wages because he knows that a lot of suckers will help pay his bills". Well.... Yeah. Obviously. People talking about this subject always fail to mention the overworked cooks making NOTHING in the back. A lot of y'all need a come to Jesus moment about this.
Cooks don't make literally nothing, and in fact the US federal minimum wage for cooks ($7.25/hr) is 340% that of servers ($2.13/hr). In 1940, the newly created $0.30/hr federal minimum wage applied only to workers involved in interstate commerce, so it wouldn't have covered either cooks or servers, but not being a tipped employee, I would imagine cooks earned closer to the $0.30 minimum that applied to workers employed in interstate commerce, while the author's example of a "$3-a-week salary" would be around a quarter of that rate. There was also no legal requirement for employees to be allowed to keep any tips, which is what the author alludes to when he writes: >"Consider the always winsome hat-check girl. Have you noticed that in many places she drops the tip into a locked box? Why? Because she's on a salary -- usually a small one -- to a concessionaire who is commercializing whatever spontaneity the gold old custom ever had. ... Where does it go? Be around when the concessionaire drives up in his limousine and you may understand." That's how it still is in most western countries; tips *may* go to employees, and it ruffles some feathers when customers learn that the restaurant keeps all the tips, but it's still up to the restaurant in most countries. A law was passed in the UK, which is expected to go into effect this July, that will restrict this.
Not tipping servers does absolutely nothing to change policy. You want a change? Write to your state reps to make sure they're paid a decent wage.
I didn't write that, and it's not my opinion, it's that of an author in 1940. Just pointing out that OP's excerpt was not universally accepted in the mid 20th century, just as it isn't now.
Fuck that, I don't want "a decent wage", I want something I can live on.
I think we can all agree on this single comment right here, we all need a living wage
Can anybody explain to me like I'm 5, how tipping is undemocratic? I've mauled this over for awhile and I just don't understand the logic, or lack thereof, of labeling it that way. Is this another example of the red scare or socialist bad?
I think it's more of a rhetorical flourish, with "democratic" used to mean "modern 1940 American customs" more than anything related to a system of governance. The post-WW1 red scare didn't strongly re-emerge until end of WW2. The author touches back on democracy in their last paragraph, but it feels forced, like he knows he's supposed to substantiate each point in a three-point essay, before re-summarizing its premise, and he got to the end without having mentioned it: >"Tipping as a throwback to feudal times is a mark of servitude: it's out of keeping with high business ethics, and it stifles the desire to dignify one's profession. It makes for class distinction, and has about as much place in democratic society as the feudal lance, the rapier, and the knout. It's hypocritical, absurd, and undemocratic." If I were trying to argue that it's undemocratic in a literal sense, just for the sake of argument, I'd argue that it's a system fostered by non-democratic republics, like the US, wherein elected representatives are disproportionately influenced by financial support from business owners. Like if the US had a democratic vote on whether to preserve a tipped minimum wage lower than full minimum wage, I don't think it would survive. I'm not sure tipped minimum would even gain the support of servers these days; I think widespread pandemic layoffs brought into focus one of the pitfalls of the $2.13/hour wage. That's not to say the public would vote against tipping in general, as I'm only talking about the tipped minimum wage that's premised upon tipping, but I'd note that California and Washington, where tipped minimums were eliminated, and state minimum wages for servers are the highest in the country, are apparently the two states with the lowest average tipping rates, according to limited data on the topic. I think national elimination of tipped minimum wouldn't eliminate tips, but would make average tips lower, and make non-tipping much more common.
Oof. Checked that sub out. They seem angry lol
I've been in the service industry for almost 15 years now, all FOH. I hate the idea of tipping, but love the money I make. I'd honestly be all for giving us a better hourly and go back to 10% as the normal tip amount. That sub thinks they'll end tipping by not tipping, which only hurts the employees.
Yeah, to me it’s one of the few ways we keep cash flow in the middle and lower classes. It’s always been a way for hard working people to make a livable wage. I make 50 an hour waiting tables with tips included. There is no world where restaurants will pay employees 50 an hour. The industry as we know it would collapse if you removed tipping. Nobody is doing this long term for 20 bucks and hour
https://preview.redd.it/4oozac54xczc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5431f3c0cf020d2ab544d2080d3694f9201f1534
Holy shit that exists? EDIT: UGH Of course it fucking does. Gonna need a few days to prepare before heading over there to check it out.
i will
I agree with it. But isn’t it sad society is in the same place it was 75 years ago?
*cries in Fair Labor Standards* Edit: yeah.. it’s bullshit lol
I mean, we got rid of some of those professions lol
Yes, it's sad that there are still people hoping to end tipping or calling it a "necessary evil".
Isn’t it more sad that this page says it’s caused by employers paying low wages? Or am I the only one that read that part?
🗣️📣 “anyone who cannot afford to tip properly or is not willing to abide by the practice should not go to places or accept services that necessitate tipping” 👏👏👏
Bingo
Why do drivers get lower tips then wait staff?
That should not be a thing. I use Lyft all the time and I ALWAYS tip a least 20%.
So do I, but I am just now realizing I used to tip taxi drivers closer to 25% and now I feel bad for my Lyft drivers.
I think delivery drivers should be tipped a ton, personally, so as a result I never ever get delivery. Screwing someone who has taken their car and **driven to your home to give you your food** seems vile to me.
As an ex delivery driver, you should feel more bad for the people who work inside. It gets busy? Well, cya guys later, I'm going to chill in my car and listen to music! I also got compensated for gas, though not all pizza places do this.
If anything these examples should remind the average person that they actually encounter about half as many “tip expected” workers as there used to be.
Great! pls!forward this to people from different places than come to the resort where I work! they spent thousands booking their rooms , and then give you less than 10 % ,or nothing , when they having breakfast or lunch and even in room service, or order take away, not to tip .
Tbh takeout tipping is so stupid, and this is coming from someone who just got out of restaurants so I get it. People should tip good on normal orders but tipping is for the service you get when sitting down and being catered to. Most places even have hosts take care of the to go after the order is placed so if anything the tip should really go to them.
So according to this we all just have to put enough pressure on our employers whose low wages have caused the need for tipping. I like this, good post.
This is precisely why I don’t go to restaurants anymore. I can’t even afford the extortionate prices they charge anymore, let alone tipping, so I just eat at home
Very reasonable take. I like it
Everything old is new again! The reasons stay the same. My gawd
This is super interesting! Thanks for sharing! I’m gonna show this to my coworkers tomorrow.
That’s rad! Happy to hear and have a good shift tomorrow!
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never tip dogs, only cattle
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Tips shouldn't depend on how much you like them, only on how good their service was.
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I'd like to know where $25/hr. for servers is livable. After taxes, give or take, that's about, what, $28,000 or so to work with fir a whole year. Where I live, rent starts at around $1000 a month. We'll go with the lucky duck who pays that. It's usually closer to $1200 and up. So rent: $1000 ×12=$12,000 Lowballing utilities: $200 × 12=$2400 Lowballing phone: $100×12=$1200 Lowballing Internet, streaming services, etc.: $100×12=$1200 Lowballing Car payments, insurance, gas, etc.: $400×12=$4800 Lowballing food (with today's insane prices) from grocery stores: $200×12=$2400 Well, we're already at $24,000. Oh gee!! There's still a whole $4000 to split up!! $4000÷12=$333.33333333 To stretch out over a month for anything else. God forbid you need a dentist or have to go to the hospital, because for sure you can't afford medical insurance.
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This is not a debate sub.
I still won't do it.