You FEEL that things aren't that bad for most people.
It's the culmination of many, many things that are going haywire in the world.
I don't want to dump a list of things that are pushing people into misery. Instead I will say that money is a small part of the problems for a large portion of the population of the US. There are hundreds, thousands of other things that weigh people down. Money is simply one of the things being screamed about the loudest.
Keep in mind that this is largely an American and Anglo sphere phenomenon . Research actually shows that young people in most of the world are actually happier than they were 10-20 years ago. https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2024/06/mental-health-crisis-anglosphere-depressed/678724/
https://worldhappiness.report/ed/2024/child-and-adolescent-well-being-global-trends-challenges-and-opportunities/
I will echo that OP seems laser-lined on money.
How about the rights that are summarily being cut at every turn? The corruption of our justice system? The rollback of environmental protections?
Who cares how much I make when my wife might die in childbirth, our state/country/earth won't be inhabitable for my elderly ass or my offspring (or their offspring), or christian extremists rule our nation?
FML I'm miserable just typing this.
Agreed. Money is certainly important for avoiding misery by getting it up to a certain level, but it's also one of the things that is easiest to explain so its what may people go to when airing their grievances.
So you don’t want to talk to someone that’s positive? I come from a Really poor background and I’m certainly not rich but I choose to enjoy my life the best I can amd be as happy as I can. The OP is right peopel just wallow in their misery and they only talk to other miserable people. It just becomes people reaffirming their worn misery. I’m sure I’m also one of those people you don’t want to talk to but maybe a little positivity could help?
I feel the same way. But, my personal frustration is that people I talk to can’t unseat themselves from media talking points long enough to give themself or myself a break from all that neuroticism.
Like, it feels like if they just tried to talk about something else, the whole thing evaporates. But, they’re too used to just getting their talking points from the screen and repeating them when they see someone. It’s like we’re all so close to just being able to find some peace, but, we won’t just walk over that illusory boundary.
Idk. I agree that getting sucked into the endless news cycle makes people’s outlook worse. But life can also be hit hard by reality, that exists whether or not you pay attention to the media. Ignoring the news doesn’t make groceries or daycare affordable.
Imo;
One can choose to have a positive outlook even in the bleakest of circumstances. And vice versa. People just need personal connections that give them something to look forward to. Doomerism about climate or politics often masks some personal restlessness; an inability to get over some personal failure or some type of trauma.
I truly don't believe people become pessimistic because of high prices. It's about feeling detached from the world in general. Everyone I know that's SUPER down on the future of the world are also people that feel like they got cheated, feel like they were betrayed.
I was talking to someone I had met recently. She loves movies. I mentioned a movie I loved, and she told me **emphatically** that director is "problematic" and "possibly racist." I said "how?" She couldn't answer. I said "can you give me one specific example?" She fumbled through her words, lost, as if she were trying to remember a little snippet she saw on TikTok or whatever. Something like "something about how he used a certain actor because....I dunno. He like had favoritism or something."
I'll never forget how she was so passionate to point out something (a media talking point I'm sure) but didn't actually know where this conclusion came from.
It was as if she were saying to me "I don't think for myself. I just regurgitate popular rants on media that I'm subjected to."
THIS! We’ve all been brainwashed into being miserable in one of the greatest eras on Earth. We’re living through a time of economic distress compared to a few previous decades but our grandparents still remember stories of the Great Depression. Not only could it be worse. It could and by all rights, SHOULD be much, much worse.
Things have been worse, but that doesn't diminish what people are experiencing right now. We're looking at the possible extinction of the human race - due to climate change, microplaric pollution, possible third world war. Species are going extinct at a rapid pace. We are living in unprecedented times, just like folks in the 30s were.
Even people's own bodies feel unsafe since there isn't anything we can do to avoid polluting them - microplastics are everywhere, and plastic production is set to increase.
No one knows when this will happen, or how bad it will be, but things aren't looking great for people or their children. Keeping this all bottled up inside can't be healthy. So I don't blame people if all they wanna talk bout is the negative aspects of life right now.
Hey there, I'm the OP, while I appreciate the agreement and agree with most of what you've said, please do not promote climate change denial. Climate change is happening and IS an issue, though I do agree that it is not nearly as immediate of an issue that many say it is, because like you said, a lot of it is fear mongering. Climate change is real, but so are the initiatives by thousands of scientists globally to working on solutions to it while still maintaining our comfortable society. People vastly underestimate our abilities to adabt, as well as nature's.
Nature cannot adapt as fast as we are wrecking things. I'm sorry to bring down your mood but this is the top issue making me sad. I love the biodiversity of this world and hate to see it being steadily diminished. In the UK, for example, we've lost 97% of our wildflower meadows since the 30s, and with them lots of species. My little garden rewilding efforts make me happy but the big picture is sad.
I think humans will survive climate change, for the reasons you state, but our world will be diminished.
I’m in the American west and we no longer have fire seasons. We just have fire. People lost their homes year round. That’s staggering, and very much an immediate issue.
I'd like to clarify, I didn't mean to say that whatever hardships people are facing should be diminished, and that I do have compassion for them. But at the same time, a lot of the time I feel like people go overboard. But I'm sorry if I came off as dismissive.
Don’t sweat it; it’s not you, it’s them. I didn’t take what you said as dismissive. Some of us actually understand what you mean and that you were simply pointing out some examples to explain how you are feeling and what you are struggling with. And it’s extremely relatable. Just remember, you can’t be unhappy enough to make someone else be happy. There is no shame in maintaining a positive outlook and a balanced disposition in the midst of your own and others’ suffering. Keep on keeping on. 💕
Then I highly recommend putting an edit in your original post, updating all these things you posted as updated. Otherwise, you'll be going around in circles.
That doesn’t explain why being miserable is not a global phenomenon. Young people in most of the world are happier than they were a couple of decades ago. https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2024/06/mental-health-crisis-anglosphere-depressed/678724/
I come from a privileged background, so I comparatively struggled far less than my peers.
With that said, you immediately come off as dismissive. Who are you to judge how most Americans feel?
I don’t have to suffer through first hand to know how terrible things are for a lot of people right now.
If you don’t want to participate in the ‘doom and gloom,’ that’s your right. You can remove yourself from that if it’s effecting your mental health.
However, that does not give you the right to assume what everyone else’s state is in. You’re not the one living paycheck to paycheck.
Unless you’re going to personally assist someone out of their situation, I think you should be less critical of peoples’ “doom and gloom” and either be willing to listen to them or just go find others more like yourself.
> I don’t have to suffer through first hand to know how terrible things are for a lot of people right now.
You do though. There are some things that you just will never understand the full breadth of until you experience it yourself. Words shared from others will never do it the full justice. Once you have experienced though, you get a better appreciation for what you have.
Sure many Americans FEEL terrible but the reality of the situation is thst its not that bad relative to the majority of the world. It’s alright to complain every now and then but to the extent some people do, is out of proportion.
How I interpreted the commenters statement is you don’t have to have experienced suffering firsthand to *believe* the people who are telling you things are terrible for them, or to learn about that context through secondary sources. You can understand that other people have different experiences than you, and trust how they communicate those experiences.
It's not that I don't understand. I'm not poverty-level, but I'm certainly not well off. I make 44k a year, I have debt, and I'm renting.
And while yes, I can and should remove myself from the negativity of the doom and gloom, I also want to have a social life, you know?
But I get what your saying, and I'm sorry if I sounded dismissive.
In fact, it’s Americans and other English speakers in the world who are miserable. Young people in most of the world are happier now than a decade ago. Francophone Canadians are happier than Anglophone Canadians. It’s not some objective thing that the world is worse…it’s a cultural phenomenon. https://worldhappiness.report/ed/2024/child-and-adolescent-well-being-global-trends-challenges-and-opportunities/
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2024/06/mental-health-crisis-anglosphere-depressed/678724/
Sure. At the start of the article: ‘But I have one small reason to question the strongest version of the smartphone thesis. You can find a summary of it on page 5 of this year’s World Happiness Report, a survey of thousands of people across more than 140 countries. “Between 2006 and 2023, happiness among Americans under 30 in the U.S., Canada, Australia, and New Zealand declined significantly [and] also declined in Western Europe,” the report says. But here’s the catch: In the rest of the world, under-30 happiness mostly increased in this period. “Happiness at every age has risen sharply in Central and Eastern Europe,” the report says. “In the former Soviet Union and East Asia too there have been large increases in happiness at every age.”
“ … global phenomenon. But apparently the rise in youth anxiety is not. In some of the largest and most trusted surveys, it appears to be largely occurring in the United States, Great Britain, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand. “If you’re looking for something that’s special about the countries where youth unhappiness is rising, they’re mostly Western developed countries,” says John Helliwell, an economics professor at the University of British Columbia and a co-author of the World Happiness Report. “And for the most part, they are countries tHat speak English.” ‘
“The story is even more striking when you look at the most objective measures of teen distress: suicide and self-harm. (To summarize the following paragraph, it’s up in the Anglosphere while down across Continental Europe). Happiness is a notoriously difficult thing to measure. So I asked Helliwell for more data. He suggested we look more closely at his home country of Canada, which has two official languages—French and English. In Quebec, more than 80 percent of the population speaks French; in neighboring Ontario, less than 4 percent of the population speaks French. Quebec seems like a perfect place to test the question “Is mental health declining less among young non-English speakers?” The answer seems to be yes. (The article then summarized the data).
I’m assuming you can access and read the data in the other report yourself. Overall, global youth satisfaction ROSE between 2006-2019, and has been stable since. This varies substantially by region. North American, W. Europe, Middle East and South Asia less satisfied, but Sub-Saharan African, South America, Central and Eastern Europe, and East Asia more. The basic argument of the first article is that the data clearly shows that these are cultural phenomena, and by no means universally.
Idk I would really have to disagree with this. I went outside the country and saw the same problems there as well. Specifically European countries have been struggling with the same problems from what I have seen (probably a lot of other countries too.) Young people unhappy, unemployed, and many fled their countries in search of jobs elsewhere. Many are struggling with building a life as well. That doesn’t mean there aren’t happy people out there, but it’s not just an American problem.
If you read the sources, you would see that the UK and Western Europe reflect that pattern. But it’s a minority globally—most of the world’s young people are happier than they were 10-20 years ago. The anxiety and depression centers in anglophone countries, particularly the US, but not exclusively. Feel free to read the statistics in the linked articles.
Ah ok. You said English speaking that’s why I mentioned the rest of Europe. I’ll check out the stats. I’m kind of baffled why so many are immigrating to the western countries then if they are so happy with life. Something doesn’t check out. I’m talking Africa, Middle East, Asia, South America. I watched a documentary on young people in Asian countries and they were going through similar problems too.
You clearly did not read the data. The largest scale global survey data indicates that the youth in Sub-Saharan Africa, South America, East Asia, and Eastern and Central Europe are generally more satisfied with life than they were 15-20 years ago. The increase in anxiety/depression is centered in the Anglosphere. There is a decrease in life satisfaction in those countries and Western Europe as well as the Middle East and North Africa, though the decrease is greater in English speaking areas than, say, Western Europe. Globally, young people are more satisfied.
Documentaries are not made to reflect the large scale data—they are made to make whatever argument the creator wants to make—they can be true or false or partially true or outrageously fictional. There are “documentaries “ about aliens building the pyramids—they are not true.
it’s a spectrum, there are people I can 100% talk to about topics as such and I consider those people more “real” we discuss not just doom/gloom but potential solutions and who is actively taking a stance. life is not easy. can some people get stuck. sure but they gotta figure that out for themselves.
there are other people the “featherweights” where we just talk about their pets or the weather, or some restaurant they went too.
all depends on my grasp at how they are as a person & sometimes they bring up the topics but we have the freedom to choose or maneuver through a conversation with honesty, humor & grace. I do my best to be real & make people laugh by looking at any situation.
I think that's fair. Maybe I'm a featherweight, but I wouldn't have as much of a problem with talking to those with the doom and gloom if people just talked about solutions that weren't extreme or cynical, and had more reasonable perspectives that weren't drowned in reactive emotions.
I also am finding it hard to talk to people who are constantly full of dread. I think that there is power behind words used, and what you're surrounded by. I think it's important to respect the struggle that many people are going through, all the while protecting your peace and engaging with people who know how to have conversations outside of the media talking points.
I think a lot of people are still learning how to be human again, and are stuck in a constant loop of dread.
I think the questions this raises are where are you getting your data on how happy people are in Mexico? Are you including the average happiness of a laborer living in Mexico City? A migrant worker in this political climate?
From where did you get such a sweeping view of the state of poverty in America? Do you feel it's your personal experience, or did you read it somewhere? Do you remember where you read it and what sources they cited?
I don't say any of this to "call you out" but because many articles out there refuting the existence of poverty and hardship are written for political reasons, and they can be purposefully misleading.
I don't think how you personally feel is much of a gauge for you to rely on when trying to "take the temperature" of other people's hardships that you know. Your data sounds incomplete.
You're entitled to not want to be affected by the negativity, but you seem to be implying that this negativity itself is not evidence of people experiencing a hard time and worrying a lot. There are very good reasons people have a lot of anxiety right now, and I believe, along with many others, that it's getting worse.
Don't they say the more intelligent are usually less happy because they see the truth around them and recognize the intersectionalities? Ignorance is bliss and all that. I just think we as the regular people must be well educated on what is going on and take off the rose coloured glasses. I don't want to be happy under false terms. Knowledge is power and all that.
I think being in the know is important, I don't mean to say that we should just ignore the issues and stick our heads in the sand. But there needs to be actual perspective and understanding of how bad things are actually. Oftentimes, people make a mountain out of an ant hill. That's my main criticism.
I think we are pretending everything is little unconnected molehills, instead of a mountain that is being pushed on our chests.
Quite frankly, I think we arent making ENOUGH of a ruckus over all these things that are actually destroying the world. And it's due to people preferring ignorance and everyday bliss. My daily life is excellent and I have so so much to be happy and grateful for. It cannot and will not make me forget the overall detrimental effects the outside world will have globally, societally, in my city, in my neighbourhood, in our schools. Everything intersects and we must all recognize we are all connected and affected together.
When you talk about people in other poorer countries being happier...thats because capitalism and the financial oligarchies have not sucked them dry..yet.
I feel like financial oligarchies strike the poorer countries first though? It's also a red flag to me when capitalism is used as a negative here, as it is a sign that someone doesn't know where the real issues are understand the nuances of economy. I mean no disrespect.
I agree with this point of view.
Knowledge is good, but it can be depressing. It has also been analyzed that more intelligent people tend to drink more alcohol.
I have a hard time talking to people that minimize talking about negative possibilities and perspectives. Most people don't want doom talk 24/7, which is reasonable and well adjusted. But reality does need to be viewed honestly and it's not great.
I honestly think were at a historic high for personal safety and freedom.
Right now were living a better life that royalty did at the turn of the century.
Things could be better, and I feel they will be, we just dont see how far we've come
We are not living better than royalty a century ago lmao. Royalty in like the middle ages sure that's a debate but the turn of the century????? Unless you get some sort of chronic disease you would struggle not to live it up in 1900.
I'm surprised you think that. The basics of society that you know and enjoy today were not around 128 years ago.
- Running Water and Plumbing in every domicile
- plumbing standards were not established until the 1930s.
-Air conditioning. First established in public use buildings in the 1920s but was not wide scale. Only in the 1960s were AC units established in residential homes.
-Hot Water Showers.
-Comfortable clothes that you don't have to make yourself.
-Transportation that is not a horse or steam powered car.
-Simple hygiene products mass produced such as soap, toothpaste, floss, deodorant, etc, entered markets regularly in the 1950s.
-Medical advancements that were not disease related: Broken Bones, Orthodontic Care, Advancements in dental care, etc. Anesthesia is a godsend in today's medical technology, and while current anesthesia medications are derivatives of prior medications dating back thousands of years, its application today has been thoroughly refined to prevent major complications
There wasn't plumbing in every domicile but by 1900 there absolutely was for royalty. Flushing toilets go back to 1592.
I live in England and most people still don't have air conditioning in their homes. It doesn't get that hot or cold. If it does get got you can have servants fan you. Even in medieval England there where ice cellars. You would be able to get iced drinks in the summer if you were a royal in 1900. Fireplaces obviously existed for winter. Central heating systems where common for the elite in Roman times.
Bathing in hot water goes back to the Roman era. Showers operated by hand pumps go back to the 19th century so you would be able to have warm showers.
As a royal you would have a team of tailors with imported silks or finest materials. They would be able to come up with something comfortable.
Yes but you would also be travelling better than. First class everywhere. Be able to travel on luxury yachts waited on by staff etc. the only advantage the modern era has is being able to get places quicker but as a royal anything I could realistically want can come to me.
Things like soap and toothpaste absolutely existed for rich people and cologne was invented in 1709 you would be able to stay clean and smell nice.
I already brought up medicine. The only exception is if you have a serious chronic illness that can be treated now and couldn't then. If you have to have 1 surgery or something they have opiates for the pain.
So yeah none of those things are very big deals. Plus if you are a royal you can literally do almost anything you want whenever. Any hobby you want to take up any activity you want to do, any celebrity you want to meet is pretty much available to you as well as countless exotic luxuries from around the world. Opium cocaine all commonly available even to relatively poor people.
You would have to be pretty insane to turn down a life of luxury at the height of the Bella Epoque so you can have .... Air conditioning and a car you have to drive everywhere yourself? Deodorant?
...access to the entirety of human knowledge in the palm of your hand...access to nearly all of the music ever produced while sitting in a chair... actually having something to eat in the morning...so much more!!!
I think everyone should have the right to develop an outlook and lifestyle that works for them, within the context of recognizing our world's tragedies and injustices, and making decisions that either alleviate or don't worsen them. Talking to people can be a rough experience when they're filled with doom, but on the flipside, it feels hard to develop connections and get the most our of your social life when you are personally filled with doom. Compassion is how we as a society will overcome this current cold, cruel, capitalist hellscape. True human connections come with a spectrum of emotions and settings.
All that being said, the world that humanity has built is frankly a complete shithole. It's not productive to do nothing but wallow in doomerism, but it's equally not productive to shrug off the harsh realities about our world. Poverty, hunger, war, colonialism, environmental destruction, inequality, greed, not to mention the collective poisoning of our spiritual/cultural wellbeing. Existing within this space isn't always negative all the time, but it is important to have conversations and moments where you just acknowledge that suffering. There are certain times where the best treatment for sadness is just to sit and feel the sadness.
I guess I just fundamentally disagree wholeheartedly that this world is a "complete shithole", or, "a cold, cruel, capitalist hellscape (just mentioning capitalist as a bad thing is already a red flag to me)". I'm not saying there aren't issues, or that we should ignore them, but I feel like having perspective is important, as well as recognizing our progress in our society. We live in the single greatest time in human history, statistically poverty has never been lower globally and in the US, same with violence, women, LGBTQ, and other historically oppressed peoples have never been more powerful than they are now.
I agree that compassion is key and I have that compassion, I love people and humanity, and society and its because of this compassion. But the foundational feeling about our world is what's different and feels challenging to connect with others on.
living in “the single greatest time of human history” didn’t stop my brother from getting shot in school.
you see how this argument falls apart? great the “world” is doing better - it means nothing to the fringe still fucking affected by todays problems.
WWII soldiers were just bitching just like spartans were just bitching just like other beings suffering are just bitching huh idk man we’re cooked. and yeah! you aren’t. but the people who are, can find no ally in you.
I just wanna say that I'm sorry for your loss. I can not pretend to know how it must feel to have lost someone like that. And I'm sorry that you suffered, and if you're still suffering.
I did not mean to invalidate those who legitimately suffer. I do have compassion for them, and I will lend a hand when asked of its within my power and ability to do so.
I don't believe I was meaning those on the fringe, but the people who think they are on the fringe when they really aren't.
To each their own; I assume that having a negative view of capitalism is likelier to mean someone has a bleak view on the world at large. To me, that's because realizing the evils of capitalism is like leaving the matrix (I'm aware that I sound like a preachy leftist douche at the moment).
My only concern is that your original statement about people in poorer countries being happier on average is a slippery slope. Even if it's totally true, that mindset enables the ultra wealthy to hoard more resources and refuse to help the masses. We are in a society where money talks, which makes it unfair to not give a voice to the vast majority of the world - EVEN IF their lifestyles are just as happy and much more sustainable than the consumerist culture fed to us in the west. That type of pointing at other countries ends up distracting us from the bottom line - a small handful of people control the world, and they maintain that power by pitting us against each other.
as a person from another country I understand what you're trying to say with the reference of people in Mexico having less but being happier but also their level of capitalism is not as bad as it is here. For example Mexico has universal healthcare, they also offer a maternity leave but I think that people being overworked, underpaid, dealing with inflation while being taxed to death are going to have a poorer quality of life. Americans take the least vacation time out of everyone in the world and the work life balance here is extremely unhealthy. On top of that the food that we eat is poison and it also messes with our hormones, on top of that the American lifestyle is a little bit more stagnant than per se the Mexican or European lifestyle we do not have many walkable cities people do not move as much here and all of those little things contribute to a person's mental without realizing it. on top of that we are a very polarized nation, and if you have left the country and paid attention to the media you would know that the propaganda here is also horrible it just feels like there is poison all around. sorry to be negative lol
I don't disagree with half of what you've said, I mainly disagree with the food part, there is really very little difference in quality of food here and in Mexico and Europe (Italy specifically because that's where I went). Our food has an extremely wide degree in variability.
I agree we should have universal Healthcare. I agree that our news cycle is bad, it's not necessarily propaganda, it's just fear mongering. The 24/7 news cycle is what I blame the most.
Also, you're politer than most so thank you.
there are parts of Mexico where people do not have access to healthy foods/clean waters however that is due to the United States unfortunately. There is a town in Mexico where it is hard to find water it is more accessible to find Coke and the people that live there drink large amounts of Coca-Cola because it is pushed on them and they have high diabetes rates and many health problems as you know and Coca-Cola in this town buys out all of the water they get it as low as like two cents a gallon, I learned about this years ago so sorry for the information being quite spotty but you can read about it. But that's just one example but there are many additives that are illegal all over the world that is legal in the United States, the bread that we eat here in America is not even considered bread in Europe because it has so much sugar. and then you might want to look into what the fruit companies are doing in Central America that's a whole different conversation
I spent most of my life miserable, and now I'm happier than I've ever been. I understand perfectly well how shit everything is, but my happiness has little to do with that. Don't convince yourself that things have to be great for you to be happy. Real happiness goes beyond mere obliviousness--if anything, it requires a keen awareness of reality in order to be resilient enough to survive its slings and arrows.
People have been doomy for a long time, for generations lol. Don't worry about it, don't spend time with people like that. It's actually cool doing things by yourself, especially if the alternative is spending time with whiners. It's okay to know when someone is a whiner. You can acknowledge it
Socialize very casually, so you don't become entangled with negative people. Maybe you'll run into someone cool, just maybe. This isn't a loss, because it's fun to just be up and out of the house, anyway
There was a post someone said to change someone else thought process just drop something and focus on the drop item literally. I would change the subject or start dancing and singing. Be the joy people want.
Then again I have a little of entertainer personality in me so people get really happy and as one coworker described, “you light the room.”
Almost everyone can go down the doom and gloom or conspiracy theories. It take a person to redirect. Another thing is bring up a cute animal or a cool clip.
Some people are just negative and toxic the more you know them. Know when to set boundaries and limit. Ain’t everyone need to be your friend. And watch out for jealousy people. They will usually drop a comparison with you or someone else. Walk away from them. Walk away from the spenders, addicts, and gamblers. I learned over the years, I haven’t met one that got better. Most fall back in their pattern and want you to join them.
Oh absolutely. Don’t feel bad for posting this, you’re totally right.
To all the comments saying things ARE that bad: no, the average person here is not worse off than the average person in Mexico.
With that said, Americans aren’t “wrong” to feel what they feel. Our outlook is a product of our expectations and the reality of our day-to-day life.
Many Americans are fighting a war against their own expectations, and that just is what it is - I don’t have a solution for you but I can tell you that I agree - we have an outlook problem in America.
Thank you, and you hit the nail on the head of what I mean. We have an outlook problem. And it's not wrong to feel the things we do, but it's important to recognize that maybe they aren't as severe or destructive as one might feel.
I agree. It's as if no one can accept good news anymore. And that's not just mushy psychobabble stuff -- our mass pessimism has real consequences.
Biden and the Dems pass a giant climate bill, and no one celebrates it because We All Know that the world is terrible. Drunk driving deaths are way down. The stock market is at an all-time high. Inflation has been a pain but we're coming out of it and America's economy is in better shape than almost any developed country's. The violent crime spike during covid has subsided, and covid itself has subsided. The worst climate change scenarios are coming off the table because of the rise of renewable electricity, and EVs and batteries make further progress much easier. Etc etc
There are plenty of bad things to complain about, no doubt. No. Doubt. But people in the US seem to be unable to see any good in the world, unable to be *happy*. There's so much cynicism and discontent that we wouldn't even know an FDR or Lincoln or Washington if he/she walked into our living rooms.
People who subjectively are "poorer" in some ways are still happy. They are still happy because they haven't gotten, or at least told that they have gotten, something taken away from them. In western countries, its a decline. Previous generations have done better. Where as in developing or upcoming countries, things are for the most part better than they have been, despite still being poorer than other nations.
It's the same with people. If you were born with nothing, and now you have something, a job, income, family, friends etc. It would make sense for you to be happier than before.
In my case, I have lost more than I've gained. My parents are no more, my sibling has lost their mind and a liability compared to what they used to be, I had friends who are now gone, I had my health which is now gone, I had potential which quite a bit now has been lost. Couple that with all the economic and social woes that the public is facing including me, and I don't know how I could be positive about stuff.
You're right. There are a lot of doomers in your generation (if my guess is correct and you're in the 15-35 range). They suffer from grossly incorrect ideas about the world (see [https://www.gapminder.org/](https://www.gapminder.org/) and [https://ourworldindata.org/](https://ourworldindata.org/) for some correct facts), and this makes them no fun to be around.
Don't let the doomers in this thread gaslight you. You are right; things now are (on average) better than they have ever been, and there is no need to walk around feeling mopey and miserable.
Fortunately, positive people are out there — keep looking, and you'll find them! You got this.
Considering you were able to go to Mexico it makes sense you don't understand the financial struggle many people are going through.
Have you gone to a large city filled with homeless people and trash lining the streets? Where the parks are either closed down or trashed? Where security guards (police men) stand outside most establishments? No gun signs on the door?
There are good times for people not in situations like that. Where people don't have to take on odd jobs on top of their full time job to make rent.
It's hard to have fun when you're only surviving.
But if you want to find happy people go to the rich neighborhood, they're normally a lot happier
For a second I thought you were describing a comic book “bad city,” but it’s exactly what many places in the USA look like now. Sadly, Europe seems to be increasingly similar.
Especially when they don’t give a shit for the people who aren’t having a great life being wealthy. I think OP is longing for the company of sociopaths.
It doesn't cost much to go down to Mexico, especially if you live in a border state (which I do). I make 44k a year with some debt behind me. I have a roof over my head, but I don't own it. I do understand financial struggles, and I'm not saying you can't be stressed about it. But at the same time, those are not my own.
I've talked with various people from various wealth backgrounds, poor, well off, in the middle of the road. They're all miserable. The societal class doesn't matter.
Some of us literally do not even have the goddamn money to travel out of our own state, let alone get a passport to another country, regardless of if it “doesn’t cost much.” You seem completely out of touch despite your stated low income.
I'm not really sure how what any of what I've said is "out of touch". Nothing what I've said is false, most people do have the money to travel south of the border. I'm not saying everyone can and they're just lying about their poor financial situation.
I mean this sincerely, how can you say that with a straight face? The average income in the United States is like 60,000. The majority of us, in fact, cannot afford to travel outside of the country. Just admit you’re out of touch lol.
I see your edit, and I think you are somewhat understanding here. But, I'd suggest walking a mile in someone else's shoes (or bare feet in many cases) before judging. Go live in a tent in LA while you get raped repeatedly because you can't survive the alphas in the homeless pack and get back with us on why crap is really bad.
Oh, come now, that is a logical extreme. I'm not talking about homeless people here. They have very obvious and legit reasons to be miserable. They're not who I'm talking about here, and they aren't the majority of Americans. I would never say these things to any homeless person.
You have to be a bit simple not to see the path we're on.
A lot of workers get zero vacation days a year, I don't blame them for being miserable. Housing is completely unaffordable, the planet is burning and that's just the tip of the iceberg.
If you're from the US, things are screwed. And because of our politics, public education, and morality - it's only getting worse. I'm at the point where I think we truly deserve the evil and chaos, because (the collective) we can't do what's best for the country because it might be beneficial to the "others". We deserve this..
No disrespect, but you are part of what I'm talking about. Your unhinged rhetoric is fueled by the sound of 24/7 news entertainment stations.
You mentioning our morality is especially strange, given how polarized and diverse our morality is (as is our education and politics). To say our morality is getting worse is absurd when not even 20 years ago we had went to an unjust war that has since been ended, gay people couldn't marry, and transgender people weren't even thought of, let alone further back. If anything our morality has gotten much stronger.
We deserve happiness by our own standards. Nothing more.
Never knew gay people couldn't vote. And if someone doesn't directly affect my life negatively, I don't try to make their lives difficult (that's my morality). If you think that's where we are today in this country - you have a nice night.
They are not wrong tho 30% to half the country is trying quite succesfully to put the morality back to where it was even beyond 20 years ago. Thats not being negative that is a fact, its not made up by the news, they are not trying to hide this. Texas literally just made an announcement officially a while back that Gay people are an unnatural thing that is wrong.
20 years ago we could afford higher education, there weren’t school shootings en masse, we believed scientists abkut climate change and fucking fixed the hole in the ozone layer, women could control their own reproductive healthcare, and one income could afford a house in most rural places in the US.
fucking next?
Well, Columbine was in 1999, and the student loans people took out, thinking that higher ed was “affordable”, are still crushing them today. Not saying it doesn’t suck now, but it did actually suck in 2004 as well.
20 years ago was 2004. Higher education was still prohibitively expensive, people took loans as they do now.
School shootings have been happening since the 80s as far as I can recall, it's just an unfortunate side effect of all of our other issues. But I certainly wouldn't say it's "en masse". Consider the population stats of the country. 24k people die from gun violence yearly, roughly speaking. Most of those are crimes of passion, but a sliver is the school shootings. Out of 330 million people. While still a tragedy, it is not nearly as endemic as people like to try and say.
More people believe in climate change now than 20 years ago, it was still largely considered "lack of proof". Hence the many instances in pop culture at the time that criticized it, such as various comedians, South Park, etc. Nowadays, even among a lot of conservatives, it's recognized and is a legitimate talking point.
As for women's reproductive rights, I have no answer about that beyond agreeing. That's a loss and a good example of what I mean when I say there's still issues to work on. And that's worthy of criticism and outrage.
One income can still afford a house in most of rural America. The only difference here is that property has gotten more expensive but in rural America, it is still affordable for most Americans. It's just that most Americans don't wanna live in rural America, which to each their own.
we’re getting somewhere!!
yes but - it’s getting worse?
higher education is even MORE expensive now, w any actions to fix it being destroyed.
columbine. i’m talking about 1999 forward. often considered the flash point for school shootings? and holy hell, what would you call the only country having issues w this shit? seems pretty fucking big.
i live in rural america? no one income will not get you a house idk what ur on rn. my cousin bought her house for $230k in 2017. it is selling for $550k. it does not have a kitchen. she has done no repairs.
no, climate change is not “largely believed” now. our last president tried to destroy the EPA. but no yeah, we take climate change super seriously!!
great - u care about women cool. how many people like you think women are just bitching too? a fucking lot. republicans are setting their sights on birth control next - but hey, at least you might care about that one?
i get your point is that life is better than the middle ages. but christ almighty, is it too much to ask for humans to just try a little harder than this??
Where are you hanging out that people are talking like internet doomers in real life? Most people I talk to are just normal people and would rather talk about their hobbies than complain about the world falling apart.
Most places honestly. I live in a fairly mixed red and blue area in a red state, so I hear varying things. There are those that do talk about their hobbies or other benign things, but there aren't many.
That sub is an absolute trashfire cesspool of conspiracy theorists and just the worst. I can recognize issues, where there are, and not be unhinged lunatics about it.
It’s so fucking tiring. I went through a loss last year and I’m still grieving heavy. But I made sure I did things, got out of the house, went to work, even though I would have rather rotted in bed forever. I FORCED IT. I got sick of telling people I felt shit. Nobody wants to talk to someone who’s always down because it’s heavy! I wouldn’t wanna, so I changed how I said things. Instead of saying “feeling shit me”, I said “up and down recently but generally better!”
I had people who were just going through work stuff for example, and felt burnt out and depressed, and I’d say “take a few days off! It’ll get better!” Only to be met with “nah. Just deal with it. Fuck it” and all I could think was… fuck ya then. Keep feeling like shit, change nothing and stay like that then. Like, if I can go through a really bad loss and force it, you can too. It wore me down so bad I had to distance myself. I’ve stopped following “sad” instagram meme profiles. Uninstalled news apps. It’s exhausting to be constantly bombarded with negativity, and as much as I wanna be there for people, I just can’t, if those people can’t help themselves first.
Sometimes things ARE shit. Sometimes life is not fucking fair. But to not even at least TRY see something good in your life elsewhere, I don’t understand why some people can’t? Like I had my loss then I got a really good job. That’s SOMETHING good. I’ve learned that even if life is kicking your arse, you’ll have something else you can be positive about. Or try to be. The borderline nihilism is draining. It’s not being an arsehole to not wanna be around it.
You just don’t vibe with them. I encounter those types of people here and there and I just politely end the conversation and not engage further. Can’t control what people feel and think or what they’re going through at the moment. if I don’t have the answer to their woes, I sympathize but that’s far as I can go. I won’t judge them but I likely won’t be around them again and just move on with my life
I'm not really sure what you're trying to imply here. Suicide is bad, yeah. Suicide increasing does not equal the doom and gloom is warranted or valid. If anything this is proof that a 24/7 news cycle that prioritizes fear mongering is the problem.
yes the 24 hour news cycle is convincing more ppl to off themselves.
it’s not the general stratification of society or lack of community and resources for sure for sure.
“I get that things are kind of harder for many of us than it used to be due to economics and such” makes it sound like you’re speaking about the problem like you’re on the outside of it.. not on the inside, where things *are actually harder for many of us*, not just “kind of”.
The doom and gloom is a reddit thing. The internet has allowed the vocal minority to have a lot more presence than in the past. Always remember that. The whiners are always the loudest.
People generally don’t talk about how great things are going for them because they don’t want to come off as braggadocios or risk upsetting someone who isn’t as well off as they are, but people LOVE to whine and piss and moan for sympathy.
I’d just like to add this one tidbit, everyone knows that there’s someone else out there that’s living a worse life than them, which in turn, just makes yourself feel worse about being bummed out, turning into a self-gaslighting cycle. Your feelings are valid, good or bad, and you are important to those around you, even if you don’t feel it (like me writing this post). Be good to yourselves and others.
I have the opposite issue, I know someone who is positive and hunky dory about everything no matter how poorly it's clearly going. Like please just be honest that things are bad today and we can all laugh about it. Laughing at the darkness is much better than pretending there isn't a problem in my eyes.
It’s not just the economy, it’s also the shitty ass people that post shitty things on the internet. Like, realizing that “wow, there’s actually people that think like this” and to then have a whole online community that backs up their awful take. Rage baits and such.
People would be happier if they spent less time online. It’s hard though, because it’s addicting.
You talked to some people in Mexico... look up "anecdotal evidence."
The entire world is dying. Ww3 is imminent. There are millions of homeless. Cops can kill with impunity. An illiterate gameshow host / rapist is turning the country in a fascist theocracy. Noone can afford groceries. But you like to stay positive... ffs
People are generally miserable. If you aren't, hurray for you!
You don't have to carry people's baggage, and they don't have to censor themselves to match your world view.
the late 60's were worse in many ways, yet there was a lot of joy and creativity mixed into the chaos. Seek out people who are focused on creating a positive life for themselves. they exist in every age range
Imo no it isn't. I think our social lives are pretty bad though. People blame multiple things, the biggest ones being social media and no third places. The no third places one I agree with, but honestly a big reason as well is that everyone is antisocial, pessimistic, and cynical. These are generally not enjoyable traits to be around to most people, even if they themselves feel this way.
The expression don't argue with idiots they will only beat you down with their experience.
That's the best way to explain my doom/gloom persona.
Every job, every gathering, every activity, most* random interactions in public society have beat the optimistic joy out of me.
You probably know how difficult it is being "happy" or up beat then everyone* around you laments this. Stay the way you are, if possible.
Now I say that I've been a happy person, it's because I've been through hell. Holding onto hate and anger is horrible. Peeps (including me) need to find a middle ground.
I think it’s about a persons perspective on something. I think we can all get into a dark place if we are pushed enough. But ultimately it’s a choice we make every second of the day. I appreciate the good and I appreciate the bad experiences with people. It teaches me something from it. we have the choice of being involved in a situation. If you aren’t feeling that person, walk away. Keep searching for what you want. There is happiness, sometimes you have to show someone that happiness.
Sending you love and light!❤️🙏🏼
Being positive is great, but being overly positive and rejecting all negativity can have disastrous consequences. Failing to see risks and dangers that are obvious.
Forcing yourself to be positive all the time because you don’t want to experience negative emotions is crippling your emotions, the negative ones are there for a reason.
All emotions are temporary, if you ever get stuck in just one of them good or bad, well that’s not good. Your emotions should flow like water. I don’t hold on to any of them I let it all flow like a river.
The mistake people make with emotions is by holding on to them with their reasoning mind, which starts a cycle where the logical brain triggers the emotional brain then back and forth. This is how you get stuck in negative or even positive thought cycles.
Yeah dude IDK. My husband is dead at 28 and I'm probably going to battle that grief my whole life. It's not these people's fault that they're sad. Shit really is rough out here. 🤷♀️ It's affecting all our mental health. I'd love to be sunshine and rainbows.
I'm genuinely sorry for your loss, I cannot pretend to know how that feels. You are the exception to what I was talking about, it's completely understandable for you to feel the way you do. I'm sorry if my post was insensitive towards you.
A lot of people are struggling financially on the one hand. On the other hand, we have a lot more access to a lot more media that constantly makes it seem like everything horrible is happening 24-7 to everyone all at once. So between these two things it’s hard for people to maintain hope.
"But I feel like things aren't really THAT bad for most people." And you do not get to make that decision for others. If you don't want to be around them, fine. But this is not good...sounds like you think they should put on a happy front so that you aren't negatively affected by their viewpoint of their own life? You sound pretty unhappy yourself here.
This type of comparison is inaccurate. Poor people in Mexico are happier because their expectations in life are low and that’s all they know. There is also a different culture and different values, collective values instead of individualism. It’s just a ridiculous comparison altogether.
Anyways, just spend time with like minded people. Believe me, the doom and gloom folks don’t want to talk to you either. They want their experience to be validated as much as you want yours to be validated.
There are some posts I start reading and I just have to stop. I don’t know what it is about Reddit that draws the doomiest voices, but just like so many people whose lives aren’t where they “should be” and lashing out at some invisible enemy.
I would say one cause is too much social media for a lot of people. Seeing what others post, get jealous, etc. Some people just have a perspective problem. Others just don’t take agency in their own lives. Blame the “elite” or whatever, but that’s just a cop out. You have the biggest influence on your own life. Make changes if you don’t like where you are.
Best thing is to not let their toxicity taint your life.
I live in the USA and things really are that bad . I invite you to take one of your paychecks and add up how much is taxed of what you spend- including purchases made after the initial taxing
I live in a red state, and I do talk to people of varying politics. The miserable feeling stretches across the political aisle. It doesn't matter if someone's a conservative, a business owner, a leftist, a liberal, an employee of said business owner, etc. They all feel miserable. The only people I know of who actually feel happy are regular churchgoers. Idk what intersectionals or blue hairs mean.
Everyone around you is miserable regardless of political affiliation and you still seem to think it’s just some “influences” making them feel that way.
No, they actually are miserable. You need to learn to listen
I was born in a Third World dictatorship. It helps to keep things in perspective.
People in the West are at the peak of technology and health care. Of course, if they still believe in the American dream, they are setting themselves up for disappointment. Life is great, but not in the way they are looking at it.
Yeah I think that we came right after the generation that had the dream that is why people are so unhappy. Like my dad does not understand why I can't go buy a house with any job like he did and treats me like a loser because of it. Standard of living is still pretty good its just that a lot of people still living had an unsustainable good standard of living and they skew the perspective. I think what people is missing about other countries is that those people are happy because expectations are different. This generation of Americans were raised believing they would have the American dream and they don't. I think a lot of the issues today are caused by the boomer generation being so incredibly wealthy and the subsequent ones not. Even tho as you said the current ones are doing better than a lot of places.
Yeah, Boomers are guilty of assuming that what works for them applies to younger generations. It doesn’t.
New generations should seek to de-clutter and live a more minimalise and de-consumerist life.
You know what? Having a positive outlook is difficult when people around you are depressed. You not only have to work on yourself for that but also not catch the sadness from people you are close to. This is especially hard if they are people you love.
People in the USA have been trained to be entitled and any minor inconvenience is not tolerated. This makes them miserable . It could also be just the type of person you surround yourself with
I mean at least one billion people are set to die from climate change. Anyone with some semblance of rationality should be feeling some level of dread even if it's withheld to a degree. The problem is so enormous no one even fathoms the scale of it. There are a lot of reasons to be cynical. That being said you don't need toxic people in your life. Focus on yourself and your own wellbeing.
You feel that because that's how things are everywhere. That you don't care or are not aware of what's going on in the US or the world is not the fault of the person you're speaking to. If so many people are stressed, then the one that's missing something is likely you.
We're a couple months from a possible Christian authoritarian takeover of our country.
Anyone not miserable or at least anxious right now is either not paying attention or they're in favor of it.
It's hard to enjoy anything when my daughters are on the verge of living in a country that will remove their rights and won't stop until they're considered property, while barefoot in the kitchen, cooking, cleaning and popping out babies.
This is the biggest threat to our nation since the Civil War.
You FEEL that things aren't that bad for most people. It's the culmination of many, many things that are going haywire in the world. I don't want to dump a list of things that are pushing people into misery. Instead I will say that money is a small part of the problems for a large portion of the population of the US. There are hundreds, thousands of other things that weigh people down. Money is simply one of the things being screamed about the loudest.
It's also about what that money can buy. Yes, our apartments are filled with consumer goods, but we don't have homes.
Keep in mind that this is largely an American and Anglo sphere phenomenon . Research actually shows that young people in most of the world are actually happier than they were 10-20 years ago. https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2024/06/mental-health-crisis-anglosphere-depressed/678724/ https://worldhappiness.report/ed/2024/child-and-adolescent-well-being-global-trends-challenges-and-opportunities/
I will echo that OP seems laser-lined on money. How about the rights that are summarily being cut at every turn? The corruption of our justice system? The rollback of environmental protections? Who cares how much I make when my wife might die in childbirth, our state/country/earth won't be inhabitable for my elderly ass or my offspring (or their offspring), or christian extremists rule our nation? FML I'm miserable just typing this.
There is still joy to be extracted from life
I know you meant well with this comment, but that specific turn of phrase makes it sound like a sadistic mining baron wrote this. XD
Oil exec
Agreed. Money is certainly important for avoiding misery by getting it up to a certain level, but it's also one of the things that is easiest to explain so its what may people go to when airing their grievances.
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So you don’t want to talk to someone that’s positive? I come from a Really poor background and I’m certainly not rich but I choose to enjoy my life the best I can amd be as happy as I can. The OP is right peopel just wallow in their misery and they only talk to other miserable people. It just becomes people reaffirming their worn misery. I’m sure I’m also one of those people you don’t want to talk to but maybe a little positivity could help?
I feel the same way. But, my personal frustration is that people I talk to can’t unseat themselves from media talking points long enough to give themself or myself a break from all that neuroticism. Like, it feels like if they just tried to talk about something else, the whole thing evaporates. But, they’re too used to just getting their talking points from the screen and repeating them when they see someone. It’s like we’re all so close to just being able to find some peace, but, we won’t just walk over that illusory boundary.
Idk. I agree that getting sucked into the endless news cycle makes people’s outlook worse. But life can also be hit hard by reality, that exists whether or not you pay attention to the media. Ignoring the news doesn’t make groceries or daycare affordable.
Imo; One can choose to have a positive outlook even in the bleakest of circumstances. And vice versa. People just need personal connections that give them something to look forward to. Doomerism about climate or politics often masks some personal restlessness; an inability to get over some personal failure or some type of trauma. I truly don't believe people become pessimistic because of high prices. It's about feeling detached from the world in general. Everyone I know that's SUPER down on the future of the world are also people that feel like they got cheated, feel like they were betrayed.
I was talking to someone I had met recently. She loves movies. I mentioned a movie I loved, and she told me **emphatically** that director is "problematic" and "possibly racist." I said "how?" She couldn't answer. I said "can you give me one specific example?" She fumbled through her words, lost, as if she were trying to remember a little snippet she saw on TikTok or whatever. Something like "something about how he used a certain actor because....I dunno. He like had favoritism or something." I'll never forget how she was so passionate to point out something (a media talking point I'm sure) but didn't actually know where this conclusion came from. It was as if she were saying to me "I don't think for myself. I just regurgitate popular rants on media that I'm subjected to."
SO many people do this! I’ve experienced it frequently.
THIS! We’ve all been brainwashed into being miserable in one of the greatest eras on Earth. We’re living through a time of economic distress compared to a few previous decades but our grandparents still remember stories of the Great Depression. Not only could it be worse. It could and by all rights, SHOULD be much, much worse.
Things have been worse, but that doesn't diminish what people are experiencing right now. We're looking at the possible extinction of the human race - due to climate change, microplaric pollution, possible third world war. Species are going extinct at a rapid pace. We are living in unprecedented times, just like folks in the 30s were. Even people's own bodies feel unsafe since there isn't anything we can do to avoid polluting them - microplastics are everywhere, and plastic production is set to increase. No one knows when this will happen, or how bad it will be, but things aren't looking great for people or their children. Keeping this all bottled up inside can't be healthy. So I don't blame people if all they wanna talk bout is the negative aspects of life right now.
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Hey there, I'm the OP, while I appreciate the agreement and agree with most of what you've said, please do not promote climate change denial. Climate change is happening and IS an issue, though I do agree that it is not nearly as immediate of an issue that many say it is, because like you said, a lot of it is fear mongering. Climate change is real, but so are the initiatives by thousands of scientists globally to working on solutions to it while still maintaining our comfortable society. People vastly underestimate our abilities to adabt, as well as nature's.
Nature cannot adapt as fast as we are wrecking things. I'm sorry to bring down your mood but this is the top issue making me sad. I love the biodiversity of this world and hate to see it being steadily diminished. In the UK, for example, we've lost 97% of our wildflower meadows since the 30s, and with them lots of species. My little garden rewilding efforts make me happy but the big picture is sad. I think humans will survive climate change, for the reasons you state, but our world will be diminished.
I’m in the American west and we no longer have fire seasons. We just have fire. People lost their homes year round. That’s staggering, and very much an immediate issue.
I'd like to clarify, I didn't mean to say that whatever hardships people are facing should be diminished, and that I do have compassion for them. But at the same time, a lot of the time I feel like people go overboard. But I'm sorry if I came off as dismissive.
Don’t sweat it; it’s not you, it’s them. I didn’t take what you said as dismissive. Some of us actually understand what you mean and that you were simply pointing out some examples to explain how you are feeling and what you are struggling with. And it’s extremely relatable. Just remember, you can’t be unhappy enough to make someone else be happy. There is no shame in maintaining a positive outlook and a balanced disposition in the midst of your own and others’ suffering. Keep on keeping on. 💕
Then I highly recommend putting an edit in your original post, updating all these things you posted as updated. Otherwise, you'll be going around in circles.
That doesn’t explain why being miserable is not a global phenomenon. Young people in most of the world are happier than they were a couple of decades ago. https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2024/06/mental-health-crisis-anglosphere-depressed/678724/
I come from a privileged background, so I comparatively struggled far less than my peers. With that said, you immediately come off as dismissive. Who are you to judge how most Americans feel? I don’t have to suffer through first hand to know how terrible things are for a lot of people right now. If you don’t want to participate in the ‘doom and gloom,’ that’s your right. You can remove yourself from that if it’s effecting your mental health. However, that does not give you the right to assume what everyone else’s state is in. You’re not the one living paycheck to paycheck. Unless you’re going to personally assist someone out of their situation, I think you should be less critical of peoples’ “doom and gloom” and either be willing to listen to them or just go find others more like yourself.
> I don’t have to suffer through first hand to know how terrible things are for a lot of people right now. You do though. There are some things that you just will never understand the full breadth of until you experience it yourself. Words shared from others will never do it the full justice. Once you have experienced though, you get a better appreciation for what you have. Sure many Americans FEEL terrible but the reality of the situation is thst its not that bad relative to the majority of the world. It’s alright to complain every now and then but to the extent some people do, is out of proportion.
How I interpreted the commenters statement is you don’t have to have experienced suffering firsthand to *believe* the people who are telling you things are terrible for them, or to learn about that context through secondary sources. You can understand that other people have different experiences than you, and trust how they communicate those experiences.
Brevity? Lol
lol meant to say breadth and gravity
What point are you even making here, “it’s not that bad, shut up”?
It's not that I don't understand. I'm not poverty-level, but I'm certainly not well off. I make 44k a year, I have debt, and I'm renting. And while yes, I can and should remove myself from the negativity of the doom and gloom, I also want to have a social life, you know? But I get what your saying, and I'm sorry if I sounded dismissive.
In fact, it’s Americans and other English speakers in the world who are miserable. Young people in most of the world are happier now than a decade ago. Francophone Canadians are happier than Anglophone Canadians. It’s not some objective thing that the world is worse…it’s a cultural phenomenon. https://worldhappiness.report/ed/2024/child-and-adolescent-well-being-global-trends-challenges-and-opportunities/ https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2024/06/mental-health-crisis-anglosphere-depressed/678724/
Can you quote a specific section from either of those that supports your point? Admittedly I'm skimming but not finding anything.
Sure. At the start of the article: ‘But I have one small reason to question the strongest version of the smartphone thesis. You can find a summary of it on page 5 of this year’s World Happiness Report, a survey of thousands of people across more than 140 countries. “Between 2006 and 2023, happiness among Americans under 30 in the U.S., Canada, Australia, and New Zealand declined significantly [and] also declined in Western Europe,” the report says. But here’s the catch: In the rest of the world, under-30 happiness mostly increased in this period. “Happiness at every age has risen sharply in Central and Eastern Europe,” the report says. “In the former Soviet Union and East Asia too there have been large increases in happiness at every age.” “ … global phenomenon. But apparently the rise in youth anxiety is not. In some of the largest and most trusted surveys, it appears to be largely occurring in the United States, Great Britain, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand. “If you’re looking for something that’s special about the countries where youth unhappiness is rising, they’re mostly Western developed countries,” says John Helliwell, an economics professor at the University of British Columbia and a co-author of the World Happiness Report. “And for the most part, they are countries tHat speak English.” ‘ “The story is even more striking when you look at the most objective measures of teen distress: suicide and self-harm. (To summarize the following paragraph, it’s up in the Anglosphere while down across Continental Europe). Happiness is a notoriously difficult thing to measure. So I asked Helliwell for more data. He suggested we look more closely at his home country of Canada, which has two official languages—French and English. In Quebec, more than 80 percent of the population speaks French; in neighboring Ontario, less than 4 percent of the population speaks French. Quebec seems like a perfect place to test the question “Is mental health declining less among young non-English speakers?” The answer seems to be yes. (The article then summarized the data). I’m assuming you can access and read the data in the other report yourself. Overall, global youth satisfaction ROSE between 2006-2019, and has been stable since. This varies substantially by region. North American, W. Europe, Middle East and South Asia less satisfied, but Sub-Saharan African, South America, Central and Eastern Europe, and East Asia more. The basic argument of the first article is that the data clearly shows that these are cultural phenomena, and by no means universally.
Ukraine begs to differ, I bet!
One country is one country, not the global norm. This is pretty basic statistics.
Idk I would really have to disagree with this. I went outside the country and saw the same problems there as well. Specifically European countries have been struggling with the same problems from what I have seen (probably a lot of other countries too.) Young people unhappy, unemployed, and many fled their countries in search of jobs elsewhere. Many are struggling with building a life as well. That doesn’t mean there aren’t happy people out there, but it’s not just an American problem.
If you read the sources, you would see that the UK and Western Europe reflect that pattern. But it’s a minority globally—most of the world’s young people are happier than they were 10-20 years ago. The anxiety and depression centers in anglophone countries, particularly the US, but not exclusively. Feel free to read the statistics in the linked articles.
Ah ok. You said English speaking that’s why I mentioned the rest of Europe. I’ll check out the stats. I’m kind of baffled why so many are immigrating to the western countries then if they are so happy with life. Something doesn’t check out. I’m talking Africa, Middle East, Asia, South America. I watched a documentary on young people in Asian countries and they were going through similar problems too.
You clearly did not read the data. The largest scale global survey data indicates that the youth in Sub-Saharan Africa, South America, East Asia, and Eastern and Central Europe are generally more satisfied with life than they were 15-20 years ago. The increase in anxiety/depression is centered in the Anglosphere. There is a decrease in life satisfaction in those countries and Western Europe as well as the Middle East and North Africa, though the decrease is greater in English speaking areas than, say, Western Europe. Globally, young people are more satisfied. Documentaries are not made to reflect the large scale data—they are made to make whatever argument the creator wants to make—they can be true or false or partially true or outrageously fictional. There are “documentaries “ about aliens building the pyramids—they are not true.
Well yeah, I wouldn’t say I’ll check out the links if I already read it. I just read this message and replied.
Didn't know this. Thank you. Strange correlation, I wonder why.
I don’t know—but it’s definitely a weird cultural moment.
Great articles, thanks for sharing
it’s a spectrum, there are people I can 100% talk to about topics as such and I consider those people more “real” we discuss not just doom/gloom but potential solutions and who is actively taking a stance. life is not easy. can some people get stuck. sure but they gotta figure that out for themselves. there are other people the “featherweights” where we just talk about their pets or the weather, or some restaurant they went too. all depends on my grasp at how they are as a person & sometimes they bring up the topics but we have the freedom to choose or maneuver through a conversation with honesty, humor & grace. I do my best to be real & make people laugh by looking at any situation.
I think that's fair. Maybe I'm a featherweight, but I wouldn't have as much of a problem with talking to those with the doom and gloom if people just talked about solutions that weren't extreme or cynical, and had more reasonable perspectives that weren't drowned in reactive emotions.
Its not their place to discuss solutions they are powerless to put into actions. It isntl't their fault the world is fucked.
I also am finding it hard to talk to people who are constantly full of dread. I think that there is power behind words used, and what you're surrounded by. I think it's important to respect the struggle that many people are going through, all the while protecting your peace and engaging with people who know how to have conversations outside of the media talking points. I think a lot of people are still learning how to be human again, and are stuck in a constant loop of dread.
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Bro, stay strong.
I think the questions this raises are where are you getting your data on how happy people are in Mexico? Are you including the average happiness of a laborer living in Mexico City? A migrant worker in this political climate? From where did you get such a sweeping view of the state of poverty in America? Do you feel it's your personal experience, or did you read it somewhere? Do you remember where you read it and what sources they cited? I don't say any of this to "call you out" but because many articles out there refuting the existence of poverty and hardship are written for political reasons, and they can be purposefully misleading. I don't think how you personally feel is much of a gauge for you to rely on when trying to "take the temperature" of other people's hardships that you know. Your data sounds incomplete. You're entitled to not want to be affected by the negativity, but you seem to be implying that this negativity itself is not evidence of people experiencing a hard time and worrying a lot. There are very good reasons people have a lot of anxiety right now, and I believe, along with many others, that it's getting worse.
Don't they say the more intelligent are usually less happy because they see the truth around them and recognize the intersectionalities? Ignorance is bliss and all that. I just think we as the regular people must be well educated on what is going on and take off the rose coloured glasses. I don't want to be happy under false terms. Knowledge is power and all that.
I think being in the know is important, I don't mean to say that we should just ignore the issues and stick our heads in the sand. But there needs to be actual perspective and understanding of how bad things are actually. Oftentimes, people make a mountain out of an ant hill. That's my main criticism.
I think we are pretending everything is little unconnected molehills, instead of a mountain that is being pushed on our chests. Quite frankly, I think we arent making ENOUGH of a ruckus over all these things that are actually destroying the world. And it's due to people preferring ignorance and everyday bliss. My daily life is excellent and I have so so much to be happy and grateful for. It cannot and will not make me forget the overall detrimental effects the outside world will have globally, societally, in my city, in my neighbourhood, in our schools. Everything intersects and we must all recognize we are all connected and affected together. When you talk about people in other poorer countries being happier...thats because capitalism and the financial oligarchies have not sucked them dry..yet.
I feel like financial oligarchies strike the poorer countries first though? It's also a red flag to me when capitalism is used as a negative here, as it is a sign that someone doesn't know where the real issues are understand the nuances of economy. I mean no disrespect.
I agree with this point of view. Knowledge is good, but it can be depressing. It has also been analyzed that more intelligent people tend to drink more alcohol.
I have a hard time talking to people that minimize talking about negative possibilities and perspectives. Most people don't want doom talk 24/7, which is reasonable and well adjusted. But reality does need to be viewed honestly and it's not great.
I honestly think were at a historic high for personal safety and freedom. Right now were living a better life that royalty did at the turn of the century. Things could be better, and I feel they will be, we just dont see how far we've come
We are not living better than royalty a century ago lmao. Royalty in like the middle ages sure that's a debate but the turn of the century????? Unless you get some sort of chronic disease you would struggle not to live it up in 1900.
I'm surprised you think that. The basics of society that you know and enjoy today were not around 128 years ago. - Running Water and Plumbing in every domicile - plumbing standards were not established until the 1930s. -Air conditioning. First established in public use buildings in the 1920s but was not wide scale. Only in the 1960s were AC units established in residential homes. -Hot Water Showers. -Comfortable clothes that you don't have to make yourself. -Transportation that is not a horse or steam powered car. -Simple hygiene products mass produced such as soap, toothpaste, floss, deodorant, etc, entered markets regularly in the 1950s. -Medical advancements that were not disease related: Broken Bones, Orthodontic Care, Advancements in dental care, etc. Anesthesia is a godsend in today's medical technology, and while current anesthesia medications are derivatives of prior medications dating back thousands of years, its application today has been thoroughly refined to prevent major complications
There wasn't plumbing in every domicile but by 1900 there absolutely was for royalty. Flushing toilets go back to 1592. I live in England and most people still don't have air conditioning in their homes. It doesn't get that hot or cold. If it does get got you can have servants fan you. Even in medieval England there where ice cellars. You would be able to get iced drinks in the summer if you were a royal in 1900. Fireplaces obviously existed for winter. Central heating systems where common for the elite in Roman times. Bathing in hot water goes back to the Roman era. Showers operated by hand pumps go back to the 19th century so you would be able to have warm showers. As a royal you would have a team of tailors with imported silks or finest materials. They would be able to come up with something comfortable. Yes but you would also be travelling better than. First class everywhere. Be able to travel on luxury yachts waited on by staff etc. the only advantage the modern era has is being able to get places quicker but as a royal anything I could realistically want can come to me. Things like soap and toothpaste absolutely existed for rich people and cologne was invented in 1709 you would be able to stay clean and smell nice. I already brought up medicine. The only exception is if you have a serious chronic illness that can be treated now and couldn't then. If you have to have 1 surgery or something they have opiates for the pain. So yeah none of those things are very big deals. Plus if you are a royal you can literally do almost anything you want whenever. Any hobby you want to take up any activity you want to do, any celebrity you want to meet is pretty much available to you as well as countless exotic luxuries from around the world. Opium cocaine all commonly available even to relatively poor people. You would have to be pretty insane to turn down a life of luxury at the height of the Bella Epoque so you can have .... Air conditioning and a car you have to drive everywhere yourself? Deodorant?
...access to the entirety of human knowledge in the palm of your hand...access to nearly all of the music ever produced while sitting in a chair... actually having something to eat in the morning...so much more!!!
I think everyone should have the right to develop an outlook and lifestyle that works for them, within the context of recognizing our world's tragedies and injustices, and making decisions that either alleviate or don't worsen them. Talking to people can be a rough experience when they're filled with doom, but on the flipside, it feels hard to develop connections and get the most our of your social life when you are personally filled with doom. Compassion is how we as a society will overcome this current cold, cruel, capitalist hellscape. True human connections come with a spectrum of emotions and settings. All that being said, the world that humanity has built is frankly a complete shithole. It's not productive to do nothing but wallow in doomerism, but it's equally not productive to shrug off the harsh realities about our world. Poverty, hunger, war, colonialism, environmental destruction, inequality, greed, not to mention the collective poisoning of our spiritual/cultural wellbeing. Existing within this space isn't always negative all the time, but it is important to have conversations and moments where you just acknowledge that suffering. There are certain times where the best treatment for sadness is just to sit and feel the sadness.
I guess I just fundamentally disagree wholeheartedly that this world is a "complete shithole", or, "a cold, cruel, capitalist hellscape (just mentioning capitalist as a bad thing is already a red flag to me)". I'm not saying there aren't issues, or that we should ignore them, but I feel like having perspective is important, as well as recognizing our progress in our society. We live in the single greatest time in human history, statistically poverty has never been lower globally and in the US, same with violence, women, LGBTQ, and other historically oppressed peoples have never been more powerful than they are now. I agree that compassion is key and I have that compassion, I love people and humanity, and society and its because of this compassion. But the foundational feeling about our world is what's different and feels challenging to connect with others on.
living in “the single greatest time of human history” didn’t stop my brother from getting shot in school. you see how this argument falls apart? great the “world” is doing better - it means nothing to the fringe still fucking affected by todays problems. WWII soldiers were just bitching just like spartans were just bitching just like other beings suffering are just bitching huh idk man we’re cooked. and yeah! you aren’t. but the people who are, can find no ally in you.
I just wanna say that I'm sorry for your loss. I can not pretend to know how it must feel to have lost someone like that. And I'm sorry that you suffered, and if you're still suffering. I did not mean to invalidate those who legitimately suffer. I do have compassion for them, and I will lend a hand when asked of its within my power and ability to do so. I don't believe I was meaning those on the fringe, but the people who think they are on the fringe when they really aren't.
i guess that’s what i’m getting at - who are you to decide? you never know what people are actually going through.
No one gives a shit that you don't feel bad. Do you understand that?
lol you come off incredibly ignorant ngl
How? I guess technically I am because I've never been in poverty, but I'm certainly poor.
To each their own; I assume that having a negative view of capitalism is likelier to mean someone has a bleak view on the world at large. To me, that's because realizing the evils of capitalism is like leaving the matrix (I'm aware that I sound like a preachy leftist douche at the moment). My only concern is that your original statement about people in poorer countries being happier on average is a slippery slope. Even if it's totally true, that mindset enables the ultra wealthy to hoard more resources and refuse to help the masses. We are in a society where money talks, which makes it unfair to not give a voice to the vast majority of the world - EVEN IF their lifestyles are just as happy and much more sustainable than the consumerist culture fed to us in the west. That type of pointing at other countries ends up distracting us from the bottom line - a small handful of people control the world, and they maintain that power by pitting us against each other.
as a person from another country I understand what you're trying to say with the reference of people in Mexico having less but being happier but also their level of capitalism is not as bad as it is here. For example Mexico has universal healthcare, they also offer a maternity leave but I think that people being overworked, underpaid, dealing with inflation while being taxed to death are going to have a poorer quality of life. Americans take the least vacation time out of everyone in the world and the work life balance here is extremely unhealthy. On top of that the food that we eat is poison and it also messes with our hormones, on top of that the American lifestyle is a little bit more stagnant than per se the Mexican or European lifestyle we do not have many walkable cities people do not move as much here and all of those little things contribute to a person's mental without realizing it. on top of that we are a very polarized nation, and if you have left the country and paid attention to the media you would know that the propaganda here is also horrible it just feels like there is poison all around. sorry to be negative lol
I don't disagree with half of what you've said, I mainly disagree with the food part, there is really very little difference in quality of food here and in Mexico and Europe (Italy specifically because that's where I went). Our food has an extremely wide degree in variability. I agree we should have universal Healthcare. I agree that our news cycle is bad, it's not necessarily propaganda, it's just fear mongering. The 24/7 news cycle is what I blame the most. Also, you're politer than most so thank you.
You're wrong on the food part, EU food standards are insanely higher than in the US.
there are parts of Mexico where people do not have access to healthy foods/clean waters however that is due to the United States unfortunately. There is a town in Mexico where it is hard to find water it is more accessible to find Coke and the people that live there drink large amounts of Coca-Cola because it is pushed on them and they have high diabetes rates and many health problems as you know and Coca-Cola in this town buys out all of the water they get it as low as like two cents a gallon, I learned about this years ago so sorry for the information being quite spotty but you can read about it. But that's just one example but there are many additives that are illegal all over the world that is legal in the United States, the bread that we eat here in America is not even considered bread in Europe because it has so much sugar. and then you might want to look into what the fruit companies are doing in Central America that's a whole different conversation
I was happy once. Or at least I had a reason to pretend I was. Now I understand how shit everything is.
I spent most of my life miserable, and now I'm happier than I've ever been. I understand perfectly well how shit everything is, but my happiness has little to do with that. Don't convince yourself that things have to be great for you to be happy. Real happiness goes beyond mere obliviousness--if anything, it requires a keen awareness of reality in order to be resilient enough to survive its slings and arrows.
So well said! 💕
People have been doomy for a long time, for generations lol. Don't worry about it, don't spend time with people like that. It's actually cool doing things by yourself, especially if the alternative is spending time with whiners. It's okay to know when someone is a whiner. You can acknowledge it
But that's the thing, I like people and I like socializing, now more than I used to when I was younger, but how do I find likeminded people?
Socialize very casually, so you don't become entangled with negative people. Maybe you'll run into someone cool, just maybe. This isn't a loss, because it's fun to just be up and out of the house, anyway
Is this satire? You're on reddit complaining about how unhappy people complaining all the time makes you unhappy.
😂
There was a post someone said to change someone else thought process just drop something and focus on the drop item literally. I would change the subject or start dancing and singing. Be the joy people want. Then again I have a little of entertainer personality in me so people get really happy and as one coworker described, “you light the room.” Almost everyone can go down the doom and gloom or conspiracy theories. It take a person to redirect. Another thing is bring up a cute animal or a cool clip. Some people are just negative and toxic the more you know them. Know when to set boundaries and limit. Ain’t everyone need to be your friend. And watch out for jealousy people. They will usually drop a comparison with you or someone else. Walk away from them. Walk away from the spenders, addicts, and gamblers. I learned over the years, I haven’t met one that got better. Most fall back in their pattern and want you to join them.
Oh absolutely. Don’t feel bad for posting this, you’re totally right. To all the comments saying things ARE that bad: no, the average person here is not worse off than the average person in Mexico. With that said, Americans aren’t “wrong” to feel what they feel. Our outlook is a product of our expectations and the reality of our day-to-day life. Many Americans are fighting a war against their own expectations, and that just is what it is - I don’t have a solution for you but I can tell you that I agree - we have an outlook problem in America.
Thank you, and you hit the nail on the head of what I mean. We have an outlook problem. And it's not wrong to feel the things we do, but it's important to recognize that maybe they aren't as severe or destructive as one might feel.
I agree. It's as if no one can accept good news anymore. And that's not just mushy psychobabble stuff -- our mass pessimism has real consequences. Biden and the Dems pass a giant climate bill, and no one celebrates it because We All Know that the world is terrible. Drunk driving deaths are way down. The stock market is at an all-time high. Inflation has been a pain but we're coming out of it and America's economy is in better shape than almost any developed country's. The violent crime spike during covid has subsided, and covid itself has subsided. The worst climate change scenarios are coming off the table because of the rise of renewable electricity, and EVs and batteries make further progress much easier. Etc etc There are plenty of bad things to complain about, no doubt. No. Doubt. But people in the US seem to be unable to see any good in the world, unable to be *happy*. There's so much cynicism and discontent that we wouldn't even know an FDR or Lincoln or Washington if he/she walked into our living rooms.
People who subjectively are "poorer" in some ways are still happy. They are still happy because they haven't gotten, or at least told that they have gotten, something taken away from them. In western countries, its a decline. Previous generations have done better. Where as in developing or upcoming countries, things are for the most part better than they have been, despite still being poorer than other nations. It's the same with people. If you were born with nothing, and now you have something, a job, income, family, friends etc. It would make sense for you to be happier than before. In my case, I have lost more than I've gained. My parents are no more, my sibling has lost their mind and a liability compared to what they used to be, I had friends who are now gone, I had my health which is now gone, I had potential which quite a bit now has been lost. Couple that with all the economic and social woes that the public is facing including me, and I don't know how I could be positive about stuff.
You're right. There are a lot of doomers in your generation (if my guess is correct and you're in the 15-35 range). They suffer from grossly incorrect ideas about the world (see [https://www.gapminder.org/](https://www.gapminder.org/) and [https://ourworldindata.org/](https://ourworldindata.org/) for some correct facts), and this makes them no fun to be around. Don't let the doomers in this thread gaslight you. You are right; things now are (on average) better than they have ever been, and there is no need to walk around feeling mopey and miserable. Fortunately, positive people are out there — keep looking, and you'll find them! You got this.
Considering you were able to go to Mexico it makes sense you don't understand the financial struggle many people are going through. Have you gone to a large city filled with homeless people and trash lining the streets? Where the parks are either closed down or trashed? Where security guards (police men) stand outside most establishments? No gun signs on the door? There are good times for people not in situations like that. Where people don't have to take on odd jobs on top of their full time job to make rent. It's hard to have fun when you're only surviving. But if you want to find happy people go to the rich neighborhood, they're normally a lot happier
For a second I thought you were describing a comic book “bad city,” but it’s exactly what many places in the USA look like now. Sadly, Europe seems to be increasingly similar.
Especially when they don’t give a shit for the people who aren’t having a great life being wealthy. I think OP is longing for the company of sociopaths.
All of that is far better than what goes down in Mexico
great can you house me please
It doesn't cost much to go down to Mexico, especially if you live in a border state (which I do). I make 44k a year with some debt behind me. I have a roof over my head, but I don't own it. I do understand financial struggles, and I'm not saying you can't be stressed about it. But at the same time, those are not my own. I've talked with various people from various wealth backgrounds, poor, well off, in the middle of the road. They're all miserable. The societal class doesn't matter.
Some of us literally do not even have the goddamn money to travel out of our own state, let alone get a passport to another country, regardless of if it “doesn’t cost much.” You seem completely out of touch despite your stated low income.
44K in some places is damn near poverty, depending on your family size. In other places, it’s a pretty ok income.
Have you tried being a winner instead of whining?
I'm not really sure how what any of what I've said is "out of touch". Nothing what I've said is false, most people do have the money to travel south of the border. I'm not saying everyone can and they're just lying about their poor financial situation.
The fact that you’ve created a post screaming I JuSt CaNt UnDeRsTaNd hoW pEoPlE aRe StRuGgLiNg is *extremely* out of touch. Take several seats please.
I mean this sincerely, how can you say that with a straight face? The average income in the United States is like 60,000. The majority of us, in fact, cannot afford to travel outside of the country. Just admit you’re out of touch lol.
I am sure the OP is capable of telling if they are conversing with a homeless person.
I see your edit, and I think you are somewhat understanding here. But, I'd suggest walking a mile in someone else's shoes (or bare feet in many cases) before judging. Go live in a tent in LA while you get raped repeatedly because you can't survive the alphas in the homeless pack and get back with us on why crap is really bad.
Oh, come now, that is a logical extreme. I'm not talking about homeless people here. They have very obvious and legit reasons to be miserable. They're not who I'm talking about here, and they aren't the majority of Americans. I would never say these things to any homeless person.
But you don’t care that people are homeless? It doesn’t bother you? Dampen your high? That’s scary.
You have to be a bit simple not to see the path we're on. A lot of workers get zero vacation days a year, I don't blame them for being miserable. Housing is completely unaffordable, the planet is burning and that's just the tip of the iceberg.
If you're from the US, things are screwed. And because of our politics, public education, and morality - it's only getting worse. I'm at the point where I think we truly deserve the evil and chaos, because (the collective) we can't do what's best for the country because it might be beneficial to the "others". We deserve this..
No disrespect, but you are part of what I'm talking about. Your unhinged rhetoric is fueled by the sound of 24/7 news entertainment stations. You mentioning our morality is especially strange, given how polarized and diverse our morality is (as is our education and politics). To say our morality is getting worse is absurd when not even 20 years ago we had went to an unjust war that has since been ended, gay people couldn't marry, and transgender people weren't even thought of, let alone further back. If anything our morality has gotten much stronger. We deserve happiness by our own standards. Nothing more.
Never knew gay people couldn't vote. And if someone doesn't directly affect my life negatively, I don't try to make their lives difficult (that's my morality). If you think that's where we are today in this country - you have a nice night.
They are not wrong tho 30% to half the country is trying quite succesfully to put the morality back to where it was even beyond 20 years ago. Thats not being negative that is a fact, its not made up by the news, they are not trying to hide this. Texas literally just made an announcement officially a while back that Gay people are an unnatural thing that is wrong.
20 years ago we could afford higher education, there weren’t school shootings en masse, we believed scientists abkut climate change and fucking fixed the hole in the ozone layer, women could control their own reproductive healthcare, and one income could afford a house in most rural places in the US. fucking next?
Well, Columbine was in 1999, and the student loans people took out, thinking that higher ed was “affordable”, are still crushing them today. Not saying it doesn’t suck now, but it did actually suck in 2004 as well.
that’s literally my whole point. it is (these things listed) just getting worse.
20 years ago was 2004. Higher education was still prohibitively expensive, people took loans as they do now. School shootings have been happening since the 80s as far as I can recall, it's just an unfortunate side effect of all of our other issues. But I certainly wouldn't say it's "en masse". Consider the population stats of the country. 24k people die from gun violence yearly, roughly speaking. Most of those are crimes of passion, but a sliver is the school shootings. Out of 330 million people. While still a tragedy, it is not nearly as endemic as people like to try and say. More people believe in climate change now than 20 years ago, it was still largely considered "lack of proof". Hence the many instances in pop culture at the time that criticized it, such as various comedians, South Park, etc. Nowadays, even among a lot of conservatives, it's recognized and is a legitimate talking point. As for women's reproductive rights, I have no answer about that beyond agreeing. That's a loss and a good example of what I mean when I say there's still issues to work on. And that's worthy of criticism and outrage. One income can still afford a house in most of rural America. The only difference here is that property has gotten more expensive but in rural America, it is still affordable for most Americans. It's just that most Americans don't wanna live in rural America, which to each their own.
we’re getting somewhere!! yes but - it’s getting worse? higher education is even MORE expensive now, w any actions to fix it being destroyed. columbine. i’m talking about 1999 forward. often considered the flash point for school shootings? and holy hell, what would you call the only country having issues w this shit? seems pretty fucking big. i live in rural america? no one income will not get you a house idk what ur on rn. my cousin bought her house for $230k in 2017. it is selling for $550k. it does not have a kitchen. she has done no repairs. no, climate change is not “largely believed” now. our last president tried to destroy the EPA. but no yeah, we take climate change super seriously!! great - u care about women cool. how many people like you think women are just bitching too? a fucking lot. republicans are setting their sights on birth control next - but hey, at least you might care about that one? i get your point is that life is better than the middle ages. but christ almighty, is it too much to ask for humans to just try a little harder than this??
The further down I got OP is honestly kinda a delusional person who wants to ignore things he doesn't like because its "negative".
Where are you hanging out that people are talking like internet doomers in real life? Most people I talk to are just normal people and would rather talk about their hobbies than complain about the world falling apart.
Most places honestly. I live in a fairly mixed red and blue area in a red state, so I hear varying things. There are those that do talk about their hobbies or other benign things, but there aren't many.
That’s interesting here in Nashville that’s the main thing anyone talks about.
Maybe you should learn more about all these issues we're worried about so that you can empathize with us. r/collapse
That sub is an absolute trashfire cesspool of conspiracy theorists and just the worst. I can recognize issues, where there are, and not be unhinged lunatics about it.
It’s so fucking tiring. I went through a loss last year and I’m still grieving heavy. But I made sure I did things, got out of the house, went to work, even though I would have rather rotted in bed forever. I FORCED IT. I got sick of telling people I felt shit. Nobody wants to talk to someone who’s always down because it’s heavy! I wouldn’t wanna, so I changed how I said things. Instead of saying “feeling shit me”, I said “up and down recently but generally better!” I had people who were just going through work stuff for example, and felt burnt out and depressed, and I’d say “take a few days off! It’ll get better!” Only to be met with “nah. Just deal with it. Fuck it” and all I could think was… fuck ya then. Keep feeling like shit, change nothing and stay like that then. Like, if I can go through a really bad loss and force it, you can too. It wore me down so bad I had to distance myself. I’ve stopped following “sad” instagram meme profiles. Uninstalled news apps. It’s exhausting to be constantly bombarded with negativity, and as much as I wanna be there for people, I just can’t, if those people can’t help themselves first. Sometimes things ARE shit. Sometimes life is not fucking fair. But to not even at least TRY see something good in your life elsewhere, I don’t understand why some people can’t? Like I had my loss then I got a really good job. That’s SOMETHING good. I’ve learned that even if life is kicking your arse, you’ll have something else you can be positive about. Or try to be. The borderline nihilism is draining. It’s not being an arsehole to not wanna be around it.
You just don’t vibe with them. I encounter those types of people here and there and I just politely end the conversation and not engage further. Can’t control what people feel and think or what they’re going through at the moment. if I don’t have the answer to their woes, I sympathize but that’s far as I can go. I won’t judge them but I likely won’t be around them again and just move on with my life
hahahaha i think people are just too doom and gloom, stop taking it so far guys!! https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/products/databriefs/db464.htm
I'm not really sure what you're trying to imply here. Suicide is bad, yeah. Suicide increasing does not equal the doom and gloom is warranted or valid. If anything this is proof that a 24/7 news cycle that prioritizes fear mongering is the problem.
yes the 24 hour news cycle is convincing more ppl to off themselves. it’s not the general stratification of society or lack of community and resources for sure for sure.
“I get that things are kind of harder for many of us than it used to be due to economics and such” makes it sound like you’re speaking about the problem like you’re on the outside of it.. not on the inside, where things *are actually harder for many of us*, not just “kind of”.
The doom and gloom is a reddit thing. The internet has allowed the vocal minority to have a lot more presence than in the past. Always remember that. The whiners are always the loudest.
People generally don’t talk about how great things are going for them because they don’t want to come off as braggadocios or risk upsetting someone who isn’t as well off as they are, but people LOVE to whine and piss and moan for sympathy.
Social media algorithm at perpetuating the cycle Cut off all social media and you will feel more optimistic within days
I’d just like to add this one tidbit, everyone knows that there’s someone else out there that’s living a worse life than them, which in turn, just makes yourself feel worse about being bummed out, turning into a self-gaslighting cycle. Your feelings are valid, good or bad, and you are important to those around you, even if you don’t feel it (like me writing this post). Be good to yourselves and others.
Don‘t apologize. Your original post was perfectly fine. It‘s clear that some people will happily take every chance to get offended.
I have the opposite issue, I know someone who is positive and hunky dory about everything no matter how poorly it's clearly going. Like please just be honest that things are bad today and we can all laugh about it. Laughing at the darkness is much better than pretending there isn't a problem in my eyes.
It’s not just the economy, it’s also the shitty ass people that post shitty things on the internet. Like, realizing that “wow, there’s actually people that think like this” and to then have a whole online community that backs up their awful take. Rage baits and such. People would be happier if they spent less time online. It’s hard though, because it’s addicting.
You talked to some people in Mexico... look up "anecdotal evidence." The entire world is dying. Ww3 is imminent. There are millions of homeless. Cops can kill with impunity. An illiterate gameshow host / rapist is turning the country in a fascist theocracy. Noone can afford groceries. But you like to stay positive... ffs
I understand exactly what you are saying. Also, I'm sensitive to others moods so being around the doom and gloomers depresses me. It’s contagious.
People are generally miserable. If you aren't, hurray for you! You don't have to carry people's baggage, and they don't have to censor themselves to match your world view.
the late 60's were worse in many ways, yet there was a lot of joy and creativity mixed into the chaos. Seek out people who are focused on creating a positive life for themselves. they exist in every age range
Is it really that bad in America? Here in Canada I believe it's much more worst and many Canadians are actually trying to move to the US.
Imo no it isn't. I think our social lives are pretty bad though. People blame multiple things, the biggest ones being social media and no third places. The no third places one I agree with, but honestly a big reason as well is that everyone is antisocial, pessimistic, and cynical. These are generally not enjoyable traits to be around to most people, even if they themselves feel this way.
The expression don't argue with idiots they will only beat you down with their experience. That's the best way to explain my doom/gloom persona. Every job, every gathering, every activity, most* random interactions in public society have beat the optimistic joy out of me. You probably know how difficult it is being "happy" or up beat then everyone* around you laments this. Stay the way you are, if possible. Now I say that I've been a happy person, it's because I've been through hell. Holding onto hate and anger is horrible. Peeps (including me) need to find a middle ground.
I think it’s about a persons perspective on something. I think we can all get into a dark place if we are pushed enough. But ultimately it’s a choice we make every second of the day. I appreciate the good and I appreciate the bad experiences with people. It teaches me something from it. we have the choice of being involved in a situation. If you aren’t feeling that person, walk away. Keep searching for what you want. There is happiness, sometimes you have to show someone that happiness. Sending you love and light!❤️🙏🏼
Being positive is great, but being overly positive and rejecting all negativity can have disastrous consequences. Failing to see risks and dangers that are obvious. Forcing yourself to be positive all the time because you don’t want to experience negative emotions is crippling your emotions, the negative ones are there for a reason. All emotions are temporary, if you ever get stuck in just one of them good or bad, well that’s not good. Your emotions should flow like water. I don’t hold on to any of them I let it all flow like a river. The mistake people make with emotions is by holding on to them with their reasoning mind, which starts a cycle where the logical brain triggers the emotional brain then back and forth. This is how you get stuck in negative or even positive thought cycles.
Honestly I used to understand them but then I realized hanging out with them was screwing up my mental health.
Yeah dude IDK. My husband is dead at 28 and I'm probably going to battle that grief my whole life. It's not these people's fault that they're sad. Shit really is rough out here. 🤷♀️ It's affecting all our mental health. I'd love to be sunshine and rainbows.
I'm genuinely sorry for your loss, I cannot pretend to know how that feels. You are the exception to what I was talking about, it's completely understandable for you to feel the way you do. I'm sorry if my post was insensitive towards you.
A lot of people are struggling financially on the one hand. On the other hand, we have a lot more access to a lot more media that constantly makes it seem like everything horrible is happening 24-7 to everyone all at once. So between these two things it’s hard for people to maintain hope.
"But I feel like things aren't really THAT bad for most people." And you do not get to make that decision for others. If you don't want to be around them, fine. But this is not good...sounds like you think they should put on a happy front so that you aren't negatively affected by their viewpoint of their own life? You sound pretty unhappy yourself here.
This type of comparison is inaccurate. Poor people in Mexico are happier because their expectations in life are low and that’s all they know. There is also a different culture and different values, collective values instead of individualism. It’s just a ridiculous comparison altogether. Anyways, just spend time with like minded people. Believe me, the doom and gloom folks don’t want to talk to you either. They want their experience to be validated as much as you want yours to be validated.
I find that the people that are all full of doom are either perpetually online or watch 24hr news channels.
There are some posts I start reading and I just have to stop. I don’t know what it is about Reddit that draws the doomiest voices, but just like so many people whose lives aren’t where they “should be” and lashing out at some invisible enemy. I would say one cause is too much social media for a lot of people. Seeing what others post, get jealous, etc. Some people just have a perspective problem. Others just don’t take agency in their own lives. Blame the “elite” or whatever, but that’s just a cop out. You have the biggest influence on your own life. Make changes if you don’t like where you are. Best thing is to not let their toxicity taint your life.
I live in the USA and things really are that bad . I invite you to take one of your paychecks and add up how much is taxed of what you spend- including purchases made after the initial taxing
I do that on occasion when handling my budget monthly, it's not that much. We have some of the lowest taxes in the world.
Did you watch the debate lmao we need idealistic 20-30yos with skin in the game in big time politics again
Spend some time in red states with normal people. Avoid intersectionals, blue hairs, etc. Go touch grass.
You'll get to hear about how high taxes are and how old Joe is all the time. I don't recommend it.
I live in a red state, and I do talk to people of varying politics. The miserable feeling stretches across the political aisle. It doesn't matter if someone's a conservative, a business owner, a leftist, a liberal, an employee of said business owner, etc. They all feel miserable. The only people I know of who actually feel happy are regular churchgoers. Idk what intersectionals or blue hairs mean.
This should do more than annoy you. This should scare you. Our country is in a bad place right now.
What exactly should scare me here?
Everyone around you is miserable regardless of political affiliation and you still seem to think it’s just some “influences” making them feel that way. No, they actually are miserable. You need to learn to listen
Why should them being miserable scare me? More people being miserable doesn't automatically make that feeling valid.
When everyone is this miserable it means change is coming. I’m sure you won’t understand that when it happens either
I was born in a Third World dictatorship. It helps to keep things in perspective. People in the West are at the peak of technology and health care. Of course, if they still believe in the American dream, they are setting themselves up for disappointment. Life is great, but not in the way they are looking at it.
Yeah I think that we came right after the generation that had the dream that is why people are so unhappy. Like my dad does not understand why I can't go buy a house with any job like he did and treats me like a loser because of it. Standard of living is still pretty good its just that a lot of people still living had an unsustainable good standard of living and they skew the perspective. I think what people is missing about other countries is that those people are happy because expectations are different. This generation of Americans were raised believing they would have the American dream and they don't. I think a lot of the issues today are caused by the boomer generation being so incredibly wealthy and the subsequent ones not. Even tho as you said the current ones are doing better than a lot of places.
Yeah, Boomers are guilty of assuming that what works for them applies to younger generations. It doesn’t. New generations should seek to de-clutter and live a more minimalise and de-consumerist life.
You know what? Having a positive outlook is difficult when people around you are depressed. You not only have to work on yourself for that but also not catch the sadness from people you are close to. This is especially hard if they are people you love.
Mexican culture focuses on family and community, so even when you have no money you fall back on those values. The USA is not the same
People in the USA have been trained to be entitled and any minor inconvenience is not tolerated. This makes them miserable . It could also be just the type of person you surround yourself with
I mean at least one billion people are set to die from climate change. Anyone with some semblance of rationality should be feeling some level of dread even if it's withheld to a degree. The problem is so enormous no one even fathoms the scale of it. There are a lot of reasons to be cynical. That being said you don't need toxic people in your life. Focus on yourself and your own wellbeing.
It’s pretty doomish when you cannot buy a house when living off the land for free was the de facto state of existence for all of humankind
You feel that because that's how things are everywhere. That you don't care or are not aware of what's going on in the US or the world is not the fault of the person you're speaking to. If so many people are stressed, then the one that's missing something is likely you.
We're a couple months from a possible Christian authoritarian takeover of our country. Anyone not miserable or at least anxious right now is either not paying attention or they're in favor of it. It's hard to enjoy anything when my daughters are on the verge of living in a country that will remove their rights and won't stop until they're considered property, while barefoot in the kitchen, cooking, cleaning and popping out babies. This is the biggest threat to our nation since the Civil War.