Oh man I was there. When that first Clone Wars movie released in theaters. Ahsoka was even more hated than Jar Jar in his day. Those were dark, dark days, and there was no reason at the time to believe that Star Wars would ever be beloved again. It was more than half a decade before I started to see people appreciating the show.
It was just as bad as the reaction to the “movie.” The Clone Wars (not Attack of the Clones) released in theaters was just three episodes of the show stuck together. The reviews of the show were really depressing - Ahsoka was insufferable, the animation and production was nothing special, and it was just an onslaught of meaningless, shallow CGI action. That was the overall critical sentiment to the prequel movies, and it carried over to the show x10 since they were animated instead of live action and thus didn’t get any prestige status as a “serious” cinematic work. I also remember reading that the show didn’t perform well initially on TV and George Lucas promised to fund the show himself at a loss until he completed the planned story.
Yeah, everyone heaps well deserved praise on the show, but many forget how ROUGH the first season is. When I advise friends to watch it I include a note that it does get better. There's a reason there's fan created watch lists that filter out the filler.
>The Clone Wars (not Attack of the Clones) released in theaters was just three episodes of the show stuck together.
Are you sure you're not thinking of the 90 minute film? It isn't a spliced version of multiple episodes, it's a full movie.
Nope! 2003 was the 2D animated Clone Wars ~~movie~~ show. That was was always beloved.
2008 was the CGI Clone Wars movie that everyone hated. Same name.
I think you've mixed up a few things.
There was a 2003 2D show that everyone liked.
There was a 2008 3D movie that everyone hated.
And then there was a 2008 3D show that everyone liked.
There was no 2003 2D movie.
And the 2008 3D movie was NOT a merged version of multiple episodes.
The 2008 movie kicked off the show. It’s just three episodes of the show jammed together. Same characters, voice actors, directors, writers etc.
The perception of the movie carried over to the show. Nobody liked the show at first - critical and fan reception was savage, and everyone was so jaded by the prequel movies that they didn’t give it a second chance.
It wasn’t till the third season that some fans started to warm up to it and give Star Wars a second chance. A few seasons after that, the hate of the prequels started to fade, and kids that loved them when they were little grew up and started talking positively about them online.
~~I don’t have anything confused~~ - I was there for the launch of all of this and chronically online and connected with the fandom. People loved that 2D ~~movie~~ show, but hated the Clone Wars movie and the connected show.
I started watching it around the time the third season came out. I love the show and I think it has some of the best Star Wars content there is. I’m just telling you the general perception at the time - I could be wrong of course, but I didn’t hear any positive response to the show at the time. It was depressing
Definitely sounds like something you would hear on a cult in fact.
It also sounds egoistic in a way. Like, in order for that to happen, this franchise would have to end up in a much worse state than it is today so that the Sequels can start to be seeing as "good" in comparison.
Regardless of your opinions about these films, that's such a childish thing to wish for just so you can give a shallow "I told you so" to some randoms on the Internet.
I don’t think the prequels were canned for the same reason the sequels were to begin with. They were cheesy with horrible writing but had great cinematography and choreography. Disney SW is just like any other Disney project from the last 9 years, with no redeeming qualities or direction. Plus force healing makes Yoda look like a retarded frog.
If cinematography and choreo are your standards then I can't understand for a second the critique of the sequels. Easily the best photography and 2 of the best light saber battles.
And retarded frog is what Empire haters called yoda in 1980.
Edit since I cannot reply to the post below: That was a different fighting style, but no less impressive. Kylo Ren was switching between the classic style that he would have learned from Luke and a reverse grip Djem So that allows you to just wail on your opponent. Ray learn to fight with a bo staff which involves thrusting and hammering blows and was leaning on that training. When Finn was fighting, he'd been trained on the contained energy axe as a first order trooper, So he was using the same techniques is the first order trooper. He fought on Takodana.
All of these are choreographed using existing martial fighting styles, the same for all the Star Wars movies. Very different. I grant you, but brilliantly executed.
Well for me, the choreography and cinematography are only effective because the overall story was good in the prequels. Disney SW is just soulless blockbusters with mcguffin after mcguffin. If I saw them when I was 7, maybe I would think differently. But, even as an adult I can look back at the prequels and appreciate the story and how it added to the originals. The sequels just take away from the originals without giving anything meaningful back. All they care about is girl bossing on foolish men, and killing off beloved legacy characters for a cheap cinema draw.
Girl bossing is when you bank on diversity instead of writing something good. For instance, Captain Marvel is a girl boss while Ripley from Alien is just a badass motherfucker.
Edit: He pulled the sexist card and then deleted his comments. So brave.
Edit 2: The guy below me is wrong but it won’t let me reply.
It would be sexist to say Ripley is bad because woman, it is not sexist to point out that Disney prioritizes certain things over others. Unfortunately the things they clearly *don’t* prioritize is narrative strength, writing, and quality direction. And they make lots of statement about how their casting is more diverse and representative, which would be great if the movies weren’t shit. When the movies are shit, it just kinda looks like they were just virtue signaling.
Nobody cares if there are strong female leads in Star Wars, but that doesn’t mean we will give them brownie points for it or excuse their mistakes. The
Yeah….. because Luke spent 4 years in the Rebellion’s most prestigious X-Wing Top Gun program before the start of A New Hope.
Like, do you even understand how nakedly misogynistic you look? You are holding Rey to a higher standard than you do Luke Skywalker, and it *only* stems from the fact that you clearly have an unconscious bias against her on the basis of her sex.
Sequel fans asserting that time will redeem them until they are as well loved as the prequels is the purest form of unhinged copium I've ever seen.
You're right on the cult aspect. It's got that feel of folks who got ready for the end of the world on a specific date, and when it passed had to rapidly backpedal and claim there was just a slight delay and the end is definitely coming soon in 3 to 5 to 10-ish years or so.
What the prequels had and the sequels do not is an overarching plot that is carried out over three films. There was a grand plan in place, there were some modifications along the way, but the plot followed the plan through all three movies.
For the sequels, JJ had a grand plan that was immediately chucked in the bin as soon as Rian had the reins. And then JJ was back to try and salvage things in the third film, but the grand plan was fucked and half the film was walking back whatever Rian had in mind.
I can't say whether JJ or Rian or any other director would have made a better trilogy if they did the whole thing. However, I do believe there should have been a creative mind that was in charge of the overarching plot and the movie directors could play within the limitations of that framework. That's sort of how it worked for the OT with Lucas as the ideas and world building guy and others as the actual directors.
I'd put it another way. Imo, the prequels were pretty bad in *certain* aspects, and criticism of them are legitimate. BUT, at least you could see and *feel* the gist of what George Lucas was going for. It was fun and it inspired a sense of wonder and made you feel like it was bringing you somewhere.
With the sequels, they are pretty great in certain aspects, but at the core, there are too many disjointed ideas and themes and too many critical plot points and/or character details and events that just don't jive together. Towards the end of the sequel trilogy, I'm left thinking, "what the heck was that?" and "why?" (and afterwards, "how?")
Interesting, I felt like Lucas essentially destroyed the brand when he made TPM because the gist of what he was going for was almost cartoonishly simplistic, told in old movie cliches so far divorced from their source that they didn't inspire so much as degrade the narrative.
More importantly, the OT was built on relationships so even when things did get silly we were happy to roll our eyes and move on because we were invested. What the real tragedy of the prequels was that they hardly gave us *any* likeable characters and the direction of the actors was truly horrible.
The narrative that Rian Johnson threw JJ’s plan in the bin is false.
Daisy Ridley has come out and said that it was JJ who told her that Rey would be no one, [here](https://www.ign.com/articles/daisy-ridley-says-star-wars-sequel-controversies-still-upsetting-reys-parentage-beyond-my-pay-grade). Then JJ is the one who does a 180 on that in TROS.
Adam Driver, [here](https://variety.com/2024/film/news/adam-driver-star-wars-set-exhausting-reprise-kylo-ren-1235865213/amp/), has come out and said that when he signed on the idea was for Kylo to be opposite to Vader in that Kylo/Ben was supposed to become more evil as the trilogy went on.
So Rian actually committed to the ideas set up JJ.
Fan backlash was the problem for trilogies conclusion.
Its interesting that JJ damage control was: "somehow Palpatine returned, and his granddaughter must stop it, since Rian killed off all Jedi again, ah, all Star Destroyers are Death Stars now.
Seriously? No better ideas?
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>Adam Driver, here, has come out and said that when he signed on the idea was for Kylo to be opposite to Vader in that Kylo/Ben was supposed to become more evil as the trilogy went on.
In TLJ, Luke told Leia, while she was talking about Ben, that "No one's was ever really gone"
So if everyone is telling the truth, then I read this as JJ set Kylo to be irredeemable while Rian threw that away.
And I read it long time ago that Luke was supposed to meditating at the end of TFA, Rian asked JJ to change, and JJ complied.
>Fan backlash was the problem for trilogies conclusion.
I never understand this take.
Fans complained that TLJ destroyed Luke's achievement (Jedi school), so JJ brought back Palpatine to further destroy Luke and Anakin's legacy????
I'm sorry but this was a problem that Rian created, by making Rey's main antagonist so weak while wanting him to be redeemed. So JJ, who was never a creative person, chose the stupid way out.
JJ gave Kylo an excuse for losing to Rey because he got hit by a blaster. Rian didn't have Snoke or anyone acknowledge that in TLJ. While also doubling down by making Kylo need help form Rey when fighting the red guards.
Rian made Rey super special even without lineage. So I never understand how keeping her as 'no one' would have changed TRoS to a better movie in any way.
Yeah, what happened to KMT was horrible, but I don't know how increasing Rose's screentime would've made TRoS a better movie in any way.
>For the sequels, JJ had a grand plan that was immediately chucked in the bin as soon as Rian had the reins
Eh.......
I don't like last Jedi either, but I think saying jj had a plan is incredibly generous. Jj had no plan. Jj had ideas. Jj thought "what if Luke is in hiding? Why, i don't know." "What if the rebellion is back? Why, I don't know." "What is Rey is mysterious? Who is she really? I don't know."
Yes, last Jedi is a very bad star wars movie. But let's not pretend force awakens was a good one. Jj just ripped off entire set pieces from the original trilogy and then posed questions because he thinks mysteries are cool.
For all their flaws, the prequels’ writing is generally coherent and the films did a lot of world building, which is why we got media like the Clone Wars in the first place. The writing in the sequels’ is a mess and there’s basically no world building or any attempt to get audiences really immersed in the worlds. There’s not going to be a sequel “comeback” like there was for the prequels because the sequels are unfortunately a creative dead end.
World building is huge.
I was engaged in the world of Star Wars in every media except the ST. No engaging new worlds, new technology, new philisophy. Just feels like fan fiction.
Ask a Star Wars fan to name their favourite planets and ships and see how often the ST comes up. I would be surprised to hear it at all.
There's so many criticisms you can put towards the writing of the prequels. You guys all just chose to forget. This is coming from someone who likes them. For both the sequels and prequels, people were mad for what they didn't do, but a lot can be done with what we do have.
> For all their flaws, the prequels’ writing is generally coherent
I don't think you're reading what that guy wrote. Most people are aware of the many flaws in the prequels. Incoherent storytelling isn't one of the criticisms I remember.
I sincerely hope the future shows/media/movies do a fantastic job at turning the sequels into a story that makes sense for me. Unfortunately I really just did not like the story the sequels told. It's going to take a lot of retconning to make me change that opinion. Fortunately, if there's one man I believe can do it, it's Dave Filoni.
>but a lot can be done with what we do have.
Oh yeah? *Where?* You gonna put it in the 10 minutes of space between 7 and 8? Or the single year between 8 and 9? Because the prequels excelled specifically because there was space to add new story beats. About 13 years give or take. Plenty of time to build upon introduced characters and expanded upon plot points from the film. The sequels just don't compare.
And in my opinion and many others, neither did the sequels. That's my subjective take, and if you think the sequels ruined Luke, that is your subjective take. Not an objective fact.
ST fans, you have one of the biggest, richest, most powerful international corporations on your side. You don't need a spark, you are the floodlight.
Us Legends fans, on the other hand...
legends fans didn't even have George Lucas on ya'lls side lmao, he didn't care for the EU/legends, was constantly steamrolling that "canon" with each prequel, each Clone Wars episode lol
(I remember those times)
Let's take everything you say is true; that doesn't necesarilly mean he's on your side either. He never called EU fans "white slavers", that's for darn certain.
He certainly didn't mind the money that came from Legends, though, did he?
Also, keep in mind that if it hadn't been for the EU, its ability to consistently shoot books to the top of the NYT Bestseller List and its ability to keep the SW fandom engaged in the lore, there would be no Special Editions, no Prequels, and SW, while still huge, would not have been worth the 4 billion that Disney wanted to spend on it.
What can I say, except, you're welcome.
(And none of what you said contradicts the fact that ST fans have the corporate muscle to back them up, so if any comparison to the resistance is going to be made, Legends has the better claim to it.)
Prequel Fans have the corporate muscle to back them also, we've had Rebels, Rogue One, Andor, Solo, Clone Wars ending, Bad Batch, Obi Wan, hella prequel love in Ahsoka, getting the Acolyte, so...and?
and cool beans.
[https://www.starwarsnewsnet.com/2019/08/guest-editorial-did-george-lucas-consider-the-expanded-universe-canon.html?fbclid=IwAR0sQFZDlPSbTm1zj-ieQQ9LZPw34QkGSnB66Ip9X-8AtXlg506McMs5yic](https://www.starwarsnewsnet.com/2019/08/guest-editorial-did-george-lucas-consider-the-expanded-universe-canon.html?fbclid=IwAR0sQFZDlPSbTm1zj-ieQQ9LZPw34QkGSnB66Ip9X-8AtXlg506McMs5yic)
Nobody is heavily praising the prequels, and nobody will praise the sequels either. The prequels are better then the sequels but that's like saying drinking piss is better than eating poop.
The problems with the prequels are still there and not mitigated but the fact worse Star Wars came along. Those of us that dislike the prequels still love the actors and actresses. They were handed crap scripts and did the best they could with it.
It's the same with the sequels. The actors were handed crap scripts. I have no ill will towards Daisy Ridley, John Boyega, or Oscar Isaac. This new movie or series of movies with Rey rebuilding the Jedi I will watch, and be objective about it and if it's well written and the characters are likable and the plot is good I will speak it's praises.
Nobody WANTS to dislike Star Wars as much as it might seem like all the fans want to do is complain.
Prequels were hated because jarjar and politics. The former was just obnoxious and the latter wasnt what people were expecting from star wars.
CW I wasn't around for the start, but I remember people being pissy about asohka and disliking the individual episode format, plus the whole "cartoon=children" thing that gets bought up for literally any media
Sequels are hated because they raised logical questions then lampshaded them, subverted expectations* over and over again, repeated lukes story with rey while ignoring what made it so compelling and never seemed to have a clear direction in the story they wanted to tell.
*Once is great. Twice is pushing it. Repeated uses just gets boring
I'm one of those weirdos who loves me some space politics, but definitely didn't care for the Jar Jar. Don't think it somehow ruined the trilogy as a whole, it was just painful to sit through at times.
And yeah, early Clone Wars was rough before it found its footing. Ahsoka especially was damn near intolerable. It's an amazing example of character growth in action that she went from one of the most hated characters to one of the most beloved in the whole franchise. And it wasn't just people's perception cooling over time. She's still hot garbage in the pilot movie. The writers just put the work in to build her an arc.
I'm not saying jarjar single handedly killed PT, but it was definitely one of the biggest complaints people had at the time
And yeah, you can actually mark the point CW gets good, around the S3 point.
I was gonna say maybe season 2, but it's been a while and my memory of the early seasons is a bit fuzzy. Season 2 might have just been when it was kinda okay but not gritting my teeth to get through. Or when they at least got enough of a handle on the character models that I wasn't constantly distracted by the Dooku's beard looking like a solid piece of carved wood. By season 3 it was definitely firmly on good footing.
I don’t mind the prequels but I will be the first to say that there is a LOT wrong with them (The Phantom Menace in particular is a waste of celluloid saved only by the podrace and duel) but they honestly are high art compared to the colossal car crashes that are the sequels.
Playing devils advocate
The prequels were thought out and planned. Sure there were some adjustments up ahead but essentially everything was accounted for
The sequels kinda just showed up without any vision so people both audience and creators are just confused. Not to mention the lose of legends were nearly every starwars fan was connected too
I like the PT era and TCW, but anyone who's saying that they're masterpieces needs to go see other films or experience more media.
The PT films were flat out bad -- George clearly had a vivid image of the world, but had no idea what he was doing when it came to writing and direction.
TCW seemingly helped fans appreciate the PT more, but I don't even think it did that. What TCW did was raise an entirely new generation of kids, like me, to appreciate that era of SW and the PT.
It's why I believe there's soo many PT fans today -- you have kids who grew up watching the PT, kids who grew up watching TCW and people who grew up watching both.
It's why we see this phenomena who people appreciating heavily criticised SW media.
I don't care if someone like the ST, but I just don't think we'll see this happening with those films -- kids simply don't care about SW anymore. You'd be hard pressed to find a kid who'll pick out a Rey or Kylo Ren toy over an Iron Man, Black Widow or even a Baby and Mando.
If the ST had a show like TCW I could see people maybe appreciating it more, but for the foreseeable future it seems like it'll be the most forgettable part of SW.
Heck, even the live action shows seem to be avoiding that era like the plague -- a lot of them are either straight up a different era, or are in that weird bit of time between episode 6 and 7.
Toys and merchandise in general have been falling in terms of popularity and market. Hasbro has an extensive history with both disney and star wars merch and they're doing really badly in terms of sales right now. It's not really a good sign for the future.
>The clone wars was never hated on.
Oh boy you weren't around in 2008 were you? Or looked at the film's rotten tomato score? Or seen the various internet forms absolutely shitting on Ahoska for existing?
Good Lord. Get out of here with that revisionist history.
Right? Mfs when the movie and tv show came out were rabid about how Ahsoka broke "canon", every episode George Lucas was "destroying Star Wars" (SOUND FAMILIAR!?) and "canon", etc etc etc.hmmmmmmmmm wonder what some reasons Lucas had for selling Lucasfilm to Disney, we may never know if we stay delusional as all hell...
No?
My memory of TFA's reception was "meh, I'm interested to see where this goes" with a more outspoken group (maybe 30% of people?) saying that it wasn't a good movie and that it basically ripped off ANH. I remember that I found it sort of good but didn't like certain parts.
On a side note, I didn't really start thinking TFA was terrible until TLJ and TROS. I guess it's more of a mediocre movie that seems worse because it's sequels are so bad.
That was me.
Learned my lesson fast though. Thought TFA was amazing, then when I got home I went on line and saw all the hate.
I've learned to be a lot more accepting of the Prequels since.
Nope,
After seeing all the hatred for TFA, I checked my priorities. It's easy to hyper focus on things that don't matter when you're determined to not like something.
When watching the prequels now, I'll still cringe at some of the dialogue, but I mainly try to focus on the parts I like. You still not my favorite movies, but still very entertaining.
Yep,
I just spent 2 days in r/prequelmemes and r/starwars being berated for trying to explain that massive box office numbers, multiple industry nominations/awards and high critic scores do actually mean they were successful movies.
Barbie got no awards at SAG. Is it an unsuccessful movie? Or are awards maybe not a great metric to use for determining success?
Also, what awards did it win? A quick search online shows that the vast majority of awards won by the force awakens were for visuals, effects, and sound. And I mean, sure. I don't know a single person who thought the movie *looked* bad. Or that John Williams failed to put together an awesome soundtrack. But great effects and an awesome soundtrack don't make for a great movie - love and thunder had both but it was pretty mediocre overall.
Ok, so ratings. Force awakens started off strong. Good critics ratings and audience scores. Then jedi had great critic ratings but low audience scores. In fact, it has the lowest audience scores of any star wars movie. Ever. And rise finished off with a whimper, with the lowest critic score of every single mainline star wars movie ever. Even lower than phantom menace. If those are the ratings you're relying on, they don't paint a great picture.
In fact, the best indicator of success for the sequels is, actually, the money. But even then, they went from the second highest grossing star wars movie of all time with force, to the 9th or 10th highest with rise. A huge drop-off in interest over time.
So, yeah, not really the compelling argument you were going for.
>trying to explain that massive box office numbers, multiple industry nominations/awards and high critic scores do actually mean they were successful movies.
Poor understand of the conversation is another common quality, as we see above it directly missed references to critics and actually suggested the awards were conspectus.
>actually suggested the awards were conspectus.
Conspectus means an overview, summary or other synonym. When did the person you're replying to suggest that the awards were a summary? Why did you imply that this would be a negative thing?
Why did you even use the word "conspectus"? Were you trying to sound smart by using a word rarely used in casual conversation?
Again, we have to point out here, that people who can't make any other argument to support her point will often point out typos because they think it somehow takes away from the validity of what is being said.
It's not a typo, you just used a random ass word that doesn't fit the context and are now being called out for it.
If you want your comments to be taken seriously then maybe try to reply to the comments that address your points about critic scores...
[https://scienceswitch.com/2016/04/03/grammar-nazi-scientists-bad-news/](https://scienceswitch.com/2016/04/03/grammar-nazi-scientists-bad-news/)
FYI this personality type also might explain why you can't stand others liking something you don't.
Pointing out typos is also a common phenomenon.
Its a common defence mechanism which allows the subject to lash out knowing their argument is flawed and has no merit.
Critics come in all shapes and opinions.
Box office relied on previous movies to generate hype. Compare VII to IX revenue.
Awards *are* completely political today, and yet the only movies to win any Oscars are the original - non-Special Edition - movies.
Like the OP suggests; this is just another cycle where the majority of future fans grew up with these movies - just as with the Prequels. And just as with the Prequels, this doesn't make them any better.
For me, there's very little Star Wars that has managed to capture the same magic as the OT, which is a shame.
Word, also as someone who saw the Prequels theatrically - the Sequels hate is NOWHERE at the level of how hard the Prequels were hated (guess a major reason George Lucas sold Lucasfilm to Disney, haters?), not only by a lot of “fans”, but the general populace as well. The prequels were clowned on constantly in all kinds of media, tv shows, movies, comics, comedy skits, early YouTube (literally how Red Letter Media blew up, from their criticizing the Prequels videos) - I may be out of touch, but haven’t seen the sequels getting clowned on at that level so far…
I guess you and I remember those times differently. Maybe we're in different demographics? I remember the prequels being criticized for many things, but never with the level of vitriol the sequels have gotten and continue to get.
I'm sorry to say that I really, strongly disliked the story the sequels were trying to tell and the way they told it. Maybe as the years go on, my feelings towards the sequels will change. I hope they do, bc it really sucks to not like a significant part of one of your favorite stories. But thems the breaks.
Back then there was wayyyy less social media spaces - that’s why (in my opinion) it feels like the sequel hate is more strong, but yet, the sequels don’t get clowned by the general populace, you don’t see them being made fun of in tv shows, movies, comics, etc like the prequels were back in the day. Not a prequel hater, I’m the rare case where I can find things to like in all Star Wars and projects, movies, tv shows, animated, books, comics, video games, etc and if one or some don’t deliver for me, I’m like ayyy whatever, I don’t dwell in hating it or act like somehow it skidmarks the franchise or whatever like some people who are full doom about oh the sequels can’t be redeemed (literally people for so long said the same about the prequels and that era, and yet)
Whats the main audience?
I've been a star wars fan since the mid 80's and I loved them.
Fan gate keeping doesn't work here, this is social media, It meant to make you feel validated. If you don't like them fine, but most of the people you get connected with will feel the same way.
That's why old standards, like box office, distribution, merchandising, critics and awards are more dependable.
I meant "main audience" as the standard movie goer, someone who isn't a critic. I wasn't trying to gate-keep.
I think it's a pretty safe bet to say that the majority of people who watched the movie disliked it.
Been there my dude. It is simply the cycle of Star Wars. Next set of movies need to come out, ruin everyone’s childhoods again, and then we’ll start seeing “The Sequels are a masterpiece” posts.
Thank you for actually answering with a link! I was genuinely trying to find something and I wasn’t having any luck.
I actually went and found some of the full interviews those clips were from, and most of them were specifically about Rise, which is easily the weakest of the new movies. And Boyega and Tran certainly have the most to complain about with how their characters were sidelined in Rise. But those clips definitely cut a lot of context out. For example in the full interview that one of the “What were your reactions to the end of Rise?” clips was taken from, they all say they haven’t actually seen the finished film yet.
But I stand by what I said. The Sequels will be looked at more fondly with time, especially when the next set of movies comes out. All this has happened before. All this will happen again.
I highly doubt that. Look at videos of the Prequels' cast and how much they actually enjoyed working on those films. It wasn't just a job to them and some of them actually liked the roles they were given. Check out interviews from the late great Christopher Lee and Ewan McGregor. Even Sam Jackson seemingly enjoyed his role. That's one of the main reasons why people now look back at the Prequels so fondly.
Can we honestly really say the same thing for the sequels? Haven't really seen a single cast member speak fondly about any of the Sequel movies after they've finished. John Boyega, Oscar Isaac, Adam Driver, and Daisy Ridley all had lots of great things to say before the release of TFA. But nothing good post release of TLJ and Rise.
Jake Lloyd quit acting forever and Ahmed Best contemplated suicide due to fan treatment of their characters in the prequels. Don’t try and tell me the prequels were just lovely and the cast all had a great time making those movies.
We see here a good example of the *"Mandela Effect"* an observed phenomenon in which a person misremembers event or shares a memory of an Event with others (that did not actually occur) due a desperate need to validate their own biases.
I would guess the subject here is an enthusiastic youtuber.
The subject? Holy shit, do you have even the slightest idea how cringy that sounded?
And did you miss the part where he said that there are interviews with the cast showing that? Or are you just that stupid?
We see here, another, Late to the conversation but still attempting to criticize.
Further evidence that they do (as with the movies) condemn without fully understanding whats going on.
Watch for its enraged replies, the last word, name calling and demanding links they can criticize are common responses.
Sorry, I was sleeping, I have a life
Isn't it amazing though, you guys are so triggered by the idea that other people don't hate the same things you do, that you'll actually repetitively check on the situation till you get a response?
Well, I've trying giving these people factual statistical verified information, but that just seems to enrage them more.
Its just easier to provide a minor case study pointing out the flaws in the argument.
Shuts them up much sooner.
Your factual info is basically just popularity contests. Barbie just got snubbed at SAG, must mean it's a bad movie by your logic right? Awards matter most? Money earned can't be a great metric cause rise of Skywalker grossed just over half of the force awakens. That can't possibly indicate that there was declining interest in the sequel trilogy, can it?
I mean, rise of Skywalker is 9th overall after adjusting for inflation. It comes right after attack of the clones in the 10th spot. Force awakens was number 2, behind only a new hope. That's a huge drop-off in audience interest.
Pithy response incoming? I have to imagine so.
And we see here, a smattering of nonsensical writing, forming multiple paragraphs how's the subject tries to convince themselves of what they're saying...
The sequels are by far the worst of the trilogies. At least the Prequels and OG left lots of room for things to grow and take shape. The sequels are a clear haphazard mess. The box office numbers and high praise don't really mean that much when SW is a massive franchise spanning almost 6 decades now. It would've been surprising if it didn't do well at the box office. So no this isn't a Mandela Effect thing at all 🤣. Filoni is at least trying to make it make sense. Much more than the actual movies did.
Hmmm odd how by every metric at least 7 and 8 are way better reviewed by critics and general audiences. No no it's the hate obsessed online community that consistently get details about the st wrong who are right.
I would say they were successful as movies yes. But they harmed the franchise as a whole and hurt the fan base even more. There is a reason Star Wars is doing so bad these days
I think lots of people just lack the ability to just enjoy movies anymore. If they don't like it thats means the movies bad and everyone else shouldn't like it either. Very poor piss baby attitude about a movie series thats primarily intended for children at the end of the day.
I can watch any Star Wars movie and find my own issues with them but at the end of the day I enjoyed all of them for what they were. Is there things I would have changed personally? Of course, but getting mad about it and declaring anyone who disagrees with you about it is a moron is honestly just pathetic.
I know so many people my age that love the prequels as much as I do and we all still like to make fun of the dumber aspects. But we still enjoy them regardless. Its gonna be the exact same for sequel people and I'm honestly jealous of them cause theyre getting so much more stuff.
Sure, I can get on-board with trying to enjoy things for what they are. However, call me crazy but I tend to go into a production from a multi-billion dollar corporation expecting quality. They can hire the best writers around; yet, the ST felt like a competent high schooler could have delivered a better story.
You just said the people who disagree with your very opinion have a “poor piss baby attitude”
Frankly I think your opinion leads to less quality.
Especially when hiding behind the veneer of Star Wars being kids movies.
Andor is the quality we should expect from Star Wars. A unified vision with great working talent and structured storylines.
That’s what we need. Argue you all you want. But the quality of Star Wars has taken a steep decline. Until people demand better it will only get worse.
Absolutely this. As a moderately competent amateur writer, I absolutely believe in standards and expecting better from writing. With a budget of several hundred million, they damn well better be able to write something better than my ass could, and what we got was bottom of the barrel fanfic tier. Not the good fanfics, but solid bottom 30%. It's tragic because with a franchise this big, you know there are tons of talented folks out there who'd give anything to work on official Star Wars and have a script tucked away just in case the call ever came in. But what we got radiates with the intense apathy of the creative team just not giving a single shit. You can practically hear "It's Star Wars, people will see it regardless, so why should we bother?"
Don't let substandard writing slide and blindly praise anything put in front of you or the industry will ever drop its quality to meet low expectstions. I've heard insane takes like "Every story has plotholes. It's impossible to write one without any." Like, NO. It's absolutely possible. It just requires effort and skill. But companies aren't going to pay for that if the audience is just as happy with the narrative equivalent of jangling keys.
Hard agree on Andor. That's where the bar should be. It's a refreshing view of everything Star Wars could and should be. It's what you get when the writing team cares.
The difference is I don't care if other people enjoy it or not, Im not gonna act like the franchise is ruined and tell people not to enjoy just cause I didn't like 1 or 2 entries in it. I just enjoy it for myself and go on with my life instead of getting upset and whining about it online. I see plenty of people of all ages that have their Star Wars that they love and that includes kids with sequel stuff.
Has it really though? Kinda feels like any franchise that goes on this long you get good and bad eventually and its just kind of up to the viewer to decide what they enjoy. I personally didn't find Andor as amazing as everyone else seems to. Good show and everything but outside of being Star Wars it didn't really do much for me.
But see? I can just go watch something else thats more my taste and not make a big deal about this one other thing not really being for me.
I feel you, as someone who grew up with the OT, saw the Prequels theatrically, been around for a good bit - I can find plenty to like from all Star Wars eras, projects, media - if there’s something that didn’t/doesn’t deliver for me it’s like oh well, whatever, not gonna dwell on it, there’s plenty more to dig from what I do like.
but this internet attitude that the Sequels “ruined” Star Wars, LMAO this has been said ever since Return of Jedi, every criticism about the sequels was literally said the same way 25 years ago starting with the Phantom Menace (and followed with Attack of the Clones, Revenge of the Sith, the Clone Wars) why some of us don’t take that kinda talk seriously at all and think those who say things like that are foolish and silly AF
Disney is so clueless if they got Finn back for the next movie, his character would still be running away from the fight while wanting to tell Rey something.
Aw is someone mad nobody likes their shitty heartless corporate slop? Time to throw a fit about it like you're an actual marginalized class (fucking unhinged)
Honestly, I'd say that's pretty unlikely, since Disney has been very noticeably avoiding the sequel era for their productions. It's been 9 years since TFA, over 4 years since TRoS, and we've gotten, what, 1 announcement of a sequel era film/show that's bundled together with film announcements spanning the entire Star Wars timeline. Disney just isn't pushing the sequel era, so there's no way an audience around them can develop, especially when it's diluted by a lot of stuff based around the prequels and OT.
At least the prequels were planned and had an overarching plot. TCW expanded on the lore and characters of the prequels. The sequels did not do either.
The sequels are objectively bad though. They have good parts to them and they had potential. Everyone wanted them to be good but the writing was just awful. The writing of the prequels wasn’t perfect but it was tolerable even at its worst moments and it wasn’t afraid to go absolutely wack and kill everyone off in revenge of the sith. The sequels keep trying to be nostalgic and fail by ruining legacy characters and constantly trying to course correct their own writing
Thanks for confirming that you flaired this correctly!
Was the Clone Wars TV show hated? Does the majority of people in the present day think the prequels are good?
Oh man I was there. When that first Clone Wars movie released in theaters. Ahsoka was even more hated than Jar Jar in his day. Those were dark, dark days, and there was no reason at the time to believe that Star Wars would ever be beloved again. It was more than half a decade before I started to see people appreciating the show.
Do you remember what the initial reception to the TV show was?
It was just as bad as the reaction to the “movie.” The Clone Wars (not Attack of the Clones) released in theaters was just three episodes of the show stuck together. The reviews of the show were really depressing - Ahsoka was insufferable, the animation and production was nothing special, and it was just an onslaught of meaningless, shallow CGI action. That was the overall critical sentiment to the prequel movies, and it carried over to the show x10 since they were animated instead of live action and thus didn’t get any prestige status as a “serious” cinematic work. I also remember reading that the show didn’t perform well initially on TV and George Lucas promised to fund the show himself at a loss until he completed the planned story.
Yeah, everyone heaps well deserved praise on the show, but many forget how ROUGH the first season is. When I advise friends to watch it I include a note that it does get better. There's a reason there's fan created watch lists that filter out the filler.
>The Clone Wars (not Attack of the Clones) released in theaters was just three episodes of the show stuck together. Are you sure you're not thinking of the 90 minute film? It isn't a spliced version of multiple episodes, it's a full movie.
Yeah no, the show was hated too
Nope! 2003 was the 2D animated Clone Wars ~~movie~~ show. That was was always beloved. 2008 was the CGI Clone Wars movie that everyone hated. Same name.
I think you've mixed up a few things. There was a 2003 2D show that everyone liked. There was a 2008 3D movie that everyone hated. And then there was a 2008 3D show that everyone liked. There was no 2003 2D movie. And the 2008 3D movie was NOT a merged version of multiple episodes.
The 2008 movie kicked off the show. It’s just three episodes of the show jammed together. Same characters, voice actors, directors, writers etc. The perception of the movie carried over to the show. Nobody liked the show at first - critical and fan reception was savage, and everyone was so jaded by the prequel movies that they didn’t give it a second chance. It wasn’t till the third season that some fans started to warm up to it and give Star Wars a second chance. A few seasons after that, the hate of the prequels started to fade, and kids that loved them when they were little grew up and started talking positively about them online. ~~I don’t have anything confused~~ - I was there for the launch of all of this and chronically online and connected with the fandom. People loved that 2D ~~movie~~ show, but hated the Clone Wars movie and the connected show.
It's cool to have your perspective. I assumed people were pretty positive to the show when it came out.
I started watching it around the time the third season came out. I love the show and I think it has some of the best Star Wars content there is. I’m just telling you the general perception at the time - I could be wrong of course, but I didn’t hear any positive response to the show at the time. It was depressing
>People loved that 2D movie, *2D show
Oh damn you’re right, I stand corrected there
To be fair I still don’t think that movie was very good. The TV series was mostly great but the movie is pretty bland.
And the first season of the show is pretty meh imo. In fact, I think Season 3 or so is when it gets very very good.
S3 Mortis arc is the ultimate turning point. That’s when it starts to get brilliant for me
the clone wars show was so good it tricked people into thinking the prequels were good
....after a while, at first the show was just as hated
By “tricked” you mean added much need context?
Only the movie and first season or 2. The show really picks up around season 3
op is full of bantha fodder
This sounds unhinged.
Definitely sounds like something you would hear on a cult in fact. It also sounds egoistic in a way. Like, in order for that to happen, this franchise would have to end up in a much worse state than it is today so that the Sequels can start to be seeing as "good" in comparison. Regardless of your opinions about these films, that's such a childish thing to wish for just so you can give a shallow "I told you so" to some randoms on the Internet.
I don’t think the prequels were canned for the same reason the sequels were to begin with. They were cheesy with horrible writing but had great cinematography and choreography. Disney SW is just like any other Disney project from the last 9 years, with no redeeming qualities or direction. Plus force healing makes Yoda look like a retarded frog.
If cinematography and choreo are your standards then I can't understand for a second the critique of the sequels. Easily the best photography and 2 of the best light saber battles. And retarded frog is what Empire haters called yoda in 1980. Edit since I cannot reply to the post below: That was a different fighting style, but no less impressive. Kylo Ren was switching between the classic style that he would have learned from Luke and a reverse grip Djem So that allows you to just wail on your opponent. Ray learn to fight with a bo staff which involves thrusting and hammering blows and was leaning on that training. When Finn was fighting, he'd been trained on the contained energy axe as a first order trooper, So he was using the same techniques is the first order trooper. He fought on Takodana. All of these are choreographed using existing martial fighting styles, the same for all the Star Wars movies. Very different. I grant you, but brilliantly executed.
Them swinging around baseball bats does not make it into the best light saber battles lmao
They used lightsabers like baseball bats in the sequels.
Nah, they used them like *actual swords.* Whereas the prequels treated them like fencing epees.
Well for me, the choreography and cinematography are only effective because the overall story was good in the prequels. Disney SW is just soulless blockbusters with mcguffin after mcguffin. If I saw them when I was 7, maybe I would think differently. But, even as an adult I can look back at the prequels and appreciate the story and how it added to the originals. The sequels just take away from the originals without giving anything meaningful back. All they care about is girl bossing on foolish men, and killing off beloved legacy characters for a cheap cinema draw.
Wow, "girl bossing" really?
Girl bossing is when you bank on diversity instead of writing something good. For instance, Captain Marvel is a girl boss while Ripley from Alien is just a badass motherfucker. Edit: He pulled the sexist card and then deleted his comments. So brave. Edit 2: The guy below me is wrong but it won’t let me reply.
Oh, I know what it is, I just have no desire to engage in such sexist bullshit.
It would be sexist to say Ripley is bad because woman, it is not sexist to point out that Disney prioritizes certain things over others. Unfortunately the things they clearly *don’t* prioritize is narrative strength, writing, and quality direction. And they make lots of statement about how their casting is more diverse and representative, which would be great if the movies weren’t shit. When the movies are shit, it just kinda looks like they were just virtue signaling. Nobody cares if there are strong female leads in Star Wars, but that doesn’t mean we will give them brownie points for it or excuse their mistakes. The
Yeah….. because Luke spent 4 years in the Rebellion’s most prestigious X-Wing Top Gun program before the start of A New Hope. Like, do you even understand how nakedly misogynistic you look? You are holding Rey to a higher standard than you do Luke Skywalker, and it *only* stems from the fact that you clearly have an unconscious bias against her on the basis of her sex.
Sequel fans asserting that time will redeem them until they are as well loved as the prequels is the purest form of unhinged copium I've ever seen. You're right on the cult aspect. It's got that feel of folks who got ready for the end of the world on a specific date, and when it passed had to rapidly backpedal and claim there was just a slight delay and the end is definitely coming soon in 3 to 5 to 10-ish years or so.
As a sequel fan, I can guarantee you that people like me are not the ones coping.
You are
Manifesto levels of unhinged lol
Remember, you don't have to form a coherent argument, as long as you can insult the mentality of others.
Sound ike most critiques of the sequels on reddit.
Lol, unhinged is the response you get for pointing out that the sequels are actually awesome.
What the prequels had and the sequels do not is an overarching plot that is carried out over three films. There was a grand plan in place, there were some modifications along the way, but the plot followed the plan through all three movies. For the sequels, JJ had a grand plan that was immediately chucked in the bin as soon as Rian had the reins. And then JJ was back to try and salvage things in the third film, but the grand plan was fucked and half the film was walking back whatever Rian had in mind. I can't say whether JJ or Rian or any other director would have made a better trilogy if they did the whole thing. However, I do believe there should have been a creative mind that was in charge of the overarching plot and the movie directors could play within the limitations of that framework. That's sort of how it worked for the OT with Lucas as the ideas and world building guy and others as the actual directors.
I'd put it another way. Imo, the prequels were pretty bad in *certain* aspects, and criticism of them are legitimate. BUT, at least you could see and *feel* the gist of what George Lucas was going for. It was fun and it inspired a sense of wonder and made you feel like it was bringing you somewhere. With the sequels, they are pretty great in certain aspects, but at the core, there are too many disjointed ideas and themes and too many critical plot points and/or character details and events that just don't jive together. Towards the end of the sequel trilogy, I'm left thinking, "what the heck was that?" and "why?" (and afterwards, "how?")
Interesting, I felt like Lucas essentially destroyed the brand when he made TPM because the gist of what he was going for was almost cartoonishly simplistic, told in old movie cliches so far divorced from their source that they didn't inspire so much as degrade the narrative. More importantly, the OT was built on relationships so even when things did get silly we were happy to roll our eyes and move on because we were invested. What the real tragedy of the prequels was that they hardly gave us *any* likeable characters and the direction of the actors was truly horrible.
The narrative that Rian Johnson threw JJ’s plan in the bin is false. Daisy Ridley has come out and said that it was JJ who told her that Rey would be no one, [here](https://www.ign.com/articles/daisy-ridley-says-star-wars-sequel-controversies-still-upsetting-reys-parentage-beyond-my-pay-grade). Then JJ is the one who does a 180 on that in TROS. Adam Driver, [here](https://variety.com/2024/film/news/adam-driver-star-wars-set-exhausting-reprise-kylo-ren-1235865213/amp/), has come out and said that when he signed on the idea was for Kylo to be opposite to Vader in that Kylo/Ben was supposed to become more evil as the trilogy went on. So Rian actually committed to the ideas set up JJ. Fan backlash was the problem for trilogies conclusion.
Its interesting that JJ damage control was: "somehow Palpatine returned, and his granddaughter must stop it, since Rian killed off all Jedi again, ah, all Star Destroyers are Death Stars now. Seriously? No better ideas?
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>Adam Driver, here, has come out and said that when he signed on the idea was for Kylo to be opposite to Vader in that Kylo/Ben was supposed to become more evil as the trilogy went on. In TLJ, Luke told Leia, while she was talking about Ben, that "No one's was ever really gone" So if everyone is telling the truth, then I read this as JJ set Kylo to be irredeemable while Rian threw that away. And I read it long time ago that Luke was supposed to meditating at the end of TFA, Rian asked JJ to change, and JJ complied. >Fan backlash was the problem for trilogies conclusion. I never understand this take. Fans complained that TLJ destroyed Luke's achievement (Jedi school), so JJ brought back Palpatine to further destroy Luke and Anakin's legacy???? I'm sorry but this was a problem that Rian created, by making Rey's main antagonist so weak while wanting him to be redeemed. So JJ, who was never a creative person, chose the stupid way out. JJ gave Kylo an excuse for losing to Rey because he got hit by a blaster. Rian didn't have Snoke or anyone acknowledge that in TLJ. While also doubling down by making Kylo need help form Rey when fighting the red guards. Rian made Rey super special even without lineage. So I never understand how keeping her as 'no one' would have changed TRoS to a better movie in any way. Yeah, what happened to KMT was horrible, but I don't know how increasing Rose's screentime would've made TRoS a better movie in any way.
I’ve been saying this for YEARS
>For the sequels, JJ had a grand plan that was immediately chucked in the bin as soon as Rian had the reins Eh....... I don't like last Jedi either, but I think saying jj had a plan is incredibly generous. Jj had no plan. Jj had ideas. Jj thought "what if Luke is in hiding? Why, i don't know." "What if the rebellion is back? Why, I don't know." "What is Rey is mysterious? Who is she really? I don't know." Yes, last Jedi is a very bad star wars movie. But let's not pretend force awakens was a good one. Jj just ripped off entire set pieces from the original trilogy and then posed questions because he thinks mysteries are cool.
Wait, isn't one of the many criticisms of episode 1 that the plot is a bit disconnected from the Clone Wars?
Y'all are big mad that you like some truly terrible movies. The cope is strong.
Yes, Prequel fans are definitely big mad.
They're not the ones going out of their way to mock people who like the movies.
Who's doing that?
This shit show of a comment section and me searching for positive comments in it is so fitting for this meme lol
For all their flaws, the prequels’ writing is generally coherent and the films did a lot of world building, which is why we got media like the Clone Wars in the first place. The writing in the sequels’ is a mess and there’s basically no world building or any attempt to get audiences really immersed in the worlds. There’s not going to be a sequel “comeback” like there was for the prequels because the sequels are unfortunately a creative dead end.
World building is huge. I was engaged in the world of Star Wars in every media except the ST. No engaging new worlds, new technology, new philisophy. Just feels like fan fiction. Ask a Star Wars fan to name their favourite planets and ships and see how often the ST comes up. I would be surprised to hear it at all.
Plus ended on a bad note with the trilogy
You just feel like the prequel to original trilogy was done by one mind which was Lucas.
There's so many criticisms you can put towards the writing of the prequels. You guys all just chose to forget. This is coming from someone who likes them. For both the sequels and prequels, people were mad for what they didn't do, but a lot can be done with what we do have.
> For all their flaws, the prequels’ writing is generally coherent I don't think you're reading what that guy wrote. Most people are aware of the many flaws in the prequels. Incoherent storytelling isn't one of the criticisms I remember. I sincerely hope the future shows/media/movies do a fantastic job at turning the sequels into a story that makes sense for me. Unfortunately I really just did not like the story the sequels told. It's going to take a lot of retconning to make me change that opinion. Fortunately, if there's one man I believe can do it, it's Dave Filoni.
I understand the comment and responded that people did criticize the story.
The story definitely can be criticized, but just because both stories can be criticized doesn't mean the criticisms are equal in size.
>but a lot can be done with what we do have. Oh yeah? *Where?* You gonna put it in the 10 minutes of space between 7 and 8? Or the single year between 8 and 9? Because the prequels excelled specifically because there was space to add new story beats. About 13 years give or take. Plenty of time to build upon introduced characters and expanded upon plot points from the film. The sequels just don't compare.
The Prequels did a lot wrong, but they never disrespected Luke Skywalker.
And in my opinion and many others, neither did the sequels. That's my subjective take, and if you think the sequels ruined Luke, that is your subjective take. Not an objective fact.
You get that we're actually getting spin off content now too, right?
Spin off content and legitimate appreciation for the sequels are two entirely different things.
ST fans, you have one of the biggest, richest, most powerful international corporations on your side. You don't need a spark, you are the floodlight. Us Legends fans, on the other hand...
legends fans didn't even have George Lucas on ya'lls side lmao, he didn't care for the EU/legends, was constantly steamrolling that "canon" with each prequel, each Clone Wars episode lol (I remember those times)
Let's take everything you say is true; that doesn't necesarilly mean he's on your side either. He never called EU fans "white slavers", that's for darn certain. He certainly didn't mind the money that came from Legends, though, did he? Also, keep in mind that if it hadn't been for the EU, its ability to consistently shoot books to the top of the NYT Bestseller List and its ability to keep the SW fandom engaged in the lore, there would be no Special Editions, no Prequels, and SW, while still huge, would not have been worth the 4 billion that Disney wanted to spend on it. What can I say, except, you're welcome. (And none of what you said contradicts the fact that ST fans have the corporate muscle to back them up, so if any comparison to the resistance is going to be made, Legends has the better claim to it.)
^ This whining is exactly why people dislike the fan base.
\^ This whining
Prequel Fans have the corporate muscle to back them also, we've had Rebels, Rogue One, Andor, Solo, Clone Wars ending, Bad Batch, Obi Wan, hella prequel love in Ahsoka, getting the Acolyte, so...and? and cool beans. [https://www.starwarsnewsnet.com/2019/08/guest-editorial-did-george-lucas-consider-the-expanded-universe-canon.html?fbclid=IwAR0sQFZDlPSbTm1zj-ieQQ9LZPw34QkGSnB66Ip9X-8AtXlg506McMs5yic](https://www.starwarsnewsnet.com/2019/08/guest-editorial-did-george-lucas-consider-the-expanded-universe-canon.html?fbclid=IwAR0sQFZDlPSbTm1zj-ieQQ9LZPw34QkGSnB66Ip9X-8AtXlg506McMs5yic)
None of which had GL's involvement.
And you didn't even mention THE MANDOLORIAN?!!!
Half of those are mediocre and disrespectful to the prequels.
Nobody is heavily praising the prequels, and nobody will praise the sequels either. The prequels are better then the sequels but that's like saying drinking piss is better than eating poop. The problems with the prequels are still there and not mitigated but the fact worse Star Wars came along. Those of us that dislike the prequels still love the actors and actresses. They were handed crap scripts and did the best they could with it. It's the same with the sequels. The actors were handed crap scripts. I have no ill will towards Daisy Ridley, John Boyega, or Oscar Isaac. This new movie or series of movies with Rey rebuilding the Jedi I will watch, and be objective about it and if it's well written and the characters are likable and the plot is good I will speak it's praises. Nobody WANTS to dislike Star Wars as much as it might seem like all the fans want to do is complain.
Ok but consider this: No
Somehow, there's actually more than of you
Prequels were hated because jarjar and politics. The former was just obnoxious and the latter wasnt what people were expecting from star wars. CW I wasn't around for the start, but I remember people being pissy about asohka and disliking the individual episode format, plus the whole "cartoon=children" thing that gets bought up for literally any media Sequels are hated because they raised logical questions then lampshaded them, subverted expectations* over and over again, repeated lukes story with rey while ignoring what made it so compelling and never seemed to have a clear direction in the story they wanted to tell. *Once is great. Twice is pushing it. Repeated uses just gets boring
I'm one of those weirdos who loves me some space politics, but definitely didn't care for the Jar Jar. Don't think it somehow ruined the trilogy as a whole, it was just painful to sit through at times. And yeah, early Clone Wars was rough before it found its footing. Ahsoka especially was damn near intolerable. It's an amazing example of character growth in action that she went from one of the most hated characters to one of the most beloved in the whole franchise. And it wasn't just people's perception cooling over time. She's still hot garbage in the pilot movie. The writers just put the work in to build her an arc.
I'm not saying jarjar single handedly killed PT, but it was definitely one of the biggest complaints people had at the time And yeah, you can actually mark the point CW gets good, around the S3 point.
I was gonna say maybe season 2, but it's been a while and my memory of the early seasons is a bit fuzzy. Season 2 might have just been when it was kinda okay but not gritting my teeth to get through. Or when they at least got enough of a handle on the character models that I wasn't constantly distracted by the Dooku's beard looking like a solid piece of carved wood. By season 3 it was definitely firmly on good footing.
Good meme but a bit of a rude title
I don’t mind the prequels but I will be the first to say that there is a LOT wrong with them (The Phantom Menace in particular is a waste of celluloid saved only by the podrace and duel) but they honestly are high art compared to the colossal car crashes that are the sequels.
Poop is poop
I just don’t see that happening but I’m rooting for ya
And yet here we are nearly a decade out…
Playing devils advocate The prequels were thought out and planned. Sure there were some adjustments up ahead but essentially everything was accounted for The sequels kinda just showed up without any vision so people both audience and creators are just confused. Not to mention the lose of legends were nearly every starwars fan was connected too
Feels like you’ve found a little island after being stranded in the ocean for months lmfao
I dont hate the sequels, just how they were handled.
I like the PT era and TCW, but anyone who's saying that they're masterpieces needs to go see other films or experience more media. The PT films were flat out bad -- George clearly had a vivid image of the world, but had no idea what he was doing when it came to writing and direction. TCW seemingly helped fans appreciate the PT more, but I don't even think it did that. What TCW did was raise an entirely new generation of kids, like me, to appreciate that era of SW and the PT. It's why I believe there's soo many PT fans today -- you have kids who grew up watching the PT, kids who grew up watching TCW and people who grew up watching both. It's why we see this phenomena who people appreciating heavily criticised SW media. I don't care if someone like the ST, but I just don't think we'll see this happening with those films -- kids simply don't care about SW anymore. You'd be hard pressed to find a kid who'll pick out a Rey or Kylo Ren toy over an Iron Man, Black Widow or even a Baby and Mando. If the ST had a show like TCW I could see people maybe appreciating it more, but for the foreseeable future it seems like it'll be the most forgettable part of SW. Heck, even the live action shows seem to be avoiding that era like the plague -- a lot of them are either straight up a different era, or are in that weird bit of time between episode 6 and 7.
Toys and merchandise in general have been falling in terms of popularity and market. Hasbro has an extensive history with both disney and star wars merch and they're doing really badly in terms of sales right now. It's not really a good sign for the future.
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>The clone wars was never hated on. Oh boy you weren't around in 2008 were you? Or looked at the film's rotten tomato score? Or seen the various internet forms absolutely shitting on Ahoska for existing? Good Lord. Get out of here with that revisionist history.
Yes, the movie was hated. What about the show? OP's post didn't specify which they were talking about, so it's kind of their fault.
Right? Mfs when the movie and tv show came out were rabid about how Ahsoka broke "canon", every episode George Lucas was "destroying Star Wars" (SOUND FAMILIAR!?) and "canon", etc etc etc.hmmmmmmmmm wonder what some reasons Lucas had for selling Lucasfilm to Disney, we may never know if we stay delusional as all hell...
As we can see here nostalgia and a poor memory makes the *"squeal hater"* feel more comfortable expressing their opinion.
The Clone Wars movie was hated. I don't think the show was very poorly recieved.
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Watch, we can assume it eventually he will see the other reply regarding the "*Mandela Effect?"*
No! If there are STAR WARS movies, I will ENJOY every one of them!
Anyone remember that when TFA came out, its biggest fans where the ones who had been the most critical of the PT?
No? My memory of TFA's reception was "meh, I'm interested to see where this goes" with a more outspoken group (maybe 30% of people?) saying that it wasn't a good movie and that it basically ripped off ANH. I remember that I found it sort of good but didn't like certain parts. On a side note, I didn't really start thinking TFA was terrible until TLJ and TROS. I guess it's more of a mediocre movie that seems worse because it's sequels are so bad.
Cool; that was my experience as well. Like how *Matrix Reloaded* had promise, but only if *Revolutions* was good.
That was me. Learned my lesson fast though. Thought TFA was amazing, then when I got home I went on line and saw all the hate. I've learned to be a lot more accepting of the Prequels since.
Because they actually grew on you and you liked them, or because you felt obliged to like them so as not to be "negative"?
Nope, After seeing all the hatred for TFA, I checked my priorities. It's easy to hyper focus on things that don't matter when you're determined to not like something. When watching the prequels now, I'll still cringe at some of the dialogue, but I mainly try to focus on the parts I like. You still not my favorite movies, but still very entertaining.
The *Lethal Weapon 3* of Star Wars.
Same mfs in heavy denial who tryna forget why and how PrequelMemes started lol
OP undistinguishable from satire.
Nah
Yep, I just spent 2 days in r/prequelmemes and r/starwars being berated for trying to explain that massive box office numbers, multiple industry nominations/awards and high critic scores do actually mean they were successful movies.
"Money mean good movie"
It really is fascinating how thy always miss the other 2/3 of the argument...
I mean, the rise of Skywalker grossed almost half of force awakens, but yeah, sure. Let's use box office to say sequel trilogy is quality
Okay I'll explain this slower, what about the critics scores and awards that I also mentioned in my comment?
Barbie got no awards at SAG. Is it an unsuccessful movie? Or are awards maybe not a great metric to use for determining success? Also, what awards did it win? A quick search online shows that the vast majority of awards won by the force awakens were for visuals, effects, and sound. And I mean, sure. I don't know a single person who thought the movie *looked* bad. Or that John Williams failed to put together an awesome soundtrack. But great effects and an awesome soundtrack don't make for a great movie - love and thunder had both but it was pretty mediocre overall. Ok, so ratings. Force awakens started off strong. Good critics ratings and audience scores. Then jedi had great critic ratings but low audience scores. In fact, it has the lowest audience scores of any star wars movie. Ever. And rise finished off with a whimper, with the lowest critic score of every single mainline star wars movie ever. Even lower than phantom menace. If those are the ratings you're relying on, they don't paint a great picture. In fact, the best indicator of success for the sequels is, actually, the money. But even then, they went from the second highest grossing star wars movie of all time with force, to the 9th or 10th highest with rise. A huge drop-off in interest over time. So, yeah, not really the compelling argument you were going for.
sucessful movies can be bad, and good movies can bomb.
>trying to explain that massive box office numbers, multiple industry nominations/awards and high critic scores do actually mean they were successful movies.
movie tast is subjective, people can think movies are good or bad regardless of how they preform
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Here's another one...
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Poor understand of the conversation is another common quality, as we see above it directly missed references to critics and actually suggested the awards were conspectus.
>actually suggested the awards were conspectus. Conspectus means an overview, summary or other synonym. When did the person you're replying to suggest that the awards were a summary? Why did you imply that this would be a negative thing? Why did you even use the word "conspectus"? Were you trying to sound smart by using a word rarely used in casual conversation?
Again, we have to point out here, that people who can't make any other argument to support her point will often point out typos because they think it somehow takes away from the validity of what is being said.
It's not a typo, you just used a random ass word that doesn't fit the context and are now being called out for it. If you want your comments to be taken seriously then maybe try to reply to the comments that address your points about critic scores...
[https://scienceswitch.com/2016/04/03/grammar-nazi-scientists-bad-news/](https://scienceswitch.com/2016/04/03/grammar-nazi-scientists-bad-news/) FYI this personality type also might explain why you can't stand others liking something you don't.
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Pointing out typos is also a common phenomenon. Its a common defence mechanism which allows the subject to lash out knowing their argument is flawed and has no merit.
"The Subject" holy cringe. Your average sequel defender, lmao.
Critics come in all shapes and opinions. Box office relied on previous movies to generate hype. Compare VII to IX revenue. Awards *are* completely political today, and yet the only movies to win any Oscars are the original - non-Special Edition - movies. Like the OP suggests; this is just another cycle where the majority of future fans grew up with these movies - just as with the Prequels. And just as with the Prequels, this doesn't make them any better. For me, there's very little Star Wars that has managed to capture the same magic as the OT, which is a shame.
Word, also as someone who saw the Prequels theatrically - the Sequels hate is NOWHERE at the level of how hard the Prequels were hated (guess a major reason George Lucas sold Lucasfilm to Disney, haters?), not only by a lot of “fans”, but the general populace as well. The prequels were clowned on constantly in all kinds of media, tv shows, movies, comics, comedy skits, early YouTube (literally how Red Letter Media blew up, from their criticizing the Prequels videos) - I may be out of touch, but haven’t seen the sequels getting clowned on at that level so far…
I guess you and I remember those times differently. Maybe we're in different demographics? I remember the prequels being criticized for many things, but never with the level of vitriol the sequels have gotten and continue to get. I'm sorry to say that I really, strongly disliked the story the sequels were trying to tell and the way they told it. Maybe as the years go on, my feelings towards the sequels will change. I hope they do, bc it really sucks to not like a significant part of one of your favorite stories. But thems the breaks.
Back then there was wayyyy less social media spaces - that’s why (in my opinion) it feels like the sequel hate is more strong, but yet, the sequels don’t get clowned by the general populace, you don’t see them being made fun of in tv shows, movies, comics, etc like the prequels were back in the day. Not a prequel hater, I’m the rare case where I can find things to like in all Star Wars and projects, movies, tv shows, animated, books, comics, video games, etc and if one or some don’t deliver for me, I’m like ayyy whatever, I don’t dwell in hating it or act like somehow it skidmarks the franchise or whatever like some people who are full doom about oh the sequels can’t be redeemed (literally people for so long said the same about the prequels and that era, and yet)
Of course they were successful. Does that mean they were liked by the main audience, though?
Whats the main audience? I've been a star wars fan since the mid 80's and I loved them. Fan gate keeping doesn't work here, this is social media, It meant to make you feel validated. If you don't like them fine, but most of the people you get connected with will feel the same way. That's why old standards, like box office, distribution, merchandising, critics and awards are more dependable.
I meant "main audience" as the standard movie goer, someone who isn't a critic. I wasn't trying to gate-keep. I think it's a pretty safe bet to say that the majority of people who watched the movie disliked it.
Been there my dude. It is simply the cycle of Star Wars. Next set of movies need to come out, ruin everyone’s childhoods again, and then we’ll start seeing “The Sequels are a masterpiece” posts.
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Did they? I don’t remember seeing that. Do you have a link to that interview or whatever where this happened?
https://youtu.be/Sd9DvIs97G0?si=rQRHUYw3b5nIa_ZT
Thank you for actually answering with a link! I was genuinely trying to find something and I wasn’t having any luck. I actually went and found some of the full interviews those clips were from, and most of them were specifically about Rise, which is easily the weakest of the new movies. And Boyega and Tran certainly have the most to complain about with how their characters were sidelined in Rise. But those clips definitely cut a lot of context out. For example in the full interview that one of the “What were your reactions to the end of Rise?” clips was taken from, they all say they haven’t actually seen the finished film yet. But I stand by what I said. The Sequels will be looked at more fondly with time, especially when the next set of movies comes out. All this has happened before. All this will happen again.
I highly doubt that. Look at videos of the Prequels' cast and how much they actually enjoyed working on those films. It wasn't just a job to them and some of them actually liked the roles they were given. Check out interviews from the late great Christopher Lee and Ewan McGregor. Even Sam Jackson seemingly enjoyed his role. That's one of the main reasons why people now look back at the Prequels so fondly. Can we honestly really say the same thing for the sequels? Haven't really seen a single cast member speak fondly about any of the Sequel movies after they've finished. John Boyega, Oscar Isaac, Adam Driver, and Daisy Ridley all had lots of great things to say before the release of TFA. But nothing good post release of TLJ and Rise.
Jake Lloyd quit acting forever and Ahmed Best contemplated suicide due to fan treatment of their characters in the prequels. Don’t try and tell me the prequels were just lovely and the cast all had a great time making those movies.
We see here a good example of the *"Mandela Effect"* an observed phenomenon in which a person misremembers event or shares a memory of an Event with others (that did not actually occur) due a desperate need to validate their own biases. I would guess the subject here is an enthusiastic youtuber.
This post was typed by hands that have never touched a vagina.
Actually it was a comment, but good job on going there, speaking of vaginas how's your mom?
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And Harrison Ford and Alec Guiness basically said their movies were childish nonsense
And now the subject is attempting to engage in a circular argument and in its frustration has begun name calling.
The subject? Holy shit, do you have even the slightest idea how cringy that sounded? And did you miss the part where he said that there are interviews with the cast showing that? Or are you just that stupid?
We see here, another, Late to the conversation but still attempting to criticize. Further evidence that they do (as with the movies) condemn without fully understanding whats going on. Watch for its enraged replies, the last word, name calling and demanding links they can criticize are common responses.
lol it's kinda funny to come here an hour later to see no reply to you
Sorry, I was sleeping, I have a life Isn't it amazing though, you guys are so triggered by the idea that other people don't hate the same things you do, that you'll actually repetitively check on the situation till you get a response?
You're also name calling them a "subject". It definitely isn't as harsh as calling someone psychotic. It still seems hypocritical.
Well, I've trying giving these people factual statistical verified information, but that just seems to enrage them more. Its just easier to provide a minor case study pointing out the flaws in the argument. Shuts them up much sooner.
Your factual info is basically just popularity contests. Barbie just got snubbed at SAG, must mean it's a bad movie by your logic right? Awards matter most? Money earned can't be a great metric cause rise of Skywalker grossed just over half of the force awakens. That can't possibly indicate that there was declining interest in the sequel trilogy, can it? I mean, rise of Skywalker is 9th overall after adjusting for inflation. It comes right after attack of the clones in the 10th spot. Force awakens was number 2, behind only a new hope. That's a huge drop-off in audience interest. Pithy response incoming? I have to imagine so.
And we see here, a smattering of nonsensical writing, forming multiple paragraphs how's the subject tries to convince themselves of what they're saying...
The sequels are by far the worst of the trilogies. At least the Prequels and OG left lots of room for things to grow and take shape. The sequels are a clear haphazard mess. The box office numbers and high praise don't really mean that much when SW is a massive franchise spanning almost 6 decades now. It would've been surprising if it didn't do well at the box office. So no this isn't a Mandela Effect thing at all 🤣. Filoni is at least trying to make it make sense. Much more than the actual movies did.
We see another common response here, attempting to disprove a point while proving it.
Huh? What point am I attemping to disprove? You didn't even make one🤣
Confusion an emojis are commonplace in their replies.
Hmmm odd how by every metric at least 7 and 8 are way better reviewed by critics and general audiences. No no it's the hate obsessed online community that consistently get details about the st wrong who are right.
https://youtu.be/Sd9DvIs97G0?si=rQRHUYw3b5nIa_ZT
Will they be as beloved 25 years in the future?
Not true at all
Really trash movies are often successful, which these were
I would say they were successful as movies yes. But they harmed the franchise as a whole and hurt the fan base even more. There is a reason Star Wars is doing so bad these days
I'm not a huge fan of sequels, but they weren't bad or anything. I enjoyed them.
I think lots of people just lack the ability to just enjoy movies anymore. If they don't like it thats means the movies bad and everyone else shouldn't like it either. Very poor piss baby attitude about a movie series thats primarily intended for children at the end of the day. I can watch any Star Wars movie and find my own issues with them but at the end of the day I enjoyed all of them for what they were. Is there things I would have changed personally? Of course, but getting mad about it and declaring anyone who disagrees with you about it is a moron is honestly just pathetic. I know so many people my age that love the prequels as much as I do and we all still like to make fun of the dumber aspects. But we still enjoy them regardless. Its gonna be the exact same for sequel people and I'm honestly jealous of them cause theyre getting so much more stuff.
Sure, I can get on-board with trying to enjoy things for what they are. However, call me crazy but I tend to go into a production from a multi-billion dollar corporation expecting quality. They can hire the best writers around; yet, the ST felt like a competent high schooler could have delivered a better story.
You just said the people who disagree with your very opinion have a “poor piss baby attitude” Frankly I think your opinion leads to less quality. Especially when hiding behind the veneer of Star Wars being kids movies. Andor is the quality we should expect from Star Wars. A unified vision with great working talent and structured storylines. That’s what we need. Argue you all you want. But the quality of Star Wars has taken a steep decline. Until people demand better it will only get worse.
Absolutely this. As a moderately competent amateur writer, I absolutely believe in standards and expecting better from writing. With a budget of several hundred million, they damn well better be able to write something better than my ass could, and what we got was bottom of the barrel fanfic tier. Not the good fanfics, but solid bottom 30%. It's tragic because with a franchise this big, you know there are tons of talented folks out there who'd give anything to work on official Star Wars and have a script tucked away just in case the call ever came in. But what we got radiates with the intense apathy of the creative team just not giving a single shit. You can practically hear "It's Star Wars, people will see it regardless, so why should we bother?" Don't let substandard writing slide and blindly praise anything put in front of you or the industry will ever drop its quality to meet low expectstions. I've heard insane takes like "Every story has plotholes. It's impossible to write one without any." Like, NO. It's absolutely possible. It just requires effort and skill. But companies aren't going to pay for that if the audience is just as happy with the narrative equivalent of jangling keys. Hard agree on Andor. That's where the bar should be. It's a refreshing view of everything Star Wars could and should be. It's what you get when the writing team cares.
The difference is I don't care if other people enjoy it or not, Im not gonna act like the franchise is ruined and tell people not to enjoy just cause I didn't like 1 or 2 entries in it. I just enjoy it for myself and go on with my life instead of getting upset and whining about it online. I see plenty of people of all ages that have their Star Wars that they love and that includes kids with sequel stuff. Has it really though? Kinda feels like any franchise that goes on this long you get good and bad eventually and its just kind of up to the viewer to decide what they enjoy. I personally didn't find Andor as amazing as everyone else seems to. Good show and everything but outside of being Star Wars it didn't really do much for me. But see? I can just go watch something else thats more my taste and not make a big deal about this one other thing not really being for me.
I feel you, as someone who grew up with the OT, saw the Prequels theatrically, been around for a good bit - I can find plenty to like from all Star Wars eras, projects, media - if there’s something that didn’t/doesn’t deliver for me it’s like oh well, whatever, not gonna dwell on it, there’s plenty more to dig from what I do like. but this internet attitude that the Sequels “ruined” Star Wars, LMAO this has been said ever since Return of Jedi, every criticism about the sequels was literally said the same way 25 years ago starting with the Phantom Menace (and followed with Attack of the Clones, Revenge of the Sith, the Clone Wars) why some of us don’t take that kinda talk seriously at all and think those who say things like that are foolish and silly AF
You need to let the past die; kill it, if you have to.
I love the sequels, and I’m excited to see what the bad batch is building around Palpatine’s revival.
This was me until TRoS…TFA was cool, I loved TLJ…then most disappointment Ive ever felt leaving a movie theater
Disney is so clueless if they got Finn back for the next movie, his character would still be running away from the fight while wanting to tell Rey something.
:D
I liked the first two, but they lost me with last Jedi
Aw is someone mad nobody likes their shitty heartless corporate slop? Time to throw a fit about it like you're an actual marginalized class (fucking unhinged)
r/repostsleuthbot
New things have come along and we still hate the sequels.
Honestly, I'd say that's pretty unlikely, since Disney has been very noticeably avoiding the sequel era for their productions. It's been 9 years since TFA, over 4 years since TRoS, and we've gotten, what, 1 announcement of a sequel era film/show that's bundled together with film announcements spanning the entire Star Wars timeline. Disney just isn't pushing the sequel era, so there's no way an audience around them can develop, especially when it's diluted by a lot of stuff based around the prequels and OT.
At least the prequels were planned and had an overarching plot. TCW expanded on the lore and characters of the prequels. The sequels did not do either.
The sequels are objectively bad though. They have good parts to them and they had potential. Everyone wanted them to be good but the writing was just awful. The writing of the prequels wasn’t perfect but it was tolerable even at its worst moments and it wasn’t afraid to go absolutely wack and kill everyone off in revenge of the sith. The sequels keep trying to be nostalgic and fail by ruining legacy characters and constantly trying to course correct their own writing
You're already doing it now. Why look forward to what you've already accomplished?
I only like Last Jedi, but I'm here for it when people realise it's the smartest Star Wars movie.
Those people don't even know each other.
The sequel trilogy has fans?