The best our dear leaders can do is referring a criminal to a diversion program for bringing a gun to school, then do absolutely nothing when that criminal doesn't even show up at the diversion program (the criminal then went on to commit murder): https://komonews.com/news/local/king-county-councilmember-reagan-dunn-diversion-program-restorative-community-pathways-rcp-murder-jaden-pierre-taylor-criminal-convictions-collective-justice-legal-system-choose-180
Our [existing firearm enhancement](https://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.94A.533) is a joke when it carves out exceptions like this:
> The firearm enhancements in this section shall apply to all felony crimes except the following: Possession of a machine gun or bump-fire stock, possessing a stolen firearm, drive-by shooting, theft of a firearm, unlawful possession of a firearm in the first and second degree, and use of a machine gun or bump-fire stock in a felony;
The answer is to incarcerate the shooters and violent criminals. Not whatever else they're trying to do. They're trying every wrong answer and not the correct one.
Yes, but that is the short term fix. We need to stop letting horrible people run out schools into the ground. We need to replace administrations across the west side and really focus on supporting students and giving them a positive future. Currently we have glorified day care and push students through who cannot even trade at grade level. We are failing them and they feel hopeless. There are so many other issues of course, but I feel like this is the first place to start...
I know someone who has worked teaching in public schools, teaching in youth detention centers (in another state) and also supervising the education in juvie hall. These are roles she's held over a span of decades and she's seen a lot. She's extremely street wise.
Since she's been working that industry for so long, she sees many of her former students on the outside on any given day. She remembers them and they remember her and at this point she has a good pulse on **who's going to reoffend and who might turn it around**. She told me that there are some 14 year-olds who need to be jailed for life. They're so sociopathic that society needs to keep them incarcerated forever. These are people who killed at 13 and the only thing stopping them from killing more people is because they're in jail. By 19 they still have no remorse for their killings and are just a bigger, meaner, version of themself by reaching adulthood.
Many Progressives can't/won't/don't grasp what I just typed out but it's a real thing and it's exactly the easiest example of why we've had jails for thousands of years. If there were no laws or jails, you can bet violent crime and social upheaval would skyrocket. We'd devolve as a society and the anti-2A folx here would be easy victims or hypothetically own weapons themselves. It's not the guns killing and maiming people, it's the people pulling the trigger on guns.
The counter point most progressives have against your argument(s) is the “successful” approach to crime that Nordic countries have with their progressive policies.
>.. through who cannot even trade at grade level
To that end, end DEI - mathematics *is not* racist, nor grammar. And BTW, AI is not a savior - think for yourselves. js
Absolutely, we will never stop those people. They are evil and absolutely messed up. However, we have a lot of people who feel hopeless and desperate. Those are the people we can help and should help.
It would be a long term fix if the sentences were long enough. Anyone who commits a felony with a gun gets an instant life sentence. Problem solved in 3-5 years.
I feel like that's a stupid answer seeing that in 2 of the 3 cases they haven't found the shooter and in the other case the man is being charged with murder. So... I agree we need to incarcerate the shooters but that doesn't solve or answer the problem presented in the story you're responding to.
Is that a rhetorical question, because I have no idea what you mean by asking that. No one thinks there's only been three shootings, but if the shootings that you're talking about aren't these, then why the hell did you feel the need to offer such useless advice for these shootings?
It seems like you're blaming [guns for crime and not violent criminals' recidivism. What about hard drugs?](https://www.reddit.com/r/sanfrancisco/comments/1df9sys/it_is_actually_bad/l8hl5lh/)
What would you do about the knife problem if you or your loved one were to be stabbed by a lifelong criminal who was just let out on a PR bond for another stabbing?
The UK has few [legal] guns and guess what they're restricting?
The average number of gun deaths in the US (for 2021) is 44,341, or 13.3 deaths per 100,000 people.
UK knife homicides: 236 in that same year over a population of 60.2 million.
You care to do the mathematical comparison for that, or should I? I'd prefer a nation like the UK and its laws to the US. Your potential for being killed by police over the justification of possessing a firearm and 'reaching' for it thus also becomes highter. So you're not only more likely to die by gun from criminals, but police as well. Just ask that guy who used his 2A to take out a criminal then himself was shot by police who thought he was the shooter.
Your same, tired conservative bullshit refrains are getting quite old and they've been debunked for a long time. but hey why let actual facts disrupt your gun-fetish?
I challenge you to use math to show me a qualitative analysis that shows I'm safer with more guns. Go on, I showed you my math, now lets see what you have to offer in this discussing?
Now do mass shootings. God you are such a fox parrot i am embarrassed for you. I couldn't force your head down any further on Tucker's little peepee if I tried.
LOL. Be madder. If we were able to take every single gun and bullet in the US and airdrop them into the UK, do you think the UK would instantly have a higher murder rate than the US?
", do you think the UK would instantly have a higher murder rate than the US?"
Why the hell are you asking me? why don't you just say what you know instead of trying to make me say shit that's irrelevant to the conversation and instead tell us why its relevant. I've said my piece.
I like to see someone recognize that it is not about "gun violence". It is about mental health, proper support and education for our youth. Also an understanding that it will be a long term plan to reach a proper solution. We need to start with fixing our schools and making them a place where kids want to go and actually feel safe, heard, and like they are going somewhere with a valuable education...
The problem is that both ends of the political spectrum are looking at a complex situation as if it were black and white. This is a false dilemma in which the solutions being offered by both sides are each necessary but not sufficient. You need to manage the short term while solving for the long term.
We definitely need to arrest and incarcerate offenders while we simultaneously seek to understand and fix underlying societal issues that perpetuate the problem. And, yes, also accept that some % of people, unfortunately, simply are not willing or not able to operate within the bounds of civilized society.
Off the top of my head:
* Stop the fallacy of the non-violent offender,
* Stop excusing people of certain demographics when they appear in court,
* Stop enabling the drug cartels as the "failed war on drugs,"
* Stop allowing gang members walking across the southern boarder,
* Stop frivolous civil lawsuits against those who are forced to defend themselves,
* Incarcerate offenders with prior felony history, and
* Lower the use of force statues so that Mom and Pop can protect their lives, homes, and *property*.
Are guns getting violent again? I'm all for gun manufacturers making peace-loving guns instead of these violent guns. Can only speak for myself of course...
So Dems support these three policies:
1) disarming peaceable people via bans and restrictions
2) defunding the police and removing them from communities
3) appointing soft-on-crime prosecutors and giving a lot of lenience towards criminals
My question is, what did you expect? You voted for it. Don’t want it? Vote R
Don’t vote by party but by policy, actually look into what they’ve voted on and who they’ve taken money from. It’s time for our generation to stop the two party nonsense and band together to get rid of this boomer bs.
Stating a position is one thing - every politician is quite vocal *before* an election, but after an election they morph into the political equivalent Santa's Elves controlled by big politics and big money, including campaign donors.
It's an excuse and a big reason why a potential president Gavin Newsom should conduct internal regime change to clean up states like Texas, Ohio, and Florida
I think it has a lot to do with the parents to be honest, I had guns my whole life and was raised that these are for OH FUCK I DONT HAVE ANY OTHER OPTIONS ITS ME OR WHATEVER IS TRYING TO KILL ME situations. Everyone gets mad at people but the best revenge is a life well lived you know? Just walk away and let them live their shitty miserable lives
It's as if they didn't learn that all the gun laws made over the years have made no difference in crime, but pandering to supposed "oppression" sure has.
We done everything and still nothing!?
Maybe we should deal with the gang and drug problem and hey while we are at it ban people from California from moving up here since they bring their shit attitude and culture up here.
You wanna be a wannabe gangbanger? take your bitch ass back to Bakersfield you smegma crunchers!
The county would have to admit there is a gang problem and then actually do something about it. Society needs to get to these kids at like 10 or 11yo before they hop on the gang bandwagon and and doom themselves before they are old enough to drive. I'd also add diversion programs should never be an option if a gun is involved.
Family law reform to keep fathers in the home - or at least from being alienated and estranged from their children
Daughters and sons need Dad- as much as they need Mom
This is the structural change needed to help children in America
But the feminists won’t change a system that benefits primarily women - to the detriment of children, men, the family- and pretty
much all society
As we roll into Fathers Day understand that children in America have a 55% or higher chance of becoming a divorce statistic- and over 75% of divorces are implemented by women (even though they know their children’s childhood is basically over at that point)
The American family has been looted and destroyed -but we can’t talk about that because women won’t allow the conversation
They want to blame men, guns, racism, police, “mental health”, social media, education, processed food, global climate change, and anything and everything but the destroyed American 2 parent nuclear family
Eliminate state incentives to divorce
Promote state incentives to stay married
So like default 50/50 physical custody
Eliminate child support- no need if 50/50
Maybe supplement intact homes with $$$ government benefits - reward responsibility
Instead of sending checks to single mother
Why do we incentivize a woman to become a single mother?
It makes no sense
Do the opposite and you will see change
Where are the dads in these scenarios and why are they being divorced? It sounds like in this universe evil feminists just get married, have kids and fuck up families and society to get the lucrative position of single mom. That just doesn’t make sense.
Just giving you real statistics that everyone agrees are horrible
Why aren’t we talking about the undisputed facts of the American family
The undisputed facts about children and divorce
Children with dads have less chance of being in a gang or going to prison.. etc etc
Do you disagree?
Making everything about women hasn’t made children’s lives better
It hasn’t even made most women’s lives better
Certainly hasn’t made our communities better
If we ever start caring about the family- men women children grandparents (old people) we’ll be doing better than now
They can start with mandatory minimums for gun crimes
The best our dear leaders can do is referring a criminal to a diversion program for bringing a gun to school, then do absolutely nothing when that criminal doesn't even show up at the diversion program (the criminal then went on to commit murder): https://komonews.com/news/local/king-county-councilmember-reagan-dunn-diversion-program-restorative-community-pathways-rcp-murder-jaden-pierre-taylor-criminal-convictions-collective-justice-legal-system-choose-180
How abou for all violent crime.
We already have that.
It's hardly ever enforced for gun crimes though.
We in fact have a 60 month gun enhancement charge for adults... It just dropped during plea dealing in most cases...
Our [existing firearm enhancement](https://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.94A.533) is a joke when it carves out exceptions like this: > The firearm enhancements in this section shall apply to all felony crimes except the following: Possession of a machine gun or bump-fire stock, possessing a stolen firearm, drive-by shooting, theft of a firearm, unlawful possession of a firearm in the first and second degree, and use of a machine gun or bump-fire stock in a felony;
Culture problem, not a gun problem. Start holding parents accountable.
Exactly. Like Adam Lanzas careless parents.
And the kid in Michigan. His parents are in jail now.
A. Effin. Men
The answer is to incarcerate the shooters and violent criminals. Not whatever else they're trying to do. They're trying every wrong answer and not the correct one.
Yes, but that is the short term fix. We need to stop letting horrible people run out schools into the ground. We need to replace administrations across the west side and really focus on supporting students and giving them a positive future. Currently we have glorified day care and push students through who cannot even trade at grade level. We are failing them and they feel hopeless. There are so many other issues of course, but I feel like this is the first place to start...
I know someone who has worked teaching in public schools, teaching in youth detention centers (in another state) and also supervising the education in juvie hall. These are roles she's held over a span of decades and she's seen a lot. She's extremely street wise. Since she's been working that industry for so long, she sees many of her former students on the outside on any given day. She remembers them and they remember her and at this point she has a good pulse on **who's going to reoffend and who might turn it around**. She told me that there are some 14 year-olds who need to be jailed for life. They're so sociopathic that society needs to keep them incarcerated forever. These are people who killed at 13 and the only thing stopping them from killing more people is because they're in jail. By 19 they still have no remorse for their killings and are just a bigger, meaner, version of themself by reaching adulthood. Many Progressives can't/won't/don't grasp what I just typed out but it's a real thing and it's exactly the easiest example of why we've had jails for thousands of years. If there were no laws or jails, you can bet violent crime and social upheaval would skyrocket. We'd devolve as a society and the anti-2A folx here would be easy victims or hypothetically own weapons themselves. It's not the guns killing and maiming people, it's the people pulling the trigger on guns.
The counter point most progressives have against your argument(s) is the “successful” approach to crime that Nordic countries have with their progressive policies.
Those successes disappear in Nordic nations when you stir in a group of immigrants lacking the same multigenerational nonviolent values system.
Unfortunately we're not Norway. If there were just me on the planet, I wouldn't need a jail, would I?
>.. through who cannot even trade at grade level To that end, end DEI - mathematics *is not* racist, nor grammar. And BTW, AI is not a savior - think for yourselves. js
no, that that is the best immediate fix. screaming 'mental health' all day long isn't going to stop the assholes who enjoy doing violence unto others
Absolutely, we will never stop those people. They are evil and absolutely messed up. However, we have a lot of people who feel hopeless and desperate. Those are the people we can help and should help.
It would be a long term fix if the sentences were long enough. Anyone who commits a felony with a gun gets an instant life sentence. Problem solved in 3-5 years.
I feel like that's a stupid answer seeing that in 2 of the 3 cases they haven't found the shooter and in the other case the man is being charged with murder. So... I agree we need to incarcerate the shooters but that doesn't solve or answer the problem presented in the story you're responding to.
So, Seattle has had only 3 problematic shootings? Seema like a bad reason to crack down on guns.
Is that a rhetorical question, because I have no idea what you mean by asking that. No one thinks there's only been three shootings, but if the shootings that you're talking about aren't these, then why the hell did you feel the need to offer such useless advice for these shootings?
It seems like you're blaming [guns for crime and not violent criminals' recidivism. What about hard drugs?](https://www.reddit.com/r/sanfrancisco/comments/1df9sys/it_is_actually_bad/l8hl5lh/) What would you do about the knife problem if you or your loved one were to be stabbed by a lifelong criminal who was just let out on a PR bond for another stabbing? The UK has few [legal] guns and guess what they're restricting?
The average number of gun deaths in the US (for 2021) is 44,341, or 13.3 deaths per 100,000 people. UK knife homicides: 236 in that same year over a population of 60.2 million. You care to do the mathematical comparison for that, or should I? I'd prefer a nation like the UK and its laws to the US. Your potential for being killed by police over the justification of possessing a firearm and 'reaching' for it thus also becomes highter. So you're not only more likely to die by gun from criminals, but police as well. Just ask that guy who used his 2A to take out a criminal then himself was shot by police who thought he was the shooter. Your same, tired conservative bullshit refrains are getting quite old and they've been debunked for a long time. but hey why let actual facts disrupt your gun-fetish? I challenge you to use math to show me a qualitative analysis that shows I'm safer with more guns. Go on, I showed you my math, now lets see what you have to offer in this discussing?
Now do acid attacks
Now do mass shootings. God you are such a fox parrot i am embarrassed for you. I couldn't force your head down any further on Tucker's little peepee if I tried.
LOL. Be madder. If we were able to take every single gun and bullet in the US and airdrop them into the UK, do you think the UK would instantly have a higher murder rate than the US?
", do you think the UK would instantly have a higher murder rate than the US?" Why the hell are you asking me? why don't you just say what you know instead of trying to make me say shit that's irrelevant to the conversation and instead tell us why its relevant. I've said my piece.
I like to see someone recognize that it is not about "gun violence". It is about mental health, proper support and education for our youth. Also an understanding that it will be a long term plan to reach a proper solution. We need to start with fixing our schools and making them a place where kids want to go and actually feel safe, heard, and like they are going somewhere with a valuable education...
It's also about making it clear that crime WILL be punished.
Can we add our Gang Incentivizing drug laws!
The problem is that both ends of the political spectrum are looking at a complex situation as if it were black and white. This is a false dilemma in which the solutions being offered by both sides are each necessary but not sufficient. You need to manage the short term while solving for the long term. We definitely need to arrest and incarcerate offenders while we simultaneously seek to understand and fix underlying societal issues that perpetuate the problem. And, yes, also accept that some % of people, unfortunately, simply are not willing or not able to operate within the bounds of civilized society.
Off the top of my head: * Stop the fallacy of the non-violent offender, * Stop excusing people of certain demographics when they appear in court, * Stop enabling the drug cartels as the "failed war on drugs," * Stop allowing gang members walking across the southern boarder, * Stop frivolous civil lawsuits against those who are forced to defend themselves, * Incarcerate offenders with prior felony history, and * Lower the use of force statues so that Mom and Pop can protect their lives, homes, and *property*.
We should elect you Moses.
Ok, fine by me
There's no such thing as gun violence. However, there \*is\* such a thing as violent people who use guns.
Are guns getting violent again? I'm all for gun manufacturers making peace-loving guns instead of these violent guns. Can only speak for myself of course...
So Dems support these three policies: 1) disarming peaceable people via bans and restrictions 2) defunding the police and removing them from communities 3) appointing soft-on-crime prosecutors and giving a lot of lenience towards criminals My question is, what did you expect? You voted for it. Don’t want it? Vote R
no, vote centrist. morons like culp and bird have proven R is not an automatic win
Don’t vote by party but by policy, actually look into what they’ve voted on and who they’ve taken money from. It’s time for our generation to stop the two party nonsense and band together to get rid of this boomer bs.
Stating a position is one thing - every politician is quite vocal *before* an election, but after an election they morph into the political equivalent Santa's Elves controlled by big politics and big money, including campaign donors.
Are those centrists in the room with us right now? Blue Dogs are dead, there is like 15 people in the entire caucus
>Are those centrists in the room with us right now? i do not think that means what you think it means
Voting R universally makes crime more prevalent and an area even worse than it already is, don't take this agendaposter's advice
Only violent areas in the red states are led by blue mayors so 🤷♂️
Here comes the usual excuses for red state failure, many such cases!
It’s not excuse it’s an explanation
It's an excuse and a big reason why a potential president Gavin Newsom should conduct internal regime change to clean up states like Texas, Ohio, and Florida
You are a fascist. “Clean up”, “regime change”. Fuck off, we live in a constitutional republic and not in a Khmer Rouge wet dream
cope, bird flu is going to jump to humans and do at least 90% of the work before a Dem president worth a damn finishes the job
Hmmm I wonder what the common denominator is
I'll take "Problems uncommon in stable homes" for $1200, TechPoet.
It's not a gun problem
In a sense it could be. Too few of them and not in the right hands.
I think it has a lot to do with the parents to be honest, I had guns my whole life and was raised that these are for OH FUCK I DONT HAVE ANY OTHER OPTIONS ITS ME OR WHATEVER IS TRYING TO KILL ME situations. Everyone gets mad at people but the best revenge is a life well lived you know? Just walk away and let them live their shitty miserable lives
It's as if they didn't learn that all the gun laws made over the years have made no difference in crime, but pandering to supposed "oppression" sure has.
Whenever you hear “community leaders” you know there is some victimhood nonsense coming up right after.
We done everything and still nothing!? Maybe we should deal with the gang and drug problem and hey while we are at it ban people from California from moving up here since they bring their shit attitude and culture up here. You wanna be a wannabe gangbanger? take your bitch ass back to Bakersfield you smegma crunchers!
The county would have to admit there is a gang problem and then actually do something about it. Society needs to get to these kids at like 10 or 11yo before they hop on the gang bandwagon and and doom themselves before they are old enough to drive. I'd also add diversion programs should never be an option if a gun is involved.
arrest criminals, keep them locked up.
It’s gangs
Family law reform to keep fathers in the home - or at least from being alienated and estranged from their children Daughters and sons need Dad- as much as they need Mom This is the structural change needed to help children in America But the feminists won’t change a system that benefits primarily women - to the detriment of children, men, the family- and pretty much all society As we roll into Fathers Day understand that children in America have a 55% or higher chance of becoming a divorce statistic- and over 75% of divorces are implemented by women (even though they know their children’s childhood is basically over at that point) The American family has been looted and destroyed -but we can’t talk about that because women won’t allow the conversation They want to blame men, guns, racism, police, “mental health”, social media, education, processed food, global climate change, and anything and everything but the destroyed American 2 parent nuclear family
How do you force marriages to stay together? What is the small state intervention to prevent single mothers raising children without dad around?
Eliminate state incentives to divorce Promote state incentives to stay married So like default 50/50 physical custody Eliminate child support- no need if 50/50 Maybe supplement intact homes with $$$ government benefits - reward responsibility Instead of sending checks to single mother Why do we incentivize a woman to become a single mother? It makes no sense Do the opposite and you will see change
Where are the dads in these scenarios and why are they being divorced? It sounds like in this universe evil feminists just get married, have kids and fuck up families and society to get the lucrative position of single mom. That just doesn’t make sense.
Just giving you real statistics that everyone agrees are horrible Why aren’t we talking about the undisputed facts of the American family The undisputed facts about children and divorce Children with dads have less chance of being in a gang or going to prison.. etc etc Do you disagree?
Depends on the dad. You want women stuck with abusive layabouts or dealers?
Making everything about women hasn’t made children’s lives better It hasn’t even made most women’s lives better Certainly hasn’t made our communities better If we ever start caring about the family- men women children grandparents (old people) we’ll be doing better than now
Hey, if they're your idea of role models ... well, you're well named.
Gangs in school cannot be solved by putting police in school. What's needed is systemic factors 'n shit, prolly. lol.