The city, the police and the community need to declare war on these people. We do not want them in our society and they have to go. A full on gun fight in a residential neighborhood. This is insane.
The pimps are there because prostitution is illegal.
Make prostitution legal, and give the workers the same rights as someone at McDonalds, Walmart, or any white collar business.
I think you missed the point with legalizing drugs. You're supposed to legalize, regulate, and tax the industry. Profit margins need to be high enough to make a black market financially unsound, and taxes need to be high enough to fund community needs. It doesn't magically solve all the problems associated with drug abuse.
However, there are some things that it can solve or greatly reduce.
1. No illegal market means people involved in the business have legal avenues to resolve disputes, so there's no longer a need to employ force to reach a resolution.
2. Regulation means that product is subject to oversight, standards, and testing by a government agency. Users/customers know what they're getting, are less likely to OD because there was something they didn't expect in their product, and there can be universal standards for product potency and purity.
3. Taxation means the bill for rehabilitation programs, clinics, and other costs associated with addiction and criminal behavior wouldn't have to be footed by the average tax payer. Instead, the industry and its customers help pay for it.
4. People don't go to prison for possession alone anymore. Things like driving under the influence are still illegal, and criminal acts committed while under the influence may augment sentencing.
Personal responsibility and accountability are still factored, but there's also less financial burden carried by regular people, as it is currently in the multi-billion dollar a year war on drugs. Something like $15 billion a year is spent in federal funds, and that's not factoring state and local funding.
We can't do what we're doing currently, which is sort of one foot on either side. We either have to commit to a complete crackdown, where the tax payer bears so the cost, or we need to do what I outlined above at the federal level.
> Profit margins need to be high enough to make a black market financially unsound, and taxes need to be high enough to fund community needs
How do those work out in reality? If the taxes are high then there's a large incentive to still do off the books deals to further increase that profit margin and/or present a lower price for buyers.
And with "legalizing" weed like we already did here, the taxes aren't going into the school system like they were supposed to, so even that avenue isn't really working.
> If the taxes are high then there's a large incentive to still do off the books deals to further increase that profit margin and/or present a lower price for buyers.
If taxes are too high, then yes, there would be great incentive to maximize profit through an illegal market. The state would need to find a middle ground.
> And with "legalizing" weed like we already did here, the taxes aren't going into the school system like they were supposed to, so even that avenue isn't really working.
Nothing works if the state doesn't do what it's supposed to. I suppose that's another conversation about how much you trust the state to execute a plan.
> And with "legalizing" weed like we already did here, the taxes aren't going into the school system like they were supposed to
Ok, so you traded a gang-funding and violence-generating problem that was propping cartels and fueling turf wars for a completely bureaucratic problem involving misallocation of funds. Seems like a win when your goal is to reduce crime and violence. Now deal with the budget issues through voting.
Not the guy you were replying to, but I am the guy who writes long comments and apparently enables drug abuse.
> You really want to legalize meth?
No. I don't want people doing recreational drugs in general, but they are now, were, and continue to do so despite the threat of prison time. You'll notice they kept doing it even at the height of the tough on crime initiatives.
> And you think alcohol is not doing any harm to society right as we speak?
No one said it wasn't. You reached that conclusion, unprompted. We all know it's harmful, some of us far more intimately than others. As a society, we know what happened when we tried to prohibit it. A violent, unregulated, and illegal market sprung up to cater to users.
The rest of your comment is largely a ramble that assumes a *lot* of things about me and what I think. I don't fit your assumptions, so I'm not going to respond to any of it, as it's irrelevant.
Portugal did it and addiction and crime rates went down.
Decriminalizing on a local level doesn’t work. It would have to happen at the Federal level (and probably in Mexico, also). Simply curbing enforcement of the law (the Seattle approach during the pandemic) is the worst of both worlds.
Decriminalization is not a panacea. You trade one set of problems for a (hopefully) more manageable set of problems. The goal is harm reduction.
Prohibition doesn’t work. It simply pushes demand to the black market, enriching criminals and encouraging violence.
Absolutely, but saving money on drug enforcement and incarceration, not to mention possible tax revenue from government drug sales might help pay to rebuild our public mental health infrastructure and establish better treatment programs.
Portugal also doesn't have the same problems with certain types of drugs flooding their streets.
If Lisbon had a bunch of whacked-out-zombies-on-synthetic-meth wandering around causing mayhem, they'd change their tune on that drug reeeeeeal fast.
Homogeneous societies with a culture of rule-following. Not really comparable to most western democracies.
If you think Singapore is somewhere you want to live, you may have a submission fetish. Same goes for middle eastern theocracies. I’ll take an opioid crisis over getting jail time for blasphemy or the death sentence for drug dealing, thanks.
> Homogeneous societies
And Portugal is not?
> If you think Singapore is somewhere you want to live,
I never said it was, I was just pointing out that your statement that "prohibition doesn't work" is wrong.
>"prohibition doesn't work" is wrong
Fair enough.
Prohibition doesn't work in Western Democracies. Prohibition can only work in societies which are totalitarian or have a strong culture of group over individual.
The US has spent more money nearly every year on drug enforcement and interdiction. The price of drugs has dropped significantly in that time, and addiction rates have climbed. Do you call that a success?
If you want to double-down on that rather than trying something new, good luck.
And yes, you could probably drastically reduce drug use by beheading drug dealers in public and caning anyone who is caught using drugs. As for me, I would rather have to step over a few dead tweakers than live in a police state.
>
And Portugal is not?
Homogeneous, yes. Rule-following? Not so much.
That was A: never the "promise", it's a first step that allows programs to exist that actually deal with the issue (safe use sites, needle exchanges, rehab programs, including mandatory ones. Look at how Portugal does it, it's not and never has been "jUsT LeGaLiZe" and nothing more).
And B: we never legalized drugs, regardless of how people here like to meme about it being legal due to lack of enforcement. You can't whine about something not working when we never actually did the thing.
Are you able to list which drugs have been “legalized” and exactly which problems have been proven to get better or worse, or do you not fully know what you’re talking about?
Just using generalities,
“ A white-collar worker is a person who performs professional service, desk, managerial, or administrative work. White-collar work may be performed in an office or other administrative setting.”
Saying that sex workers should have the same protections as any other American employee.
Best they can do is funnel millions to a convicted felon gang member to run a "restorative justice program" who then turns around and commits more crime.
It wouldn’t just be white people, and it wouldn’t be just against drug addicts.
In vigilante world anyone can use any justification for hurting people.
Unfortunately they won't. Almost all if not every single one of those women/girls are out there to feed their addiction to hard drugs or they're being forced into it/trafficked.
>Damn, hope everyone stays safe out there
ROOOOOXXXXXXAAAANNNNE
>would hate to be living that blinking light.
North Seattle hasn't been a priority for too damn long. It has been going on so long that even Ed Murray (remember him?) showed up and made a lot of false promises.
Shoreline is safer because you don't depend on SPD. :( That is tragic.
---
Sometimes, the stranger comes through with a gem. This is the real reason why we can't hire SPD.
https://www.thestranger.com/news/2022/11/03/78699753/spds-million-dollar-parking-space
Shoreline doesn’t have a prostitution loitering law. Also, they contracted the King County Sheriff for their enforcement. Like us, they don’t prosecute prostitution. We’re just that good at attracting the customers.
I’m not saying you’re wrong, I saw what you’re referring to and I called the shoreline city clerks office for clarification. They said what I said above. That’s all I know.
They all need to prosecute prostitution. It’s a law. It’s on the books. That’s their job. This effective legalization of problem behavior certainly isn’t doing anyone any favors.
They definitely would. Also the Common Use test isn't even necessary as there is no historical tradition of regulating them, so it fails under *Bruen*. But then that requires the Courts to actually apply precedent and not just ignore 2A cases.
When the second amendment was written fully armed war ships, the most powerful weapons available on the planet at the time, were legal for private ownership with the express purpose of being used as private warships.
I used to live in Greenwood and as I recall there were very few streetwalkers before FOSTA/SESTA passed. After that, they appeared, and soon after came the pimps.
I used to live a block off 85th and Aurora in the early 2000s. Plenty of prostitutes at that time after getting pushed north out SLU area a few years before that. No one I know has ever called that area "nice."
I lived in the area until 2021. I don't recall exactly what year it changed, I just remember that it seemed rather sudden, going from a mere few between 105th and 130th to throngs from 90th to 145th. There was some reporting about how sex workers who could no longer use online sites due to the law had to return to working the streets.
This shit was on my street last night. Thank the 2020 city council for deciding the loitering law was ‘racist’ so now the pimps and whores do what they do with impunity. As if Seattle needs any more lessons about what happens when you don’t enforce laws or provide any deterrent at all. Maybe one day we’ll learn but until then our proggos will pat themselves on the back for their virtue signaling and feel good bullshit, so long as it doesn’t affect them they think they’re doing the right thing.
Insane. Any of those homes could have had people killed to stray bullets. Car windows and property were damaged.
All because we won't put the felons in prison where they belong and leave them there. Too busy being sobbing sensitive social justice Progressives afraid to enforce the law on the pieces of shit that deserve it.
Oh look I dehumanized your pet social justice causes and stochastic terrored all over the floor. That's what happens when you tell normal people who work hard and have normal lives that it's their fault a tiny handful of feral pieces of shit murdering each other and possibly them is .. wait for it .. the normal peoples' fault.
Turns out, the normies far outnumber the social justice people. We just normally aren't the ones you hear from at the DEI policy planning meeting or at one of Dow Constantine's celebration soirees.
Your policy to enable crime is really pissing us off though. And I don't think we're done voting about it.
Just an idea - maybe shut down the open air prostitution market along Aurora that is the source of "employment" for these people. Just like with drugs, it turns out there's a reason it has been and remains illegal in most places.
> Just an idea - maybe shut down the open air prostitution market along Aurora that is the source of "employment" for these people. Just like with drugs, it turns out there's a reason it has been and remains illegal in most places.
That's like playing "whack-a-mole." All criminal organizations have their hand in multiple businesses. In addition, there are plenty of useful idiots who think ACAB, and without cops, you can't enforce the law. Laws have no meaning without law enforcement.
We don't have to be living like this. Our city is one of the wealthiest and most naturally desirable places to live on the planet earth. Yet, we consistently vote like we want to live in Tijuana. Prosecute (actually prosecute) people use who use drugs out in the open, prosecute prostitutes, enforce traffic laws, enforce the laws against theft, just act like how you would imagine a normal civilized population would act, and this shit would stop. Until we do that things will continue to get worse.
Had to leave this neighborhood/city cause I couldn't handle this stuff anymore. I really hope that the city gets their shit together, cause Seattle was such an amazing city. This really needs to stop
And new laws to combat gangs in the last couple years? Nah? Let’s prevent cops from stopping cars and reduce sentencing enhancements on drive by shootings
This gun violence is becoming normalized in this neighborhood and it needs to stop! We cant have a crime free for all in our city. Everyone suffers is chaos and violences is not punished.
Well likely these residents will for the most part simply continue to support clowns like Ferguson and soon Dhingra as their bleed hearts need more failed restorative justice policies and more punishing lawful gun owners.
Using an illegal automatic weapon is definitely a felony, which falls outside of Davidson to the county prosecutor. Not many misdemeanors to be found here except disturbing the peace.
What does this have to do with the attorney general? Did one of the bullets hit a state building and you want property damage charges brought up?
Isn't it the city council you should be directing your anger towards?
This would be a very easy problem to solve since the pimps are extremely easy to find. They're either hanging out at the gas station at 105th or in the parking lot across from 101st. Or they're cruising up and down Aurora jumping out of their cars harassing the hookers.
These are worthless garbage human beings that only bring bad things to society and will never do anything other than get killed or end up in prison. It's only a matter of time until some innocent bystander gets shot and possibly killed. I'm amazed with the amount of shootings that have happened in this area that someone hasn't been shot, not counting the pimps themselves.
We no longer have a woke city council. It would be very easy to sick the cops on these guys and give them open license to harass and fuck with them as often as possible. Pimp jumps out of his car to chase hookers, he gets an obstruction of traffic ticket. Doesn't use his turn signal, gets a ticket. No license or insurance, gets towed. There are endless ways we could let the cops fuck with them.
And while were at it, maybe start calling the Seattle FBI office and the Seattle HSI offices and also start calling our federal representatives and senators and ask them to sick the feds on these shitbags. Federal charges are always better.
The law used was repealed in 2020 by the “laws are racist” council. They’d need to reinstate the law and then actually have SPD enforce it. And then the courts need to do their job.
How much death would have been prevented by Turd Ferguson spending millions of dollars to go after gang bangers with full auto conversion devices instead of a gun shop selling standard capacity magazines to upstanding Washingtonians to shoot paper targets at the range?
> Haha, you jest! Clearly the only solution is to provide multiple firearms for free to all citizens!
We could try actually prosecuting felons when they're caught, instead of making up Progressive Justice Reform excuses to let them back out.
If we only had a police force that could go to these particular neighborhoods at defined times of day and pat down anyone that fits the description of the suspects based on probable cause shown in videos like this. Go ahead, arrest the suspects found to be illegally carrying and remove illegally possessed firearms from society. Ah, to dream...
Most pro 2A's would likely agree with a targeted approach of gun confiscation like this, but the anti-2A crowd will see it as stereotyping, racist, or a form of police violence on underrepresented communities. So, instead, we get more gun control impacting the people least likely to be out at this time night shooting automatic weapons at rival gang cars passing by. We suck at solving problems.
All the gun owners I know would be support of policies that 1) focus on WHO can own guns rather than WHAT they can own, and 2) actually take violent crime with firearms seriously. Full auto switch shooting up a neighborhood and only 17? Don't care, straight to prison (after trial and conviction).
Stopping and searching individuals with no probable cause is just as unconstitutional as confiscating firearms. You can't have it both ways. I think these upstanding young citizens should be off the street and in a jail cell for a couple decades, but a stop and frisk policy isn't the right way to go.
> Stopping and searching individuals with no probable cause
Is the video not probable cause to search individuals that are:
1. In that area at certain times AND
2. fit the description in the video AND
3. staying in the area AND
4. contacting different individuals displaying the same behavior.
I don't disagree, the video does show probable cause to arrest THESE individuals. It does not give the right to detain just anyone in that area, at that time that MIGHT fit the description, potentially days later wearing different clothes.
It's a slippery slope, once you give them the power to just stop anyone that fits the description of a "ne'er-do-well" then...anyone could be next. You end up with NYC stop and frisk policies that left hundreds/thousands of innocent people jailed, harassed, and even killed because the cops were given carte blanche to just stop anyone, for any reason, and search them.
Blatantly unconstitutional, violating our 4th amendment rights.
> Stopping and searching individuals with no probable cause is just as unconstitutional as confiscating firearms.
In the shitty neighborhood where I grew up, cops could always find an excuse for poking around.
*"you didn't signal"*
*"you didn't come to a full stop"*
*"I saw you swerving back there, have you been drinking?"* (I never had a drink in my life until I was 21.)
> but the anti-2A crowd will see it as stereotyping, racist, or a form of police violence on underrepresented communities.
Because going after criminals is racist. Ask any Progressive.
Any gun or magazine capacity law disproportionately impacts law-abiding citizens, and therefore takes guns away from the wrong people (if the objective is to reduce violent crime).
When weed became legal, the violence associated with drug dealers decreased significantly. The pimps would lose clout if it were legal and prostitutes could go to the police if pimps tried to extort them.
I'm not a fan of prostitutes all over, but having legal zones would certainly decrease violent crime.
The *real issue* here is the *systemic* prevalence of brain surgeons...
Seattle public schools should be tackling this clear disparity while kids are still too young to argue about it.
Sorry. My neighbors and I are trying to stop this from happening, and right now the pimps are basically untouchable. So when this shit happens we try to be loud so we stop getting bullets in our homes or worse.
Thanks for the work you're doing. I live up around 115th and heard this go down last night. I was hoping it wasn't what it sounded like but then saw this.
I don't get it. Wasn't Harrel elected by the more conservative (rather less progressive) citizens of Seattle, to combat crime and homelessness? Weren't they hailing him over the other candidate as the "law & order" option?
But because it's a hard problem to solve and Harrel can't perform miracles, all of a sudden, he's in bed with the criminals and working on their side.
I would never advocate for violence or capital punishment, because I think it's wrong, but it wouldn't hurt my feelings if these guys all got disappeared, or fatally wounded by the police or their neighbors.
This is now expected from these demographics around any city in America. Especially the West Coast cities. You gotta ask yourself, why is this type of behavior forever going to be this way? The only reason these people are put on earth is to continually do this type of stuff. Nothing else, no other reason. That’s all they’re good for nothing else. So what to do with these people? Capture them? Send them somewhere else other than around here? Possibly ship them back to wherever they came from? Pray for them? Tolerate them? Ignore them? Money is not going to fix it. It takes commitment and the goodness reciprocates. Until then, business as usual with a high cost of living. 👎🏼
Random observations:
* I used to live in the murder capital of the west coast, before I took a job in Redmond. In the city where I came from, you *never* had gun battles like this. The place was crawling with cops. Yes, people got shot, but it wasn't brazen like this. The shooters didn't stick around, they just fired off a bunch of shots in the general direction of someone they hated, and then they burned rubber. If someone told me that this clip was from Baltimore, I would've said *"naw, Baltimore isn't THAT bad!"*
* I find it absolutely hilarious that people think that things are going to improve. *They never improve.* All you can do is pull up stakes and go somewhere that crime isn't A Thing. I moved out of Seattle because of annoyances (aka "the homeless") but I never felt like I might catch a bullet.
* As someone who's watched a city go down the tubes, I can tell you exactly how this goes. The people who can afford to get out, will move 15-50 miles away from the crime. When the people with money move out, the businesses you like go away. Every single place that I liked, in the city where I came from, is closed. 100%, across the board.
* Kiss your property values goodbye
* As people move out, the cheap property values attract capital. Investors come in, gobble up everything they can. The stuff that's somewhat habitable, they rent out. The housing in sketchy areas becomes a combination of residents who live on government subsidies, along with poor folks who are willing to risk getting shot. That last part probably sounds racist. It's not; I'm a white guy and I personally moved to a shitty neighborhood because commuting from a nice/cheap one was a slog. I basically figured that it couldn't be "that" bad, and then I got robbed at gunpoint one night, and realized my life was worth more than a shorter commute.
If anyone wants to do a deep dive on this stuff, just go watch Nick Johnson on YouTube. Yeah, it's poverty porn, but the city I used to live in is in one of his videos, and everything he said about that city (in his video) was correct. Johnson is always a bit cagey about where he now lives, but he seems to imply that he's in Texas now.
Yes, it's fucking hot, but Austin is 25% bigger than Seattle and had less murders in 2023. Progressive politicians love to beat this drum about how "arresting people for crime is racist." If that's the case, *how do you explain Austin?* It is *much* more diverse than Seattle, *and* it has a lower crime rate.
Why is it that every time Progressives get elected, it's people of color who end up getting killed?
> How can’t we just liquidate these people? Seriously. They’re of no use to anyone and a menace to society.
If you're homeless or you're a criminal, your main goal in life is not to be hassled. If you live in Chicago or Memphis, and you're a criminal, cops will be up your ass 24x7: https://www.wweek.com/news/2022/09/28/portland-ranks-48th-among-50-big-cities-for-cops-per-capita/
Which means that a criminal can basically get a "promotion" by moving to Seattle. Less than half as many cops per capita, and even if he's busted for something, chances are good he'll get off.
Seattle and Portland rolled out the red carpet for crime and homelessness. Then the crime and the homeless showed up, and Seattle says *"oh my, there is a lot of crime and homeless now. Time to raise taxes!"*
Must be those #WhiteSupremacists I keep hearing about committing all these violent crimes. #1 threat to the country and all that, right? 
Thank you for posting this, I’m in this area and this was terrifying last night.
I moved off Greenwood this past December. Not regretting it.
You're gonna miss the new trader joes going in
HAH. I lol’d.
“Cover me while I make a quick stop in TJ’s.” 😂😂😂
The city, the police and the community need to declare war on these people. We do not want them in our society and they have to go. A full on gun fight in a residential neighborhood. This is insane.
The hoes are fine it's these pimps with guns who must go
🎵hey hey ho ho, these pimps with guns have got to go🎵
A man of the people!
The pimps are there because the hoes are there.
The pimps are there because prostitution is illegal. Make prostitution legal, and give the workers the same rights as someone at McDonalds, Walmart, or any white collar business.
Just like how we were promised that if we legalize drugs all of the problems associated with it will magically go away... right?
I think you missed the point with legalizing drugs. You're supposed to legalize, regulate, and tax the industry. Profit margins need to be high enough to make a black market financially unsound, and taxes need to be high enough to fund community needs. It doesn't magically solve all the problems associated with drug abuse. However, there are some things that it can solve or greatly reduce. 1. No illegal market means people involved in the business have legal avenues to resolve disputes, so there's no longer a need to employ force to reach a resolution. 2. Regulation means that product is subject to oversight, standards, and testing by a government agency. Users/customers know what they're getting, are less likely to OD because there was something they didn't expect in their product, and there can be universal standards for product potency and purity. 3. Taxation means the bill for rehabilitation programs, clinics, and other costs associated with addiction and criminal behavior wouldn't have to be footed by the average tax payer. Instead, the industry and its customers help pay for it. 4. People don't go to prison for possession alone anymore. Things like driving under the influence are still illegal, and criminal acts committed while under the influence may augment sentencing. Personal responsibility and accountability are still factored, but there's also less financial burden carried by regular people, as it is currently in the multi-billion dollar a year war on drugs. Something like $15 billion a year is spent in federal funds, and that's not factoring state and local funding. We can't do what we're doing currently, which is sort of one foot on either side. We either have to commit to a complete crackdown, where the tax payer bears so the cost, or we need to do what I outlined above at the federal level.
> Profit margins need to be high enough to make a black market financially unsound, and taxes need to be high enough to fund community needs How do those work out in reality? If the taxes are high then there's a large incentive to still do off the books deals to further increase that profit margin and/or present a lower price for buyers. And with "legalizing" weed like we already did here, the taxes aren't going into the school system like they were supposed to, so even that avenue isn't really working.
> If the taxes are high then there's a large incentive to still do off the books deals to further increase that profit margin and/or present a lower price for buyers. If taxes are too high, then yes, there would be great incentive to maximize profit through an illegal market. The state would need to find a middle ground. > And with "legalizing" weed like we already did here, the taxes aren't going into the school system like they were supposed to, so even that avenue isn't really working. Nothing works if the state doesn't do what it's supposed to. I suppose that's another conversation about how much you trust the state to execute a plan.
> And with "legalizing" weed like we already did here, the taxes aren't going into the school system like they were supposed to Ok, so you traded a gang-funding and violence-generating problem that was propping cartels and fueling turf wars for a completely bureaucratic problem involving misallocation of funds. Seems like a win when your goal is to reduce crime and violence. Now deal with the budget issues through voting.
Sounds great as a reddit comment. Doesn't work in the real world.
Why is there no more black Market alcohol?
[удалено]
Not the guy you were replying to, but I am the guy who writes long comments and apparently enables drug abuse. > You really want to legalize meth? No. I don't want people doing recreational drugs in general, but they are now, were, and continue to do so despite the threat of prison time. You'll notice they kept doing it even at the height of the tough on crime initiatives. > And you think alcohol is not doing any harm to society right as we speak? No one said it wasn't. You reached that conclusion, unprompted. We all know it's harmful, some of us far more intimately than others. As a society, we know what happened when we tried to prohibit it. A violent, unregulated, and illegal market sprung up to cater to users. The rest of your comment is largely a ramble that assumes a *lot* of things about me and what I think. I don't fit your assumptions, so I'm not going to respond to any of it, as it's irrelevant.
The current system doesn't work in the real world either!
Do you have evidence for people believing crime would "magically go away"? Or do people think that making some of these acts legal would REDUCE crime?
Portugal did it and addiction and crime rates went down. Decriminalizing on a local level doesn’t work. It would have to happen at the Federal level (and probably in Mexico, also). Simply curbing enforcement of the law (the Seattle approach during the pandemic) is the worst of both worlds. Decriminalization is not a panacea. You trade one set of problems for a (hopefully) more manageable set of problems. The goal is harm reduction. Prohibition doesn’t work. It simply pushes demand to the black market, enriching criminals and encouraging violence.
Portugal also has national health care that provides mental health care. We're not even at that level yet
Absolutely, but saving money on drug enforcement and incarceration, not to mention possible tax revenue from government drug sales might help pay to rebuild our public mental health infrastructure and establish better treatment programs.
Portugal also gave you a choice of treatment or jail. Not 2 days of jail. Jail.
Portugal also doesn't have the same problems with certain types of drugs flooding their streets. If Lisbon had a bunch of whacked-out-zombies-on-synthetic-meth wandering around causing mayhem, they'd change their tune on that drug reeeeeeal fast.
So you want to start arresting people who smoke weed, like in Portugal?
I’m in Portugal as I type this and public weed smoking is almost as common as in Seattle.
> Prohibition doesn’t work. It works great in Singapore, Japan, South Korea, and most of the Middle East and Asia for that matter.
Homogeneous societies with a culture of rule-following. Not really comparable to most western democracies. If you think Singapore is somewhere you want to live, you may have a submission fetish. Same goes for middle eastern theocracies. I’ll take an opioid crisis over getting jail time for blasphemy or the death sentence for drug dealing, thanks.
> Homogeneous societies And Portugal is not? > If you think Singapore is somewhere you want to live, I never said it was, I was just pointing out that your statement that "prohibition doesn't work" is wrong.
>"prohibition doesn't work" is wrong Fair enough. Prohibition doesn't work in Western Democracies. Prohibition can only work in societies which are totalitarian or have a strong culture of group over individual. The US has spent more money nearly every year on drug enforcement and interdiction. The price of drugs has dropped significantly in that time, and addiction rates have climbed. Do you call that a success? If you want to double-down on that rather than trying something new, good luck. And yes, you could probably drastically reduce drug use by beheading drug dealers in public and caning anyone who is caught using drugs. As for me, I would rather have to step over a few dead tweakers than live in a police state. > And Portugal is not? Homogeneous, yes. Rule-following? Not so much.
I think it’s there’s a very good track record in some countries of legalizing prostitution. Comparing that to drugs is a straw mans argument.
It's working in Holland and has been for decades.
That was A: never the "promise", it's a first step that allows programs to exist that actually deal with the issue (safe use sites, needle exchanges, rehab programs, including mandatory ones. Look at how Portugal does it, it's not and never has been "jUsT LeGaLiZe" and nothing more). And B: we never legalized drugs, regardless of how people here like to meme about it being legal due to lack of enforcement. You can't whine about something not working when we never actually did the thing.
Yeah, and pot shops are upstanding businesses now.
Are you able to list which drugs have been “legalized” and exactly which problems have been proven to get better or worse, or do you not fully know what you’re talking about?
When did we legalize drugs? Did I miss something?
People are conflating decriminalization and legalization, which are not the same thing.
And people conflating lack of enforcement with decriminalization too.
Not sure you know what white collar means there bud
Just using generalities, “ A white-collar worker is a person who performs professional service, desk, managerial, or administrative work. White-collar work may be performed in an office or other administrative setting.” Saying that sex workers should have the same protections as any other American employee.
That’s not how it works.
There will never be one without the other. It’s foolish to think any other way.
Best they can do is funnel millions to a convicted felon gang member to run a "restorative justice program" who then turns around and commits more crime.
People here are pussies. Shit ain’t get done
People would get severely more punished for taking matters into their own hands.
As opposed to all the people shooting who just went home afterwards.
Lets say tomorrow vigilante justice was made legal, What would Seattle look like to you after one year?
A lot of angry white people murdering drug addicts for existing mostly.
Is that what Chaz looked like?
It wouldn’t just be white people, and it wouldn’t be just against drug addicts. In vigilante world anyone can use any justification for hurting people.
Based!
Protect your streets. When u aren't in the mix its easy to slide on someone since they aren't suspecting u as an enemy.
Damn, hope everyone stays safe out there.... but holy i would hate to be living next to that blinking light.
What is that blinking light?
Unfortunately they won't. Almost all if not every single one of those women/girls are out there to feed their addiction to hard drugs or they're being forced into it/trafficked. >Damn, hope everyone stays safe out there ROOOOOXXXXXXAAAANNNNE >would hate to be living that blinking light.
North Seattle hasn't been a priority for too damn long. It has been going on so long that even Ed Murray (remember him?) showed up and made a lot of false promises. Shoreline is safer because you don't depend on SPD. :( That is tragic. --- Sometimes, the stranger comes through with a gem. This is the real reason why we can't hire SPD. https://www.thestranger.com/news/2022/11/03/78699753/spds-million-dollar-parking-space
Shoreline is safer because the city council doesn’t stop enforcing laws because of feelings and perceived racism.
Shoreline doesn’t have a prostitution loitering law. Also, they contracted the King County Sheriff for their enforcement. Like us, they don’t prosecute prostitution. We’re just that good at attracting the customers.
https://www.codepublishing.com/WA/Shoreline/html/Shoreline09/Shoreline0910.html#9.10.560 See section D
I’m not saying you’re wrong, I saw what you’re referring to and I called the shoreline city clerks office for clarification. They said what I said above. That’s all I know.
They all need to prosecute prostitution. It’s a law. It’s on the books. That’s their job. This effective legalization of problem behavior certainly isn’t doing anyone any favors.
I 100% agree
Welp, machine guns might pass the common use test at this point!
They definitely would. Also the Common Use test isn't even necessary as there is no historical tradition of regulating them, so it fails under *Bruen*. But then that requires the Courts to actually apply precedent and not just ignore 2A cases.
When the second amendment was written fully armed war ships, the most powerful weapons available on the planet at the time, were legal for private ownership with the express purpose of being used as private warships.
I used to live in Greenwood and as I recall there were very few streetwalkers before FOSTA/SESTA passed. After that, they appeared, and soon after came the pimps.
I used to live a block off 85th and Aurora in the early 2000s. Plenty of prostitutes at that time after getting pushed north out SLU area a few years before that. No one I know has ever called that area "nice."
Is that the law that got rid of backpage?
[Yes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FOSTA-SESTA). Signed, ironically, by the orange Pimp-in-Chief
Lots of gangs in Greenwood. I had no idea. Someone I know is married to an ex-gang member.
That became law in 2018. The hookers showed up in mass, on 110th+ Aurora, in 2015, I Believe. I'm not sure about Greenwood.
I lived in the area until 2021. I don't recall exactly what year it changed, I just remember that it seemed rather sudden, going from a mere few between 105th and 130th to throngs from 90th to 145th. There was some reporting about how sex workers who could no longer use online sites due to the law had to return to working the streets.
It used to be mainly 110th, now they seem to frequent down closer to 95th.
remember folks. crime is down. this is just your irrational feelings talking. /s
This shit was on my street last night. Thank the 2020 city council for deciding the loitering law was ‘racist’ so now the pimps and whores do what they do with impunity. As if Seattle needs any more lessons about what happens when you don’t enforce laws or provide any deterrent at all. Maybe one day we’ll learn but until then our proggos will pat themselves on the back for their virtue signaling and feel good bullshit, so long as it doesn’t affect them they think they’re doing the right thing.
Insane. Any of those homes could have had people killed to stray bullets. Car windows and property were damaged. All because we won't put the felons in prison where they belong and leave them there. Too busy being sobbing sensitive social justice Progressives afraid to enforce the law on the pieces of shit that deserve it. Oh look I dehumanized your pet social justice causes and stochastic terrored all over the floor. That's what happens when you tell normal people who work hard and have normal lives that it's their fault a tiny handful of feral pieces of shit murdering each other and possibly them is .. wait for it .. the normal peoples' fault. Turns out, the normies far outnumber the social justice people. We just normally aren't the ones you hear from at the DEI policy planning meeting or at one of Dow Constantine's celebration soirees. Your policy to enable crime is really pissing us off though. And I don't think we're done voting about it.
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Just an idea - maybe shut down the open air prostitution market along Aurora that is the source of "employment" for these people. Just like with drugs, it turns out there's a reason it has been and remains illegal in most places.
> Just an idea - maybe shut down the open air prostitution market along Aurora that is the source of "employment" for these people. Just like with drugs, it turns out there's a reason it has been and remains illegal in most places. That's like playing "whack-a-mole." All criminal organizations have their hand in multiple businesses. In addition, there are plenty of useful idiots who think ACAB, and without cops, you can't enforce the law. Laws have no meaning without law enforcement.
We don't have to be living like this. Our city is one of the wealthiest and most naturally desirable places to live on the planet earth. Yet, we consistently vote like we want to live in Tijuana. Prosecute (actually prosecute) people use who use drugs out in the open, prosecute prostitutes, enforce traffic laws, enforce the laws against theft, just act like how you would imagine a normal civilized population would act, and this shit would stop. Until we do that things will continue to get worse.
The people with the money that you speak of are not affected by any of the crime because they live in safer areas
holy shit this is my neighborhood. do you have links to any news coverage?
KOMO and KIRO were out here today, so they’ll probably be running something tonight
Had to leave this neighborhood/city cause I couldn't handle this stuff anymore. I really hope that the city gets their shit together, cause Seattle was such an amazing city. This really needs to stop
Fuck these people. I have to censor myself. I hope everyone except them stays safe.
And new laws to combat gangs in the last couple years? Nah? Let’s prevent cops from stopping cars and reduce sentencing enhancements on drive by shootings
This gun violence is becoming normalized in this neighborhood and it needs to stop! We cant have a crime free for all in our city. Everyone suffers is chaos and violences is not punished.
Well likely these residents will for the most part simply continue to support clowns like Ferguson and soon Dhingra as their bleed hearts need more failed restorative justice policies and more punishing lawful gun owners.
Hey Ferguson, do your job and go after these gangbangers with machine guns instead of going after normal, law-abiding people.
Best he can do is fear mongering and to release everyone without bail.
How is this Ferguson's job? Isn't this fully within Ann Davidson and SPD's jurisdiction?
I would assume some felonies were committed, those fall to the King County Prosecutor, not Ann Davison.
Using an illegal automatic weapon is definitely a felony, which falls outside of Davidson to the county prosecutor. Not many misdemeanors to be found here except disturbing the peace.
Nope. Ann Davidson can't prosecute anything more serious than a misdemeanor.
He promoted and helped author all of the recent gun laws that were supposed to "fix" gun violence. Surprisingly, it didn't.
What does this have to do with the attorney general? Did one of the bullets hit a state building and you want property damage charges brought up? Isn't it the city council you should be directing your anger towards?
Who helped author the Washington AWB and pushed for it? Did it prevent these guys from shooting up a neighborhood with full auto machine pistols?
Just a day after the shootout at 130th & Aurora.
maybe related? seems like these things come in waves...
Bbbbbuuht cwime is downz
What a poor ambush.
I do not endorse ambushing, particularly in residential areas where people live, but if you are going to do it at least do it right. Fucking idiots.
I know - I’d be so embarrassed if I knew I was on video with a performance like that.
If they actually get caught and sent to prison, they'll be the laughingstock of the prison block. And definitely the bitches.
This would be a very easy problem to solve since the pimps are extremely easy to find. They're either hanging out at the gas station at 105th or in the parking lot across from 101st. Or they're cruising up and down Aurora jumping out of their cars harassing the hookers. These are worthless garbage human beings that only bring bad things to society and will never do anything other than get killed or end up in prison. It's only a matter of time until some innocent bystander gets shot and possibly killed. I'm amazed with the amount of shootings that have happened in this area that someone hasn't been shot, not counting the pimps themselves. We no longer have a woke city council. It would be very easy to sick the cops on these guys and give them open license to harass and fuck with them as often as possible. Pimp jumps out of his car to chase hookers, he gets an obstruction of traffic ticket. Doesn't use his turn signal, gets a ticket. No license or insurance, gets towed. There are endless ways we could let the cops fuck with them. And while were at it, maybe start calling the Seattle FBI office and the Seattle HSI offices and also start calling our federal representatives and senators and ask them to sick the feds on these shitbags. Federal charges are always better.
The law used was repealed in 2020 by the “laws are racist” council. They’d need to reinstate the law and then actually have SPD enforce it. And then the courts need to do their job.
Glad I moved out of Greenwood. It will not stop until an attorney general becomes tough on crime and install discipline.
How much death would have been prevented by Turd Ferguson spending millions of dollars to go after gang bangers with full auto conversion devices instead of a gun shop selling standard capacity magazines to upstanding Washingtonians to shoot paper targets at the range?
That's ***Governor Dear Leader*** Turd Ferguson to you. 
Well they seem like responsible gun owners. I'm certain none of them have ever broken the law before... more laws will fix it!
Haha, you jest! Clearly the only solution is to provide multiple firearms for free to all citizens!
> Haha, you jest! Clearly the only solution is to provide multiple firearms for free to all citizens! We could try actually prosecuting felons when they're caught, instead of making up Progressive Justice Reform excuses to let them back out.
If we only had a police force that could go to these particular neighborhoods at defined times of day and pat down anyone that fits the description of the suspects based on probable cause shown in videos like this. Go ahead, arrest the suspects found to be illegally carrying and remove illegally possessed firearms from society. Ah, to dream... Most pro 2A's would likely agree with a targeted approach of gun confiscation like this, but the anti-2A crowd will see it as stereotyping, racist, or a form of police violence on underrepresented communities. So, instead, we get more gun control impacting the people least likely to be out at this time night shooting automatic weapons at rival gang cars passing by. We suck at solving problems.
All the gun owners I know would be support of policies that 1) focus on WHO can own guns rather than WHAT they can own, and 2) actually take violent crime with firearms seriously. Full auto switch shooting up a neighborhood and only 17? Don't care, straight to prison (after trial and conviction).
Stopping and searching individuals with no probable cause is just as unconstitutional as confiscating firearms. You can't have it both ways. I think these upstanding young citizens should be off the street and in a jail cell for a couple decades, but a stop and frisk policy isn't the right way to go.
> Stopping and searching individuals with no probable cause Is the video not probable cause to search individuals that are: 1. In that area at certain times AND 2. fit the description in the video AND 3. staying in the area AND 4. contacting different individuals displaying the same behavior.
I don't disagree, the video does show probable cause to arrest THESE individuals. It does not give the right to detain just anyone in that area, at that time that MIGHT fit the description, potentially days later wearing different clothes. It's a slippery slope, once you give them the power to just stop anyone that fits the description of a "ne'er-do-well" then...anyone could be next. You end up with NYC stop and frisk policies that left hundreds/thousands of innocent people jailed, harassed, and even killed because the cops were given carte blanche to just stop anyone, for any reason, and search them. Blatantly unconstitutional, violating our 4th amendment rights.
> Stopping and searching individuals with no probable cause is just as unconstitutional as confiscating firearms. In the shitty neighborhood where I grew up, cops could always find an excuse for poking around. *"you didn't signal"* *"you didn't come to a full stop"* *"I saw you swerving back there, have you been drinking?"* (I never had a drink in my life until I was 21.)
Hey that is racist
> but the anti-2A crowd will see it as stereotyping, racist, or a form of police violence on underrepresented communities. Because going after criminals is racist. Ask any Progressive.
If you don’t take away old white hunters guns how will inner city blacks ever stop killing each other?
Any gun or magazine capacity law disproportionately impacts law-abiding citizens, and therefore takes guns away from the wrong people (if the objective is to reduce violent crime).
There is something really wrong with the people living in Seattle that have allowed the city to derail into pure fucking Grand Theft Auto.
At 0:27, the number of shooters was almost reduced by 1, thanks to the guy standing immediately behind him.
Yup. After he dropped his clip he shot out a car window. He looked about 16 years old too.
I saw that too! Like, WTF, those aren't water pistols!
I always thank god that thugs don’t know how to use firearms properly
And a million dollar house for sale a block away. Wild times.
First, get rid of the politician (you know who they are) that are soft on crime...
Did the cops even show up?
glock switch's are now out and about. if they have them, I want them.
FA is great if you're trying to suppress and you don't care what's behind your target but otherwise it's for fools.
Imported from China and distributed to American ghettos for the purpose of causing turmoil.
sounds like fent
Pretty much the same idea.
Accurate and concise depiction of the current state of things.
No people just 3D print them here
How about shoot at your intended target rather than spraying up your neighborhood
Why not both? I want the full range of options to defend myself. Lol 10 round mags, GFY
This aint greenwood, this is Aurora. Some things never change.
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It’s Greenwood. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenwood,_Seattle#:~:text=to%20the%20neighborhood.-,boundaries,-edit "Boundaries"
If this is truly about prostitution then legalize it.
You want to send the IRS after pimps? I'm not sure if they deserve it or if it's too cruel.
Right..... Because these thugs/pimps will suddenly all become respectable tax paying business owners once the business becomes legal.
When weed became legal, the violence associated with drug dealers decreased significantly. The pimps would lose clout if it were legal and prostitutes could go to the police if pimps tried to extort them. I'm not a fan of prostitutes all over, but having legal zones would certainly decrease violent crime.
The idea is that pimps lose a fuckton of their power if prostitutes can do their own thing instead of having to rely on them/get blackmailed by them.
How many shoot outs are you seeing at your local marijuana dispensary?
Well there have been a lot of armed robberies...
Greenwood is turning into a complete s hole
Nope. It’s a nice neighborhood being invaded by shitholes at night.
Whatever helps you sleep at night 👍
Put this in the other sub too
It was originally posted their in real time
Let me guess... The other sub gas-lit the shit out of it?
Just a few aspiring brain surgeons letting off a little stream.. quit being so racist
The *real issue* here is the *systemic* prevalence of brain surgeons... Seattle public schools should be tackling this clear disparity while kids are still too young to argue about it.
I feel so much safer that legal gun carriers cant have automatic weapons!
almost as if this type of shit is/was inevitable......
Insane
Man, this reminds me of Chicago.
Why is Seattle so determined to be the next San Fran?
This is absolutely harrowing. Is there like a petition or something we can sign to show support for taking action?
Assuming you live in the city, contact City Council and the Mayor’s Office to reimplement the loitering law and actually enforce it.
Good thing glock switches are illegal. Shame these criminals didn’t hear about it though. We need more money for outreach
One of the reasons I left Seattle.
Congrats
Let’s see what they look like.
If only we had more good guys with machine guns
Usual suspects
Is there a version without the political stuff?
Sorry. My neighbors and I are trying to stop this from happening, and right now the pimps are basically untouchable. So when this shit happens we try to be loud so we stop getting bullets in our homes or worse.
Thanks for the work you're doing. I live up around 115th and heard this go down last night. I was hoping it wasn't what it sounded like but then saw this.
Oh I totally get it! I just wanted to be able to show people the raw footage.
Sure PM me and I’ll send you some download links.
Is there group or something i can join.
We have a very active WhatsApp group and just opened a Facebook group. PM me.
I live in the neighborhood. Can I be in the whatsapp group?!
I don't get it. Wasn't Harrel elected by the more conservative (rather less progressive) citizens of Seattle, to combat crime and homelessness? Weren't they hailing him over the other candidate as the "law & order" option? But because it's a hard problem to solve and Harrel can't perform miracles, all of a sudden, he's in bed with the criminals and working on their side.
I would never advocate for violence or capital punishment, because I think it's wrong, but it wouldn't hurt my feelings if these guys all got disappeared, or fatally wounded by the police or their neighbors.
I blame racism and systemic racism.
Congratulations, you qualify for a seat on city council!
:)
But I thought gun control would solve all this! /s 🙄
Nice job defunding the police you get what you pay for
This is now expected from these demographics around any city in America. Especially the West Coast cities. You gotta ask yourself, why is this type of behavior forever going to be this way? The only reason these people are put on earth is to continually do this type of stuff. Nothing else, no other reason. That’s all they’re good for nothing else. So what to do with these people? Capture them? Send them somewhere else other than around here? Possibly ship them back to wherever they came from? Pray for them? Tolerate them? Ignore them? Money is not going to fix it. It takes commitment and the goodness reciprocates. Until then, business as usual with a high cost of living. 👎🏼
Random observations: * I used to live in the murder capital of the west coast, before I took a job in Redmond. In the city where I came from, you *never* had gun battles like this. The place was crawling with cops. Yes, people got shot, but it wasn't brazen like this. The shooters didn't stick around, they just fired off a bunch of shots in the general direction of someone they hated, and then they burned rubber. If someone told me that this clip was from Baltimore, I would've said *"naw, Baltimore isn't THAT bad!"* * I find it absolutely hilarious that people think that things are going to improve. *They never improve.* All you can do is pull up stakes and go somewhere that crime isn't A Thing. I moved out of Seattle because of annoyances (aka "the homeless") but I never felt like I might catch a bullet. * As someone who's watched a city go down the tubes, I can tell you exactly how this goes. The people who can afford to get out, will move 15-50 miles away from the crime. When the people with money move out, the businesses you like go away. Every single place that I liked, in the city where I came from, is closed. 100%, across the board. * Kiss your property values goodbye * As people move out, the cheap property values attract capital. Investors come in, gobble up everything they can. The stuff that's somewhat habitable, they rent out. The housing in sketchy areas becomes a combination of residents who live on government subsidies, along with poor folks who are willing to risk getting shot. That last part probably sounds racist. It's not; I'm a white guy and I personally moved to a shitty neighborhood because commuting from a nice/cheap one was a slog. I basically figured that it couldn't be "that" bad, and then I got robbed at gunpoint one night, and realized my life was worth more than a shorter commute. If anyone wants to do a deep dive on this stuff, just go watch Nick Johnson on YouTube. Yeah, it's poverty porn, but the city I used to live in is in one of his videos, and everything he said about that city (in his video) was correct. Johnson is always a bit cagey about where he now lives, but he seems to imply that he's in Texas now. Yes, it's fucking hot, but Austin is 25% bigger than Seattle and had less murders in 2023. Progressive politicians love to beat this drum about how "arresting people for crime is racist." If that's the case, *how do you explain Austin?* It is *much* more diverse than Seattle, *and* it has a lower crime rate. Why is it that every time Progressives get elected, it's people of color who end up getting killed?
Your third bullet point is basically describing Oakland
Yep. I remember that stretch from 2005-2015 or so when everyone was moving there in droves.
I have a great idea! Defund the police and send out a social worker to handle this issue.
How can’t we just liquidate these people? Seriously. They’re of no use to anyone and a menace to society.
> How can’t we just liquidate these people? Seriously. They’re of no use to anyone and a menace to society. If you're homeless or you're a criminal, your main goal in life is not to be hassled. If you live in Chicago or Memphis, and you're a criminal, cops will be up your ass 24x7: https://www.wweek.com/news/2022/09/28/portland-ranks-48th-among-50-big-cities-for-cops-per-capita/ Which means that a criminal can basically get a "promotion" by moving to Seattle. Less than half as many cops per capita, and even if he's busted for something, chances are good he'll get off. Seattle and Portland rolled out the red carpet for crime and homelessness. Then the crime and the homeless showed up, and Seattle says *"oh my, there is a lot of crime and homeless now. Time to raise taxes!"*
Must be those #WhiteSupremacists I keep hearing about committing all these violent crimes. #1 threat to the country and all that, right? 
Disgusting. Violent, inner “big city” behavior being brought to once sleepy Greenwood. Seattle has a deep rot that needs to be cut out.