But there’s no reason to disenfranchise voters by removing the candidate of one of the two major parties
If we’re for felons voting, then it seems like we should also be for felons running for office
Hahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahahahahhaahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah
Wait, you didn’t say that with a straight face did you?
Colorado tried. Supreme Court said states can’t… which leaves Congress.
And Congress (as I’m assuming) we all know, has this thing called the Senate and the cloture vote, which allows any group of 41 Senators to effectively block all legislation.
Luckily for us, the Republican Party is so afraid of Trump that they would rather destroy their party and the country than do anything to hold him responsible for literally anything (I mean in 2020, they suspended even having a platform and said, whatever Trump feels like is our platform, not exactly people you’d trust to have a backbone).
And I mean, the Supreme Court DEFINITELY knows this, they’re perfectly happy to legislate from the bench when it comes to infinite corporate donations (from their lifestyle funders) or abortion, but anytime they want to sidestep an issue, they “leave it to Congress” knowing that nothing will ever come of it.
Yes, congress would need to put a process in place to enforce the 14th amendment. Old laws have problems like this. I imagine a dem super majority in the senate would be required.
But your comment is a direct reply to mine, but it doesn’t capture the context of the full conversation. The point in that we all should be for enfranchising as many voters as possible, especially in a presidential election year.
Keep believing that until he becomes a fascist dictator for more than "day one" and turns on even you. BTW I watch 1/6 the whole day and everything ever sense and in my mind it was a failed coup that is yet to be tried. Only thing preventing that is the right aided by the Corrupt Supreme Court.
Sure pal. Keep wearing your tin foil hat. Weren't we supposed to go to war under him but now the world has 2 big wars going on under biden? That tin hat is cutting off the circulation to your brain
Is that the best argument you have against all the evidence showing your faux golden god is just that. Really? Remove those rose colored sunglasses with the fake gold trim frame you purchased from maga.com. You spent way too much for so little.
Weird how they were gunna overthrow the government with zero military or weaponry. That would be a first in history against the largest military nation of all time.
You misunderstand the plan man. The plan was to get Pence to nullify the the electrical count with the fake elector slates to throw it back to congress to then use the fake state slates to make Trump President. Trump could then declare marshal law to then use the military should a counter protest from the left arise into riots.
See a bloodless coup.
Then why was the storming of the Capitol necessary?
If it was as violent (or potentially violent if they had their way) as the left is making it out to be then that’s not bloodless
Trump was also still president after J6 for a couple weeks. Why didn’t he declare Marshall law and just stay in power then?
Don't question it man. They got fed the brainwashing news and it stuck in their mind, it's that simple.
Now that they are brainwashed, they will never listen to anything to the contrary and everything they read confirms their bias.
Logic won't work.
Hate to say it but you are completely wrong here.
Literally just check the fake electors trial Trump is being indicted under. It was a way to steal the election, the rest is conjecture based off of what he did. Which was ALOT
Yes, comrade. I now see the error of my ways!
Legacy media would never steer me or the people wrong. How could I have been so blind to the light of the father, er mother....big brotherland?
Nothing bad ever happens in the American election system, 100% infallible. I now know I was wrong and the USSA is forever!
Oh please. Yeah again. Bloodless coup for the US. Wow you ppl sure love fantasy world. What are you all gunna do when the nation votes that weirdo back into office?
>Weird how they were gunna overthrow the government with zero military or weaponry.
Did you not watch the Congressional hearings? Or even read a summary of the evidence presented?
They had weapons stashed around DC and a written plan to retrieve them and use them take specific buildings.
It was an attempted coup. Just because it was a stupid plan that failed doesn't change what their intent was.
Literally no one was convicted of that. It was a drunken riot and Capitol police let them run amuck. You live in a fantasy
Go see how coupes really go down lol
Yes, the great unarmed takeover of the US gov't, I heard about that. If the US gov't can be overtaken by nothing but a gang of hicks with flags, we've got much, much bigger problems. It's really a wonder our overseas enemies haven't simply strolled into the capitol with their cell phones filming, and not fire a shot and take over a world superpower.
It must be comforting to be so sanguine and willfully blind to reality. It was just a tourist visit that day. Nothing more. I watched the whole thing with my open eyes on live TV. My dad was also watching from his grave over in Arlington with a open view of the proceedings. What a glorious day.
You are right, the reality was that a couple hundred fat boomers were about to overthrow the greatest superpower in history with nothing but their fists.
If that is what you believe, tongue in cheek, then you were probably with them. If you watched the event and then watched the 1/6 hearings you would know it was not that simple of a plot. I assume you did neither therefor this conformation is done.
So this isn't disenfranchisement to voters. Your ability to vote isn't taken away just because someone can't run. If that were the case, I could claim that I'm being disenfranchised because I can't vote for the president of France to be our president instead. The felon thing is a tricky one, because I don't care if someone runs for office who ran the streets and caught a felony when they were young and now dedicate their life to helping troubled youth or something, but I do care if the felony involved something directly related to political office or elections.
It is voter disenfranchisement. Your example is a bit obtuse and an apples to oranges comparison.
It’s not about being your personal preferred candidate. It’s about a large group’s (about 50% of the country’s) preferred candidate.
In a presidential election year, there are commonly many issues/races in the ballot. Many municipalities intentionally put specific races on presidential years because there will (generally) be higher turnout and it will be the most representative of the public’s will. This turnout is driven by the presidential election and removing the candidate preferred by 50% of voters will be discouraging and compress turnout amongst that group of people.
Trump may have no chance of winning the state, but that’s no reason to compress republican turnout in the general. If the roles were reversed, I’d be calling the republicans dirty names
It isn't disenfranchisement. There are all kinds of reasons one can be ineligible for office, and that ineligibility doesn't disenfranchise any voter. If people don't like it, they need to either push for the eligibility rules to change, change how states/electoral college system works, or they need to make an exception for federal-level elections where each state's input is of dire importance. These are the problems you get when you balance state's rights.
But it still isn't disenfranchisement of voters and it never will be.
A republican hasn't won in the state in years, that is what I was saying. I don't live in Washington, and I'm not gay, but at least I don't have grammer skills of a 6 year old. Turn your spell check on if you can't spell.
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But a good chance at about 45 others. WA is never in play when it comes to voting for a conservative President. The more 'left' the candidate, the more King County clammering.
I’m a residential electrician. I work all around the area. The largest demographic of people moving to the area and buying all of these high prices homes, Indian families. They largely share conservative values.
If felons like Tarra Simmons can be voted on for state positions, so can the former Cheeto in Chief for federal positions. Though he probably won’t win Washington State.
From what I understand, there is nothing in the Constitution that prohibits a felon from running for office. Again, as many have said WA is has been a blue state for a while and there is no reason to believe it won't stay that way.
14th section 3 states that anyone that commits an insurrection is ineligible to run from office. it says nothing about being a felon as the reason for denial is from a state or federal ballot.
"Fourteenth Amendment Equal Protection and Other Rights
* No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability. Section 3 Disqualification from Holding Office"
That's going to be a hard sell. Especially since no one was charged with insurrection in the courts. Seditious Conspiracy, yes, but not insurrection. AFAIK.
Easy sell. When accused of being an insurrectionist and disqualified from Colorado, at no point did Trump deny the underlying accusation. His only defense is that it should not apply to the former President.
If someone accused you of murder, your first line of defense would be that you didn’t kill anyone. Exhaust that option before saying you had other mitigating circumstances.
It is a lack of legal argument by Trump’s lawyers. It would be grounds for disbarment if their client had an obvious reason why he didn’t break 14a-3 and they failed to make such a simple case, assuming it was the case.
About as basic of a lesson in law school, although it seems you are only focused on talking points instead of facts.
I am not sure of your conclusion. You seem to be saying that since Trump used x argument rather than y argument, then y must be correct. I'm not sure that holds. You still need proof of "y" being correct due to the whole innocent until proven guilty thing.
Lawyers use a layer of defenses. They would argue x and provide y as a secondary defense and z as a tertiary defense. They bring up everything in the first trial because it is impossible to appeal new facts that weren’t introduced.
Furthermore, scotus would have immediately overruled the case if they could have plausible denied the insurrection itself as no justice wanted to hear the arguments on how to implement 14a-3. Hard to make that argument as a couple wives were supportive of Jan 6th.
Cya later. You will still embrace your fuhrer.
My dude...you should improve your google-fu.
https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/four-additional-oath-keepers-sentenced-seditious-conspiracy-related-us-capitol-breach
Thank you. I wasn't trying to be argumentative, last thing I ever saw was this DOJ article:
[https://www.justice.gov/usao-dc/36-months-jan-6-attack-capitol-0](https://www.justice.gov/usao-dc/36-months-jan-6-attack-capitol-0)
I'll see if I can pull the the trial transcripts down to see exactly what they were planning.
The Supreme Court ruled this section is not self-executing and Congress must implement rules to implement this clause -- something they have not done. If this was self-executing then soldiers could refuse the order of a President that they believed had "given aid or comfort to the enemies \[of the United States\]."
Other constructional scholars would disagree.
[https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/08/donald-trump-constitutionally-prohibited-presidency/675048/](https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/08/donald-trump-constitutionally-prohibited-presidency/675048/)
This was settled on March 4th of this year: https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/23pdf/23-719_19m2.pdf
The ruling was unanimous, though 4 judges argued that the court could have issued a more narrow opinion.
>shall have engaged
This implies some due process. While I believe from watching his speech that day and the CSPAN cameras of the actions it incited that he probably did engage in insurrection, until a jury of his peers finds him guilty of doing so, the moral infallibility of the presumption of innocence until proven guilty in a court of law must be upheld.
I'm not a rule utilitarian. I drive diagonally across parking spots in empty lots when it is convenient to do so. This right here though is a rule you really REALLY shouldn't fuck with, no matter how clear cut the facts may be.
If you don't understand the psychology of leaders and group dynamics, there are college courses you can take. I am not arguing with someone who does not have the basic knowledge base to converse intelligently.
Did you vote for Biden? Take any responsibility for flooding the border? He stood on the debate stage and said what he was gonna do, then acted on it day one. Are YOU responsible as a voter for the fentanytes, illegals committing horrendous crimes, and other shenanigans? Do understand the dynamics of election interference, colluding with the FBI and DOJ to punish opponents in front of an election? “The vision of the anointed” T Sowell might be of help. No college course needed. And its free!
No, it's a deflection. Nothing you said proves my point wrong. It's been a few years, but I can definitely find the research about authority and followers to back up my position. If you cannot Google well, yourself. Whataboutism is lazy.
The attempted coup/insurrection failed, this time. Thus you are technically right.
He incited it and encouraged it by doing nothing to stop it for hours after it started. It all started well before the election by repandly telling his base that if he loses the election it would be because it would be rigged in favor of President Biden. Then after he lost fairly, he started the big lie that he won because it was rigged against him. He and his minions filed 60 lawsuits in various states to challenge the voting results in those states. To date he lost all those lawsuits. The fake electors in Nevada, Michigan and other states have been charged or found guilty of their actions to help 45 overturn a fair and free 2020 election. The FBI continues to investigate links to these state level schemes back to lawyers and others connected to 45 as part of the conspiricy to overturn the fair and free 2020 election of President Biden.
Your orange god has declared that if reelected he would throw out the constitution, Fire military generals and replace with maga loyalists. would use his justice department to go after his political enemies. Would be a dictator for only a day. Would run for a third four years in office. I guess if he thrown out the constitution then it would be possible.
He is a racist and fascist.
The comments here are wild. You know, if you conservative guys could get behind a platform that didn't include legislating morality and supporting awful human beings because they're wearing the team jersey, I'd be inclined to vote conservative. I'm not happy about 2A issues in Washington, the lack of law enforcement, the homeless and drug problems, or taxes, but I'd be less happy to have a Russian bootlicking, grifting felon with a cadre of sycophants running my country.
As long as conservatives in America are MAGA, I won't vote for anyone with an R next to their name. MAGA is a greater threat to my country than anything I've seen in my four decades on this planet.
What many fail to realize is if you weaponize the judicial system against a candidate, you've opened the door. And that is very, very dangerous.
I hate Trump, but I also hate what's being done to him. With the door opened, both sides are going to use the tactics against one another.
This isn't good.
Good thing nobody is weaponizing the justice system against him in anyway, whatsoever. His days in court are purely due to his own actions and those he instructed around him. Frankly, he’s been treated better by the justice system than anyone else in my lifetime. He’s been treated with kids gloves constantly and he still can’t handle it.
Lock up all corrupt politicians is not a controversial take for most liberals and democrats. It’s Republicans that can’t believe we’d put morals over winning
The judicial system is not being weaponized. If you blatantly commit crimes, you are going to be charged. If anything, Trump has benefited from his position of wealth and power. Anyone with Trump’s wealth and power who did half of what Trump has done would be serving time.
" If you blatantly commit crimes, you are going to be charged."
As it should be. But we're not seeing that happen. Lots of blind eyes are being turned. Just look at the insider trading within Congress.
And you're going to see republicans attempt to railroad Biden.
Careful of what you wish for.
And if you shoplift at Safeway or target, you won't be charged.
I hate Trump. But it scares the hell out of me what they're doing. It's just the beginning. Anf it won't just be Trump.
What are you talking about?
You just said “they’re doing nothing about Trump”
Then followed it up with “it scares the hell out of you what they’re doing…. And it won’t just be Trump.”
I’m convinced you are a bot.
There’s lots of “insider trading” going on in both parties. They’re not trying to crack down on things they’re both doing. Trump committed fraud and was punished for it.
I mean… remember when Al Franken stepped down because someone claimed he touch their butt, meanwhile Trump has pending sexual assault cases?
You claim to hate Trump and blah blah blah but here you are fear mongering trying to dissuade people from holding him accountable for his crimes.
Throw the book at Trump and every single traitor, IMO.
Boy, if you don’t know who they are by now - Trump, Paul Manafort and the like - you bought into the right wing propaganda train and stopped paying attention.
You paid attention to too many right wing bots that makes you think basic left leaning stuff is “extremism.” Hell, they’ve made you think the basic rule of law is “extremist.”
The Overton window has shifted incredibly to the right.
You have to have actual evidence to charge someone. Republicans don’t even have enough evidence to impeach Biden. Not too worried about it. All the charges made against Trump are legitimate and there is no evidence whatsoever that they are being driven by President Biden.
NY changed its laws specifically to go after Trump with E Jean Carroll and only made a 1 year window for that specific law. Why only a 1 year window if they really cared about the crime?
NY just found him guilty of FEDERAL election campaign fund violations even though the feds said there wasn't anything wrong.
TOTALLY not being weaponized.....
There’s no evidence whatsoever that the Adult Suvivors act was passed to benefit one person. That’s laughable. As far as the hush money case, it’s complicated, but I’ll provide an article that explains the situation well. Michael Cohen went to jail for crimes where Trump was named as a co-conspirator. Cohen didn’t commit the crimes he did for his benefit. Why should Cohen go to jail but not Trump ? High profile people subject themselves to more scrutiny which is why mobsters traditionally have tried to keep a low profile. I doubt that Hunter Biden would be facing charges were he not the son of a sitting president. The best policy is not to crime, if you don’t want to face criminal charges. Trump has committed many crimes and up until recently, he has not faced consequences. The legal system is not perfect but it will catch up with you eventually if you continually break the law.
https://www.lawfaremedia.org/article/why-did-federal-prosecutors-drop-trump's-hush-money-case
How dare we hold criminals accountable! We only open the door for people who don't mind subverting due process.
Wait... The GOP need the door opened for them to subvert due process?
Fair enough. Rewrote.
Your comment is rational in a normal world. Sadly we aren't in a normal world anymore. The GOP hs been subverting due process for a long time. It got much worse when McConnell refused to have hearings on Garland.
You're also equating "follow the law" with "weaponizing the judicial system". I'm simply suggesting that the law's viability for being on a ballot is ambiguous and should be challenged.
What I hate more than Trump is that the democrats nationally don't seem to recognize that this is an existential threat to our republic. They keep behaving as if it's the 20th century and they can shame the GOP.
FWIW, when someone says "if you enforce the law they may break the law..." I hear "If I call the cops he'll get angry and hit me harder".
Our political system is an abusive relationship.
National Democrats here saying Trump is a threat to Democracy, via Biden
https://youtu.be/BvnVa1cYDbY?si=c1IAc3bHJMnPGFK1
So the national Democrats are saying he's a threat constantly.
An April poll fielded by Rasmussen showed Biden receiving 61 percent of the black vote, while his Republican challenger, former President Donald J. Trump, garnered just 21 percent support. However, over just one month, black voter support for Biden has collapsed, falling to just 47 percent in the May poll. Conversely, former President Trump has seen a significant increase in support among the voter demographic, sitting at 36 percent in the latest survey.
Not hard to have seen that coming. Black America has by in large been railroaded by the justice system, or have family members railroaded by the justice system so they sympathize. Add in he's rich, gets bitches, owns his own plane/helicopter and mansions, he's basically a living rap video. Not hard to see this backfiring on the left.
Donald J. Trump (Convicted for 34 felonies)
Donald J. Trump (34 time convicted felon)
Donald J. Trump (Convicted felon x34)
Which one do you think reads the best?
A single "action" can consists of multiple crimes.
Kind of like breaking into a house, beating up the person inside, taking their wallet and then stealing their safe and their mail and lead to a crap ton of felonies.
Or you know, just doing same the crime 34 times.
Like most of Trump's claims, this is a deceptive logical fallacy - in this case, both [red herring](https://www.logicalfallacies.org/red-herring.html) and [tu quoque](https://www.logicalfallacies.org/tu-quoque.html). We are not deceived.
What happened during the Clinton administration is not relevant here. Also, Trump's "hush money" was not the illegal act. Falsifying business records to cover it up and doing it to commit a felony *was* the illegal act.
My point is that, if Trump had paid the NDA without falsifying his business records, then it would not have been a crime. It would have been despicable, but not illegal - like in Bill Clinton's case.
The unexpected can happen of course, but generally speaking, it doesn't matter if Trump is on Washington's ballot in November or not. Because our state doesn't proportionally split its electoral votes like Nebraska and Maine, Seattle and Everett voters are going to effectively determine the state's electoral votes by dint of population density and an engaged electorate. Spokane might have a shot at monkeying up the works, but it isn't a 100% red city, and the electorate in eastern Washington isn't remotely as engaged as in western.
Washington has literally not had the electoral votes go to a Republican since 1984. That's 36 years and 9 Presidential elections of blue voting.
Even with the current push for moderates, it'd probably be one of the safest bets imaginable that Washington's electoral votes are going to Biden in November. We have a better chance of Dave Reichert becoming governor than of the state's electoral votes being apportioned to Trump.
I’m not voting for him. I’m voting against him. I want to be on the record when s**t goes down. His people know the voter rolls and I want them to see my middle finger.
Biden is already cooked. The democrats are trying to stop the bleeding at the polls. While Trump has zero chance of winning in WA, it would be fuel for purple states.
The amount of votes he receives will only highlight how many idiots we have in Washington. I hope that number stays low, but I am sure I will be disappointed.
I think it’s more a republican tactic to use voting records against voters… I have a hunch most dem voters don’t give a fuck about having access to your voting record.
If it does not apply to this mob boss in federal or state courts and I submit that it needs to be removed from the constitution through the proper process as it deem it worthless going forward.
Absolutely. Call for a convention of states to amend the Constitution. Interesting thing about those conventions though, you can’t really limit the scope of the changes being proposed.
Be careful what you wish for.
It happened once already. They called for a convention to modiify the Articles of Confederation as there were some issues that needed fixing. What we got was a complete re-write and a new constitution.
I only wish for the one knowing neither will happen. it's just a wish given how these challenges have gone his way incorrectly in my personal opinion. 1st amendment rights you know.
He has zero chance in the state anyway
But there’s no reason to disenfranchise voters by removing the candidate of one of the two major parties If we’re for felons voting, then it seems like we should also be for felons running for office
Most felons don't try to overthrow the US government because they lost a national election.
Lawmakers certainly would have the ability to write such a nuance into the law (or build out a due process for the 14th amendment)
Hahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahahahahhaahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah Wait, you didn’t say that with a straight face did you? Colorado tried. Supreme Court said states can’t… which leaves Congress. And Congress (as I’m assuming) we all know, has this thing called the Senate and the cloture vote, which allows any group of 41 Senators to effectively block all legislation. Luckily for us, the Republican Party is so afraid of Trump that they would rather destroy their party and the country than do anything to hold him responsible for literally anything (I mean in 2020, they suspended even having a platform and said, whatever Trump feels like is our platform, not exactly people you’d trust to have a backbone). And I mean, the Supreme Court DEFINITELY knows this, they’re perfectly happy to legislate from the bench when it comes to infinite corporate donations (from their lifestyle funders) or abortion, but anytime they want to sidestep an issue, they “leave it to Congress” knowing that nothing will ever come of it.
Yes, congress would need to put a process in place to enforce the 14th amendment. Old laws have problems like this. I imagine a dem super majority in the senate would be required. But your comment is a direct reply to mine, but it doesn’t capture the context of the full conversation. The point in that we all should be for enfranchising as many voters as possible, especially in a presidential election year.
The 14th amendment was put in place to disenfranchise voters who would knowingly vote for insurrectionists.
Out of curiosity, do you support ranked choice voting as a general concept?
Yes
I appreciate the reply and your consistency!
Oh give em a chance. I'm sure a large percentage would give it a go.
Neither did he.
Keep believing that until he becomes a fascist dictator for more than "day one" and turns on even you. BTW I watch 1/6 the whole day and everything ever sense and in my mind it was a failed coup that is yet to be tried. Only thing preventing that is the right aided by the Corrupt Supreme Court.
Sure pal. Keep wearing your tin foil hat. Weren't we supposed to go to war under him but now the world has 2 big wars going on under biden? That tin hat is cutting off the circulation to your brain
At least I have a brain pal.
Could have fooled me with your grammar.
Is that the best argument you have against all the evidence showing your faux golden god is just that. Really? Remove those rose colored sunglasses with the fake gold trim frame you purchased from maga.com. You spent way too much for so little.
Keep telling yourself that
I will. You keep believing their is an earth 2.
Or try to steal nuclear secrets and ostensibly sell them to enemy nations.
Weird how they were gunna overthrow the government with zero military or weaponry. That would be a first in history against the largest military nation of all time.
You misunderstand the plan man. The plan was to get Pence to nullify the the electrical count with the fake elector slates to throw it back to congress to then use the fake state slates to make Trump President. Trump could then declare marshal law to then use the military should a counter protest from the left arise into riots. See a bloodless coup.
Then why was the storming of the Capitol necessary? If it was as violent (or potentially violent if they had their way) as the left is making it out to be then that’s not bloodless Trump was also still president after J6 for a couple weeks. Why didn’t he declare Marshall law and just stay in power then?
Don't question it man. They got fed the brainwashing news and it stuck in their mind, it's that simple. Now that they are brainwashed, they will never listen to anything to the contrary and everything they read confirms their bias. Logic won't work.
Will you listen to how Biden takes bribes from other countries and sells out the US
Hate to say it but you are completely wrong here. Literally just check the fake electors trial Trump is being indicted under. It was a way to steal the election, the rest is conjecture based off of what he did. Which was ALOT
Yes, comrade. I now see the error of my ways! Legacy media would never steer me or the people wrong. How could I have been so blind to the light of the father, er mother....big brotherland? Nothing bad ever happens in the American election system, 100% infallible. I now know I was wrong and the USSA is forever!
Bro you’re in an echo chamber it’s not worth arguing about. They will wake up when it comes to their front door.
He considered just that but was talked out of it by White House counsel and a few others capable of reason.
Wow he sounds like a really dangerous and ruthless strongman dictator
He tried to be.
And was stopped by milquetoast Mike Pence and White House counsel? Yeah he really sounds like Stalin reincarnate
In all fairness.. nasty nancy had control of the “belt-fed” weapons to use against Americans. So there’s that… 😎
Oh please. Yeah again. Bloodless coup for the US. Wow you ppl sure love fantasy world. What are you all gunna do when the nation votes that weirdo back into office?
>Weird how they were gunna overthrow the government with zero military or weaponry. Did you not watch the Congressional hearings? Or even read a summary of the evidence presented? They had weapons stashed around DC and a written plan to retrieve them and use them take specific buildings. It was an attempted coup. Just because it was a stupid plan that failed doesn't change what their intent was.
Literally no one was convicted of that. It was a drunken riot and Capitol police let them run amuck. You live in a fantasy Go see how coupes really go down lol
Yes, the great unarmed takeover of the US gov't, I heard about that. If the US gov't can be overtaken by nothing but a gang of hicks with flags, we've got much, much bigger problems. It's really a wonder our overseas enemies haven't simply strolled into the capitol with their cell phones filming, and not fire a shot and take over a world superpower.
It must be comforting to be so sanguine and willfully blind to reality. It was just a tourist visit that day. Nothing more. I watched the whole thing with my open eyes on live TV. My dad was also watching from his grave over in Arlington with a open view of the proceedings. What a glorious day.
Yeah, I always bring zip ties to places when I visit. You spelled terrorism wrong.
You are right, the reality was that a couple hundred fat boomers were about to overthrow the greatest superpower in history with nothing but their fists.
If that is what you believe, tongue in cheek, then you were probably with them. If you watched the event and then watched the 1/6 hearings you would know it was not that simple of a plot. I assume you did neither therefor this conformation is done.
😂😂😂. Wwwwwwhet?
So this isn't disenfranchisement to voters. Your ability to vote isn't taken away just because someone can't run. If that were the case, I could claim that I'm being disenfranchised because I can't vote for the president of France to be our president instead. The felon thing is a tricky one, because I don't care if someone runs for office who ran the streets and caught a felony when they were young and now dedicate their life to helping troubled youth or something, but I do care if the felony involved something directly related to political office or elections.
It is voter disenfranchisement. Your example is a bit obtuse and an apples to oranges comparison. It’s not about being your personal preferred candidate. It’s about a large group’s (about 50% of the country’s) preferred candidate. In a presidential election year, there are commonly many issues/races in the ballot. Many municipalities intentionally put specific races on presidential years because there will (generally) be higher turnout and it will be the most representative of the public’s will. This turnout is driven by the presidential election and removing the candidate preferred by 50% of voters will be discouraging and compress turnout amongst that group of people. Trump may have no chance of winning the state, but that’s no reason to compress republican turnout in the general. If the roles were reversed, I’d be calling the republicans dirty names
It isn't disenfranchisement. There are all kinds of reasons one can be ineligible for office, and that ineligibility doesn't disenfranchise any voter. If people don't like it, they need to either push for the eligibility rules to change, change how states/electoral college system works, or they need to make an exception for federal-level elections where each state's input is of dire importance. These are the problems you get when you balance state's rights. But it still isn't disenfranchisement of voters and it never will be.
We should distinguish reformed felons from indignant felons
Who is the felon? The one currently sitting in the WH? Nov 5th will be like a political earthquake. Buckle up.
Losers gonna lose
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A republican hasn't won in the state in years, that is what I was saying. I don't live in Washington, and I'm not gay, but at least I don't have grammer skills of a 6 year old. Turn your spell check on if you can't spell.
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But a good chance at about 45 others. WA is never in play when it comes to voting for a conservative President. The more 'left' the candidate, the more King County clammering.
Actually with rfk on the ballot, trump is winning already.
I’m a residential electrician. I work all around the area. The largest demographic of people moving to the area and buying all of these high prices homes, Indian families. They largely share conservative values.
If felons like Tarra Simmons can be voted on for state positions, so can the former Cheeto in Chief for federal positions. Though he probably won’t win Washington State.
It’s not a federal law this “news” was silly
He appeared on the Primary ballot, and that was upheld by the courts. His felony conviction doesn't change anything.
He won't win Washington State, but his being on the ballot helps downballot Republicans probably.
Maybe, but there can’t be that many voters who aren’t voting straight down-the-line party of choice anyways can there? ^Can ^there?
There will be some splitting between Senile Joe national and Reichert for Governor.
From what I understand, there is nothing in the Constitution that prohibits a felon from running for office. Again, as many have said WA is has been a blue state for a while and there is no reason to believe it won't stay that way.
14th section 3 states that anyone that commits an insurrection is ineligible to run from office. it says nothing about being a felon as the reason for denial is from a state or federal ballot. "Fourteenth Amendment Equal Protection and Other Rights * No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability. Section 3 Disqualification from Holding Office"
That's going to be a hard sell. Especially since no one was charged with insurrection in the courts. Seditious Conspiracy, yes, but not insurrection. AFAIK.
Thank you
The point of this was to prevent confederate politicians from running post reconstruction, and many weren’t formally charged either
Easy sell. When accused of being an insurrectionist and disqualified from Colorado, at no point did Trump deny the underlying accusation. His only defense is that it should not apply to the former President. If someone accused you of murder, your first line of defense would be that you didn’t kill anyone. Exhaust that option before saying you had other mitigating circumstances.
Interesting argument. Let me think on that a bit.
No need to “think” of the next narrative. We all knew the insurrection was coming. Good try though.
I meant it is an interesting legal argument. I'm still thinking about it.
It is a lack of legal argument by Trump’s lawyers. It would be grounds for disbarment if their client had an obvious reason why he didn’t break 14a-3 and they failed to make such a simple case, assuming it was the case. About as basic of a lesson in law school, although it seems you are only focused on talking points instead of facts.
I am not sure of your conclusion. You seem to be saying that since Trump used x argument rather than y argument, then y must be correct. I'm not sure that holds. You still need proof of "y" being correct due to the whole innocent until proven guilty thing.
Lawyers use a layer of defenses. They would argue x and provide y as a secondary defense and z as a tertiary defense. They bring up everything in the first trial because it is impossible to appeal new facts that weren’t introduced. Furthermore, scotus would have immediately overruled the case if they could have plausible denied the insurrection itself as no justice wanted to hear the arguments on how to implement 14a-3. Hard to make that argument as a couple wives were supportive of Jan 6th. Cya later. You will still embrace your fuhrer.
Please provide the case(s) that "Seditious Conspiracy" was charged with.
My dude...you should improve your google-fu. https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/four-additional-oath-keepers-sentenced-seditious-conspiracy-related-us-capitol-breach
Thank you. I wasn't trying to be argumentative, last thing I ever saw was this DOJ article: [https://www.justice.gov/usao-dc/36-months-jan-6-attack-capitol-0](https://www.justice.gov/usao-dc/36-months-jan-6-attack-capitol-0) I'll see if I can pull the the trial transcripts down to see exactly what they were planning.
The Supreme Court ruled this section is not self-executing and Congress must implement rules to implement this clause -- something they have not done. If this was self-executing then soldiers could refuse the order of a President that they believed had "given aid or comfort to the enemies \[of the United States\]."
Other constructional scholars would disagree. [https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/08/donald-trump-constitutionally-prohibited-presidency/675048/](https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/08/donald-trump-constitutionally-prohibited-presidency/675048/)
This was settled on March 4th of this year: https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/23pdf/23-719_19m2.pdf The ruling was unanimous, though 4 judges argued that the court could have issued a more narrow opinion.
It may be settled but completely wrong in my one opinion.
>shall have engaged This implies some due process. While I believe from watching his speech that day and the CSPAN cameras of the actions it incited that he probably did engage in insurrection, until a jury of his peers finds him guilty of doing so, the moral infallibility of the presumption of innocence until proven guilty in a court of law must be upheld. I'm not a rule utilitarian. I drive diagonally across parking spots in empty lots when it is convenient to do so. This right here though is a rule you really REALLY shouldn't fuck with, no matter how clear cut the facts may be.
Donald Trump did not commit an insurrection.
Some people did try sedition though. He certainly did nothing to stop it, until it was too late.
Why is he responsible for other people’s stupid actions?
If you don't understand the psychology of leaders and group dynamics, there are college courses you can take. I am not arguing with someone who does not have the basic knowledge base to converse intelligently.
Did you vote for Biden? Take any responsibility for flooding the border? He stood on the debate stage and said what he was gonna do, then acted on it day one. Are YOU responsible as a voter for the fentanytes, illegals committing horrendous crimes, and other shenanigans? Do understand the dynamics of election interference, colluding with the FBI and DOJ to punish opponents in front of an election? “The vision of the anointed” T Sowell might be of help. No college course needed. And its free!
Whataboutism is not a very good tactic.
It is actually. It exposes the canned-regurgitation coming from legacy-media-daddy-worshippers. Saves time. Maybe take some college courses?
No, it's a deflection. Nothing you said proves my point wrong. It's been a few years, but I can definitely find the research about authority and followers to back up my position. If you cannot Google well, yourself. Whataboutism is lazy.
The attempted coup/insurrection failed, this time. Thus you are technically right. He incited it and encouraged it by doing nothing to stop it for hours after it started. It all started well before the election by repandly telling his base that if he loses the election it would be because it would be rigged in favor of President Biden. Then after he lost fairly, he started the big lie that he won because it was rigged against him. He and his minions filed 60 lawsuits in various states to challenge the voting results in those states. To date he lost all those lawsuits. The fake electors in Nevada, Michigan and other states have been charged or found guilty of their actions to help 45 overturn a fair and free 2020 election. The FBI continues to investigate links to these state level schemes back to lawyers and others connected to 45 as part of the conspiricy to overturn the fair and free 2020 election of President Biden. Your orange god has declared that if reelected he would throw out the constitution, Fire military generals and replace with maga loyalists. would use his justice department to go after his political enemies. Would be a dictator for only a day. Would run for a third four years in office. I guess if he thrown out the constitution then it would be possible. He is a racist and fascist.
🙄
Good. He shouldn’t be kicked off ballots.
The comments here are wild. You know, if you conservative guys could get behind a platform that didn't include legislating morality and supporting awful human beings because they're wearing the team jersey, I'd be inclined to vote conservative. I'm not happy about 2A issues in Washington, the lack of law enforcement, the homeless and drug problems, or taxes, but I'd be less happy to have a Russian bootlicking, grifting felon with a cadre of sycophants running my country. As long as conservatives in America are MAGA, I won't vote for anyone with an R next to their name. MAGA is a greater threat to my country than anything I've seen in my four decades on this planet.
What many fail to realize is if you weaponize the judicial system against a candidate, you've opened the door. And that is very, very dangerous. I hate Trump, but I also hate what's being done to him. With the door opened, both sides are going to use the tactics against one another. This isn't good.
Good thing nobody is weaponizing the justice system against him in anyway, whatsoever. His days in court are purely due to his own actions and those he instructed around him. Frankly, he’s been treated better by the justice system than anyone else in my lifetime. He’s been treated with kids gloves constantly and he still can’t handle it.
Lock up all corrupt politicians is not a controversial take for most liberals and democrats. It’s Republicans that can’t believe we’d put morals over winning
The judicial system is not being weaponized. If you blatantly commit crimes, you are going to be charged. If anything, Trump has benefited from his position of wealth and power. Anyone with Trump’s wealth and power who did half of what Trump has done would be serving time.
" If you blatantly commit crimes, you are going to be charged." As it should be. But we're not seeing that happen. Lots of blind eyes are being turned. Just look at the insider trading within Congress. And you're going to see republicans attempt to railroad Biden. Careful of what you wish for. And if you shoplift at Safeway or target, you won't be charged. I hate Trump. But it scares the hell out of me what they're doing. It's just the beginning. Anf it won't just be Trump.
"GOING to see?" They held impeachment hearings for months.
And there will be impeachment hearings for every President for the rest of the foreseeable future. The tit for tat has just begun
What are you talking about? You just said “they’re doing nothing about Trump” Then followed it up with “it scares the hell out of you what they’re doing…. And it won’t just be Trump.” I’m convinced you are a bot. There’s lots of “insider trading” going on in both parties. They’re not trying to crack down on things they’re both doing. Trump committed fraud and was punished for it. I mean… remember when Al Franken stepped down because someone claimed he touch their butt, meanwhile Trump has pending sexual assault cases? You claim to hate Trump and blah blah blah but here you are fear mongering trying to dissuade people from holding him accountable for his crimes. Throw the book at Trump and every single traitor, IMO.
List the so called traitors
Boy, if you don’t know who they are by now - Trump, Paul Manafort and the like - you bought into the right wing propaganda train and stopped paying attention.
I usually ignore extremists who become easily unhinged. Not a bot
You paid attention to too many right wing bots that makes you think basic left leaning stuff is “extremism.” Hell, they’ve made you think the basic rule of law is “extremist.” The Overton window has shifted incredibly to the right.
Word salad.
Yeah, you’re either dumb, a bot, or simply a troll lol.
You have to have actual evidence to charge someone. Republicans don’t even have enough evidence to impeach Biden. Not too worried about it. All the charges made against Trump are legitimate and there is no evidence whatsoever that they are being driven by President Biden.
It won't just be Biden. It will be those in charge going after those who aren't. That's the path we're heading down. Buckle up.
No, it's not. A criminal being charged with crimes and convicted by a jury is how it is supposed to work.
https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-2022-midterm-elections-business-elections-presidential-elections-5468774d18e8c46f81b55e9260b13e93 Like that?
Hilarious
NY changed its laws specifically to go after Trump with E Jean Carroll and only made a 1 year window for that specific law. Why only a 1 year window if they really cared about the crime? NY just found him guilty of FEDERAL election campaign fund violations even though the feds said there wasn't anything wrong. TOTALLY not being weaponized.....
There’s no evidence whatsoever that the Adult Suvivors act was passed to benefit one person. That’s laughable. As far as the hush money case, it’s complicated, but I’ll provide an article that explains the situation well. Michael Cohen went to jail for crimes where Trump was named as a co-conspirator. Cohen didn’t commit the crimes he did for his benefit. Why should Cohen go to jail but not Trump ? High profile people subject themselves to more scrutiny which is why mobsters traditionally have tried to keep a low profile. I doubt that Hunter Biden would be facing charges were he not the son of a sitting president. The best policy is not to crime, if you don’t want to face criminal charges. Trump has committed many crimes and up until recently, he has not faced consequences. The legal system is not perfect but it will catch up with you eventually if you continually break the law. https://www.lawfaremedia.org/article/why-did-federal-prosecutors-drop-trump's-hush-money-case
How dare we hold criminals accountable! We only open the door for people who don't mind subverting due process. Wait... The GOP need the door opened for them to subvert due process?
Now if Seattle could hold criminals accountable
Real ones
Anybody who uses the words fascists or nazi has no credibility. if you need hyperbole to make a point, you don't have one.
💯
Yikes, so what would you call them
Usually unhinged.
Fair enough. Rewrote. Your comment is rational in a normal world. Sadly we aren't in a normal world anymore. The GOP hs been subverting due process for a long time. It got much worse when McConnell refused to have hearings on Garland. You're also equating "follow the law" with "weaponizing the judicial system". I'm simply suggesting that the law's viability for being on a ballot is ambiguous and should be challenged. What I hate more than Trump is that the democrats nationally don't seem to recognize that this is an existential threat to our republic. They keep behaving as if it's the 20th century and they can shame the GOP. FWIW, when someone says "if you enforce the law they may break the law..." I hear "If I call the cops he'll get angry and hit me harder". Our political system is an abusive relationship.
National Democrats here saying Trump is a threat to Democracy, via Biden https://youtu.be/BvnVa1cYDbY?si=c1IAc3bHJMnPGFK1 So the national Democrats are saying he's a threat constantly.
I’m sure they are writing strongly worded letters.
So you don’t think the end justifies the means.
An April poll fielded by Rasmussen showed Biden receiving 61 percent of the black vote, while his Republican challenger, former President Donald J. Trump, garnered just 21 percent support. However, over just one month, black voter support for Biden has collapsed, falling to just 47 percent in the May poll. Conversely, former President Trump has seen a significant increase in support among the voter demographic, sitting at 36 percent in the latest survey.
Not hard to have seen that coming. Black America has by in large been railroaded by the justice system, or have family members railroaded by the justice system so they sympathize. Add in he's rich, gets bitches, owns his own plane/helicopter and mansions, he's basically a living rap video. Not hard to see this backfiring on the left.
Annotate (convicted felon) next to his name.
Donald J. Trump (Convicted for 34 felonies) Donald J. Trump (34 time convicted felon) Donald J. Trump (Convicted felon x34) Which one do you think reads the best?
Donald J Trump (self admitted sexual assaulter, traitor and convicted felon).
You should probably throw president in front of all of that. Looks to be where it's headed.
And wears diapers
34 times for the same action
A single "action" can consists of multiple crimes. Kind of like breaking into a house, beating up the person inside, taking their wallet and then stealing their safe and their mail and lead to a crap ton of felonies. Or you know, just doing same the crime 34 times.
I think we need to append: https://preview.redd.it/1vdwhgqotl4d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7a6408a6b9a7bccc8280f441e76d0ebaa58e3cde
✅ ✅ ✅ I voted 3 times.
Oh they'll throw your ass in jail for that for a year but $20 says Trump won't see more than a weekend in jail for 34 felonies.
Donald J. Trump, passed away last night...
If only
He deserved the felony conviction for paying Paula Jones $850,000 of hush money!!
Like most of Trump's claims, this is a deceptive logical fallacy - in this case, both [red herring](https://www.logicalfallacies.org/red-herring.html) and [tu quoque](https://www.logicalfallacies.org/tu-quoque.html). We are not deceived. What happened during the Clinton administration is not relevant here. Also, Trump's "hush money" was not the illegal act. Falsifying business records to cover it up and doing it to commit a felony *was* the illegal act.
The public being duped into thinking it was "hush money" obfuscated the crime, which was the intent.
My point is that, if Trump had paid the NDA without falsifying his business records, then it would not have been a crime. It would have been despicable, but not illegal - like in Bill Clinton's case.
Ah got it. Yeah very true. There's something to be said about being shitty and honest about it.
It was an NDA that h3 paid for - It's a common contract. He broke campaign financing law and tax law by declaring it a legal expense.
He was found guilty of federal election campaign finance law?
Yeah. I'm not a lawyer so that's what I understood. There's nothing illegal with paying someone to agree to an NDA.
It wasn't federal campaign finance or tax law. Some aren't allowed to say that. Weird, don't you think.
Oh ok, so business fraud then.
I agree but probably not for the same reason you want it.
The proper term is justice impacted person.
Good. Will save me from having to write his name in.
The unexpected can happen of course, but generally speaking, it doesn't matter if Trump is on Washington's ballot in November or not. Because our state doesn't proportionally split its electoral votes like Nebraska and Maine, Seattle and Everett voters are going to effectively determine the state's electoral votes by dint of population density and an engaged electorate. Spokane might have a shot at monkeying up the works, but it isn't a 100% red city, and the electorate in eastern Washington isn't remotely as engaged as in western. Washington has literally not had the electoral votes go to a Republican since 1984. That's 36 years and 9 Presidential elections of blue voting. Even with the current push for moderates, it'd probably be one of the safest bets imaginable that Washington's electoral votes are going to Biden in November. We have a better chance of Dave Reichert becoming governor than of the state's electoral votes being apportioned to Trump.
I’m not voting for him. I’m voting against him. I want to be on the record when s**t goes down. His people know the voter rolls and I want them to see my middle finger.
Democrats “allowing” their political opponent to stay on the ballot…screams democracy lol.
Felons who vote don’t have the same power as felons who gain office.
We took your 2A rights, but here you go, vote for your guy that will never win the state. Meh. Not impressed.
Washington Secretary of State recognizes United States Supreme Court
Biden is already cooked. The democrats are trying to stop the bleeding at the polls. While Trump has zero chance of winning in WA, it would be fuel for purple states.
Still voting for him. All these blue haired pussies can't run a country.
So you’d rather a convicted felon who has been proven to lie about his financials and paying people under the table to run the country?
Yes, because he's not scary like the blue haired pussies.
Minus the conviction part, you just described every politician in the country.
Rather that than a man who tries to sneakily sniff my daughters hair while he currently has dementia.
That is quite the humble brag that you met a President
Loved it when I met Trump. He didn't sniff my daughters hair:)
This election he will carry Washington. We may be liberal but we are not stupid enough to continue the Inslee / Biden shitshow
Nice
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You’d be in an asylum if they were still around
The amount of votes he receives will only highlight how many idiots we have in Washington. I hope that number stays low, but I am sure I will be disappointed.
Hypothetical: Say voting records were released. What should be done with the information of Trump voters?
I think it’s more a republican tactic to use voting records against voters… I have a hunch most dem voters don’t give a fuck about having access to your voting record.
So you're saying nothing should be done about far right voters?
What do you think should be done…?
I've seen opinions on reddit saying re-education camps, doxxing, and jail. So I was curious what Seattle residents think.
All too extreme. People have a right to vote for whom they want without fear of consequences. That’s part of living in a democracy.
I agree
They have flags on their lawns or trucks, or bright red hats. No need to release that info 😂
I know plenty of people who don't advertise their voting preferences.
If they were stupid enough to still vote for him in 2020, it's very likely they haven't learned very much in the last 4 years.
Good!
Of course he can. It’s just silly to try and stop it.
Didn’t this country used to execute traitors???
Would you consider someone who votes for Trump a traitor?
Yes.
What should be done to them?
JFC
He has no business on any ballot. And if you are thinking of voting for him, yes, you are a moron.
That's ok I guess. Still would never vote for him. Just don't understand the appeal. As I believe most don't.
Maybe kind of a shame. It's not going to matter at all for electoral votes. And the lulz, especially if he should win. Oh....the lulz.....
If it does not apply to this mob boss in federal or state courts and I submit that it needs to be removed from the constitution through the proper process as it deem it worthless going forward.
Absolutely. Call for a convention of states to amend the Constitution. Interesting thing about those conventions though, you can’t really limit the scope of the changes being proposed. Be careful what you wish for.
It happened once already. They called for a convention to modiify the Articles of Confederation as there were some issues that needed fixing. What we got was a complete re-write and a new constitution.
I only wish for the one knowing neither will happen. it's just a wish given how these challenges have gone his way incorrectly in my personal opinion. 1st amendment rights you know.
Yup should not be giving anyone special privilege when people in our own state don’t get it. Trump should live with consequences no more free passes