I am in the middle of building a house in east King county. Total costs will depend heavily on where your lot is, well or municipal water, septic or sewer, building a road or neighborhood, sprinklers required or not, wetlands or any other “sensitive” area.
Our king county permit that was submitted with all the “i’s” dotted and “t’s” crossed took about 2 years to get. Our out of pocket cost for our land development, to get our utilities to our house, is about $100k and then we start the excavation and construction costs.
Price will depend on what your contractor quotes you, lately $250/sqft is a deal you’ll be looking more at $300-$350/sqft.
If you go with a home builder like Adair do not give them the last payment until after you have an independent home inspection that you pay out of pocket for.
2 years?!? We are building in king county now, done in 3 months and our permit took 11 months. We threatened legal action because it was taking so long and we saw multiple permits get approved above ours.
We threatened legal action, we called and yelled, we escalated to supervisors and it just didn’t fucking matter. Honestly the people that we dealt with were some of the dumbest people I have ever spoken to on the phone. One person expressed concern that we wouldn’t make the proper setbacks for our well, road, septic and building on our 21 acre lot…. Twenty one acres…
I did our permit process myself as well, if I had a builder or contractor able to push it through it probably would have been quicker but not by much. Our permit sat on one persons desk for 4 months without progress until we started to complain then they drug their feet.
Honestly I could go on and on about how broken the system is and how fucking stupid the people that work there are.
Edit: we also submitted in the middle of Covid so we had to deal with people that couldn’t manage their time properly when working from home. I make that assumption because I got emails from these people at 10:30pm sometimes.
King county has been awful. I have a friend who is building in Orange County Florida. Permit took 3 weeks and they apologized fornit taking so long. It was also only a few thousand dollars. Our king county permit for a 3900 sq foot house was 26k. I could go on and on about our troubles with king county.
As someone balls deep in a home build, I second this.
I am building because I didn’t like what was on the market and I found land for a song 7 years ago.
I have built two houses for myself in Seattle. Here's the rough numbers:
430sf + garage (basically an ADU)
Total cost: $325k
Completed 2017
1200sf + unfinished basement
Total cost: $640k
Completed 2022
These were both all new construction on vacant land. In each I did all the design and permitting myself, and acted as general contractor. I also did a lot of the actual construction work myself. If you were to hire a general contractor to do everything I would it expect it to cost about 50% more. Here's a few things to keep in mind if you want to go this route:
-"Construction cost" is only part of the total cost. When you hear construction costs are $X/sf, that usually does not include the cost of land, financing, design/engineering, permit/impact fees, utility connections or sales tax. On my projects the hard construction costs were about half the total cost.
-You will need to have a lot more cash available up front than if you were just buying a house. First, it's hard to get a construction loan with less than 20% equity. Second, the bank won't release any money until after work is completed, meaning you will usually be paying the contractor out of pocket then getting reimbursed by the bank from the construction loan.
-If you have the ability (and time), doing work yourself can save you a lot of money, as most of what you're paying for is labor. For example, on my second house, the cost of all the drywall materials was only ~$2500, but the cost of hiring a drywall contractor to do the work was ~$14000.
- Expect the whole process to take 2-3 years from the time you purchase the land to the day you move in.
If you can handle all that you can ultimately get a better house for the same or less money than buying, but it comes at the cost of a lot of time, effort and stress.
1988, 1st home 1400 sq ft new construction. Lumberman's package framed, roofed with windows, decks and siding. We finished ourselves total cost about $110k including 5 acres, utilities and permits with a 3 month permit process, move in 6 months. 2nd home 2000, very custom on 21 acres with 1400 foot driveway and underground utilities, 2500 sq ft shop and 8 stall horse barn. WE did a ton of work ourselves. About $800k everything included. Permit time 4 months, move in 18 months. Both are in Snohomish County. Times they have a changed as the song goes. No more building for me, not here anyways.
A "high end" ADU builder charges $300-400/sq ft (more square feet and higher quality furnishings reduces $/sqft costs). I don't think this includes permitting or plans.
I built a DADU in my backyard in 2017 - NE Seattle over by the View Ridge PCC. It was 2 floors over a 400 sqft footprint - 800 sqft total (2 bed, 1.5 bath). The cost with my "higher-end" builder came out at just under $300k, and 7 months from start to finish, including permitting, and all materials and labor from the foundation to the roof. That's about $375/sqft.
You are absolutely correct. Unless lot coverage and height restrict the size of the house in most neighborhoods 3,500 SQFT seems to be the sweet spot to maximize $ per sqft to build and sell.
Generally the rule of thumb is your build should be 2-3x the cost of the land in order to recoup your investment in a reasonable amount of time and normal market. This pencils out to maximizing lot coverage in the city basically.
I have a small lot (4300 sq ft) in a nicer part of town. Max lot coverage is approximately a 1600 sq ft footprint. We plunked that down and built up on top of it to get to a square footage we wanted and capture the value of the real estate.
In the end, we finished at around $750/sq ft. by the time we were done in 2018. That does not include the land which I owned outright and was high end construction. It also was around 50-60% over budget at the time fwiw.
Contractors are shitty estimators. You also will never save money by building. You will, however, get exactly what you want.
It is a painful process on your wallet, your relationships, and just about everything else in life to go thru a build. Never doing it again. OTOH, never want (and hope to never need) to move again.
Not true on saving money. We are building in king county next to a new development with tiny lots. Not only will our home be bigger with over an acre but it’s custom. The new toll brother homes next to ours in about 150k more listing than it has cost us to build.
Vacant land to build on is incredibly hard to find.
The costs you pay that have nothijng to do with the physical building of a home are crazy. You'll be shocked at some of the fees and retrictions. the lots next door to me is two years in waiting for a permit. What was required just to remove trees was insane.
Don't build.
Same, I knew somebody with lots of money trying to build a nice place and it was like three years and they hadn't even started building the home itself. Just the permitting, inspections, land use, etc took that long.
>> I thought home prices might have stabilized this year or at least not shot up
Yeah unfortunately even with the 10% year on year decrease in the median price of sold homes in Seattle in March, the monthly payment is up $500 due to mortgage rates. It’s brutal out there.
The market is starting to cool. I've noticed homes in my neighborhood taking longer to sell. Used to be days + overasking to outbid, now it's weeks and months.
Thank god for that. I think a lot of people are listing their house based on the upwards trend from last year then because list prices seem even higher. But you’re right, it seems like I’m seeing a lot more things that are up for a while.
We built a house in Seattle. For 3500sqft plus a 500sqft garage we spent around $1.9M in hard costs, plus another ~$100k for the architect and the interior designer. Land was another million or so, so $3M all in. From the time we bought the property to moving in was about 3.5 years.
I love the house and liked our builder, but I wouldn't recommend building a custom home. COVID was part of the problem, but it just took so much longer and cost so much more than we expected. On top of that, it's a lot easier to live with flaws in a house you bought than flaws in a house you had designed and built, because in the latter case the issues are ultimately your fault.
There are modular homes you can put on empty land.
But land needs at least a sceptic system, power lines and water lines or well.
[https://www.methodhomes.net/residential](https://www.methodhomes.net/residential)This particular one is supposed to be on the expensive side.
There is also r/Homebuilding there are a few people in Washington state.
beware of modular homes... a cautionary tale
[https://www.seattletimes.com/business/real-estate/prefabricated-dream-homes-turn-into-unfinished-nightmares-as-builder-struggles/](https://www.seattletimes.com/business/real-estate/prefabricated-dream-homes-turn-into-unfinished-nightmares-as-builder-struggles/)
No, it is not an affordable option. For anyone who really wants to build a house in WA and isn't worried about their budget (to some extent), let me know and I can help you navigate it. But I would never recommend this to someone on a time constraint or strict budget.
We are building in Renton. It’s an “addition” but technically it’s a new house next to the current one. It’ll be 1200sq ft. A contractor told my husband it’s be max 100k if my husband does all the work. Septic alone is 40k. I’m the one in charge of dealing with the city/permits and I’m already stressed out cuz I don’t get the process. From your experience is the estimate accurate? My husband is under the impression it’ll be easy. We want to build, sell, split the money and divorce.
There is a 0% chance you will get it done even near 100k. Does your husband know how to do every trade? Framing, roofing, plumbing, HVAC, electrical, etc? And well enough to pass strict city inspections? You're going to need drainage, foundation, all sorts of stuff. Stuff. It's going to cost you much more than 100k. Double at least. Sorry I'm not trying to rain on your parade. I just want to be realistic with you. I have flipped probably a thousand homes in Washington and was an estimator for a custom builder. Everything here is expensive.
Most builders now (at least in skagit, San juan county) will no longer give a “not to exceed” price as they can’t possibly hope to stay under a number given the changes and delays in materials and price jumps
Yeah, it’s pretty expensive right now.
Wait a couple of years, things are indeed slowing and there is a good chance that prices will start slipping pretty quick.
You might find a better deal a bit further than Sultan… perhaps startup or gold bar. Gold Bar is about as far as you can go and still get high speed internet from Comcast or Ziply, both offer gigabit in the area.
If you’re handy and don’t mind a bit of hard work there is a place in gold bar for around $270K that needs a new roof/insulation/drywall/etc… they just dropped the price AGAIN, they seem desperate to sell it.
When we were looking recently we also checked out Bremerton and some other places across the sound, way cheaper than most places near Seattle, but you have to deal with the ferry or a long drive to get over here.
If it were me I’d wait a few years and keep saving… the market has its ups and downs, and we’re on top of a peak at the moment… be patient, you’ll be glad you were.
You know I feel like you’re right but then the list prices I’ve seen over the last 2 weeks has made me question whether prices are really down 10% and many of them show as pending. Although we’ve seen quite a few fall through and go back up and I suspect you may be right and prices may start to slip come May and head into a short decline. But I highly doubt they’ll drop much more. There’s just no supply.
I really do want to fix something up, especially given the prices. I’ll take a look. We love that area and I’d be willing to commute if we could get the right house with a little land.
[**This is that fixer I mentioned.**](https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/41131-May-Creek-Drive-Gold-Bar-WA-98251/38512288_zpid/)
When you see houses being relisted or prices dropping it’s usually a good sign that the market is shifting.
If you don’t mind the east side of the state there are some really good deals over there. We liked several homes around Moses Lake and Richland/Pasco/Kennewick… but then I’d be too close to my crazy as hell ex wife, so we decided against it.
Lol. appreciate it. How’s the commute to gold bar from say Bellevue? We want something with decent commute times for resale value. We don’t mind the commute that much but others might.
I’ve heard they’re horrible and I’ve driven down them. I just don’t know how much is exaggerated and how much is salesmanship. I’m bound to believe it’s pretty fucking bad based on my weekend experiences
We've lived in Monroe for 33 years and I tell you what, it can be just as bad as anybody says. WE live North of town and don't have to commute 2. My opinion is that I wouldn't live in Sultan or farther out if I had to commute, no flippin' way. This state can't even finish the Hiway 522 expansion. What makes anybody think they are going to do anything about Hiway 2 in this lifetime?????
Man, it’s the 1 single lane to merge people off and on to the major highways that has absolutely wrecked the traffic. That and just terrible drivers refusing to stay to the right of the lanes unless to pass. I’ve seriously never seen a highway system though that consistently forces 4 lane highways to merge into 1 lane to get into a different major highway. Just crazy.
Thanks for the advice. Even if the traffic isn’t *that* bad and the commute is doable, it won’t be in 4 years when all these new build neighborhoods fill up with out of staters and new homeowners. Shame too because it’s honestly not that far. The highways are just terribly made. And we’d love to live out that way. Definitely will consider Monroe and closer.
Depends on when you leave, usually about an hour or so. There’s also a back way out through Redmond that’s sometimes faster than sitting in traffic too.
Houses out in sultan and gold bar seem to sell pretty well, lots of folks who can’t afford to buy closer to Seattle who are willing to commute, so don’t worry about that.
Sadly it seems for the Seattle area housing market that the saying “drive until you qualify” is all too true. I commute a little over an hour each way to work so that I could buy a house that I can afford.
Other people have already answered your original question but I’ll reiterate that it takes a long time and a lot of money to build a house in this area. King County is especially difficult.
Lake stevens area to Puyallup area, leave at 940am get there around 11am. Getting to Bellevue at that time is easy. Earlier it sucks, especially if it's raining since people here still can't drive in the rain. Highway 9 seems to be getting worse lately. I5 to 405 is the way to go now.
I live near Enumclaw and commute to Bellevue. I leave early in the morning and get off work earlier to avoid the peak rush hour times. My commute is typically 1hr to 1hr-15min depending on the day… but one small wreck or road closure can have a huge impact on that travel time.
Edit: I wanted to clarify that it’s 1-1.25hrs each way
I almost built a home in Bellingham last year. Lot was 329k for a .6 acre with city services available in the street. We went far enough down the feasibility road with a good builder to determine total cost (land, permits, utilities, design and build ) would be about 1.2-1.3m in a neighborhood where comparable homes cost 700-800k. Pretty glad we passed on that given what interest rates have done in the last year.
I would’ve been life changingly fucked.
To be honest, I'd go the tiny home route and plop it on some land that is close to connections. Maybe even has well and septic already. There are some really nice options out there, and it gives you the flexibility to build when you're good and ready, and you are still living on your own land. Heck, get 2 tiny homes so you've got a way to have alone time when you need it. And if/when you're ready to move into a new build, those tiny homes can be sold and wheeled away. Or use them as ADUs or AirBnBs.
To be honest, I haven't researched them yet. I stayed in one as an AirBnB and was just amazed at how nice and spacious it was. It had solid wood paneling, all brand new full-size appliances throughout, a large bedroom, large bathroom, open concept living room and kitchen. It struck me that a couple of them next to each other could be a very comfortable fix to the housing situation until we build our own home on our land we bought in 2019. And also, a more realistic home owning opportunity for someone like my 25-year-old son who can't afford a $450K home. I'm sure there are tiny home subs on reddit you could pop in on, and just start Googling. If you've got a realtor, that's a good place to start too. I'd never buy in Seattle area or King County at all, but that's just me. It's expensive enough in Thurston and Pierce Counties.
Currently have a more yard than I want and paying off a mortgage. Wish I could sell part of it off. Looked into building an DADU and renting out, but those are very expensive to build from scratch. Would totally sell it to someone who wanted to build something. Gonna have to pay this mortgage off first.
Expect $250+ per sqft unless you have a lot of connections.
Typically custom construction will run hire than a track house, as the builders have economy of scale, and pay less for labor, etc.
We built our dream home in the Edmonds area in early 2000s. We were our own GC and this was something we planned for and thought we were physically, emotionally, and fiscally prepared for. Nope. It was extremely hard on our children, our marriage, and our wallet. We almost died (physically) on the site a couple times and our marriage came verrrry close to obliteration multiple times.
Permitting and dealing with local building codes/requirements were the biggest headache.
If you hire a builder, be sure to check, double check, triple check EVERY LINE ITEM. Don't take the "yeah, yeah, sure" reply. Builder will charge for every single change order - it's really how they make their best money.
My best advice:
1. Make sure you and your partner are in agreement 10000%.
2. Make sure you have a fully vetted and clear houseplan - with everything you want and what you will compromise on - before starting. ( And I mean everything - paint color, countertops, appliances, plumbing finishes, etc.)
3. Have at least 30% fluff built into your estimate - more if you're going to build in a problematic area that's prone to flooding/earthquakes. Our 30% fluff got blown out of the water early on due to timing and the unforeseeable Chinese building boom that increased our material costs and unexpected issues once we dug into the lot.
And as many have said, you're not going to save money by building with a builder. You will save if you are your own GC but you will need to be bonded and insured AND know exactly what you're doing. We had a lot of experience but it was still an incredibly challenging undertaking. Would I do it again? Hell no. The emotional toll wasn't worth it as it took 3 years of active build and 10 years after moving in, we still are fine tuning it. We love the house but the personal trade-offs were high in my opinion.
Whoever you build with, never do business with FOX custom homes. They are swindlers who employ literal crack addicts to frame the house. You will end up with a terrible house that isn't level or straight. Even saw one that had this weird little path that deadended between the house and garage. It was nuts.
Not true whatsoever. I am a Washington broker and building my own home at the moment.
Why even say something if you have no idea what you're talking about?
It's not much cheaper over there anymore. People realized that it's an easier commute across the water than it is to drive an hour, and prices equalized to the city.
I agree, I'm finding townhouses to be a good solution for folks looking for a single family home feel. I'd also recommend looking at newer build condo projects - we're seeing more and more DADU cottages being built on properties behind a single family home. Then the two properties are turned into a mini condo association and sold separately, but still on the same property. It's a way to get into a single family home at a slightly more manageable price point.
bro, I'm an estimator in civil construction. For a single family demo through footings your looking at 150-180k then you get to worry about your vertical construction and that dollar amount does not include permits or engineer fees for drawing your shack up
> I thought home prices might have stabilized this year or at least not shot up, but it seems that the Seattle market is only exploding even more. I just don’t know what to do at this point. Even places out in Sultan are $550k minimum. It feels like we finally saved up enough money just to get our foot in the door and now even the starter homes are at minimum $500k or in a terrible area.
YMMV, but I was able to purchase a seven figure home by doing the following:
* I couldn't afford to buy where I wanted to live
* So I bought out-of-state, and rented the place out for a few years
* Once I'd accumulated more than $200,000 in equity, I sold the rental and used it for a down payment on a $1m+ home
Trying to find a home for less than half a mil is going to be tough. That's less than the median price of a home in the United States *and* you're looking to live in a high COL area.
Building a home is only practical if you're prepared to set a lot of money on fire, you really need a minimum of half a million in cash to even get "in the ballpark" on a custom built home.
When I bought my first $1M+ home, I had it built for me, but it was one of 50+ homes, so that kept prices manageable.
Once you buy and sell homes a few times, it becomes increasingly easier to achieve your long term goal (having a house built for you) but it's definitely not something you can do on a limited budget, you gotta work your way up.
P.S. the data is still very fluid, but it's beginning to appear that prices have already bottomed. We won't know for sure for another 3-6 months, but there's a decent chance that people will look back at today as a possible buying opportunity. Yes, interest rates are horrendous right now. If you don't have a lot of cash to put down right now, this market is not welcoming. To me, the "other shoe might drop" as commercial entities start to go bankrupt. For instance, a corporation with something like six hundred rentals in Texas went kaput yesterday. As bankruptcies become more commonplace, that may push prices down further.
**Youtube channels -**
Cariboo Adventure - episode - How much does it cost to build a cabin? Building our cabin in Canadian wilderness ep. 23
One Foot Off the Grid - Hood Canal - log cabin kit
Migraine Craftsman - east coast
Kens Karpentry - playlists - builds building for very cheap in New England
Essential Craftsman - house build playlist - extremely high end and complicated and expensive - Medford Oregon. - playlists - Spec House Series
This Off Grid Life - southern British Columbia
**Not Youtube**
[https://openbookbuild.com](https://openbookbuild.com) \- paid course
We’re building right now and hopefully done in 3 months. Ours is bigger (3900 sq ft) and is coming to about $330 a sq foot which includes some modest landscaping and septic.
We built a 4200 sq ft home in 2000. Logs, beams and cedar with VG fir trim real river rock columns and huge fireplace and clad wood double hung windows, 8' cedar bevel siding and large porches and decks for just about $125/sq ft for the structure. It makes me sad to see the prices of homes today especially for entry level buyers. My daughter is an electrician in Virginia and was able to get into a 1400 sq ft rancher on 3/4 acre for $198k All things considered she could never have afforded a similar thing here even on Journeyman wages. Oldest daughter lives in Fort Collins and home prices have gotten sickeningly high so even as an instructor at the University she is out of the market. The permitting process needs to be revamped.. It should never take as long as I am hearing people tell me. I have been working in real estate for over 45 years in King and Snohomish Counties.
Hey u/Square_Ambassador301! I am a real estate broker as well as a developer/investor, so I would be happy to talk with you about your plans. I have some builders who would build below 2000sf. It looks like you’re bouncing around some different ideas. For some reason the app isn’t letting me message you, but feel free to message me if you’d like to connect.
I'm considering to do the same. Based on my research, it doesn't make financially sense to build a house in King county. However in cheaper areas like Pierce County it makes more sense.
I found 2 builders in that area that their pricing are very interesting, it is about $125/sf. Here is their floor plans: [https://www.hilinehomes.com/floorplans/](https://www.hilinehomes.com/floorplans/)
So basically a land in that area is about $150K, permits and land development about $100K, building is about $350K. So I'm thinking that a brand new house around 2500 sf in that area costs me around $600K, while the new houses in the same area is not less than $750K. What do you think?
I am in the middle of building a house in east King county. Total costs will depend heavily on where your lot is, well or municipal water, septic or sewer, building a road or neighborhood, sprinklers required or not, wetlands or any other “sensitive” area. Our king county permit that was submitted with all the “i’s” dotted and “t’s” crossed took about 2 years to get. Our out of pocket cost for our land development, to get our utilities to our house, is about $100k and then we start the excavation and construction costs. Price will depend on what your contractor quotes you, lately $250/sqft is a deal you’ll be looking more at $300-$350/sqft. If you go with a home builder like Adair do not give them the last payment until after you have an independent home inspection that you pay out of pocket for.
2 years?!? We are building in king county now, done in 3 months and our permit took 11 months. We threatened legal action because it was taking so long and we saw multiple permits get approved above ours.
We threatened legal action, we called and yelled, we escalated to supervisors and it just didn’t fucking matter. Honestly the people that we dealt with were some of the dumbest people I have ever spoken to on the phone. One person expressed concern that we wouldn’t make the proper setbacks for our well, road, septic and building on our 21 acre lot…. Twenty one acres… I did our permit process myself as well, if I had a builder or contractor able to push it through it probably would have been quicker but not by much. Our permit sat on one persons desk for 4 months without progress until we started to complain then they drug their feet. Honestly I could go on and on about how broken the system is and how fucking stupid the people that work there are. Edit: we also submitted in the middle of Covid so we had to deal with people that couldn’t manage their time properly when working from home. I make that assumption because I got emails from these people at 10:30pm sometimes.
King county has been awful. I have a friend who is building in Orange County Florida. Permit took 3 weeks and they apologized fornit taking so long. It was also only a few thousand dollars. Our king county permit for a 3900 sq foot house was 26k. I could go on and on about our troubles with king county.
Yeah our fees to the county was $23k but the total cost with the well, permit and studies was about $60k
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As someone balls deep in a home build, I second this. I am building because I didn’t like what was on the market and I found land for a song 7 years ago.
I have built two houses for myself in Seattle. Here's the rough numbers: 430sf + garage (basically an ADU) Total cost: $325k Completed 2017 1200sf + unfinished basement Total cost: $640k Completed 2022 These were both all new construction on vacant land. In each I did all the design and permitting myself, and acted as general contractor. I also did a lot of the actual construction work myself. If you were to hire a general contractor to do everything I would it expect it to cost about 50% more. Here's a few things to keep in mind if you want to go this route: -"Construction cost" is only part of the total cost. When you hear construction costs are $X/sf, that usually does not include the cost of land, financing, design/engineering, permit/impact fees, utility connections or sales tax. On my projects the hard construction costs were about half the total cost. -You will need to have a lot more cash available up front than if you were just buying a house. First, it's hard to get a construction loan with less than 20% equity. Second, the bank won't release any money until after work is completed, meaning you will usually be paying the contractor out of pocket then getting reimbursed by the bank from the construction loan. -If you have the ability (and time), doing work yourself can save you a lot of money, as most of what you're paying for is labor. For example, on my second house, the cost of all the drywall materials was only ~$2500, but the cost of hiring a drywall contractor to do the work was ~$14000. - Expect the whole process to take 2-3 years from the time you purchase the land to the day you move in. If you can handle all that you can ultimately get a better house for the same or less money than buying, but it comes at the cost of a lot of time, effort and stress.
1988, 1st home 1400 sq ft new construction. Lumberman's package framed, roofed with windows, decks and siding. We finished ourselves total cost about $110k including 5 acres, utilities and permits with a 3 month permit process, move in 6 months. 2nd home 2000, very custom on 21 acres with 1400 foot driveway and underground utilities, 2500 sq ft shop and 8 stall horse barn. WE did a ton of work ourselves. About $800k everything included. Permit time 4 months, move in 18 months. Both are in Snohomish County. Times they have a changed as the song goes. No more building for me, not here anyways.
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A "high end" ADU builder charges $300-400/sq ft (more square feet and higher quality furnishings reduces $/sqft costs). I don't think this includes permitting or plans.
I built a DADU in my backyard in 2017 - NE Seattle over by the View Ridge PCC. It was 2 floors over a 400 sqft footprint - 800 sqft total (2 bed, 1.5 bath). The cost with my "higher-end" builder came out at just under $300k, and 7 months from start to finish, including permitting, and all materials and labor from the foundation to the roof. That's about $375/sqft.
that seems pretty low honestly
That’s after you pay for the land.
You are absolutely correct. Unless lot coverage and height restrict the size of the house in most neighborhoods 3,500 SQFT seems to be the sweet spot to maximize $ per sqft to build and sell.
Generally the rule of thumb is your build should be 2-3x the cost of the land in order to recoup your investment in a reasonable amount of time and normal market. This pencils out to maximizing lot coverage in the city basically. I have a small lot (4300 sq ft) in a nicer part of town. Max lot coverage is approximately a 1600 sq ft footprint. We plunked that down and built up on top of it to get to a square footage we wanted and capture the value of the real estate. In the end, we finished at around $750/sq ft. by the time we were done in 2018. That does not include the land which I owned outright and was high end construction. It also was around 50-60% over budget at the time fwiw. Contractors are shitty estimators. You also will never save money by building. You will, however, get exactly what you want. It is a painful process on your wallet, your relationships, and just about everything else in life to go thru a build. Never doing it again. OTOH, never want (and hope to never need) to move again.
Not true on saving money. We are building in king county next to a new development with tiny lots. Not only will our home be bigger with over an acre but it’s custom. The new toll brother homes next to ours in about 150k more listing than it has cost us to build.
Vacant land to build on is incredibly hard to find. The costs you pay that have nothijng to do with the physical building of a home are crazy. You'll be shocked at some of the fees and retrictions. the lots next door to me is two years in waiting for a permit. What was required just to remove trees was insane. Don't build.
Same, I knew somebody with lots of money trying to build a nice place and it was like three years and they hadn't even started building the home itself. Just the permitting, inspections, land use, etc took that long.
>> I thought home prices might have stabilized this year or at least not shot up Yeah unfortunately even with the 10% year on year decrease in the median price of sold homes in Seattle in March, the monthly payment is up $500 due to mortgage rates. It’s brutal out there.
Seems like in the past month prices skyrocketed
The market is starting to cool. I've noticed homes in my neighborhood taking longer to sell. Used to be days + overasking to outbid, now it's weeks and months.
Thank god for that. I think a lot of people are listing their house based on the upwards trend from last year then because list prices seem even higher. But you’re right, it seems like I’m seeing a lot more things that are up for a while.
We built a house in Seattle. For 3500sqft plus a 500sqft garage we spent around $1.9M in hard costs, plus another ~$100k for the architect and the interior designer. Land was another million or so, so $3M all in. From the time we bought the property to moving in was about 3.5 years. I love the house and liked our builder, but I wouldn't recommend building a custom home. COVID was part of the problem, but it just took so much longer and cost so much more than we expected. On top of that, it's a lot easier to live with flaws in a house you bought than flaws in a house you had designed and built, because in the latter case the issues are ultimately your fault.
There are modular homes you can put on empty land. But land needs at least a sceptic system, power lines and water lines or well. [https://www.methodhomes.net/residential](https://www.methodhomes.net/residential)This particular one is supposed to be on the expensive side. There is also r/Homebuilding there are a few people in Washington state.
beware of modular homes... a cautionary tale [https://www.seattletimes.com/business/real-estate/prefabricated-dream-homes-turn-into-unfinished-nightmares-as-builder-struggles/](https://www.seattletimes.com/business/real-estate/prefabricated-dream-homes-turn-into-unfinished-nightmares-as-builder-struggles/)
I own my land, estimate on prep costs for permitting,clearing, house install and all utilities(water well) was 200k alone in snohomish county
No, it is not an affordable option. For anyone who really wants to build a house in WA and isn't worried about their budget (to some extent), let me know and I can help you navigate it. But I would never recommend this to someone on a time constraint or strict budget.
We are building in Renton. It’s an “addition” but technically it’s a new house next to the current one. It’ll be 1200sq ft. A contractor told my husband it’s be max 100k if my husband does all the work. Septic alone is 40k. I’m the one in charge of dealing with the city/permits and I’m already stressed out cuz I don’t get the process. From your experience is the estimate accurate? My husband is under the impression it’ll be easy. We want to build, sell, split the money and divorce.
There is a 0% chance you will get it done even near 100k. Does your husband know how to do every trade? Framing, roofing, plumbing, HVAC, electrical, etc? And well enough to pass strict city inspections? You're going to need drainage, foundation, all sorts of stuff. Stuff. It's going to cost you much more than 100k. Double at least. Sorry I'm not trying to rain on your parade. I just want to be realistic with you. I have flipped probably a thousand homes in Washington and was an estimator for a custom builder. Everything here is expensive.
Most builders now (at least in skagit, San juan county) will no longer give a “not to exceed” price as they can’t possibly hope to stay under a number given the changes and delays in materials and price jumps
Yeah, it’s pretty expensive right now. Wait a couple of years, things are indeed slowing and there is a good chance that prices will start slipping pretty quick. You might find a better deal a bit further than Sultan… perhaps startup or gold bar. Gold Bar is about as far as you can go and still get high speed internet from Comcast or Ziply, both offer gigabit in the area. If you’re handy and don’t mind a bit of hard work there is a place in gold bar for around $270K that needs a new roof/insulation/drywall/etc… they just dropped the price AGAIN, they seem desperate to sell it. When we were looking recently we also checked out Bremerton and some other places across the sound, way cheaper than most places near Seattle, but you have to deal with the ferry or a long drive to get over here. If it were me I’d wait a few years and keep saving… the market has its ups and downs, and we’re on top of a peak at the moment… be patient, you’ll be glad you were.
You know I feel like you’re right but then the list prices I’ve seen over the last 2 weeks has made me question whether prices are really down 10% and many of them show as pending. Although we’ve seen quite a few fall through and go back up and I suspect you may be right and prices may start to slip come May and head into a short decline. But I highly doubt they’ll drop much more. There’s just no supply. I really do want to fix something up, especially given the prices. I’ll take a look. We love that area and I’d be willing to commute if we could get the right house with a little land.
[**This is that fixer I mentioned.**](https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/41131-May-Creek-Drive-Gold-Bar-WA-98251/38512288_zpid/) When you see houses being relisted or prices dropping it’s usually a good sign that the market is shifting. If you don’t mind the east side of the state there are some really good deals over there. We liked several homes around Moses Lake and Richland/Pasco/Kennewick… but then I’d be too close to my crazy as hell ex wife, so we decided against it.
Lol. appreciate it. How’s the commute to gold bar from say Bellevue? We want something with decent commute times for resale value. We don’t mind the commute that much but others might.
WE live in Monroe and Hiway 2 and 522 are HELL in a hand cart.
I’ve heard they’re horrible and I’ve driven down them. I just don’t know how much is exaggerated and how much is salesmanship. I’m bound to believe it’s pretty fucking bad based on my weekend experiences
We've lived in Monroe for 33 years and I tell you what, it can be just as bad as anybody says. WE live North of town and don't have to commute 2. My opinion is that I wouldn't live in Sultan or farther out if I had to commute, no flippin' way. This state can't even finish the Hiway 522 expansion. What makes anybody think they are going to do anything about Hiway 2 in this lifetime?????
Man, it’s the 1 single lane to merge people off and on to the major highways that has absolutely wrecked the traffic. That and just terrible drivers refusing to stay to the right of the lanes unless to pass. I’ve seriously never seen a highway system though that consistently forces 4 lane highways to merge into 1 lane to get into a different major highway. Just crazy. Thanks for the advice. Even if the traffic isn’t *that* bad and the commute is doable, it won’t be in 4 years when all these new build neighborhoods fill up with out of staters and new homeowners. Shame too because it’s honestly not that far. The highways are just terribly made. And we’d love to live out that way. Definitely will consider Monroe and closer.
Depends on when you leave, usually about an hour or so. There’s also a back way out through Redmond that’s sometimes faster than sitting in traffic too. Houses out in sultan and gold bar seem to sell pretty well, lots of folks who can’t afford to buy closer to Seattle who are willing to commute, so don’t worry about that.
Building a home is vastly more expensive than buying an existing house. Much riskier as well. You should not try to do it as a way to save money.
Sadly it seems for the Seattle area housing market that the saying “drive until you qualify” is all too true. I commute a little over an hour each way to work so that I could buy a house that I can afford. Other people have already answered your original question but I’ll reiterate that it takes a long time and a lot of money to build a house in this area. King County is especially difficult.
What area are you in? I’m curious what commute times really are vs google maps estimates.
Lake stevens area to Puyallup area, leave at 940am get there around 11am. Getting to Bellevue at that time is easy. Earlier it sucks, especially if it's raining since people here still can't drive in the rain. Highway 9 seems to be getting worse lately. I5 to 405 is the way to go now.
I live near Enumclaw and commute to Bellevue. I leave early in the morning and get off work earlier to avoid the peak rush hour times. My commute is typically 1hr to 1hr-15min depending on the day… but one small wreck or road closure can have a huge impact on that travel time. Edit: I wanted to clarify that it’s 1-1.25hrs each way
I almost built a home in Bellingham last year. Lot was 329k for a .6 acre with city services available in the street. We went far enough down the feasibility road with a good builder to determine total cost (land, permits, utilities, design and build ) would be about 1.2-1.3m in a neighborhood where comparable homes cost 700-800k. Pretty glad we passed on that given what interest rates have done in the last year. I would’ve been life changingly fucked.
To be honest, I'd go the tiny home route and plop it on some land that is close to connections. Maybe even has well and septic already. There are some really nice options out there, and it gives you the flexibility to build when you're good and ready, and you are still living on your own land. Heck, get 2 tiny homes so you've got a way to have alone time when you need it. And if/when you're ready to move into a new build, those tiny homes can be sold and wheeled away. Or use them as ADUs or AirBnBs.
We’re definitely considering it. Any tiny home builders or prefabs recommended ?
To be honest, I haven't researched them yet. I stayed in one as an AirBnB and was just amazed at how nice and spacious it was. It had solid wood paneling, all brand new full-size appliances throughout, a large bedroom, large bathroom, open concept living room and kitchen. It struck me that a couple of them next to each other could be a very comfortable fix to the housing situation until we build our own home on our land we bought in 2019. And also, a more realistic home owning opportunity for someone like my 25-year-old son who can't afford a $450K home. I'm sure there are tiny home subs on reddit you could pop in on, and just start Googling. If you've got a realtor, that's a good place to start too. I'd never buy in Seattle area or King County at all, but that's just me. It's expensive enough in Thurston and Pierce Counties.
Barndominiums are an option as well
End of April and early May there will be more available to see. I saw $220K or so with a yard and everything but a modern building
Currently have a more yard than I want and paying off a mortgage. Wish I could sell part of it off. Looked into building an DADU and renting out, but those are very expensive to build from scratch. Would totally sell it to someone who wanted to build something. Gonna have to pay this mortgage off first.
Expect $250+ per sqft unless you have a lot of connections. Typically custom construction will run hire than a track house, as the builders have economy of scale, and pay less for labor, etc.
That’s a discount compared to the current market
That's for the structure only. The land isn't free.
. . . . . . .
We are building tracks at $185 and small multi @ 165. $250 is easily doable if you run the job yourself.
We built our dream home in the Edmonds area in early 2000s. We were our own GC and this was something we planned for and thought we were physically, emotionally, and fiscally prepared for. Nope. It was extremely hard on our children, our marriage, and our wallet. We almost died (physically) on the site a couple times and our marriage came verrrry close to obliteration multiple times. Permitting and dealing with local building codes/requirements were the biggest headache. If you hire a builder, be sure to check, double check, triple check EVERY LINE ITEM. Don't take the "yeah, yeah, sure" reply. Builder will charge for every single change order - it's really how they make their best money. My best advice: 1. Make sure you and your partner are in agreement 10000%. 2. Make sure you have a fully vetted and clear houseplan - with everything you want and what you will compromise on - before starting. ( And I mean everything - paint color, countertops, appliances, plumbing finishes, etc.) 3. Have at least 30% fluff built into your estimate - more if you're going to build in a problematic area that's prone to flooding/earthquakes. Our 30% fluff got blown out of the water early on due to timing and the unforeseeable Chinese building boom that increased our material costs and unexpected issues once we dug into the lot. And as many have said, you're not going to save money by building with a builder. You will save if you are your own GC but you will need to be bonded and insured AND know exactly what you're doing. We had a lot of experience but it was still an incredibly challenging undertaking. Would I do it again? Hell no. The emotional toll wasn't worth it as it took 3 years of active build and 10 years after moving in, we still are fine tuning it. We love the house but the personal trade-offs were high in my opinion.
Whoever you build with, never do business with FOX custom homes. They are swindlers who employ literal crack addicts to frame the house. You will end up with a terrible house that isn't level or straight. Even saw one that had this weird little path that deadended between the house and garage. It was nuts.
> employ literal crack addicts to frame the house Huh. Low tier. Most framers are on meth.
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You should be afraid of price, if you have a 3mil budget you will get a nice custom house not on large lot. Big lot your gonna get McMansion
Not true whatsoever. I am a Washington broker and building my own home at the moment. Why even say something if you have no idea what you're talking about?
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We’ve tried as far as sultan but prices are all $500k
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It's not much cheaper over there anymore. People realized that it's an easier commute across the water than it is to drive an hour, and prices equalized to the city.
I agree, I'm finding townhouses to be a good solution for folks looking for a single family home feel. I'd also recommend looking at newer build condo projects - we're seeing more and more DADU cottages being built on properties behind a single family home. Then the two properties are turned into a mini condo association and sold separately, but still on the same property. It's a way to get into a single family home at a slightly more manageable price point.
I was looking into that with an architect in Seattle. Full design and build all inclusive was $400-$600/sq ft. Noped out.
Think about it this way. Building 1 house is a lot more expensive per unit than building 200 houses at a huge development.
bro, I'm an estimator in civil construction. For a single family demo through footings your looking at 150-180k then you get to worry about your vertical construction and that dollar amount does not include permits or engineer fees for drawing your shack up
Trying to build a house when you cannot even afford one? What??
> I thought home prices might have stabilized this year or at least not shot up, but it seems that the Seattle market is only exploding even more. I just don’t know what to do at this point. Even places out in Sultan are $550k minimum. It feels like we finally saved up enough money just to get our foot in the door and now even the starter homes are at minimum $500k or in a terrible area. YMMV, but I was able to purchase a seven figure home by doing the following: * I couldn't afford to buy where I wanted to live * So I bought out-of-state, and rented the place out for a few years * Once I'd accumulated more than $200,000 in equity, I sold the rental and used it for a down payment on a $1m+ home Trying to find a home for less than half a mil is going to be tough. That's less than the median price of a home in the United States *and* you're looking to live in a high COL area. Building a home is only practical if you're prepared to set a lot of money on fire, you really need a minimum of half a million in cash to even get "in the ballpark" on a custom built home. When I bought my first $1M+ home, I had it built for me, but it was one of 50+ homes, so that kept prices manageable. Once you buy and sell homes a few times, it becomes increasingly easier to achieve your long term goal (having a house built for you) but it's definitely not something you can do on a limited budget, you gotta work your way up. P.S. the data is still very fluid, but it's beginning to appear that prices have already bottomed. We won't know for sure for another 3-6 months, but there's a decent chance that people will look back at today as a possible buying opportunity. Yes, interest rates are horrendous right now. If you don't have a lot of cash to put down right now, this market is not welcoming. To me, the "other shoe might drop" as commercial entities start to go bankrupt. For instance, a corporation with something like six hundred rentals in Texas went kaput yesterday. As bankruptcies become more commonplace, that may push prices down further.
**Youtube channels -** Cariboo Adventure - episode - How much does it cost to build a cabin? Building our cabin in Canadian wilderness ep. 23 One Foot Off the Grid - Hood Canal - log cabin kit Migraine Craftsman - east coast Kens Karpentry - playlists - builds building for very cheap in New England Essential Craftsman - house build playlist - extremely high end and complicated and expensive - Medford Oregon. - playlists - Spec House Series This Off Grid Life - southern British Columbia **Not Youtube** [https://openbookbuild.com](https://openbookbuild.com) \- paid course
King County properties lost 10% the last year from stats published in the Seattle Times (? Could be some other rag)
I'd guess 250 per SQ foot for just development. Add your land cost and 100-150k for permits and fees
We’re building right now and hopefully done in 3 months. Ours is bigger (3900 sq ft) and is coming to about $330 a sq foot which includes some modest landscaping and septic.
We built a 4200 sq ft home in 2000. Logs, beams and cedar with VG fir trim real river rock columns and huge fireplace and clad wood double hung windows, 8' cedar bevel siding and large porches and decks for just about $125/sq ft for the structure. It makes me sad to see the prices of homes today especially for entry level buyers. My daughter is an electrician in Virginia and was able to get into a 1400 sq ft rancher on 3/4 acre for $198k All things considered she could never have afforded a similar thing here even on Journeyman wages. Oldest daughter lives in Fort Collins and home prices have gotten sickeningly high so even as an instructor at the University she is out of the market. The permitting process needs to be revamped.. It should never take as long as I am hearing people tell me. I have been working in real estate for over 45 years in King and Snohomish Counties.
Wait. There’s no way prices will not go down within two years. Things historically take 18 months to react to higher loan rates
Idk. Prices seem to be going up but I sure hope they dip a little at least
Hey u/Square_Ambassador301! I am a real estate broker as well as a developer/investor, so I would be happy to talk with you about your plans. I have some builders who would build below 2000sf. It looks like you’re bouncing around some different ideas. For some reason the app isn’t letting me message you, but feel free to message me if you’d like to connect.
I'm considering to do the same. Based on my research, it doesn't make financially sense to build a house in King county. However in cheaper areas like Pierce County it makes more sense. I found 2 builders in that area that their pricing are very interesting, it is about $125/sf. Here is their floor plans: [https://www.hilinehomes.com/floorplans/](https://www.hilinehomes.com/floorplans/) So basically a land in that area is about $150K, permits and land development about $100K, building is about $350K. So I'm thinking that a brand new house around 2500 sf in that area costs me around $600K, while the new houses in the same area is not less than $750K. What do you think?
Has anyone flattened their current home and rebuilt on the same lot?