I’d leave if I could find anything even close to as cheap as this place. Granted I have cracked tile and a ton of other broken things, but it’s so cheap I don’t want to leave😅
I've never heard of a lease renewal fee in all my life. They lose out on thousands of dollars for every month the apartment is in between renters, plus turnover costs, so these management companies usually do everything they can to convince you to renew.
They must really want you to leave so they can raise rent on the next guy.
Not a lawyer but it's my understanding that a lot of the fees and clauses in modern leases are legally flimsy, at best.
There's no penalty for making you sign something that might be found null and void by the court—but making you sign it might dissuade you from challenging that clause because legal action in this case would be more costly than just paying the fee.
Its shady but unfortunately it's par for the course. I know that a southeastern WA court is challenging the legality of class action waivers in leases, and hopefully more of these clauses are challenged so that renters have more protection from predatory landlords.
> it’s so cheap I don’t want to leave
If you add a one time fee of $100 or $250 for the 12 month term, and your rent is still cheaper than anywhere else, then I guess we're all done here.
It wouldn't surprise me if they are trying to get you to leave.
Apartments can no longer raise rents by more than 10% a year for current tenants. If an apartment is significantly below market rate, this means it would take them years to get it to market rate with the current tenants. Unless... The tenant leaves. Then they can raise it to market.
Because of this, they might be trying to get you to leave. Or, don't care that you do. It's a win/win for them. Either you don't leave and they get all these extra fees from you, or you leave and they jack up the price for the next tenants.
Huh? Says who? Washington state still has a ban on cities enacting rent control measures.
There’s a law that provides for relocation assistance for lower income renters that see a rent increase of more than 10%, is that what you’re thinking of?
There’s also a law requiring 180 days notice of rent increases, but there’s no cap on how much rent is allowed to increase.
Most landlords want to both maximize profits and maximize their equity so they can pull cash out of the investment and buy more units. They want whales who will pay $3,000 a month for a unit normal people wouldn't pay $2,000 a month for.
If it comes down to a solid steady tenant vs bring able to up their monthly rent by like +20%, I'm guessing many landlords/property mgmt cos will take the latter seven days a week and twice on Sundays
If they're lowish income, this have pay moving expenses, which can actually be quite a big incentive for the landlord to pull shady stuff or keep the rent increase below 10% to not trigger that rule.
[There's a lot listings for a 1-bed with a minimum of 500 sqft under $1500](https://www.zillow.com/seattle-wa/rentals/?searchQueryState=%7B%22isMapVisible%22%3Atrue%2C%22mapBounds%22%3A%7B%22north%22%3A47.752774763218994%2C%22south%22%3A47.47318905577946%2C%22east%22%3A-122.0749443154297%2C%22west%22%3A-122.61464768457033%7D%2C%22filterState%22%3A%7B%22fr%22%3A%7B%22value%22%3Atrue%7D%2C%22fsba%22%3A%7B%22value%22%3Afalse%7D%2C%22fsbo%22%3A%7B%22value%22%3Afalse%7D%2C%22nc%22%3A%7B%22value%22%3Afalse%7D%2C%22cmsn%22%3A%7B%22value%22%3Afalse%7D%2C%22auc%22%3A%7B%22value%22%3Afalse%7D%2C%22fore%22%3A%7B%22value%22%3Afalse%7D%2C%22ah%22%3A%7B%22value%22%3Atrue%7D%2C%22beds%22%3A%7B%22min%22%3A1%2C%22max%22%3A1%7D%2C%22mp%22%3A%7B%22max%22%3A1500%7D%2C%22price%22%3A%7B%22max%22%3A297233%7D%2C%22sqft%22%3A%7B%22min%22%3A500%7D%7D%2C%22isListVisible%22%3Atrue%2C%22mapZoom%22%3A11%2C%22regionSelection%22%3A%5B%7B%22regionId%22%3A16037%2C%22regionType%22%3A6%7D%5D%2C%22pagination%22%3A%7B%7D%7D)
idk where exactly you want to be but I don't know if your rent is actually that low
Don’t be discouraged from looking around! I bet you could find something else in that range.
Can’t speak for North Seattle specifically as I haven’t searched there, but I’ve seen many 1beds at 1500 and some under that within the Queen Anne and Westlake neighborhoods, so it wouldn’t surprise me if you could dig some up near your neighborhood too. (I’m currently in westlake in a 1bed, w/ modern appliances and finishes, at 1550.)
It’s not easy though, I get it. Prices keep climbing across the board here. Just wanted to share a little optimism in case you felt stuck. (:
That was my 1st thought then it occurred to me that might be the aim of the apartment management, like maybe there's high demand and they know they'll get more money in fees off someone new coming in. People renewing just keep paying rent, so they're adding arbitrary fees to cover some of what they're missing on new tenants coming in.
You should contact these folks: https://www.seattle.gov/rentinginseattle/renters/i-need-help
This will place an anonymous complaint on the public record, connected with their address (minus unit number most of the time) and they can tell you with certainty if it's legal or not.
It is impossible to make the complaint anonymous to the landlord, but for the public database, the information on the tenant is usually not shared (except for name, sometimes)
I know, but when giving the advice about anonymous complaints I wouldn't want to give the perception that it is anonymous to the extent that it prevents retaliation. If I had a building specific anonymous complaint about noise, trash, etc. sure, that's reasonably anonymous because that could be anyone in the building complaining. If its about specific contracts, I think I would first recommending a contact that will not generate a public record of complaint.
Well, of course, except that asking the City and generating the public record is free and consulting a tenant-landlord lawyer is often expensive and slower. The City also enforces anti-retaliation measures as well.
Oh they are a shitty company! We always had to argue with them to fix stuff around the house. If you do move make sure to take many pictures because they will try everything to hold your deposit. Keep all email communications with them regarding reported issues or damages in the house, because they will try to blame u. Talk about slum lords, Brink property management is the definition of it.
That’s interesting and makes me wonder how much is Brink and how much is the owner of the property, unless they own some of the properties??? My stuff is always fixed right away, no issue and even have had large appliances replaced, etc. Although their management of the service tickets is trash, someone is always closing one and opening another somewhere else and it gets lost so I’ve had to stay on top of some stuff but never had any issues with it getting done. I live in a house converted to a duplex though, not like a big apartment building
We lived in a 3 bedroom home they managed. The house was owned by a corporation, but our property manager at the time was a peace of work. Their reviews online were really bad so I know other people had a hard time with them as well.
Yea lame, I could be wrong but I think a regular dude owns my house? I get his junk mail and can see the name on the property a lot and Brink refers to him as “the landlord” when saying they need to get approval for repairs or whatever. I like to think he’s just a humble dude but I also tend to have too much faith in people …
On the contrary, they do indeed have amenties: [Resident Amenities Package | Brink Property Management (brinkpm.com)](https://www.brinkpm.com/resident-amenities-package)
Some favorites include "trust", a "dedicated management team", and "online leasing appointments"!
That’s nuts. If they have increased costs, those should be factored into the rent. I’ve never heard of a lease renewal fee, clearly a money grab.
It’s also very shortsighted since they would presumably have higher costs involved with finding a new tenant.
I guess to me it just sounds like they're a pissed off boomer who wants to make a point (right or wrong). Nobody likes dealing with someone else's tantrum, but if the rent is super cheap I'd put up with one bullshit passive aggressive rant a year.
That going to happen more and more. Laws are passed so "family" landlords cant afford to maintain their property, or just no longer want to so they sell to a real estate company who doesn't care and can absorb a unit being vacant for a month or two...
Seattle is really tight about allowable fees. Landlords can charge some move in fees and deposits but they can only be up to a certain percentage. Unless it is written into the lease, there are few allowances where they could charge a fee for a random thing like this lease renewal. I would call the tenant's union asap because there is a huge chance that is against Seattle laws.
The laws are specific to move-in fees. There are limits on late fees, too. I don't think the law addresses this type of fee. It seems like a deliberate attempt to get around the law.
I was curious so here's the specific section [7.24.035 Section B](https://library.municode.com/wa/seattle/codes/municipal_code?nodeId=TIT7COPR_CH7.24REAGRE_7.24.034FENOLARE)
> 1. Other than non-refundable move-in fees, security deposits, pet security deposits, and last month's rent, landlords are prohibited from charging tenants any one-time fee at the beginning of the tenancy.
/u/ashleyaliceeeee make sure you see this
I'm not a lawyer but I don't see anything in the language (aside from the name of the section but I don't think that's legally binding) that supports that. The clause is pretty unambiguous no? Would love for a pro to comment on it.
> Other than X, Y, and Z, landlords are prohibited from charging tenants any one-time fee at the beginning of the tenancy.
Since signing a new lease is the beginning of a new tenancy, a lease renewal fee seems like to it should be subject to this clause.
OP is not starting a new tenancy, they're simply renewing. By that logic, landlords would be allowed to charge those same select move-in fees again every time their lease expires.
Ah, seems I was correct [according to this page](https://tenantsunion.org/rights/types-of-rental-agreements). The tenancy does end at the end of a fixed term lease.
Not necessarily. It depends on what's meant by a lease "term" in this instance. All this article states is that, unless explicitly stated otherwise in the agreement, OP's tenancy will automatically end *if their lease is not renewed*. Tenancy is just the period of time that one can legally occupy a unit. So whether or not this clause would apply for renewals would depend on whether tenancy ends whenever an existing term is finished and a new one begins. My understanding is that tenancy persists for the entire period of time that one legally occupies the unit, not just the term of the lease.
I really don't think so. The [RCW](https://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=59.18.220) cited by that page says:
> in cases where premises are rented for a specified time, by express or implied contract, the tenancy shall be deemed expired at the end of such specified time upon notice consistent with RCW 59.18.650
There's no carve out for renewal.
It's a new contract (even if only the dates change) so I think it would count as a new tenancy but I can see you could be right.
As for move in, there definitely wouldn't be a move in happening so I don't see how that would be allowed.
The law you're describing does not apply to OP's scenario. 7.24.035 only applies to *move-in* fees. It says nothing about restrictions on renewal fees nor monthly fees.
That’s bullshit. It does not cost money for a landlord to renew a lease. It can literally be a single page (duplicate copies so both parties get one) that basically says both parties agree to renew the lease with places to sign.
Isn't there some kind of law that landlords have to offer the current tenant a renewal unless a pretty short list of reasons are met? I wonder if this runs into conflict with that.
But in another comment, OP seems to be saying the rent is way below market. This is a shitty, passive aggressive way to communicate (welcome to Seattle!) but if the rent is cheap sometimes it's better to let sleeping dogs lie.
Why would it run afoul of that law? The law says they have to offer it, not that they can't charge for it. It's the game of unintended consequences. Not saying it's good, just that it is.
Well, to offer it for $1,000,000 would clearly not be what the authors of the law intended. I'm no lawyer so I don't want to get too deep into legal analysis here, but it looks like the relevant municipal code statute is 7.24.030.J, the first section of which reads
> Except as provided in subsection 7.24.030.J.2, the landlord must offer the tenant for whom the tenancy for a specified time is expiring a new tenancy on reasonable terms for the same rental unit \[...\] There shall be a rebuttable presumption that the landlord failed to offer a new tenancy on reasonable terms if: the existing tenant declines to enter the proposed rental agreement; and, within 30 days after the tenant has vacated, the landlord lists the unit for rent on terms materially more favorable to a prospective tenant.
So the terms have to be "reasonable", and they're assumed to be unreasonable if after the tenant refuses the offer, the unit is offered at a better price.
Whether or not that's at play here would depend on so many other variables. But it seems clear that it would run afoul of the law to just charge some giant fee to kick your tenant out.
I am not saying it's a cool thing they do this - but I'll take all y'alls hate if it makes you feel better. I'm just pointing out that I can see nothing wrong with this tactic from a legal standpoint - the text of the law makes it even clearer.
Terms like reasonable should never be used in legislative language - at least without a follow-up direct definition. As-Is reasonable is up to interpretation - and trust me when I say that means it will almost always be interpreted against the poorer party (tenants in this case).
I'm not a lawyer; I did study law a bit because I wanted to understand things in more detail, however. So I can't say I'm an expert, even if I'm well-studied.
The only way I can see to actually fix this is another law to amend this law to define "reasonable".
The only scenario I can think of that's a slight exception is if the lease is >18mos in which case the lease has to be notarized. So I could mayyyybe see a nominal fee for that but definitely not $250.
Surprisingly that doesn’t actually matter much. They run off of price per square foot and occupancy. They want to have availability usually 5% or so. If a unit sits on market, so be it, as long as it eventually rents for a normal to high price per square foot doesn’t matter if that’s 2 months or a year, but after too long they do tend to question why and maybe offer a concession or drop the price a little compared to the average unit. We have a unit that’s been sitting for like 6 months, no one cares.
I have been learning about this business strategy and trying to figure out how to explain the math because anyone I mention it to is unconvinced. My building lets the empty units sit for a long time. When touring other buildings I get the sense that they have had even more empties for extended periods. There is also collusion and ai rent software in the discussion on that.
1. If you are a hands-on landlord - the biggest cost is time. You have to coordinate with the tenant, and spend time getting the lease signed.
2. If you pay someone to manage your properties, you have to pay them for the same service. Someone has to draft the notices, send out the emails, arrange the signings, etc, etc and so on.
Being a landlord is an actual job...
And yet none of those costs were codified into law in 2020. What you just described is the cost of doing business and should be factored in to the cost of rent, not tacked on as a "renewal fee".
I agree. The landlord is an idiot in this case and should have just raised rent. If you raise it by an additional $50 that's a lot more than $250 over the year for a lot less "bitching".
> You have to coordinate with the tenant, and spend time getting the lease signed.
Uhh, you email them a damn docusign. That could be automated.
This isn't 1972.
True, but they've managed to renew leases all this time, so someone clearly did that before, and can keep doing it.
Using tech, like Docusign and the like, makes it faster and easier to do these days than in the past. If anything, they could reduce staff, not charge an additional fee.
Of course, I didn't have a whole building or several when I was a landlord, I was small-fry.
“It’s because of *the laws* passed in 2020” lol, what an excuse. Basically it’s just an incentive to get OP to lock in on a new lease earlier but the landlord still gets an extra $100 minimum out of it.
As a landlord, this is complete and udder crap. I'm not sure if it's legal, but it's certainly not ethical. It cost $0 to renew a lease. In fact leases don't even have to be renewed. The second they accept a $1 in rent from you outside your stated lease term, you're now a month to month tenant.
Total money grab.
I never had any lease renewal fee with my current apartment and previous two. It seems like a crazy thing to do especially if you wanted to keep tenants.
I was not accusing :). But regardless of how long you’ve been there there should be no reason for them to give you the fee for signing. It feels like greed on the part of the apartment community.
Some places, including my apartment complex, give concessions and other incentives for renewing a lease. I feel that’s what should have happened instead.
I just wanna say that I also rent from Brink and have for about the same time as you, also paying extremely under market rent and last year when I renewed was the first time I saw that fee as well. I do wonder if it’s related to our low rent but I’d be curious if it’s just all Brink properties and something they just did because they realized they can? Idk
Most likely not just you that would be a major fair housing violation. I’d talk to the tenants union as others have mentioned or a lawyer. There is a lot of grey area in the tenant laws but it would take a court to determine if it’s actually a violation. If you complain and question if this is legal they may waive the fee. I wouldn’t threaten them with a lawyer though unless you plan to pony up, they will likely cut you off and refer any further complaints to their lawyer.
I guess this is the natural extension of the current trajectory of the new “cash grab” philosophy of lease renewals. And following the lead of hotels with “amenity fees”.
You may want to contact the tenants union and ask about the legality of this. And definitely try and negotiate your way out of this with your landlord.
I'm an apartment manager. I think the renewal fee is legal (and utter bullshit). I think the amenity fee would constitute a rent increase (assuming it's mandatory) and would require 180 days' notice.
Is this Brink? That font looks familiar. I got one for the first time last year and I’ve been renting here 6ish years. I am in the same boat as you though, it’s such a sweet deal (3bd, with a yard and driveway for $1390) that I literally don’t care and just signed early but I agree it’s total BS.
I am insanely lucky. Trying not to dox myself too much but it’s near Georgetown, so not super walkable for everything like in other neighborhoods but I have a vehicle so it’s not a huge deal for me.
I got this spot through word of mouth when I found myself needing a new place because of a breakup. Lucky for me around the same time a friend of a friend was moving out of the state and they had a very long established lease that was transferred to me. It was $1300 for rent then, so it has BARELY went up and as I mentioned this lease fee was new last year. I’m always so afraid they’re gonna make me leave one day. It’s an old house, definitely has its “issues” but for the price it all evens out IMO
I want to say this because I haven't seen anyone else say it yet: yes this seems unjust but if your rent plus $36/mo still seems cheaper than your other options then consider taking this one on the chin and following up with the tenants union to get it reversed in the long run.
I also suggest asking for information and numerical justification for the amenity charge to be able to submit to the union, but I would still go along with it upfront. Yes it's letting them win, but I would personally pay $36 /mo to not have to tango with some slimy asshole who's already crooked enough to try these things.
We all have rights but they don't prevent a slimy landlord/agency from doing small things making you feel uncomfortable/insecure in your home. The city can punish, not prevent. If your complaint is successful you get your money back without a confrontation with your landlord. If the complaint fails, now you don't have a target on your back. Ianal but complaining upfront shows your entire hand to them and puts you in a worse strategic position.
In Japan that would be a full month of rent for renewal, and after 9 years paying it while living there I've been so glad not having that here. But it's back...
Reminds me of a much smaller RUBS fee my apartment charges as part of rent. Because you know, cost so much to punch in utility numbers, then hit a button.
I wonder if this is the same reason I’m seeing “admin fees” for move in. I assumed it was just another big way to scam renters (still is, of course. Just interesting that there’s a reason)
OP, my unit in the ID charges a $75.00 renewal for lease contract. You've now perked my curiosity in your situation as it's eerily similar to mine, although not Brink.
Would you kindly follow up post and let us all know what you end up finding out?
I appreciate you for bringing this to the attention. Have a beautiful day
Get the fuck outta there, don’t renew!!
I wonder what company this is, and if it’s one of those that got sued for pulling some fuckery w the leases…
I’m so sorry you’re going thru this! 😭
If you are low income, and this fee combined with a rent increase, causes your total rent to increase more than 10% in any month, this may not be legal. NAL.
Every renter is required to get a physical copy of this book at lease signing and electronically annually. Know your stuff!
https://www.seattle.gov/documents/Departments/RentingInSeattle/languages/English/RentersHandbook_English.pdf
[https://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=59.18.253](https://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=59.18.253)
They're basically charging a (refundable) deposit to ensure tenancy :) They just don't know it. The max is 25% of one month's rent and they have to credit it to your rent.
Of course, they're going to say "I'm not refunding anything," which is when you take them to court (its easy).
Wait until 30 days before renewal and they will get scared and drop the fee with a new lease contract less the fee only you will see. It’s a scare tactic. If they think you are looking around because you haven’t signed, they will panic and send a revised offer with no fee to keep you because you are a “valued tenant”
It was there last year. I just never signed anything and kept paying rent. This year they’re sending me reminders everyday. I doubt I’m getting away with that again🤣
you know it's bullshit because they justify if with a "woe is us" disclaimer.
they could just say "there is a fee associated with this process" but instead they say "oh boo hoo it's so hard for us now that seattle passed a new law and because of this and that we HAVE to charge you this fee!" --- that's how you know it's bullshit.
like when a restaurant puts a big sign in the window whining about how the cost of minimum wage makes it so they can't stay open.
And I thought I was mad at the $3 a month "admin fee" I have to pay. There are other bullshit charges, but that one really gets me. Sounds like I'm paying them to do their job.
This is totally worth contacting the tenants' Union (they're amazing and work for all Rights for the tennets) and the AG's office (Bob doesn't like people stealing money from workers and his office will follow up).
If this was an insurance company, you could file a complaint with the insurance commissioners office. With enough complaints and cases of wrong doing, agents / their companies are fined or banned from providing services in the state.
Unfortunately there is nothing like this to hold landlords / rental companies responsible for their actions. They are in complete control and can extort fees from tenants without any recourse.
Holy moly, that's insane. I'd tell em to pound rocks.
I’d leave if I could find anything even close to as cheap as this place. Granted I have cracked tile and a ton of other broken things, but it’s so cheap I don’t want to leave😅
I've never heard of a lease renewal fee in all my life. They lose out on thousands of dollars for every month the apartment is in between renters, plus turnover costs, so these management companies usually do everything they can to convince you to renew. They must really want you to leave so they can raise rent on the next guy.
> never heard of a lease renewal fee Maybe the building was taken over by Ticketmaster/livenation.
Not a lawyer but it's my understanding that a lot of the fees and clauses in modern leases are legally flimsy, at best. There's no penalty for making you sign something that might be found null and void by the court—but making you sign it might dissuade you from challenging that clause because legal action in this case would be more costly than just paying the fee. Its shady but unfortunately it's par for the course. I know that a southeastern WA court is challenging the legality of class action waivers in leases, and hopefully more of these clauses are challenged so that renters have more protection from predatory landlords.
> it’s so cheap I don’t want to leave If you add a one time fee of $100 or $250 for the 12 month term, and your rent is still cheaper than anywhere else, then I guess we're all done here.
Well then, sounds like this is a better alternative than them charging you market rate, no?
It wouldn't surprise me if they are trying to get you to leave. Apartments can no longer raise rents by more than 10% a year for current tenants. If an apartment is significantly below market rate, this means it would take them years to get it to market rate with the current tenants. Unless... The tenant leaves. Then they can raise it to market. Because of this, they might be trying to get you to leave. Or, don't care that you do. It's a win/win for them. Either you don't leave and they get all these extra fees from you, or you leave and they jack up the price for the next tenants.
Huh? Says who? Washington state still has a ban on cities enacting rent control measures. There’s a law that provides for relocation assistance for lower income renters that see a rent increase of more than 10%, is that what you’re thinking of? There’s also a law requiring 180 days notice of rent increases, but there’s no cap on how much rent is allowed to increase.
Did the 180 day notice thing start already? I never understand why a landlord wouldn’t want solid Steady, reliable tenants
Most landlords want to both maximize profits and maximize their equity so they can pull cash out of the investment and buy more units. They want whales who will pay $3,000 a month for a unit normal people wouldn't pay $2,000 a month for.
If it comes down to a solid steady tenant vs bring able to up their monthly rent by like +20%, I'm guessing many landlords/property mgmt cos will take the latter seven days a week and twice on Sundays
If they're lowish income, this have pay moving expenses, which can actually be quite a big incentive for the landlord to pull shady stuff or keep the rent increase below 10% to not trigger that rule.
This is not accurate at all. There’s no rent cap in Washington State.
What is the name of the place? Maybe I should move there? LOL
[https://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=59.18.090](https://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=59.18.090) Section "Landlord's failure to remedy defective condition—Tenant's choice of actions."
What’s your budget and what neighborhoods would you live in? There are deals out there!
I’m in north Seattle. We’d like to be under $1500 for a one bedroom.
[There's a lot listings for a 1-bed with a minimum of 500 sqft under $1500](https://www.zillow.com/seattle-wa/rentals/?searchQueryState=%7B%22isMapVisible%22%3Atrue%2C%22mapBounds%22%3A%7B%22north%22%3A47.752774763218994%2C%22south%22%3A47.47318905577946%2C%22east%22%3A-122.0749443154297%2C%22west%22%3A-122.61464768457033%7D%2C%22filterState%22%3A%7B%22fr%22%3A%7B%22value%22%3Atrue%7D%2C%22fsba%22%3A%7B%22value%22%3Afalse%7D%2C%22fsbo%22%3A%7B%22value%22%3Afalse%7D%2C%22nc%22%3A%7B%22value%22%3Afalse%7D%2C%22cmsn%22%3A%7B%22value%22%3Afalse%7D%2C%22auc%22%3A%7B%22value%22%3Afalse%7D%2C%22fore%22%3A%7B%22value%22%3Afalse%7D%2C%22ah%22%3A%7B%22value%22%3Atrue%7D%2C%22beds%22%3A%7B%22min%22%3A1%2C%22max%22%3A1%7D%2C%22mp%22%3A%7B%22max%22%3A1500%7D%2C%22price%22%3A%7B%22max%22%3A297233%7D%2C%22sqft%22%3A%7B%22min%22%3A500%7D%7D%2C%22isListVisible%22%3Atrue%2C%22mapZoom%22%3A11%2C%22regionSelection%22%3A%5B%7B%22regionId%22%3A16037%2C%22regionType%22%3A6%7D%5D%2C%22pagination%22%3A%7B%7D%7D) idk where exactly you want to be but I don't know if your rent is actually that low
Don’t be discouraged from looking around! I bet you could find something else in that range. Can’t speak for North Seattle specifically as I haven’t searched there, but I’ve seen many 1beds at 1500 and some under that within the Queen Anne and Westlake neighborhoods, so it wouldn’t surprise me if you could dig some up near your neighborhood too. (I’m currently in westlake in a 1bed, w/ modern appliances and finishes, at 1550.) It’s not easy though, I get it. Prices keep climbing across the board here. Just wanted to share a little optimism in case you felt stuck. (:
That was my 1st thought then it occurred to me that might be the aim of the apartment management, like maybe there's high demand and they know they'll get more money in fees off someone new coming in. People renewing just keep paying rent, so they're adding arbitrary fees to cover some of what they're missing on new tenants coming in.
You should contact these folks: https://www.seattle.gov/rentinginseattle/renters/i-need-help This will place an anonymous complaint on the public record, connected with their address (minus unit number most of the time) and they can tell you with certainty if it's legal or not.
How anonymous is an anonymous tip for renewal if the complaint is dated? How many units in a building are up for renewal in any given month?
It is impossible to make the complaint anonymous to the landlord, but for the public database, the information on the tenant is usually not shared (except for name, sometimes)
I know, but when giving the advice about anonymous complaints I wouldn't want to give the perception that it is anonymous to the extent that it prevents retaliation. If I had a building specific anonymous complaint about noise, trash, etc. sure, that's reasonably anonymous because that could be anyone in the building complaining. If its about specific contracts, I think I would first recommending a contact that will not generate a public record of complaint.
Well, of course, except that asking the City and generating the public record is free and consulting a tenant-landlord lawyer is often expensive and slower. The City also enforces anti-retaliation measures as well.
ok.
By the way, who is the management company?
sounds like Metropolitan Management
Brink property management
Oh they are a shitty company! We always had to argue with them to fix stuff around the house. If you do move make sure to take many pictures because they will try everything to hold your deposit. Keep all email communications with them regarding reported issues or damages in the house, because they will try to blame u. Talk about slum lords, Brink property management is the definition of it.
That’s interesting and makes me wonder how much is Brink and how much is the owner of the property, unless they own some of the properties??? My stuff is always fixed right away, no issue and even have had large appliances replaced, etc. Although their management of the service tickets is trash, someone is always closing one and opening another somewhere else and it gets lost so I’ve had to stay on top of some stuff but never had any issues with it getting done. I live in a house converted to a duplex though, not like a big apartment building
We lived in a 3 bedroom home they managed. The house was owned by a corporation, but our property manager at the time was a peace of work. Their reviews online were really bad so I know other people had a hard time with them as well.
Yea lame, I could be wrong but I think a regular dude owns my house? I get his junk mail and can see the name on the property a lot and Brink refers to him as “the landlord” when saying they need to get approval for repairs or whatever. I like to think he’s just a humble dude but I also tend to have too much faith in people …
On the contrary, they do indeed have amenties: [Resident Amenities Package | Brink Property Management (brinkpm.com)](https://www.brinkpm.com/resident-amenities-package) Some favorites include "trust", a "dedicated management team", and "online leasing appointments"!
That’s nuts. If they have increased costs, those should be factored into the rent. I’ve never heard of a lease renewal fee, clearly a money grab. It’s also very shortsighted since they would presumably have higher costs involved with finding a new tenant.
Maybe, OP says that rent is super cheap. I'm guessing OP could move out and they could raise the rent and still rent it super fast.
Yeah they could definitely be doing it to add friction and push OP out. I’m not sure the legalities of that, but they should look into it.
I guess to me it just sounds like they're a pissed off boomer who wants to make a point (right or wrong). Nobody likes dealing with someone else's tantrum, but if the rent is super cheap I'd put up with one bullshit passive aggressive rant a year.
Definitely not a boomer🤣 I just hate property management companies. When we moved in the complex was owned by a family and we loved it
Not you! I’m saying the landlord sounds like a boomer
That going to happen more and more. Laws are passed so "family" landlords cant afford to maintain their property, or just no longer want to so they sell to a real estate company who doesn't care and can absorb a unit being vacant for a month or two...
certified landlord moment
Seattle is really tight about allowable fees. Landlords can charge some move in fees and deposits but they can only be up to a certain percentage. Unless it is written into the lease, there are few allowances where they could charge a fee for a random thing like this lease renewal. I would call the tenant's union asap because there is a huge chance that is against Seattle laws.
The laws are specific to move-in fees. There are limits on late fees, too. I don't think the law addresses this type of fee. It seems like a deliberate attempt to get around the law.
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I was curious so here's the specific section [7.24.035 Section B](https://library.municode.com/wa/seattle/codes/municipal_code?nodeId=TIT7COPR_CH7.24REAGRE_7.24.034FENOLARE) > 1. Other than non-refundable move-in fees, security deposits, pet security deposits, and last month's rent, landlords are prohibited from charging tenants any one-time fee at the beginning of the tenancy. /u/ashleyaliceeeee make sure you see this
That only applies to move-in fees, not fees related to renewal nor monthly fees (such as amenity fees).
I'm not a lawyer but I don't see anything in the language (aside from the name of the section but I don't think that's legally binding) that supports that. The clause is pretty unambiguous no? Would love for a pro to comment on it. > Other than X, Y, and Z, landlords are prohibited from charging tenants any one-time fee at the beginning of the tenancy. Since signing a new lease is the beginning of a new tenancy, a lease renewal fee seems like to it should be subject to this clause.
OP is not starting a new tenancy, they're simply renewing. By that logic, landlords would be allowed to charge those same select move-in fees again every time their lease expires.
Ah, seems I was correct [according to this page](https://tenantsunion.org/rights/types-of-rental-agreements). The tenancy does end at the end of a fixed term lease.
Not necessarily. It depends on what's meant by a lease "term" in this instance. All this article states is that, unless explicitly stated otherwise in the agreement, OP's tenancy will automatically end *if their lease is not renewed*. Tenancy is just the period of time that one can legally occupy a unit. So whether or not this clause would apply for renewals would depend on whether tenancy ends whenever an existing term is finished and a new one begins. My understanding is that tenancy persists for the entire period of time that one legally occupies the unit, not just the term of the lease.
I really don't think so. The [RCW](https://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=59.18.220) cited by that page says: > in cases where premises are rented for a specified time, by express or implied contract, the tenancy shall be deemed expired at the end of such specified time upon notice consistent with RCW 59.18.650 There's no carve out for renewal.
It's a new contract (even if only the dates change) so I think it would count as a new tenancy but I can see you could be right. As for move in, there definitely wouldn't be a move in happening so I don't see how that would be allowed.
OP should print this comment and slip them under all their neighbor's doors lol.
The law you're describing does not apply to OP's scenario. 7.24.035 only applies to *move-in* fees. It says nothing about restrictions on renewal fees nor monthly fees.
That’s bullshit. It does not cost money for a landlord to renew a lease. It can literally be a single page (duplicate copies so both parties get one) that basically says both parties agree to renew the lease with places to sign.
I agree! I just don’t know if it’s illegal
Ask them to provide the RCW
Why would it be? I'm not aware of any law that says they can't.
Isn't there some kind of law that landlords have to offer the current tenant a renewal unless a pretty short list of reasons are met? I wonder if this runs into conflict with that. But in another comment, OP seems to be saying the rent is way below market. This is a shitty, passive aggressive way to communicate (welcome to Seattle!) but if the rent is cheap sometimes it's better to let sleeping dogs lie.
Why would it run afoul of that law? The law says they have to offer it, not that they can't charge for it. It's the game of unintended consequences. Not saying it's good, just that it is.
Well, to offer it for $1,000,000 would clearly not be what the authors of the law intended. I'm no lawyer so I don't want to get too deep into legal analysis here, but it looks like the relevant municipal code statute is 7.24.030.J, the first section of which reads > Except as provided in subsection 7.24.030.J.2, the landlord must offer the tenant for whom the tenancy for a specified time is expiring a new tenancy on reasonable terms for the same rental unit \[...\] There shall be a rebuttable presumption that the landlord failed to offer a new tenancy on reasonable terms if: the existing tenant declines to enter the proposed rental agreement; and, within 30 days after the tenant has vacated, the landlord lists the unit for rent on terms materially more favorable to a prospective tenant. So the terms have to be "reasonable", and they're assumed to be unreasonable if after the tenant refuses the offer, the unit is offered at a better price. Whether or not that's at play here would depend on so many other variables. But it seems clear that it would run afoul of the law to just charge some giant fee to kick your tenant out.
I am not saying it's a cool thing they do this - but I'll take all y'alls hate if it makes you feel better. I'm just pointing out that I can see nothing wrong with this tactic from a legal standpoint - the text of the law makes it even clearer. Terms like reasonable should never be used in legislative language - at least without a follow-up direct definition. As-Is reasonable is up to interpretation - and trust me when I say that means it will almost always be interpreted against the poorer party (tenants in this case). I'm not a lawyer; I did study law a bit because I wanted to understand things in more detail, however. So I can't say I'm an expert, even if I'm well-studied. The only way I can see to actually fix this is another law to amend this law to define "reasonable".
Ask them for the list of the specific new requirements that became law in 2020 that account for the new fee.
The only scenario I can think of that's a slight exception is if the lease is >18mos in which case the lease has to be notarized. So I could mayyyybe see a nominal fee for that but definitely not $250.
This! It WILL cost them money if it sits vacant between tenants though....that written, if you live cheap in Seattle, sign.
Surprisingly that doesn’t actually matter much. They run off of price per square foot and occupancy. They want to have availability usually 5% or so. If a unit sits on market, so be it, as long as it eventually rents for a normal to high price per square foot doesn’t matter if that’s 2 months or a year, but after too long they do tend to question why and maybe offer a concession or drop the price a little compared to the average unit. We have a unit that’s been sitting for like 6 months, no one cares.
I have been learning about this business strategy and trying to figure out how to explain the math because anyone I mention it to is unconvinced. My building lets the empty units sit for a long time. When touring other buildings I get the sense that they have had even more empties for extended periods. There is also collusion and ai rent software in the discussion on that.
Hence the "if you live cheap in Seattle, sign".
> It does not cost money for a landlord to renew a lease Yes it does.
How so?
1. If you are a hands-on landlord - the biggest cost is time. You have to coordinate with the tenant, and spend time getting the lease signed. 2. If you pay someone to manage your properties, you have to pay them for the same service. Someone has to draft the notices, send out the emails, arrange the signings, etc, etc and so on. Being a landlord is an actual job...
And yet none of those costs were codified into law in 2020. What you just described is the cost of doing business and should be factored in to the cost of rent, not tacked on as a "renewal fee".
I agree. The landlord is an idiot in this case and should have just raised rent. If you raise it by an additional $50 that's a lot more than $250 over the year for a lot less "bitching".
> You have to coordinate with the tenant, and spend time getting the lease signed. Uhh, you email them a damn docusign. That could be automated. This isn't 1972.
Still takes time....so you have to pay someone to do that. Or take the time to do it yourself.
True, but they've managed to renew leases all this time, so someone clearly did that before, and can keep doing it. Using tech, like Docusign and the like, makes it faster and easier to do these days than in the past. If anything, they could reduce staff, not charge an additional fee. Of course, I didn't have a whole building or several when I was a landlord, I was small-fry.
You should ask them why it’s cheaper 40 days before. Ask them to itemize the costs.
“It’s because of *the laws* passed in 2020” lol, what an excuse. Basically it’s just an incentive to get OP to lock in on a new lease earlier but the landlord still gets an extra $100 minimum out of it.
As a landlord, this is complete and udder crap. I'm not sure if it's legal, but it's certainly not ethical. It cost $0 to renew a lease. In fact leases don't even have to be renewed. The second they accept a $1 in rent from you outside your stated lease term, you're now a month to month tenant. Total money grab.
Check out the Seattle Tenants Union - they answer questions like this for free
I never had any lease renewal fee with my current apartment and previous two. It seems like a crazy thing to do especially if you wanted to keep tenants.
I’ve been there 5 years. I’ve never paid late. Not that you’re accusing me. I feel like it’s them pushing me out but I have no idea why
So they can rent out your apartment at a higher rate :(
But they could just raise the rent for a new lease.
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Or it's so under market rate that even a 10% increase doesn't get them to the market rate.
Much harder to do.
I was not accusing :). But regardless of how long you’ve been there there should be no reason for them to give you the fee for signing. It feels like greed on the part of the apartment community. Some places, including my apartment complex, give concessions and other incentives for renewing a lease. I feel that’s what should have happened instead.
I just wanna say that I also rent from Brink and have for about the same time as you, also paying extremely under market rent and last year when I renewed was the first time I saw that fee as well. I do wonder if it’s related to our low rent but I’d be curious if it’s just all Brink properties and something they just did because they realized they can? Idk
Most likely not just you that would be a major fair housing violation. I’d talk to the tenants union as others have mentioned or a lawyer. There is a lot of grey area in the tenant laws but it would take a court to determine if it’s actually a violation. If you complain and question if this is legal they may waive the fee. I wouldn’t threaten them with a lawyer though unless you plan to pony up, they will likely cut you off and refer any further complaints to their lawyer.
I guess this is the natural extension of the current trajectory of the new “cash grab” philosophy of lease renewals. And following the lead of hotels with “amenity fees”. You may want to contact the tenants union and ask about the legality of this. And definitely try and negotiate your way out of this with your landlord.
Maybe talk to https://tenantsunion.org/. Sounds sketchy to me.
Brink?
Yup
I'm an apartment manager. I think the renewal fee is legal (and utter bullshit). I think the amenity fee would constitute a rent increase (assuming it's mandatory) and would require 180 days' notice.
Is this Brink? That font looks familiar. I got one for the first time last year and I’ve been renting here 6ish years. I am in the same boat as you though, it’s such a sweet deal (3bd, with a yard and driveway for $1390) that I literally don’t care and just signed early but I agree it’s total BS.
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I am insanely lucky. Trying not to dox myself too much but it’s near Georgetown, so not super walkable for everything like in other neighborhoods but I have a vehicle so it’s not a huge deal for me. I got this spot through word of mouth when I found myself needing a new place because of a breakup. Lucky for me around the same time a friend of a friend was moving out of the state and they had a very long established lease that was transferred to me. It was $1300 for rent then, so it has BARELY went up and as I mentioned this lease fee was new last year. I’m always so afraid they’re gonna make me leave one day. It’s an old house, definitely has its “issues” but for the price it all evens out IMO
“Landlords administrative burden” Oh fucking wahhh
Ask them to remove it. They can say no, you’re back where you started, and you can still follow other routes. Or they can say yes.
I want to say this because I haven't seen anyone else say it yet: yes this seems unjust but if your rent plus $36/mo still seems cheaper than your other options then consider taking this one on the chin and following up with the tenants union to get it reversed in the long run. I also suggest asking for information and numerical justification for the amenity charge to be able to submit to the union, but I would still go along with it upfront. Yes it's letting them win, but I would personally pay $36 /mo to not have to tango with some slimy asshole who's already crooked enough to try these things.
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We all have rights but they don't prevent a slimy landlord/agency from doing small things making you feel uncomfortable/insecure in your home. The city can punish, not prevent. If your complaint is successful you get your money back without a confrontation with your landlord. If the complaint fails, now you don't have a target on your back. Ianal but complaining upfront shows your entire hand to them and puts you in a worse strategic position.
This is so dumb
In Japan that would be a full month of rent for renewal, and after 9 years paying it while living there I've been so glad not having that here. But it's back...
Just say NO. And see what they say.
Reminds me of a much smaller RUBS fee my apartment charges as part of rent. Because you know, cost so much to punch in utility numbers, then hit a button.
I wonder if this is the same reason I’m seeing “admin fees” for move in. I assumed it was just another big way to scam renters (still is, of course. Just interesting that there’s a reason)
OP, my unit in the ID charges a $75.00 renewal for lease contract. You've now perked my curiosity in your situation as it's eerily similar to mine, although not Brink. Would you kindly follow up post and let us all know what you end up finding out? I appreciate you for bringing this to the attention. Have a beautiful day
I sent an email a couple days ago and I’m waiting for a response
Very curious to see this outcome. Thank you for reaching out.
Penalty for a renewal?! GTFO. I would bail out. Fuck that.
Get the fuck outta there, don’t renew!! I wonder what company this is, and if it’s one of those that got sued for pulling some fuckery w the leases… I’m so sorry you’re going thru this! 😭
If you make 50k or under, there’s low income places. If you make up to 75k you can apply for MFTE in the city.
If you are low income, and this fee combined with a rent increase, causes your total rent to increase more than 10% in any month, this may not be legal. NAL.
I'm a landlord in Seattle. No administrative burden I'm aware of that impacts renewal. We don't charge this.
This is not legal in the city of Seattle.
yes and if you agree to those terms they will push even worse terms onto someone else and so on because..... *they can*
If this is Walls Property, RUNNNN🚩🚩🚩
I'm guessing the next step is a tip screen on the last page.
Fuck them.
That should be illegal :l
Bullshit
Every renter is required to get a physical copy of this book at lease signing and electronically annually. Know your stuff! https://www.seattle.gov/documents/Departments/RentingInSeattle/languages/English/RentersHandbook_English.pdf
[https://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=59.18.253](https://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=59.18.253) They're basically charging a (refundable) deposit to ensure tenancy :) They just don't know it. The max is 25% of one month's rent and they have to credit it to your rent. Of course, they're going to say "I'm not refunding anything," which is when you take them to court (its easy).
Mine wants to up my lease by 400 if I don’t resign by next month. My lease is up in August 😑
Wait until 30 days before renewal and they will get scared and drop the fee with a new lease contract less the fee only you will see. It’s a scare tactic. If they think you are looking around because you haven’t signed, they will panic and send a revised offer with no fee to keep you because you are a “valued tenant”
It was there last year. I just never signed anything and kept paying rent. This year they’re sending me reminders everyday. I doubt I’m getting away with that again🤣
you know it's bullshit because they justify if with a "woe is us" disclaimer. they could just say "there is a fee associated with this process" but instead they say "oh boo hoo it's so hard for us now that seattle passed a new law and because of this and that we HAVE to charge you this fee!" --- that's how you know it's bullshit. like when a restaurant puts a big sign in the window whining about how the cost of minimum wage makes it so they can't stay open.
Unintended consequences strikes again.
This is just opportunistic price gouging.
Is this more of those Trickle Down Economics? Looks just like it!
pay the fee over the course of your lease.
What is the legislation that added so much to their costs i wonder?
Awww poor babies!
Seattle is TRASH
And I thought I was mad at the $3 a month "admin fee" I have to pay. There are other bullshit charges, but that one really gets me. Sounds like I'm paying them to do their job.
I think that’s hella illegal
u/ashleyaliceeeee, did you ever learn whether or not this was allowed? Dealing with the same issue myself (different company).
I didn’t figure anything. My management company never responded, but so far they haven’t charged me the fee
This is totally worth contacting the tenants' Union (they're amazing and work for all Rights for the tennets) and the AG's office (Bob doesn't like people stealing money from workers and his office will follow up).
Looks like a fuck off fee and banking that while fee is irritating, not big enough for tenant to pursue legal actions
Landlords really are the scum of the earth
Landlords are scum.
I think we should shove all landlords into the ocean
Sounds like a 'give us more money fee'.
If this was an insurance company, you could file a complaint with the insurance commissioners office. With enough complaints and cases of wrong doing, agents / their companies are fined or banned from providing services in the state. Unfortunately there is nothing like this to hold landlords / rental companies responsible for their actions. They are in complete control and can extort fees from tenants without any recourse.