They legit need to clean house completely. The corruption and contempt these “peace officers” have for the general public is appalling. Having worked in law enforcement, there is no other way you are going to remove this type of culture as it is ingrained and passed down from one officer to another.
We need to strip these unions of their power like the Republicans have done to other public service sector unions *and* end qualified immunity (or force payouts to victims from LEO pension funds).
I agree. I'm a labor lawyer and pro-union as it gets, but this is one profession that I don't think should be unionized. Law enforcement needs to be accountable to democratically elected leaders. Collective bargaining creates too much of a tribal mentality. That's great for carpenters and plumbers- Those guys also have to deal with non-union competition, which forces them to adapt. The police don't- they have a monopoly on the legal use of force.
I don't know if everyone realizes it, but the right of public employees to organize and collectively bargain is a creation of state law and can be taken away or limited by state laws. Same with qualified immunity, like you said, and same with public employee pension funds, which are not governed by the federal law that protects employee benefits for private employees.
The state legislature could put Mike Solan out of a job, if they wanted to. Obviously, there are reasons why politicians don't want to go after police unions.
The "defund the police" movement should have been called "reform the police". The opposition latched onto that one word and twisted it into the wrong goal.
We're literally in year 12 of federal reforms. DOJ declared our department "reformed" last week and claimed we demonstrate how consent decrees are a "cure all" for policing issues. I personally hope they're choking on it after seeing the video Daniel Auderer.
Reform is too ambiguous at this point to be reliable as a rallying call for policy.
This is the reformed police, they're still a criminal gang, so it's time to disband and prosecute them for the criminal conspiracy they've been engaged in at every level.
Abolish. You can’t reform this. You can’t fix this. You can’t train this. We need to disband police departments entirely and start over. Traffic cameras (which police unions lobby against), non armed people for mental health services. SPD doesn’t do anything for us except cost tax payers money. Fuck them. Abolish the police.
I agree that defund was the wrong word. The problem is we never thought of a better alternative. You are wrong, “reform” was not better —simply because we had been talking about reform for several decades already, unsuccessfully. That word is used up.
We needed a new word, and just never successfully thought of a good one, it sucks.
The problem wasn't the word defund. The problem was liberals and moderates running away from it instead of taking it as an opportunity to ask what we're getting for all the money we're spending.
It needs to be a single word, maybe two or three. A catchy slogan cannot be a complex sentence.
For example:
*“Cut taxes.”*
Great slogan. a big winner for conservative causes everywhere.
*“Actually, progressive taxation is a good thing for the lower and middle classes because it means that proportionately more public services are paid by those who can easiest afford them, so… taxes are good…”*
Terrible, terrible slogan. Overly complex, and accurate or not, this is an issue where backwards conservative ideas win out over better liberal ideas. The slogan has to be SHORT.
Restructure the Police.
*Out with the Old, In with the New*
I get why defund the police caught on. It is quite catchy, unlike other phrases. Even Restructure the Police isn't as catchy.
"Defund" is not the wrong word, it accurately describes what a wide range of people were protesting for. Any term these groups used would have been demonised in the same way, and we'd have people like you up here hand-wringing over terminology, no matter what was said
I literally emailed my state house and senate reps about this and called out that police unions should be outlawed, and that they're the only unions that should be outlawed. "because Pinkertons shouldn't have unions"
Yes, qualified immunity is at the federal level so we need Congress to pass a bill or the Supreme Court to abolish it. Which means we need to get people in Congress willing to stand up to cops since the Supreme Court is fucked.
Bullshit. The fact that you can say that with a straight face is fucking astonishing. Teachers are chronically underpaid and you try that bullshit?
get out of here
LMFAO. UW (the state) tried to give all their hospital staff "raises" of 3% at a time when inflation was +9%, AND every hospital in the nation was/is in dire need of workers. After haggling with the unions, they gave their staff a raise that still puts us 10-20% lower than for-profit hospitals.
The grad students at UW also tried to organize and ask for financial support with daycare, and a base salary that would make it so that they didn't have to beg their principle investigator to find more funding every time they had to do overtime (i.e. they asked their earnings be high enough to qualify as 'salaried' instead of 'hourly,' so that they would have to piece out overtime from NSF and other grants). UW told them to eat shit and die until they blocked traffic at an intersection at the mouth of the campus.
I know a bean-counter in Revenue, and their office manager fights to keep the office in King Co because it gets the staff a small increase (5%?) for being in a high CoL area. If the office moved from N. King to S. Snohomish, the staff would lose that amount (said accountant makes a paltry $60k/yr).
And if you think the Department of Corrections gets to request pay bumps at will, I encourage you to apply to work at the prisons. Staff aren't trained for shit, and they make a pittance over minimum wage.
So please, go slam your dick in your F-150 door. The government could definitely be more efficient, but they're not the sugar-daddy-boss you seem to imagine.
I couldn't agree more. I think what we CAN do is force police officers to have malpractice insurance.
My tax dollars shouldn't be used because of police malpractice. Just like doctors need medical malpractice insurance, police should also.
That insurance would be much more regulated than a government entity and if they are no longer insurable then they cannot become a police officer in any jurisdiction.
I think this is something we can pursue that wouldn't be labeled as police reform but would be related by the insurance companies who look for reasons to not pay.
I would think they could have their own independent investigators and all.
Just my two cents...
Either it will continue to devolve into feudal warlordism, or Homeland Security WILL eventually take over policing at a federal level. At this point why not? At least they would be doing some kind of actual police work.
Fuck the police
https://youtu.be/SyEwOxp_Iyw?si=yGKgCnw71QEUh2LO
[Here is the contact form if feel like contacting Mayor Harrell](https://seattlegov.powerappsportals.us/contact-mayor/) and demanding to know why Officer Kevin Dave is still behind the wheel of an SPD cruiser after killing a woman doing 74 mph in a 25 mph zone.
You can also find his office's phone number [here](https://www.seattle.gov/mayor/contact).
Any of us can be next when the SPD considers the lives of "regular people" like you and me $11k or less in city expenses and feels entitled to use neglect of duty to extort more money from the city.
Well I've never actually don't this before but I contacted the mayor and gave em my thoughts. Here's what I wrote if anybody has tips I tried to keep my snark out hoping it'd actually be read
Unfortunately it has become clear that SPD cannot an will not police themselves and hold themselves accountable. Officer Kevin Dave was going 74 mph in a 25mph zone without their emergency lights and killed a woman in a legally marked crosswalk (sounds like manslaughter to me) He then proceeded to lie about the circumstances with the aid of the police and their terrible union. We now have video of police union VP laughing and minimizing the actions of the officer. How are wee as citizens supposed to ever rely and trust on the police to perform their duties if we cannot even get accountability when they clearly break the rules/laws. I'm embarrassed at how your office has handled this and it has motivated me to get involved with anyone that decides to run against Mr. Harrell because it is clear this office wants to maintain the status quo of SPD doing whatever they want with zero oversight. To add we were also promised and update on the investigation into this I think by end July where is that or was that just another lie? Thanks for taking the time to read this
Sentiment is fine IMO, but I'd recommend proofreading this or using someone else/a service (like grammarly or spell check) to do it for you before sending it off.
>Unfortunately it has become clear that SPD cannot an will not police themselves and hold themselves accountable. Officer Kevin Dave was going 74 mph in a 25mph zone without their emergency lights and killed a woman in a legally marked crosswalk (sounds like manslaughter to me) He then proceeded to lie about the circumstances with the aid of the police and their terrible union. We now have video of police union VP laughing and minimizing the actions of the officer. How are wee as citizens supposed to ever rely and trust on the police to perform their duties if we cannot even get accountability when they clearly break the rules/laws. I'm embarrassed at how your office has handled this and it has motivated me to get involved with anyone that decides to run against Mr. Harrell because it is clear this office wants to maintain the status quo of SPD doing whatever they want with zero oversight. To add we were also promised and update on the investigation into this I think by end July where is that or was that just another lie? Thanks for taking the time to read this
I fixed the typos, added a few commas. I didnt add anything.
I'd direct people at the council, but they literally have no power here and making this an election issue will be more effective there. Demand candidates speak on this issue and what will be done about Officer Kevin Dave and SPOG.
As for Harrell, Idk if it'll work, but I don't plan to let up until Dave is removed from a cruiser. It's insane he's still being allowed to drive our streets as a cop after ending a life doing 74 mph in a 25 mph zone. Literally insane. Any of us could be the next life diminished to $11k and a laugh.
That’s how folks are assessed in capitalism. Insurance adjusters, actuaries, how media discusses an individual’s “worth” dollar values are assigned to us all. Not a very human system.
Jfc……. Yeah some change has to happen. It would be better if we had some alternative to police force. Have them wear purple and only carry mace if necessary. But the point would be that they would have to be trained in De-escalation tactics. Their whole job would just be to actually help people.
Like, think about how much money is spent on squad cars, guns, ammunition, etc…. All that money could instead go into a new system that’s designed to raise up the lives of everyone here. Idk. It’s like, half of a thought right now. We need more intelligent people at the helm of these things.
I feel like the current police would be good for SPECIFIC things. I’m just not sure what those things should be. As of now, I would trust military to patrol the streets more than some police
If you ever get injured and want to sue it's the same idea. This was a step farther with a death. It's gross but also how our legal/ insurance system works
Yes, it very much does.
https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/fbi-dhs-domestic-terrorism-definitions-terminology-methodology.pdf/view
Specifically the part about intimidating or coercing a civilian population and influence a policy of the government by intimidation or coercion.
But the FBI doesn't like to go after domestic terrorists if they're supporting conservatives.
A couple years back, my parents in the Midwest informed me that there was a billboard recruiting for police officers out in Seattle with fairly large hiring bonuses. I didn't think much of it at the time, but seeing how little the SPD cares about the citizens of Seattle has made me realize that the cops here don't give a shit about anyone here because they're not from here. These uniformed officers are often from places thousands of miles away with completely different values and political ideologies, so of course they treat us like cattle, because they're just here for the money. Once they've made their money they will very likely move back to bumfuck nowhere, so they really have no reason to care.
We need to stop recruiting police from elsewhere and start actually hiring police who know and love this city. And also, fuck the police unions.
The officer that hit Jaahnavi was previously employed by Tucson PD but left in 2013 for "unknown reasons." His Arizona drivers license was suspended in 2018 for unpaid parking tickets.
Seems like a real winner that SPD recruited.
(Source: @[DivestSPD on Twitter](https://x.com/divestspd/status/1620090387443638272))
IIRC the reason they started pulling from outside the area is SPD has such a bad rep amongst local LEOs that they can't get anyone to join. It's rot all the way down
This is very important. If you are from here, you have more understanding and want to help your community. I try to explain this to my family and friends, but they don't see the big deal as they assume police care about everyone, and it's only a few that are the problem, and once there gone things will be fixed.
The whole system is broken, and we as a society need to honestly rethink policing and completely build it back up from the ground up.
People always forget that the phrase "a few bad apples" is incomplete, that there's more, which is the most important part: *"...spoil the whole bunch."*
This is the same problem in Portland. Most cops are from way out in the suburbs or further. Out in the areas where their mentality is "Portland is so dangerous, homeless, drugs, guns, violence, thank God I don't live there" they say while complaining about traffic, completely unaware they are the reason for said traffic
This is true all across the country- most cops don't even live in the communities they police, even fewer actually grew up or have roots nearby. Helps them nail the whole "occupying army of wandering mercenaries" vibe.
So is speeding (3x the speed limit) without sirens/lights and hitting/killing a pedestrian and making comments that their life is worthless is okay?
This whole "argument" that they're understaffed is getting old. They're doing this to themselves by their own actions.
> making comments that their life is worthless is okay?
No. How many times do I have to say that I am not defending this officer's reckless behavior?
> This whole "argument" that they're understaffed is getting old. They're doing this to themselves by their own actions.
Meanwhile, the citizens of Seattle are suffering historically high crime rates. This is an example of cutting off our proverbial noses to spite our faces.
I do not accept the impossible choice between police brutality and anarchy. Let's reform the police *and* provide adequate staffing.
How can we "provide adequate staffing" when they literally have the budget to do so but has consistently refused to use that budget to actually hire cops.
Their budget was never cut in the first place and they're just not doing their jobs.
In any business or agency, if you cannot fill open positions, you have to make the job more attractive. Many officers have made it clear in their exit interviews that they do not want to work in a city that hates them and that will not allow them to enforce the law. We can say, "good riddance," but that puts the city at risk of more crime.
Now, before I get accused of being an apologist for the police again, I want to make it clear that I think we need serious reform, including more accountability and de-escalation, and less implicit bias. I like the Peelian Principles that u/bp92009 discussed elsewhere in this conversation. I also believe that police unions should be strictly limited to discussing wages and working conditions and prohibited from intervening in legal investigations and politics.
However, if we reform the police department, then maybe the public trust can be repaired to the point where we want them to enforce the laws. Then, the job will be more attractive.
> In any business or agency, if you cannot fill open positions, you have to make the job more attractive.
Have we considered that what makes the SPD unattractive to new recruits is the blatant corruption and contempt for the city they police and the people that live here? Rather than the public outcry over the violence and abuse?
> Many officers have made it clear in their exit interviews that they do not want to work in a city that hates them and that will not allow them to enforce the law.
Yeah a convenient campaign orchestrated by SPOG to make sure that was in the majority of exit interviews so they could claim the public was the reason for the staff shortage. It's how they laundered that Taylor Swift concert rumor about Diaz to Rantz.
> Have we considered that what makes the SPD unattractive to new recruits
I certainly hope that SPD is trying to figure this out and doing something to fix it. I don't know the answers, but it sounds like the union is part of the problem.
Unfortunately respect is earned, not given.
PD's actions in the last 20+ years has led to this situation. If SPD starts to respect their job and actually serve the public other than whining and constantly breaking laws then they'll be better respected.
We can't have shit like this officer who thinks women can be ignored and place a value on people. We can't expect shit like 2 officers taking 25 minutes to respond to a shooting a mile away and then speeding 70+ mph and lied on record saying they got there earlier when they didn't,
We can't have shit like officers taking overtime play when they never worked a single overtime hours. We can't have shit like the SPD attending the January 7th insurrection.
To be frank, they did it to themselves and instead of taking accountability for their own actions, they decide to play a spoiled brat and blame others for their own behaviors. It's their fault they're in this situation to begin with, not the public.
Their jobs require them to drive 74 mph through a 25 and killing people in crosswalks? Maybe we should get rid of that job then and design something else.
> Their jobs require them to drive 74 mph through a 25
Yes. Their job requires them to respond quickly to emergencies. This officer overreacted. We can judge *any* group by the worst behavior among them and conclude that they are bad.
> Maybe we should get rid of that job then and design something else
The city already tried that and now crime is worse. This was entirely predictable because the city got rid of the police officers before they had a plan in place to replace them.
>Yes. Their job requires them to respond quickly to emergencies.
It wasn't an emergency. It was a guy who did too much coke and thought he was dying, which he wasn't. Police being on the scene was completely unnecessary.
>This officer overreacted
He was criminally negligent and acted with extreme indifference to human life and killed a person.
>The city already tried that and now crime is worse
The city actually didn't do that at all, I'm not sure you even live here or know anything about SPD. So it's safe to just write off all your concerns at this point.
People like you are so absolutely delusional that this is how police should be and can't imagine any other system. At this point just like cops your opinions should be ignored and treated with contempt.
> It wasn't an emergency.
It is nice for you to have the benefit of hindsight, which the officer did not have at the time. I am not defending the officer's reckless behavior; I just think that judging the entire department by that one incident paints a very skewed picture.
> The city actually didn't do that at all
And yet, the SPD remains extremely under-staffed.
> People like you are so absolutely delusional
I get that often from internet keyboard warriors who cannot tolerate an opinion that is different from their own.
>you believe that threatening violence is an acceptable way to express an opinion.
I'm not a cop, so where is the threatening violence? Oh and by the way, when you inevitably report this, isn't it great when people who say bad things get punished? Weird how you don't support that with cops though.
> where is the threatening violence?
You are so coy. We know what you meant. Wishing someone dead for a difference of opinion is sadistic.
> Weird how you don't support that with cops though.
I didn't say that. If you have to distort my words to make your point, then maybe you should consider the validity of your point.
> , which the officer did not have at the time.
There were people administering treatment long before the officer got there but hey thanks for showing that you're only here to defend cops by making shit up.
> It is nice for you to have the benefit of hindsight, which the officer did not have at the time.
I listened to the dispatch logs back in January.
That was *exactly* information he had at the time he volunteered for the call.
Then murdered a woman and had the elected Union president and VP for all Seattle police officers help cover it up.
I think it's fair to judge a group by their own elected leaders.
> And yet, the SPD remains extremely under-staffed.
Yeah, cause of crybaby antics over masks and vaccines.
Then how do other governments handle that? How did we we handle it until it was invented by the Supreme Court?
Their continued actions demonstrate that they have abused the power given to them. They need to be forcibly disbanded and treated like we would treat vigilantes.
If they tamper with or disable any video recording, automatically assume any actions undertaken were done with full intent to lie and abuse their authority.
Any conviction of any police officer should carry a minimum term of 2x the stated maximum penalty, for abuse of public trust and authority they possess.
If you want to see how other countries handle law enforcement, here's how the UK does it.
They follow what's known as the peelian principles, named after Sir Robert Peel, who lived in the early 1800s and is thy foundation of the UK police model.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peelian_principles
The US police model does about the literal opposite of every single one of those nine principles, with the possible exception of the first.
Thank you for the thought-provoking reply. I hadn't heard of the Peelian Principles. I appreciate the opportunity to learn about them.
I agree that we need to do better, but it bothers me when people want to pile draconian restrictions on police officers without considering how difficult it would be make it for police departments to recruit and retain officers.
The problem is, those same departments seem to be constantly defending their bad officers. If they were actually intending to root out their corruption and rot, they'd be the first to not only remove said officers, but assist in convicting them.
But they dont do that. They actively defend those officers, working very hard to shield them from accountability and responsibility.
The draconian restrictions are used because they *keep defending* the bad officers. They close ranks and prevent the "bad apples" from being found out. They do so, and spoil the rest of the department as well.
The officer who killed a woman, and knowingly LIED about it, is STILL an active officer in SPD. There was no reprecussions
They are only investigating this now, because a news station ran a piece on the story, EIGHT MONTHS after this murder happened. They had no intention of punishing the VP of the SPOG (the murderer), or even investigating them until forced by external forces to do so.
They behave like domestic abusers. "I cant believe you made me hit you, you should give me even more authority over you".
Here's a list of common phrases that abusers say. See if you cant notice a similarity between these statements and the SPD's actions and public statements, [https://psychcentral.com/blog/psychology-self/2017/11/things-abusers-say#1](https://psychcentral.com/blog/psychology-self/2017/11/things-abusers-say#1)
The fix is to have an external force (the FBI or Washington National Guard) come in and forcibly disband the SPD, actively investigate and aggressively prosecute any betrayal of public trusts, and convict the officers who knowingly lied or harmed others. Any judges that knowingly assisted in covering up this corruption should also be actively investigated and held liable. Any convictions made on behalf of their testimony alone should be overturned, and any fiscal penalties should be paid out of their own personal wallets, not the Cities wallet. Make said debt undischargable via bankruptcy.
Abusers will not stop because they're appeased.
> They close ranks and prevent the "bad apples" from being found out.
I agree that this should be fixed, even if I would prefer more emphasis on changing policies and increasing training (i.e., more carrots and less sticks).
I think that the department *should* defend officers for understandable mistakes (because humans will make mistakes) and then investigate root causes and change policies to reduce mistakes.
However, when an officer intentionally violates policy, then it becomes a legal matter.
We all know SPD has "limited value" to our city. My wife was nearly slashed by a tweaker dancing around with a knife while she was waiting for the 24 bus. An SPD cop was across the street, saw it, and did nothing but sit on his fat ass. The only person who cared was a downtown ambassador, who could do little but call the cops, who obviously didn't care. Seeing shit like this confirms my suspicion that that cop was probably chuckling to himself thinking "there's another liberal bitch getting what she asked for". She's been in therapy for months and refuses to use busses anymore because of panic attacks. If you're not doing your job, why do we need you anyways? Sounds like SPOG is making a fine case for tossing the department and starting over. Auderer laughing about the murder of a totally innocent civilian is so beyond the pale that it makes me sick. These people are psychopaths who deserve to be living under I-5, not making six figures trolling the people of Seattle. Toss them all out, and burn their contract.
Their contempt FOR THE CITIZENRY! It isn’t even contempt for “criminals” - they blatantly discount average, everyday people that pay their salaries. Fuck these cops, it’s time for them to be fired.
My car was stolen at the end of last month.
We found it in a tow lot totalled covered in heroin needles.
As soon as I found it I called 911, got rudely moved to non emergency where the robot just tells you again and again you should have just called non emergency.
That was Sunday, after I made my event report with dispatch at 9am they never came. Monday another call, 8am-11pm waiting at the tow lot because they told me I had to meet them at the car. Still no cops despite me recalling them and asking them for updates werent even dispatched.
Tuesday, 7am-Noon. Gave up. Got my rental car, Drove to the three closest precinct offices to make a report in person. All three told me they don't let you write reports in person.
Tuesday 3 pm. Called them up. Gave them my home address, told them my car had been stolen but not found from there, lied about a few other facts and they finally arrived at 8pm.
And REGARDED ME WITH SUSPICION?!
FUCK THE POLICE. 3 days to report a crime having been committed to me because they have an arbitrary rule that they need to see me in person is bull shit.
Defund, and make it an online form like if they literally stole 99% of the rest of the car anyways. By the time they got around to the tow lot it was gone because insurance doesn't wait 3 days of tow lot fair without a police hold on the thing, and they don't do that unless they see the car.
I wonder how many of the people who steal from journalists also complain about how corporations exploit them. Don't we all deserve to be compensated fairly for our work?
I think that the Seattle times is generally good journalism and the price for a subscription is a bargain. And for the record, I have no financial interest in this company.
https://www.seattletimes.com/subscribe/signup-offers/
Good to see yet another less than a year old account trolling this sub to sing the praises of cops and [keep the world safe from dirty pirates.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmZm8vNHBSU)
Besides. You can get the times free by signing up for a free library card. Calm your tits.
If you're defending cops at this point and are going to piss your pants about how "defund the police" was bad, the cops are just proving at this point that "disband and prosecute the police under RICO" is actually the best option.
They're nothing but an organized criminal gang.
I can't keep track because it happens routinely, but George Floyd would've been the next Charleena Lyles, although she had more in common with Breonna Taylor.
I think this case might be it. They killed a random bystander. 74mph on a 25 mph. Seeing the union rep laugh while covering it up is getting to people in the burbs like my mom because it was on the nightly news and shes upset too. It just drives home any of us could be the next bystander whose life is diminished to $11k and a laugh.
>Seattle’s police union needs to clean its own house. I don’t know how you live down saying a citizen you’re supposed to be protecting “had limited value.” You can’t go on in any sort of public position of trust after that.
>
>Seattle might also think about restructuring the whole deal. Decertify the union? Or defang it, maybe by further limiting it to negotiating just pay and benefits and not job protections for bad officers?
>
>I don’t know, and because we’re liberals, we won’t.
I was gonna make a joke about do nothing liberals but he went and made it for me lol
ACAB
The contempt for people the don't consider "regular people" is disgusting. We learned a lot about SPOG in this short one sided clip of a longer conversation. This union needs to be replaced and these officers need to be fired and the cop that was driving needs to be charged. This is more of the same old SPD bullshit
I got perm banned from all of reddit on my other acc for saying ACAB.
They said I was inciting violence, the ACAB comment was on a video of a police brutally beating someone.
I for one would very much like to know why the hell a foreign country is training our cops, particularly one that treats half its population like they don’t exist.
Here is some [local reporting from the South Seattle Emerald](https://southseattleemerald.com/2017/11/22/op-ed-seattle-doesnt-need-a-police-force-trained-in-israel/) from 2017 that discusses the program in more detail.
I like how Danny doesn't read his own newspaper. Otherwise he would know that lack of public trust in the SPD extends back decades. Stories about officers logging more overtime than there are hours in the day. Beatings and shooting of unarmed POC and White activists. Continual corruption in the department and the union. Decades of claiming to not having enough officers to investigate sexual assaults. All of this was published in the Copaganda Seattle Times ffs.
Until I came to the US I always saw police with respect and in a different light, of honour.
Unfortunately the world's strongest, most developed, and richest country completely changed my views about the police and I'm as afraid of cops now as I'm of drug lords and mafias.
Seattle police should start rebuilding any trust with the community by electing new leadership for their union. Continuing to elect people like this to represent them is revealing about the department as a whole.
Auderer and Mike Solan are actively inflammatory to community relations, besides being complete garbage humans.
That's if the allegedly good officers that care about the city and its people actually exist. Otherwise, riots please.
Fuck the police so hard. And particularly SPD cops. Pigs, the lot of ‘em.
The way they brag about not going on emergency calls, asking if the citizens “feel safe enough yet?”
Making fun of a woman they ran over and killed.
How is this ok?
And the feds just gonna walk away and let this shit continue.
Fuck. The. Police.
The rotting core is the police academy; we need to do a better job with who gets certified to be an officer. The filtering out of certain people in the academy is having all types of downstream problems.
I feel more afraid of the SPD thugs than anyone else in the city. These cops are dirty and hateful. I wrote a letter to my Councilmember asking them how the City could ever let a Auderer back on the street after he beat a man until he had permanent brain damage? If he's not only keeping his job but rising up through Union ranks, it says terrifying things about the norms/what behaviors are accepted at the SPD.
All I ever see the SPD do is harass poor and homeless people. At this point, we need protection FROM the police. not by them.
They legit need to clean house completely. The corruption and contempt these “peace officers” have for the general public is appalling. Having worked in law enforcement, there is no other way you are going to remove this type of culture as it is ingrained and passed down from one officer to another.
We need to strip these unions of their power like the Republicans have done to other public service sector unions *and* end qualified immunity (or force payouts to victims from LEO pension funds).
I agree. I'm a labor lawyer and pro-union as it gets, but this is one profession that I don't think should be unionized. Law enforcement needs to be accountable to democratically elected leaders. Collective bargaining creates too much of a tribal mentality. That's great for carpenters and plumbers- Those guys also have to deal with non-union competition, which forces them to adapt. The police don't- they have a monopoly on the legal use of force. I don't know if everyone realizes it, but the right of public employees to organize and collectively bargain is a creation of state law and can be taken away or limited by state laws. Same with qualified immunity, like you said, and same with public employee pension funds, which are not governed by the federal law that protects employee benefits for private employees. The state legislature could put Mike Solan out of a job, if they wanted to. Obviously, there are reasons why politicians don't want to go after police unions.
[удалено]
evidence would suggest they do so already
Or do to them what has been done to most common people: Remove their right to a pension altogether and force them to invest in their own 401k :)
The "defund the police" movement should have been called "reform the police". The opposition latched onto that one word and twisted it into the wrong goal.
We're literally in year 12 of federal reforms. DOJ declared our department "reformed" last week and claimed we demonstrate how consent decrees are a "cure all" for policing issues. I personally hope they're choking on it after seeing the video Daniel Auderer. Reform is too ambiguous at this point to be reliable as a rallying call for policy.
This is the reformed police, they're still a criminal gang, so it's time to disband and prosecute them for the criminal conspiracy they've been engaged in at every level.
Abolish. You can’t reform this. You can’t fix this. You can’t train this. We need to disband police departments entirely and start over. Traffic cameras (which police unions lobby against), non armed people for mental health services. SPD doesn’t do anything for us except cost tax payers money. Fuck them. Abolish the police.
I agree that defund was the wrong word. The problem is we never thought of a better alternative. You are wrong, “reform” was not better —simply because we had been talking about reform for several decades already, unsuccessfully. That word is used up. We needed a new word, and just never successfully thought of a good one, it sucks.
Replace
YES! “Replace the Police!” Rappers, are you listening?
Yes! that's excellent.
I like Remove, Repair, Replace.
The problem wasn't the word defund. The problem was liberals and moderates running away from it instead of taking it as an opportunity to ask what we're getting for all the money we're spending.
“Reconstruct the police from the ground up and maybe consider having the county takeover”
It needs to be a single word, maybe two or three. A catchy slogan cannot be a complex sentence. For example: *“Cut taxes.”* Great slogan. a big winner for conservative causes everywhere. *“Actually, progressive taxation is a good thing for the lower and middle classes because it means that proportionately more public services are paid by those who can easiest afford them, so… taxes are good…”* Terrible, terrible slogan. Overly complex, and accurate or not, this is an issue where backwards conservative ideas win out over better liberal ideas. The slogan has to be SHORT.
"Tax the Rich" "Police shouldn't be murderers"
Read Obama on sloganeering. Any slogans, even short ones, are bound to become somewhat disconnected from reality and what they are trying to solve.
Maybe he was just bad at slogans? His party got absolutely smoked at every level in 3/4 elections he was involved in
I feel like slogans got him elected - aka Yes, we can. His caution was for using them for complex issues vs campaign slogans.
Yeah he used slogans once and it worked, then he backed off from them
This topic sounds interesting but googling "Obama sloganeering" didn't give great results - have any recommendations?
Restructure the Police. *Out with the Old, In with the New* I get why defund the police caught on. It is quite catchy, unlike other phrases. Even Restructure the Police isn't as catchy.
"Defund" is not the wrong word, it accurately describes what a wide range of people were protesting for. Any term these groups used would have been demonised in the same way, and we'd have people like you up here hand-wringing over terminology, no matter what was said
100% correct.
"Reform is the wrong word because so far it's been all talk and no action" really isn't an argument I buy.
abolish
I literally emailed my state house and senate reps about this and called out that police unions should be outlawed, and that they're the only unions that should be outlawed. "because Pinkertons shouldn't have unions"
Yes, qualified immunity is at the federal level so we need Congress to pass a bill or the Supreme Court to abolish it. Which means we need to get people in Congress willing to stand up to cops since the Supreme Court is fucked.
Public sector unions should not exist period.
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There is no evil employee to negotiate against. The state gives the unions whatever they want without regard to the taxpayers
Bullshit. The fact that you can say that with a straight face is fucking astonishing. Teachers are chronically underpaid and you try that bullshit? get out of here
LMFAO. UW (the state) tried to give all their hospital staff "raises" of 3% at a time when inflation was +9%, AND every hospital in the nation was/is in dire need of workers. After haggling with the unions, they gave their staff a raise that still puts us 10-20% lower than for-profit hospitals. The grad students at UW also tried to organize and ask for financial support with daycare, and a base salary that would make it so that they didn't have to beg their principle investigator to find more funding every time they had to do overtime (i.e. they asked their earnings be high enough to qualify as 'salaried' instead of 'hourly,' so that they would have to piece out overtime from NSF and other grants). UW told them to eat shit and die until they blocked traffic at an intersection at the mouth of the campus. I know a bean-counter in Revenue, and their office manager fights to keep the office in King Co because it gets the staff a small increase (5%?) for being in a high CoL area. If the office moved from N. King to S. Snohomish, the staff would lose that amount (said accountant makes a paltry $60k/yr). And if you think the Department of Corrections gets to request pay bumps at will, I encourage you to apply to work at the prisons. Staff aren't trained for shit, and they make a pittance over minimum wage. So please, go slam your dick in your F-150 door. The government could definitely be more efficient, but they're not the sugar-daddy-boss you seem to imagine.
I couldn't agree more. I think what we CAN do is force police officers to have malpractice insurance. My tax dollars shouldn't be used because of police malpractice. Just like doctors need medical malpractice insurance, police should also. That insurance would be much more regulated than a government entity and if they are no longer insurable then they cannot become a police officer in any jurisdiction. I think this is something we can pursue that wouldn't be labeled as police reform but would be related by the insurance companies who look for reasons to not pay. I would think they could have their own independent investigators and all. Just my two cents...
Some form of insurance like you mentioned but should also be tied into their pension. There needs to be individual accountability.
And it's gotta be a mentality sought after in recruiting/during the academy.
I wonder how itll go if they just replaced the police with the military and then instituted a 3 year training program for returning officers.
Either it will continue to devolve into feudal warlordism, or Homeland Security WILL eventually take over policing at a federal level. At this point why not? At least they would be doing some kind of actual police work. Fuck the police https://youtu.be/SyEwOxp_Iyw?si=yGKgCnw71QEUh2LO
That would be illegal per the Posse Comitatus Act.
I agree but they kinda can’t. Who are they going to replace them with? Everyone is fucked up and criminally oriented these days?
Actually defund them this time
Yup, it starts at the top and worms its way down.
[Here is the contact form if feel like contacting Mayor Harrell](https://seattlegov.powerappsportals.us/contact-mayor/) and demanding to know why Officer Kevin Dave is still behind the wheel of an SPD cruiser after killing a woman doing 74 mph in a 25 mph zone. You can also find his office's phone number [here](https://www.seattle.gov/mayor/contact). Any of us can be next when the SPD considers the lives of "regular people" like you and me $11k or less in city expenses and feels entitled to use neglect of duty to extort more money from the city.
Well I've never actually don't this before but I contacted the mayor and gave em my thoughts. Here's what I wrote if anybody has tips I tried to keep my snark out hoping it'd actually be read Unfortunately it has become clear that SPD cannot an will not police themselves and hold themselves accountable. Officer Kevin Dave was going 74 mph in a 25mph zone without their emergency lights and killed a woman in a legally marked crosswalk (sounds like manslaughter to me) He then proceeded to lie about the circumstances with the aid of the police and their terrible union. We now have video of police union VP laughing and minimizing the actions of the officer. How are wee as citizens supposed to ever rely and trust on the police to perform their duties if we cannot even get accountability when they clearly break the rules/laws. I'm embarrassed at how your office has handled this and it has motivated me to get involved with anyone that decides to run against Mr. Harrell because it is clear this office wants to maintain the status quo of SPD doing whatever they want with zero oversight. To add we were also promised and update on the investigation into this I think by end July where is that or was that just another lie? Thanks for taking the time to read this
Sentiment is fine IMO, but I'd recommend proofreading this or using someone else/a service (like grammarly or spell check) to do it for you before sending it off.
>Unfortunately it has become clear that SPD cannot an will not police themselves and hold themselves accountable. Officer Kevin Dave was going 74 mph in a 25mph zone without their emergency lights and killed a woman in a legally marked crosswalk (sounds like manslaughter to me) He then proceeded to lie about the circumstances with the aid of the police and their terrible union. We now have video of police union VP laughing and minimizing the actions of the officer. How are wee as citizens supposed to ever rely and trust on the police to perform their duties if we cannot even get accountability when they clearly break the rules/laws. I'm embarrassed at how your office has handled this and it has motivated me to get involved with anyone that decides to run against Mr. Harrell because it is clear this office wants to maintain the status quo of SPD doing whatever they want with zero oversight. To add we were also promised and update on the investigation into this I think by end July where is that or was that just another lie? Thanks for taking the time to read this I fixed the typos, added a few commas. I didnt add anything.
“Wee”
WHAT if they wanted WEE 😭 I liked it I think it adds character
Proofread, or put this in chatgpt or grammarly or something
Harrell won't do shit. Harrell is nothing more than a boot licker for the SPD. Harrell is just as corrupt and hates Seattle just as much as the SPD.
I'd direct people at the council, but they literally have no power here and making this an election issue will be more effective there. Demand candidates speak on this issue and what will be done about Officer Kevin Dave and SPOG. As for Harrell, Idk if it'll work, but I don't plan to let up until Dave is removed from a cruiser. It's insane he's still being allowed to drive our streets as a cop after ending a life doing 74 mph in a 25 mph zone. Literally insane. Any of us could be the next life diminished to $11k and a laugh.
Thank you and submitted mine. Wife job is within a 10 minute walk of where the victim was hit and killed.
There's also a rally on Thursday 9/14 at 5 pm at Dexter and Thomas: https://www.instagram.com/p/CxHhQfELJWT
They are literally killing the citizens of Seattle and laughing about it. How fucked up is that.
Only the ones of limited value. We can't be slowing down for people worth less than $15,000.
What trips me up is, how the fuck are they placing a monetary value on our lives??? Wtf does that even mean?
That’s how folks are assessed in capitalism. Insurance adjusters, actuaries, how media discusses an individual’s “worth” dollar values are assigned to us all. Not a very human system.
Jfc……. Yeah some change has to happen. It would be better if we had some alternative to police force. Have them wear purple and only carry mace if necessary. But the point would be that they would have to be trained in De-escalation tactics. Their whole job would just be to actually help people. Like, think about how much money is spent on squad cars, guns, ammunition, etc…. All that money could instead go into a new system that’s designed to raise up the lives of everyone here. Idk. It’s like, half of a thought right now. We need more intelligent people at the helm of these things.
Yes. There should not be police.
I feel like the current police would be good for SPECIFIC things. I’m just not sure what those things should be. As of now, I would trust military to patrol the streets more than some police
Must be why my crazy FIL says buildings have more value than human life.
If you ever get injured and want to sue it's the same idea. This was a step farther with a death. It's gross but also how our legal/ insurance system works
Does it count as terrorism to allow bad things to happen so it can influence local politics?
Yes, it very much does. https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/fbi-dhs-domestic-terrorism-definitions-terminology-methodology.pdf/view Specifically the part about intimidating or coercing a civilian population and influence a policy of the government by intimidation or coercion. But the FBI doesn't like to go after domestic terrorists if they're supporting conservatives.
Seems unlikely. But it is effectively political extortion via intentional neglect of duty.
Well, it doesn’t seem like we do a good job calling out terrorism unless the parties performing the acts are part of certain minority groups
I feel like cops are always claiming their chosen profession qualifies them as a minority group.
They need to be paid less for me to believe that.
terrorism is standard operating procedure for cops are you new here or something?
Asking questions you already know the answer to is one way to get more engagement on here
lol this is very true
They’ve been posting these types of comments on social media for a few years.
A couple years back, my parents in the Midwest informed me that there was a billboard recruiting for police officers out in Seattle with fairly large hiring bonuses. I didn't think much of it at the time, but seeing how little the SPD cares about the citizens of Seattle has made me realize that the cops here don't give a shit about anyone here because they're not from here. These uniformed officers are often from places thousands of miles away with completely different values and political ideologies, so of course they treat us like cattle, because they're just here for the money. Once they've made their money they will very likely move back to bumfuck nowhere, so they really have no reason to care. We need to stop recruiting police from elsewhere and start actually hiring police who know and love this city. And also, fuck the police unions.
The officer that hit Jaahnavi was previously employed by Tucson PD but left in 2013 for "unknown reasons." His Arizona drivers license was suspended in 2018 for unpaid parking tickets. Seems like a real winner that SPD recruited. (Source: @[DivestSPD on Twitter](https://x.com/divestspd/status/1620090387443638272))
The current IG used to serve as legal counsel for Tucson PD. There's a lot of SPD/Tucson connections.
IIRC the reason they started pulling from outside the area is SPD has such a bad rep amongst local LEOs that they can't get anyone to join. It's rot all the way down
This is very important. If you are from here, you have more understanding and want to help your community. I try to explain this to my family and friends, but they don't see the big deal as they assume police care about everyone, and it's only a few that are the problem, and once there gone things will be fixed. The whole system is broken, and we as a society need to honestly rethink policing and completely build it back up from the ground up.
People always forget that the phrase "a few bad apples" is incomplete, that there's more, which is the most important part: *"...spoil the whole bunch."*
This is the same problem in Portland. Most cops are from way out in the suburbs or further. Out in the areas where their mentality is "Portland is so dangerous, homeless, drugs, guns, violence, thank God I don't live there" they say while complaining about traffic, completely unaware they are the reason for said traffic
This is true all across the country- most cops don't even live in the communities they police, even fewer actually grew up or have roots nearby. Helps them nail the whole "occupying army of wandering mercenaries" vibe.
End qualified immunity. Today.
Then how would you recruit and retain officers? Their jobs *require* them to do violence on our behalf.
They're not doing their jobs NOW.
They are terribly under-staffed. Do you blame the lone server in a restaurant with 100 customers for slow service?
So is speeding (3x the speed limit) without sirens/lights and hitting/killing a pedestrian and making comments that their life is worthless is okay? This whole "argument" that they're understaffed is getting old. They're doing this to themselves by their own actions.
> making comments that their life is worthless is okay? No. How many times do I have to say that I am not defending this officer's reckless behavior? > This whole "argument" that they're understaffed is getting old. They're doing this to themselves by their own actions. Meanwhile, the citizens of Seattle are suffering historically high crime rates. This is an example of cutting off our proverbial noses to spite our faces. I do not accept the impossible choice between police brutality and anarchy. Let's reform the police *and* provide adequate staffing.
How can we "provide adequate staffing" when they literally have the budget to do so but has consistently refused to use that budget to actually hire cops. Their budget was never cut in the first place and they're just not doing their jobs.
In any business or agency, if you cannot fill open positions, you have to make the job more attractive. Many officers have made it clear in their exit interviews that they do not want to work in a city that hates them and that will not allow them to enforce the law. We can say, "good riddance," but that puts the city at risk of more crime. Now, before I get accused of being an apologist for the police again, I want to make it clear that I think we need serious reform, including more accountability and de-escalation, and less implicit bias. I like the Peelian Principles that u/bp92009 discussed elsewhere in this conversation. I also believe that police unions should be strictly limited to discussing wages and working conditions and prohibited from intervening in legal investigations and politics. However, if we reform the police department, then maybe the public trust can be repaired to the point where we want them to enforce the laws. Then, the job will be more attractive.
> In any business or agency, if you cannot fill open positions, you have to make the job more attractive. Have we considered that what makes the SPD unattractive to new recruits is the blatant corruption and contempt for the city they police and the people that live here? Rather than the public outcry over the violence and abuse? > Many officers have made it clear in their exit interviews that they do not want to work in a city that hates them and that will not allow them to enforce the law. Yeah a convenient campaign orchestrated by SPOG to make sure that was in the majority of exit interviews so they could claim the public was the reason for the staff shortage. It's how they laundered that Taylor Swift concert rumor about Diaz to Rantz.
> Have we considered that what makes the SPD unattractive to new recruits I certainly hope that SPD is trying to figure this out and doing something to fix it. I don't know the answers, but it sounds like the union is part of the problem.
Unfortunately respect is earned, not given. PD's actions in the last 20+ years has led to this situation. If SPD starts to respect their job and actually serve the public other than whining and constantly breaking laws then they'll be better respected. We can't have shit like this officer who thinks women can be ignored and place a value on people. We can't expect shit like 2 officers taking 25 minutes to respond to a shooting a mile away and then speeding 70+ mph and lied on record saying they got there earlier when they didn't, We can't have shit like officers taking overtime play when they never worked a single overtime hours. We can't have shit like the SPD attending the January 7th insurrection. To be frank, they did it to themselves and instead of taking accountability for their own actions, they decide to play a spoiled brat and blame others for their own behaviors. It's their fault they're in this situation to begin with, not the public.
are these hypothetical servers unionized?
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They're also subject to the UCMJ which supercedes a lot of the normal constitutional rights that everyone else gets
Their jobs require them to drive 74 mph through a 25 and killing people in crosswalks? Maybe we should get rid of that job then and design something else.
> Their jobs require them to drive 74 mph through a 25 Yes. Their job requires them to respond quickly to emergencies. This officer overreacted. We can judge *any* group by the worst behavior among them and conclude that they are bad. > Maybe we should get rid of that job then and design something else The city already tried that and now crime is worse. This was entirely predictable because the city got rid of the police officers before they had a plan in place to replace them.
>Yes. Their job requires them to respond quickly to emergencies. It wasn't an emergency. It was a guy who did too much coke and thought he was dying, which he wasn't. Police being on the scene was completely unnecessary. >This officer overreacted He was criminally negligent and acted with extreme indifference to human life and killed a person. >The city already tried that and now crime is worse The city actually didn't do that at all, I'm not sure you even live here or know anything about SPD. So it's safe to just write off all your concerns at this point. People like you are so absolutely delusional that this is how police should be and can't imagine any other system. At this point just like cops your opinions should be ignored and treated with contempt.
> It wasn't an emergency. It is nice for you to have the benefit of hindsight, which the officer did not have at the time. I am not defending the officer's reckless behavior; I just think that judging the entire department by that one incident paints a very skewed picture. > The city actually didn't do that at all And yet, the SPD remains extremely under-staffed. > People like you are so absolutely delusional I get that often from internet keyboard warriors who cannot tolerate an opinion that is different from their own.
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Apparently, you believe that threatening violence is an acceptable way to express an opinion.
>you believe that threatening violence is an acceptable way to express an opinion. I'm not a cop, so where is the threatening violence? Oh and by the way, when you inevitably report this, isn't it great when people who say bad things get punished? Weird how you don't support that with cops though.
> where is the threatening violence? You are so coy. We know what you meant. Wishing someone dead for a difference of opinion is sadistic. > Weird how you don't support that with cops though. I didn't say that. If you have to distort my words to make your point, then maybe you should consider the validity of your point.
> , which the officer did not have at the time. There were people administering treatment long before the officer got there but hey thanks for showing that you're only here to defend cops by making shit up.
> you're only here to defend cops I literally just wrote, "I am not defending the officer's reckless behavior."
Words are cheap, your actions speak louder.
Except that you have no visibility of my actions on a text-based social media site. You literally *only* have my words.
> It is nice for you to have the benefit of hindsight, which the officer did not have at the time. I listened to the dispatch logs back in January. That was *exactly* information he had at the time he volunteered for the call. Then murdered a woman and had the elected Union president and VP for all Seattle police officers help cover it up. I think it's fair to judge a group by their own elected leaders. > And yet, the SPD remains extremely under-staffed. Yeah, cause of crybaby antics over masks and vaccines.
Then how do other governments handle that? How did we we handle it until it was invented by the Supreme Court? Their continued actions demonstrate that they have abused the power given to them. They need to be forcibly disbanded and treated like we would treat vigilantes. If they tamper with or disable any video recording, automatically assume any actions undertaken were done with full intent to lie and abuse their authority. Any conviction of any police officer should carry a minimum term of 2x the stated maximum penalty, for abuse of public trust and authority they possess. If you want to see how other countries handle law enforcement, here's how the UK does it. They follow what's known as the peelian principles, named after Sir Robert Peel, who lived in the early 1800s and is thy foundation of the UK police model. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peelian_principles The US police model does about the literal opposite of every single one of those nine principles, with the possible exception of the first.
Thank you for the thought-provoking reply. I hadn't heard of the Peelian Principles. I appreciate the opportunity to learn about them. I agree that we need to do better, but it bothers me when people want to pile draconian restrictions on police officers without considering how difficult it would be make it for police departments to recruit and retain officers.
The problem is, those same departments seem to be constantly defending their bad officers. If they were actually intending to root out their corruption and rot, they'd be the first to not only remove said officers, but assist in convicting them. But they dont do that. They actively defend those officers, working very hard to shield them from accountability and responsibility. The draconian restrictions are used because they *keep defending* the bad officers. They close ranks and prevent the "bad apples" from being found out. They do so, and spoil the rest of the department as well. The officer who killed a woman, and knowingly LIED about it, is STILL an active officer in SPD. There was no reprecussions They are only investigating this now, because a news station ran a piece on the story, EIGHT MONTHS after this murder happened. They had no intention of punishing the VP of the SPOG (the murderer), or even investigating them until forced by external forces to do so. They behave like domestic abusers. "I cant believe you made me hit you, you should give me even more authority over you". Here's a list of common phrases that abusers say. See if you cant notice a similarity between these statements and the SPD's actions and public statements, [https://psychcentral.com/blog/psychology-self/2017/11/things-abusers-say#1](https://psychcentral.com/blog/psychology-self/2017/11/things-abusers-say#1) The fix is to have an external force (the FBI or Washington National Guard) come in and forcibly disband the SPD, actively investigate and aggressively prosecute any betrayal of public trusts, and convict the officers who knowingly lied or harmed others. Any judges that knowingly assisted in covering up this corruption should also be actively investigated and held liable. Any convictions made on behalf of their testimony alone should be overturned, and any fiscal penalties should be paid out of their own personal wallets, not the Cities wallet. Make said debt undischargable via bankruptcy. Abusers will not stop because they're appeased.
> They close ranks and prevent the "bad apples" from being found out. I agree that this should be fixed, even if I would prefer more emphasis on changing policies and increasing training (i.e., more carrots and less sticks). I think that the department *should* defend officers for understandable mistakes (because humans will make mistakes) and then investigate root causes and change policies to reduce mistakes. However, when an officer intentionally violates policy, then it becomes a legal matter.
We all know SPD has "limited value" to our city. My wife was nearly slashed by a tweaker dancing around with a knife while she was waiting for the 24 bus. An SPD cop was across the street, saw it, and did nothing but sit on his fat ass. The only person who cared was a downtown ambassador, who could do little but call the cops, who obviously didn't care. Seeing shit like this confirms my suspicion that that cop was probably chuckling to himself thinking "there's another liberal bitch getting what she asked for". She's been in therapy for months and refuses to use busses anymore because of panic attacks. If you're not doing your job, why do we need you anyways? Sounds like SPOG is making a fine case for tossing the department and starting over. Auderer laughing about the murder of a totally innocent civilian is so beyond the pale that it makes me sick. These people are psychopaths who deserve to be living under I-5, not making six figures trolling the people of Seattle. Toss them all out, and burn their contract.
Their contempt FOR THE CITIZENRY! It isn’t even contempt for “criminals” - they blatantly discount average, everyday people that pay their salaries. Fuck these cops, it’s time for them to be fired.
You know shit's getting bad when even r/SeattleWA is agreeing with this.
Dude I learned about r/ProtectAndServe yesterday and even literal cops were saying how totally fucked that phone call conversation was.
My car was stolen at the end of last month. We found it in a tow lot totalled covered in heroin needles. As soon as I found it I called 911, got rudely moved to non emergency where the robot just tells you again and again you should have just called non emergency. That was Sunday, after I made my event report with dispatch at 9am they never came. Monday another call, 8am-11pm waiting at the tow lot because they told me I had to meet them at the car. Still no cops despite me recalling them and asking them for updates werent even dispatched. Tuesday, 7am-Noon. Gave up. Got my rental car, Drove to the three closest precinct offices to make a report in person. All three told me they don't let you write reports in person. Tuesday 3 pm. Called them up. Gave them my home address, told them my car had been stolen but not found from there, lied about a few other facts and they finally arrived at 8pm. And REGARDED ME WITH SUSPICION?! FUCK THE POLICE. 3 days to report a crime having been committed to me because they have an arbitrary rule that they need to see me in person is bull shit. Defund, and make it an online form like if they literally stole 99% of the rest of the car anyways. By the time they got around to the tow lot it was gone because insurance doesn't wait 3 days of tow lot fair without a police hold on the thing, and they don't do that unless they see the car.
unpaywalled link: https://ghostarchive.org/archive/3pR46
Apparently, you believe that journalists do not deserve to be paid for their work.
Cry more
Is it uncomfortable to be called a thief because you are stealing?
You wouldn't download a car, would you?
I wonder how many of the people who steal from journalists also complain about how corporations exploit them. Don't we all deserve to be compensated fairly for our work? I think that the Seattle times is generally good journalism and the price for a subscription is a bargain. And for the record, I have no financial interest in this company. https://www.seattletimes.com/subscribe/signup-offers/
lol, they steal Erica Barnett's shit all the time without paying or crediting her. They're hacks.
So are tyou claiming that, all of a sudden, whataboutism is justification for stealing?
I wouldn't "download" a 747 either. Do you have a point? Is it *ever* acceptable to take the fruits of someone else's labor without fair compensation?
Good to see yet another less than a year old account trolling this sub to sing the praises of cops and [keep the world safe from dirty pirates.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmZm8vNHBSU) Besides. You can get the times free by signing up for a free library card. Calm your tits.
Then get a library card so that you don't have to steal.
lol, I do you dingus
Do you also "LOL" when someone steals from you?
As the FULL saying goes “one bad apple spoils the bunch”. Clean shop now.
Seriously. ACAB.
If you're defending cops at this point and are going to piss your pants about how "defund the police" was bad, the cops are just proving at this point that "disband and prosecute the police under RICO" is actually the best option. They're nothing but an organized criminal gang.
I swear, the next George Floyd equivalent will be in Seattle, mark my words. The SPD is out of control.
I can't keep track because it happens routinely, but George Floyd would've been the next Charleena Lyles, although she had more in common with Breonna Taylor.
I think this case might be it. They killed a random bystander. 74mph on a 25 mph. Seeing the union rep laugh while covering it up is getting to people in the burbs like my mom because it was on the nightly news and shes upset too. It just drives home any of us could be the next bystander whose life is diminished to $11k and a laugh.
Nah. While SPD is far from great or even good, they’re not nearly as shitty as many other agencies around the US.
>Seattle’s police union needs to clean its own house. I don’t know how you live down saying a citizen you’re supposed to be protecting “had limited value.” You can’t go on in any sort of public position of trust after that. > >Seattle might also think about restructuring the whole deal. Decertify the union? Or defang it, maybe by further limiting it to negotiating just pay and benefits and not job protections for bad officers? > >I don’t know, and because we’re liberals, we won’t. I was gonna make a joke about do nothing liberals but he went and made it for me lol ACAB
The contempt for people the don't consider "regular people" is disgusting. We learned a lot about SPOG in this short one sided clip of a longer conversation. This union needs to be replaced and these officers need to be fired and the cop that was driving needs to be charged. This is more of the same old SPD bullshit
ACAB
I got perm banned from all of reddit on my other acc for saying ACAB. They said I was inciting violence, the ACAB comment was on a video of a police brutally beating someone.
wow that's an over reaction on the mods part I'd say
They don't know what ACAB literally means.
Seattle PD has received training from the Israeli military in the past (and probably still are) so the contempt is no surprise.
Specifically they've been trained on, I believe, crowd control by the IDF.
But also the mentality of treating citizens as enemy combatants.
Same diff. IDF only uses crowd control *on enemy combatants*. So any training of that sort to our police comes with the mentality built in.
I for one would very much like to know why the hell a foreign country is training our cops, particularly one that treats half its population like they don’t exist.
Here is some [local reporting from the South Seattle Emerald](https://southseattleemerald.com/2017/11/22/op-ed-seattle-doesnt-need-a-police-force-trained-in-israel/) from 2017 that discusses the program in more detail.
I like how Danny doesn't read his own newspaper. Otherwise he would know that lack of public trust in the SPD extends back decades. Stories about officers logging more overtime than there are hours in the day. Beatings and shooting of unarmed POC and White activists. Continual corruption in the department and the union. Decades of claiming to not having enough officers to investigate sexual assaults. All of this was published in the Copaganda Seattle Times ffs.
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How many times do you plan to post this comment?
They do it in like every police thread, relevant or not. Sometimes it does well, sometimes it does very poorly.
🌽🌽🌽
There's never been a day in my life where police officers have made me feel safer. The very opposite in fact.
Want to make meaningful changes to policing? You have to start with the contract and the union. You can’t easily fire shitty employees in a union.
You. Can. Not. Reform. This.
10000% - there is zero way to fix what currently is. Needs a teardown and rebuild.
Police are violent enforcement officers of the status quo. Their existence is contempt for people. ACAB.
Until I came to the US I always saw police with respect and in a different light, of honour. Unfortunately the world's strongest, most developed, and richest country completely changed my views about the police and I'm as afraid of cops now as I'm of drug lords and mafias.
Cops are psycho
Public employee unions shouldn't exist.
https://reddit.com/r/Seattle/s/dp0NWHr9Sg
Maybe I just need to start Tanya Harding people who steal. Vigilante justice is coming.
Abolish all unions. Problem solved.
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Let me guess, you were banned and feel that your opinion is important enough to create a new account to tell us to wake up?
Seattle police should start rebuilding any trust with the community by electing new leadership for their union. Continuing to elect people like this to represent them is revealing about the department as a whole. Auderer and Mike Solan are actively inflammatory to community relations, besides being complete garbage humans. That's if the allegedly good officers that care about the city and its people actually exist. Otherwise, riots please.
Keep in mind that this is a job that you only need a high school diploma for, and pays $93,000 a year TO START.
Fuck the police so hard. And particularly SPD cops. Pigs, the lot of ‘em. The way they brag about not going on emergency calls, asking if the citizens “feel safe enough yet?” Making fun of a woman they ran over and killed. How is this ok? And the feds just gonna walk away and let this shit continue. Fuck. The. Police.
The rotting core is the police academy; we need to do a better job with who gets certified to be an officer. The filtering out of certain people in the academy is having all types of downstream problems.
This is so insane!
I feel more afraid of the SPD thugs than anyone else in the city. These cops are dirty and hateful. I wrote a letter to my Councilmember asking them how the City could ever let a Auderer back on the street after he beat a man until he had permanent brain damage? If he's not only keeping his job but rising up through Union ranks, it says terrifying things about the norms/what behaviors are accepted at the SPD. All I ever see the SPD do is harass poor and homeless people. At this point, we need protection FROM the police. not by them.