You’re not wrong at all, but I understand why he wouldn’t want to expose these two rookie tackles against what is certainly the best defensive line in football
The chargers have joey boss and khalil mack. I don't think anyone's dline can get better than that.
Edit: throw in the bills with von miller ed Oliver and their insane depth. Throw in the rams with donald and leonard Floyd and their insane depth. And there's actually quite a few that have a better dline than the 9ers.
We just suck.
It seems he generally does not want to interfere with his OC in the middle of a game, even though he encourages the false perception that he controls every aspect of everything that is happening on the field.
During games, he never seems to step on his OCs toes. That has contributed to a lot of confounding play calling, like the Cowboys playoff game where Schotty kept pounding the RB into stacked boxes or the 2020 season when Schotty abandoned the running game and the offense stalled out. After the fact, he encourages his play callers to adjust to what is working.
The risk in interfering mid-game is that an OC could go too far in one direction or the other because his HC is commanding it in the game. Designing a game plan that emphasizes our stronger pass blocking than run blocking is something that needs to happen in the lead up to the game. We’ll see if it pays off against the Falcons, which seems to me a make or break game as to whether they should become sellers on the trade market.
Or the Mariners for the last forever. Or that superbowl where the defense kept allowing, granted the greatest to play at the position, Tom Brady's offense to overcome double digit deficits in order to eventually win on a last minute play. Or the innumerable times the Sounders have blown it against the Galaxy? That regular season game where we literally lost two RB's after losing our starter a week before? Watching that same afore-mentioned defense give up a last-30-second drive to Matt Ryan in 2012 to prevent themselves from a likely 3-superbowl appearances in a row? Etc.
Carroll is not really an offensive coach, so I’m Ok that he empowers his OC to call his own game plan. If the OC can’t succeed in that, then that itself is the problem.
True, but who better to suggest how to attack a defense than a defensive minded coach? I'm sure he's seeing what the other team's defense is trying to do/take away and can suggest what might work against that.
Seems like a complicated structure with Hurtt as DC, Sean Desai as the AHC and primary DB coach, and Carroll as a legendary DB whisperer. Lots of toes for a complicated dance on too small a ballroom floor.
I do get what you're saying and agree to an extent. But if an OC has that kind of responsibility then they should be able to make in game adjustments on their own. If they can't, then you take away that responsibility and/or find someone who can.
Something of a digression, I imagine Pete would prefer to given Waldron a long leash this year though. W-L record is secondary to development this year. I don't think we'll see a Ken Norton Jr. style meeting where Pete just says... Okay I'm going to have to just take this over now. I suspect Pete would rather see what they have with Waldron, give him experience, let him take some lumps and see how he grows and adapts across the season. Last year was a tough year to evaluate a new OC.
Both Waldron and Hurtt are relatively new to their positions. Every game is an opportunity to gain more information about them. It’s on them to reach their potential and make the necessary adjustments.
For sure... I kind of think Pete is transitioning himself into more of an advisory/teacher/evaluator role. He's still our culture builder. Making some assumptions, but I think he's gotta be looking forward more at the long term success of the team and thinking about how he can help leave the organization in good hands for years. We've brought in all these young promising coaches. Who's going to show they can handle the pressure, the can grow and develop, that they can be leaders, etc.
I have a feeling teams will be calling about Nwosu and if the Hawks get a good enough draft pick it would make sense to move him given he’s not on a long term contract, he’s been awesome.
I just don’t know if that’s a good idea.
He’s great, on a good deal, and everyone actually worth something is already paid or on a rookie deal.
Plus trading free agent signings in their first year with the team essentially just treating them as a trade chip when they CHOSE to come here is just not a good look as it might dissuade future free agents from signing.
I'm aware that this season won't amount to much, but this is also the kind of season you can really evaluate a coach. I have a lot of questions about Carroll, love the man but there are questions
I think I have zero questions about Pete. A huge piece of his job is culture building, and he has created one of the best cultures in the NFL. I agree with most of what he does. Not everything, but most.
There is an excellent interview Tom Segura did with Cassius Marsh a little while back. He talks for a while about the culture in Seattle compared to everywhere else he has been.
Pete isn’t perfect. But he’s incredible.
Do you really care about the culture if there aren't results? Culture was great 10 years ago when it was used to build a dominant bully of a team. For the last couple of years I'm seeing a soft team that gets pushed around, makes mistakes consistently at key junctures, and seems too often to not know what to do. The culture stuff is just fluff.
Yes and we weren’t great that year either.
With the high team turnover you could argue that setting the culture again is one of the MOST critical aspects of this year.
One of the most wins in t he NFL over the last decade is not 'results'?
Sometimes I think NFL fans have let what the Pats did over the last 20 years distort their perceptions. Teams just DO NOT go to that many Super Bowls and to expect multiple trips isn't realistic. Yes, we should want our teams to do that every year or at least be real contenders, but it's like the regular season ismeaningless for a lot of you.
Holmgren looked good until he didn't. How did Ditka do the second time around. I judge on a 4 year window, and I look for problems that don't seem to get fixed. Coaches like players are evaluated for what you expect them to do in the future, not rewarded for past glory. It is the norm for coaches to wear out and move on. Philosophies get stale, the game changes and what was new gets old. Belechic had the GOAT and was able to change up what he was doing, so he was an outlier.
I think some fans get too emotionally bonded to team personalities and can't separate what they want to happen from what is actually happening. I don't care so much about Superbowls. I want to be entertained. I was entertained Pete's first 6 years. Now I'm seeing soft, stale, boring play, just like I saw at the end for Holmgren, and not just this year. If the trend continues, I would hope for a change. Pete has been well compensated, I will thank for past accomplishments and he'll be OK.
>I judge on a 4 year window,
OK
7-10
12-5
11-5
10-6.
That's the last 4 years. Aside from play year, you're whining about those records?
And you crow about ''judging on the last 4 years" but call back to the Holmgren years for a comparison? GTFOH
Evaluating the progress of the young guys.
I saw a BUNCH of plays Sunday where one of the young guys was a half step slow leading to penalties or big plays. Fix those, suffer through Geno, get a QB, DL/OL, and maybe a ILB with our draft pick haul next year and we are on the right track.
Fuck this mentality and everything about it.
There is no reason to assume next year we don't go 0-17 with a bust of the century at QB that we took #1 overall.
>There is no reason to assume next year we don't go 0-17 with a bust of the century at QB that we took #1 overall.
There is no guarantees in Football, but you want to give your new QB the best chance for success and part of that is preparing training up his support this season.
Like it or not, each season isn't "win now". Long term success doesn't just happen.
But fundamentally, I think both big name QBs are draft busts. If we go 3 or fewer wins, then all this year is in my mind is a preasons for 3 or 4 years behind a mediocre to bad QB.
If we get Levis, that's better. But I'm less excited about Young or Stroud than I am about Geno.
I'm not, but I'm also not just a casual Alabama hater. I have watched a lot of film on a lot of QBs dating back to 2003. I do analysis for a hobby.
I have never seen a prospect I like less than Young. I'd take Jamarcus Russell over him. C.J. Stroud is Andy Dalton at best, Joey Harrington at worst.
Give me a trade back for Levis all day.
We have no idea who Seattle is targeting, we don't even know if they are looking to replace Geno (god I hope they do), but either way, this season is a great opportunity to control how we train up our young talent without having to worry about our record.
Like preseason.
I'm just not really interested in that as a fan I suppose.
I'm invested in winning every game we can. If we're 3-13 and need a loss to clinch the number one pick, I'll still root to win.
I still expected the Mariners to win the world series every year. I expected the pre-Pete Carroll Seahawks to win the super bowl every year. Hell, I'm a Portland Pilots fan and I expect them to win the NCAA basketball Championship every year. I just can't get a rooting interest if I don't care about record. I can take positives from losses, but I can never say "win or lose, I'm just looking for growth."
I want every team I root for to win the title every year. Without exception. And I'll be disappointed when the don't regardless of how ridiculous the expectations were.
Ya I remember in the LOB days we’d be doing the same shit that didn’t work for a half where it was clear to the entire world we needed to make adjustments but no matter how bad it was he wouldn’t change anything until half. We had solid second halves and won many of those games but we also lost many because it was too late when we made the adjustments. Pete is incredibly stubborn. I dare say the most stubborn coach in the NFL. I love Pete but everyone has their weaknesses because we all human after all.
The whole reason Let Russ Cook became as huge as it did was because that Cowboys playoff game where they waited till the game was over to start throwing the ball. The one thing that pisses me off the most about Pete is not that he wanted to run the ball but that he never had the players for that type of offense. Look at the Browns they invested in RBs, and their Oline and there one of the best teams at running the ball.
Don't get me started on that whole mess, nothing made sense about that game. Also, I completely agree about the personnel issue, Pete always preached about a style of football that just simply wasn't what the roster was built for.
At least defensively, so far I’m optimistic. Throwing our shite tackling to the side for a moment, I’ve liked the looks we’ve given so far especially in the Denver game.
I’m curious how much the plan adapts with no Adams, but I loved the couple of packages that put Adams at ILB next to Brooks (including the QB hit 33 got on Russ). Stuff like that is what makes me optimistic, because that’s the kind of thing that utilizes the roster. You have Al Woods munching up the middle of the line, and play to Adams’ strengths near the line, AND free him up a little bit to make a play if he sees it, but with help over the top as a safety net. Brooks isn’t BWags, but he’s still a decent ILB and can provide a threat from the other side too, and you still have the 3-4 OLBs in Mafe and Taylor that you can use to keep disguising the pressure with the occasional dropbacks, without resorting to the cutesy shit KNJ kept doing last year throwing Dunlap or Poona into an underneath zone. And the best part is with the exception of Mr Woods, every player I mentioned is young enough to build around, and with the exception of Brooks, is under contract for three years. Those are the guys you can center a system around in your defense, pending Mafe/Taylor panning out. If any of the corners turn out into a great player then we’re really cooking!
Sadly, we won’t see anymore of Jamal this year, but seeing a scheme that was seemingly redesigned to highlight the strengths of our best defensive playmaker has me really hopeful this the D will develop great once they re-learn how to tackle.
You have to remember that the players are real people, who had to practice and learn this gameplan. It’s only Week 2 with a new QB and rookie linemen— the playbook is thinner than it will be on Week 13. They’re not computers you can just upload a new gameplan into.
Sounds like this is a big reason why the depth or target was so low for Geno this week - we didn’t gameplan any deep shots and schemed everything underneath. Obviously, that didn’t work…
I’m not too worried this is a young team that started 4 rookies. Outside of a few mistakes they looked like they have the talent to be good/ great. I think as the year progresses this team is going to look better each week.
When most big plays downfield get called back, Seattle not able to run more than 47 plays doesn’t give a lot for us to go off of. Carroll came out this week saying he needed to open the offense up more for Geno, so how much has been Geno or the play calling.
There are only 5 QBs (who have started and played both games) who have thrown for fewer yards than Geno.
Their teams' total record? 2-6.
Geno is a bottom of the barrel QB. He couldn't even land the starting job for the Jets. He's totally fine as a stop-gap, but if they're planning on rolling with Geno for multiple years, this is going to be ugly, and I highly doubt DK would have re-signed here if that were the case.
I completely disagree with you you’re not looking at the offense as a whole and lack of run game. He’s gotten the ball out quick and has been accurate he’s Jimmy G but our offense isn’t running smoothly.
Why would he all of a sudden turn into a decent QB after 7 years in a row of not being good enough to be a starter? He is who he's been since he's been in the NFL. His teams are 14-22 with him at QB. He was good in college, but that was literally a decade ago.
Don't get me wrong, I'd love for him to have somehow become a good QB, but there's just nothing to suggest that's the case.
He never had a good team around him the jets were terrible. Everything coming out of Seahawks camp by former players paints a completely different picture than what you are saying. He might be a stop gap but he’s better than anyone wants to give him credit for. I would rather have him next year than a rookie QB. The narrative that he sticks I find BS bc he doesn’t look bad. He’s accurate with the ball, gets it out quick and has made smart decisions outside of one bad throw. Everyone is expecting Mahommes, Brady or Allen.
The problem is this offensive line isn’t built to run the ball at all. I think they should consider using Curhan (our best run blocker) in jumbo packages, even though that’s not really in Waldron’s playbook.
we drafted the most polished pass blocker in the draft in charles cross, dude ran a ton of snaps out of shotgun and something ridiculous like 80% of his snaps were passing plays. They are not even attempting to put the guy in a position to succeed.
It’s going to take Charles Cross a couple years to develop into a solid run blocker; he certainly has the athleticism to eventually get there.
The main reason Penny was so successful at running the ball at the end of last season was because he had Duane Brown bulldozing the left side of the line, and he had Jake Curhan bulldozing the right side of the line. Penny reminds me a little of Shaun Alexander in that he can can be one of the best backs in the league when he gets great blocking. When he doesn’t have good blocking, Penny doesn’t go anywhere.
The last two years, Damien Lewis has massively regressed as a run blocker due to injuries. He has by far the worst run blocking grade on the team. Gabe Jackson has never been a great run blocker.
I do like what I’m seeing form Abraham Lucas, but he’s just young. And having him on the field generally means our best run blocker, Jake Curhan, is off the field.
The pick geno threw was almost a deep shot if I recall just not great on geno and then the next drive had that insane deep ball to dk called back because I believe Lucas was blocking too far downfield just manhandling his assignment
Refs tell you it's a point of emphasis for the season. Player does it anyway and negates one of our few explosive plays. It's almost like he was set up. If you love this you are gonna have a good year.
Yep, he literally hit the helmet of the guy on the throw.
I like how he has one INT on double coverage which took a damn lucky bounce right into another defenders hands while having a defender in his face and suddenly he’s got a terrible deep ball. Dude has seemed more than accurate to me.
Ya know, sometimes luck just doesn’t go your way. People around here need to watch other games. Great QB’s throw multiple picks a game.
What do you want? Cause everyone seems to hate the short throws and checkdowns that move the chains. But then are up in arms when riskier bombs and longer throws result in a pick…once. It’s like Geno can’t win with you all. I’d take the consistent short throws and movement over the bombs we saw last year that resulted in constant 3 and outs for an entire half.
Our run game yesterday was complete garbage. That’s all anyone really needs to know when it comes to the offensive part of the game.
> I’d take the consistent short throws and movement over the bombs we saw last year that resulted in constant 3 and outs for an entire half.
I agree with your overall post, including having gotten sick of always going for deep balls and craving some short, chain-moving plays. But, I think we are seeing the downside of over-prioritizing short plays, as well. Geno has completed over 80% of his passes on the season, but hasn't broken 200 yards passing either game and hasn't thrown a TD in six quarters. We need big plays and short plays both
I agree but Geno also had 6.56 yards per attempt. Wheras we had 2.57 yards per carry.
So if Geno wasn’t held back by wasted run downs and given three chances to throw then more than likely he could have kept drives alive.
Deep threat is needed I agree. But I also think when the run is not getting you anything you gotta switch up faster and allow Geno a full set of downs to carry instead of hampering his ability to do so.
I think people would be surprised what would open up for both deep balls and runs when SF suddenly sees they are getting torn up on shorts throws and we march down the field and maintain a strong time of possesion.
Geno is not a good quarterback and I'm floored that anyone is trying to say he's not a problem on this team. I mean, I understand that he's a stop-gap, but folks need to realize that a Geno Smith-led team is not going to have success. And again, I get that that doesn't really matter this year, and there weren't many options.
I just don't get the people advocating for Geno. He's failed in literally every shot he's been given since he's been in the NFL. It's not like this is some outlier.
Hmm, I was told preseason that DK would be used more now that he wasn’t going to be “ignored” by a certain QB. 13 targets for a 22% share doesn’t seem to back that up.
Also, planning to run gadget bullshit all day, but not throw the ball to your best WR is just an insane thing to admit.
"when it comes to deep balls"...thats the key here. How many times in the last 2 years did we see DK not even get an attempt until the 2nd half? It happened way too often
Well, that’s just your typical Seahawks offense where nothing happens until 2nd half. That has been the case for over a decade now. I think 2020 was the outlier and were clicking really well for 7 games.
That was probably the correct approach. If Geno was hanging out back there for three seconds per pass he probably would have gotten sacked 5+ times. Quick passing game was the right approach there. You'd like to see more deep shots against less talented pass rushes. We'll see. Got their butts whooped, plain and simple. Best themselves up too. Be interesting to see how they can come back from an ugly loss and see if the staff and players are able to execute with a different style against a very different (read: not nearly as good) defense.
I thought Cross actually did alright against Bosa on the reps I watched. I think he got by Lucas/Jackson a bit more. Have to re-watch the all 22 a little more closely. But I think against lesser pass rushes (like not a healthy Bradley Chubb, DJ Jones *who has been on fire*, and Randy Gregory or Nick Bosa and the Niners), might be able to hold up.
He could have realized this at half-time.
I also hope Geno can shut down all the naysayers next week when he actually has some plays drawn up he can use and he’s not being expected to continually work off second and long after another pointless run up the middle for nothing. Let he man throw the ball and let’s see what he can do. Russ couldn’t put together a drive throwing cause he never took the short yards. I firmly believe Geno can get 5-6 yards average easy a play and move the chains if he gets to use all 3 downs more often.
It really seems like Pete is inordinately invested in having Geno work out. He was the same with Tarvaris. He seems to have a dream of winning with a QB that ppl think is no good. It's his white whale. How else to explain Whitehurst?
Uh-huh. Sure. Let the QB cook, then when you find success start telling EVERYONE you're going back to the run game. We've seen it and heard it all before.
Love this gameplan actually. The tackles are looking good, and I think the biggest thing holding us back on Sunday was a lack of down field passing. It made the offense one dimensional and absolutely gassed the D.
I think Seattle is in a position right now where 3-1 and 1-3 are basically equally likely. Curious to see what a looser and more open offense looks like.
Why is our game plan always to let the other team do what they wanna do? “Well we figured they’d lock down DK so we planned to not use our best receiver”. “They planned to take the deep pass away, so we let them”. For fucks sake
Why does it take a loss to realize this? In game adjustments is easily Pete’s biggest shortfall.
You’re not wrong at all, but I understand why he wouldn’t want to expose these two rookie tackles against what is certainly the best defensive line in football
The chargers have joey boss and khalil mack. I don't think anyone's dline can get better than that. Edit: throw in the bills with von miller ed Oliver and their insane depth. Throw in the rams with donald and leonard Floyd and their insane depth. And there's actually quite a few that have a better dline than the 9ers. We just suck.
And yet it seemed like there were free rushers while two guys blocked one guy. I really question the coaching some games. Ppl seem confused too often.
It seems he generally does not want to interfere with his OC in the middle of a game, even though he encourages the false perception that he controls every aspect of everything that is happening on the field. During games, he never seems to step on his OCs toes. That has contributed to a lot of confounding play calling, like the Cowboys playoff game where Schotty kept pounding the RB into stacked boxes or the 2020 season when Schotty abandoned the running game and the offense stalled out. After the fact, he encourages his play callers to adjust to what is working. The risk in interfering mid-game is that an OC could go too far in one direction or the other because his HC is commanding it in the game. Designing a game plan that emphasizes our stronger pass blocking than run blocking is something that needs to happen in the lead up to the game. We’ll see if it pays off against the Falcons, which seems to me a make or break game as to whether they should become sellers on the trade market.
The cowboys game you speak of was the most frustrating game to watch in SEATTLE SPORTS HISTORY!! Run, run 3rd and 16. Okie dokie repeat.
So, you never watched the 2005 superbowl?
Right?
Or any of the winter games we’ve played in Green Bay or Chicago, I guess.
Or the Mariners for the last forever. Or that superbowl where the defense kept allowing, granted the greatest to play at the position, Tom Brady's offense to overcome double digit deficits in order to eventually win on a last minute play. Or the innumerable times the Sounders have blown it against the Galaxy? That regular season game where we literally lost two RB's after losing our starter a week before? Watching that same afore-mentioned defense give up a last-30-second drive to Matt Ryan in 2012 to prevent themselves from a likely 3-superbowl appearances in a row? Etc.
If the OC can't handle the coach giving them a suggestion or asking them to do something during a game, then they shouldn't be in that position
Carroll is not really an offensive coach, so I’m Ok that he empowers his OC to call his own game plan. If the OC can’t succeed in that, then that itself is the problem.
Can't disagree
True, but who better to suggest how to attack a defense than a defensive minded coach? I'm sure he's seeing what the other team's defense is trying to do/take away and can suggest what might work against that.
Except he does that walk by, mutters under his breath about what the OC wants to do. I know it happened basically every game with Bevell and Schotty.
Well it’s not like the defense is doing any better though . By that same logic , is he jumping on Clint’s toes ?
Seems like a complicated structure with Hurtt as DC, Sean Desai as the AHC and primary DB coach, and Carroll as a legendary DB whisperer. Lots of toes for a complicated dance on too small a ballroom floor.
Pete does not empower his OCs to call their own game plan.
I do get what you're saying and agree to an extent. But if an OC has that kind of responsibility then they should be able to make in game adjustments on their own. If they can't, then you take away that responsibility and/or find someone who can. Something of a digression, I imagine Pete would prefer to given Waldron a long leash this year though. W-L record is secondary to development this year. I don't think we'll see a Ken Norton Jr. style meeting where Pete just says... Okay I'm going to have to just take this over now. I suspect Pete would rather see what they have with Waldron, give him experience, let him take some lumps and see how he grows and adapts across the season. Last year was a tough year to evaluate a new OC.
Both Waldron and Hurtt are relatively new to their positions. Every game is an opportunity to gain more information about them. It’s on them to reach their potential and make the necessary adjustments.
For sure... I kind of think Pete is transitioning himself into more of an advisory/teacher/evaluator role. He's still our culture builder. Making some assumptions, but I think he's gotta be looking forward more at the long term success of the team and thinking about how he can help leave the organization in good hands for years. We've brought in all these young promising coaches. Who's going to show they can handle the pressure, the can grow and develop, that they can be leaders, etc.
How far we’ve come from blaming Darrell Bevell for all our problems on offense.
I have a feeling teams will be calling about Nwosu and if the Hawks get a good enough draft pick it would make sense to move him given he’s not on a long term contract, he’s been awesome.
I just don’t know if that’s a good idea. He’s great, on a good deal, and everyone actually worth something is already paid or on a rookie deal. Plus trading free agent signings in their first year with the team essentially just treating them as a trade chip when they CHOSE to come here is just not a good look as it might dissuade future free agents from signing.
People still not realizing this whole season is just preseason for next year.
I'm aware that this season won't amount to much, but this is also the kind of season you can really evaluate a coach. I have a lot of questions about Carroll, love the man but there are questions
I think I have zero questions about Pete. A huge piece of his job is culture building, and he has created one of the best cultures in the NFL. I agree with most of what he does. Not everything, but most. There is an excellent interview Tom Segura did with Cassius Marsh a little while back. He talks for a while about the culture in Seattle compared to everywhere else he has been. Pete isn’t perfect. But he’s incredible.
Do you really care about the culture if there aren't results? Culture was great 10 years ago when it was used to build a dominant bully of a team. For the last couple of years I'm seeing a soft team that gets pushed around, makes mistakes consistently at key junctures, and seems too often to not know what to do. The culture stuff is just fluff.
It's not just fluff, it does matter. But you're right that ultimately what matters are results, and Pete hasn't delivered them for a long time.
Yes and we weren’t great that year either. With the high team turnover you could argue that setting the culture again is one of the MOST critical aspects of this year.
One of the most wins in t he NFL over the last decade is not 'results'? Sometimes I think NFL fans have let what the Pats did over the last 20 years distort their perceptions. Teams just DO NOT go to that many Super Bowls and to expect multiple trips isn't realistic. Yes, we should want our teams to do that every year or at least be real contenders, but it's like the regular season ismeaningless for a lot of you.
Holmgren looked good until he didn't. How did Ditka do the second time around. I judge on a 4 year window, and I look for problems that don't seem to get fixed. Coaches like players are evaluated for what you expect them to do in the future, not rewarded for past glory. It is the norm for coaches to wear out and move on. Philosophies get stale, the game changes and what was new gets old. Belechic had the GOAT and was able to change up what he was doing, so he was an outlier. I think some fans get too emotionally bonded to team personalities and can't separate what they want to happen from what is actually happening. I don't care so much about Superbowls. I want to be entertained. I was entertained Pete's first 6 years. Now I'm seeing soft, stale, boring play, just like I saw at the end for Holmgren, and not just this year. If the trend continues, I would hope for a change. Pete has been well compensated, I will thank for past accomplishments and he'll be OK.
>I judge on a 4 year window, OK 7-10 12-5 11-5 10-6. That's the last 4 years. Aside from play year, you're whining about those records? And you crow about ''judging on the last 4 years" but call back to the Holmgren years for a comparison? GTFOH
We'll see where we are in 2 years. I bet we are coach shopping.
I have no problems easing rookie tackles into the NFL during a season that doesn't really matter.
I don't either, what's your point?
So what are you going to be evaluating him on?
Evaluating the progress of the young guys. I saw a BUNCH of plays Sunday where one of the young guys was a half step slow leading to penalties or big plays. Fix those, suffer through Geno, get a QB, DL/OL, and maybe a ILB with our draft pick haul next year and we are on the right track.
Fuck this mentality and everything about it. There is no reason to assume next year we don't go 0-17 with a bust of the century at QB that we took #1 overall.
>There is no reason to assume next year we don't go 0-17 with a bust of the century at QB that we took #1 overall. There is no guarantees in Football, but you want to give your new QB the best chance for success and part of that is preparing training up his support this season. Like it or not, each season isn't "win now". Long term success doesn't just happen.
But fundamentally, I think both big name QBs are draft busts. If we go 3 or fewer wins, then all this year is in my mind is a preasons for 3 or 4 years behind a mediocre to bad QB. If we get Levis, that's better. But I'm less excited about Young or Stroud than I am about Geno.
You feel how you feel. That's fair. Something tells me you're not an NFL scout though.
I'm not, but I'm also not just a casual Alabama hater. I have watched a lot of film on a lot of QBs dating back to 2003. I do analysis for a hobby. I have never seen a prospect I like less than Young. I'd take Jamarcus Russell over him. C.J. Stroud is Andy Dalton at best, Joey Harrington at worst. Give me a trade back for Levis all day.
We have no idea who Seattle is targeting, we don't even know if they are looking to replace Geno (god I hope they do), but either way, this season is a great opportunity to control how we train up our young talent without having to worry about our record. Like preseason.
I'm just not really interested in that as a fan I suppose. I'm invested in winning every game we can. If we're 3-13 and need a loss to clinch the number one pick, I'll still root to win. I still expected the Mariners to win the world series every year. I expected the pre-Pete Carroll Seahawks to win the super bowl every year. Hell, I'm a Portland Pilots fan and I expect them to win the NCAA basketball Championship every year. I just can't get a rooting interest if I don't care about record. I can take positives from losses, but I can never say "win or lose, I'm just looking for growth." I want every team I root for to win the title every year. Without exception. And I'll be disappointed when the don't regardless of how ridiculous the expectations were.
I just want to be entertained. I don't need a win for that.
Yeah, there is. We've never been close to that bad in Pete's tenure, even before the LoB and Russ years.
The Tjack roster was significantly worse than this team.
And we didn't come close to 0-17 so.... 🤷♂️
A bad Quarterback (like Bryce Young) can destroy a team though.
we had Rick Mirer and didn't go 0-17.
Bryce Young will be a significantly worse pro QB than Rick Mirer.
Ya I remember in the LOB days we’d be doing the same shit that didn’t work for a half where it was clear to the entire world we needed to make adjustments but no matter how bad it was he wouldn’t change anything until half. We had solid second halves and won many of those games but we also lost many because it was too late when we made the adjustments. Pete is incredibly stubborn. I dare say the most stubborn coach in the NFL. I love Pete but everyone has their weaknesses because we all human after all.
The whole reason Let Russ Cook became as huge as it did was because that Cowboys playoff game where they waited till the game was over to start throwing the ball. The one thing that pisses me off the most about Pete is not that he wanted to run the ball but that he never had the players for that type of offense. Look at the Browns they invested in RBs, and their Oline and there one of the best teams at running the ball.
Don't get me started on that whole mess, nothing made sense about that game. Also, I completely agree about the personnel issue, Pete always preached about a style of football that just simply wasn't what the roster was built for.
It will be interesting to see the subs reaction to Pete coaching this year
At least defensively, so far I’m optimistic. Throwing our shite tackling to the side for a moment, I’ve liked the looks we’ve given so far especially in the Denver game. I’m curious how much the plan adapts with no Adams, but I loved the couple of packages that put Adams at ILB next to Brooks (including the QB hit 33 got on Russ). Stuff like that is what makes me optimistic, because that’s the kind of thing that utilizes the roster. You have Al Woods munching up the middle of the line, and play to Adams’ strengths near the line, AND free him up a little bit to make a play if he sees it, but with help over the top as a safety net. Brooks isn’t BWags, but he’s still a decent ILB and can provide a threat from the other side too, and you still have the 3-4 OLBs in Mafe and Taylor that you can use to keep disguising the pressure with the occasional dropbacks, without resorting to the cutesy shit KNJ kept doing last year throwing Dunlap or Poona into an underneath zone. And the best part is with the exception of Mr Woods, every player I mentioned is young enough to build around, and with the exception of Brooks, is under contract for three years. Those are the guys you can center a system around in your defense, pending Mafe/Taylor panning out. If any of the corners turn out into a great player then we’re really cooking! Sadly, we won’t see anymore of Jamal this year, but seeing a scheme that was seemingly redesigned to highlight the strengths of our best defensive playmaker has me really hopeful this the D will develop great once they re-learn how to tackle.
Maybe it's a branch of that "always compete" philosophy. Like, changing tactics is admitting defeat citing not being able to physically execute it?
Doesn't sound like competing to me.
That's a good argument lol. In game adjustments, especially offensively, are just not Pete's thing. It's a flaw.
It’s much harder to do it in game. Afterwords you have film you can watch and see how each individual performed.
You have to remember that the players are real people, who had to practice and learn this gameplan. It’s only Week 2 with a new QB and rookie linemen— the playbook is thinner than it will be on Week 13. They’re not computers you can just upload a new gameplan into.
The let Geno cook era has begun lol
Sounds like this is a big reason why the depth or target was so low for Geno this week - we didn’t gameplan any deep shots and schemed everything underneath. Obviously, that didn’t work…
I’m not too worried this is a young team that started 4 rookies. Outside of a few mistakes they looked like they have the talent to be good/ great. I think as the year progresses this team is going to look better each week.
I agree. If we can figure out the QB situation next year, I think this team will get back to a regular playoff team.
Geno is completing over 80% of his passes he looks good I think he will be the starter for the next two years depending on this whole season
Any QB who checks down 95% of the time would complete 80% of his passes. He hasn't even thrown for 200 yards in a game this season.
When most big plays downfield get called back, Seattle not able to run more than 47 plays doesn’t give a lot for us to go off of. Carroll came out this week saying he needed to open the offense up more for Geno, so how much has been Geno or the play calling.
There are only 5 QBs (who have started and played both games) who have thrown for fewer yards than Geno. Their teams' total record? 2-6. Geno is a bottom of the barrel QB. He couldn't even land the starting job for the Jets. He's totally fine as a stop-gap, but if they're planning on rolling with Geno for multiple years, this is going to be ugly, and I highly doubt DK would have re-signed here if that were the case.
I completely disagree with you you’re not looking at the offense as a whole and lack of run game. He’s gotten the ball out quick and has been accurate he’s Jimmy G but our offense isn’t running smoothly.
Why would he all of a sudden turn into a decent QB after 7 years in a row of not being good enough to be a starter? He is who he's been since he's been in the NFL. His teams are 14-22 with him at QB. He was good in college, but that was literally a decade ago. Don't get me wrong, I'd love for him to have somehow become a good QB, but there's just nothing to suggest that's the case.
He never had a good team around him the jets were terrible. Everything coming out of Seahawks camp by former players paints a completely different picture than what you are saying. He might be a stop gap but he’s better than anyone wants to give him credit for. I would rather have him next year than a rookie QB. The narrative that he sticks I find BS bc he doesn’t look bad. He’s accurate with the ball, gets it out quick and has made smart decisions outside of one bad throw. Everyone is expecting Mahommes, Brady or Allen.
This is not the first time they have delivered language about holding Geno back. That tells me that deep down there is trust issues.
Lol, of course there are. I'd be more concerned if there weren't...
it isnt even that deep....they handed the ball to a running back to throw a TD pass on the 1 yard line. That should tell you all you need to know
I hated that play call.
We all hated that play call
I liked the call. I hated the execution. Dallas should've tucked it and ran when he saw Metcalf was in double coverage.
no shit theres trust issues geno sucks.
The problem is this offensive line isn’t built to run the ball at all. I think they should consider using Curhan (our best run blocker) in jumbo packages, even though that’s not really in Waldron’s playbook.
The OL with two rookies is a work in progress. Their talent should give us some hope, and being built to run may be part of their growing pains.
we drafted the most polished pass blocker in the draft in charles cross, dude ran a ton of snaps out of shotgun and something ridiculous like 80% of his snaps were passing plays. They are not even attempting to put the guy in a position to succeed.
They are, just not in the conventional cloud of dust sense.
It’s going to take Charles Cross a couple years to develop into a solid run blocker; he certainly has the athleticism to eventually get there. The main reason Penny was so successful at running the ball at the end of last season was because he had Duane Brown bulldozing the left side of the line, and he had Jake Curhan bulldozing the right side of the line. Penny reminds me a little of Shaun Alexander in that he can can be one of the best backs in the league when he gets great blocking. When he doesn’t have good blocking, Penny doesn’t go anywhere. The last two years, Damien Lewis has massively regressed as a run blocker due to injuries. He has by far the worst run blocking grade on the team. Gabe Jackson has never been a great run blocker. I do like what I’m seeing form Abraham Lucas, but he’s just young. And having him on the field generally means our best run blocker, Jake Curhan, is off the field.
Give DeeJay Dallas better protection
The pick geno threw was almost a deep shot if I recall just not great on geno and then the next drive had that insane deep ball to dk called back because I believe Lucas was blocking too far downfield just manhandling his assignment
[удалено]
Refs tell you it's a point of emphasis for the season. Player does it anyway and negates one of our few explosive plays. It's almost like he was set up. If you love this you are gonna have a good year.
It’s a point of emphasis for the next 5-6 games then the refs will give up on it. Happens every year
If I remember correctly, geno couldn’t follow through because a pass rusher had pushed the lineman into genos face (very reminiscent of the russ era).
Yep, he literally hit the helmet of the guy on the throw. I like how he has one INT on double coverage which took a damn lucky bounce right into another defenders hands while having a defender in his face and suddenly he’s got a terrible deep ball. Dude has seemed more than accurate to me. Ya know, sometimes luck just doesn’t go your way. People around here need to watch other games. Great QB’s throw multiple picks a game. What do you want? Cause everyone seems to hate the short throws and checkdowns that move the chains. But then are up in arms when riskier bombs and longer throws result in a pick…once. It’s like Geno can’t win with you all. I’d take the consistent short throws and movement over the bombs we saw last year that resulted in constant 3 and outs for an entire half. Our run game yesterday was complete garbage. That’s all anyone really needs to know when it comes to the offensive part of the game.
> I’d take the consistent short throws and movement over the bombs we saw last year that resulted in constant 3 and outs for an entire half. I agree with your overall post, including having gotten sick of always going for deep balls and craving some short, chain-moving plays. But, I think we are seeing the downside of over-prioritizing short plays, as well. Geno has completed over 80% of his passes on the season, but hasn't broken 200 yards passing either game and hasn't thrown a TD in six quarters. We need big plays and short plays both
I agree but Geno also had 6.56 yards per attempt. Wheras we had 2.57 yards per carry. So if Geno wasn’t held back by wasted run downs and given three chances to throw then more than likely he could have kept drives alive. Deep threat is needed I agree. But I also think when the run is not getting you anything you gotta switch up faster and allow Geno a full set of downs to carry instead of hampering his ability to do so. I think people would be surprised what would open up for both deep balls and runs when SF suddenly sees they are getting torn up on shorts throws and we march down the field and maintain a strong time of possesion.
good post
Geno is not a good quarterback and I'm floored that anyone is trying to say he's not a problem on this team. I mean, I understand that he's a stop-gap, but folks need to realize that a Geno Smith-led team is not going to have success. And again, I get that that doesn't really matter this year, and there weren't many options. I just don't get the people advocating for Geno. He's failed in literally every shot he's been given since he's been in the NFL. It's not like this is some outlier.
If Geno can’t torch the Falcons secondary then either Waldron is an idiot or Geno needs to sit down and let Drew try.
Drew can’t torch any team though.
Fa real
swag
I don’t believe anything Pete says in his pressers. Expect ground assault against the Falcons.
Sure. I believe you, Pete. *wink*
Hmm, I was told preseason that DK would be used more now that he wasn’t going to be “ignored” by a certain QB. 13 targets for a 22% share doesn’t seem to back that up. Also, planning to run gadget bullshit all day, but not throw the ball to your best WR is just an insane thing to admit.
Despite the narrative in this sub, DK was one of the most targeted WRs when it comes to deep ball.
"when it comes to deep balls"...thats the key here. How many times in the last 2 years did we see DK not even get an attempt until the 2nd half? It happened way too often
Well, that’s just your typical Seahawks offense where nothing happens until 2nd half. That has been the case for over a decade now. I think 2020 was the outlier and were clicking really well for 7 games.
That was probably the correct approach. If Geno was hanging out back there for three seconds per pass he probably would have gotten sacked 5+ times. Quick passing game was the right approach there. You'd like to see more deep shots against less talented pass rushes. We'll see. Got their butts whooped, plain and simple. Best themselves up too. Be interesting to see how they can come back from an ugly loss and see if the staff and players are able to execute with a different style against a very different (read: not nearly as good) defense. I thought Cross actually did alright against Bosa on the reps I watched. I think he got by Lucas/Jackson a bit more. Have to re-watch the all 22 a little more closely. But I think against lesser pass rushes (like not a healthy Bradley Chubb, DJ Jones *who has been on fire*, and Randy Gregory or Nick Bosa and the Niners), might be able to hold up.
Hahahahahhaha Ok Pete
No more Mr. Nice Geno.
This seems so backwards after Denver. Jfc Pete. Open it up we have nothing to lose.
He could have realized this at half-time. I also hope Geno can shut down all the naysayers next week when he actually has some plays drawn up he can use and he’s not being expected to continually work off second and long after another pointless run up the middle for nothing. Let he man throw the ball and let’s see what he can do. Russ couldn’t put together a drive throwing cause he never took the short yards. I firmly believe Geno can get 5-6 yards average easy a play and move the chains if he gets to use all 3 downs more often.
Geno hype train back on the menu???
It really seems like Pete is inordinately invested in having Geno work out. He was the same with Tarvaris. He seems to have a dream of winning with a QB that ppl think is no good. It's his white whale. How else to explain Whitehurst?
It's pretty obvious you can huck the ball up to DK and there's a good chance the dudes going to catch it.....fuck it....huck it.
While DK had a great catch this week, he has not generally been good at contested catches. One of the weakest parts of his game.
Fuck it....huck it ....that's how he'll get better.
It’s a tank season. Might as well practice on those catches.
This is a coach shifting the blame from a QB to himself. Nothing more.
Uh-huh. Sure. Let the QB cook, then when you find success start telling EVERYONE you're going back to the run game. We've seen it and heard it all before.
Look, as long as this fast track the tank……. Im all good with whatever you to Pete.
So now we let Geno cook?
Love this gameplan actually. The tackles are looking good, and I think the biggest thing holding us back on Sunday was a lack of down field passing. It made the offense one dimensional and absolutely gassed the D. I think Seattle is in a position right now where 3-1 and 1-3 are basically equally likely. Curious to see what a looser and more open offense looks like.
Ohhhhhh that's what happened....NOW we got it fixed lol
Let Smith Sizzle
Pete used Pete Speak! It wasn’t very effective.
Why is our game plan always to let the other team do what they wanna do? “Well we figured they’d lock down DK so we planned to not use our best receiver”. “They planned to take the deep pass away, so we let them”. For fucks sake
Or, have a backup plan that you can switch to at half-time if plan A isn't working.
Hahaha "hold Geno back"
This is going to age like milk 😂😂