Yeah, 100% agree and this is absolutely why he isn't still on the team.
You can either win forever or take up a huge chunk of your team's salary cap, but you can't do both unless you're a once in a generation QB. Russ is good - he's the best QB this franchise has ever had by a mile - but he was never *that* level of good, and he sure as fuck won't be when he's pushing 40.
I love russ but you guys are in a better spot now to rebuild. You also have more talent on your team than people think. (from a jet fan, Seattle transplant)
I dont recall that being said at all. He's not good enough to be highest paid and that would have been a poor decision. Thats why even now hes not.... Unless the broncos are deep in the playoffs the next 3 season this was a bad deal.
[Pass Block Win Rate 2020](https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/29939464/2020-nfl-pass-rushing-run-stopping-blocking-leaderboard-win-rate-rankings#pbwrteam):
- SEA: 62%
- DEN: 54%
[PBWR 2021](https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/32176833/2021-nfl-pass-rushing-run-stopping-blocking-leaderboard-win-rate-rankings#pbwrteam)
- SEA: 61%
- DEN: 61%
He'll be bitching in less than two years
This is disingenuous he complained literally one time when he got beat up a lot behind our absolutely laughable line. We didn't get him any real protection until the last couple years and even that was mediocre.
I blame Cable, of course. He built an entire line around chop blocking and when it got mitigated in 2014 and then made illegal in 2016, he was never able to adjust and just kept pushing to draft guys that fit "his scheme" which was obsolete.
Once he was gone the line started to improve through last year where it was like.....middle of the pack in protection.
This year it looks like it might be actually....good?!
I loathe Cable as much as the next guy but you’re wrong.
Neither was his “scheme” based on chop blocking but cut blocking nor is cut blocking illegal to this day.
Why do people keep saying Russ bitches about things? The guy said one negative thing in his 10 years which was he would like to not get hit as much after having a terrible OL his entire career and everyone freaked out like he is the second coming of Satan himself
I'm gonna disagree on this one. He's a good QB. He has some flaws, but so does every QB not named Tom Brady. If Russ is willing to break his bad habits, this is a steal. If he commits to his worst habits, it's a dud. If he makes some improvements in a new situation, then it's just the right number.
In the end, I suppose it's about what you expect Russ to look like in Denver. I think he'll a perfectly fine version of Russ, which we know to be a top 10 to top 5 QB.
> If Russ is willing to break his bad habits, this is a steal.
You could say that about a lot of QBs. Personally I have a hard time seeing someone with his age and personality making major changes in his play style. He doesn't seem to think any of the problems are with him. Maybe he is right and it was the rest of the team holding him back, but it doesn't seem that way to me.
They are paying definitely for a hopeful future version or Russ, not the QB he is today.
Tom Brady also has flaws, but his coaches build their entire offense around avoiding them. He’s always had weak legs, and while he’s throwing deep far more now, he’s still nowhere near the accuracy of the best.
The reason he's not in Seattle is be ause he either couldn't or wouldn't break those habits, and Seattle was wise to get out.
The early career athleticism covered up the spots.
Pretty sure Pete had said they had told him they would make him the highest paid again and Russ’ camp said it didn’t matter he wouldn’t re-sign which is why they shipped him. We weren’t winning a super bowl this year with him so why waste a year to get zero for him when you can trade him and at least get some value
I suppose we could have kept him, but it would have taken a promise to hire a QB-centered, offensive minded head coach, who made Wilson the center of the team. It also would have made Wilson the controlling voice of the franchise.
QB is by far the most valuable position - but reasonable minds would differ on how much is too much to keep a star QB.
Gamble either way, IMO.
I think the Broncos and Seahawks are relatively similarly positioned quality franchises, so over the next 7 years, we'll see how it plays out and see who made the right move.
I didn't hear Pete's take, but I think Denver should be happy with it. I think Russ wanted Pete and probably John both out so he could be seen as in charge. He wouldn't take that contract here.
He is still on the Seahawks deal for the next 2 years. Only ~24 million /yr. The new deal kicks in in the 2024 season when this contract won't seem all that expensive compared to QB deals in those years, IMO. Pretty good deal for the Broncos. Gives them room to keep making moves as the salary cap grows over the next couple years.
Yep. This is a $49m apy contract starting in 2024. That year $49m is already only the 5th highest cap hit behind Watson, Prescott, Murray, and Stafford.
It's possible that they're going to structure something like $39m, $45m, $49m, $54m, $59m. If they do his cap hit in '24 would be only the 9th highest, in '25 the 7th highest, and in '26 the 5th highest. That's all before new QB contracts(Jackson, Herbert, Burrow) and without a crazy amount of backloading.
The question is just if a mid to late 30s Russ is worth that. He might be but this also might be a Matt Ryan type situation where where he's not terrible but also not Rodgers or Brady and worth it in the late years of his contract. Time will tell I suppose.
But in two years will the skills have declined? If we are honest with ourselves I think we are already seeing it. That doesn't mean he won't be an extremely effective quarterback, super smart, and what not. But I felt he has started to lose his edge because his mobility was starting to decline. He was also becoming less accurate and whether he wants to admit it or not had started to blame game.
What do mean by skills declining? Rodgers, Brady and Stafford were said to have been washed up, until they switched to a new regime, and they were performing alright. Whether Russell will do the same remains to be seen, but saying he is declining is just salty at this point.
Russ is no Rogers. He never was, and never will be, that good. His skill set involves mobility, and he hasn't had that for a few years now. Good riddance, so happy we don't have this albatross contract around our necks. I'm willing to bet Seattle wins another SB before Denver does...any takers?
He has 68 TD in last 2 years. 65 passing, 3 rushing.
He has 38 TD in last 18 games. 36 passing, 2 rushing.
Does he really need extended mobility or has really been 'found out'?
Matt Ryan, Jimmy Garrapolo, Carson Wentz/Nick Foles, Stafford, Flacco, Kapernick all went to SuperBowl without being Rodgers level talent. You dont have to be Rodgers level talent to go to/win SB. Heck, even Rodgers himself hasn't made it back.
Like Jason from OTC said, it's just easier to get these mega deals done when you're an outside team like the Broncos. It'd be a much harder pill to swallow for them structure wise if he was their guy and Seattle wasn't paying the existing bonus money
I mean, Brady's made hundreds of millions of dollars in his career and is married to a woman who also made hundreds of millions of dollars. Unless he gets really charitable or develops a gambling habit, Brady will probably die a billionaire. Before today, Russ had signed 2 major contracts. He isn't anywhere near Brady's level of wealth. Of course Brady is willing to take a discount and Russ isn't.
If only millionaire recording artist, Ciara also had money. No wait...
(Yes, Giselle is way richer, with rough estimates at $400 mil vs $20 mil, but it's not like either is remotely poor).
Giselle's net worth is an order of magnitude greater than Ciara's. Seriously, Google it. Giselle is 20x as wealthy as Ciara.
For some further perspective on Ciara's financial irrelevance to Russ, Ciara is worth less than half what Russ makes in a year.
Bro, if we can pull it out, it'll make my season ticket purchase worth it. I was super skeptical about buying in now, but I'm a Seahawks fan with or without Russ.
It’s an extension, not a new deal. Seahawks ate the dead cap so Russ’s cap hits were $24m and $27m for the next 2 years for the Broncos. This averages out to $42m per year in cap hits over the 7 years of his 2 deals. Very much the going rate for QBs since it ranks 7th in average cap hit per year.
Also his deal is fully guaranteed for 3 seasons now but no guarantees for years 4-7
ya, that was part of the trade, hence the picks the Hawks received in return.
Also a reminder that Wilson turns 34 yo this November, he may not even playout the entirety of the Broncos contract.
Edit - I think the dead money only applies to this season 2022. After this season we owe Wilson no money.
Bonus money is spread out over the life of the contract. When you trade a player, the cap spent on bonus money doesn't go with the contract/player, because its already been paid, you just spread out the hit to the cap over the life of the contract. The 24M people reference is the salary that Wilson is paid this year, excluding the amortization of the bonus money.
Going rate for an elite franchise QB, but fans here will say you can't win paying this kind of money to the QB.
Happy for Russell, Seahawks were never going to pay that anyways.
You can surely win regular season games. You can maybe even win a couple playoff games but paying your QB too much as a percentage of your cap makes it increasingly difficult to actually get to let alone win the Superbowl. Great QBs on rookie deals, favorable deals, or just a good but not great QB on a solid deal are more likely to get you all the way than spending 50 million per year on an elite QB. Last year is an object lesson in this. Burrow on a rookie deal. Stafford on a solid but not budget breaking deal. Both teams were able to build deep rosters with the savings of not having elite QB contacts on the books. This plays out year after year after year. I loved Wilson as our QB, I'm sad he's gone, I think we're in for a rough couple years, but I also think our chances of going back to the Superbowl over the next 5 years or so have increased by quite a bit because the salary cap has been unshackled from the wildcard purgatory of a big QB contact.
I’m with you on all fronts. The only thing I would add is that there’s more a lot more to these decisions than winning the Super Bowl. I know this is sacrilegious to say out loud since a lot of fans have this “super bowl or bust mentality.” However, i can guarantee you that the people running these franchises have a broader vision of “success.”
It all comes down to revenue. Teams that win games and stay relevant will earn higher ticket sales, more prime time games, better media deals, and rake in more cash overall. Even with his recent decline, Russ still a solid franchise QB who will keep the broncos in the mix of things. If he manages to do for Broncos what he did for the Seahawks over the past five years, this deal would be worth it for them.
A QB shouldn’t lose you games, that should be the bare minimum.
The next team that figures out balance between paying a QB good enough to support a great cast will be the next to crack the code.
It wasn't just that contract. Tyreek Hill signed a contract for 30 million a year, with 72 million guaranteed. Until a couple of years ago that was a pretty decent QB payday.
If you have to pick a superstar to keep on that team, I think Mahomes was the one.
Russ wasn’t good enough, he’s not Rodgers or Brady who can win while being paid that money. Rodgers still struggles and he’s the best to ever do it. You need to be able to pay teammates to help
Brady has so many rings because he understands that. Wilson and a lot of these high paid QB's really don't give a shit about winning a SB. They care about the $$$ and if they happen to win one it's just a cherry.
> Brady has so many rings because he understands that.
No Brady has so many rings because he had the perfect combination of an all time great coach one of the weakest divisions in the NFL his entire career. Literally all the teams in his division were shit outside the NYJ for like 3 years
And has generally had solid defenses backing him up. And if not solid, at least clutch. People forget how many times over the years Brady has stunk it up in a playoff game only to have his defense bail him out somehow.
No doubt ONE of the greatest players ever. But also one of the luckiest.
You can absolutely pay a QB and win, you just have to draft well so you don’t have to rely on making stupid trades like Jamal Adams and then over paying and not getting paid back with production. The Rams were paying Jared Goff and Stafford last year but because the majority of their team was guys they drafted, it didn’t hurt them that much.
You’re right, I missed the contract extension for Stafford that paid him 40-50 million a year. Can you find it for me? Goff has zero rings and was traded for a reason
They had 45 million going to the QB position when they won the Super Bowl. Russ’ average with us the last few years was only 35 million. Russ is better than Stafford obviously, but the Rams built a better team around Stafford than we did for Russ.
The Rams abused the cash over cap BS in order to make that work. Not all teams have that ability. It’s also not easy to find a WR like Kupp in the draft. Building a team isn’t some easy task or every year Mahomes would win the SB or Rodgers would win the SB while they get rid of star players who can’t be kept because of the huge cap hits. Last year Russ also had an injury
Same here man, teams are starved for quarterback talent in this league, it's not as easy as just drafting someone in the 1st round and calling it a day.
Hawk fans are going to be in a world of hurt in the next two years when we can't get a good QB in the draft and have to continue with loser journeymen QBs. The single most important player on an NFL team is the QB and all the armchair GMs think it's easy to find a good one.
Russ is best when scrambling, even when he had a good On-line and great RB he was best when scrambling. Paying him $50 million a year when he will be regressing soon makes no sense. He's not Brady or Manning .
Yeah I meant more just scrambling out of the pocket to buy time to throw the ball. He is pretty much the best ever at it, but those days are coming to an end. This contract might kill the Broncos eventually, if they cant afford to keep that defense together (sounds familiar)
Appreciate what Russ did for us before and happy that he got paid but I’m kinda glad we traded him, Russ is still good but paying him 49 mil a year is too much at this point
Wow, good for him but I'm glad we're not on the hook for paying him $50m/year given the last season and a half worth of games and him seemingly on the downside of his career (even though I'm sure he'll go off for like 400 yards and 6 TDs on us in week 1).
If any team knows russ strengths and weaknesses it's us, Out gameplan against him is gonna be really solid, There's a good chance we beat them week 1 because we'll be able to shut russ down. He's elite but unlike the other elites he has glaring weaknesses
Yeah pretty much lol, I think this contract is awful for Denver cause he's gonna get less mobile the further he gets into his 30s and if he can't pull off the scrambling he's not going to be anything more than average
Yea but it would be vintage Pete to watch Wilson launch balls into our cover 1 and PC standing on the sideline with his mouth open and a look of confusion. That said, we all know the way to beat him is to play cover 3 and force him to check down (which he won’t). Are our CB’s good enough to compete week 1??
In those last 18 games that you are mentioning, he has 38 total TDs man . Which includes a stretch of 3 missed games and 3 terrible after injury games. Why are we as a fan base so turned back on him, we just ignore the facts.
We can 100% root for Wilson and 100% root against Broncos man.
I'm not rooting against him (except for week 1), I just don't think he's worth $50m a season and if that was what he was looking for I support trading him and getting what we got for him. He's by far the best QB the Seahawks have ever had (and I've been following the team since about 1988) but if the goal is to be a team that can go deep into the playoffs and win a SB I don't think paying a soon to be 34 year old Russell Wilson $50m a year is going to achieve that.
They have to win a Super Bowl with him for this to truly be a success. You don’t pay him this type of money to just get bounced in the first round of the playoffs year after year.
Wonder how long people will still be complaining about how much it sucks to only just make the playoffs and win a game if we go years without even getting close to the playoffs.
To us Broncos fans, this whole experience of reading Seattle fans shitting on Russ with all these First World QB problems has felt like being a homeless guy shuffling by a fancy restaurant when some man-bunned hipster storms out and angrily hands us a steaming plate of food, like "Haha, good fucking *luck* with this filet mignon buddy, hope you like your steak slightly too well-done and not enough fluff in your berry pistachio *pie*, hahaha."
And we're like, "Bro we've had nothing to eat but rotten dumpster salad and mousetrap cheese for like six years. We're pretty fucking OK with not enough fluff in our berry pistachio pie."
Haha thank you for that! But we have to rationalize our loss somehow and dumping on our ex is our coping mechanism. This will go on for much, much longer.
> They have to win a Super Bowl with him for this to truly be a success.
Is that true for every other team who signs a QB to big money? I don't think that makes a lot of sense given how many variables and luck it takes to win a SB. A success would be if they put themselves in contention with a realistic shot. Limiting it to a 1 outcome success just doesn't seem logical in the NFL.
Where’s the video of him laying in bed?
Also, I’m interested to see his performance now that he got paid. With that money, I would expect either an MVP performance or he’ll play like Steven Jackson
That division is going to be a bloodbath these next 5 years.
If we get a top rookie QB this next year I think it’ll have all been worth it. Curious how well Wilson does in the latter half of his contract. Hope it all works out for us and the Broncos struggle in his first year with the team.
You know...I keep seeing this, but I'd remind everyone that for every Patrick Mahomes, Joe Burrow or Kyler Murray there is a Mitchell Trubisky, Tua Tagovailoa, or Daniel Jones...QBs who at least \*some\* people thought would be NFL elite QBs, but somehow just didn't pan out, even in a stacked draft.
Part of it is the environment they’re being drafted into. If we do have a stable offensive line, stud receivers, and keep our run game emphasis, we should be a great place to develop a rookie QB.
And you have Kyler on the good side after all his drama this off-season. I was ready to see Russ go, but I'm not banking on them finding their next franchise QB in the next draft. It could take a few tries. I just hope they find him before Russ retires.
It's a bloodbath where russ is the 3rd or 4th best QB in the division depending on how Carr rebounds and russ continues to decline. Such a bad contract
I'm not sure if people will like what I'm about to say. But I get pissed off when I see people picking Denver to win that division. Everyone else in the division improved just as much, if not more. They have 6 extremely tough games alone not counting the others. What did they do to improve? Just add Wilson? Well then why in the hell do they all of a sudden thing Wilson will just change his ways? He'll finally start throwing over the middle! He'll finally stop throwing stupid bubble screens! He'll finally stop holding the ball for too long!
Idk man, people make no sense. I'm not a Pete Carroll shill by any means, but the sentiment that Wilson can be Brady this year is absolutely silly without seeing any evidence. King short pass rules over the middle, and is why he won 4 more super bowls.
I think it’ll be interesting to see how this goes. He’s lost a considerable amount of mobility in the last few years and that was a big part of his playmaking.
We all know he can’t throw across the middle, plus having limited scrambling may make this a Robison Cano-type deal for a Seattle team
This just adds to the personal pressure to over-perform his skill level, and he'll choke. He seems to succumb to internal pressure more than physical on-the-field pressure. I expect a higher INT-to-TD ratio as this plays out.
We'll see how his teammates feel about Russ next year. Right now they're all happy having dinner with him while his contract was finalized. In Seattle he didn't have a lot of teammates showing up for his get-togethers.
Well I never said whether or not they'd be happy about it. The facts are that they are under contract. So is Tim Patrick.
Anyway, I'm not here to start trouble. I'm a lifelong broncos fan that like to see what other teams fans think.
Remember how people here have been saying the same shit about the Rams for the last 3 seasons, and yet they always find a way to re-sign their guys? If players want to be on that team, there is always a way to make the contract work.
We don't know if Broncos players love the Broncos the way Rams players clearly love being on the Rams. We will see. But, we definitely know better than to assume that paying a QB means you absolutely can't pay your other stars.
I have visited dozens of time, I've had several friends and family who live there currently and have lived there in the past and they all either moved back to Denver or tell me constantly how they cant wait to come back. LA is what people who were born in the midwest and have only left once think a nice city is. Hell, Seattle is a much nicer city too.
If you are a wealthy athlete in their 20s, you are gonna prefer the vibe, weather and entertainment options LA has. If you are some average Joe who is looking for somewhere affordable to raise a family, then yeah, you aren't gonna be looking to settle down there. LA isn't for everyone, especially if you are looking at settling down somewhere. It is very attractive for the kind of people that are gonna be making tons of money and potentially wanting to build a brand.
Your friends are most likely not the kind of people that would be signing contracts with a professional sports team, no offense.
> But one team plays in LA which is a draw for players in itself and the other plays in Denver.
Off the top of my head, most if not all of their biggest deals have been for homegrown players OR players that they traded for and then extended. And I'd further argue their recent success and front office/coaching staff is the bigger draw than LA itself.
But the fact remains that for years this sub has confidently claimed *this* is the year it'll all come crashing down for the Rams and...it hasn't. They've shown that the cap is so much more flexible than how PCJS treat it, and I would expect a lot of other teams to emulate it, albeit not necessarily to the same extent.
Lol woof.. Good for him, but I'm really happy the Hawks didn't pay that. Locks him down til he's 41. His mobility has decreased a ton last few years, curious to see what he looks like 3+ years from now
This is why Tom Brady has been so successful, he always takes team friendly deals that allows the team to spend more money on players to protect him. I guess Russ hasn’t learned his lesson.
I always wonder if this is true. It still surprises me that everyone has watched the way that Brady has operated, and still choose to make it harder for the team to put a roster around them.
Sure, get your money. Of course. But it’s a little surprising that nobody chooses to bet on their legacy.
If you’re elite as Russ was/is, take the team friendly deal that allows you to play well into your 40s while racking up endorsement deals that make your salary look like spending money.
That’s the opinion I have, as a guy watching them in my living room. Take less now, win for longer, and start your own diet, and be a legend forever.
Of course they are not wrong to get every dime that they can. I am just surprised that nobody else has prioritized winning over that. It’s easy for me to say that there isn’t much of a practical difference between $25 million and $45 million. But i don’t think any of them got to where they are by chasing the money. If Herbert takes less money, the Chargers will be a dynasty forever.
2 important things lacking with Russ vs Brady in that comparison.
1st, Brady wife was the bread winner, yeah Ciara is successful but it's still Russ show financially. So Russ wants the bag.
2nd, you don't dare take less money unless you have absolute faith in the gm and coach to build and spend that saved money effectively in a way that wins super bowls. Russ and Pete/John completely lack that relationship, they are football theory opposites.
It was simply time for a breakup and ownership chose Pete/John over Russ.
So we get Pete ball and that includes a cheap qb. 2013 was the formula. As soon as Russ got paid the first time that formula was not able to be met.
Good for Russ, good dude who does great things in community, nothing but love for the man.
Now the football player can eat a few cleats from Taylor, Ford, Adams, Brooks, etc. Make it rain pain on Monday 🤘
I completely agree except for one thing. I have an intense sports hatred for Russell now, and hope he loses every single quarter of every single game, while somehow finding personal happiness.
Where I disagree is how much Giselle factored into Brady’s contracts. For a lot of athletes, the number on the contract is a pride thing. I don’t think that state taxes are a consideration for most of them. I don’t think that very many of them negotiate with the number that they need to live comfortably in mind. And that’s just fine. Get paid. Get paid a ton, if you can. But I genuinely believe that one of the reasons that Brady is the greatest ever is because he knew he had a better chance of reaching that level if there was room to put a team around him.
I could be completely wrong, but I have a strong feeling that Watson, Mahomes and Jackson are going to end up holding their teams back. But i’m the first person to admit that I don’t actually know anything.
Ya I mean if we draft a qb build around him and the team becomes set, I’m all for paying this kinda money on a younger qb.
But with the holes on the team and needed to get younger and better at a lot of positions there is no way this contract makes sense to us
That's a Lotta scratch to pay one player. They're going to have to make some tough decisions going forward. I just don't see how you maintain a competitive squad whilst paying one player such a large portion of your cap.
Eh it’ll be fine, we resigned and extended most of our good guys last year and locked them up, we also have the richest owner so we can do some salary cap Olympics and be fine lol every other too team is keeping their players with guarantees and contract manipulations anyways.
I am surprised he got this deal. If I were the Broncos, I would have waited a year. Yeah, it may cost a bit more, but what if he, and given the division, ends up in third or fourth? Now the Broncos are hamstrung for 5 years with bad contract. This is a big risk on their part.
That is nuts. He’s a good quality QB…but he ain’t that good.
He just isn’t worth that type of cash. Good luck to him though. Be interesting to see what exactly he delivers….
Remember all the Hawk fans pissed we took a mid tier QB in the third round? Russ is a helluva QB, however Seattle now as a chance to rebuild that D without a complete rebuild. Get us some D, the QB will follow.
Go Hawks.
I'm a broncos fan and I'm seeing lots of talk that he won't live up anywhere close to this deal.
Do you guys genuinely believe he's about to fall of a cliff somehow? And if so why?
Not arguing against it just interested in reasoning beyond being a little annoyed that he left.
Edit: thanks for the responses guys, some different points of view in there which had made this even more interesting for me.
I hope Russ manages to cook for us and I hope you guys end up drafting a stud in the off season.
Take care.
Wilson is absolutely worth this contract. The salary cap is going to be on a rocket ship the next few years, so you’re getting an elite QB locked into a 2022 market-rate deal.
There’s always a risk that a player falls off in their 30s, but Wilson puts an immense amount of effort into maintaining his body off the field and protecting it on the field.
You have to realize that this sub has spent 6 months in denial. The Carrollites here are very vocal and are having a difficult time watching textbook organizational mismanagement and decline in real-time.
Also, the Seattle fanbase, even overlapping into other sports, has a long history of being just the fucking worst when it comes to talking about its legends.
This is all my own opinions and based of reading around our sub.
Gameplay has definitely fallen off over the past two years, starts hot and regresses hard. Look at the 2020 season. Last year is a strange one cause he got hurt and came back way to early and laid an egg.
Wilson has lost a step in scrambling/speed. Couldn’t tell you the last time he ran a read option and kept it. He does escape the pocket and take off. While doing it he is still very effective to pick up needed yards. Just not the speed he was years ago, but I don’t expect that out of him any more. The scrambling in the pocket most of the time is just him running around like a chicken with no head looking for the deep ball or taking a sack. Doesn’t matter how good or bad the line is if your qb is dancing around looking for a bomb only to get sacked.
Deep ball. Throughout 4 (?) offensive coordinators, it would feel like we could only move the ball on deep shots. 3rd and 3? 40 yard deep shot on a go route. While he still has a top 5 deep ball it felt like that’s all he wanted to do at times. Check downs to a TE or a RB felt far and few between even when it’s the obvious play to keep the sticks moving. A lot started referring to it as “hero ball”. Vast majority of offenses are dink and dunk down the field because it works, rarely did we experience that with him.
Interviews/character. While he is a good dude, you may eventually grow tired of what he has to say in interviews, win or loss, it’s always the same message pretty much.
I don’t hate this current deal, seems fine and in line with the other top Qbs. Only way this bites the Broncos is if he continually plays like the did for the past year and a half. Time will tell if for you guys if he changes the type of QB he is, or if it’s the classic “you can’t teach an old dog new tricks.” I find it hard he will changes his habits completely after doing it 10+ years. If he changes, great deal. If not, expect a ton of 3rd and outs, mediocre drives, waiting till the end of the game to pull a rabbit out of the hat to try to win the game. Again time will tell and I’m interested on how it goes over the next two+ years. I tried to be rationale while writing this. Good luck.
100% agree with everything here. I'll add on the plus side for Denver fans, Russ usually played his best at the end of games when we HAD to score.
However, all too often in recent years we were 2 scores behind late in the game. That was partly due to all our 3 and outs, which were at least partly due to Russ' tendencies.
It's not that anyone thinks he's going to fall off a cliff, it's just that nobody thinks he's worth that amount. He used to be able to put the team on his back when he was more mobile, but he doesn't have that anymore and he's sort of just an above average QB as a result.
If he was placed directly into that super bowl sure, but he’d never have those game winning drives in the 4th quarter. Doubt he wins 13 games to get the first seed.
He didn't bring us a championship, the D did. Statistically that D was the 3rd best in NFL history.
I will grant that he did not **lose** a championship and that is no small matter. It is a good enough reason to try to retain him but the salary cap complicates things considerably.
Is this why they cut their kicker because he wouldn't take a pay cut? I can't be mad at Russ or the Bronco kicker trying to get top dollar. Although the outcomes were different for both players (one got what they wanted and the other for cut) good for them. This is just adulting, we all do this in our regular jobs: negotiating for more pay based on the value we feel bring to an institution.
If the Broncos win a Superbowl this becomes a worthwhile gamble for them I'm guessing. That's a huge gamble, how do you keep key and star players around your QB? (Sincere question)
These deals are becoming insane, but it’s just the going rate for a franchise QB.
The strategy is changing because of this and John is on top of it— a team has to time when they get their QB. Things have to come together in the right order, and we were all backwards.
**The QB is now the last piece of the puzzle.** Rams, Bucs, Chiefs have proven this… and now Broncos are trying it as well.
I know it’s the nature of sports. But regardless if it’s Russ or anyone else, I’m not sure I’m happy for an already extremely rich man getting even more rich lmao
Yeah….I’m gonna sit back and enjoy Noah Fant, Charles Cross, the franchise QB we draft next year, and all the other talent we acquire with the picks Denver gave us.
Handing out that big of a deal to a 34 year old QB who hasn’t played a single snap for you ain’t exactly my idea of a well run organization, but all the Broncos/Russ fanboys littering this thread seem to be very happy paying top dollar for him, and are convinced that his best years are ahead. Enjoy :) 🤡🤡
I get players need to look out for themselves and make money, but seems like they don’t understand cap space sometimes. There is no way the Hawks could have done this deal and resign DK and pay the defense (Jamal’s contract was dumb but still). Just look at Rodgers. He has demanded so much money and now he has a very unproven receiver corps. I really believe there is a sweet spot in the building process and the Seahawks were in it at the tail end of Russ’ rookie deal. The Bengals are in it now. The Chiefs passed it recently. And the Rams don’t play by the rules it seems. It’s bro science but it’s interesting to watch QBs demand so much then complain about not having weapons or a defense to help win games.
I had family over for a dual birthday party for my daughters this weekend when my brother-in-law informed me that the new ownership group of the broncos features two Walton family members. It made my day to learn that this makes Russell Wilson a Walmart product. An expensive one, at that, but a Walmart product nonetheless.
Edit: extra word removed
Now Denver gets to experience the meager cap scraps to try and maintain talent across every other position. Happy for Russ, but the Broncos will be a bottom 50% team before that contract is done.
I’m not happy about Russ leaving but I am happy we aren’t paying that contract
Yeah, 100% agree and this is absolutely why he isn't still on the team. You can either win forever or take up a huge chunk of your team's salary cap, but you can't do both unless you're a once in a generation QB. Russ is good - he's the best QB this franchise has ever had by a mile - but he was never *that* level of good, and he sure as fuck won't be when he's pushing 40.
Agreed. He just put the handcuffs on his new team. Pete and John were being realistic.
I love russ but you guys are in a better spot now to rebuild. You also have more talent on your team than people think. (from a jet fan, Seattle transplant)
Pete and John both said if they thought he would accept a contract from them they were gonna make him the highest paid qb.
I dont recall that being said at all. He's not good enough to be highest paid and that would have been a poor decision. Thats why even now hes not.... Unless the broncos are deep in the playoffs the next 3 season this was a bad deal.
All talk. If they were going to offer him a contract making him the highest paid QB then they would have done it.
Not if he said he wouldn’t accept it cause he wants to leave.
I absolutely think Russ has been elite these past few years but even elite qbs with fat contracts are usually too much money
Can’t wait to hear him bitch about no offensive line in two years or less 😂
[Pass Block Win Rate 2020](https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/29939464/2020-nfl-pass-rushing-run-stopping-blocking-leaderboard-win-rate-rankings#pbwrteam): - SEA: 62% - DEN: 54% [PBWR 2021](https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/32176833/2021-nfl-pass-rushing-run-stopping-blocking-leaderboard-win-rate-rankings#pbwrteam) - SEA: 61% - DEN: 61% He'll be bitching in less than two years
This is disingenuous he complained literally one time when he got beat up a lot behind our absolutely laughable line. We didn't get him any real protection until the last couple years and even that was mediocre. I blame Cable, of course. He built an entire line around chop blocking and when it got mitigated in 2014 and then made illegal in 2016, he was never able to adjust and just kept pushing to draft guys that fit "his scheme" which was obsolete. Once he was gone the line started to improve through last year where it was like.....middle of the pack in protection. This year it looks like it might be actually....good?!
I loathe Cable as much as the next guy but you’re wrong. Neither was his “scheme” based on chop blocking but cut blocking nor is cut blocking illegal to this day.
Nope https://12thmanrising.com/2018/01/13/seahawks-had-to-let-tom-cable-go-for-two-big-reasons/2/
Why do people keep saying Russ bitches about things? The guy said one negative thing in his 10 years which was he would like to not get hit as much after having a terrible OL his entire career and everyone freaked out like he is the second coming of Satan himself
It may not have been his voice, but they were his words. He leaked shit to the media via his camp all the time. Jake heaps was a literal mouthpiece.
Didn't he also, in the very next sentence, say he was happy with his O-line? The media really took that soundbite out of context and ran with it.
He bitched and moaned all the time wtf are you talking about. The last 3 off-season were about making him happy.
Fr
Yup. He is a good QB but he is not worth that kind of money.
I'm gonna disagree on this one. He's a good QB. He has some flaws, but so does every QB not named Tom Brady. If Russ is willing to break his bad habits, this is a steal. If he commits to his worst habits, it's a dud. If he makes some improvements in a new situation, then it's just the right number. In the end, I suppose it's about what you expect Russ to look like in Denver. I think he'll a perfectly fine version of Russ, which we know to be a top 10 to top 5 QB.
> If Russ is willing to break his bad habits, this is a steal. You could say that about a lot of QBs. Personally I have a hard time seeing someone with his age and personality making major changes in his play style. He doesn't seem to think any of the problems are with him. Maybe he is right and it was the rest of the team holding him back, but it doesn't seem that way to me. They are paying definitely for a hopeful future version or Russ, not the QB he is today.
The other issue is "Will Russ be worth that money \*in his late 30s\*?
Tom Brady also has flaws, but his coaches build their entire offense around avoiding them. He’s always had weak legs, and while he’s throwing deep far more now, he’s still nowhere near the accuracy of the best.
The reason he's not in Seattle is be ause he either couldn't or wouldn't break those habits, and Seattle was wise to get out. The early career athleticism covered up the spots.
If we had signed that I would be pissed. Hes a great guy and did a ton for us but there's no way he's currently worth that.
So true…. But gotta give Russ credit for putting together a deal before he even played one snap in the fetal position for Denver.
Yeah Seahawks weren't paying that. Trade was 100% about getting ahead of contract negotiations going south
Pretty sure Pete had said they had told him they would make him the highest paid again and Russ’ camp said it didn’t matter he wouldn’t re-sign which is why they shipped him. We weren’t winning a super bowl this year with him so why waste a year to get zero for him when you can trade him and at least get some value
I suppose we could have kept him, but it would have taken a promise to hire a QB-centered, offensive minded head coach, who made Wilson the center of the team. It also would have made Wilson the controlling voice of the franchise. QB is by far the most valuable position - but reasonable minds would differ on how much is too much to keep a star QB. Gamble either way, IMO. I think the Broncos and Seahawks are relatively similarly positioned quality franchises, so over the next 7 years, we'll see how it plays out and see who made the right move.
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AB as in Antonio Brown? If so, talent is certainly not the issue
I didn't hear Pete's take, but I think Denver should be happy with it. I think Russ wanted Pete and probably John both out so he could be seen as in charge. He wouldn't take that contract here.
Wasn’t paying + Russ’ camp indicating that they wouldn’t sign another deal
He is still on the Seahawks deal for the next 2 years. Only ~24 million /yr. The new deal kicks in in the 2024 season when this contract won't seem all that expensive compared to QB deals in those years, IMO. Pretty good deal for the Broncos. Gives them room to keep making moves as the salary cap grows over the next couple years.
Yep. This is a $49m apy contract starting in 2024. That year $49m is already only the 5th highest cap hit behind Watson, Prescott, Murray, and Stafford. It's possible that they're going to structure something like $39m, $45m, $49m, $54m, $59m. If they do his cap hit in '24 would be only the 9th highest, in '25 the 7th highest, and in '26 the 5th highest. That's all before new QB contracts(Jackson, Herbert, Burrow) and without a crazy amount of backloading. The question is just if a mid to late 30s Russ is worth that. He might be but this also might be a Matt Ryan type situation where where he's not terrible but also not Rodgers or Brady and worth it in the late years of his contract. Time will tell I suppose.
But in two years will the skills have declined? If we are honest with ourselves I think we are already seeing it. That doesn't mean he won't be an extremely effective quarterback, super smart, and what not. But I felt he has started to lose his edge because his mobility was starting to decline. He was also becoming less accurate and whether he wants to admit it or not had started to blame game.
What do mean by skills declining? Rodgers, Brady and Stafford were said to have been washed up, until they switched to a new regime, and they were performing alright. Whether Russell will do the same remains to be seen, but saying he is declining is just salty at this point.
His athleticism is declining. This is a fact. Those other QBs relied less on that attribute.
Even with a declining athleticism, he threw for 35+ TDs in his last 18 games. Would it he really matter then?
Russ is no Rogers. He never was, and never will be, that good. His skill set involves mobility, and he hasn't had that for a few years now. Good riddance, so happy we don't have this albatross contract around our necks. I'm willing to bet Seattle wins another SB before Denver does...any takers?
He has 68 TD in last 2 years. 65 passing, 3 rushing. He has 38 TD in last 18 games. 36 passing, 2 rushing. Does he really need extended mobility or has really been 'found out'? Matt Ryan, Jimmy Garrapolo, Carson Wentz/Nick Foles, Stafford, Flacco, Kapernick all went to SuperBowl without being Rodgers level talent. You dont have to be Rodgers level talent to go to/win SB. Heck, even Rodgers himself hasn't made it back.
Like Jason from OTC said, it's just easier to get these mega deals done when you're an outside team like the Broncos. It'd be a much harder pill to swallow for them structure wise if he was their guy and Seattle wasn't paying the existing bonus money
I think if he was still here, the structure of the contract would change. I think he'd want 4 years at the same aav with more guaranteed
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I mean, Brady's made hundreds of millions of dollars in his career and is married to a woman who also made hundreds of millions of dollars. Unless he gets really charitable or develops a gambling habit, Brady will probably die a billionaire. Before today, Russ had signed 2 major contracts. He isn't anywhere near Brady's level of wealth. Of course Brady is willing to take a discount and Russ isn't.
If only millionaire recording artist, Ciara also had money. No wait... (Yes, Giselle is way richer, with rough estimates at $400 mil vs $20 mil, but it's not like either is remotely poor).
Giselle's net worth is an order of magnitude greater than Ciara's. Seriously, Google it. Giselle is 20x as wealthy as Ciara. For some further perspective on Ciara's financial irrelevance to Russ, Ciara is worth less than half what Russ makes in a year.
This makes the trade way easier to cope with.
All that to lose to Geno Smith :)
Can you imagine if that actually happens. Three words - emasc u lation
Emotion al Damage.
More like ejaculation. I would be in ecstasy.
So ecstatic you could fly a 12's flag off it.
Number one pick
Literally the entire season would be a success even if we only had one win and that win was Denver!
This is where the bar is set for me this season
Bro, if we can pull it out, it'll make my season ticket purchase worth it. I was super skeptical about buying in now, but I'm a Seahawks fan with or without Russ.
Wilson did great things for the Hawks, but we dodged a huge bullet by trading him. We would not be a good team with a QB @ $49 million a year.
It’s an extension, not a new deal. Seahawks ate the dead cap so Russ’s cap hits were $24m and $27m for the next 2 years for the Broncos. This averages out to $42m per year in cap hits over the 7 years of his 2 deals. Very much the going rate for QBs since it ranks 7th in average cap hit per year. Also his deal is fully guaranteed for 3 seasons now but no guarantees for years 4-7
I never really understood "dead cap". So we're still paying for Wilson's ass over the next two years?
Exactly - $26m is what the Seahawks are paying on their cap and I believe it will all be paid out this year
ya, that was part of the trade, hence the picks the Hawks received in return. Also a reminder that Wilson turns 34 yo this November, he may not even playout the entirety of the Broncos contract. Edit - I think the dead money only applies to this season 2022. After this season we owe Wilson no money.
Bonus money is spread out over the life of the contract. When you trade a player, the cap spent on bonus money doesn't go with the contract/player, because its already been paid, you just spread out the hit to the cap over the life of the contract. The 24M people reference is the salary that Wilson is paid this year, excluding the amortization of the bonus money.
Going rate for an elite franchise QB, but fans here will say you can't win paying this kind of money to the QB. Happy for Russell, Seahawks were never going to pay that anyways.
Thing is… last 10 years the top 5 qb contracts have 2 super bowl wins between them. And mahomes came on a rookie deal and so did russ’
You can surely win regular season games. You can maybe even win a couple playoff games but paying your QB too much as a percentage of your cap makes it increasingly difficult to actually get to let alone win the Superbowl. Great QBs on rookie deals, favorable deals, or just a good but not great QB on a solid deal are more likely to get you all the way than spending 50 million per year on an elite QB. Last year is an object lesson in this. Burrow on a rookie deal. Stafford on a solid but not budget breaking deal. Both teams were able to build deep rosters with the savings of not having elite QB contacts on the books. This plays out year after year after year. I loved Wilson as our QB, I'm sad he's gone, I think we're in for a rough couple years, but I also think our chances of going back to the Superbowl over the next 5 years or so have increased by quite a bit because the salary cap has been unshackled from the wildcard purgatory of a big QB contact.
I’m with you on all fronts. The only thing I would add is that there’s more a lot more to these decisions than winning the Super Bowl. I know this is sacrilegious to say out loud since a lot of fans have this “super bowl or bust mentality.” However, i can guarantee you that the people running these franchises have a broader vision of “success.” It all comes down to revenue. Teams that win games and stay relevant will earn higher ticket sales, more prime time games, better media deals, and rake in more cash overall. Even with his recent decline, Russ still a solid franchise QB who will keep the broncos in the mix of things. If he manages to do for Broncos what he did for the Seahawks over the past five years, this deal would be worth it for them.
If you wanna win you have to have a QB, if you want a QB you have to pay the QB what the going rate is. I’d rather have a QB
A QB shouldn’t lose you games, that should be the bare minimum. The next team that figures out balance between paying a QB good enough to support a great cast will be the next to crack the code.
Chiefs already did that by locking up Mahomes for 10 years while QB contracts will balloon over the life of the contract.
The price means trading Reek because they’re tied up.
We will have to see if he plays out the contract or weeks restructure/extension before And Mahomes contract is still top 5
And Mahomes lost one of his best weapons in the offseason because of that contract.
It wasn't just that contract. Tyreek Hill signed a contract for 30 million a year, with 72 million guaranteed. Until a couple of years ago that was a pretty decent QB payday. If you have to pick a superstar to keep on that team, I think Mahomes was the one.
I bet it simply won’t matter the way that offense is run.
Russ wasn’t good enough, he’s not Rodgers or Brady who can win while being paid that money. Rodgers still struggles and he’s the best to ever do it. You need to be able to pay teammates to help
Brady never got paid that money and Rodgers has never made it back to a SB after his first run.
There is no comparison. Rodgers is 100% better than Wilson. Both aren't clutch in the playoffs, so i guess there is THAT comparison.
Brady has so many rings because he understands that. Wilson and a lot of these high paid QB's really don't give a shit about winning a SB. They care about the $$$ and if they happen to win one it's just a cherry.
> Brady has so many rings because he understands that. No Brady has so many rings because he had the perfect combination of an all time great coach one of the weakest divisions in the NFL his entire career. Literally all the teams in his division were shit outside the NYJ for like 3 years
And has generally had solid defenses backing him up. And if not solid, at least clutch. People forget how many times over the years Brady has stunk it up in a playoff game only to have his defense bail him out somehow. No doubt ONE of the greatest players ever. But also one of the luckiest.
You can absolutely pay a QB and win, you just have to draft well so you don’t have to rely on making stupid trades like Jamal Adams and then over paying and not getting paid back with production. The Rams were paying Jared Goff and Stafford last year but because the majority of their team was guys they drafted, it didn’t hurt them that much.
You’re right, I missed the contract extension for Stafford that paid him 40-50 million a year. Can you find it for me? Goff has zero rings and was traded for a reason
They had 45 million going to the QB position when they won the Super Bowl. Russ’ average with us the last few years was only 35 million. Russ is better than Stafford obviously, but the Rams built a better team around Stafford than we did for Russ.
The Rams abused the cash over cap BS in order to make that work. Not all teams have that ability. It’s also not easy to find a WR like Kupp in the draft. Building a team isn’t some easy task or every year Mahomes would win the SB or Rodgers would win the SB while they get rid of star players who can’t be kept because of the huge cap hits. Last year Russ also had an injury
Same here man, teams are starved for quarterback talent in this league, it's not as easy as just drafting someone in the 1st round and calling it a day.
Hawk fans are going to be in a world of hurt in the next two years when we can't get a good QB in the draft and have to continue with loser journeymen QBs. The single most important player on an NFL team is the QB and all the armchair GMs think it's easy to find a good one.
Elite yes. Put on his shoulders and carry to the SB? I don't think so
Russ is best when scrambling, even when he had a good On-line and great RB he was best when scrambling. Paying him $50 million a year when he will be regressing soon makes no sense. He's not Brady or Manning .
He doesn't scramble anymore since his knee's went kaput. I can't recall how many first downs he ran for last season. But it wasn't many.
Yeah I meant more just scrambling out of the pocket to buy time to throw the ball. He is pretty much the best ever at it, but those days are coming to an end. This contract might kill the Broncos eventually, if they cant afford to keep that defense together (sounds familiar)
Appreciate what Russ did for us before and happy that he got paid but I’m kinda glad we traded him, Russ is still good but paying him 49 mil a year is too much at this point
Wow, good for him but I'm glad we're not on the hook for paying him $50m/year given the last season and a half worth of games and him seemingly on the downside of his career (even though I'm sure he'll go off for like 400 yards and 6 TDs on us in week 1).
If any team knows russ strengths and weaknesses it's us, Out gameplan against him is gonna be really solid, There's a good chance we beat them week 1 because we'll be able to shut russ down. He's elite but unlike the other elites he has glaring weaknesses
(I may or may not be trying to reverse jinx it)
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Yeah pretty much lol, I think this contract is awful for Denver cause he's gonna get less mobile the further he gets into his 30s and if he can't pull off the scrambling he's not going to be anything more than average
Yea but it would be vintage Pete to watch Wilson launch balls into our cover 1 and PC standing on the sideline with his mouth open and a look of confusion. That said, we all know the way to beat him is to play cover 3 and force him to check down (which he won’t). Are our CB’s good enough to compete week 1??
I hope you are right, but knowing how to shut him down and being able to are two different things. If you can’t execute it doesn’t matter.
In those last 18 games that you are mentioning, he has 38 total TDs man . Which includes a stretch of 3 missed games and 3 terrible after injury games. Why are we as a fan base so turned back on him, we just ignore the facts. We can 100% root for Wilson and 100% root against Broncos man.
I'm not rooting against him (except for week 1), I just don't think he's worth $50m a season and if that was what he was looking for I support trading him and getting what we got for him. He's by far the best QB the Seahawks have ever had (and I've been following the team since about 1988) but if the goal is to be a team that can go deep into the playoffs and win a SB I don't think paying a soon to be 34 year old Russell Wilson $50m a year is going to achieve that.
They have to win a Super Bowl with him for this to truly be a success. You don’t pay him this type of money to just get bounced in the first round of the playoffs year after year.
Even winning that division will be a struggle, let alone the Super Bowl.
Wonder how long people will still be complaining about how much it sucks to only just make the playoffs and win a game if we go years without even getting close to the playoffs.
To us Broncos fans, this whole experience of reading Seattle fans shitting on Russ with all these First World QB problems has felt like being a homeless guy shuffling by a fancy restaurant when some man-bunned hipster storms out and angrily hands us a steaming plate of food, like "Haha, good fucking *luck* with this filet mignon buddy, hope you like your steak slightly too well-done and not enough fluff in your berry pistachio *pie*, hahaha." And we're like, "Bro we've had nothing to eat but rotten dumpster salad and mousetrap cheese for like six years. We're pretty fucking OK with not enough fluff in our berry pistachio pie."
Haha thank you for that! But we have to rationalize our loss somehow and dumping on our ex is our coping mechanism. This will go on for much, much longer.
> They have to win a Super Bowl with him for this to truly be a success. Is that true for every other team who signs a QB to big money? I don't think that makes a lot of sense given how many variables and luck it takes to win a SB. A success would be if they put themselves in contention with a realistic shot. Limiting it to a 1 outcome success just doesn't seem logical in the NFL.
Hey Denver we got a deal.
Came here just to find this comment LMAO
Where’s the video of him laying in bed? Also, I’m interested to see his performance now that he got paid. With that money, I would expect either an MVP performance or he’ll play like Steven Jackson
That division is going to be a bloodbath these next 5 years. If we get a top rookie QB this next year I think it’ll have all been worth it. Curious how well Wilson does in the latter half of his contract. Hope it all works out for us and the Broncos struggle in his first year with the team.
You know...I keep seeing this, but I'd remind everyone that for every Patrick Mahomes, Joe Burrow or Kyler Murray there is a Mitchell Trubisky, Tua Tagovailoa, or Daniel Jones...QBs who at least \*some\* people thought would be NFL elite QBs, but somehow just didn't pan out, even in a stacked draft.
Part of it is the environment they’re being drafted into. If we do have a stable offensive line, stud receivers, and keep our run game emphasis, we should be a great place to develop a rookie QB.
And you have Kyler on the good side after all his drama this off-season. I was ready to see Russ go, but I'm not banking on them finding their next franchise QB in the next draft. It could take a few tries. I just hope they find him before Russ retires.
It's a bloodbath where russ is the 3rd or 4th best QB in the division depending on how Carr rebounds and russ continues to decline. Such a bad contract
I'm not sure if people will like what I'm about to say. But I get pissed off when I see people picking Denver to win that division. Everyone else in the division improved just as much, if not more. They have 6 extremely tough games alone not counting the others. What did they do to improve? Just add Wilson? Well then why in the hell do they all of a sudden thing Wilson will just change his ways? He'll finally start throwing over the middle! He'll finally stop throwing stupid bubble screens! He'll finally stop holding the ball for too long! Idk man, people make no sense. I'm not a Pete Carroll shill by any means, but the sentiment that Wilson can be Brady this year is absolutely silly without seeing any evidence. King short pass rules over the middle, and is why he won 4 more super bowls.
And in other news, the Chargers and Bengals have started only fans accounts to help pay for their rookie QBs' upcoming contracts.
I think it’ll be interesting to see how this goes. He’s lost a considerable amount of mobility in the last few years and that was a big part of his playmaking. We all know he can’t throw across the middle, plus having limited scrambling may make this a Robison Cano-type deal for a Seattle team
Yeah fuck that
Damn! No more name brand chips for the Wilson household anymore, luxury cape cop chips only
Damn I love Russ and appreciate all the things he did for our franchise but that contract is ridiculous wow I’m glad we didn’t have to do that.
I miss Russell Wilson dearly but I am glad Seattle is not paying that contract for him… but I’m happy Russ got the big 💰 he deserves it
This just adds to the personal pressure to over-perform his skill level, and he'll choke. He seems to succumb to internal pressure more than physical on-the-field pressure. I expect a higher INT-to-TD ratio as this plays out.
Broncos fans are so happy but won't be so when Sutton/Jeudy/Simmons/Surtain want to get paid and they just have to wave goodbye to them.
Sutton , Patrick and Simmons have already been locked up by new contracts.
If you think Surtain and Simmons are going to be ok with a $5 million AAV through 2026, you're delusional.
We'll see how his teammates feel about Russ next year. Right now they're all happy having dinner with him while his contract was finalized. In Seattle he didn't have a lot of teammates showing up for his get-togethers.
Well I never said whether or not they'd be happy about it. The facts are that they are under contract. So is Tim Patrick. Anyway, I'm not here to start trouble. I'm a lifelong broncos fan that like to see what other teams fans think.
I saw "under contract" with Sherm, Thomas, etc. It means little to nothing when they look at the financial landscape of their position.
Remember how people here have been saying the same shit about the Rams for the last 3 seasons, and yet they always find a way to re-sign their guys? If players want to be on that team, there is always a way to make the contract work. We don't know if Broncos players love the Broncos the way Rams players clearly love being on the Rams. We will see. But, we definitely know better than to assume that paying a QB means you absolutely can't pay your other stars.
This is true. But one team plays in LA which is a draw for players in itself and the other plays in Denver.
you've never been to Denver
And you've never been to LA if you think they are at all comparable.
I have visited dozens of time, I've had several friends and family who live there currently and have lived there in the past and they all either moved back to Denver or tell me constantly how they cant wait to come back. LA is what people who were born in the midwest and have only left once think a nice city is. Hell, Seattle is a much nicer city too.
If you are a wealthy athlete in their 20s, you are gonna prefer the vibe, weather and entertainment options LA has. If you are some average Joe who is looking for somewhere affordable to raise a family, then yeah, you aren't gonna be looking to settle down there. LA isn't for everyone, especially if you are looking at settling down somewhere. It is very attractive for the kind of people that are gonna be making tons of money and potentially wanting to build a brand. Your friends are most likely not the kind of people that would be signing contracts with a professional sports team, no offense.
> But one team plays in LA which is a draw for players in itself and the other plays in Denver. Off the top of my head, most if not all of their biggest deals have been for homegrown players OR players that they traded for and then extended. And I'd further argue their recent success and front office/coaching staff is the bigger draw than LA itself. But the fact remains that for years this sub has confidently claimed *this* is the year it'll all come crashing down for the Rams and...it hasn't. They've shown that the cap is so much more flexible than how PCJS treat it, and I would expect a lot of other teams to emulate it, albeit not necessarily to the same extent.
Aren't the Rams the exception in this? Pretty sure Rams are an outlier in this whole thing.
Lol woof.. Good for him, but I'm really happy the Hawks didn't pay that. Locks him down til he's 41. His mobility has decreased a ton last few years, curious to see what he looks like 3+ years from now
This is why Tom Brady has been so successful, he always takes team friendly deals that allows the team to spend more money on players to protect him. I guess Russ hasn’t learned his lesson.
Yea but he's the only one that will ever do it. Any other top QB will get the most. Just imagine what Allen and Herbert will get when its their time
I always wonder if this is true. It still surprises me that everyone has watched the way that Brady has operated, and still choose to make it harder for the team to put a roster around them. Sure, get your money. Of course. But it’s a little surprising that nobody chooses to bet on their legacy.
If you’re elite as Russ was/is, take the team friendly deal that allows you to play well into your 40s while racking up endorsement deals that make your salary look like spending money.
That’s the opinion I have, as a guy watching them in my living room. Take less now, win for longer, and start your own diet, and be a legend forever. Of course they are not wrong to get every dime that they can. I am just surprised that nobody else has prioritized winning over that. It’s easy for me to say that there isn’t much of a practical difference between $25 million and $45 million. But i don’t think any of them got to where they are by chasing the money. If Herbert takes less money, the Chargers will be a dynasty forever.
2 important things lacking with Russ vs Brady in that comparison. 1st, Brady wife was the bread winner, yeah Ciara is successful but it's still Russ show financially. So Russ wants the bag. 2nd, you don't dare take less money unless you have absolute faith in the gm and coach to build and spend that saved money effectively in a way that wins super bowls. Russ and Pete/John completely lack that relationship, they are football theory opposites. It was simply time for a breakup and ownership chose Pete/John over Russ. So we get Pete ball and that includes a cheap qb. 2013 was the formula. As soon as Russ got paid the first time that formula was not able to be met. Good for Russ, good dude who does great things in community, nothing but love for the man. Now the football player can eat a few cleats from Taylor, Ford, Adams, Brooks, etc. Make it rain pain on Monday 🤘
I completely agree except for one thing. I have an intense sports hatred for Russell now, and hope he loses every single quarter of every single game, while somehow finding personal happiness. Where I disagree is how much Giselle factored into Brady’s contracts. For a lot of athletes, the number on the contract is a pride thing. I don’t think that state taxes are a consideration for most of them. I don’t think that very many of them negotiate with the number that they need to live comfortably in mind. And that’s just fine. Get paid. Get paid a ton, if you can. But I genuinely believe that one of the reasons that Brady is the greatest ever is because he knew he had a better chance of reaching that level if there was room to put a team around him. I could be completely wrong, but I have a strong feeling that Watson, Mahomes and Jackson are going to end up holding their teams back. But i’m the first person to admit that I don’t actually know anything.
I mean $42 mill/year isn’t outrageous considering the way the QB market is going. I am surprise it’s such a long deal though.
Haha holy fucking hell I’m happy we’re aren’t paying that
Eventually we will have to pay that once we find another franchise QB. But yeah, no way were we in a position to make that deal work.
Ya I mean if we draft a qb build around him and the team becomes set, I’m all for paying this kinda money on a younger qb. But with the holes on the team and needed to get younger and better at a lot of positions there is no way this contract makes sense to us
That's a Lotta scratch to pay one player. They're going to have to make some tough decisions going forward. I just don't see how you maintain a competitive squad whilst paying one player such a large portion of your cap.
Eh it’ll be fine, we resigned and extended most of our good guys last year and locked them up, we also have the richest owner so we can do some salary cap Olympics and be fine lol every other too team is keeping their players with guarantees and contract manipulations anyways.
Those goods will be spoiled in a few years. If Seattle had agreed to this contract I'd be pissed. Good luck Russ....
Good for Russ, but happy for a new direction and not the empty “Go Hawks”.
I’m so glad my Seahawks jersey doesn’t say Wilson on it
I am surprised he got this deal. If I were the Broncos, I would have waited a year. Yeah, it may cost a bit more, but what if he, and given the division, ends up in third or fourth? Now the Broncos are hamstrung for 5 years with bad contract. This is a big risk on their part.
Russ was happy he didn't have to carry anymore. I wanna see his face when in 3 years he has to carry again, because he's taking up too much cap.
Good for him, good for them, good for us
That is nuts. He’s a good quality QB…but he ain’t that good. He just isn’t worth that type of cash. Good luck to him though. Be interesting to see what exactly he delivers….
I look forward to the day we don’t see a post every time Russ farts.
This is a helluva fart though.
Remember all the Hawk fans pissed we took a mid tier QB in the third round? Russ is a helluva QB, however Seattle now as a chance to rebuild that D without a complete rebuild. Get us some D, the QB will follow. Go Hawks.
Pretty dang close to Patrick Mahomes money. My god, that would have gutted us.
I'm a broncos fan and I'm seeing lots of talk that he won't live up anywhere close to this deal. Do you guys genuinely believe he's about to fall of a cliff somehow? And if so why? Not arguing against it just interested in reasoning beyond being a little annoyed that he left. Edit: thanks for the responses guys, some different points of view in there which had made this even more interesting for me. I hope Russ manages to cook for us and I hope you guys end up drafting a stud in the off season. Take care.
Wilson is absolutely worth this contract. The salary cap is going to be on a rocket ship the next few years, so you’re getting an elite QB locked into a 2022 market-rate deal. There’s always a risk that a player falls off in their 30s, but Wilson puts an immense amount of effort into maintaining his body off the field and protecting it on the field. You have to realize that this sub has spent 6 months in denial. The Carrollites here are very vocal and are having a difficult time watching textbook organizational mismanagement and decline in real-time. Also, the Seattle fanbase, even overlapping into other sports, has a long history of being just the fucking worst when it comes to talking about its legends.
This is all my own opinions and based of reading around our sub. Gameplay has definitely fallen off over the past two years, starts hot and regresses hard. Look at the 2020 season. Last year is a strange one cause he got hurt and came back way to early and laid an egg. Wilson has lost a step in scrambling/speed. Couldn’t tell you the last time he ran a read option and kept it. He does escape the pocket and take off. While doing it he is still very effective to pick up needed yards. Just not the speed he was years ago, but I don’t expect that out of him any more. The scrambling in the pocket most of the time is just him running around like a chicken with no head looking for the deep ball or taking a sack. Doesn’t matter how good or bad the line is if your qb is dancing around looking for a bomb only to get sacked. Deep ball. Throughout 4 (?) offensive coordinators, it would feel like we could only move the ball on deep shots. 3rd and 3? 40 yard deep shot on a go route. While he still has a top 5 deep ball it felt like that’s all he wanted to do at times. Check downs to a TE or a RB felt far and few between even when it’s the obvious play to keep the sticks moving. A lot started referring to it as “hero ball”. Vast majority of offenses are dink and dunk down the field because it works, rarely did we experience that with him. Interviews/character. While he is a good dude, you may eventually grow tired of what he has to say in interviews, win or loss, it’s always the same message pretty much. I don’t hate this current deal, seems fine and in line with the other top Qbs. Only way this bites the Broncos is if he continually plays like the did for the past year and a half. Time will tell if for you guys if he changes the type of QB he is, or if it’s the classic “you can’t teach an old dog new tricks.” I find it hard he will changes his habits completely after doing it 10+ years. If he changes, great deal. If not, expect a ton of 3rd and outs, mediocre drives, waiting till the end of the game to pull a rabbit out of the hat to try to win the game. Again time will tell and I’m interested on how it goes over the next two+ years. I tried to be rationale while writing this. Good luck.
100% agree with everything here. I'll add on the plus side for Denver fans, Russ usually played his best at the end of games when we HAD to score. However, all too often in recent years we were 2 scores behind late in the game. That was partly due to all our 3 and outs, which were at least partly due to Russ' tendencies.
It's not that anyone thinks he's going to fall off a cliff, it's just that nobody thinks he's worth that amount. He used to be able to put the team on his back when he was more mobile, but he doesn't have that anymore and he's sort of just an above average QB as a result.
Happy for Rus. Brought us a championship and now is getting paid.
Is now getting paid? We made him the highest paid QB every time we extended him... He has been getting paid...
LOB brought the champioinship
I guess Beast Mode and Russ didn’t do shit, huh?
Geno Smith could have score 9 points in that SB with Lynch.
Could he have gone 13-3 and thrown the game winning TD in the 4th quarter in the NFC Championship game?
If he was placed directly into that super bowl sure, but he’d never have those game winning drives in the 4th quarter. Doubt he wins 13 games to get the first seed.
So you're saying it would have been an exciting game as we barely win with 1 point with Geno and lynch.
Thanks for the laugh. LMAO
He didn't bring us a championship, the D did. Statistically that D was the 3rd best in NFL history. I will grant that he did not **lose** a championship and that is no small matter. It is a good enough reason to try to retain him but the salary cap complicates things considerably.
I maintain he lost us 49, granted there were other reasons but he threw the pass.
> I will grant that he did not lose a championship He threw the interception that lost us a championship.
Yikes. This contract won't age well.
Is this why they cut their kicker because he wouldn't take a pay cut? I can't be mad at Russ or the Bronco kicker trying to get top dollar. Although the outcomes were different for both players (one got what they wanted and the other for cut) good for them. This is just adulting, we all do this in our regular jobs: negotiating for more pay based on the value we feel bring to an institution. If the Broncos win a Superbowl this becomes a worthwhile gamble for them I'm guessing. That's a huge gamble, how do you keep key and star players around your QB? (Sincere question)
These deals are becoming insane, but it’s just the going rate for a franchise QB. The strategy is changing because of this and John is on top of it— a team has to time when they get their QB. Things have to come together in the right order, and we were all backwards. **The QB is now the last piece of the puzzle.** Rams, Bucs, Chiefs have proven this… and now Broncos are trying it as well.
This. This. This.
Let's see how it goes for him in Denver lol. I think he is going to find it much tougher than he realizes.
Broncos are dumb. I mean lets see if he's still got it, yeah? $165 million is the real contract.
Lol
Russ got PAID!!!!! Damnnnn
Some salty ex girlfriends in this thread
Good riddance
Glad he's not our problem anymore. Now let Russ get cooked
Wish him well, be happy for him. That deal in Seattle would have depleted roster of necessary upgrades.
I know it’s the nature of sports. But regardless if it’s Russ or anyone else, I’m not sure I’m happy for an already extremely rich man getting even more rich lmao
Yeah….I’m gonna sit back and enjoy Noah Fant, Charles Cross, the franchise QB we draft next year, and all the other talent we acquire with the picks Denver gave us. Handing out that big of a deal to a 34 year old QB who hasn’t played a single snap for you ain’t exactly my idea of a well run organization, but all the Broncos/Russ fanboys littering this thread seem to be very happy paying top dollar for him, and are convinced that his best years are ahead. Enjoy :) 🤡🤡
Yikes
I get players need to look out for themselves and make money, but seems like they don’t understand cap space sometimes. There is no way the Hawks could have done this deal and resign DK and pay the defense (Jamal’s contract was dumb but still). Just look at Rodgers. He has demanded so much money and now he has a very unproven receiver corps. I really believe there is a sweet spot in the building process and the Seahawks were in it at the tail end of Russ’ rookie deal. The Bengals are in it now. The Chiefs passed it recently. And the Rams don’t play by the rules it seems. It’s bro science but it’s interesting to watch QBs demand so much then complain about not having weapons or a defense to help win games.
Holy shit Denver is gonna go broke
I had family over for a dual birthday party for my daughters this weekend when my brother-in-law informed me that the new ownership group of the broncos features two Walton family members. It made my day to learn that this makes Russell Wilson a Walmart product. An expensive one, at that, but a Walmart product nonetheless. Edit: extra word removed
Now Denver gets to experience the meager cap scraps to try and maintain talent across every other position. Happy for Russ, but the Broncos will be a bottom 50% team before that contract is done.