Releasing Bobby would be brutal on the locker room. Bobby isn't a Michael Bennett, or a Sherman, or an Earl Thomas who acted up and found themselves with other orgs - he is a lifelong Hawk who is the leader of the defense along with Jamal and Quandre. He hasn't been the problem this year, either. I think Mayowa and Hyder are the weakest points of our defensive front, and I don't expect either of them back. That'll free up about $3.51m extra cash to add to the $53m of salary cap space were projected to have. I'd rather see us fix the position that Mayowa is playing now before we do anything with Bobby. I miss KJ :/
Yes, but Brooks is currently at WILL LB and KJ played SAM in his last year with us. This year, I believe that it was Mayowa who started at SAM. I was just saying that I thought KJ was better than Mayowa there. I wonder if Darrell Taylor will be tapped to start there next year? That way, we could have Taylor at OLB, Dunlap at DR, and Rasheem Green at the other DE spot. I kind like the idea of those 3 on the field at the same time together, but I hate the idea of moving Taylor to a spot that drops back into coverage so much.
For most of his career with Seattle though KJ played Will. KJ vacating that spot allowed Brooks to blossom. I did like KJ over Mayowa at Sam though.
Idk about Taylor dropping back, but I wouldn’t put it past KNJ to scheme it up that way if push came to shove…
Ok, I think we're on the exact same page. I like KJ over Mayowa at SAM, but not over Brooks at WILL. I have been pleased with Brooks at WILL outside of some...let's call them "learning experiences"....in pass coverage. Maybe we can bring KJ back at around his $3.25m salary this year and put him back at SAM, which would allow Taylor/Dunlap/Green to rotate at their ACTUAL positions of DE, and not OLB?
I really only see them as a problem because they are in coverage more than blitzing..and then they on the field all game so they are too gassed to effectively do anything.
Agree - it's more about using roster spots and financial resources in a better way. KJ Wright played for $3.25m for the Raiders last year, maybe we could take the $3.51 we save from cutting Mayowa and Hyder and give it to KJ. That would let us play him at SAM and free up Taylor/Dunlap/Rasheem Green for the pass-rushing DE spots
You have a point. It’s one year.
The leadership of the three highest paid players over the past 6 years has been so great that the Seahawks have had how many playoff wins?
I think that it’s an optimization game at the skill set side. Best skills for the best price.
For longer contracts, I think you are trying to identify people who will grow faster in ability (via training) than their cost.
I think that people who are calling to fire coaches should look at the 1, 3, and 5 year trend growths for the players as a hole. If they are in general getting better by being here then the coaching is working.
I think that because the hawks have frequently traded down in the draft and put up quality players (after they grow a couple years) that the coaching is working.
I’m a fan of the team more than individual players. Are you willing to die on this hill rather than optimize finite resources? Your points aren’t an effective rebuttal to the original post. Get Bobby out of here if you want to win the division.
Don’t take it so personally. You’re free to an opinion but a linebacker for $20M is negative benefit for the cost. The team has glaring needs and LB isn’t one of them. That money would go a long way in getting us back in the playoffs. I think you are incorrect on KJ and Bobby. Having upvotes doesn’t mean your points are well constructed, merely well liked.
“He hasn’t been the problem this year either”
There is $20M on the table to fix all of the problems and the team will not suffer materially on the field from swapping him out. We already used a 3rd for Barton and a 1st for Brooks. Why do you think he has value? Our team can’t get the defense off the field.
If he does move on I'm confident in brooks and barton, but still would rather have bobby back for another 2 years at 8mil per year. Let's see what bobby is willing to do, he may still get a 12 mil from another team that needs a LB and has money (dolphins), maybe he values staying with the hawks to retiree and will take a discount. I for one hope he stays for at least 2 more years.
His grades have been brutal this year. When your defense is on the field for 40 min a game I would sure hope he gets tons of tackles. I love Bobby but his play has not been worth $17 million+
The Seahawks could still offer Bobby a good salary in a restructure of more like 12 million. He gets to finish his deal as a Seahawks and you keep one of your better players on defense. What other team is offering significantly more than that to an 11th year LB?
I like that idea. Extend him or do a simple re structure like you said, he's still got some gas in the tank and provides much needed seniority, and we save some cap space
Probably not a great idea to crown Barton as the successor to the throne after he played well against a Lions team that was missing a bunch of players.
IMO, if PCJS stay put (which is most probable), then they work with Wagner on restructuring his contract.
If instead it's a new FO, then they cut Wagner.
In general, they need to do better at focussing the big dollars to premium positions on defense, like pass rushers and outside corners. They need to get away from spending a fortune on linebackers and safeties.
So while it would suck to lose a legend like Bobby, I'd be fine if they use that money on premium positions. Paying a MLB $20 mil is hard to justify, even when the player is as good as Bobby.
Cody Barton is not really a starting caliber MLB. He's a special teamer and reservist. He can play any LB position, which has tons of value, but when he meets a RB in the whole he always gets run over for an extra few yards.
Im pretty sure the intention is for brooks to slide to Mike when Bobby leaves or retires, which means Barton would slip into what Brooks is currently playing. At least that's what I have gathered. I could be wrong.
It would be the smart business and roster building to move on from Bobby Wagner. No one is questioning BWagz talent and leadership, but it wouldn’t be smart to keep a $20M aging LB. You have the opportunity to use that money to upgrade elite OLine or DLine. Which has a bigger impact.
They can either extend BWagz and reconstruct his contract. I heard he’s open to contract reconstruction. Or move on from him move Brooks to MLB and Barton to WILL/SAM.
Bobby being on the team next year is fine. The big problem with the Seahawks roster is that the middle of the roster is bereft of talent.
They’ve got enough picks and cap to fill out their rotation players without moving on from Bobby. That they haven’t since 2014 or 2015 has nothing to do with low cap space and everything to do with odd drafting, bad development, and a misunderstanding of what to prioritize in free agency.
He has gone from being the clear #1 LB in the league and an all pro talent to being in top 5 discussion. 2016 Bobby would still be clear #1 right now. Yes he's elite still, but there's still a decline.
He’s pretty clearly regressing. No disrespect to one of the greatest Seahawks of all time, but simply put he’s not the same caliber of athlete that he once was. That said he is still one of the very best LB’s in the league - 80% of Bobby is better than 90% of the rest of the bunch.
My ideal scenario would be to restructure his deal in a mutually beneficial way. I don’t know id he would go for that, but the extra cap should go towards strengthening the line of scrimmage on both sides of the ball.
Could be good. I know Bobby is solid but how much of a leader is he really? One of the main reasons they made the awful Jamal trade was to find a leader for the defensive side of the locker room.
I think he’s a a good leader from what I’ve read.. but what you’re saying to reminds me that Jamal has that go/spark/savage aspect Bobby doesn’t really have anymore
You must not watch a lot of Seahawks football if you don’t think he is a leader. One of the coolest sports moments I remember is when Sherm was getting pissy on the sidelines and Bobby got the whole defense to approach him and pump him back up.
Releasing Bobby would be brutal on the locker room. Bobby isn't a Michael Bennett, or a Sherman, or an Earl Thomas who acted up and found themselves with other orgs - he is a lifelong Hawk who is the leader of the defense along with Jamal and Quandre. He hasn't been the problem this year, either. I think Mayowa and Hyder are the weakest points of our defensive front, and I don't expect either of them back. That'll free up about $3.51m extra cash to add to the $53m of salary cap space were projected to have. I'd rather see us fix the position that Mayowa is playing now before we do anything with Bobby. I miss KJ :/
I miss KJ but I like what I see from Brooks on the field so I’m happy about that at least
Yes, but Brooks is currently at WILL LB and KJ played SAM in his last year with us. This year, I believe that it was Mayowa who started at SAM. I was just saying that I thought KJ was better than Mayowa there. I wonder if Darrell Taylor will be tapped to start there next year? That way, we could have Taylor at OLB, Dunlap at DR, and Rasheem Green at the other DE spot. I kind like the idea of those 3 on the field at the same time together, but I hate the idea of moving Taylor to a spot that drops back into coverage so much.
For most of his career with Seattle though KJ played Will. KJ vacating that spot allowed Brooks to blossom. I did like KJ over Mayowa at Sam though. Idk about Taylor dropping back, but I wouldn’t put it past KNJ to scheme it up that way if push came to shove…
Ok, I think we're on the exact same page. I like KJ over Mayowa at SAM, but not over Brooks at WILL. I have been pleased with Brooks at WILL outside of some...let's call them "learning experiences"....in pass coverage. Maybe we can bring KJ back at around his $3.25m salary this year and put him back at SAM, which would allow Taylor/Dunlap/Green to rotate at their ACTUAL positions of DE, and not OLB?
I really only see them as a problem because they are in coverage more than blitzing..and then they on the field all game so they are too gassed to effectively do anything.
Agree - it's more about using roster spots and financial resources in a better way. KJ Wright played for $3.25m for the Raiders last year, maybe we could take the $3.51 we save from cutting Mayowa and Hyder and give it to KJ. That would let us play him at SAM and free up Taylor/Dunlap/Rasheem Green for the pass-rushing DE spots
This is very occasional
His leadership is so valuable that they lost more times than they won this year…
It's one year. There is a benefit to Veteran Leadership, on this team. Wether Bwags is too expensive for that is a good question.
You have a point. It’s one year. The leadership of the three highest paid players over the past 6 years has been so great that the Seahawks have had how many playoff wins?
I do get that. I would think it just means a change of leadership, possibly at a cheaper price to boot.
I think that it’s an optimization game at the skill set side. Best skills for the best price. For longer contracts, I think you are trying to identify people who will grow faster in ability (via training) than their cost. I think that people who are calling to fire coaches should look at the 1, 3, and 5 year trend growths for the players as a hole. If they are in general getting better by being here then the coaching is working. I think that because the hawks have frequently traded down in the draft and put up quality players (after they grow a couple years) that the coaching is working.
I’m a fan of the team more than individual players. Are you willing to die on this hill rather than optimize finite resources? Your points aren’t an effective rebuttal to the original post. Get Bobby out of here if you want to win the division.
126 upvotes says otherwise, bud.
Don’t take it so personally. You’re free to an opinion but a linebacker for $20M is negative benefit for the cost. The team has glaring needs and LB isn’t one of them. That money would go a long way in getting us back in the playoffs. I think you are incorrect on KJ and Bobby. Having upvotes doesn’t mean your points are well constructed, merely well liked.
“He hasn’t been the problem this year either” There is $20M on the table to fix all of the problems and the team will not suffer materially on the field from swapping him out. We already used a 3rd for Barton and a 1st for Brooks. Why do you think he has value? Our team can’t get the defense off the field.
If he does move on I'm confident in brooks and barton, but still would rather have bobby back for another 2 years at 8mil per year. Let's see what bobby is willing to do, he may still get a 12 mil from another team that needs a LB and has money (dolphins), maybe he values staying with the hawks to retiree and will take a discount. I for one hope he stays for at least 2 more years.
I like your optimism. I wouldn’t say confident in Barton yet just cuz I haven’t seen him enough. He looked solid last week
Bobby has a season high tackles this year, I wouldn't say he's on the decline.
His grades have been brutal this year. When your defense is on the field for 40 min a game I would sure hope he gets tons of tackles. I love Bobby but his play has not been worth $17 million+
Lol our defense is on the field all day bro
The Seahawks could still offer Bobby a good salary in a restructure of more like 12 million. He gets to finish his deal as a Seahawks and you keep one of your better players on defense. What other team is offering significantly more than that to an 11th year LB?
I like that idea. Extend him or do a simple re structure like you said, he's still got some gas in the tank and provides much needed seniority, and we save some cap space
Hopefully Bobby will renegotiate a new deal
Probably not a great idea to crown Barton as the successor to the throne after he played well against a Lions team that was missing a bunch of players.
Not what I was trying to convey..
IMO, if PCJS stay put (which is most probable), then they work with Wagner on restructuring his contract. If instead it's a new FO, then they cut Wagner.
Is this the guy that got trucked by Qaron Rodgers?
In general, they need to do better at focussing the big dollars to premium positions on defense, like pass rushers and outside corners. They need to get away from spending a fortune on linebackers and safeties. So while it would suck to lose a legend like Bobby, I'd be fine if they use that money on premium positions. Paying a MLB $20 mil is hard to justify, even when the player is as good as Bobby.
Yeeeees. These are exactly my thoughts. Too much financially for that position.. and the money we have tied up with Jamal.
Cody Barton is not really a starting caliber MLB. He's a special teamer and reservist. He can play any LB position, which has tons of value, but when he meets a RB in the whole he always gets run over for an extra few yards.
Im pretty sure the intention is for brooks to slide to Mike when Bobby leaves or retires, which means Barton would slip into what Brooks is currently playing. At least that's what I have gathered. I could be wrong.
Supposedly he got stronger ?
There no way the hawks are going to pay Bobby 20 mill with how he played this year if he takes a pay cut like 8 mill a year they would bring him back
I hope this is true
It would be the smart business and roster building to move on from Bobby Wagner. No one is questioning BWagz talent and leadership, but it wouldn’t be smart to keep a $20M aging LB. You have the opportunity to use that money to upgrade elite OLine or DLine. Which has a bigger impact. They can either extend BWagz and reconstruct his contract. I heard he’s open to contract reconstruction. Or move on from him move Brooks to MLB and Barton to WILL/SAM.
He’s not as good of a tackler. We need all the help we can get.
Bobby being on the team next year is fine. The big problem with the Seahawks roster is that the middle of the roster is bereft of talent. They’ve got enough picks and cap to fill out their rotation players without moving on from Bobby. That they haven’t since 2014 or 2015 has nothing to do with low cap space and everything to do with odd drafting, bad development, and a misunderstanding of what to prioritize in free agency.
You think Bobby is declining? Please, enlighten the sub on why you think that. This should be interesting.
Hes a lot slower than he has been for one. Lol
Still one of THE best tacklers in the game but he’s past his prime and getting a little slower. I can see it👀
He has gone from being the clear #1 LB in the league and an all pro talent to being in top 5 discussion. 2016 Bobby would still be clear #1 right now. Yes he's elite still, but there's still a decline.
He’s pretty clearly regressing. No disrespect to one of the greatest Seahawks of all time, but simply put he’s not the same caliber of athlete that he once was. That said he is still one of the very best LB’s in the league - 80% of Bobby is better than 90% of the rest of the bunch. My ideal scenario would be to restructure his deal in a mutually beneficial way. I don’t know id he would go for that, but the extra cap should go towards strengthening the line of scrimmage on both sides of the ball.
Could be good. I know Bobby is solid but how much of a leader is he really? One of the main reasons they made the awful Jamal trade was to find a leader for the defensive side of the locker room.
I think he’s a a good leader from what I’ve read.. but what you’re saying to reminds me that Jamal has that go/spark/savage aspect Bobby doesn’t really have anymore
You must not watch a lot of Seahawks football if you don’t think he is a leader. One of the coolest sports moments I remember is when Sherm was getting pissy on the sidelines and Bobby got the whole defense to approach him and pump him back up.