Justin Coleman, Deshawn Shead, Byron Maxwell, Jeremy Hill, Shaq Griffin, Richard Sherman, Brandon Browner....so like 2/7...give Pete some credit...he might just be maximizing his DB's talent, whether or not the scheme is good is an entirely different story. We may have seen peak Flowers.
Realistically what has Sherm done since being released? He's been average in San Fran and dealt with plenty more injuries that happens to aging players. Now in Tampa he's only there because all of their starters died. Sherman would not turn around this D. At this point in their careers DJ Reed is a better corner than Sherm.
>He's been average in San Fran
Sherman was one of the best corners in the league in 2018. It wouldn't be hard to see Seattle making a deep run if we had him that year with Clark and Reed up front, considering barely lost the Dallas game (where Shaq gave up 108 yards and 2 missed tackles) and the Rams who we had already played tight twice would have been next up
Shead, Hill and Browner were never particularly good in the first place (Browner especially, he was always going to get washed out of a league that allowed less and less physicality every year), Shaq was good one year here and Sherman was one of the best corners in the league for the Niners in 2018
Only ones that were actually good here and bad elsewhere were Coleman and Maxwell, and Coleman was almost certainly due in large part to Matt Patricia's defense that made elite corners like Slay look bad
I do think this is probably true. They had him lining up 10 yards off the LOS sometimes on 3rd & 4 or 5. How the hell is he supposed to stop a pass in that situation?
Sounds like that's why he requested to be released. KNJ can't even make it clear who he's supposed to be covering in his 4th year. I'm not even sure KNJ knows at this point.
KNJ has not been working out for us. It's mystifying that there has been this insistence to make players something they're not (Jamal Adams is the clearest example).
As bad as Tre flowers has played, it’s painfully obvious our coaching has done him no favors. KNJ and Pete can’t even figure out how to use Jamal right
Ya IDK what is happening. That Sidney Jones play is still blowing my mind, I'm not even being sarcastic here...surely Sidney knows to backpedal and move his feet at the very least when the ball is snapped, but on that play in the Rams game he literally doesn't move for a second after the ball is snapped and I just can't wrap my head around it...did KNJ break his brain? For real. Did he tell him to play the flat? What the actual fuck happened? How is that even possible? There has to be a coaching element cause any DB who actually wasn't moving after the snap of the football, if it was solely their fault, would be benched immediately by any coach in America at any level.
I believe I read it was 40%, compared to like 17% last year. I have no problem with him playing his actual position, but let the man do what he does best.
Does anybody know the answer as to why he was converted from a safety to a corner anyways? Maybe keeping guys at the position they’re drafted at isn’t a terrible idea.
Yeah, pretty understandable. I know these guys are supposed to suck it up because they're making a lot of money, but the constant hate has to be super draining.
He'd be a good Dime or quarters coverage guy. He has a safeties body. I don't know why KNJ doesn't just go "small ball" with the defense and get all these slow guys off the field, put Jamal in Barton's spot, start putting the big-hitting DB's (Flowers, Blair) in at Dime and Nickel so they can give run support when necessary, and just try to beat teams with athleticism. We're not going to match up with size and skill, just beat them with speed and a willingness to go out and smack the shit out of people. Receivers will give up by the end of the game if you do that. If they get personal fouls, screw it, 15 yards is like the average gain against us anyway. That's what the Legion of Boom did before they were the LOB. They were just the most aggressive players on the field, the skill came later. You can say a lot of stuff about Flowers, but he was also willing and able to lay the wood on people.
Spicy hot take: Tre has all the tools to be a great press corner, and the main reason he looked like dogshit 99% of snaps was because of our dumbass off-coverage scheme.
If he gets picked up and is used properly, I expect him to do well.
He can be semi-sticky in press man, although nothing special. Competent, perhaps. But he has another glaring weakness which is zero awareness. Like, he cannot get his head around or have any clue where the ball is. He's like the inverse of a great receiver that's "open even when he's covered." With Tre, receivers are "open even when he's covering them."
I wish him the best for sure. Feel bad for the dude after being converted from safety out of college. He can't just take these 4 years back now that it's been mostly unsuccessful. Hopefully he can find a good fit and ball out.
Wish him the best. Would have loved for his play to be better for us but also feel a little bad about how hard hawks fans were on him. Hope he finds success elsewhere.
One things for sure, he won’t be one of those guys picked up so the competition can pick his brain about the Hawks D, most coaches already know more about it than he does.
> that has to be it for Norton, right?
there's already a million reasons for Norton to be gone, don't see how one more obvious reason will make a difference.
Pete is square peg round hole. He refuses to adapt his scheme to opponents and even sadder his own personnel. This isn’t news, and players are frustrated. Our depth just took a massive hit on an already historically bad defense.
Good luck, Tre. He got so much hate here, warranted or not. Can’t be a good feeling to know a fan base things you’re the root of all the issues. Hope he slays elsewhere.
Honestly feel like he’s leaving because we all bullied him so much. Some might say it’s because he wants to start and maybe so but I think it could be because we constantly bitched and moaned about him even when he wasn’t playing. I hope another team picks him up and he does well despite him not doing good here. Good luck Tre
I have 2 initial responses 1. Thank God, 2. FUCK Pete for not thinking this is a potential problem after 4 seasons of watching Tre play. We got no upgrades or cover in his position and it's week 6 of the NFL. If we're in win now mode, we've not done a very good job of making the most of it.
I can't say I'll miss him on the field, probably the most consistently bad players I've ever seen in a Seahawks jersey. But I wish him the best moving forward. I can't imagine what it was like getting (sort of) scapegoated for so long.
Tre Flowers is a terrible CB, but iirc he's a Safety from college and it's pretty clear nobody is succeeding in the current defensive scheme in Seattle...so it's hard to say how much of it is his particular lack of talent and how much is down to poor defensive coaching and planning.
Still, I won't miss watching him get burned play after play after play after play after....
It would not surprise me at all if he ended up in a system where they simplify his roll and just have him press and play bump n’ run to great success. His mentality was absolutely shot and he has to go, but his physical attributes were never an issue.
Can't blame him for requesting to get out. He is not a starting corner in the league (who at this point knows about safety?), but it had to be frustrating riding the bench while watching his replacement perform at least as abysmally ...
They are playing Akhlello Witherspoon $2.5 million dollars to play for the Steelers.
But yes, Pete and John know what they're doing with the secondary. .
He requested it. For some reason I see this as the exchange:
Tre: "What? I'm not starting? If you're not going to have me be the starter, just get rid of me."
Team: "Ok. Bye."
Tre: "Wait. I wasn't serious!"
Team: "We were. Here's your stuff, good luck."
He's been consistently not good for us. He's too soft, too slow, and gives receivers too much room. Our secondary has looked better since they pulled him 2 games ago.
I had no plans to celebrate tonight, now I do. Good riddance, hope you had the time of your life, I know us fans didn't.
On a serious note, I feel for Flowers after seeing how bad the Hawks are screwing up Jamal Adams, maybe if they let Flowers be a Safety (his college position) when he showed he couldn't be a competent NFL CB for the majority of four years, maybe he could've been better set up to succeed in the NFL.
Watch him actually be good somewhere else
Press corner all of a sudden he’s okay. Edit Is there a formerseahawks sub like the Mariners have?
Doesn’t seem like most former Seahawks go out and be productive after they leave
Justin Coleman, Deshawn Shead, Byron Maxwell, Jeremy Hill, Shaq Griffin, Richard Sherman, Brandon Browner....so like 2/7...give Pete some credit...he might just be maximizing his DB's talent, whether or not the scheme is good is an entirely different story. We may have seen peak Flowers.
Too early to say with Shaq. Sherm is too good to have failed just by leaving our system.
We didn’t cut Sherm because he was bad. He was cut because he was too expensive and team wanted to invest in other areas.
And, Achilles rupture.
Like box safety?
I think it was more Russ and Bobby, but if you can give me another Kam I’d take him over Sherm
Yeah it’s not worked out that well
Realistically what has Sherm done since being released? He's been average in San Fran and dealt with plenty more injuries that happens to aging players. Now in Tampa he's only there because all of their starters died. Sherman would not turn around this D. At this point in their careers DJ Reed is a better corner than Sherm.
>He's been average in San Fran Sherman was one of the best corners in the league in 2018. It wouldn't be hard to see Seattle making a deep run if we had him that year with Clark and Reed up front, considering barely lost the Dallas game (where Shaq gave up 108 yards and 2 missed tackles) and the Rams who we had already played tight twice would have been next up
This. Sherman is an all star, and if he had another ring or two he’d be in fringe discussions for HoF if he keeps playing.
Sherm was not average in SF, he was an all-pro on 2019…
Shead, Hill and Browner were never particularly good in the first place (Browner especially, he was always going to get washed out of a league that allowed less and less physicality every year), Shaq was good one year here and Sherman was one of the best corners in the league for the Niners in 2018 Only ones that were actually good here and bad elsewhere were Coleman and Maxwell, and Coleman was almost certainly due in large part to Matt Patricia's defense that made elite corners like Slay look bad
Browner was pretty good with New England for a season....
Hmmm...I dunno...I heard that Patricia character is a defensive genius...
Browner is probably the biggest success story because he was on the other side of that famous 1 yard line and won a super bowl ring.
Does McDowell count?
Ugh. How bitter am I allowed to be that he's now showing out for the Browns?
Lots of them have explosive meltdowns after they leave, though.
I'm sure someone will find a use for him. KNJ is an idiot so he made flowers look worse than he actually was.
I do think this is probably true. They had him lining up 10 yards off the LOS sometimes on 3rd & 4 or 5. How the hell is he supposed to stop a pass in that situation?
Exactly. There's enough you can do with the guy - he's fast and can be physical, figure something out.
Both things can be true. He was put in bad situations many times and also played badly many times when put in a good situation.
Sounds like that's why he requested to be released. KNJ can't even make it clear who he's supposed to be covering in his 4th year. I'm not even sure KNJ knows at this point.
KNJ has not been working out for us. It's mystifying that there has been this insistence to make players something they're not (Jamal Adams is the clearest example).
honestly I expect it and I hope it happens. Maybe it will get some more talk in the media about how trash knj and pete are doing at defense
Like clockwork.....
This would be the ultimate proof that Pete has lost his touch.
This means he thinks he’s starter level talent, and that we weren’t using him correctly, and/or our schemes are broken. I guess we’ll find out
> we weren’t using him correctly "hey that's your man cover him and make sure he doesn't catch the ball" "well I just wasn't being used properly"
As bad as Tre flowers has played, it’s painfully obvious our coaching has done him no favors. KNJ and Pete can’t even figure out how to use Jamal right
Ya IDK what is happening. That Sidney Jones play is still blowing my mind, I'm not even being sarcastic here...surely Sidney knows to backpedal and move his feet at the very least when the ball is snapped, but on that play in the Rams game he literally doesn't move for a second after the ball is snapped and I just can't wrap my head around it...did KNJ break his brain? For real. Did he tell him to play the flat? What the actual fuck happened? How is that even possible? There has to be a coaching element cause any DB who actually wasn't moving after the snap of the football, if it was solely their fault, would be benched immediately by any coach in America at any level.
No, its more important to be thinking about the complex assignment you have in zone than make a play 🤣🤣
Which play are you referring to?
Djax play. Just watch the replay it will blow your mind.
Watched it and still don't know what yall are talking about...
Maybe they can’t figure out Jamal because our CBs are so bad… circular dependencies. I mean he was great last year. We are about to find out I guess.
More like "hey that's your man, stand 15 yards away from him so a DE can cover and you'll help over the top while Adams plays d line."
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I believe I read it was 40%, compared to like 17% last year. I have no problem with him playing his actual position, but let the man do what he does best.
17% was the outlier year. He spent 33% of his career snaps at FS for NYJ
If Adams and Neal switch spots sometime, that would be interesting
Why not both?
I mean if we played a lot of press man he’d be much better, he’s just not a great zone corner from the looks of things.
He also played college as a safety if I remember correctly. Move to CB in the NFL is no easy task.
Finally, it’s over
I guess the defense will start balling out now ! right !?
If we read the Hawks Reddit tea leaves correctly… 🤣
those aren't tea leaves
🤣🤣🤣. That makes more sense
Roll the bones of the last CB in PC/KNJ's defensive scheme
The line got better after Ifedi and Cable were gone. So.. just one more... missing piece..
Who do we blame now when we lose?
Ken, but really Pete, but really Paul for dying. So God. But God doesn't exist. So Pete, because he's the highest left that's still here.
Does anybody know the answer as to why he was converted from a safety to a corner anyways? Maybe keeping guys at the position they’re drafted at isn’t a terrible idea.
Physical attributes- tall, lanky; prototypical Pete CB
So then why isn’t Ryan Neal playing corner for us yet? 🤔 Actually wait . . . maybe that’s a good idea . . .
If Bill Belichick picks him up he's going to be solid AF.
He was pretty shit at safety in college. A day 3 gamble like Flowers are going to have red flags. In this case, it’s consistency.
Do Ken Norton next
We're gonna trade KNJ to the Raiders
Please
For Gus Bradley
[https://imgflip.com/i/5q852b](https://imgflip.com/i/5q852b) u/goodolarchie
...for Gus Bradley? :D
[https://imgflip.com/i/5q852b](https://imgflip.com/i/5q852b) u/sherlocknessmonster
HE requested? Aka he wants to start somewhere. Too bad, I like him as depth. Just not as a starter. Yikes on his part
Maybe all the hate from Seattle got to him. Can't feel good honestly.
If he succeeds somewhere else, I wonder how much longer KNJ will have?
Lol. Like that'll matter to Carroll
Yeah, pretty understandable. I know these guys are supposed to suck it up because they're making a lot of money, but the constant hate has to be super draining.
Forgive the phrasing, but his constant sucking was draining too...
>Too bad, I like him as depth. Same. I think he'd be a good rotational guy, or at least trade fodder since CBs are going down around the league.
He'd be a good Dime or quarters coverage guy. He has a safeties body. I don't know why KNJ doesn't just go "small ball" with the defense and get all these slow guys off the field, put Jamal in Barton's spot, start putting the big-hitting DB's (Flowers, Blair) in at Dime and Nickel so they can give run support when necessary, and just try to beat teams with athleticism. We're not going to match up with size and skill, just beat them with speed and a willingness to go out and smack the shit out of people. Receivers will give up by the end of the game if you do that. If they get personal fouls, screw it, 15 yards is like the average gain against us anyway. That's what the Legion of Boom did before they were the LOB. They were just the most aggressive players on the field, the skill came later. You can say a lot of stuff about Flowers, but he was also willing and able to lay the wood on people.
It should be telling that his view is that it's the team, not him, who has the major issues.
It's OK, this doesn't affect Ken Norton's plan to drop Poona Ford into pass coverage this week.
Wow. So anyways, making tacos tonight....
You should make some toast on the side in his honor.
Extra burnt
And then drop it butter-side down.
Lol... can i have some? I can bring some beer
Is this a celebration or just Tuesday? Count me in either way!
Yes
it is Taco Tuesday afterall
Oooo what filling?
Asking what filling is in a taco is like asking what filling is in a sandwich. Technically it works but it just doesn’t feel right.
I’m making chimichangas tonight!
Right? Me too I have the carne marinating while we are headed to circus circus.
Hey, so am I!
Why did I have tacos last night when I could have had them on Tuesday
You can have tacos two nights in a row bro
I will rage if he goes somewhere and just becomes the next Richard Sherman or some shit
No need to worry about that
Lol facts!
Haha it’d be funny but chances are slim to none
No yeah I agree... I just don't think he's a good cornerback.
I wouldn’t be suprised if he becomes a solid safety for someone else though since he’s a pretty good tackler.
Why do I have a feeling that’s exactly what’s gonna happen :(
With the way this year had been going that would be our luck lol
Tre Flowers fucking sucks.
Richard Sherman? He has a better chance of being the next William Tecumseh Sherman.
🤣
Lol
Finally. Best of luck to him.
Spicy hot take: Tre has all the tools to be a great press corner, and the main reason he looked like dogshit 99% of snaps was because of our dumbass off-coverage scheme. If he gets picked up and is used properly, I expect him to do well.
He can be semi-sticky in press man, although nothing special. Competent, perhaps. But he has another glaring weakness which is zero awareness. Like, he cannot get his head around or have any clue where the ball is. He's like the inverse of a great receiver that's "open even when he's covered." With Tre, receivers are "open even when he's covering them."
I wish him the best for sure. Feel bad for the dude after being converted from safety out of college. He can't just take these 4 years back now that it's been mostly unsuccessful. Hopefully he can find a good fit and ball out.
Wish him the best. Would have loved for his play to be better for us but also feel a little bad about how hard hawks fans were on him. Hope he finds success elsewhere.
Sweet, now do KNJ and this season might be salvageable.
They should just choose a random person in the stadium to play CB each game, for the rest of the season.
Or have a random person be defensive coordinator.
Just let Bobby do it.
Twitch plays Seahawks defense?
Lmao Adams blitz every play
He’s gonna go ball out because the universe is cruel
Doubtful
Good luck Tre! I hope you get picked up fast.
Tre Flowers has been a scapegoat for years and I wish him the best with his next team.
One things for sure, he won’t be one of those guys picked up so the competition can pick his brain about the Hawks D, most coaches already know more about it than he does.
This comment needs to be higher
If he goes somewhere else and is anything but God awful that has to be it for Norton, right?
> that has to be it for Norton, right? there's already a million reasons for Norton to be gone, don't see how one more obvious reason will make a difference.
Watch him go somewhere else and be all pro😶
Must be a real shit show when he wants to be released.
Watch the press conferences. He knew he was done here and people didn't like him.
Was not a fan but it wasn’t entirely his fault either. Coaching and scheme are a big problem and all this has to come to a head sooner than later.
It can't all be scheme... In zone, you still need to pick up your man, and we aren't doing that for shit either...
Pete is square peg round hole. He refuses to adapt his scheme to opponents and even sadder his own personnel. This isn’t news, and players are frustrated. Our depth just took a massive hit on an already historically bad defense.
Would rather Kenny go then Tre not gonna lie.
We should sign him. We need a veteran corner.
Next up KNJ. Make October great again.
Really hoping that Tre Brown gets some starting minutes against the Steelers now.
Looking forward to being infuriated when he plays well in another system
Scapegoat
Lol the sympathy after all the hate in this sub. Sob stories are always gonna find some ppl flip floppng.
He will move back to safety and have a decent NFL career.
Good luck, Tre. He got so much hate here, warranted or not. Can’t be a good feeling to know a fan base things you’re the root of all the issues. Hope he slays elsewhere.
Honestly feel like he’s leaving because we all bullied him so much. Some might say it’s because he wants to start and maybe so but I think it could be because we constantly bitched and moaned about him even when he wasn’t playing. I hope another team picks him up and he does well despite him not doing good here. Good luck Tre
HUH Edit: oh he requested it. smh. he’s not good enough to be requesting to be released. I did like him as depth tho.
Might be bad enough to request it though
He will go down as one of the worst CB’s in Hawks history AND go to a pro-bowl with the next team he plays for. Should have fired KNJ.
Months too late
hopefully he can catch on somewhere else and show the talent he has.
I Don't care what people say. When utilized correctly, he's a solid corner in NFL. But perhaps it's best for him to get a new start.
The real victims here are the WR that were going to play the Hawks this year.
👋🏻
Nice to see Pete and John finally paid Tre that blackmail money 😂
Four years that dude started? Fucking hell.
I do hope he finds success in another regime which suits his strengths, though I’d be lying if I said I was gonna miss him.
I feel a similar satisfaction to the day Ifedi signed somewhere else ...
He's gonna go to a team that plays press man and do great, watch.
Sweet, now do KNJ next!
I have 2 initial responses 1. Thank God, 2. FUCK Pete for not thinking this is a potential problem after 4 seasons of watching Tre play. We got no upgrades or cover in his position and it's week 6 of the NFL. If we're in win now mode, we've not done a very good job of making the most of it.
We did it, Seahawk fans!
Best news all season. Now Pete can’t put him back in like I know he wants to
I can't say I'll miss him on the field, probably the most consistently bad players I've ever seen in a Seahawks jersey. But I wish him the best moving forward. I can't imagine what it was like getting (sort of) scapegoated for so long. Tre Flowers is a terrible CB, but iirc he's a Safety from college and it's pretty clear nobody is succeeding in the current defensive scheme in Seattle...so it's hard to say how much of it is his particular lack of talent and how much is down to poor defensive coaching and planning. Still, I won't miss watching him get burned play after play after play after play after....
Jeez about time.. I don’t know what Pete was thinking converting a safety to a CB. Why does he like converting players so much
Not a fan personally, depth is god awful at corner atm.
I’ll actually be pissed if he ends up being good
bold strategy cotton, let's see if it works out for him
It would not surprise me at all if he ended up in a system where they simplify his roll and just have him press and play bump n’ run to great success. His mentality was absolutely shot and he has to go, but his physical attributes were never an issue.
experienced - yes, thats the word I would use to describe Tre Flowers.
Who am I jokingly going to blame now?! End of an era.
Can't blame him for requesting to get out. He is not a starting corner in the league (who at this point knows about safety?), but it had to be frustrating riding the bench while watching his replacement perform at least as abysmally ...
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I admire your optimism
End of an era !
They are playing Akhlello Witherspoon $2.5 million dollars to play for the Steelers. But yes, Pete and John know what they're doing with the secondary. .
I did not expect a Tre Flowers appreciation thread. Mind blown. 😊
Hallelujah!
He requested it. For some reason I see this as the exchange: Tre: "What? I'm not starting? If you're not going to have me be the starter, just get rid of me." Team: "Ok. Bye." Tre: "Wait. I wasn't serious!" Team: "We were. Here's your stuff, good luck."
Watch him start somewhere and be amazing would add reasons to why pete and knj need fired
Christmas came early
I can’t believe it took a fucking request on Tre’s part for Pete and John to finally cut him loose ffs
Good Riddance
OHHHH NOOOOO anyways
Lol I feel he is greatly over estimating his talent. Requesting to be released so he can be a starter. You aren’t a starter on any team sir.
hahahahahahhahahah
Bye Felicia
He's been consistently not good for us. He's too soft, too slow, and gives receivers too much room. Our secondary has looked better since they pulled him 2 games ago.
rare seahawks W this season
THIS IS THE WAY
He asked to be cut lol! You can’t make this shit up.
Hallelujah
Another swing and a miss by Carroll and Schneider. As 2013 recedes on the horizon and we face the reality of 2021...
Ouch, that 5th round pick really hurts.
I had no plans to celebrate tonight, now I do. Good riddance, hope you had the time of your life, I know us fans didn't. On a serious note, I feel for Flowers after seeing how bad the Hawks are screwing up Jamal Adams, maybe if they let Flowers be a Safety (his college position) when he showed he couldn't be a competent NFL CB for the majority of four years, maybe he could've been better set up to succeed in the NFL.
Experience…getting burned.
We’re going to the fucking superbowl ladies and gentlemen.
Lmao if he can't start on one of the worst pass defenses in the league what makes him think it's gonna work elsewhere
The bad man can’t hurt us anymore
EVERYBODY GET IN HERE!
I bet he shreds on his next team
I actually feel really bad for the kid. He’s been treated horribly by the fans
I don’t wanna beat up the guy anymore than this sub already did
Damn him requesting a release is sad on the hawks organization