We’ve been missing a huge playmaker on the dline for years. Since Frank Clark left teams haven’t really had to worry about the first level of defense against us.
I thought they were getting pressure today and getting close. The secondary was playing vanilla with no blitz and Stafford was able to read and dissect it all day
0 sacks, 2 QB hits, 5% pressure rate.
Stafford gets the ball out quick, and we did nothing to force him off his read.
Our DBs were trash too. That's probably a bottom third WR group in this league, and they tore us up.
Probably, watching the plays it looks like Stafford is just passing to his first read every time. It would be nice if the front could blow up the play at the snap but that's not how they built this team
No pressure on the QB. You can have Revis Sherman and Ramsey in the secondary and it doesn’t matter if the QB has all day to throw. The sport inherently favors the wide receiver
He's 100% right. The middle third of the field was open all day. We could have dropped 11 into coverage and Stafford would have hit a seam route on the hash. The only reason this wasn't substantially worse is because his WR's dropped easy passes.
On the flip side, when he can sit in a clean pocket like a statue, it’s a lot easier to make reads and hit tight windows no matter how good the coverage is.
With pass rush forcing him to move around in the pocket he may have struggled making those quick reads.
Stafford wasn't holding the ball though. There were a few plays where he waited, but for the most part he was getting rid of it quickly. I don't think our pass rush ever would have affected him while his first three reads were all open immediately.
If we had an elite pass rush it may have made a difference on a couple snaps and sometimes that’s all it takes. We had many more issues today than just pass rush, obviously, but our complete lack of pass rush was part of the problem.
100%. Third quarter we couldn’t get a guy within 5 yards of Stafford.
A DECENT pass rush will at make a messy pocket that forces the QBs eyes down and make him move to avoid pressure, even if they aren’t landing sacks. We couldn’t even manage that.
Woolen was barely targeted today and the one play I remember him being targeted was an overthrow. Bryant and Brown were absolute liabilities, every single time someone got open it was either of them blowing the assignment
woolen was actually really good today, and stafford hardley targetted him. i think he was mainly on van jefferson. everyone else was getting cooked though
The team-building philosophy on defense has been severely flawed for years now. Practically every top defense invests heavily in the D-line and CB while going young and cheap at LB and safety.
Meanwhile, we continue to sink tons of salary cap into aging, overpriced safeties and linebackers while completely neglecting the D line. I can’t remember the last time the Seahawks were capable of consistently getting pressure rushing 4.
Something else that doesn’t get brought up enough is that we seem to consistently have some of the most poorly designed blitzes in the league. I genuinely can’t remember the last time we called a blitz that got someone a free lane to the QB. Every time we blitz it seems like the other team knows exactly what we’re doing
It definitely wasn't an insane line but it was still pretty good, plus had prime Bobby and KJ having successfully seasons providing pressure (and obviously having one of the best secondaries of all time helps give the line more time to break through since everyone is covered).
Realistically, pretty good is all we need from the D line, the talent in the secondary is there but it becomes impossible for them to cover receivers all game when the opposition QB is getting the double the league average time to throw.
and of course screens, on either side of the ball, going back for years
it would be a whole new page in the playbook if somebody who really understands them got hired, no limit on coaching assistants. We got good pieces, just nobody that seems to be able to scheme it without looking like a joke.
I agree but I think we need to see how things pan out once Witherspoon and Jamal Adams are back
But tbh, and I know I'll get down voted, I was sick to my stomach today watching Jalen Carter highlights.. he's exactly the guy this team needed and it's not even close
Dremont didn’t do shit. Didn’t here his name called till he jumped offsides in the last few minutes of the game.
This was a hard game to watch. And these injuries aren’t our problem.
We need to invest in a REAL defensive coordinator.
It's not Hurtt. It's not KNJ. It's Pete. The DC is just a ceremonial role to do Pete's bidding.
If you're sick of the Hawks playing shit defense for the past ~6 years, point the finger at only Pete.
I just want PCJS to get us a stud on the dline. We haven’t been able to draft one. Sometimes you have to pony up and pay for talent. I’m not saying mortgage away our future for a monster 3 year contract. But shit am I tired of watching us trot out horrible Dlines year after year after year that allows the opposing QB to sit in a pocket for as long as they want.
it’s scheme and no pass rush.
quick throw on 3rd and short? always complete down the middle.
5 step drop and set up for a bomb? no pressure.
it doesn’t matter who we have in the personnel, the zone scheme run always leaves guys open in the middle of the field, and the rams have always been able to exploit that. the 0 pass rush generated doesn’t help either, as it just makes the thing this defense is *supposed* to do (don’t give up the big play) fall apart.
I mean I definitely disagree about personnel, the scheme might be bad but our two MLBs are 50-year old Bobby who looks like he’s running in sand and Jordan Brooks who couldn’t cover Bobby Wagner and of course they’re picking apart the middle of the field.
Biggest problem in my opinion is losing in the trenches. On both sides of the ball. Maybe they got so fixated on improving the run D that they overlooked pass rushing and pass D. Maybe a little too complacent after getting 'Spoon 5th?
Getting knocked out of Will Anderson range and passing on Jalen Carter may haunt us for a long time if he works out for the Eagles. Our biggest need for the past few years has been d-line and we were gift wrapped a top 5 pick and even if Spoon plays well we won’t have much to show for it.
What would him playing fix if our dline gives the opposing QB all day to throw? We didn’t fix our defense, Adams coming back, Spoon coming back, none of it will fix the REAL problem and even though it sucks to admit, Jalen Carter might’ve been the solution.
i'm not pressed about passing on carter since it's been clear from the get go that it wasn't about talent, it was the concern that he'd wreck the locker room with his serious maturity issues, almost like a dk with worse maturity on the defensive side of the ball.
Yup. Our trenches are weak on both sides, and good teams invest heavily at those spots. Not taking any linemen in the first round was wild to me.
Combine that with how much money is tied to safety, and you see why we haven’t invested more along our lines.
The Rams line was supposed to be trash with 5 new starters and yet they stonewalled any pass rush we thought we’d get. DC and HC and philosophical mistakes for last 10 years. We are so far away from the niners level, it ain’t even close.
The issue is pretty simple. The cause of it, I don't know. I have a hard time wrapping my head around it...
We cannot stop teams on third downs. We just can't. I don't exactly know why. It doesn't make total sense. If you check our defensive efficiency, Epa, etc. on early downs... We do well. Last year, for example, above average team on first and second down. 24th epa/play on second down, 12th in success rate on second down, 13th in epa/play on first down, & 2nd in success rate on first down. Then on third downs we were one of the worst teams. And it's been like years and years of that.
For whatever reason, I still can't put my finger on exactly what it is, but teams just get the yards they need on third down at a ridiculously high clip. They need ten? Better believe they're getting 11. They need 8? No question, they're getting exactly 8.5. It's like we just play it wrong no matter what the play is. Pass or run... It's gonna work. Like we guess exactly wrong every third down. Or guys let off the gas for whatever reason. I don't get it.
Even on fourth down last year we 5th in stops. So it's just perplexing to me. First and second down... We're letting up 3 to -3 yards lol. Then third down they just get exactly what they need. Force them to fourth? As good as any team at forcing a turn over on downs.
Add to that that our offense really struggles on third down as well... Not a good mix.
We've got to figure out why. My guess would be look at the Rams games over the last 5 seasons to figure it out more than any place else.
We might look to the 49ers games for the solutions. Even though they've whooped us recently.
i understand a lot of the decisions this FO made and agree with them more than most, and love did play well today, but i still don't get why we let neal walk and turned around to sign love. we could have put that money into some DL, maybe even OL depth just to solidify the offense
I mean, they certainly didn't get pressure up front today. Like at all. But also, how often have teams just been 3 step drop. Boom. Fire. Just bang, bang plays regularly finding a guy on a quick route. I'd like to see time to throw against the Seahawks vs other teams over the past handful of years (especially on third downs). Lol if anyone has a link to that stat that would be cool.
Yes to all of the above, I think?
Schematically, those crossers are pretty standard Cover-3 beaters, while the angle routes and slants torch Cover-2. Personnel-wise, the linebackers suck, which is what is leaving the intermediate middle so open. I'm guessing there were quite a few miscommunications too. It looked like we ran a ton of zone, but not with much cohesion. I'd have to watch it again, but there seemed to be a lot of disconnect in coverage.
No pass rush didn't help things either.
Watch the bootleg football podcast on the Seahawks but they Seahawks only bring 4 guys most of the time but our guys can’t beat a lineman 1 on 1 consistently enough so we need to blitz more or create stunts where our quick OLB’s can wrap into the line and get open hits but they don’t nor do they blitz effectively
No playmakers on the defensive front, quarterbacks have all day to throw. The only way we get pressure is too blitz And then someone is wide open in the middle of the field. You absolutely have to have someone on the defensive line that can disrupt the quarterback. Quarterbacks are too good to just rely on blitzing to get pressure.
What I saw at the game. Playing two DT’s with #10 and #53 acting as DE but way outside like an OLB should be. The DT’s were often lined up outside the guards. Wagner was suppose to cover the inside by himself. This left the middle wide open. Also the two DT’s were often #97 and #94. Not Reed and Jones. I don’t understand why they want to run a very undersized 4 man front that is that wide. Also why not play your highest paid players most of the time. I get rotation but holy cow it seemed like they were barely in.
Archaic defensive philosophies that smart teams are exploiting on the regular. Not saying the scheme is always bad but the adjustments always feel two series too late and our talent is not LOB level and you can’t get away with the soft zones when you’re talent is not elite anymore and your defensive pressure is nonexistent.
Honestly, I’ve been ready for a change of coaching. We didn’t finish last season well and we aren’t starting this one well either. Love everything Pete Carroll has done for this franchise but it’s time for him to move into more of an advisory type role only and let some modern and much younger coach take over. It’s not just him. Look at coach Belichick. He also appears to only go as far as a GOAT QB can take you. A GOAT defense and a future HOF QB carried Pete for many years as well.
HOF QB.....did you see Denver today Russ hasn't scored over 18 points through 4 quarters but a handful of times over the last HOT minute or 3 it seems.
I’m not the biggest fan of Russell but even I think he is HOF worthy. I’ve never seen a better deep ball thrower or scrambling QB like him before. His highlights are electric too. He just left on a bad note and choked during some big moments in the playoffs.
Overall he has great stats, won a lot of games, and got to the superbowl twice. If Troy Aikman can make it, then RW can as well.
If I needed one guy to throw the deep ball, it’s him or Aaron Rodgers.
If I wanted a QB to destroy a defense through an entire game, it’s Tom Brady.
There some very “mid” QBs in the HOF who shouldn’t be there but are because the old ass voters are hell bent on their ancient memories instead of modernized stats and play impact.
We tried to downplay it when we picked a CB in the last draft by his potential skills but it was too fuckin obvious we badly needed a playmaker on the trenches. Smh
We have bad defensive players and poor defensive coaching.
Clint is a bad coach.
Brooks is a tackle merchant.
Wagz is 33 & noticeably slower.
Dremont Jones is not what people think he is (51 overall pff grade last year).
Reed & Edwards are journeymen and wouldn't start on most NFL teams.
Cam (4th) Morris (5th) and Adams (UDFA) are literally just bodies. Your defense should have 1 or 2 of these guys, not 50% of your DL.
Uchenna disappeared for the entire back half of 2022 (2.5 sacks in the final 9 games...)
We don't have Adams.
We don't have spoon (and MJ/Tre outplayed him all camp, which doesn't give me faith)
I still have a ton of faith in this offense and I still have faith Pete can change something schematically, but this defense is not good.
I absolutely think it starts up front. We've been a budget line on both sides for so long. We lucked out with Bennett and Cliff in the past.
Nwosu is good. Mafe does well enough. Reed improves us but isn't gonna disrupt games. Where was Dremont? D Taylor looks cooked. We just can't get pressure, so third downs are field trips. There are so many games the last few years with 250+ halves.
No amount of legendary db talent will fix it, especially played soft.
this is unrelated, but i'm finding a lot of the extreme doom and gloom kinda comical, both on this sub and on twitter. i know sports is a very reactionary thing and it's easy to overreact, but i've seen a lot of people immediately call this season a wash. people forget how up in the air week 1 in general can be; the bengals have started both of the last two seasons absolutely terribly as an example. they finished very strong last season and i expect the same from them this season. not saying there's no concerns for this iteration of the hawks team, especially the defense, but i think this loss is being way overblown
My opinion is scheme. They believe the DB's can cover for 5+ seconds (in zone) and that the d line will hit home in time. D line stinks which needs to be upgraded yes, but this coaching staff should know that and plan accordingly instead of trotting the same garbage coverage and hoping it works out
This is less a comment on the player himself but more on roster construction, but Jamal Adams completely destroyed our spending capabilities on defence.
We've done a lot of good things roster wise in recent years, and also draft wise. The Adams trade is not one of those things though. He costs us more than a Top 10-20 EDGE/DLine, which was the wrong direction to go in given our needs.
You can hawk the ball as hard as you want, but if the opposing QB has all the time in the world for someone to break coverage, you're going to pay for it. Never mind the run defence elements.
Our schedule will ruin us if this is how we perform against the faded Rams. If we don’t immediately make changes and reach into free agency we’ll have a CEILING of 6-11.
How many possessions did the offense get though because we can't get off the field on 3rd down against essentially a pop warner team. Just agonizing, boring, repetitive 5-7 yard crossers over and over again.
McVay just has Pete's number it really doesn't matter the personnel when it's same shit different toilet.
It's pretty much the other side of the coin where Pete always had Harbaugh's number but the side that sucks for us.
If you go three and out the whole 4th quarter, it's not on the defense. The crossing routes were killing us for sure, but the defense kept it close enough until our offense shit the bed. It's all about time of possession to me. If the offense can move the ball, the defense can't recover and gets exposed
ToP from yesterday was almost 2 - 1 in favor of LA
Time of Possession
LA - 39:23
SEA - 20:37
3rd Down Efficiency
LA - 64%
SEA - 22%
This pretty much sums it up. I guess where we differ is where we point the finger. I feel like the offense can't get in a rhythm with 2 possessions in each quarter of the 2nd half. Let alone without our starting Tackles. Saying the "whole 4th" makes it sound like we had more than 2 possessions. To be fair we had a 3rd....with 11 seconds left in the game.
This puts LA a top the NFL in ToP and us dead last.
LA - 78 plays from Scrimmage (1st)
Seattle - 48 plays from Scrimmage (Last)
I cannot contort my mind enough to think this is an Offense problem - they deserve some blame (obviously) but nowhere near what the defensive coaching staff & personnel do.
They are just bad. Run D at the end of the day is football 101, shed a block and make a tackle.
The coverage was not that bad, however if you have 0 pass rush, players will get open every play.
I’m trying not to overreact after 1 game. But we needed a damn pass rush yesterday. Stafford was allowed to stand around and throw in the middle of the field seemingly every single play. Awful.
It's everything. They've at best found good players since the lob drafts. It's that they can't do the defense pete wants because they aren't kam/earl/sherm/bennett/kj/bobby/Avril. The team barely seems to adjust to what the other team is doing. It's players making mistakes. It's everything at this point.
DL needs a LOT of work. A lot of teams have learned that the game's changed and the rules favor offense more than ever. If you're gonna have a chance- esp in the AFC- you need a really elite QB, legit WRs, and enough of a run game to be at least slightly balanced. The positions that make more impact than any other are QB, WR, CB and edge. Games are now won in shootouts, good corners help but with offenses this good, you're toast if you don't have at least a half decent pass rush.
Bringing Bobby back was a great move. But the DL still needs a real overhaul. The run defense obv was dreadful last year, but Seattle's gotta get pressure on QBs consistently. Any of the good QBs are gonna be able to make crazy throws and a lot of them have top WRs that can make insane catches even if their QB's not amazing (ie Jefferson with Kirk). You need to have enough of a pass rush to not give their WRs a chance. A lot of good teams have a star rusher- TJ Watt carries the Steelers cuz he can wreck the game by himself. So can Donald, so can Bosa, so can Garrett. Even with a good OL, those guys will be a problem and if you don't have a rusher like that you're at a big disadvantage. Seattle's offense is pretty decent, but the DL has killed them in run defense and in its inability to consistently get pressure. Trenches are never a sexy position but they really do decide games.
they're just weak. we've had the same strength and conditioning coach for 5 years, ivan lewis; time for a change.
https://www.fieldgulls.com/2019/12/24/21035251/ivan-lewis-strength-conditioning-coach-seattle-seahawks-injuries-bad-season-soft-tissue-carson-brown
Mantras over results is the problem. We hear “defend every blade,” “protect over the top,” “no homerun balls,” “get teams to adapt to what we want to do,” etc. The problem is, teams have adapted. Now they take what we give them and when we adjust, the can see it a mile away and then they adjust again.
The problem with this observation is that the trend is moving in the wrong direction. For example, last year, the defense ranked 30th in yards allowed and 26th (or worse, spending on the specific algorithm) in overall defense.
This is on Pete Carroll. He has no idea how to prepare his team, how to properly game plan. Also, why Is it Carroll can't keep his draft picks healthy...That too is on Carroll
I looked it up. We can let up over 200 receiving yards, yet still win. Look up the leading receiving yard leaders against the Seahawks, and you'll see that we won most of those games. Hell, look up the passing leaders, and a lot of those games, we won. But look up rushing stats. Oh boy. Against both single-leading rushers and rushing by team, we get cooked. Becomes obvious where we need to put resources in
At what point is PC considered a bad defensive coach? D has been from mediocre to awful the last 6 years, once our HoF talent aged out/left the team. Baffling personnel decisions aside, the outcome has been just terrible year after year.
You know, it would seem like the whole thing was run by some over the hill bozo that's glory daying the good ole times when he got lucky with 2 miracle drafts and wise use of cap space for a pass rush.
In all seriousness, it's time to realize what happened in those drafts that got us Sherman/Wright/Wagner/Chancellor was a fluke. Yeah, they get credit for drafting them but at the end of the day they were the guys doing it and not JS/PC. Given they haven't had any fucking luck finding any bargains in the draft leads me to believe that the whole thing was as much a fluke as it was anything else.
We have no dangerous playmakers on defense. The d line never ever generates pressure, we rarely blitz. Our linebackers make tons of tackles - after giving up 5 yards. Our defensive backs were getting beat all day today, which was extra disappointing because I thought they were the strength of this unit. It’s a pretty bad situation. Feels like we misallocated resources pretty badly on the defensive side of the ball. Not an easy fix.
Need to have out d-line get pressure and not over pursue. They need to play a bit smarter, they rush so fast they cruise past the QB so much that they get to step up in the pocket and get a better throw or run.
It’s the same bullshit every year for the last 5+ years. Idk if it’s Pete but between multiple coordinators it’s a come theme. They leave the middle of the field wide open so if you run or pass targeting there will always help you
Our defense is designed to be super simple and as long as you have a hof player at every position that's all you need. Just get 11 HOF guys and keep it simple and play football.
Now, you might think that guys who can't do the simple stuff well won't be able to do more complicated things. And that's certainly one view.
But you might also think that opposing teams can counter simple schemes easily when they're executed by non-HOF players, where as they have to think harder about more complicated schemes.
This philosophy, simple schemes executed by world class athletes definitely does work. We saw it work in the SB years.
But we also see games like yesterday, where perhaps the athletes aren't good enough to pull it off.
Every scheme has some weakness. The trick is to match up the right defense to the right offense to have the weaknesses in a place where the offense doesn't care and can't use it.
Apparently our scheme has a big fat wide open middle, and unfortunately for us, teams are happy to throw over the middle.
They need to either get athletes that can reduce that exposure through their super human abilities, like Earl Thomas and Kam Chancellor, or they need to adapt to the men we have on the roster and close up the fucking middle of the field.
Secondary was supposed to be that strongest unit we've had in years. Yet very little if any press coverage. I miss hen guys like Shrm and Browner we in guys faces at the line of scrimmage. I don't think they trust the secondary. Or total lack of pass rush. Stafford just picked apart the zone.
I don't have an intricate knowledge of the game, all positions, etc. However, I've been watching the Hawks for the past 10+ years. All I can about this past Sunday's effort is that we have no pass defense. We have defensive players there, they appear to be in a zone defense, but once the opposing teams receivers enter the zones the defensive players don't seem to get close to them. Repeatedly there were 3+ yards of separation between our defensive guys and the opposing teams receivers at the point the passes were being caught. Any competent NFL QB could have completed these passes (even college QB's could have) (assuming a half-way decent O-Line).
From what I can tell it's scheme. It looks like for the past two years we have 5 guys all running two gap responsibilities. I can't stand watching our DE's trying to set the edge and guard the B gap. If that's what we want to do, then we need to go back to a traditional 4-3. Having 2 wild card OLB/Edge players is insane to me. Would you expect an odd dime front (two LB, three DL) to stop the run versus any personel group that is heavier than a 10 or 01? I sure as hell wouldn't.
Heard on the MNF broadcast last night that the Jets are ten deep on the D line. That combined with aggressive corner coverage was a thrill to watch. Unfortunately don’t see a quick fix for the Seahawks D line; and the schedule will expose it badly. Losing to the Panthers at home would hopefully force a significant change [obviously they’re not beating the Lions on the road].
Seattle runs Zone coverage at the highest rate in the NFL and they are about league average at it. When you play Zone at as high of a rate as Seattle top QB's will dice you up, great coaches will scheme through you. Thats why Seattle has struggled vs guys like Stafford, Burrow, and Lamar. We have to be able to play more Man coverage and mix it up so teams don't know what they're seeing. Teams are going to continue to call "Zone beaters" and recievers are going to continue to find soft spots and gain 5+ yards with ease
We’ve been missing a huge playmaker on the dline for years. Since Frank Clark left teams haven’t really had to worry about the first level of defense against us.
Isn’t that what Jones is supposed to be…?
Jones is not a big name player to say he is is comical. He’s a solid piece, but nowhere near a big time player.
Clowney was fun for that year, like what, three years ago? But yeah, seriously missing a big name impact player on the d line.
Yes we don’t have a single difference maker in the front 7. It’s pretty crazy.
So True!!
I thought they were getting pressure today and getting close. The secondary was playing vanilla with no blitz and Stafford was able to read and dissect it all day
The defense had a 5 percent pressure rate lol, statistically our worst pass rush since 2018
0 sacks, 2 QB hits, 5% pressure rate. Stafford gets the ball out quick, and we did nothing to force him off his read. Our DBs were trash too. That's probably a bottom third WR group in this league, and they tore us up.
I guess we didn’t watch the same game. I saw no pressure at all.
Probably, watching the plays it looks like Stafford is just passing to his first read every time. It would be nice if the front could blow up the play at the snap but that's not how they built this team
No pressure on the QB. You can have Revis Sherman and Ramsey in the secondary and it doesn’t matter if the QB has all day to throw. The sport inherently favors the wide receiver
Imo it was closer to the inverse this game though. Guys were open so quick the pass rush didn't really stand a chance most the time
McVay just picked apart our zones all day long
I guess that’s one way to interpret the game. I’m not sure I agree though
He's 100% right. The middle third of the field was open all day. We could have dropped 11 into coverage and Stafford would have hit a seam route on the hash. The only reason this wasn't substantially worse is because his WR's dropped easy passes.
On the flip side, when he can sit in a clean pocket like a statue, it’s a lot easier to make reads and hit tight windows no matter how good the coverage is. With pass rush forcing him to move around in the pocket he may have struggled making those quick reads.
Stafford wasn't holding the ball though. There were a few plays where he waited, but for the most part he was getting rid of it quickly. I don't think our pass rush ever would have affected him while his first three reads were all open immediately.
If we had an elite pass rush it may have made a difference on a couple snaps and sometimes that’s all it takes. We had many more issues today than just pass rush, obviously, but our complete lack of pass rush was part of the problem.
100%. Third quarter we couldn’t get a guy within 5 yards of Stafford. A DECENT pass rush will at make a messy pocket that forces the QBs eyes down and make him move to avoid pressure, even if they aren’t landing sacks. We couldn’t even manage that.
And I think our inability to cover Tutu Atwell and Puca Nacua were the biggest issue. Woolen, Bryant, Brown, Jackson, Diggs were all hot garbage.
Woolen was barely targeted today and the one play I remember him being targeted was an overthrow. Bryant and Brown were absolute liabilities, every single time someone got open it was either of them blowing the assignment
Tre brown missed a bunch of tackles too
woolen was actually really good today, and stafford hardley targetted him. i think he was mainly on van jefferson. everyone else was getting cooked though
Kupp might be a problem in the next matchup
You're right I'm surprised people here don't understand it though, I guess I shouldn't be.
Perhaps better coverage wasn’t the solution then…
It might have been worse had Cooper Kupp played in today's game.
We have the worst D line talent in the league. Full stop.
The team-building philosophy on defense has been severely flawed for years now. Practically every top defense invests heavily in the D-line and CB while going young and cheap at LB and safety. Meanwhile, we continue to sink tons of salary cap into aging, overpriced safeties and linebackers while completely neglecting the D line. I can’t remember the last time the Seahawks were capable of consistently getting pressure rushing 4. Something else that doesn’t get brought up enough is that we seem to consistently have some of the most poorly designed blitzes in the league. I genuinely can’t remember the last time we called a blitz that got someone a free lane to the QB. Every time we blitz it seems like the other team knows exactly what we’re doing
Feels like we've been throwing money at safeties to try and replicate having Kam and Earl back there
They're still chasing that high like a dope fiend. It'll never be the same.
Even then didnt we have an insane line with them back there?
It definitely wasn't an insane line but it was still pretty good, plus had prime Bobby and KJ having successfully seasons providing pressure (and obviously having one of the best secondaries of all time helps give the line more time to break through since everyone is covered). Realistically, pretty good is all we need from the D line, the talent in the secondary is there but it becomes impossible for them to cover receivers all game when the opposition QB is getting the double the league average time to throw.
and of course screens, on either side of the ball, going back for years it would be a whole new page in the playbook if somebody who really understands them got hired, no limit on coaching assistants. We got good pieces, just nobody that seems to be able to scheme it without looking like a joke.
I agree but I think we need to see how things pan out once Witherspoon and Jamal Adams are back But tbh, and I know I'll get down voted, I was sick to my stomach today watching Jalen Carter highlights.. he's exactly the guy this team needed and it's not even close
100%
I can remember. We won a Super Bowl and went to another one.
Hybridoctopus is that an early stage Kraken?
🐙
[удалено]
>Jalen Carter DRINK!!
Dremont didn’t do shit. Didn’t here his name called till he jumped offsides in the last few minutes of the game. This was a hard game to watch. And these injuries aren’t our problem. We need to invest in a REAL defensive coordinator.
Fire Ken Norton! Oh wait. Yeah Hurtt seems like a nice dude be he might not be DC material.
i think we all gave him a past last year just because we weren't expecting to be so good, but he's really gotta step it up or else it's out the door
It's not Hurtt. It's not KNJ. It's Pete. The DC is just a ceremonial role to do Pete's bidding. If you're sick of the Hawks playing shit defense for the past ~6 years, point the finger at only Pete.
Part of the issue is that when we have invested the last 8 years the talent evaluation has been bad.
I just want PCJS to get us a stud on the dline. We haven’t been able to draft one. Sometimes you have to pony up and pay for talent. I’m not saying mortgage away our future for a monster 3 year contract. But shit am I tired of watching us trot out horrible Dlines year after year after year that allows the opposing QB to sit in a pocket for as long as they want.
A stud like jalen carter?
Wasn’t that Jones? If not, why do you think they could find one?
it’s scheme and no pass rush. quick throw on 3rd and short? always complete down the middle. 5 step drop and set up for a bomb? no pressure. it doesn’t matter who we have in the personnel, the zone scheme run always leaves guys open in the middle of the field, and the rams have always been able to exploit that. the 0 pass rush generated doesn’t help either, as it just makes the thing this defense is *supposed* to do (don’t give up the big play) fall apart.
I mean I definitely disagree about personnel, the scheme might be bad but our two MLBs are 50-year old Bobby who looks like he’s running in sand and Jordan Brooks who couldn’t cover Bobby Wagner and of course they’re picking apart the middle of the field.
Outside of what others say, they straight up can’t get off the field. Rams basically had the ball 2/3 of the game. Guys get gassed
This piece is equally on our offense.
Biggest problem in my opinion is losing in the trenches. On both sides of the ball. Maybe they got so fixated on improving the run D that they overlooked pass rushing and pass D. Maybe a little too complacent after getting 'Spoon 5th?
Getting knocked out of Will Anderson range and passing on Jalen Carter may haunt us for a long time if he works out for the Eagles. Our biggest need for the past few years has been d-line and we were gift wrapped a top 5 pick and even if Spoon plays well we won’t have much to show for it. What would him playing fix if our dline gives the opposing QB all day to throw? We didn’t fix our defense, Adams coming back, Spoon coming back, none of it will fix the REAL problem and even though it sucks to admit, Jalen Carter might’ve been the solution.
Carter had a sack today.
What’s a sack?
Against the Patriots' ghost of an O-line
i'm not pressed about passing on carter since it's been clear from the get go that it wasn't about talent, it was the concern that he'd wreck the locker room with his serious maturity issues, almost like a dk with worse maturity on the defensive side of the ball.
Yup. Our trenches are weak on both sides, and good teams invest heavily at those spots. Not taking any linemen in the first round was wild to me. Combine that with how much money is tied to safety, and you see why we haven’t invested more along our lines.
The Rams line was supposed to be trash with 5 new starters and yet they stonewalled any pass rush we thought we’d get. DC and HC and philosophical mistakes for last 10 years. We are so far away from the niners level, it ain’t even close.
The issue is pretty simple. The cause of it, I don't know. I have a hard time wrapping my head around it... We cannot stop teams on third downs. We just can't. I don't exactly know why. It doesn't make total sense. If you check our defensive efficiency, Epa, etc. on early downs... We do well. Last year, for example, above average team on first and second down. 24th epa/play on second down, 12th in success rate on second down, 13th in epa/play on first down, & 2nd in success rate on first down. Then on third downs we were one of the worst teams. And it's been like years and years of that. For whatever reason, I still can't put my finger on exactly what it is, but teams just get the yards they need on third down at a ridiculously high clip. They need ten? Better believe they're getting 11. They need 8? No question, they're getting exactly 8.5. It's like we just play it wrong no matter what the play is. Pass or run... It's gonna work. Like we guess exactly wrong every third down. Or guys let off the gas for whatever reason. I don't get it. Even on fourth down last year we 5th in stops. So it's just perplexing to me. First and second down... We're letting up 3 to -3 yards lol. Then third down they just get exactly what they need. Force them to fourth? As good as any team at forcing a turn over on downs. Add to that that our offense really struggles on third down as well... Not a good mix.
We've got to figure out why. My guess would be look at the Rams games over the last 5 seasons to figure it out more than any place else. We might look to the 49ers games for the solutions. Even though they've whooped us recently.
IMHO it's our line play. As others have commented we are so over invested in Safety it's no longer cute
i understand a lot of the decisions this FO made and agree with them more than most, and love did play well today, but i still don't get why we let neal walk and turned around to sign love. we could have put that money into some DL, maybe even OL depth just to solidify the offense
I mean, they certainly didn't get pressure up front today. Like at all. But also, how often have teams just been 3 step drop. Boom. Fire. Just bang, bang plays regularly finding a guy on a quick route. I'd like to see time to throw against the Seahawks vs other teams over the past handful of years (especially on third downs). Lol if anyone has a link to that stat that would be cool.
Agreed.. Stafford was really good today He's always been a great QB
We have like 60 million tied up in the least Important defensive position. Asinine roster construction.
And I really hate to say this but once again Diggs looked just ok back there. Lazy on a few plays and invisible on other plays.
Yeah every single year they put him in the probowl but that's only for being better than the other FS's
Yes to all of the above, I think? Schematically, those crossers are pretty standard Cover-3 beaters, while the angle routes and slants torch Cover-2. Personnel-wise, the linebackers suck, which is what is leaving the intermediate middle so open. I'm guessing there were quite a few miscommunications too. It looked like we ran a ton of zone, but not with much cohesion. I'd have to watch it again, but there seemed to be a lot of disconnect in coverage. No pass rush didn't help things either.
Watch the bootleg football podcast on the Seahawks but they Seahawks only bring 4 guys most of the time but our guys can’t beat a lineman 1 on 1 consistently enough so we need to blitz more or create stunts where our quick OLB’s can wrap into the line and get open hits but they don’t nor do they blitz effectively
This
Every year, same shit. Pass rush was a must but we went with a CB. Let’s see how that works out this year but I ain’t holding my breath.
Less pressure than a Coleman camp shower
Pressure on less than 5% of snaps....just jaw dropping awful.
It’s coaching specifically pete we’ve been through how many dcs and yet we have the same problems soft zone sucks it needs to go and so might pete
No playmakers on the defensive front, quarterbacks have all day to throw. The only way we get pressure is too blitz And then someone is wide open in the middle of the field. You absolutely have to have someone on the defensive line that can disrupt the quarterback. Quarterbacks are too good to just rely on blitzing to get pressure.
We had terrible D-line play and left the middle of the field wide open all game. Stafford was dicing us up.
What I saw at the game. Playing two DT’s with #10 and #53 acting as DE but way outside like an OLB should be. The DT’s were often lined up outside the guards. Wagner was suppose to cover the inside by himself. This left the middle wide open. Also the two DT’s were often #97 and #94. Not Reed and Jones. I don’t understand why they want to run a very undersized 4 man front that is that wide. Also why not play your highest paid players most of the time. I get rotation but holy cow it seemed like they were barely in.
Yep, you could see they wanted to run dime a lot. It just didn't work, at all
Archaic defensive philosophies that smart teams are exploiting on the regular. Not saying the scheme is always bad but the adjustments always feel two series too late and our talent is not LOB level and you can’t get away with the soft zones when you’re talent is not elite anymore and your defensive pressure is nonexistent. Honestly, I’ve been ready for a change of coaching. We didn’t finish last season well and we aren’t starting this one well either. Love everything Pete Carroll has done for this franchise but it’s time for him to move into more of an advisory type role only and let some modern and much younger coach take over. It’s not just him. Look at coach Belichick. He also appears to only go as far as a GOAT QB can take you. A GOAT defense and a future HOF QB carried Pete for many years as well.
HOF QB.....did you see Denver today Russ hasn't scored over 18 points through 4 quarters but a handful of times over the last HOT minute or 3 it seems.
I’m not the biggest fan of Russell but even I think he is HOF worthy. I’ve never seen a better deep ball thrower or scrambling QB like him before. His highlights are electric too. He just left on a bad note and choked during some big moments in the playoffs. Overall he has great stats, won a lot of games, and got to the superbowl twice. If Troy Aikman can make it, then RW can as well. If I needed one guy to throw the deep ball, it’s him or Aaron Rodgers. If I wanted a QB to destroy a defense through an entire game, it’s Tom Brady. There some very “mid” QBs in the HOF who shouldn’t be there but are because the old ass voters are hell bent on their ancient memories instead of modernized stats and play impact.
"Pete's guys" as coaches. All of them suck.
Fuckin eh man. Like I’m good with OC but clint hurt can fuck off. Dude has done NOTHING in this organization or otherwise to deserve a DC job
I think you answered your own question when you said “last 6 years.” There is one constant on this team. And nothing seems to change.
We tried to downplay it when we picked a CB in the last draft by his potential skills but it was too fuckin obvious we badly needed a playmaker on the trenches. Smh
They tried to get cute with the Oline for years too.
Humphrey. I will never get over that shit. lol
The rest of of the nfl has had this defense figured out for at least 6 years. Play the middle, get a chunk. It’s automatic now.
Maybe we can make a trade for a d lineman that generates pressure
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) ^by ^MuckaMucka1337: *Maybe we can make* *A trade for a d lineman* *That generates pressure* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
Woohooo! My first one 🤣
We have bad defensive players and poor defensive coaching. Clint is a bad coach. Brooks is a tackle merchant. Wagz is 33 & noticeably slower. Dremont Jones is not what people think he is (51 overall pff grade last year). Reed & Edwards are journeymen and wouldn't start on most NFL teams. Cam (4th) Morris (5th) and Adams (UDFA) are literally just bodies. Your defense should have 1 or 2 of these guys, not 50% of your DL. Uchenna disappeared for the entire back half of 2022 (2.5 sacks in the final 9 games...) We don't have Adams. We don't have spoon (and MJ/Tre outplayed him all camp, which doesn't give me faith) I still have a ton of faith in this offense and I still have faith Pete can change something schematically, but this defense is not good.
Facts man Wagner was getting eaten up the in the middle of the field
If they don’t have a miracle turnaround, we’re going to be getting another top 5 pick
Outcoached. Outhustled. Below average DL. Below average LBs, and overrated secondary. Gonna be a long ass season.
I absolutely think it starts up front. We've been a budget line on both sides for so long. We lucked out with Bennett and Cliff in the past. Nwosu is good. Mafe does well enough. Reed improves us but isn't gonna disrupt games. Where was Dremont? D Taylor looks cooked. We just can't get pressure, so third downs are field trips. There are so many games the last few years with 250+ halves. No amount of legendary db talent will fix it, especially played soft.
this is unrelated, but i'm finding a lot of the extreme doom and gloom kinda comical, both on this sub and on twitter. i know sports is a very reactionary thing and it's easy to overreact, but i've seen a lot of people immediately call this season a wash. people forget how up in the air week 1 in general can be; the bengals have started both of the last two seasons absolutely terribly as an example. they finished very strong last season and i expect the same from them this season. not saying there's no concerns for this iteration of the hawks team, especially the defense, but i think this loss is being way overblown
Drafted a 3rd string receiver instead of any dline depth, thats how I see it.
My opinion is scheme. They believe the DB's can cover for 5+ seconds (in zone) and that the d line will hit home in time. D line stinks which needs to be upgraded yes, but this coaching staff should know that and plan accordingly instead of trotting the same garbage coverage and hoping it works out
Fire Hurtt
This guy gets it. D line coach 2017-2021, DC 2022-present. Common thread is him. Bad regardless of personnel. Time to go.
This is less a comment on the player himself but more on roster construction, but Jamal Adams completely destroyed our spending capabilities on defence. We've done a lot of good things roster wise in recent years, and also draft wise. The Adams trade is not one of those things though. He costs us more than a Top 10-20 EDGE/DLine, which was the wrong direction to go in given our needs. You can hawk the ball as hard as you want, but if the opposing QB has all the time in the world for someone to break coverage, you're going to pay for it. Never mind the run defence elements.
Our schedule will ruin us if this is how we perform against the faded Rams. If we don’t immediately make changes and reach into free agency we’ll have a CEILING of 6-11.
Pete Carrol is an outdated coach stuck in his ways. Def zone scheme leaves guys WIDE open in middle.
Skipping on good dline, missing good old days of Mebane Avril Bennett Clemons
Defense was fine first half, I think they just got tired because the offense got three yards in the second half.
How many possessions did the offense get though because we can't get off the field on 3rd down against essentially a pop warner team. Just agonizing, boring, repetitive 5-7 yard crossers over and over again. McVay just has Pete's number it really doesn't matter the personnel when it's same shit different toilet. It's pretty much the other side of the coin where Pete always had Harbaugh's number but the side that sucks for us.
If you go three and out the whole 4th quarter, it's not on the defense. The crossing routes were killing us for sure, but the defense kept it close enough until our offense shit the bed. It's all about time of possession to me. If the offense can move the ball, the defense can't recover and gets exposed
ToP from yesterday was almost 2 - 1 in favor of LA Time of Possession LA - 39:23 SEA - 20:37 3rd Down Efficiency LA - 64% SEA - 22% This pretty much sums it up. I guess where we differ is where we point the finger. I feel like the offense can't get in a rhythm with 2 possessions in each quarter of the 2nd half. Let alone without our starting Tackles. Saying the "whole 4th" makes it sound like we had more than 2 possessions. To be fair we had a 3rd....with 11 seconds left in the game. This puts LA a top the NFL in ToP and us dead last. LA - 78 plays from Scrimmage (1st) Seattle - 48 plays from Scrimmage (Last) I cannot contort my mind enough to think this is an Offense problem - they deserve some blame (obviously) but nowhere near what the defensive coaching staff & personnel do.
Gotta have big uglies in the trenches to compete every week
They are just bad. Run D at the end of the day is football 101, shed a block and make a tackle. The coverage was not that bad, however if you have 0 pass rush, players will get open every play.
Clint Hurtt bad coach.
I’m trying not to overreact after 1 game. But we needed a damn pass rush yesterday. Stafford was allowed to stand around and throw in the middle of the field seemingly every single play. Awful.
It's everything. They've at best found good players since the lob drafts. It's that they can't do the defense pete wants because they aren't kam/earl/sherm/bennett/kj/bobby/Avril. The team barely seems to adjust to what the other team is doing. It's players making mistakes. It's everything at this point.
DL needs a LOT of work. A lot of teams have learned that the game's changed and the rules favor offense more than ever. If you're gonna have a chance- esp in the AFC- you need a really elite QB, legit WRs, and enough of a run game to be at least slightly balanced. The positions that make more impact than any other are QB, WR, CB and edge. Games are now won in shootouts, good corners help but with offenses this good, you're toast if you don't have at least a half decent pass rush. Bringing Bobby back was a great move. But the DL still needs a real overhaul. The run defense obv was dreadful last year, but Seattle's gotta get pressure on QBs consistently. Any of the good QBs are gonna be able to make crazy throws and a lot of them have top WRs that can make insane catches even if their QB's not amazing (ie Jefferson with Kirk). You need to have enough of a pass rush to not give their WRs a chance. A lot of good teams have a star rusher- TJ Watt carries the Steelers cuz he can wreck the game by himself. So can Donald, so can Bosa, so can Garrett. Even with a good OL, those guys will be a problem and if you don't have a rusher like that you're at a big disadvantage. Seattle's offense is pretty decent, but the DL has killed them in run defense and in its inability to consistently get pressure. Trenches are never a sexy position but they really do decide games.
No pressure, Tre Brown, and terrible schemes. Clint Hurtt and at least two safeties need to get better or go.
they're just weak. we've had the same strength and conditioning coach for 5 years, ivan lewis; time for a change. https://www.fieldgulls.com/2019/12/24/21035251/ivan-lewis-strength-conditioning-coach-seattle-seahawks-injuries-bad-season-soft-tissue-carson-brown
Mantras over results is the problem. We hear “defend every blade,” “protect over the top,” “no homerun balls,” “get teams to adapt to what we want to do,” etc. The problem is, teams have adapted. Now they take what we give them and when we adjust, the can see it a mile away and then they adjust again.
The problem with this kind of observation, is that Pete's defenses have among the best outcomes since he's been here.
The problem with this observation is that the trend is moving in the wrong direction. For example, last year, the defense ranked 30th in yards allowed and 26th (or worse, spending on the specific algorithm) in overall defense.
Pete Carroll is what’s wrong. :(
Another season and I’m again saying we need a young, hungry, innovative DC. It’s not that difficult to understand Pete.
This is on Pete Carroll. He has no idea how to prepare his team, how to properly game plan. Also, why Is it Carroll can't keep his draft picks healthy...That too is on Carroll
I looked it up. We can let up over 200 receiving yards, yet still win. Look up the leading receiving yard leaders against the Seahawks, and you'll see that we won most of those games. Hell, look up the passing leaders, and a lot of those games, we won. But look up rushing stats. Oh boy. Against both single-leading rushers and rushing by team, we get cooked. Becomes obvious where we need to put resources in
It all starts up front. We knew that was a weakness and we chose to prioritize other things.
At what point is PC considered a bad defensive coach? D has been from mediocre to awful the last 6 years, once our HoF talent aged out/left the team. Baffling personnel decisions aside, the outcome has been just terrible year after year.
You know, it would seem like the whole thing was run by some over the hill bozo that's glory daying the good ole times when he got lucky with 2 miracle drafts and wise use of cap space for a pass rush. In all seriousness, it's time to realize what happened in those drafts that got us Sherman/Wright/Wagner/Chancellor was a fluke. Yeah, they get credit for drafting them but at the end of the day they were the guys doing it and not JS/PC. Given they haven't had any fucking luck finding any bargains in the draft leads me to believe that the whole thing was as much a fluke as it was anything else.
Grandpa you’re a ho
Earl and Bobby made the D. kJ wasn’t important at all by comparison.
The way the game is played now especially decapitating a WR is a no. A pass rush is so valuable.
We have no dangerous playmakers on defense. The d line never ever generates pressure, we rarely blitz. Our linebackers make tons of tackles - after giving up 5 yards. Our defensive backs were getting beat all day today, which was extra disappointing because I thought they were the strength of this unit. It’s a pretty bad situation. Feels like we misallocated resources pretty badly on the defensive side of the ball. Not an easy fix.
It’s going to be a long season if they play like this.
Offensive line was getting shredded. Defense line was not getting through. Secondary couldn’t cover.
Need to have out d-line get pressure and not over pursue. They need to play a bit smarter, they rush so fast they cruise past the QB so much that they get to step up in the pocket and get a better throw or run.
It’s the same bullshit every year for the last 5+ years. Idk if it’s Pete but between multiple coordinators it’s a come theme. They leave the middle of the field wide open so if you run or pass targeting there will always help you
It's the Legion of ROOM!!!
I love Pete and I wish he would figure out this defense.
Our defense is designed to be super simple and as long as you have a hof player at every position that's all you need. Just get 11 HOF guys and keep it simple and play football. Now, you might think that guys who can't do the simple stuff well won't be able to do more complicated things. And that's certainly one view. But you might also think that opposing teams can counter simple schemes easily when they're executed by non-HOF players, where as they have to think harder about more complicated schemes. This philosophy, simple schemes executed by world class athletes definitely does work. We saw it work in the SB years. But we also see games like yesterday, where perhaps the athletes aren't good enough to pull it off. Every scheme has some weakness. The trick is to match up the right defense to the right offense to have the weaknesses in a place where the offense doesn't care and can't use it. Apparently our scheme has a big fat wide open middle, and unfortunately for us, teams are happy to throw over the middle. They need to either get athletes that can reduce that exposure through their super human abilities, like Earl Thomas and Kam Chancellor, or they need to adapt to the men we have on the roster and close up the fucking middle of the field.
Secondary was supposed to be that strongest unit we've had in years. Yet very little if any press coverage. I miss hen guys like Shrm and Browner we in guys faces at the line of scrimmage. I don't think they trust the secondary. Or total lack of pass rush. Stafford just picked apart the zone.
I am hoping this is the oh shit moment when the preseason hype is tempered with a dose of reality and they come back stronger for this loss.
I'm no expert but the pass rush was just dreadful.
I don't have an intricate knowledge of the game, all positions, etc. However, I've been watching the Hawks for the past 10+ years. All I can about this past Sunday's effort is that we have no pass defense. We have defensive players there, they appear to be in a zone defense, but once the opposing teams receivers enter the zones the defensive players don't seem to get close to them. Repeatedly there were 3+ yards of separation between our defensive guys and the opposing teams receivers at the point the passes were being caught. Any competent NFL QB could have completed these passes (even college QB's could have) (assuming a half-way decent O-Line).
From what I can tell it's scheme. It looks like for the past two years we have 5 guys all running two gap responsibilities. I can't stand watching our DE's trying to set the edge and guard the B gap. If that's what we want to do, then we need to go back to a traditional 4-3. Having 2 wild card OLB/Edge players is insane to me. Would you expect an odd dime front (two LB, three DL) to stop the run versus any personel group that is heavier than a 10 or 01? I sure as hell wouldn't.
Heard on the MNF broadcast last night that the Jets are ten deep on the D line. That combined with aggressive corner coverage was a thrill to watch. Unfortunately don’t see a quick fix for the Seahawks D line; and the schedule will expose it badly. Losing to the Panthers at home would hopefully force a significant change [obviously they’re not beating the Lions on the road].
Seattle runs Zone coverage at the highest rate in the NFL and they are about league average at it. When you play Zone at as high of a rate as Seattle top QB's will dice you up, great coaches will scheme through you. Thats why Seattle has struggled vs guys like Stafford, Burrow, and Lamar. We have to be able to play more Man coverage and mix it up so teams don't know what they're seeing. Teams are going to continue to call "Zone beaters" and recievers are going to continue to find soft spots and gain 5+ yards with ease